so this is really sad - i put up d6 for a new site, spent a bit of time hammering away at it, running all sorts of dev and beta stage modules being ported over and then realized that soooooo much of what i'm trying to do hinges on a slew of functionality that's already up and running full steam on d5 (from views and organic groups to notifications, buddylist and countless node/content utilities)
sadly, it seems that d6 came out fast and strong with an army of busy module developers in tow, many of whom are working like mad to port to d6 but for whom 'working on drupal' is a hobby and not a full time job...same goes for the new theming guidelines, there are only a fraction of the themes currently available for d6...
as a result it just starts to feel more and more like a really, really useful version of d6 won't actually be around until next winter or spring '09 - just being conservative here, modules need to be ported, then tested and debugged, many won't even roll out for months...some module devs and teams are all over the support requests, others are sometimes around, and others appear to have walked away from modules (many looking for co-maintainers, new maintainers, listed as no longer supported or not being ported and so on)
so where does this leave me - and potentially many others like me? well, i'm sitting here tonight doing a quick count on the modules available for drupal 5 versus 6: for d5, there are about 3 thousand (2,916) and for d6 there are about 400 (431) - that is **quite a difference** - then i line up modules for d5 with my site goals and requirements and i realize that there are no actual benefits to running the 'latest version' of drupal as far as my goals and needs go...
while i'd love to be patient and help to test the modules, which i'm happy to do on a test site, i'm sad to report that over the coming days i will be taking apart my dev site completely, scratching the files and database entirely and starting all over on a fresh 5.7 installation - the alternative is a potentially horrible or delayed user experience as site features fail, bug out, or just don't exist....
...but am i alone in thinking this way? anybody else been through the same exercise these past couple of months? the drupal team is awesome - and d6 is outstanding - but running a site on the core alone with a handful of interesting or useful modules unfortunately just won't cut it for my needs...
Comments
I'm betting on summer
For my live sites, I am planning on a summer 2008 upgrade to Drupal 6. I am hoping that this is enough time to allow all the modules to come to fruition (or newer and better modules to supplant the old ones). I do have a test site running Drupal 6 and I have already noticed some of the nice differences between the old and the new. I am looking forward to the upgrade, but Drupal 5 is so good, there is no reason to rush or get too impatient. On another note, I'm still waiting for the professionals at Microsoft to release Vista Service Pack 1, In the end, I think I'll take the Drupal community over Microsoft's team of professionals, especially given the recent silliness with Vista. Maybe I am simply trying to talk myself into switching to the Linux operating system?
To build a feature rich site
To build a feature rich site yes, you have to go the D5 way. D6 is in my view far from usable unless the core can cope with your feature list. I hope that the number of contributed modules for D6 will start growing fast...
We have to remember that D5 was in the same situation at some time although I seem to recall that CCK and Views WAS available with the D5.0 release (correct me if I am wrong). So we just have to wait for the D6 modules repository to catch up - maybe 6 months later.
I think that the core team should realise that modules such as CCK and Views and maybe Image (and many more) are fundamental to the success of Drupal and without these a new core release is not usable. How about coordinating the release of core with a list of "essential" contributed modules or even moving some more modules into core?
i agree - and those 'core modules' go back to user feedback
maybe there should be some kind of 'vote' from the community to elect a 'top 5' modules list for the next release - d7 - to ensure that a slew of devs can coordinate efforts to effect a hugely successful release..
right now i feel like module support forums are flooded with d6 related questions - from beta bugs to port date requests...it's overwhelming...
Be careful, and don't invest
Be careful, and don't invest too heavily in custom Drupal 5 development if you can help it. Its a matter of months before Drupal 6, and module developers will leave D5 in the dust. I switched immediately since I do so much custom dev, and d6 is a FAR superior development platform.
On another note, I'm not terribly concerned with the count of d5 vs d6 modules since 80% of modules tend to be broken crap. Quantity != Quality.
I'd take 100 useful modules over gazillions of mediocre ones any day.
--
"I'm not concerned about all hell breaking loose, but that a PART of hell will break loose... it'll be much harder to detect." - George Carlin
--
Personal: http://www.nicklewis.org
Work: http://www.onnetworks.com
--
"I'm not concerned about all hell breaking loose, but that a PART of hell will break loose... it'll be much harder to detect." - George Carlin
--
Personal: http://www.nicklewis.org
Work: http://www.zivtech.com
i hear you...but..
i completely agree - but no real views, no full cck in terms of all of the add-ons, no stable organic groups, the list goes on and on - these are the modules that make many major sites possible and without them there is no way around 'holding on' or rolling back...
D6 is far better but it is
D6 is far better but it is still on the cutting edge.
A lot of IT organizations wait for a period of time after a new version release before implementing it, if they implement the new version at all. Some believe in the every other generation, especially if there is risk of business disruption due to the migration or if migration costs are significant.
Generally, waiting for a period of time allows them to ensure that the new version is stable and some of the issues that weren't caught during testing, and there are always some because there will always be someone that uses it differently than the testing group, have been reported and resolved. It all depends on the risks your business can take and the financial impact of your decisions.
However, Drupal generally stabilizes quicker than most software. I use Drupal 6 only for testing and dev purposes at this point because there are some modules that still need to be ported and/or stabilized. However I do like it much better than 5 and will probably start using it on less complex features.
I anticipate the major gaps being closed sooner than later. I agree that a lot of the modules for 5 are not up to par. I have gone through countless modules only to discover that they are not very good for various reasons.
