Hi, I'm asking for permission to delete completely my own Drupal Showcase Page but as for I can do it myself (Site Maintainer), wanted first to get your feedback on doing such a mayor action. The reason is that the Showcase Project is outdated and not existent anymore.

So please give me green on that or supply with feedback.
Thanks

Comments

Wolfflow’s picture

vm’s picture

Assigned: Wolfflow » Unassigned
Priority: Critical » Normal

pages that have comments on it shouldn't be deleted IMHO.

If the page is no longer relevant you can append the original post to state that fact.

Wolfflow’s picture

@VeryMisunderstood -

Just for me and others who will read this Issue, please can you tell us what a meaning have comments about no more existing Drupal-Showcases?

Wolfflow’s picture

@To ALL,

I really no more wonder that there is no chance at the moment that Doc-Team Members or Site Maintainers can take responsibility to help out in reviewing general OUTDATED documentation and OUTDATED Postings as review INVALID Links
as for there is a such conservative and useless unspoken policy that we should maintain just for Historic Archive purpose very useless page around on Drupal.org.

Really I wonder on that and I continue on wonder that there is no serious discussion on that behalf.
for sample I just updated one of the link above as for showing purpose on how silly and useless is continuing to
preserve such type of nodes:

http://drupal.org/node/231895

vm’s picture

If you remove a thread that you created that has comments on it, those comments are also removed and they weren't yours to remove. Situations like this seem to happen on occasion and my thinking is that those who place sites in the drupal showcase should consider these exact types of situations. If you aren't going to keep a site up than it probably shouldn't have been placed in the site showcase to begin with.

I am not in a position to make a final decision on your request, so please don't take my comments as a final decision.

I think you should wait for someone else to weigh in on this request.

killes@www.drop.org’s picture

we never remove such content in general.

Wolfflow’s picture

Sent email with query for Permission to delete Showcase and related Comments" to all comments Authors.

Comments and Authors list:

1. Finally a site with theme - lies - April 11, 2008 - 02:39

2. wolfflow site look great and - naveenpl - April 11, 2008 - 08:52

3. Nice - JohnForsythe April 11, 2008 - 10:40

Hopefully they will understand my reasons !!!

Wolfflow’s picture

@VeryMisunderstood

those who place sites in the drupal showcase should consider these exact types of situations

Really with all respect to You, but when I started with that THEME SHOWCASE SITE I was full of Joy and happiness as for installing themes and made SCREENSHOTS to be seen immediately and got frustrated and demoralized with statements like yours. I I remember very well WHO was diminishing good will to contribute on Drupal.org.

Thanks but I will not get again silent on that. We, ALL that sometime start Here are full of efforts and willing to give back to the community as for Newbies or Proof!!!

vm’s picture

I'm not sure why you are taking my opinion on this matter personally nor do I understand how it or the comment in the showcase thread you link to can be construed as "demoralizing". However, I stand by my opinion that you've quoted.

I ask you to consider the following:

As a d.o. maintainer like yourself, AFAIK, the permissions were granted to us (maintainers) so that we can keep d.o. clear of spam. The permissions granted were not given to us to remove threads deemed outdated even if they are our own threads.

I am of the opinion that if you, I or any of d.o. site maintainers begin removing threads we started and now deem outdated then any and all users of d.o. could begin to request their threads be removed by stating that they are outdated and those requests should also be granted. I don't know that this would be a good practice or standard to set. Again I remind you, this is simply my opinion on the matter at hand and certainly shouldn't be taken as an authoritative response.

Wolfflow’s picture

Hi @VeryMisunderstood apart that I really appreciate your explanation and your description about :

The permissions granted were not given to us to remove threads deemed outdated even if they are our own threads.

I did not remove anything yet without making an issue as you can see about my account logs
and this issue prove it about my respectful work and contributions as well !!!

we have:

Drupal.org site maintainers
Site maintainer's guide

There you will find paragraph: Unpublishing vs deleting of content
in there, there is no trace about your argumentations on default/standard action to take and on how to deal with OUTDATED/INVALID content.

then you will find paragraph: Document Your Actions: Queue or Revision Log

That is because I make this Issue so as to start to discuss about OWN outdated contents.
I really am just point attention to my modest experience as D.O. Site Maintainer and I wish that all others
may pay some attention on what others future D.O. Site Maintainer will surely be clear and know about:

1. If the Content is clearly OUTDATED and INVALID,
2. If the Author of the "Deleting Permission Issue" is the owner of such OUTDATED and INVALID content,
3. If he/she have send to the authors of existing comments "Deleting Permission - Emails" and he/she got the permission,

What will the D.O. Site Maintainers decide to do?

