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READ THIS FIRST: Recommendations for hiring a Drupal site developer
Amazon - November 17, 2007 - 09:59
There is a good handbook page dedicated to this topic you should read before posting a job in this forum.
HowTo: Hire a Drupal site developer
Your posting should also include which parts of your project the developers will be allowed to contribute back to the Drupal project. Projects which allow the developer to contribute back to the community are preferred.
If you would like to speak to someone right now, please get an IRC client and join irc.freenode.net server, and join #drupal-consultants. There are consultants in that public channel 24/7.
Themes vs Sites
One of the most common issues I've come across with people looking to hire a Drupal developer is the difference between having a theme made and having a complete site built. If you're not sure what the difference is, you're probably looking for the second.
In general, a theme doesn't add any special functionality to Drupal, it just changes how it looks. If you need features that don't come standard with Drupal (news letters, WYSIWYG editing, node types other than story/blog/page, an image gallery, a "most viewed stories" block, anything like that), you need more than just a theme, you need a full site. Unless you plan to install and configure modules yourself, make sure you work out all the details before settling on a price.
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John Forsythe
Need reliable Drupal hosting?
Non Paying customers
Clients just don't understand the term "estimate" and "effort". They keep changing requirements and expect you to deliver the solution without additional costs.
As much as there are posts of "developers running away with money", there are also equal posts of "clients taking services and not paying". We need a separate forum for both. So far I only see posts against developers being allowed and this is not fair.
Roshan
I have also faced a problem
I have also faced a problem regarding theme development or full site development from a client. He posted for theme development but later i realize that he was having full site development consideration in his mind. That was horrible experience. Thanks for your post now. At least we can give a reference to this thread if there is any controversy.
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Professional theme developer
sakib.live[@]gmail.com
Theme/site
Absolutely right, but often clients are not the most CMS/Web savvy to understand the difference between themes and sites. They see a well-designed theme on someone's CMS site, and they want "something like it", or something "along those lines", thinking it may be a relatively simple copy and paste operation. Properly informing the clients in advance or explaining it on the web designer's business site may help avoid confusion.
Same here
I was hired for theme development when the client needed a full site with custom modules and only budgeted 30 hours. Not knowing how much work this kind of full-site customization is, he promptly refused to pay. Upon hire he assured me that all he needed was a theme to "drop in" and "light PHP." I am not sure what he thought that meant. A nightmare experience which taught me to be *really* clear about my abilities and what the client's actual requirements are. This process is highly detailed in a large corporation for a reason. Lack of it can really bite a consultant's behind.
Getting paid is important
At the very least report such clients so other service providers know how to deal with them. It is the heart and sole of your business. Don't allow anyone to go without paying - It is great to give people freebies for something in return but to let people walk away with everything without paying and you are left with nothing but BAD feeling is nonsense.
You lose double by walking away empty handed because you spent time for nothing and then if your next client could not pay likewise you really are in trouble.
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Roshan Shah
Don't Commit until the project is detailed
One of the things I've encountered when you free lance is not only do you have to be a developer/designer you also have to be a salesman, project manager and business analyst. This being said, whenever I freelance a job (almost always, I do make some minor exceptions) I ensure there is a draft of a SRS that defines what the client will receive. I walk through this with the client and we both sign off on the SRS. Which is also the statement of work. I will deliver to them what is defined in the SRS and if they want something different or change what they want - additional costs may be incurred and a Change Request is required.
After the SRS has been determined an LOE is drafted by myself and an estimate is created based on this. I provide the client the cost per hour and the hours estimated to complete the work. You can decide how to bill overages/underages (example +/- 15%...You go over your estimate by 50%...you eat 35% of the time). It wouldn't be fair to ask the client to pay for your mistakes in under estimating...
If the client doesn't approve of the cost then you only lose a couple hours. The time to draft the SRS and the Estimate should be minimal for a small job (< 3 hours).
If you stick to a similar process (I've been using this process for a couple of years and the company I work for has been using this process for 6-7 years and it works great) you will ensure your client and you both know what is going on.
