Come together with the global Drupal community in Rotterdam, 28 Sept – 1 Oct 2026. Sessions, contribution, connection, and Early Bird savings until 8 June.
By lekei on
I GIVE UP! Ok I am breaking down and asking for help.
Problem is that once I got it installed (not an easy task... the installation doesn't set up the database correctly), I found that the documentation is all written in self-referential jargon and is quite unintellegible to people familiar with other systems, without some sort of "Rosetta Stone".
Is there a Drupal lexicon? A Drupal to English dictionary?
I have just installed Drupal after going over dozens of content management solutions, none of which seem quite right. Drupal has no webmail or calendar but seems extensible enough.
If I can't figure out what the heck a Taxanomy is, how do I explain it to a client (It's hard enough to explain to clients the difference between a web page and email)?
Where do I get one of these Taxanomies, how do I put one on the front page and can I get one in blue in a size 8? I want to put blocks on the front page but they only go into sidebars. How do I put stuff in the middle?
Maybe Drupal is the wrong choice, since blogging is not a requirement, or even that desireable.
I was looking for a community portal system that can put object blocks onto pages, agregate news stories and links, email, group and personal calendars, let users check their email and sign up for webmail if they don't have an account. Forums would be nice. Colaborative scriptwriting would be great.
With drupal I can't even figure out how to get rid of the "Welcome to drupal".
Comments
taxonomy = categories,
taxonomy = categories,
It is one of those words that is ' categorically ' never gets used in anything other than text books and by eggheads during a lecture who find using the same word more than once a visible sign of low I:Q.
node = content
content of any type that is contained by an indexed reference. So 1 2 and three would be nodes that may contain any type of media. Before my Drupal experience I hadd only used this word in reference to computers or networking. But it works fine in this context also.
Her's the official glossary http://drupal.org/node/937
---------------------------
www.hivemindz.com (running PHP5)
www.fireorb.org (documentation and hacks)
__________________________
Carl McDade
Information Technology Consult
Team Macromedia
Handbook
Click the Handbook tab in the upper right.
Administrators Guide -left side
First item Drupal Terminology (http://drupal.org/node/937)
There is a lack of configuration guides as there is also a lack of 'copious spare time' to write them. Sign up to Drupal docs list. Document what you feel there is a lack of and 'Create content' book page. Notify docs list to check and approve. :) Anyone can contribute.
On your list, personal calenders do not exist that I know of but there is work being done on the events module(calender). I am unsure if this is one of the features they are working towards. You would have to elaborate more on the email. Depending on the module selection, some email stuff can be done, but there is not currently any integration with a POP client (squirrel mail).
As to the welcome message.
1. Type content (page, story, blog) and make sure Promote to front page is checked.
2. Create content (page, story, blog) Go to the administor \ settings item, scroll down and replace node with node/# of page you created.
-sp
---------
Test site...always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
glossary
what you are asking for is a glossary. and every drupal sitre ships with one. see the bottom of your 'admin/help' page. in other words, just click on admin => help. it is at the bottom.
feel free to contribute to make this glossary better, and the help texts in general.
Taxonomy and Welcome
The help on "administer - categories" pretty much says it all:
As far as the welcome message goes: have you tried reading it? It starts with:
--
If you have a problem, please search before posting a question.
Where do I get one of these
Unfortunately, there is currently no way to list your site's categories on the front page (without hacking the PHP behind Drupal, hard coding it in your theme, etc). However, you can list them in a block on the side, using things such as taxnomy_context and taxonomy_menu, and you can list them on separate pages using taxonomy_html or taxonomy_dhtml (you can then set these pages to be your site's front page, if you wish).
At the moment, blocks can only go on the left or right side of the page. Hopefully, they will also someday be able to be put at the top or bottom, or at any theme-defined point within the page itself. But I think this is a long way off.
Quite honestly, I think Drupal is the wrong choice for you, from what I can tell by looking at your needs. Drupal is one of the weaker systems when it comes to "putting object blocks onto pages" - CMSes such as Mambo, PostNuke, e107, and Xoops are all better suited to this (although none of them are anywhere near as flexible or as well-written as Drupal). They will also give you the webmail and calendar functionality that Drupal is currently lacking.
