[ OP recieved encouragement and responded in kind - thread closed to stop further instigation ]
The reason I have chosen to use drupal for my new site was the vast user base and support community. Very important when you are not an expert coder.
But! and this is a big but, I have had no end of problems just trying to set the thing up and make it look the way I want.
Firstly, the admin account didn't work right after install. I've installed a gallery mod for user galleries, that is causing me headaches to get right.
I have decided to use the defualt Garland theme but the colour changer doesn't work.
Apart from this, simply adding content to the site seems to be in cryptic. Taxonomy??? what the hell does that mean? or is it a technical term for a very simple action. Vocabulary, node, term, ????
I do totally understand that a lot of clever people give up a lot of their time to develop this package but I was always under the impression that CMS' where designed to make it easy to manage a site without programming knowledge, or at least minimal.
I have been designing and managing static sites for a number of years and felt that it was time to offer my users more features, etc.
Unfortunately, my head feels like it's about to explode with all the cryptic clues I've been banging it against over the holidays and I have got nowhere with this app.
I don't want to get left behind and am going to continue persevering with Drupal until my head can't cope with anymore.
Maybe someone could come up with a system to make it a bit more user friendly for beginners????
Comments
Yes, it's always hard to be
Yes, it's always hard to be a newbie :)
* Node - a piece of content, like a post in blogs
* Taxonomy - like tags in blogs, or like labels in gmail.
Before rushing to all kind of modules maybe get familiar with the more important ones:
* CCK
* Views
Try taking small stpes, it means don't try to get extreme features. Even to get he content built properly (CCK) needs some learning. But when you get it - u'll love it!
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gizra.com - where cool software developers meet geek fashion designers
I have never had a use for
I have never had a use for CCK, all it does is add extra fields in node creation for whatever reason, which btw i've never had a reason to add any new fields so why would I need this CCK... I like how the name is random and means nothing (Content Construction kit, very explanatory!!)
Views? Views I used it for a while on one of my sites... It's the buggiest module I own after the Captcha one (which I changed to myCap)... The sorting doesn't work period. You can't do much with it, other than change your content to a list in a table, and add a couple fields, which are useless since u cannot sort with them.
One other problem drupal has, are duplicate modules, like for example, there is a BBCode module that works with QuickTags (which is like a toolbar for the BBcode), but I really liked this new [replacementTag] module (which also interprets BBcode), which doesn't work with QuickTags. So the only way to do it, is manually edit QuickTags to work with [replacementTag] module.
The Last big problem Drupal has... is integration with forums (which usually dont work well, with full bugs), and their own forum is just plain crap. It's the simplest form of a forum. I am surprised they don't at least customize the forum of drupal.org itself so that it looks and feels good. But seriously, drupal.org forums looks like yahoo groups...
They need to figure out a way to come in-to-par with other forums like IPB and vBulletin.
I remember there was a project about improving the Drupal forums... But hey, I bet they gave up, because months later I still dont see a forum module anywhere.
The good thing about Drupal is the customization you can do, so if you're a programmer its really great! I finally found a module to fix the stupid taxonomy_menu module's wierd naming pattern of "taxonomy_menu/3/5" to like "vocab/term/node". I also found a module thats called DHTML Menus which makes Drupal's menu system actually become effective. Also now I need to figure out how to customize it even more so that people won't even recognize its drupal by seeing a term like "node" on the URL.
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Ummmm, Content Construction Kit simply means, that you can build any type of content type you wish adding to that content type most any kind of field you wish. Thus negating a downloads area full of modules that provide new content types.
Use CCK to build it by adding ingredient fields, an imagefield for a picture of the final product
you can build one with CCK
CCK allows you to do this too!
Only your lack of imagination can hold you back with what you can do with CCK.
Content = content , construction = build tada! Content Construction Kit, You're right this name doesn't make any sense!
on to your next unconstructive criticism........Evidentally, you had trouble with views.module. Granted it certainly isn't the easiest module to wrap your head around. Did you file any issues on what you claim to be bugs against the project so that the developer can take a look? Looking at your tracker, I see that you didn't. Did you even read the documentation in the handbooks on views and check out some of the tutorials?
Views is by far the buggiest module around. So buggy it's being used on some of the largest sites that were created with Drupal but hey, what does that prove? right?
and on to your next unconstructive criticism........The forum.module
You do realize Drupal didn't set out to be a dedicated forum software package?
