By hugafish on
Here is my never ending work in progress Web Site for "Musicians helping Musicians". Check my site out and help me spread the word to Musicians. Always open minded for feedback, I have limited skills with programming but I chose Drupal for it's wide variety of Module integration and support as well as it's clean design and search engine friendliness. Also I had no clue in how to go about having a web site for users and Drupal has fit the bill extremely well. My site has only been around for a few months and I am having very good unique visitor results. This is a great CMS and it will only get better I'm sure. You can find my site at
Thanks
Comments
visiting your mainpage i
visiting your mainpage i have no idea what the site is. the first text i read upon loading was a bunch of stuff about signing people up to get $3. very strange.
Yes I know this site is very
Yes I know this site is very different approach than most of the automated non personal and full of false promises type of sites out there. My site actually offers real world tangibles and money payout to artists. All they have to do is pay a $12.00/yr Premium user subscription to be a part of the Musicians premium benefits. The site does offer free membership for all users but they just don't have the ability to upload audio which in my experience and what is obvious on the web is full of troll type uploads and copyrighted stuff and junk. I'm trying to establish a more club and personal approach to the Musicians that are just being promised false hope from most all of the other sites out there. I thought that I would paste up what the site actually gives away to members who sign up to the premium services because I was getting the traffic but no sign ups. Apparently they and you don't get it though so I have taken that post down. It's my learning curve not you or them that is at fault with that. I Just need to have a better way of marketing my concept. Once a person gets on my site and reads the posts and checks it all out they may start to understand the whole new process I am trying to achieve, but thats OK if it is a trickle in process because that usually means that those individuals get it and are more serious about their music in general. Thanks for the feedback it is very important to me. because like I said and I mean this sincerely, it is my lack of ability to market my concept that is at fault with the user sign up process. Other than adding future modifications that make the site cooler etc all other aspects of the site are going fairly well as expected. I think I need to work up a link that just loads a page to explain the site a little better to non musicians and then the benefits to musicians. I have my plate so full of things I am working on but this is up their high on the list..
Thanks
Eric
Well. Speaking of promises.
Well. Speaking of promises. The garland theme isn't promising for a commercial music website.
agreed. Changing theme in
agreed. Changing theme in drupal is quite easy. The time consuming part is picking the right one. In case you haven't tried, themegarden is a good starting point.
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Need a jump start of your new site?
garland is OK
I do agree their are better themes from what i have heard. I guess I'm afraid of blowing out all the modules and configs I have already set up and a change like themes scares me to pieces. I am not trying to go for the myspace look or reverb total look I think these sites are starting to become one and the same and actually build a false hope for musicians. Instead of reiterating here go read the blog on my site titled "Cool VS Real" if you care that is, to get a better understanding where I stand on independent music and musicians helping musicians etc. I will check out the theme "themegarden" oh and educate me to as to why garland is so wrong of a choice I'm still learning as I go.This time around I decided to not try and figure out everything in advance in creating a live web site. I and a friend tried to do that three different times and got almost no reaction at all. This time I was just farting around with a concept idea and I said what the hell i'm just going to go for it and get it out and before i could stop it, it kind of grew a head of it's own. I like to think of my site as a shared piece of clay trying to become somthing but not sure what that somthing really is quite yet but i have to say it has been fun so far.
Thanks
Eric
aka IGTB
actually themegarden is a
actually themegarden is a website. www.themegarden.org
and I read you Cool VS Real. But what I don't understand is the whole false hope that a nice template would give. I'm just saying, if the site gives hope for artists based on users visiting to listen to there music, a little style would help bring in more users to listen to the music. Take projectopus.com for example. They get loads of users. If you made a nice design like that, and paid the artists too then I think you might have something going here. Like the flixya or revver of music websites unlike myspace or imeem.
Nobal Mission
Well mike.hobo, after this long of a time period, I think my nobal mission will have to be transparent, and efforts of promotion are going to have to be with taking a different route such as you suggest. There are just too many reasons out here to dis-believe a web site, and it's intentions as well as marketing methods to get that word out. I am just now getting around to checking out the themegarden site to see if I can integrate a new theme for this approach, this along with the book I am reading for profiles should get the job done correctly. Thanks again for the pointer.
