Hi,

For the second time in the past year, a site admin has emailed me on my reasons for why I voted the way I did in a particular thread. I had my reasons for voting the way I did (which I had not mentioned to *anyone*) and nobody should be able to tell how I voted and why (it is up to me to step and say whatever I need to say); to then have a site admin confront me on it felt like a violation of privacy. If the emails need to be included in this thread, then I will do so. Or let me know next steps to rectify this issue since voting obviously provides no level of privacy under such circumstances.

Comments

greggles’s picture

I do expect (at least right now) that the voter's identity will be kept private. Maybe send the emails just to me (or to Josh Koenig and me) so we can discuss what to do?

Thanks.

sreynen’s picture

Related: #178776: Create a privacy policy for drupal.org. Most recent proposal there covers subdomains like g.d.o.

btmash’s picture

Thank you, @greggles. I've emailed you the set of dialogue that occurred between me and the admin.

christefano’s picture

I'm the admin that contacted BTMash. I contacted him because I didn't want the person who had been downvoted to wake up this morning to find that his first contribution on groups.drupal.org (while at his first Drupal meetup) had been downvoted. Hopefully this provides some background and explains where I'm coming from.

Regarding the issue of implied expectations of privacy, voting on groups.drupal.org is not anonymous so long as downvoting is the tool used to identify spam (or "questionable comments", as the view is called). I came across the downvote because I use that view to find spammy comments, not because I go around looking up people's voting behavior.

On a technical level, a simple fix to the privacy issue might be to remove the recent voter column from the Questionable Comments view. Long term, I'd like to see downvoting removed and replaced with a few flags. People who repeatedly flag posts in a retaliatory manner should have their flagging abilities suspended.

greggles’s picture

Title: Remove voting » Determine how identity should be used with votes

That privacy issue is fixed, but we still have a bit of a policy question because there are users who can look up votes.

IMO we should either state that votes are to be private and that if an admin happens upon the information they should not discuss it with others or we should make them public. I could go either way, personally. If we make all votes public I think we could only do that from the point of the decision forward - i.e. old votes would need to be hidden from the general public somehow.

avpaderno’s picture

I would say that looking at the votes for finding spam is fine, but sending an email to somebody who down-voted a post is not fine.

The information about who down-voted should be considered as information used strictly for the purpose of maintaining the site.
That is similar to what should be valid for the email addresses. The fact I can see the emails set in the user accounts doesn't authorize me to send whatever email I want to the users; I should send emails only for what is strictly concerning the activity of Drupal.org site maintainer.

btmash’s picture

Status: Fixed » Active

What @kiamlaluno said is how I feel as well. I've worked on websites with very heavy moderation and the users are informed very early on on what reasons they will be personally contacted for (for awards, for warnings, reason for getting banned). The interface provided to them for social activities also dictates its purpose (and coupled with the appropriate text make a user think on what their action will be). In this scenario, I think it is unclear to regular user on what voting means and it was also unclear under what circumstances I should expect to be contacted by a site maintainer.

From my perspective as a non-editor / non-admin / non maintainer and because of the way the voting options are presented to the user, it simply looks like a 'I like this' or 'I don't like this'. Even the language used is 'vote up' and 'vote down', not implying to end user that it is for spam moderation purposes - http://groups.drupal.org/node/147089 specifically states to create an issue when spam is involved. When I have really disagreed with a comment, I have used downvoting (and in most cases explained in a followup comment my disagreement) in the past. And it is only recently that I found out it is used for other purposes.

Personally, I'm ok with voting privacy going either way. A policy on when users can be contacted and why would go a long way. Though generally, I have seen voting actions to be relatively anonymous (for obvious reasons; no one likes being called out on being the sore thumb). I have observed sites that strictly use 'vote up' or 'like' to sometimes display the list of people that liked it but that is the extent of it.

Regarding actions to perform, it would be great if the user can have an expectation of what a particular action means. A 'flag' action (like from flag) is much clearer in explaining to a user that something is being marked as being spammy or otherwise than 'vote down' (heck, even just add that language to the vote down so we rethink if the vote should be made or not).

UPDATE: I've had over 2 months to think through this issue and I'm actually taking back what I had said about being ok with voting privacy going either way. I have continued feeling uneasy about the whole situation and, in essence, it felt like I had been harassed. Just because a user has the ability to see or do something does not make it right (see my earlier point about feeling harassed - there are laws against it in a number of workplaces now; there weren't before but that still didn't make it right). And @greggles: thank you. I really appreciate what you have done to try and bring a resolution to this.

greggles’s picture

Status: Active » Fixed

Voter data is private for now.

Christefano can no longer read it.

Hopefully other admins will not abuse their access to that data.

Status: Active » Closed (fixed)

Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.

Anonymous’s picture

Issue summary: View changes

More coherent.