I agree that some form of an
I agree that some form of an SRS is critical on most projects if you want to maintain your sanity, mortgage and marriage.
A traditional requirements spec may be too heavy; we're experimenting with a boilerplate SRS that specifies to a moderate level of detail and can be customized by-client. It's a lot more than clients are used to getting from the development firms they've dealt with before. (We're primarily a design shop, so this was a new discipline here, but perhaps because of that we've been able to keep to it pretty well.)
In my experience, what most development shops issue is a proposal, not a spec, and it's difficult to get specific based on the proposal. We give them something specific. It sets a metric for when and whether a feature is "finished", and as you allude, establishes when you need a "change" versus when you just aren't delivering on the feature.
Another thing about the SRS: It protects BOTH CLIENT AND PROVIDER. If what you want is to get a job done (and that's what most people want), then what it does for you is create a set of rules you both agree to apply to the project.
Agile methods: Please note that using some kind of an SRS does NOT mean you're not using agile methods! You can still use agile methods. You just need to:
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hey, thanks for sharing this, this is extremely usefull to me!
How about a section here in
How about a section here in the forum, where developer can show case some themes, and sell them. I know , we have a section to showcase our theme, but how about selling theme in one seperate section.
One more idea to promote more free drupal theme..........
We should have a section where people can showcase new theme design and ask for sponcers of the theme. The sponcers link will be placed at footer of theme.
http://www.techhunt.org || Free Drupal Themes
Selling themes on drupal.org
Selling themes on Drupal.org may not reflect best on the community spirit. I believe there should be a clear distinction between community showcase and business. The same goes for showcasing sponsors.
Recommended Checklist
In a vast pool of service firms and freelancers, here are few questions you may ask.
- speak with the provider on phone. Rather then Skype or chat, better to speak at least once to them via phone.
- ask for their code contributions (i.e whether they contributed any modules). If you are non-techie or cannot evaluate code, you may try and check out the contributed module and issue queue for that module. Also try and see if the module has been kept current and there is an effort to fix the issues.
- ask for URLs to live working sites
- ask for references with whom you can speak
- Talk to the developer who will work on the project
- Ask for photo / video on their infrastructure
- Find out about their internet connectivity. You don't want excuses that the Internet went down.
- Do they have weekly updates, conferences, present detailed time sheets?
- What is their employee retention ratio?
- What is their client retention ratio?
For high traffic sites:
- Ask what kind of support options they have once site is put in production
- Ask whether they have 24x7 Infrastructure monitoring services and admins inhouse? How to they handle emergencies?
- Ask whether they have experience in hardware sizing, LAMP stack tuning as well as inhouse performance optimization expertise?
You may also find someone at Facebook Drupal Service Providers Group http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2449272488&ref=ts.
Roshan
A mild version
Thats a mild version of a check list to prescreen but better than nothing.
Our latest free site... no checklist needed.
( though I have a problem updating core at times as I go in and rewrite many of the mods (core and other )
customizing to the site and when I update - well thats a trip in it self.. I'd rather be dealing with check lists.); ((g))
Thanks for all who contrib to Drupal..
Joe
http://www.patriotsrevolt.com ( another free site for the right )!
Nobody home
"please get an IRC client and join irc.freenode.net server, and join #drupal-consultants. There are consultants in that public channel 24/7"
There's no one there.
Edit: NVM, lol I found it now. It's full of people indeed!!
Sure there is
There's 29 people and a bot in there right now. Lots of people lurk and there's not a ton of conversation but we have interesting ones now and then.
Michelle
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See my Drupal articles and tutorials or come check out life in the Coulee Region.