Some people prefer simplicity, maybe not you and that's fine, no one is forcing you to use Drupal.
Obviously you want everyone else to make drupal better while all you contribute what? posts like the one above?
That's community spirit, if ever I saw it!
and on to where you speak without any idea of what you are talking about ........If anything is crap, it's comments like the one you made there. Fact is it's still being worked on. Rome wasn't built in a day nor a few months and neither is a replacement forum module that YOU want to compete with dedicated forum scripts. If you'd have done any investigatin before making such statements you'd know what was going on and wouldn't look like a fool for making comments that are ummm, FALSE! All that comment does is show that you come from the fast food generation. You want it your way and you want it now!
May the spewing of negativity be the chains that bind you and may you get 10x more then you ever give. Until you find it in your soul to be appreciative of the thousands upon thousands of hours of other peoples work that you obviously take for granted.
Karma my friend, Karma :wink:
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My posts & comments are usually dripping with sarcasm.
If you ask nicely I'll give you a towel : )
Hmm
Content Construction Kit sounds to me like a module that autogenerates content for you, because you are constructing content not content types. Content Type Construction Kit would make it more obvious.
>>Thus negating a downloads area full of modules that provide new content types.<<
You're funny; there is a whole downloads area full of modules that add on to CCK. Wow, major progress!
>>Did you file any issues on what you claim to be bugs against the project so that the developer can take a look? Looking at your tracker, I see that you didn't. Did you even read the documentation in the handbooks on views and check out some of the tutorials?<<
If the views module is so popular as you people claim, and yes you do it all the time. Then why would I have to report the bug? Apparently a lot of people should have that bug where sorting just doesn't work, because thats a very obvious and easy-to-observe bug, if they can't even make a sorting module work correctly, then yes I will insult their hard work. Especially since I program Drupal modules, I know its not that difficult an API to actually be blind enough to create bugs.
I didn't read the documentation, i'd assume their _help hook would be enough, maybe they were lazy.
forum.module,
some people prefer simplicity, thats why they get vBulletin and IPB, not because it's complex. IPB and vBulletin however, also offer an ability to make it complex, but thats just the smartness of their software, and if anyone has ever made a forum, you'd know that yes, it involves a lot of time consuming programming, but it isn't a very difficult concept.
>>Obviously you want everyone else to make drupal better while all you contribute what? posts like the one above?<<
Well excuse me, but I programmed hundreds of modules, yet never has drupal accepted me as a developer to actually allow me to add my modules to their lists. Because apparently Drupal has decided it doesn't want my help nor the help of many others. I notice amazing modules like MyCap, and yet Drupal lists buggy crap modules like CAPTCHA in their list. Ironic isn't it?
Posts like mine, will make some developers actually look at their own projects and go... "well yeah maybe I can improve my module". It's criticism. When critics rate a movie badly, movie directors don't go yelling at them, and telling them it's their imaginations fault, but they go and make a better movie, I'm sure the director/writer of Epic The Movie will think twice when making a comedy.
>>Fact is it's still being worked on. Rome wasn't built in a day nor a few months and neither is a replacement forum module that YOU want to compete with dedicated forum scripts.<<
Last I investigated it looked like they had a good number of dedicated programmers, and if they were any good, it wouldn't take more than a month, unless they are making some sort of forum to make IPB cry, if they are, it would have been nice if they informed us about it, or at least released a beta version thats less powerful.
>>You want it your way and you want it now!<<
That's right, thats how industries improve. I love criticizing the hell out of Linux, mac, and windows, because all of them have huge flaws and they always seem to mess something up, or miss the mark. If they actually listened to people like me who call their hours of work, a piece of crap, they might actually make something extremely amazing for its time, like Windows XP, and perhaps the new Mac Leopard.
I'm not gonna go out to Washington state and start contributing to microsoft, but my criticism might make one genius listen and make something really amazing.
Let's be honest, I'm a programmer, and I know all programmers well almost all, are very lazy when it comes to perfecting their own software, it's a never ending job though.
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That's pure nitpicking.
I didn't say negate a downloads area full of downloads, I said a downloads area full of content types, especially ones new users won't know how to add fields to. Not everyone needs every type of field that is being built for CCK so there is no reason to bundle them all in together.
