hello hello,

at the moment I must say that I am quite frustrated about the possibilities - or actually the not really existing possibilities of handling a taxonomy together with a menu.. I just spent another weekend on trying out the various options - but could not find one single way to do what I want..!

I did this research already twice - half a year ago and about one year ago - posted in various threads, read a large number of topics, how-to's, hacks, work-arounds etc.. but after all I must say that the situation still seems to be the same - or is it just me..? Well.. I just don't like the idea of using 'snippets' or 'hacks' or 'htacces' anyways - I am just -still- dreaming of a module that could do the trick, which is after my opinion actually quite a common trick / quite a common problem..

..anyways - here's what I'm dreaming of:

I want to have the taxonomy terms of a selected vocabulary in the menu tree - or at least in block - behaving just the way I would expect a 'good' menu tree to behave: clicking on a term should expand that term IF it has sub-terms to show, clicking on a different term should make the other terms 'collapse', and of course the urls should point to the urls pathauto generated.

maybe I'll shortly try to draw a picture of what I'm dreaming of:


// 1 and 2 have something 'more' to show, 3 has not
// nothing is clicked, nothing is selected:

----------------

> Term1
> Term2
o Term3

----------------

// Term1 is selected:

v Term1
  > SubTerm1
  o SubTerm2
  o SubTerm3
> Term2
o Term3

----------------

..I think that's enough..:]

well - and here's what modules I tried - and a short explanation on what keeps me from using that module:

• CATEGORY
a very promissing candidate, the menus behave exactly like I want them to.. Since I can convert content types to taxonomy terms pathauto handles the urls perfectly well. The only downer: it is huge, rather complex, and there are some complaints that once you want to 'go back' you might loose your taxonomies - or actually even the taxonomy module might loose its functionality..!!?
http://drupal.org/node/147512
Scary..!
Plus I read that some people are complaining about growing slowness - the more categories and pages the slower the site becomes.. Something I don't really want to risk..
I actually used category for this one project until now - but now I'm building the whole project up once again, want to throw stuff that I don't need over board - and while doing this I thought there has to be a more slim solution to my taxo-menu-problem..? ..hm..

• taxonomy_menu
basically a very slim and quick and easy candidate - only the urls are not really acceptable. I just can't use them. And I also don't want to use ans 301-redirects just to get those urls 'look nice'
see also:
'Using pathauto with menu paths'
`-> http://drupal.org/node/41450
'Has anyone managed to alias taxonomy_menu?'
`-> http://drupal.org/node/41476
'Lowell's pathauto hack for drupal 5'
`-> http://drupal.org/node/121513

• taxonomy context
also a very promising module - but kind of 'stupid' behaviour of the menu: I don't want to list all the nodes under each cat-term - and I especially don't want the menu terms to look AS IF there was something to show - if there is actually nothing to show.. - ..ahm - again: EVERY term seems to be 'expandable', none of them is shown as a css-leaf - even if there is nothing to expand. Either I'll have to hack it, or I'll have to make all the three little pictures 'expanded' collapsed' and 'leaf' look the same - or I just forget about this little helper..

• taxonomy dhtml
on the description page is says 'this module needs a new maintainer' - and that was also my first impression about this module. As far as I can see the menus are not collapsable - and then it also seems to use this 'hirarchical' paths instead of taxonomy's 'regular' paths.. Maybe if it had a new maintainer and maybe if taxonomy_dhtml and taxonomy_menu grew together it/they could become a very flexible and yet slim and fast solution..? ..hmm..

• SiteMenu
great idea - but the menu items are not collapsable..?! Sorry, but that's not really usable for large taxonomies.. - ..or is it..?

• directory
there seems to be some hope in that module - I mean hope for solving 'my' problem - although there's currently no 'mini-directory'-blocks yet and the urls again have their very own structure - but maybe sooner or later this could be a way out..? ..hmm..
here's two promising issues:
http://drupal.org/node/161056
http://drupal.org/node/148097

• PHP/DIY
I tried some snippets - first of all the 'book like navigation' seems to be promising. I'll probably (have to) go back to that if I can't find any other way 'out'..
http://drupal.org/node/24989
Maybe this could be a starting point - although at this point it seems to be only good for 'flat' taxonomy trees - ergh - comon! ..I need a tree - not a lawn..!

Well - now what..?