Eric
style
Tried to reply to mike.hobo but the site would not let me? so I just added a new comment. I agree with the style issue and I had promised my existing users that I would spend the next 6 months revamping the cool factor up. As far as the false hope goes, I may have made a comment in another post on my site can't remember, but most musicians think that if they have a nice cool little profile area that it is going to help promote their music I think for some it will but that is probably more to do with their personal networking efforts more than a profiled web site in itself. The fan base is usually stagnant and already existent for the most part unless that individual goes out and works it, the sites that is, via networking skills. Most of the music musicians put up on their profiles never get prime real estate viewing unless they are payed for or promoted by $$$ companies. I think you are right though and I have expressed this to some of my users as well that a combination of both will be the best route. I think this is due to the level of maturity most bands have as far as marketing efforts go. They are doing the networking themselves for the most part and are not getting anything back or real world help from the sites that suggest that they are helping them. These sites are merely a tool for an existing networking skill. Most go there and then don't work it as they need to. They think the site has some kind of built in magic success path(False Hope).
I am also pondering the ideal of just creating my own mysql queries and block controlled areas to accomplish a whatever I like it to feel like and look like approach as opposed to using the confines of another theme or trying to modify my existing theme. I'm wondering if this may be a more efficient way to do it creatively that is. I use kinda my own css template and perl where I can place any image and control areas all over the place where ever I choose and this would allow for me to add a lot of my own database functions into that code as well. Is it completely taboo or bad usage to use a combination of off site so to speak code as well as using a combination of perl mysql and the existing Drupal system. Can I do this or isthis going to hurt my sites SEO. I feel very confortable using what I already know such as perl and mysql and css atleast at the level of what I already have used in the past. an example of that kind of placement control I am used to is on another non Drupal site I am working on called showmostuff.com, here with this level of code understanding I can place anything anywhere and completely control everything. I was thinking of using a block to launch such a coded page showing profile images and all kinds of other user goodies extracted from all of the Drupal databases however i see fit. Is this completely off my rocker or would this approach be OK?
Eric
def consider a new theme...
the site feels very homegrown because you're using a default theme (like the countless wordpress installs with default theme, same feeling)
based on your potential audience and ages, you *may* want to consider the fblike theme, you'll have no issues with it - and it is designed to look and feel just like facebook (colors and styling and all of that, including pictotitle support for fonts in header/slogan areas)...
why? you oughta go 2 column - focus on the artists, not the sidebars and ads and all of that crap, put the artists in the bulk of every page, make navigation and utility an aside...just my opinion.
very similar
when you are trying to do something unique the last thing to consider is looking the same as which, default or the other slick music sites. I'm not sure or convinced which one is actually better or is it that the so called cool sites are just fad or user base growth acts from desperate Musicians. With that said I do agree with the two column approach, this would be more like the website Vocalo.org I think with more viewing space. Homegrown feel is actually what is missing I think with web sites. There seems to be to much emphasis in robotic automation web sites after you get their you go off looking for another one for some reason and that reason usually isn't just networking it could be frustration, like going to a bar to pick up a chick again and again only to come to the same conclusion. when you look at what you think is regular, that so called default theme, how many millions of web viewers really give notice to that when your web site is actually about them and their content to begin with. I am trying not to disagree just for disagreeing but trying to look at this through regular peoples eyes as opposed to what is a gathering of thoughts from a web site developers sets of eyes. Not knocking your input just trying to analyze in a different angle. All of my big whopping 7-10 users feel very relaxed and personal about my site. So then welcome user number 11 and you are also special etc etc. I am trying to have a feel for the few the proud and so on type of feel. I am not trying to design the coolest thing since Velcro where I get a landslide of Star Struck Wannabes and Idiot Trolls. I prefer a steady slow tricle of more serious or rounded Musicians who get it and then create a large exposure base for them. As for my site the number of unique visitors have been like this since I really started it, 1st month 80 unique visitors, 2nd 240, 3rd 320, 4th 352. 5th 720 best I can remember, yeah baby, I doubled my unique visitors this month woo hoo.
