I wonder, why Drupal is focusing on the forum module?
And I wonder even more, why it is shipped with core?
I think no-one contradicts, that this module can't even hold a candle to "real"/mature forums, like phpBB, FluxBB & Co. Means: if someone wants to start/implement a "real" (big) forum inside of his Drupal website, this forum module is no alternative to mature forum software - and comes not even near it.
The other use case would be a "small" forum - where a big forum software would be overkill. Gimme a forum, quickly - I just need it for this special situation, only for some days, etc. - and I think that would be a perfect use case for a contributed module.
We should concentrate on creating great and up to date bridges to FLOSS forum software. The forum software communites do their job in creating forum software. The Drupal community does it's job in creating a CMS/framework.
Why does drupal.org uses this forum as discussion forums (it makes sense for the issue tracker, though)? Only because of eating it's own dog food?
This forum module breaks with every expectations "normal" users have with using a forum. All mature forum software can be compared easily - they share a basic set of features, which are the same everywhere. But when such users are confrontated with - for example - this forum here at drupal.org ... wush ... it's different. It's hard. It's (I don't know the correct translated word, so I'll post several I found): grueling, straining, uphill. It's no joy to use this forum. It's a little torture/pain to use it, but you "have to" (you want to).
Even for me - and I was a massive forum user and followed/tested & used several FLOSS forum projects - it was kind of a challenge to get used with drupal.orgs forum - and it still is. And it still is no fun to use.
I think drupal.org would really profiteer by using a real forum software. The new users would benefit from it. Are there any plans?
Comments
While I do see the
While I do see the advantages of using other Forum software like phpBB, which I use on my site, there are a number of issues which make me wish that I could use Drupal's built-in forum.
One issue is attachments - my users need to post pictures with their posts which end up residing in phpBB's files structure and cannot be easily linked to Drupal nodes. Also, my users are used to using phpBB's internal messaging system.
Another issue is moving information from the Forums to Drupal and vice versa. There are posts which would be useful to have as nodes, for example.
Eric
__________
Eric Aitala - f1m@f1m.com
The Formula 1 Modeling Website
www.f1m.com
__________
Eric Aitala - ema13@psu.edu
Penn State
224b8605113373e086cb27708ff301ba18ce394db1996e7e22928e4555e0d20b1b6cecc7f67c9bd9e536cb915779c485
And personally I wonder why
And personally I wonder why people ever bother with bridges.
Bridges bring with them a whole host of issues and are never quite as good as an integrated module. Core forum + advanced_forum and some of the other contributed modules Michelle recommends gets you probably 95-99% of the functionality of a standalone forum.
Besides the advantage of not having to learn another flavor of php implementation, nothing says "i'm a n00b and I don't know what I'm doing" quite so vociferously as being jolted into a completely non integrated forum application after clicking "forum" from a beautifully themed website. And lets face it, most people using bridges never bother to theme it properly.
There's nothing uglier and less professional than 'yet another garland site' except for 'yet another garland site that links to a phpbb forum', lol.
===
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." - Lao Tzu
"God helps those who help themselves." - Ben Franklin
"Search is your best friend." - Worldfallz
Some thoughts
I posted my thoughts on this the other day (and only some, but not many, have been as crazy about the figuring out Drupal + forums as I have haha):
http://drupal.org/node/351128#comment-1170640
Though I'm a proponent now of core Drupal forums, augmented by Advanced Forum module, and whichever contributed add-ons provide the features you need (with which most if not all of the features of a standalone forum can be reproduced), there's certainly room for improvement. Namely in the area of performance there are a few MySQL queries that are very painful to a large forum unless special caching methods are used (but a small, average, to medium size forum won't likely be badly affected). Here's my analysis: http://drupal.org/node/314443 (the solution will require a few changes to Drupal core).
Other than that I could name a few features I'd really like to see in the forum that I don't think have an analog in Drupal yet (e.g. one off the top of my head, would be a "search within this thread" feature, which I use often on other forums), but not so many that I'd want to go through the trouble (believe me I've tried in the past, it's not worth it) of using a forum bridge. I mean clearly with Advanced Forum it can be made to look convincingly like one of the popular forum apps. Aside from the "default look" which features do you find missing that you cannot reproduce with Drupal? (speaking of how forums look... I don't often see a standalone forum that actually looks "good" either, or the height of its customization is which gradient bar they use for the forum containers).
The feature that drupal.org would benefit most from would be subscriptions to threads (which I'm hoping will be a feature of the new upcoming drupal.org, since modules for the functionality do exist). But switching to a 3rd party forum? No, never.
-- David
davidnewkerk.com | absolutecross.com
View my Drupal lessons & guides
The core Drupal forum exists
The core Drupal forum exists for good reasons, which external forums don't cover:
- Integration and reuse of content (not only users, as bridges do).
- Applicability of all Drupal tools for managing content. A forum's content does not become "a special case".
One of the reasons this Drupal forum is somehow "bare bones" is the minimalist design philosophy of the current drupal.org design. It does not need to be so. See, for example, another drupal forum:
http://www.ubercart.org/forum
http://www.ubercart.org/forum/general_discussion/164/using_flatforum_her...