Is there a way out..? Has anybody found a solution to this..? Is anybody willing to mix all the best parts of the modules mentioned above - and make a very basic / nice taxonomy-menu-module..? Or will this be one of the problems that will never get solved..? I'm curious about anything - your opinions, your suggestions, pointer, cheer-upps, even 'snippets' and/or 'hacks' would be warmly welcomed.. - ..if they 'do the job'....:]

greetings, till..

Comments

momper’s picture

hello

tille - thank you for the listing ...

i'm in the same situation and for every new project i have to do a research again ...

are there new solutions or modules outsite?

the ideal modul for taxonomy-listings:

- shown as block
- you can choose if the items are expandable or not
- you can choose to show a term count or not
- you can choose if blank categories are shown or not
- url-aliasing is possible by pathauto (!!!!)
- caching in a way (?)
- efficient html output
- themable functions (?)

- i don't know how complicate this is, but often its very important: you can define the depth ...
example:
i have a structuring category in the first level - i don't want to show it ...
i have a lot of categories on the deepest level - i don't want to show them ...

- and another maybe complicate thing, because of the taxonomy principles (which one is the primary term etc.):
active tax-menu-item if you are in the node-level
example:
you select one taxonomy menu item -> you get a teaser-list of associated nodes -> you go into the detail-mode of one node -> the menu item is still active ... an old principle of good usability ...

- ... more suggestions???

greetings momper

manne35’s picture

Hello,
...the problem that pathauto doesn t work together with one kind of menu module using taxonomy is, why i am waiting the last 10 months to use drupal on my main site.
site_menu works together,... but it makes only 1 block for all taxonomies and the menu items are open always.
For me it s a big break to use effectively drupal.
Although i think that drupal is a great cms and drupal is one piece of the future of the internet.
I say thanky for all who worked so much for it.
But a menu is still important for a website. And urls have to make sense in these days also.
Best regards for all friends of drupal.
manne

http://www.edelsteine.de
http://www.bernstein-schmuck.de

druvision’s picture

is it close to the needs of your bounty? because it works:

As a temporary solution, I've written a module which uses custom_url_rewrite to change all taxonomy_menu URLs to the correct taxonomy/term/... form, and works with pathauto URLs.

This works great on the top nice_menus on my site, http://levavie.com

More info: http://drupal.org/node/192493#comment-633741

Amnon
-
Professional: Drupal Israel | Drupal Development & Consulting | Effective Hosting Strategies | בניית אתרים
Personal: Hitech Dolphin: Regain Simple Joy :)

tanoshimi’s picture

Not that it really helps, but I appreciate your write-up and just thought I'd lend my support to your frustration!

I have been through the same review of various similar looking taxonomy-menuey modules, but with an added dimension - since the main content on my site is in the form of book pages, I also have the option to use the book navigation menu - which works very nicely for what it does, is part of core (and so well supported), provides nice printer-friendly pages etc., but of course only navigates through the book pages.

Suppose I have a book page which is about vitamins, which is a child of the book page about food - then the book navigation block very clearly displays the current node location, it's parents and siblings etc.
However, suppose I also have another content type, such as a quiz, which is also about vitamins, or a poll about vitamins, and I want that to display those in a block on the side of the book page about vitamins...
(exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to do with taxonomy_menu, if it supported theming the output via views/panels)
In order to do this I have had to create a hierarchical taxonomy to tag those other content types which mirrors my book hierarchy - so my vitamins book page (tagged with the 'vitamin' taxonomy term) is a child of the food book page (tagged with the 'food' term, which is the parent of the 'vitamin' taxonomy term). Then I make my blocks to show polls/quizzes etc. based on views which filter on the taxonomy term of the main book node. Seems totally redundant to have to maintain two identical hierarchies for the book pages and the taxonomy!

Anyway, I'm not going to complain, because in my whole experience of Drupal so far, this is the only time I've found it lacking - in general, it is a rock-solid, very nice to develop in, (free!), and very well-supported tool. If only I had a bit more time/skill, I would fix this myself...

bakr’s picture

I am new to drupal, but it has been a month since I have been reading and digesting the concepts of CMS and especially taxonomy, and I was convinced..

When I jumped into the wagon, I have started a new website (localhosted) that is around a book(Arabic):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1879708167/ref=cm_cr_dp_orig_subj (recent english translation of the book)

My TOC consists of 1304 table rows (heirachical indeed.)