You guys are great though for the input I think it is good to feed from each other opinions and ideas. I am more experienced with the marketing side of things and customer service issues than I am with programmer/web site developing side of the table on this stuff. As far as the side bars and ads, actually they are everything if you are going up against the likes of the RIAA and the big Producers realm of businesses. You see my site is actually trying to develop a fund for the Premium user musicians to use for their endeavors and to self promote with real world success not just computer based fan bases. Although I do recognize and appreciate the importance of such a fan base propagation method. I will definitely check into these theme ideas you guys have given me such as the face book theme. What is one of these themes going to do to my current and existing data on my site if I was to like just load it and turn it on. Is it that simple or am I going to have to hack the PHP code etc to make it work in the realm of cool? Again Don't miss read me into shruging your ideas off or anything like that, I think you guys are awesome for giving me some feedback when you didn't have to do anything at all. I think this is what makes Drupal really a great CMS choice and that is users like you all.
Eric
Groove On!!!
Time Flys by when your having fun
Well after much time and thought towards the great ideas I have read here and on other areas of this Drupal site. I have decided to build the jamacast second site with the 007 Nigraphics Theme. I think it is a good mix of functionality space and coolness. The theme is very much like I am used to working with to a degree. At least it is not too intimidating for me to mess with or should I say mess up, haha. The new site will be up and testable in a couple of months and so far everything seems to be going OK with it. I am going all new with Drupal 6.10 and more current versions of PHP and Mysql. Still waiting for some of the other modules that I like to mature into the Drupal 6 stage though. When I am complete with the new site I will be launching an effort to create a music video for Drupal so I can contribute back in a way I know how, since I lack coding abilities. Still having fun with Drupal and thats all that matters.
Groove On !!!
Eric
changing the login format
hi
Have you got a link or some info. on how to get the reformat login layout?
-oliphant
Need More
Need more info on what you are talking about. I am assuming you are meaning with the nigraphics theme login? If so I have no clue at this moment.
not sure
Hi, not sure what you mean, please elaborate some more.
Eric
Nah!
The website sucks, you can't even reach musician's profiles. The design is sketchy and confusing. You need to do a better job when you charge money. I mean, maybe it does what it was designed for but... personally don't like how it looks and functions.
Thanks
Hi, thanks for the feedback! I went back to the default Drupal theme until I find more people to help out with making the site cooler looking. It works for it's intended purposes though. I don't charge any money for this site. Way back when I was first starting the site I was attempting to charge to form a fund account divide up to the musician user base but that went nowhere as did a few other attempts on this site. I view this site as a WIP and it is currently in its 4th phase of building and design. I view it as a piece of clay we are all trying to build together sort of, instead of sitting back trying to out think everyone and everything and then releasing it with the same failure rate averages that are known on the web, somewhere around 60 to 70% as I last recall. The site has been up and running for over three years now and slowly gets a few new users here and there. I do get a viewers or unique visitors of around 800 to 1200 every month with some dips down in the 600 or so. I have a to do list that is about 20 pages in length ha ha. The original vision and mission have never changed and will always be true. I agree it does suck right now and I'm thinking it will probably get to where it needs to be on the 10th design phase and then I may be able to call it a beta site. Yes I have released an alpha design to the public in an effort to continue marketing with lower budgets and recruiting great ideas and talent. One of the things I am working on getting people to help with are with profile development or design, and just sent a message to a developer on the Ampache module. I think this could be promising integration because the Ampache already has a cool Android App for music listening mobile devices. I am having fun here mainly, and hope to help musicians get promoted in the best way I can and afford to.
Thanks
Eric
Profiles
Hi composer_v , I am concerned that you could not even get to a users profile page, and yes I agree the sites profiles suck for sure. There are little icons on the top right of site main page that link to users profile pages, is this not visible to your system? Profiles are an area I have decided to let someone else do or try a couple other ideas on after I have read that book on profiles I intended to get some time ago, but forgot too. I am also looking into the Ampache work too as a possible replacement or integration option.
