Update mailing list descriptions

I think we should paint the titanic red! ;)

Seriously though I was rebuked last month for telling people that it wasnt the purpose of the list and i realized that they were right when they said that there isnt really a purpose to, or traffic on the list anymore. While i *loved* the devel list when i got started in drupal 5 years ago and would like our core conversations to take place in an open forum that is less time sensitive than skype and irc it just doesnt happen that way anymore and i don't see it changing anytime soon.

I don't wan to hijack your issue but i think its related that maybe it isn't the description but the purpose/existence of the devel list that needs revisiting.

Honestly I think the other way seems to make more sense though. I just looked at the archives for this year and it appears to be that the development@ list is used more for code for custom modules, etc. now than core. I would venture to guess somewhere in the neighborhood of 90%-10% and that is probably conservative. I've been on the list since its infancy and I have noticed this migration for the past couple of years. Maybe it's time to say Drupal Core is in IRC, or even start a core-development@ list.

Is the reason people don't use the devel@ list because of the non-core posts on there, or is it just that people prefer IRC/Skype?

If it's the former, then fixing the description (and/or the name of the list) is a good idea; if it's the latter, what's the point in creating a core-development-only list if no-one is going to use it?

That no single "elsewhere" is a big problem - not for just devel, but also for support. Hopefully if the email integration with G.D.O. ever gets done, then that can be used for these items. For quick and easy discussion, I always prefer IRC, but that is hard to follow and the archiving isn't that great. That and discussions do have a tendency to muddle together.

For what it's worth...

When my CVS account was approved, I got a list of developer-specific links (code styles, license policies, etc). Smack dab in the middle of them was a link to the Mailing Lists page.

Nowhere on that page - nor anywhere else, for that matter - is it even suggested that the development list is for developing Drupal core only. Furthermore, there is no mailing list specific to third-party module creation and code support. In fact, that's exactly why I signed up for the development list in the first place.

So whenever a mod on that list says "don't post those questions here," it seems like they're punishing module coders for doing exactly what you told them to do.

I personally have no objection to forcing the development list to be core-only, but if you do that, you absolutely must set up a separate mailing list for third-party coding questions. Those sorts of questions absolutely should not be in with the general "support" list.

I, also, joined the development list because I thought it was for discussing module development and not just core development. Perhaps it would be better to create a core-development list and a module-development list? Either one could be the current list renamed, really.

In line with all of the opinions above I'm in favor of repurposing/opening the devel list to include contrib module development and implementation issues/questions. This would breathe new life into the list and would be preferable over starting a new list and having to publicize it. The current list gets very little traffic anymore and it is a small expansion of the definition with hopefully beneficial outcomes.

People who object to the new purpose can unsubscribe of course and I'd be happy to send out a message explaining the change and providing a link to unsubscribe.

I've updated the text at http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/development

I've inserted "core" after Drupal which is what was meant all the time.

Probably should update http://drupal.org/mailing-lists since I suspect that is where many users find the mailing lists.

I want to echo what Earnie said in #7. If you go to the mailman page for support, this is what you see:

Welcome to the Drupal support list. If you need help with getting Drupal up and running this is the list for you.

http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/support

So essentially there isn't a list right now where someone can go and ask "hey - I want to do this, what hook should I use?", or "why isn't my custom menu callback firing?".

Over the years, I have seen a lot of contrib modules transpire out of questions from the devel list. People trying to get a new feature in or change something in Drupal via a module. They ask questions about how to go about it on devel, the questions get answered and then that person publishes their module on D.O. It's really been a valuable resource in that sense and would be nice to either re-purpose devel towards that or create an entirely new list (probably the better solution) strictly for people doing custom modules or figuring out coding stuff on the contrib side. I'm thinking something more along the lines of the wp-hackers list Wordpress has, though I always hated that name!

I committed #12. It will be deployed this week.

If there is even more debate, reopen and move back to the Drupal.org infrastructure project.

First, note that the Support page has not been updated.

Frankly, I don't think it should be. The current purpose of that list is for people who "have trouble getting Drupal up and running." That is a totally different demographic than module developers - as a module developer, I don't want to sign up for a list where 90% of the emails will be about setting up an FTP client, or configuring Apache, or whatever.

I've you're going to re-repurpose the developer list to be core only, then you must make a separate mailing list for Drupal module developers. Until that happens, I would suggest that you not send module development questions to any of the current mailing lists. Instead, we should use the forums (which are set up in a far more logical fashion than the mailing lists):
Module Development and Code Questions

I would open an issue to request a separate mailing list, but frankly, I have no idea where to file the issue.

Cross-linking #1236280: We need a central place for core contributors broadcast their business, which suggests to add a new list for core only.

a. I think contrib is as important to drupal just like extensions is to firefox, without them it's just a freaking monster that crave for 3 Gigs of RAM (or was it per firefox's processes).
b. With the improvements of cache in D7, views becomes inseparable from core.
c. I get a notion that we pushed part of core to contrib to give it a room to breath and evolve, i'm guessing that these modules is tightly coupled with the progress of core.

I hope we're not saying that core means drupal-core + views + whatever modules the core guys and girlz maintained.

I'm in for a separate core-dev-mailing-list, most of the devs already felt at home in development.

fireh.

There's been a metric ton of discussion about the development of Drupal Core in the past month or so. Precisely zero of that has hit the development list. Whether or not you think there's room for both a basic support list for "how do I show all articles by an author" and a more advanced one for "I have a problem with my handler in Views that interacts with my custom module that uses MongoDB" etc, it's seems that as things stand, the development list is a lost cause.

Good. I've read all the other and it all seems sensible to me.

Now, please can we have the description of the develop list corrected at http://drupal.org/mailing-lists

When I joined, it didn't say "core," and now that core developers have agreed to use other means, this list is no longer for core developers, so now it should not say core.
Also, the description at http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/ needs to be cleaned up, "A list for whover" is way too vague.

There is also a link to http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/developer-support (but from where I don't know) that is wrong.