By nons3ns on

I know, this is not a nice way, but there is no other:

@The core Developers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_normalization (at least wiki, please)

Lern how to normalize Databases. To see text representations of JSON-Arrays or strings of content type names in Datafields hurts. This totally SUCKS! Not even 1NF!?? NO! There are no explanations for this.
Or code like this:

  if ( -STATEMENT- ) {
    return TRUE;
  } else {
    return FALSE;
  }

The whole system is dirty! No normal developer will produce code like this. In the second coding lesson I got, i've done these mistakes. In the first database design lesson i've got, i've done these mistakes. No, in databases i've never done something like that. But nobody with half a year of coding knowledge would do something like this! NO ONE! The whole core code looks like an three year old have done his first five lines of code.

So, take your whole system and smash it. If you cant even produce code.

Comments

Jaypan’s picture

Jaypan commented

That is inexcusable! I suggest you ask for a refund right away.

nons3ns’s picture

nons3ns commented

I already got one Diem. PHP Symfony. Full OO, and really nice code.

Jaypan’s picture

Jaypan commented

Sounds like you are set then. Not sure what the problem is.

JurriaanRoelofs’s picture

JurriaanRoelofs commented

Maybe you should give Drupal another try now that it's based on Symfony 6 :D (Drupal 10 that is )

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http://www.sooperthemes.com/#-Drupal-Themes

yelvington’s picture

yelvington commented

Feel free to submit a patch, and to make a case for your position.

Drupal development is an open process, and if you're as smart as you think you are and can learn to express yourself without making an ass of yourself, then your contributions will be welcomed. If you're not and/or you can't, then the result is easy to predict.

nons3ns’s picture

nons3ns commented

you're right. I'll. I need some time to compose an adequate text.

I'm not a native speaker, so don't delete this. I will try to turn this to an constructive post.

pamatt’s picture

pamatt commented

I look forward to it!

tryitonce’s picture

tryitonce commented

... I am sure you are a native speaker - may be not of English. No problem.
Interesting comment for someone who joined just a couple of hours ago.
But quick learning to write a more measured and detailed response will make up of any deficit.
Well, there are thousand of sites in Drupal from small to big. There are more than a million nodes on here and more than 500.000 users in 228 countries speaking 182 languages.
So, that would mean a lot of dick heads all around the world meeting for what must be the biggest convention of silly nerds. Possible, sure .... - plausible, hardly ....
So, good luck with your more detailed response and your futre with or without Drupal.
I am sure you comment will not be deleted - Drupal is far too robust for that.

TapSkill’s picture

TapSkill commented

Wow. You know the code you mentioned isn't even necessary for the conversation, right? I mean, you talk of dirty code, yet you can't even create a clean, easy-to-understand, argumentative comment. If nothing else, you're making an ass of yourself.

---
I have created and maintained countless Drupal-powered sites and have made heavy modifications to modules on a site-by-site basis. I am an illustrator, a game developer, and a web developer. I also stream on Twitch in my spare time.

emptyflask’s picture

emptyflask commented

Firstly, I've used Drupal for a while, and on some rather large sites, so I'm not just a new user that didn't realize that Drupal is not Wordpress.

Yes, Drupal does suck. But it doesn't have to.

Too much is stored in the database, and often in very inconvenient ways (such as in serialized arrays). In trying to provide so much flexibility, Drupal ends up making things more difficult than it would be it just encouraged doing things directly in PHP.

Views for instance. I know it's a module, but it might as well be part of Drupal core. Why is there such a complex UI for something that could be written out manually in a few minutes? And why are views then stored in the database (of course, in a serialized array)?

The standard response to this is always, "submit a patch." But that isn't going to affect the direction that Drupal as a whole takes, unless people begin to see these problems for what they are, not just part of the learning curve.

Oh, and while I'm on this soapbox, how about migrating everything to Git, or at least Subversion? I'd be more willing to contribute to the project if I didn't have to deal with CVS and the clunky system of patch files. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Edit: I just discovered http://drupal.org/community-initiatives/git
Good news, but unfortunately it's still read-only...

Jaypan’s picture

Jaypan commented

Drupal currently IS moving to Git.