P.S. This has nothing to do with:

those who place sites in the drupal showcase should consider these exact types of situations

your statements, with all respect, leads to understand:

Hey guys do not publish SHOWCASES on D.O. before you are not a DRUPAL Professional Web designer !!!

Wolfflow’s picture

@VeryMisunderstood

- That is just a suggestion on How to effectively help people on D.O.
- maybe it will help you: Comment of LeeHunter - #28

vm’s picture

wolf with all due respect, I understand that there may be a language barrier here but you are clearly rewriting my sentence to suit you.

Killes has commented on this thread above and the words used in his comment are the same words I've recieved when I was first given extended permissions. Simply put, content isn't deleted and users aren't deleted. Spam can be deleted and user accounts should be blocked.

Good luck.

Wolfflow’s picture

Hi Kenn, I really do not like to complain as you are as I am a volunteer member here on D.O. and I do not like to be unfriendly. I may understand that you maybe have not the time or very much interest in what I am trying to focus here spending my precious time on D.O. and do my best to get support and feedback from all other Members like You and me to just try to find better solutions as to document what people like us can or cannot do here on Drupal.org.

an example : Getting Involved: It's Time to make "Drupal Org Teams - Best Practice" Section

other example on how and how long I'm actually active on D.O. can you read also Here

I really do not want to offend you but if you find my ISSUE not interesting and not suitable with your view then I'm ok if you ignore it. I excuse myself if my English writing sometime do lead to misunderstandings but I do my best not to get again in such circumstances.

Good Luck

Wolfflow’s picture

Project: Drupal.org site moderators » Documentation
Component: Content moderation » Correction/Clarification

Change this as I thing that the Doc-Team maybe a better environment to discuss this.

vm’s picture

I am not offended and I do not question your intentions. I just think rules should be applied evenly.

If maintainers can delete content deemed outdated, other users who are not maintainers should be able to request content to be deleted and that action in and of itself could create a lot of work for maintainers.

however, and as I've consistently stated throughout this thread, I am not an authority on this. I cannot give nor not give permission. I'm merely playing devils advocate. To me, it seems this type of action would open a pandoras box. In past when users asked to have accounts deleted and content removed those requests were denied. When a user wants their account blocked this request is usually granted but their content remains part of d.o.

Personally, I don't know from whom permission for this action would come from.

add1sun’s picture

Status: Active » Closed (won't fix)

@Wolfflow, as VeryMisunderstood and killes have both pointed out, it is general d.o policy to *not* delete content, *especially* forum posts, unless they are spam. I'm going to mark this won't fix because it would be inappropriate to delete the post. It is fine the way it is and I see no need to start accusing VeryMisunderstood for simply expressing our policy. Please do not take it personally and do not attack others out of frustration. I'm sure if it is a language misunderstanding but he has said *nothing* in this thread that is offensive or attacking.

Wolfflow’s picture

Status: Closed (won't fix) » Active

Kenn, I'm not questioning your statements, again I want to focus that there are in fact interest in updating content that leads to nowhere when links are not more valid. I just pickup an example of my own old "SHOWCASE" as to gain attention on this behalf that might happen to other newbies in their beginning experience with Drupal and Drupal Site.

I'm not asking here for any deleting rights, because I already have those. My efforts to find a compromise on how to deal in such situations may be naive and less important, but I'm sure there is not that much work if others that messed up with their "SHOWCASE" Drupal site will ask for updating or even deleting is all comment Authors have no oppositions.

I hope I was clear this time, if not please ask me again.

Wolfflow’s picture

Hi Berry, really It's very difficult for me to explain but there are no written policy on Drupal.org that state that you cannot have even the right to ask to delete own information that leads to nowhere and reader may have the right to get upset about. I will continue to put my efforts that we need a clear documentation on how to deal in similar cases I'm am aware of. It like really that a simple query to update one's own showcase page leads to such an impossible to find compromise! Really this is not the best way on how to confront this situation.

gpk’s picture

I have sympathy with all the different points of view expressed in this thread, it's actually a difficult area to do with management/maintenance and longevity of information. And if you consider a specific question (such as deleting the particular showcase page) you get a different answer compared with considering the general question. Also there are different priorities .. how important is it to review and deal with old content and how important is it for uniform policies to be applied across the site. What is important to one person will be low priority for someone else. Maybe we need simply to the ability to mark pages "outdated", something like can already be done for handbook pages.

Wolfflow’s picture

Status: Active » Closed (works as designed)

I add a comment to my own to update posting so as to finish yet this discussion because I see there is no interest in trying to find a compromise on my asking on support on this matter on D.O.