If you are such a fantastic programmer to have programmed hundreds of modules where is your work on a forum.module ?
and such a fantastic programmer you are you didn't fix it, especially when it's as easy as you claim!
posts like your make you look ungrateful.
wrong again, fewer than 3 people are working on it and only 1 full time. And there is a -dev version available.
constructive criticism is one thing, what you offer is far from that while using words like crap and stupid and throwing your alleged skillset around while not contributing back in any way shape or form. Especially if you claim to have found bugs.
your explainations hold water like a bucket full of holes and you obviously only chimed in to start offending people and slinging mud.
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My posts & comments are usually dripping with sarcasm.
If you ask nicely I'll give you a towel : )
Start with the "A"s...
http://drupal.org/project/advanced_forum
The rest of that I just don't feel like touching. I've had my fill of trolls 7 million times over lately.
Michelle
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See my Drupal articles and tutorials or come check out life in the Coulee Region.
:) I hear that, Michelle.
:) I hear that, Michelle. "7million" and "20 billion" both.
--keith
I understand, but...
Hi, I understand what you mean about some of the terms but as you pointed out you have worked them out.
I have been using Drupal for nearly a year now and I still find some things a little difficult if i try and tackle them myself that is - but when I look through the many tutorials and put questions to the community it seems I'm not the only one, so problems have always been solved.
If Drupal is your only CMS then you should have no worries. Engross yourself in it and you will be laughing in no time.
May i also suggest 'Lullibot' (I think thats the right spelling!) video casts, they helped me a lot, and recently I discovered I can install a test server on my mac so I can play with Drupal server permitting or not!
I know you are not discouraged but, don't feel its always going to be difficult. Last advise is always back up! Some modules do not work instantly and it is so refreshing knowing that you have backed up. I usually create a testsite alongside the 'real' site so any mistakes are made there.
That's it! Have fun and welcome.
> May i also suggest
> May i also suggest 'Lullibot' (I think thats the right spelling!) video casts, they helped me a lot, and recently I
> discovered I can install a test server on my mac so I can play with Drupal server permitting or not!
http://www.lullabot.com/podcast
--keith
When you start with Drupal,
When you start with Drupal, it is not like buying a car. More as if you buy yourself a garage.
Drupal is a complex, technical piece of software. You saw that correct. You present this as if it is something bad. Something that should change. If you feel like that about Drupal, then it is probably not the right tool for you. You may be better off with a system that is more end-user aimed then Drupal, and less technically-aimed.
Drupal is not just a CMS, it is also (soma might say: primarily) a CMF, with the F of framework. Meaning: a garage where you can build your own car. And we all know that building your own car is far more time-consuming, harder and requires more skill then simply walking over to a dealer and buying a car.
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Professional | Personal
just don't give up on it !!
Hi, I have had the same thoughts as you do right now but I strongly advise you to keep going. The CMS will get better and easier to deal with over time, for sure, thanx to the community. I'm using this software for more than a year and I have come to the good habit of creating a basic site with some functionality and at least 10 modules installed and working flawlessly. I made a personal back up of this {includes passwords and logins, the structure and of course the database used}. So every time when it goes wrong, you don't have to start completely over new. A good way to get started with Drupal are the videos of this guy. {Go Elliot Go!! I'm a personal admirer of you ;-)} I watched most of them and they were a BIG help !! You might wanna look at the date of production too you know, maybe the drpl-version he is using in his tutorial isn't up to date.. but still it shouldn't be that much different {depending when you are reading this of course for all you futurists out there who keep on living and browsing the cloud ;-) }.
Lots of success with it !!
ps: I'm not really a coder although I understand html, css and a tiny little php. I've made 5 sites so far up and running {maybe not all entirely finished}
Authentically,
BassPlaya
Have look at the handbooks...
Hi Randelld,
have a look at the Drupal handbooks on this site too.
For some reason many newcomers (and for that matter some old timers) overlook all the information stored there. I still find nuggets in the handbooks whenever I go mining :-).
A few good starting points:
Since you are fairly new to Drupal you should consider helping out/joining the documentation team with your insights as a newcomer. What could be written better and how etc.
Regards,
Christian Larsen
Blimey!
Well, what great load of encouragement. I know that I'm impatient, but I also know that I'm not going to bin the idea of learning Drupal. I know that it is going to be the ideal tool once it's up and running. It is going to eliminate all the issues I've currently got with my static site and add "stickiness" also.
I know I shouldn't but I'm a bit like a kid in a sweet shop when I browse through all the available modules.
I've been away from the pc and am now going to work through these brilliant replies one by one and see what I can gleen from them.
Thank you very much guys, they are very much appreciated.
