This is a cross post from:http://groups.drupal.org/node/287563#comment-916603
I applaud the effort to unify and lead in defining what a "page" is and helping to provide leadership and direction to address the fragmentation of display approaches (ie. Context, Panels & CTools Page Manager, Display Suite...) but in practice I think this is actually making matters worse. At this point, a where should a new developer turn for direction. So many approaches have been abandoned in the past. I asked Merlinofchaos for some direction and here is the thread: http://drupal.org/node/1960336#comment-7321404. I almost feel like there is a bureaucracy / bourgeois intellectual discussion trying to make everything "right" but all this well intentioned idealism creates uncertainty, inefficiency and abandonment.
If panels were the future but may take a new form then I'd make it work. If Display suite were the approach then I'd make that work. I've heard many people who tried to develop in Drupal abandon it because of these issues. How should a newbie approach this?

Comments

charlie charles’s picture

I spent ages making a site using panels

when it came adding a "link" to send a author
a private message. Panels doesn't have this option

Unless you add a patch which I don't how to do
as a designer

So then I have to go back to display suite
which does have this option and
start all over again building the site :(

sonicthoughts’s picture

Yeah, this really seems rampant in the community. Facing the same thing with webform and entityform. Hardcore developers are not bothered by this as they can code around it but for mortals like us it is really frustrating.

sonicthoughts’s picture

Yeah, this really seems rampant in the community. Facing the same thing with webform and entityform. Hardcore developers are not bothered by this as they can code around it but for mortals like us it is really frustrating.

charlie charles’s picture

What would make life easier if Token's
we're required default for all drupal modules

take the address module for example
it took all these people just how work out
how to edit the display Country/state/city/postal address

See Thread

Because the address module team They refuse to add tokens to it.

If tokens we're required in all modules then panels
can display any type of Drupal module features

We don't have to wait for drupal 8 for this
it can be done now for all drupal 7 modules

charlie charles’s picture

This another a great example with
"private messages" module

Why there has to be token support
for all module features

Because this is a very complex approach
for just add a "send message" link to panels

See Thread

gábor hojtsy’s picture

Status: Active » Fixed

I don't really see how tokens or messages module is related to Spark, we ship with neither. Yes, we do ship with Panels and Panels in place editor.

As for which layouting solution is best or the ultimate solution, I cannot help you answer that. You should consider your options and pick what is best for you. In fact, an initiative wanted to get a panels-like layouting solution in Drupal 8 but did not manage to get there. As with most other open source projects, anybody can provide extensions and alternate solutions. There are many image gallery solutions as well. Different solutions serve different needs. When those needs are distilled down to one solution, you get modules like Views, which are not at all purpose built for specific needs but very general and therefore many times pretty technical to use. The difference between generalness and specific features is exactly less usability or proliferation of different specific solutions for specific problems respectively.

There is no central authority who will say Display suite is the way to go or Panels. If Panels (or especially Spark) matches your needs that will be a good fit for your project, otherwise a different solution.

charlie charles’s picture

we do ship with Panels and Panels in place editor

You should consider your options and pick what is best for you

Because spark responsive layout do not work with display suite
so panels is the only option. You can not consider your options and pick what is best with Spark

Improving Token Support is are far better answer than looking at the future of Display suite or Panel
most web designers can understand the concept of adding custom HTML to Pane

<div class="area">
addressfield:city-state
</div>
gábor hojtsy’s picture

Spark is not really an all or nothing choice. We have the responsive_preview, navbar, edit, etc. modules as standalone features, so you can opt to just take the responsive toolbar, site preview and in-place editing and choose other layouting solutions. You don't need to take the whole of Spark if you fell panels is not a good fit for your project. Enjoy the rest of Spark!

charlie charles’s picture

By removing panels you lose the responsive layout

The appeal of spark is you can control how the layout displayed on Desktop,
Tablet and Mobile and preview how that looks on responsive_preview

The answer to this would be get the responsive layout
working with all other layouting solutions!

or make even more responsive layout solutions modules!

But if tokens we're fully supported by all modules
then most things design situation
can be sorted out with a custom pane, tokens and bit of HTML

gábor hojtsy’s picture

I don't see how tokens would solve anything here. If we are to implement a content placement solution in Spark for the layouts, that would duplicate both the functionality of display suite, panels and core blocks for that matter (via tokens). I sure think/hope there is more appeal to Spark than "just" layout editing.

charlie charles’s picture

I think Spark brilliant! I've shown it to all my friends
who use Joomla and Wordpress

Saying this is so ahead of any other CMS
Drupal 8 is going to be the next big thing!

This situation with designing with Drupal
has been really frustrating.

You guys seem to be the only people who are listening to the Drupal
community about this

I'm most grateful for your time listening to my ideas
and your project getting better and better - Well done! :)

sonicthoughts’s picture

This is not the right forum for this so I apologize. You guys are absolute rock stars and have made enourmous contributions. Please see the array of choices facing a site builder. For a developer it is easy to address holes :patch, write a module, fork, maintain,etc. for a mortal like me it is a much higher cost to make a wrong choice. Please try to read the panels thread above from the perspective of a site builder. The maintainer of panels is uncertain about all these initiatives. No release in a year.

This is not an issue of a drupal authority, it is an issue of leadership. The commerce guys are a great example of good leadership. Thanks for listening and please convey this perspective to your team.

Status: Fixed » Closed (fixed)

Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.