Text I will post on my own posting despite waht kind of type it is until the question may be more actual later on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: This Post is not anymore valid. I'm sorry I cannot delete this post due to ongoing discussion on how to deal with

1. OLD
2. OUTDATED
3. INVALID LINKS
4. REQUEST TO UPDATE OWN OLD POSTING, COMMENTS, SHOWCASES etc.

for more information see: http://drupal.org/node/331559
add1sun’s picture

Project: Documentation » Drupal.org site moderators
Component: Correction/Clarification » Content moderation
Status: Closed (works as designed) » Active

I get what you are saying but seriously, *forums* are dated content by their nature. I honestly feel that paying much mind to it, much less coming up with flags or systems to deal with outdated forum posts, is an effort in futility and waste of time. We have much more important and useful things to spend our energy and time on. Now, I'm not much of a forum user, beyond answering the occasional question so maybe you can solicit feedback from the more active forum admins, like Michelle, or, um, VeryMisunderstood, since they already spend a lot of time dealing with the forums.

I'm going to move this back to webmasters queue because this is not about documentation but about the site's forums.

add1sun’s picture

Status: Active » Closed (works as designed)
Wolfflow’s picture

I do care of my OWN outdated or invalid comments, post, issue etc. and it's my right I think, but I understand priority. Thanks to point that out Barry !

michelle’s picture

Why not simply remove the links? I can understand not deleting whole threads but if the links are no longer valid, why not just delete those and leave a note that the site is no longer available?

Michelle

vm’s picture

He did in the thread that contained links in the showcase thread which I thought would solve the issue too. What I gather is that this was not satisfactory enough.

Wolfflow’s picture

I'm sorry if my point of view create such negative and also waste of time but I cannot continue to try to understand that on Drupal.org there is no similar politic of dealing with outdated and invalid content as it exist on wikipedia.

Of course we are sure not that big but I learned to appreciate the care and the affection and dedication of mostly the majority of our members that we present as much as clean documentation. I cannot continue to cope with useless showcases and also with so many old post without answers all around.

I really do like to continue to contribute but I cannot stand to see that if I go to my own account >> recent post >> my recent post - I cannot filter out old subscriptions, that I'm not any more interested in, I cannot go to my own misspelled posting and see old links and all my old useless posting and not have a chance to correct it. My understandings of correction is also that a complete post could also take in consideration to delete with all the comments.

I really see and understand that if my own post contains valuable content such as code or step by step support it can be incorporate in the Handbook, but the posting will be still be there as you all say for "Historic" purposes ?!

Ok I am aware that at the moment I'm the only one who have this kind of opinion and therefor I will not anymore continue to poke on it. I respect this state of fact on Drupal.org and have to take my own decisions about.

Thanks to all

gábor hojtsy’s picture

Drupal.org is not an edited encyclopedia like wikipedia. If you did not took enough care to post stuff, when you did, it will be kept as-is.

Wolfflow’s picture

Thanks Gabor, that is exactly because I'm rethinking my participation on Drupal.org at the moment.
I do not like this Kind of policies.

by the way you should update the http://drupal.org/mailing-lists page and add some informations also about how to
unsubscribe for those who do misstates at the beginning of their experience on Drupal.org and do only wnat not to continue to stress a machine ;-)

Kind Regards

michelle’s picture

Title: Ask for permission on deleting » Rethinking our "no deletion" policy
Status: Closed (works as designed) » Active

Why do we care so much about the old content? I realize this is the policy to not delete anything but rather than just saying that's how it is and setting it by design, why not talk about it? It's obviously bothering a valuable contributor. So how about some discussion. Other than "that how we've always done it" is there any reason? I've seen this come up time and time again. People are not allowed to delete their accounts, not allowed to delete their content. Sure, if there's _valuable_ information in the comments like where someone took the time to explain how to do something, we should leave that. But if someone posts a site in the showcase forum and gets a couple of "nice site" comments, what is the harm in deleting that post if the author asks? Drupal.org is not short of content. Deleting a few posts here and there isn't going to drastically affect our SEO.

To me, it seems the main reason is lack of manpower. The people with the rights don't want to be constantly fielding delete requests. But here we have a maintainer who feels strongly about it. Perhaps he'd be willing to step up and be in charge of this? If so, maybe we need to rethink our policy and allow deletions in the case where it's not removing valuable and currently relevent information. Sure, it's a judgement call, but I don't think it would need to be made often. I think most people are happy to just leave their posts there even when they've gotten their information and moved on. It's not like the webmaster's queue is bombarded with delete requests now and I don't think it would skyrocket if we started honoring them.

Michelle

gábor hojtsy’s picture

What's not valuable to you might be valuable to others.