Hanging on in there.
Drupal is not a simple CMS, it is a CMP
Comparing Drupal to an easy to set up CMS will always make Drupal hard to learn for newbies. But Drupal is not a CMS, although a lot of users will simply use the basic functions of Drupal and, as a result, have a CMS.
Drupal is a Content Management Platform. In other words, it can be viewed as a development platform. And with any development platform, no one can learn everything about Drupal. You can create very simple projects to very large and complex projects. And, the best of all, for any project, there will always be room for ameliorations.
You should see Drupal as a starting point for your projects. And the more you will learn, the more you will think that there are still a lot to learn.
/*_*/
http://www.xmacinfo.com
Taxonomy, a pet peeve
It is a pet peeve of mine that people bitch about the word "taxonomy" rather than bothering to look it up.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/taxonomy
"Taxonomy" is the right term; a Drupal taxonomy is a scheme in which content can be organized. Drupal supports multiple concurrent taxonomies. Within a taxonomy, terms can be created that provide what might be regarded as "categories."
There is a movement to switch to the word "categories" in Drupal, and in fact that's the menu entry right now. I think that is a mistake. The word "category" is ambiguous and does not fit the application.
Drupal 6 uses Taxonomy
Good news! In Drupal 6 the Category menu have been renamed Taxonomy, which is truly is.
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http://www.xmacinfo.com
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I agree the switching of this to categories was an unnecessary move. I'm glad this change has been reveresed.
_____________________________________________________________________
My posts & comments are usually dripping with sarcasm.
If you ask nicely I'll give you a towel : )
Test sites.....
Compared to some alternatives, I find Drupal pretty friendly. That doesn't mean it is as simple as I would like.
I have had times where I couldn't see how certain modules were working, so one thing I have done is to install a couple of Drupal test sites: If my main Drupal is under /var/www/html, then these are under /var/www/html/test1/html and /var/www/html/test2/html. Drupal is pretty easy to install, so it took very little time to add these test sites. This way, I can add modules and completely foul one of the test sites up without getting stressed out. I always install phpMyAdmin so I can go look at what the differences are in the database and troubleshoot.
It took me a while to decide how to use stuff like taxonomy and image galleries, but with my 2 test sites it has been a lot easier to experiement.
Cheers,
J
Drupal is definitely not the
Drupal is definitely not the easiest system to grasp, the reason being that Drupal aims to be more than a CMS, more like a CMF, Content Management Framework. Now, that's all theory, you just want your articles up and running. I have some experience in Joomla, even contributed some 6 well appreciated modules and bots to that community. Let me tell you: Joomla is easier to understand - up to a certain level. Once your requirements go beyond that level, and once you want things like (more or less) granular user access system, a system for semantically organizing your contents, a Very clear separation between what is core and what is not, Drupal is definitely going to be the winner. Even the Creator, Dries, acknowledges somewhere on his site that Drupal has a (relatively) steep learning curve, and that there may be moments of frustration. Try to overcome them, because it's really worth your efforts.
If you're looking for a number of good starting points, I'd say the following are quite good:
1) The Drupal Cookbook: http://drupal.org/handbook/customization/tutorials/beginners-cookbook
2) Help comes from unexpected places - like Nepal :-) : try this 90+ pages PDF manual, 'Drupal How-to for beginners': http://www.mediafire.com/?fvt2jxsdxvs . Downloading can be a bit cumbersome, but it does work.
3) Moving back to drupal.org, there's also a very neat 'gettting started' PDF out here: http://drupal.org/files/getting-started_2.pdf
4) A tiny bit more 'technical', and applying to Drupal before version 5, is a very good set of articles by our friends over at IBM: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/ibm/osource/implement.html
Then there's this forum, of course, although it lacks a clear link on the front page: "HERE is what you need to get started". But with the luggage of the four sources I listed, you can definitely get going.
And don't be upset about Drupal's rather eccentric names: a node is a text, taxonomy means structured tagging, and that's all there is to it.
Don't despair!
Not that hard
Maybe it's just me, but I thought Drupal was pretty easy to use right from the start. Sure once I wanted to add more modules and do more complex things, it got harder, but not impossible. Focusing on one problem at a time makes it easier to deal with everything.
Once you get your head around taxonomy, it makes using and managing your site A LOT easier I feel.
_0_
http://kricket.110mb.com
Thanks
Thank you all for your input.
Have a great New Year
http://www.spainserve.com