Eric
fickle
Yes it does appear as though I am fickle on the topic of themes and some other issues. I just try some new things and get stuck with out any real help in going forward in a timely manner, so I try new approaches such as themes. I tried the Nigraphic theme but it was too limited in column sizing and I am not wanting to be a css coder with every thing I try, garland has not presented any real problems in screen realestate. I am not a programmer so it takes me a lot longer to figure out very basic things. However I do learn to be more this way, and have become a better programmer like person. Maybe some day I will actually become a full fledged programmer! Nigraphic theme fell short of what I wanted it do so I had to code, modules always seem to fall a bit short so again coding is needed, profiles on Drupal, not even going to go there yet, but I have thought about getting that one book on the subject that is recommended to help, but I'm sure I will have to code with this too. Ok, I will go there a bit, I really can't understand why just a basic semi cool profile theme is not available by default with Drupal. We can have an ugly one by default but not a cool one? That is not cool, sorry! Not that I mind learning to code, I actually like it some, it's just that I am not a programmer type and view coding as a chore that is not too fun but should be fun. My site is already way behind the schedule I would like to have accomplished and so I think it is time to try to find others who are willing to help out with this project. I am an idea man, a right brain thinker type with a little left brain occasionally. This project has mostly become trial and error, wow that's programming isn't it! especially the errors, all sarcastic kidding aside I have had a great overall experience with Drupal, and I still highly recommend it as the platform to use for CMS. I just need to pick up my programming skills mostly. I am starting to get an inclination to look at the Ampache thing a little bit closer because it seems to be geared for audio media. I might even just let it become my main interface to users via a block design front page Just batting ideas around in my head here. Feel free to slam me on anything you would like, I am thick skinned and actually will get something from any feedback over none at all. Thanks
Eric
profiles
Now I did find the profiles. What did you use for profiling? Stock drupal user profiles?
New Theme
I am currently reading a profile book and working it step by step using content profile module, but as of right now the default user profiles is what is being displayed. I think the content profile module is going to make it happen the correct way once I have finished tweaking it. I have made some CSS sites in the past that use images as the main back ground look and feel, I will just have to learn how to integrate this CSS code with the Drupal way of integrating. Before, I just positioned fields where I wanted the Mysql queries to land and all worked good but now with Drupal I am lost, and have to learn their way of coding with themes when I have the time that is. I'm not a CSS coder pro, but I know what I know, and thats not much ha ha. When I coded my old sites, I may have had two or three tables, and I look at my current Drupal's 198 tables, and freak at where to even begin. I thought if I could just find a canned CSS theme that would work that would be cool, but they all look and feel the same to me so far. I'll keep looking though. I think I'm going to try one of the ones mentioned above and see where it takes me!
Eric
P.S I'm glad I read your post too because I looked at my permissions and saw where I had no ticks on the anonymous users view profiles section. I could have swore I had those ticked, oh well guess not. Thanks still the same I caught that because of your post.
Help
Hi hugafish,
I've just looked at your site, its a good start but its a bit all over the place.
Modules
Have you checked out http://www.drupalmodules.com ? There are lots of cool modules you can use for your website on there. They have lots of stuff that you can just upload to your web server and just enable which will add great functionality to your site for user profiles, sharing music, voting etc
Themes
Eventually if your site takes off wouldn't it be nice to be unique? What's stopping another music site using the same theme? If you need a hand in creating a theme i will help you knock one up for free - it would be basic as its free but at least it would be unique to your site?
I think the idea of your website is great. I've been thinking about making a site like this for some time now but never seem to have the time. I play about with cubase and various other music software but my music never leaves my bedroom lol. Anyway let me know if you want some advice or a hand with a theme.
Good luck for the future.
Hugafish I would bite
Hugafish I would bite sa1websolutions hand off for that very generous offer.
I have read that you are scared of breaking things to change the theme. However experienced we are we all break things sometimes, but what we do is make a backup of files we're editing in case our new code breaks something. Have another site where you can experiment, try things out, where it's OK to play around and for the whole site to break and start again if need be. CSS may look daunting and I know not everyone will get it, but once you learn the basic concepts it's really not nearly as difficult to understand as something like PHP.
I think working with Drupal you can get away without knowing any PHP, but learning CSS really allows you to make things look the way you want.