Determine what you need, see if they are available in 6. If they are not try to find out when they will be available and if you can see if there is anything you can do to help facilitate the D6 version. You may discover that what you need for your site will probably be available by the time you need it, unless you are in ASAP mode. If your not willing to take that risk, D5 is the answer for you.
i know, and now i'm kind of turning around on this...
my main issue is a few specific modules (like OG and CCK plugins) - these appear to be on the cusp of delivery (maybe one to two months or less) and so it would seem possible to build out the site and then roll with it...i'd had to do it all in d5 only to discover that i really can't upgrade ever because modules are discontinued for d6 or generally unsupported...it's a tough one. still brewing. d6 administration is a breeze, and really easy to get around and create site structure...hard to give that up so quickly. i've wound up not scratching the site as i'd planned to yesterday...
Downgrade
Downgrade from D6.1 to D5.7
Is it at all possible without re-keying in all the content into the new site?
don't believe so...
i saw this come up before - you're likely going to have to back up your tables and content and import into a new install BUT be aware that certain incompatible modules may have generated tables, so tread lightly...
1 option is to create the
1 option is to create the 5.7 site on a new database and then write some SQL scripts to translate from the 6.1 version to 5.7.
Or you might find it easier to manually add the content nodes and doing a C&P on the actual content itself.
Which one is better depends on how much content you have, your SQL skills and your willingness to figure out how to translate the data of one schema to another.
Cut and Paste is best
I used to be a programmer earlier and realized that I often took complex solution over mundane solution as preferred path. Then when the bug hit me wham in my face, I justified with an adventure grin!
I am now old and suspect that CTRL C abd CTRL V were next easy thing since go forth and multiply :-)
I have 160 pages and I will live through this ...
newbie problems
this is exactly where i am.. seems im always stuck in limbo.. :o(
As a newbie to drupal its totally overwhelming to figure out all the modules and Dev's and beta vesions and god knows what else. especially when you hit the front page of Drupal and it sells you the 6x version.. and you spend weeks/months staring at it trying things only to find half the "important" modules arent even updated..
so now what do i do. delete my version 6.x and go back to version 5.x .. wait for another 6months to see if version 6.x modules get updated. or by then will be on version 7.x ? (as i fear and everyone on 6.x will be left behind of dragged forward without a finished 6.x)
like i say it seems like im always in limbo.. VIEWS, CCK, PANEL, and the other important modules SHOULD of been incorporated into drupal 6.x .. . along with a decent way of using images.. I mean how many ways of using images are there ? because i still havet figured it out. exactly what i supposed to do..
welcome to drupal.. the content management system for "ppl in the know" - and for the rest of us to wonder what the hell is going on
5.x vs. 6x
Mangaforce, Views and CCK are working pretty well at the moment, although I'm sure that Views and CCK for 5.x are more stable. You might want to use Drupal 5 if your needs are immediate and you have to have panels or otherwise require a full featured production site. However, the new bells and whistles for Drupal 6 are very nice, and I am amazed at how much work the module developers put in to get things up to speed. Keep in mind, that in the past, Drupal didn't even have the modules you are waiting for. These are powerful and feature rich applications which require a lot of work, and this is the first time where both applications have needed major updates for the new version. There isn't a conspiracy here, just a great deal of Drupal goodness that needs time and attention. If you can't wait for some of the richer features, you will certainly find that things can be set up much quicker with Drupal 5. You may have a valid point that there should be some indication, even on the home page, which version of Drupal is most fully supported by modules (there might be a simple module count for each supported version on the download page).
5.x vs 6x
I run mainly 5 but I have a test site in 6.
IMHO the prudent attitude is: "Prove to me thatI need 6" rather than "Can I make 6 work with enough blood, sweat and tears?"
I think for any new technology there are only 3 reasons to make the leap.
- The new has KILLER FEATURES for your app - significant and compelling benefits OR
- Support for the old is starting to fade OR
- You just gotta have it. [A big, heartfelt thanks to all these people who suffer for the public good ;-) ]
Don't get me wrong -- 6 is a great piece of work and will RULE after maybe 18 months (Summer 2009?).
Also want to be clear there is nothing wrong with "just gotta have it". I have admiration and respect for pioneers and it is tempting, but at the end of the day I need efficiency more.
Footnote: One good indication that 6 has "passed the inflection point on the S-curve" is that you start to see a lot of modules that are available only for 6.
6.x documentation
I just started with Drupal this week and am wondering, where is there a 6.x dedicated set of documents or even solid walk throughs, I keep seeing a mix bag of info and bounce back and forth. It is quite frustrating when I find what I am looking for only to find out it is for 5 or 4 and doesn't work in 6 anymore. I am already getting deterred from Drupal due to its lack of a downloadable manual so I can 1 avoid browsing on the internet and this bouncing around.
Better than others?
One of the things that pulled me towards Drupal was the available documentation. It seemed more useful than that for other CMS's I looked into. Yes, there's not much for 6 yet, but much of the 5 docs are still relevant.
Should we create another book? Expand one that's already written? Perhaps a TOC with links to forum articles would be useful.
The packt press e-books seem OK, especially for beginners. There's another company with a more advanced v6 book in the works, I forgot their name. I haven't delved into the developer forums yet, there's probably lots of info that will be useful once translated into English :) .
We're in the same situation, beginning with a new version. I'm not in a hurry, and hopefully you're not either. My sites will grow as I learn, and the module situation resolves. I hope to get at least three years out of v6 before making another jump.