To this point, I have directly ported this TOC into drupal backend mysql tables as follows: (Fresh Drupal 5 Site)

1) Create a proper vocabulary entry and assign different node types(Book, Page .etc.) [I disabled free tagging for this vocabulary which is actually the book name => as this would disturb the toc by just adding extra term_data..] ... so ... the TOC is mirrored statically into Taxonomy. at least for that specifc vocabulary.
2) Inserted the term_data entries
3) Insert the corresponding term_heirarchy properly

Every thing is perfect, also beer in mind that I have switched-off the free tagging for the book

After having to rearrange things and having to repeat the same steps above... (and testing adding extra terms from drupal interface) => I came with some errors of duplicate keys...after researching,, it was that old system methodology of relying on the sequences table, also i was not fogetting to reset the InnoDB autoincrement values for each run.

I knew Drupal 6 is not any more relying on table locking and has depreciated the "sequences table" .... that was a breeze for me, so I have installed drupal 6b3 fresh on my latest wamp build.

Well, yes, I could create a new public vocabulary and allow users to add their tags here.(to work as cross tagging while not harming my first vocabulary structure - which is the actual book' TOC)

very neat...

Now,

I am confronted with almost the same issues:

1) I have huge list of terms (thing are yet going to increase when I add more book) (expect 5000+ terms)
==> Do I have every time I derive an explanation page or comment for that certain book page, do I have to scroll down through 5000 terms from the select combo....(WOW, NO)
2) Do I have to maintain a book herachy to be aligned with the Taxonomy TOC (I could do this with a script, that is not the techincal problem), besides the whole book is digitzed already 3000+ pages., I am not bothering to retype, but I have my links to every page already in place.

By creating the drupal book-node pages, I would be putting the http link to the actual physicall page into every book-node page,

My whole intention of this project is to allow me to picture out my understandings and jot them down along with adding some more diagrams and mind-maps that help the reading researcher.

I am going to use the commenting feature for personal commenting and not public commenting (readonly)

I am creating an online reference of personal notes (text + graphical diagrams), that is readable to the visitors,

____________________________________________

The solution I envision at least should have the following features:

* Implement heirachical selects to facilitate fetching deep heirachical terms. (then pass the selcted term to an aggregate text area, or maybe drag and drop)
* Have a themed view of my taxonomies... i.e. for every term that I have created any derived content(at least one), I want a small icon appear next to that term indicating it has been consumed or described (at least once)
* have a module which zooms into the tree branch of my existing term heirarchy, and allows me to step up or drill to the next branch ==> depending on exsting context as a reference.
* have a module which exports my selected taxonomy vocabularies and the associated terms to an XML ALONG WITH THIER EVER ASSOCIATD NODES - Ahem, for mobility, (even changing ID's where possible as far as the referencial integrity is maintained.)

That was a starter.

I am a Lasso programmer (lassosoft.com) not a php guy, Otherwise I would have contributed these modules, I know the above is simple to implement, Guru phper's, help!

I can see that so many poeple out there have good ideas, but not able to implement them,
Also being open source, other fewer elite who are good at drupal API are under pressure to serve others,.

All the best wishes to the drupal community and all those who helped shape this cool tool.

Sophia’s picture

Just what I am looking for as well... subscribing.

Quint’s picture

thanks, interesting thread

bakr’s picture

Backgorund:
It is very difficult to make multiple selections on big heirachical term branches/trees which span thousands of related terms,
e.g. we loose site easily of what is selected and what is not, also one mistake could be very costly.

Proposed feature 1
* enable drag&drop of terms into an optional selection basket/tray/list
* Also, create a tiny trash icon, where we can drop non-required term(s)

Proposed Feature 2
Will, for simplicity and to avoid confusion to users, this feature can be implemented as a separate co-module which is mapped to its own unique content-block apart.

It is around two features which work with each other in synergy:
1) User is able to define query criteria, or selection rules OR directly utilize the rules of the views module which are assumed to be predifined there in the views db-schema.
2) Display the tree of terms in a nice visual way somehow, but, the terms which are part of reference view to be highlited in different color or background-color, as an indication that this very term has already been designiated somewhere in the website (that depened of the views filter which is preset especially by the user for this purpose.)