Great Help
Wow you guys are great for the feedback and help. When I put this site out I knew over three years ago it would take this long to iron out all things cool etc. I spend a lot of time promoting musicians and music in general. I wrote down a to do list that will take me to about 10 design phases and just recently I have purchased the profile book fr1om a user of this site that helps you build a better site. When I finish that book I may have some more ideas to bundle together. I would love to have some help with the site you offered, sa1websolutions, as soon as I have info for a description of where I would like to see it go. Maybe show me some examples of design ideas etc. I would need for it to be compatible with mobile devices because that is where we are heading in the future. I am in no hurry, so there would be no specific time frame requirements just as long as once something is started it is at least left off in a working condition to start again at a later time, very flexible here. Pre-time line estimate would be appreciated on projects though so as to prepare for future events. I would like the site to be more ajaxified if possible. One of the things that I dislike about the audio module, are that it is to lengthy for a musician to go through the process of uploading music files, and no progress bar is visible to let them know what is happening. A solution to that is already in the making with views and pecal libraries CCK files etc, just haven't got around to implementing that yet. The one man show with a list as long as his arms and legs, ha ha. Another thing that is very much wanted with a theme, is to have the same kind of functionality that the advanced forum already has when showing users online or not online, that is a cool feature that is needed. Let me know how we start this process of collaboration. I have another domain not set up on a host yet, we could possibly use this as a testing ground. Not sure what your availability is but, I probably would not be able to begin this project until after the first of the year due to other more urgent requirements for the moment. That isn't to far away though, let me know!
Thanks
Eric
Eric Take a look at the
Eric
Take a look at the swftools module to allow your users to create CCK audio nodes and play them in a playlist. It's a nightmare to get to work, but it's miles better than using audio module. The main things to look out for are that it only works properly with the latest dev release of swftools - and you need to save the player download in a sites/all/libraries folder. It is a hassle but worth it in the end. I'd recommend keeping your existing set up and playing about with it until you can get it to work.
Also have a look in your existing blocks - I have a default "Who's Online" block, I'm not sure which module it's attached to but I think it's probably just 'user' module.
swftools
I have used this in the past and all worked well but I could never get what you mentioned to work. I will look into it again though, as you have mentioned it could be the newer version has worked out issues. I agree the audio module has got to go or be redesigned. I do have over a years worth of nodes created from it and would hate to lose that if I changed to something else, not sure what to do about that part.
Eric
Hi Eric, Creating a theme and
Hi Eric,
Creating a theme and testing it wont mess up any of your site settings for modules and existing content on your site it will just theme your existing site using the new themes layout and colours etc.. When I design sites for customers I usually set-up everything they require on the site and add a few different variations of a theme I have created. They then are able to flick through the 3 or 4 themes with ease to see which is more to their requirements.
If you have a hour or so browse a few sites that you like the look of or design a sketch of the sort of layout or colours you want and email me enquiries@sa1websolutions.co.uk and I will design you a theme.
Alternatively if your unsure of where you want to go let me know and ill do some rough designs of themes and put it on temporary space on our site for you to view?
It would probably take no longer than a week to create for you and you can then just upload it to your theme folder and just enable it if you want to use it.
- Views or modules would possibly be used to show users online etc. Themes only determine layout of block and colours.
If you'd like to just have a generally chat about any of the above its no problem, drop me a line at the above email account.
Ideas
Hi sa1websolutions, I will be getting in touch with you on this theme stuff. I have tried the Nigraphics two column and it worked for around a year but I and others grew tired of it's narrow restrictions and real estate waste for content. Others on my site and some friends preferred that I went back to the original three column site I started with, the Garland theme. I still feel you are right with a complete unique design for a music site though, and it is eventually going to have to happen. I notice that the who's online is not Ajax and have read some of the arguments for it not mattering if it is not Ajax, but I feel for a viable music and media site it is necessary even if it gives just the appearance of a more living and breathing type of site feel. The site that impresses me the most is the simplistic feeling of a control center site like the reverbnation web site. This might be wishful thinking though. I have just begun reading that book on profiles, so I will probably be hitting you up for thought process and ideas before we need to design something for lay out. I have decided to stay with the purple color theme only for it's uniqueness in that no other music site has used it, not to mention I have invested lots of time and money on this color theme already with graphics and other material items.
Thanks for the input and help sa1websolutions, I will keep in touch.
Eric
Hi Hugafish
Sorry i haven't gotten back to you i've been so busy with work i haven't had a chance.
Are you still carrying on with your website? This morning i knocked up a theme using the same layout and colours you currently have on your website.
Screenshot of possible theme you could use:
http://www.sa1websolutions.co.uk/sites/default/files/Jamacast%20screensh...
Is this something you'd be interested in having? I don't have a lot of spare time but if you would like this theme and want me to modify it or add your logo etc to it let me know enquiries@sa1websolutions.co.uk
Thanks,
Viv