Developers and Clients
This section and the comment is fascinating. I know that colleagues and friends who are in business have a hell of a time with developers. The most common response to any question about their business sites' development is: "I can't get a developer to do what they say they are going to do and deliver on time. When I do get their work it rarely performs as required and then I am over a barrel with them demanding more money and more time to fix the issues they have got wrong.". My point here is that there is a very common perception in business (UK) that developers are unprofessional pirates who act beyond normal business regulation. Having looked at the Drupal developer complaints about clients in this section it seems clear to me that the establishment of clear contracts, clear project definitions and deadlines is of benefit to all concerned. So my question has to be if Drupal developers have defined a code of conduct and performance which establishes them as a 'profession' and gives developer and client specific and clear duties, expectations and performance requirements. Speaking as a client, I have found that my expectations are rarely matched by developers and most specifically in the area of deadlines. I also recognise that my expectations, this is improving though,often fail to understand full the amount of work required to produce the outcome I desire. My final conclusion has to be that we all need much, much clearer communication before entering into agreements.
People are desperate
There are so many desperate freelancers, they basically tell you ANYTHING to get a job. I am not being negative here, and realistic I am...I just hired someone to do a Drupal customization and made the scope so clear, we even provided a PDF with visual representations of everything like a storyboard.
After four different people looked at it, tried to do the work, etc. (and yes I paid them), none were able to deliver the navigation on the PDF as stated, even though each of them indicated they could.
After all was said and done, I asked one of my regular software engineers who knows nothing about Drupal and was able to get this working in a couple of days as required.
The many alleged Drupal experts as they call themselves were not experts at all and one even promised a 10am delivery deadline and never emailed me back.
Very much an industry riddled with hacks, self-taught amateur programmers and just people in general desperate for any job they can get.
Christopher Spencer
The Spencer Company
borntodeal@gmail.com
Not really
There is a shortage of Drupal knowledgable people. Anyone competent in Drupal can find work easily. The trouble is finding someone who is competent and still has time to take on more work. When the people with a clue are all booked, it's easy for people without one to swoop in, claim they know more than they do, and do a crappy job. If anyone is desperate, it's the people doing the hiring because of the lack of qualified talent.
Michelle
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See my Drupal articles and tutorials or come check out life in the Coulee Region.
Ref Check
That is why you either go with firm which specializes in Drupal or find some freelancer who is really good with Drupal and can work with you on a long term(and not drop the project mid way) . In either case you would be better off if you would have taken time to do some reference check either by calling their clients or by visiting their linked in endorsements.
Roshan
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Drupal Development
Provide the service
Sales and marketing is something that has to be learned and exercised every day. Being "Salesy" is not a good approach. Discovering a potential clients problem and providing the best drupal solution and config, and being able to demonstrate that solution is a good start.
There are always difficulties in every project but loving what you do, hard work and open communication can be a solid backbone for providing the best solution to your client.
Most of my clients just want to be able to manage their own sites and be able to update content frequently with some bells and whistles, like image gallery, RSS, mailing list, etc.
Minimize their pain through every aspect even if you have to meet with them in person 10 times before even starting, make sure they understand and reach that level of comfort that they are going to get the best solution for the dollar they are going to spend.
I typcially don't accept any payment until the site is released and the client is happy. I give them until the very last minute to say hey, I changed my mind. That hasn't happened to me yet, knock on wood.
There are some clients that I discovered in the begginning that I can't help no matter how free or advanced the technology but it is on me to discover that before starting instead of just taking work to make dollar.
I provide the full service to the client and hope I provide the best solution at the most reasonable/affordable cost. Server setup, domain name management, drupal install, theme layout, theme graphic design, training, disaster recovery, long-term support and answer the phone at 2am for support and resolve client issues immediately or as quickly as possible. I'll farm out graphic design in some cases but I can spend between 60-80 hours 3-6 weeks to run the full course of a project from trying to figure out what a client needs (most of the time they aren't quite sure what they need) to 30 days of free support and site tweaks after site release.
I'm not selling my business here but just trying to say that typically a client is looking for the whole package and not just a portion.
Unrealistic expectations/pipe dreams
I run in to a lot of potential clients that want A lot.. and don’t realize what kind of work and time it takes to get something like that.
They show me sites like amazon.com a custom $50k site another $75k site and then say I want this with this and this and it will be better then these.
I say how much money are you willing to spend on this? Hmm. $1,100. to $1,500.
I just say I can’t help you with that..