As for why views isn't part of core - it's for users like me who don't use it. Or I shouldn't say I never use it, but it's pretty rare. I like to keep my sites as streamlined as possible, so I write my own queries/methods.

The whole point of Drupal is giving you a lean option with the possibility of adding on whatever you need.

Michelle’s picture

Michelle
she/her
Primary language English
Location Wisconsin, USA
commented

Views for instance. I know it's a module, but it might as well be part of Drupal core. Why is there such a complex UI for something that could be written out manually in a few minutes? And why are views then stored in the database (of course, in a serialized array)?

If you take the time to learn a bit more about Views, you'll see that views don't need to be stored in the database and there are benefits to not doing so.

You're also contradicting yourself. If you're so good you can do everything Views does manually in just a few minutes, you obviously don't need it and having it in core would bloat your site for no reason.

Michelle

emptyflask’s picture

emptyflask commented

I don't claim to be a Drupal master, and it's been a while (thankfully) since I've had to build a site with it. When I need to create custom models and complex site layouts, I'm generally happier with Rails.

But, since I don't always have the luxury of choosing the CMS/framework, I'd love to know how to use Views without having to read arrays from the database. Do you have a URL to the page in the documentation that mentions how to do this? I haven't been able to find anything on the subject.

Michelle’s picture

Michelle
she/her
Primary language English
Location Wisconsin, USA
commented

This is what I found with a 10 second Google search... All I have time for at the moment. There's probably more out there as well.

http://views-help.doc.logrus.com/help/views/api-default-views

Michelle

gagarine’s picture

gagarine commented

I answer because this post show up often in google.

If you find bad practices in some modules, a good start is to propose a patch in http://drupal.org/project/coder project. So the majority of modules developer will be warn when they made this mistake.

https://interface-network.com - Interface Network is an action and research technology governance agency.

sachbearbeiter’s picture

sachbearbeiter commented

drupal = standstill - modern concepts of programming you can see for example here: www.silverstripe.org

RKS’s picture

RKS commented

Why is Silverstripe better?

PESTO3567’s picture

PESTO3567 commented

I love such comments, this isn't Facebook or Twitter. If you can't elaborate you shouldn't claim anything. There a lot of hype around Silverstripe but its not same mature & stable as Drupal. It doesnt have all the flexibility and power of Drupal yet. Silverstripe is interesting but far far away from Drupal today.

marcopanichi’s picture

marcopanichi commented

I've used drupal for one year and half (three portals, one e-commerce) and now I can say that...

DRUPAL = bugs, slow sites, messy code, primitive and illogical interface

John_B’s picture

John_B commented

DRUPAL = bugs, slow sites, messy code, primitive and illogical interface

bugs: yes, a big problem.

slow sites: only if you think it makes sense to host very powerful complex software on shared hosting. If you run Windows Vista on a 1998 PC it will be slow. Hosting any CMS of this sophistication requires expensive hardware to match.

code: hmmm. a more centrally organized and funded CMS could surely be tidier.

primitive & illogical interface: so-so

Digit Professionals specialising in Drupal, WordPress & CiviCRM support for publishers in non-profit and related sectors

PESTO3567’s picture

PESTO3567 commented

Drupal code isnt messy but some of the modules are... same about bugs. Whenever I got trouble, it was a 3rd party module. Drupal 7 was a huge improvment because cck and imagecache became part of the core. There are still some core modules I found rather useless, one example is the Overlay module - Just disable it and your site will become much faster. I didn't like the new Toolbar and always prefer admin_menu ...but since i used it more its ok.

I've noticed mostly european peoples complain about Drupal - seems Joomla & Typo3 are more popular here. Anyway, each of this CMS has his weak & strong points. I love Drupal and never liked Joomla.

gagarine’s picture

gagarine commented

So what do you using now?

https://interface-network.com - Interface Network is an action and research technology governance agency.

Anonymous’s picture

Anonymous (not verified) commented

Isn't Drupal 8 actually considering to integrate with Symfony 2? I've heard rumours.

Michelle’s picture

Michelle
she/her
Primary language English
Location Wisconsin, USA
commented

There's a lot of talk about it in the WSCCI initiative.

Michelle

bonn’s picture

bonn commented

Well, at least folks at whitehouse.gov are using Drupal :D
so Drupal is definitely NOT sucks.