Now that I have your attention, it is important to note what drew you to this thread. First of all, you're more than likely frustrated with trying to find the information you've been looking for. Second of all, the title of the thread really means nothing, and more times that not has very little to do with the ensuing content of the rest of the thread. (I could have put "Free Hotdogs!" and it probably would have drawn the same number of people).
I've been struggling with Drupal for just over a week now, and before you think that I'm flaming Drupal, I AM NOT! I'm extremely impressed with the concept, functionality, and the simplicity of Drupal. I'm in the middle of developing some new modules for myself (and hopefully for the community). I've answered a few questions to the best of my meager abilities with Drupal. I'm trying to participate as much as I can. I want Drupal to be better. That's the bottom line.
Now, the cause of 95% of the problems people are having with Drupal has nothing to do with Drupal itself. Instead it has to do with that little box in the upper right hand corner of Drupal.org, with the ambiguously named button "Search".
If you type "adding pages", the first item you get is "phplist 2.10.1 date bug erred..." (issue) - what the heck am I supposed to do with that?
"change icon" => first item: "Weather module" (forum topic)
"change theme" => first item: "Technical discussion on Drupal themeing." (sic) (forum topic)
These are just some simple examples.
People who write search engines know this, marketting people DEFINITELY know this, and large software companies are very aware of this: The top links are the ones people see first!
I think that two things need to be done:
1) Selective search. Searching needs to be refined. You can't just return a bucket of results and expect the end user to sort it out. "Search in forums, Search in Handbooks, Search in...". This is EXTREMELY important.
2) Search results need to be refined. I have no clue how to write a good search engine. I have written some simple search engines in the past, but they were very simple. SOUNDEX? Keyword counts? I don't know how this can be improved exactly, but anything is better than just searching for words in context and spitting out anything that contains the words.
The trip_search module starts to solve this problem. I don't know why Dries or whoever hasn't put the trip_search module on Drupal.org.
Now, I know that sepeck and webchick are going to attack me somehow about this, and this is all I have to say:
sepeck:
I've read as much as I can. I'm contributing where I can. Let it be said: DRUPAL ROCKS! I LOVE IT! I just feel pity for the new people coming here (and I'm sure the traffic to Drupal has more than increased by 2 orders of magnitude over the last few months) trying find answers. I KNOW the answers are on the site. People just can't find them for one reason or another. People like to search. It's a normal part of our "internet lives". So I think that the search on here needs to be improved.
webchick:
1) I've discovered a problem.
2) I've proposed a solution (put trip_search on at least)
3) I'd do it myself, but I can't.
4) I'm very impressed with your methodical thinking. I've read enough of your posts to know that you'll want me to have a solution to the problem.
I know I'm going to get flak for this, but change is never easy.
Thanks for your time.
Comments
Know that this is an issue
And the search is being improved by none other than the fabulous Steven Wittens. Right at this moment in the Documentation/Infrastructure list, there is a call to help test his changes/patches so that the search changes can be rolled out.
If you'd like improved search, consider donating money or organizing a bounty to have it improved.
And note: sepeck and webchick are not "attacking" -- they are trying to explain how perhaps you can help. Or are perhaps quite as frustrated as you, and are contributed in the best way that *they* can. Joining the documentation list is one easy way that this can be accomplished. If you're contributing as much as you can, that's great.
Improved search (and everything else) only happens by code and/or the blood, sweat, and tears of community contribution. There has been a lot of talk lately about suggested improvements, and very little coding or increased contribution to docs, etc. This has frustrated many long time community members. Hopefully that puts things in perspective.
Front page call for help?
Thanks Boris. I'll continue to help out where I can.
I completely understand where sepeck and webchick are coming from. (I had a look at sepeck's tracker and it looks like he had a break in the afternoon sometime, but the rest of the time he has just been answering posts).
I don't want to offend. I, like others, just thirst for information.
Maybe a post on the front page to indicate that the search is being improved and that people are needed to help?
I share your frustration,
I share your frustration, but a simple way to get better search results would be to use google to search the drupal site instead of drupal.org's search. The syntax is
searchterm site:www.drupal.org
Regarding selective searching, I think drupal.org uses a lot of taxonomy under the hood, so enabling searching by taxonomy (modules, projects etc.) might be one way to improve search results. Of course, it won't be called 'search by taxonomy'- that would throw new users off.
definitely Google
This is good advice. Somewhere in between 4.5 & 4.6, Drupal stopped doing Boolean AND searches on multiple search terms and switched to OR. Until this is fixed, searching on Drupal is going to be much less effective than using Google for searches involving more than one search term.
you are not alone
I am using Drupal for 2 weeks and i am happy with my choice (i wil be "very happy" when i18n will be in the core), but the search on drupal.org makes me crazy too.
There is already a trip_search request
http://drupal.org/node/29196
but google is your best friend
http://drupal.org/node/13771
no flak
Read comment #40 of this patch thread regarding trip_search and scability.
http://drupal.org/node/28159
There are far more detailed discussions buried in the archive regarding trip_search and scalability. :)
If you want to really get your feet wet at this stage, then we're all for it. Here's the test proceedure: http://drupal.org/node/28245
No attacks, just trying to help you into the community and how to get to the resources you are looking for. Honest.