Example 1: If traces of a user are removed, then valuable information (whether positive or negative) goes into the trashbin when for example, that user applies for co-maintainership for a module.

Example 2: Someone asks a question the hundredth time. It is the same stupid question asked for 99 times already. It gets a quick answer and is treated useless. However, the wording of the question, its context (eg. where it was asked, when it was asked, etc) is different then others, so it will show up when you word your search query that way. Eg. I could search for Drupal modules, plugins, extensions, etc. While the "official page" says modules, I might not know the name right away.

Example 3: Although you might think it is the last useless crap, others might link to a mislead explanation in a forum post, since it apparently solves their problem. It might open up new holes or issues, but it does solve a problem, so it is quickly picked up. I've seen this bazillion times in project issues. Many are not afraid of quick and dirty solutions.

Example 4: Editing or removing project issues and follow ups is something some more privileged people are keen to do. I've seen users deleting their comment contents because they realize they said "stupid" things. It is just plain annoying since you got your email notifications already with the "stupid" comment, and the website shows different content to what you got by email. You base a follow up on what you read in your email, not reading all follow ups again, and you are already out of date.

Drupal.org is not an encyclopedia where you can/should go back and edit. I am glad my original contributions 5 years 5 weeks ago (currently at http://drupal.org/user/4166/track?page=113) are available unedited.

All-in-all, I think that what constitutes useless crap is very hard to define and would indeed take lots of manpower to discuss in each case. Instead the answer I have seen in similar communities is that the author licensed the content entered into the website under the open license the website is using and therefore the website maintainers have the right to keep the content under that same license. I am not entirely clear on what license Drupal.org is using for user entered content, such as this comment.

Wolfflow’s picture

Title: Rethinking our "no deletion" policy » Ask for permission on deleting
Status: Active » Closed (works as designed)

@gpk - I thank you very much for your "chep in" and allow me to say that this is the first constructive comment posted in this Thread:

Maybe we need simply to the ability to mark pages "outdated", something like can already be done for handbook pages.

I just wanted to start to discuss this aspect from the point of view of a Newbie and I did follow the default policies on start proposing a discussion on something that I might consider important for the Drupal.org Community.

I cannot have sympathy with generalizing answers that do only underline the state of facts about content management on Drupal.org.

I really understand mostly all of you that are involved with a lot of staff that is really more important that my simple task to take care of all of those that will be newbies in future and will look 1. to find the right documentation and 2. to get clear advises and informations on how to deal with such type of simple tasks.

Those task that I mostly spoke and approach during my membership on Drupal.org I think that have also something with copyrights matters. But I did not mean it in that extremely case , I just mean it as a simple wish for ever member that start over on Drupal.org to have the possibility to correct his errors as to show up a better level of knowledge and contribution during his period of membership in this Community.

I have approach the field for "Terminology" with the same passionate dedication and I am proud that exactly this kind of approch lead myself to be recognized from the leaders of this community as a good contributor.

I was happy to start to collect all not very simple to understand expressions and terms from the knowledge level on a no-native English and put in in the "Common Terminology" on Drupal.org. I started over to build some summary pages in form of tables as to have another additionally way to find the right documentation on Drupal.org

I'm writing all this maybe because I'm much more sensitive and do not understand answers like @Kenn and @Gerhard and finally @Gabor @Barry that just state what I already know. I beg your pardon if it is so difficult to interpret my Issue, and I'm aware of that because I do not get really very much attention, but I can live with it, it's my own fault and problem.

But when I see that many of you do continue to answer me in a very superficial way I get frustrated. I'm really not a member of just yesterday but I'm here about 2 years and very active now from August this year.

Again
Thanks for your attention
Kind Regards

Wolfflow’s picture

shortly - of course my comment #32 do not refer to comments #30 #31 #20 #5 #25 #16

Wolfflow’s picture

another shortly - maybe I would have to make a new issue - if so please forgive me temporary - but as for my understanding it can be part of this topic:

Question: If I have postings where I just did comment only with subscribe do I have the right to ask for deleting my own Subscribe comment so as to have less active issue in my my Recent posts ?

Wolfflow’s picture

It just came me in mind a wonderful metaphor to this issue:

Drupal.org is like a ship and the Captain and his staff of subordinate wants to leave to deliver promoting, distributing and communicating about Drupal in many other places. As it comes to leave the port the Commander say to not forget to leave the waste on the dock.

After more the 7 years the ship "Drupal.org" is still docking because nobody wants to throw the waste because it does not know how and where it should be store.

Many passengers want also throw their own personal waste but their are not allowed to do so.

I leave you the interpretation!
Have Fun
;-)