These days there are more tools available for enhancing a drupal forum than the time that the uc forum was designed:
http://drupal.org/project/advanced_forum
http://drupal.org/node/227121
That does not mean that the core drupal forum is best for everyone. A non-technical webmaster who doesn't know and doesn't want to know what parts a forum is made of, but just wants the parts to be there in 30 minutes, all tested and familiar to forum users, should probably use dedicated forum software for a forum, and maybe drupal for a separate blog or an e-shop.
I should also mention that there are more loose ways to reuse external content in Drupal, by getting RSS feeds and importing them to Drupal nodes (http://drupal.org/project/feedapi).
IMO, Drupal is right to
IMO, Drupal is right to de-emphasise the importance of forums. Older, traditional websites are forum-centric; that's the main place the users go to interact with the site and each other. They are also 'section-centric'; users go to the news section for news, articles section for articles, gallery section for pictures, etc, each section with its own specialised scripts managing its specific functions.
Drupal, like many web2.0 sites, has made an attempt to retreat from that, instead moving towards making the entire site interactive - each piece of content becomes a place for commenting, upload/download, media, etc.
I was shocked when I first tried out drupal, that it didn't have a bridge or its own forum with bells and whistles, because I was so used to using them. But now understanding a bit more about drupal philosophy I can see why its forum is so basic; with the emphasis on commenting, a traditional forum is not needed.
What does need to get sorted out, if that's the direction drupal is committed to, is not so much adding bells and whistles to the forum, but improving the overall ability of users to manage their own content, such as having content delivered to their profile page and/or blocks, subscriptions to forum threads and node comments, and managing their uploads and media.
well i think you are wrong,
well i think you are wrong, as the guy above you mentioned, with a "forum" in core, it makes all content manageable thru taxonomy and all other drupal tools. All the drupal forums did was present the list in a forum-like manner, the same way a book page is a basic drupal node with theming to look like a book.
what drupal needs is better commenting....more display options like OUTLINE, LINEAR+ , threaded or nonthreaded etc
Aren't we saying the same
Aren't we saying the same thing? That Drupal should continue to move away from including a large, feature-rich forum, and concentrate on developing the commenting system and management of user content? Whereas the OP wants drupal to be much more forum-centric, like all the other CMS which have bridges for phpbb, vbulletin and smf?
The one thing the forum desperately needs though, is a way of managing subscriptions to threads.
The 'my recent posts' list is just awful.
whats wrong with this forum
whats wrong with this forum package...it s fine and uncluttered.....
i would like to see more effort in the comments sections like more AJAX on replies, more display options like OUTLINE and Linear. some more intergration of ratings, avatar, sig's but really thats just overkill
Sufficient for my needs
I'm working on an intranet for a medium-sized company, and the core forums are PERFECT for our purposes. We don't need all the features of a full forum application; all we need are threaded posts. And with the addition of Messaging and Notifications, the forum module fits our situation perfectly! I, for one, am thankful it's not overbloated like 'real' forum software.
Only reason i choose Drupal!
Only reason i choose Drupal in the first place is forum module in the core. Plus it is a great CMS with a loot of features!
I would use some other forum software + some CMS but to be dependant on 3d party people making bridges betwen platforms? NO THANKS!!!
Than i reather have just forum And nothing else. And maybee some small portal like front page layout.
I modified my forum and it has everything i need. Avatar support, signature support, buttons for easy input, i can give permissions to people to moderate, private messages. picture upload and thumbnail creation... It lacks media support but Drupal 7 if i am correct will put more effort on media support.
The only thing i miss in my forum is hotlinking picture module or solution that handles picture hotlinking. I just can't and won't give HTML tags permission for handling pictures to everyone.
But people i trust can make articles, forum topics, post pictures and hotlink pictures any youtube videos for example if they want.
I hope 3 thing forum module in Drupal will have soon:
-picture hotlinking support and video like youtube hotlinkig suport for everyone not just trusted users.
-quote button in flat mode forum layout (but quote module is preatty damn good so these isn't something i can't have right now)
-a bit more of batch support functions for admin or moderators.
But tracker and forum in Drupal is just the best. I don't agree it is rubbish. It's great and i hope it will improve with more options in every new release!
Sheesh
I think whatever you used to translate had exaggerate mode on. Drupal.org's forums are a little dull but "torture"? Good grief.
"I think no-one contradicts, that this module can't even hold a candle to "real"/mature forums"
It isn't meant to. Core forum is a foundation that gets built on just like Drupal itself. Very few sites run just core Drupal with no contributed modules. And a site that wants a fully functional forum shouldn't expect to get it just with core forum.
There are many advantages to using Drupal's forums that have already been mentioned by other folks so I'll just second them here.
"I think drupal.org would really profiteer by using a real forum software. The new users would benefit from it. Are there any plans?"
No, there isn't, because drupal.org is already using "real forum software".
Michelle
--------------------------------------
See my Drupal articles and tutorials or come check out life in the Coulee Region.