Welcome to the community.
-sp
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
I'd like to see a knowledge base
I'd like to see a knowledge base established from the replies posted. I find it frustrating after finding answers, that they are often buried 5 or 6 replies down in a series of messages, and then there might be conflicting or supplemental information in the subsequent messages. Also some of the responses are two years old and relate to previous versions, so I wonder if they are still relevant?
The knowledge base (or FAQ) would need to be maintained by someone who has experience with Drupal, in order to weed out the incorrect responses, and distill the answer to its key message.
Ok, I'm new around here too, and have no idea what mechanisms and resources are available to do this, if any? But, I have seen similar systems set up by enthusiasts for other tools, and also for Drupal already at Bryght.
there is a knowledge base
The handbooks are that knowledge base. But two problems:
So jump in and help as much as you can and encourage others to do the same :-)
Two more problems which new search might address -
I'll happily jump in as soon as I have learned enough to contribute!
Two more problems which new search might address -
1. Target the Handbook as top priority for the search results, so they get listed first.
2. PLEASE add a "Printer Friendly" link so that I can print these pages when I find something useful!
TIA
Print friendly is default
Print friendly is default trick with css style sheets. You can validate that throughout the Drupal site with File / Print preview in any semi-modern browser.
-sp
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
Printer friendly at
Printer friendly at drupal.org certainly doesn't work with my installation of IE (6.0.29) - I guess it doesn't meet your criteria - I switched to Firefox to see what you mean.
Is it my IE, or do you need to specify printer friendly except for IE?
Amen, Halleluiah and everything else
Finding answers is a huge painful task. I search and search and search, and you know, it seems like I finally move on and figure out a workaround...only to discover the answer I needed 2 weeks later while trying to solve another problem. Its enough to make you want to start the weekend REALLY early. There is no perfect solution, but certainly the trip_search looks promising. One question, why is it, every so often I do a search, and when I try to click on "page X" at the bottom of the results page, I get the last post on the first page? Its random, weird behaviour.
Wealth of knowledge
As both sepeck and cel4145 have pointed out, there is lots of information on this site. The problem is that people expect to find the answers immediately when they press the Search button, and all they get are posts in the forums, or bug and feature requests.
I have a funny feeling that once the search has been revised, people will be all over Drupal, like Dr. Phil on an estranged pregnant teenager. Wait, maybe that isn't a good analogy. ;)
Installing the cvs version now.
Wow :(
"Now, I know that sepeck and webchick are going to attack me somehow about this..."
I must really be doing something wrong, then. :( My intention was never, ever to attack anyone, and I am truly sorry if it ever came across that way. I always assume that people who bring up criticisms/complaints have Drupal's best interest at heart--otherwise, they'd likely just mutter swear words under their breath to themselves and then silently move on to another piece of software. My intent is only ever to try and help people who feel like they're merely helpless bystanders in the whole Drupal experience to discover ways in which they can try and have a direct influence on the site/community's direction, or even help bring about change themselves.
Let's take this case as an example.
I agree with every single flaw with the current search you outlined in your post. It's been discussed before about putting trip search on the site as a means of improving search results. Unfortunately, it turns out trip search is not scalable to a site the size of Drupal with literally tens of thousands of nodes. And you're right that you personally can't install modules on Drupal.org, so it's easy to feel like "Well, that's it, I tried."
As Boris mentioned, though, Steven has been toiling on an advanced search addition which adds a number of the features you're asking about here. You can read the full discussion here: http://drupal.org/node/28159
This is good news! That means that someone else has already done the DIY part, and all that's needed now are for people to install and test the code and give feedback on it!! The sooner this gets accepted into the development version of Drupal (Drupal HEAD), the sooner it will appear on the site, since Drupal.org always runs the very latest code.
Now, I realize the prospect of patches and CVS and so forth might be a bit intimidating to folks who aren't "computer people" (and even folks who are :)). I've written a handbook page with some step-by-step instructions to try and help ease this learning curve somewhat (see: http://drupal.org/node/28245).
However, it gets even better! Steven has uploaded a zip file containing a copy of Drupal HEAD with the advanced search already added!! That means if you know how to install Drupal, YOU can help to get this functionality added! Download it here:
http://acko.net/dumpx/searchpatched.zip
So now, no one has any excuses (including myself ;)). If you want to see the search improved at Drupal.org, get involved with the testing process!! See this handbook page for useful tips on how to give feedback on a patch: http://drupal.org/patch/review
A call to arms...
I think that there should be a new discussion started and have it promoted to the front page on Drupal.org with regards to the new search module and get people (that can) to help out. The primary problem is that people won't find these posts, and the people that we need to help test the new module will slip through the cracks because they won't find it (the chicken and the egg problem).
Please don't take offence, webchick. I think my word "attack" was too harsh. It should have been "help" or something like that. I think you are definitely bang on with your thinking. Thanks for all your help.
Ok...
Let's try that and see if it works. ;)
Its working!
Its working!