Jeremy Epstein - GreenAsh
Jeremy Epstein - GreenAsh
There is a way...
Hi Jaza,
Just wanted to point out that there is a way you can put your Taxonomy on the main page. Its a bit of a round about way but here's how it goes:
1. Go to administer -> settings
2. In the 'Default front page' tyep article/taxonomy_node
Where taxonomy_node can be any node from your existing taxonomy. Note: you need the article.module enable for this to work.
I know this is crude but if push comes to shove... this is the way.
hpk a.k.a. Vikram
[De-centralizing the central issues]
National Institute of Design, India
You could look it up ...
Just be thankful they called it taxonomy and not ontology.
Perfect example
This is yet another one of those inquiries that gets you dissed for not being knowledgable. Fortunately the person asking has taken precautions and sits behinds a mask of irony and false stupidity. It protects against the sarcasms thrown at him.
OK - so Drupal is not for beginners. Or rather - Drupal has such powerful features and modules that you'll need a university degree to grasp the reach of some of them, and even the idea behind them.
So how does Drupal make it easier on the "Joe Average" guy who happens to want a good system and is tempted by this Drupal system?
There are a number of ways - Handbook, Discussion Fora, Help system....
Also the developers are working to actually make the system easier on the new administrator - reorganization of the administration system, better design templating, usability improvements......
I think Drupal is going very much in the right direction.
So why do people keep asking those "stu..." questions? And why do people keep answering in that "arroga.." way?
Because the developers are actually working hard to improve these things that make Drupal less than perfect for the newcomer - but the newcomers don't know that, and they don't know where to begin when looking for answers, and they don't want to spend hours reading, looking etc.
You could post a big sign saying: "If you don't plan on spending at least two hours of reading before installing this system - don't even bother to download!" - or even put that message in the beginning of the upcoming installer?
One could also say:
"The thing is - Content Management and Community system administration is NOT simple. There are things you need to know to make things work right. The information is right there in front of your eyes - and yet you don't see it. Your approach to the whole thing lacks enthusiasm. If you expect the whole thing to be preconfigured with a "demo site" with "demo content" like other systems do - find another system."
I think one could also say:
"We aknowledge your pain and frustration, and realize that some of it origins with the less than adequate design of Drupal, for which we apologize (just barely). Please be patient and please consider spending some time reading. Your questions are reasonable, and fortunately the answers are there already. If you decide to RTFM - you will discover how wonderful a system Drupal really is, and you will learn to love it - including some of the stuff you don't understand right now. Look at it this way: You're about to embark on a beautiful journey into the dark realm of content management and online community system management. You will be rewarded with knowledge and understanding, and your approach to the whole thing will change - as you realize that there is more than one way to deal with content and organization on the web. Happy reading and welcome new friend..."
:-)
Dropping in from Langemarks Cafe.
fora
Heh, was your use of the word 'fora' ironic?
One of the first things my dad for a drupal site I'm helping setup was rename 'Forum' to 'Message Board.' I'm not sure whether message board is actually more clear or not, or if thats just my dad.
10 minute video
I can certainly understand what lekei is (was) going through. To address a similar situation, the people at http://www.rubyonrails.org/ produced a video which shows a user installing RoR, setting it up and configuring a web application.
I don't think that Drupal installation and configuration should be a barrier to new users. A video showing the setup, install and configuration of Drupal could fit into 5 minutes. Another five minutes would be enough time to go through a whole lot of the Taxonomy/Vocabulary "mumbo jumbo" that keeps on intimidating people. I would think that sound would be unimportant, as you could illustrate cause and effect quite well without it.
Good documentation has its place, but there's nothing like seeing it done.
Thanks for the insight.
Sorry, I went away for a while after being slagged as a troll for being annoyed by the Drupal terminology.
I am not new to content management or to web development. I have used a many different content management systems and trained authors on systems such as Interwoven. I have also written several custom CMS applications in PHP and perl.