Usage Scenario

- Let us suppose that I have 3000+ taxonomy terms under one/several vocabularies...
- These 3000+ are mirroring a book of Bible / Quran / Physics / Chemistry / Encyclopedia ...etc... just think of researchers point of view. (that Vocabulary is not allowing free tagging)(Must Select one)
- The Taxonomy is made to be a mirror of the Table of Contents for any of the above references.
- I am a member of a team/class, and we are assigned a project where we have to collaboratively describe and summarize any of the above volumes.
- Plan is that for every taxonomy (TOC Node) which exists as a term, we are asked to create a matching book page (mirroring the same hiearachy in terms of parent/child as in the hiearachy of the relevent taxonoy terms - as we said earlier)
- Accondingly, we are going to tag that book-page with that relevant taxonomy term as a must. (essential tag)
- Additionaly, we are having other special vocabuly which serve as a different name space for free tagging (optional tags), i.e. that vocabulary is configered to allow free tagging.
- So far, things look nice, neet, organized, but we miss one more important element.......................
- At this level, we might be able to install the views module and then create a filter that would display the list of the pages which belong to book X, ...
- ... and since we know that every page which was created in that book must have been at least on term from our essential TOC vocabulry; then we can take the same query result as an array which hold the ids if the fetched taxonomy terms and then pass that array to the custom module as mentioned above to cater for the masking/highligting functionality which is all about.

.............. We wanted that feautre - which is all about here - To be able to look into that custom block, and by reazling which taxonomy terms are highlighted; the whole working group knows how much progress is being done, and the terms which are NOT hightligted tell us that we still need to work on summarazing these terms into the new relavent book pages/blogs/polls/..etc.

I hope this is clear enough to communicate the need of having to be able to take control of volumteric taxonomy implementaitons.

lebisol’s picture

Thank you...thank you...thank you...tille for posting this.
For weeks now I have been spining in circles how to organize content in anything meaningfull.
Here is what I have experienced:
1. Using taxonomy to and term "category" is Compleatly misleading with repspect to:
-either from content submission
-or menu/navigation building
-or loss of breadrumbs
-displaying tags in list view
-no dynamic/relationships driven vocabluaries/terms
...
So it seems that taxonomy or "categories" should really be named and treated as "free-tags/keywords" while using content types
Book(main cat)
-Page(sub cat)
--Story(sub sub cat)
to achive any kind of content hierarchy where only certain profile Roles have access to add "categories/books" and drilled down with rights...while giving some 'freedom' with perhaps 1 vocabulary of free terms/tagging which is NOT used as a main navigation of content or quick "jump" to conent.

2. Trying to "mirror" books and categories just seem to double the confusion to users submitting the content not to mention nightmare of replicating and trying to match
book = vaocab
page = vocab-parent term
story = vocab-parent term-child term
makes for one horrid term listing and need to uniqly name child terms.....so much for 1:M relationships based on tag (name-NOT ID)

Unfortuanately this fails when content type is diff. (eg. 'image' field...what is a child of this content type??? ).

Imho,...if core things need to be hacked than what is point...

Any ideas (that don't involve maintanance of 20-30 modules) of basic content structuring please share your thoughts or should we call Drupal one fun excercise and look elsewhere? (this is really my despreation not hate talking)

Thanks for the time and listeing!

giorgio79’s picture

Thanks for this comment.

I just installed Drupal a couple days ago, and just got down to trying to build some menu structure.

I have to say that Drupal's menu system is the lamest and most un user friendly menu system I have ever seen.

Primary links, secondary links, navigation, taxonomy, categories, terms, nodes, menus, parent items...

BArrrrrfffff

Give me a break.

I might go back to Joomla after this mess

Anonymous’s picture

I can't believe the complexity of doing something as simple as organizing content! It seems like I have to customize the code in order to do what obviously others want also. I just want a simple step-by-step instruction on how to develope a menu for my content. Do I create the content first? To me it makes more sense to create the menu system THEN drop the content into the categories I developed.

Can anyone out there please provide the simplest solution to creating a main menu, and then have submenus that appear when each main menu link is clicked? Anyone?

Sonia Graphics
using - Drupal 6

bakr’s picture

Besides the "mirroring" which I have mentioned earlier, imagine if by a flip of drag, what would happen to the order...

it is a mess, the mechanism to sort taxonomy is somewhat lagging.

summit’s picture

Subscribing,

I am wanting to be able to change "taxonomy/term" from the taxonomy lists and change this to any value I like related to the depth of the term.
So
- on Depth 1 : instead of "taxonomy/term" an own panel with arguments, say "in"
So
- on Depth 2 : instead of "taxonomy/term" an own panel with arguments, say "in-region"
So
- on Depth 3 : instead of "taxonomy/term" an own panel with arguments, say "in_place"

This way a somewhat hierarchical website, with hierarchical menu through Taxonomy context blocks are shown.
is this doable please?

Greetings,
Martijn