It is a trap, they will never be happy with what anyone gives them they want a custom Lamborghini with unlimited modifications for the price of a used geo metro.
Problem not limited to client-provider relationships
This happens internally at some service providers, as well.
We've tried outsourcing in the past, with mixed results. And by mixed, I mean that we typically either:
So we've been building the sites ourselves.
The problem is that internally the Creative Director and Account Manager are often demanding a Lamborghini at that used Geo Metro price point. So we bid low and I end up putting in a lot more time on the project.
I don't have a remedy for that; we haven't found one, yet (which is to say, I haven't, since the people I report to just don't seem to get the nature of the problem). I'm just pointing out that this isn't a problem limited to client-provider relationships.
That's similar to why I left
That's similar to why I left the ad agency I worked at 3-1/2 years ago. The AE/CDs had no idea what they were selling and/or promoting. They just stuck it to me to build something that looked just like xyz.com, but on the cheap, and who cares what return it brings. Now I build 100% less all-flash sites, and 100% less dreamweaver sites. I almost never have to bill a client to change a copyright or fix a typo. The flip side is I build 100% more functional (and IMHO more effective) web sites.
http://www.trailheadinteractive.com
What's most irritating is
What's most irritating is that they won't own it.
If the project runs over time or I end up averaging 60 hour weeks, it's not because they insist on over-delivering ("I want to put a slideshow on the front page...let's add some video...of course they have to be able to upload files of unlimited size via the web even though we've never delivered that to a client before, what did you think?) or scheduling two or three website deliveries in a month and a half -- it's because I didn't scope or estimate the projects correctly.
I think the best things one could do as an independent contractor would probably be to find ways to:
Alas, I don't think I could make a living just doing websites freelance, or I'd think about it. In my market, there doesn't seem to be a middle ground between the shops that bid huge to cover their overhead and the ones that crank out commodity work at a commodity price I don't think I could compete with and still pay my mortgage.
We need Website Referees
I have hired several contractors... I can't tell you how many times I have been ripped off.
Everyone talks about clear and precise documentation and contracts as the method to prevent problems. I'm not saying documentation isn't important, good documentation is vital.
But contracts do not make a person honest or competent no matter how well they are written. 99.999% of all civil law suits have great documentation and contracts.
We need website referees. The client, contractor and referee come to an understanding as to the scope of the project, cost and time frame. The referee makes sure the documentation is clear and accurate. A referee is there from the beginning, stays with the project until the end. The Referee will insure that the site is being developed correctly. The referee can 'inspect' the work and rule on all of the little 'fouls' as they occur keeping the project on track. The Referee will be able to recommend a payment schedule as work is completed. The Referee will be able to tell if the contractor is incompetent and is unable to perform the tasks required. If the client is attempting add more or change the project, the Referee will negotiate those changes and make sure the contractor is compensated for those changes.
If the project has a problem, and ends up in court, the referee can act as the arbitrator and settle the issue very quickly. The referee will issue a judgment to the prevailing party, which can be registration with a court of competent jurisdiction and have a lien issued.
Courts will love this Referee system because disclosure is already completed (the exchange of documents) and all issues of law has been settled (in the contract), and the facts of the case are ready to be ruled on by the arbitrator (Referee). There is no judge, no jury and the case is not taking up court docket time.
A single referee could oversee many web projects and could be paid 10% of the project, plus fees for additional services.
I am looking for a person to act as a Referee for a project that I'm starting. If you are interested please contact me at pwriter@zunzone.com.
Referee = Escrow
Escrow is a service that provides a middleman in transactions. Commonly its used for something like real estate or online services, this middleman ensures that payment is received on one end, and product/service on the other. All 3 must sign on and off.
I dunno what the good escrow services are nowadays, but you might wanna look in these areas if you need someone credible. I don't think you would want some random person for a middleman, especially if there must be NDA's involved or you are worried about your intellectual property.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escrow
These are very useful
These are very useful comments. Thanks,
Izzy
drupal developer
i'm looking for an experienced drupal developer to help update a popular an existing news site.