The problem with Drupal is that it is unlike anything I have seen before. It is a community-controlled system (inmates run the asylum approach) and is blog-oriented rather publisher oriented. These are extremely challenging new concepts to reconcile with the traditional corporate structure of development.
My clients also view their web site in the Corporate model. With pages, articles, subjects, categories, and issues, and publications. That is the way every traditional CMS application I have ever used has worked.
PS. Is there a setting on this site to be notified when someone replies to a thread you have been active in?
jmo
I think your comments are interesting and helpful for Drupal. The direction has been to move Drupal from blog-oriented rather than publisher-oriented --- it has been for sometime. Think about your comment regarding community controlled: have you had the ability to publish a statement such as the one you did on a public Interwoven (now Vignette) site?
Regarding your question about reply notification, not on this site unforunately. Drupal, however, has a subscription module to provide such a feature.
Community control
Of course I have had opportunity to publish general comments on an Interwoven site... in a forum section.
In traditional CMS, readers cannot contribute to a live site in the main content areas, only in the forums section. In the rest of the site, content is managed by editors and usually generic site text does not show up as a message written by a user by handle.
Other assumptions, such as that there would be use of content blocks, actually make having experience a detrement.
With Drupal, contributions
With Drupal, contributions for certain types is up to the site administrator. Main content areas may only be edited and created by high level users. There may be contributions by general users. Drupal has this flexibility with permissions.
tracker
http://drupal.org/user/18589/track
Tracker gets you close.
-sp
---------
Test site...always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
Be patience with yourself.
Be patience with yourself. Knowing something really well, then the next moment completely out of your comfort zone is not an enjoyable experience.
Just look it as a new tool box with some pretty incredible tools and like everything else, you’ll have to learn to use them. Heck, you might even have to learn the right questions to ask, this stuff is so different. I know I had to and still do.
I can remember when I first got here. I hate being out of my comfort zone more than most. And now I can install Drupal as fast as I can FTP it over. I change my config file and create the database while I’m waiting. If it takes me more than 30 minutes, its only because I forgot to grab the theme I wanted to use.
If I can offer any advice, load it, beat it to death trying things and loading modules. Then wipe it out and reload. The way you want it.
PS: nope no notification on the threads, but I think he's going to add it on the next version ;-)
Taxanomey - How to creat one
Having faced similary problem (figuring our how to create a taxonomy) I know how it feels.
Anyway, you can create a Tax... by going to administer->categories
I you already don't have a Tax. you can add it by clicking Add Vocabulary (vocabulary = taxonomy). Now you can fill in the fiels on this page and may be do a little experiments to figure out how Ts work. I assure you. This would be a good excercise.
True, there is a great amount of inconsistancy in drupal's use of words. Same things are refered to with diffrent words all the time. Eg. Taxonomy=Categories=Vocabulary. But then Drupal is still evolving. All this would be sorted out soon.
As for webmail, even I am looking for a webmail interface. I would love to have one and my be help any one who wishes to work on such a module (I am not a PHP programmer but can help in interface/usability issues). I will also help finantialy (a few $s can't be much as I am only a student) to some one working on this module.
Regards,
hpk
[De-centralizing the central issues]
National Institute of Design, India
Thank You :-)
I am an experienced developer who has been trying to set up a Drupal site for a few days. Ok, I confess I am fairly new to CMSs, but I have been taxed by this issue of taxonomy, in so far as I could not see how to make one.
Thank you hpk, it now all makes sense: taxonomy = vocabulary.
Why this difference between the word used in the documentation and the UI?
Bryght Support Guide
The best Drupal support documentation (which answers all your questions and more) is Bryght Support.Trust me, they took their time and wrote it well.
Apologies for bumping up
Apologies for bumping up this post on the fourms, but I wanted to second that opinion about the Bryght guide being the best documentation for non-techies.
Just in case there are people who have installed Drupal or Civicspace recently, although not all of Bryght's docs are applicable to Civicspace.
There is work being done to
There is work being done to considate the Drupal, Bryght, and CS guides into a best of all breeds. Join drupal-docs mail ist and pitch in.
-sp
---------
Test site...always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide