By heine on

As you probably read in some posts on the forum RNGSoft claims to have a proprietary CMS they call Net Gate (looks awfully similar to Drupal as noted in some threads).

My interest spiked, I went to see for myself; everything looked very similar to Drupal, but I could not find any mention of Drupal itself. That is until I deleted all the demo content...(I know, shame on me). Here's the screenshot.

Comments

webchick’s picture

webchick
she/they
Primary language English
Location Vancouver 🇨🇦
commented

Compare the marketing text between RNGsoft .com and http://refreshsoftware.com/. He even forgot to take out the bits about the CMS being written in Java. :P~

The favicon from RNGsoft .com looks a bit familiar too. Hm. ;)

heine’s picture

heine commented

J2EE + a lot of marketese + druplicon... Very strange mix.

BTW, he deleted the favicon a while ago & you have to mail Alkemade when you want to administer the demo site.

*shakes head*

Frans@RNGsoft.com’s picture

Frans@RNGsoft.com commented

As of recent, we have come under scrutiny from the Drupal community about some information on this site. I want to apologize profusely for the misdirection we may have created that this software is our own. the netGate software is based on the Drupal codebase, which is covered under the GNU Public License, and the extended modules created by RNGSoft are licensed under the LGPL. We, in no way, are intending to defraud our customers, the Drupal community, or any one else. My sincerest apologies also go out to Dries, as it is his hard work that made drupal possible.

netGate is a Drupal product. What we are selling is not the software, it is the service of turning a great software into a site for anyone who needs it, in collection with hosting, bandwidth and technical support.

bonobo’s picture

bonobo commented

First off, please believe me when I tell you that I am offering this advice/assessment from the perspective of someone who feels for the difficult situation you are in.

I strongly advise you to take your site offline -- or, at the very least, set your homepage to your contact page -- while you do a complete rewrite.

Virtually every page of your site contains text lifted from other sites. I googled these lines from your page on SEO:

optimize and improve search engine results with ranking and promotion advice, placement hints, tips, and clues

This led me to this site: http://www.bruceclay.com/web_rank.htm
In the first paragraph, you will find the exact same text.

IMO, you should shut down your site while you remove all borrowed text. Anything short of this, and you run the risk of sending the message that you don't take this seriously.

bonobo

-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers

-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com

Frans@RNGsoft.com’s picture

Frans@RNGsoft.com commented

We take this very seriously.

Stay tuned.

saerdna’s picture

saerdna commented

http://demo.rngsoft.com/CHANGELOG.txt

a fairy whispered into my ear this is going getting posted at slashdot. not the url above but the story about rngsoft.

heine’s picture

heine commented

I was just selecting section & topic ...

morbus iff’s picture

morbus iff
they/them
commented

Someone submitted it. Which isn't to say that someone else shouldn't, to indicate grande interest and chuckly humor ;)

http://www.disobey.com/

saerdna’s picture

saerdna commented

na i didnt. someone on the irc channel.

rbrooks00’s picture

rbrooks00 commented

I presume that in addition to being incredibly poor form this violates the drupal license agreement too right?

killes@www.drop.org’s picture

killes@www.drop.org commented

Sure it does. If you are distributing Drupal or parts of it under a non-GPL compatible licence, then you are eligible for some court action.
--
Drupal services
My Drupal services

--
Drupal services
My Drupal services

pfaocle’s picture

pfaocle
He/Him
Primary language English
commented

From http://demo.rngsoft.com/...

This is RNGsoft's new Content Management System. Utilizing the Drupal foundation...

Looks god-awful anyway ;)

---
paul byrne
paul.leafish.co.uk/ | www.leafish.co.uk/

---
Paul Byrne
pfaocle.co.uk | CTI digital

sepeck’s picture

sepeck commented

It may have just been an oversite from a company that is young and trying very hard to build stuff out. Perhaps they are new to Open Source services/support model. Let's not get to involved with speculations and thinking the worst until they have a chance to respond/update stuff. :)

I mean, they are posting in Drupal.org forums, so no need to use a hammer when a conversation will suffice.

-sp
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide

nathandigriz’s picture

nathandigriz commented

I believe everyone is suspect of something that is not a crime. I also think chx was unfair in locking the threads before getting clarification.

Why? Because There is nothing saying that this is a downloadable software service. If they keep the software on their own servers and offer hosting services they are not in violation of anything. At this point the very least they might be guilty of is being in competetion with Bryght.com.

I can't find anything in the GPL that says that software cannot be labeled or advertised under a company name. If they deliver to the client with the GPL intact or keep it as a hosting service then they should be within the guidelines. If

All Software, Information and Code is © 2005 RNG Software, Inc., All Rights Reserved.

is what is in question then a friendly email might have been a better choice than alienating and locking out someone for being enterprising or maybe just making a "beta" mistake.

bonobo’s picture

bonobo commented

While this could be a mistake, it is a pretty serious miscue. The following text is posted on the RNGSoft site: http://rngsoft.com/?q=node/13

We offer many Modules for your site as upgrades to a standard package.

***stuff deleted***
We have several content types that can be added into the site. The process is as easy as point and click.

You will find many types of content at your disposal. These items are:

* book page
A book is a collaborative writing effort: users can collaborate writing the pages of the book, positioning the pages in the right order, and reviewing or modifying pages previously written. So when you have some information to share or when you read a page of the book and you didn't like it, or if you think a certain page could have been written better, you can do something about it.

* forum topic
A forum is a threaded discussion, enabling users to communicate about a particular topic.

* page
If you want to add a static page, like a contact page or an about page, use a page.

* personal blog entry
A blog is a regularly updated journal or diary made up of individual posts shown in reversed chronological order. A blog is tightly coupled to the author so each user will have his 'own' blog.

* poll
A poll is a multiple-choice question which visitors can vote on.

* story
Stories are articles in their simplest form: they have a title, a teaser and a body, but can be extended by other modules. The teaser is part of the body too. Stories may be used as a personal blog or for news articles.

***other stuff deleted***

All Software, Information and Code is © 2005 RNG Software, Inc., All Rights Reserved.

This text looks very familiar. And, just below the content type descriptions that are plagiarized directly from Drupal's documentation, you have a copyright claiming ownership of the "information" on the site -- information that is lifted verbatim from Drupal.

This is, at best, horribly poor judgement. At worst, it is a deliberate attempt to deceive.

This company does NOT say they are setting up a Drupal hosting service. Their web site implies that they own the software they are providing. They crib their documentation from the Drupal documentation without acknowledging Drupal as the source. While the motivation is not clear, there is no getting around that this is NOT okay.

Cheers,

bonobo
-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers

-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com

nathandigriz’s picture

nathandigriz commented

I get the reasoning.

I just don't agree with the handling nor the "angry mob" mentality. I still believe an email (or post) explaining that the text is covered under the Creative Commons Share Alike or GPL would have been more appropriate.

After all they may appreciate the helpful nudge in the right direction (more than a shaking fist in the face) and contribute back code, funding and possibly advertising. Soft and smiling gets more done and is easier than the alternatives.

chx’s picture

chx commented

Read the right column of their mainpage, 'cos that's not the ripoff from the Java CMS. "Our custom netGate CMS (Content Management System)" -- it's called Drupal and it's not rng's.

Even if they would sell a greatly enhanced version of Drupal, anyone who buys a copy could post the source code online, so asking for money is not a good idea.

They are free to open a new topic on drupal.org I just put a lock on those threads to prevent flame war and will keep a very close eye if they post again.
--
Read my developer blog on Drupal4hu.

--
Drupal development: making the world better, one patch at a time. | A bedroom without a teddy is like a face without a smile.

nathandigriz’s picture

nathandigriz commented

Reasonable,

I'm cool with that. :)

cel4145’s picture

cel4145 commented

Really, it's silly not to mention Drupal from a marketing perspective. Makes more sense to capitalize on Drupal's popularity and sell themselves as providing customized installations, development, training, and support.

cel4145’s picture

cel4145 commented

I was thinking it might be advantageous to have people blog this post and link to the title (perhaps we should change the title to RNGSoft and Drupal?) so that it shows up in Google searches for RNGSoft. In checking Google, I found this job advertisement on craigslist. I wonder if they are going to tell the potential employees that they didn't actually develop this software? LOL

Frans@RNGsoft.com’s picture

Frans@RNGsoft.com commented

The last thing we ever wanted to do was upset the community of people that we feel are part of the best open source community in the world.
We are a young company and clearly have made some mistakes, but please know that we are not trying to do anything wrong. That is why I went to the Drupal community for help, as well as fired our content writer for copying other sites, I really thought it was original content.
Let me say that we are selling a service of creating websites and portals and provide development, customized installations, training, and support, not selling the Drupal source code as our own.
I am now working on fixing all the things we did wrong. Please feel free to email me how I can improve our ‘verbiage’ to comply with your community.

sepeck’s picture

sepeck commented

As I said above, you seemed a new company that was working to build out. As with all companies and communities these things happen. People tend to react with the speed of the Internet. :)

I only do this as a serious hobby, so will not suggest alternative phrasings myself.

In the meantime, your response indicates that you intend to deal responsibly with the situation. There are a few other companies out there providing services so more companies doing so is a 'good thing' and healthy for Drupal as a whole and Developers skilled and familier with Drupal specifically.

Welcome to the community. May your continued participation be less exciting. :)

-sp
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide

chx’s picture

chx commented

I have unlocked your threads -- let's see what happens.

I saw your demo's admin screens and so did others and we have not seen anything original.

So please prove what you say. The easiest is to participate with the community -- share your code. You won't lose business, because you provide development, installation etc. If you do not have your own code -- not a problem! Advertise on your site that you are a Drupal consultancy house and sell these services for Drupal. There are many who do that, including myself. We had a good chuckle on the happenings so far, and your reputation will only grow by admitting any wrong doing and doing now it right.

Also we saw the handbook stolen. Yes, stolen, because it was lacking the CC license. Now you made the book pages access denied but that does not make this fact disappear.

--
Drupal development: making the world better, one patch at a time. | A bedroom without a teddy is like a face without a smile.

Frans@RNGsoft.com’s picture

Frans@RNGsoft.com commented

I have no intentions of stealing anything. I will put up the CC license on the handbook. I also changed the 'copywrite verbiage' on the bottom of the corporate site. I stated on the demo site that we are utilizing 'Drupal as our foundation'. Please let me know other items you see that offend the community. I will continue to make what is wrong, right.
Thanks, Frans

bonobo’s picture

bonobo commented

but I also want to understand.

Also, I don't claim to speak for the community, but only as one member of it.

On your web site page titled "Our Products" (http://rngsoft.com/products), it says:

RNGsoft's software is called netGate CMS®. This propietary software is what WE utilize when building your site.

Have you developed another CMS? Or, does this refer to Drupal?

There are other pages on your site with similarly unclear references.

Your homepage is also strikingly similar to (as pointed out above) http://refreshsoftware.com/

When part of your site contains borrowed/stolen content, it raises the question of if/where the borrowing stops, and your original creations begin.

I'm sorry this whole thing has exploded, and I imagine there has been some stress within your company about this. But, based on your web site, it is not clear if there are two products (netGate CMS and Drupal) or one product (Drupal repackaged as netGate CMS).

I would recommend going over your site and removing any documentation/language that is not original. As it stands, there are still many places that are very similar to Drupal documentation, and many feature descriptions that appear to describe Drupal. When you use text from other sources on your web site without crediting the original author, you appear to be claiming it as your own.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not clear if you are selling customized Drupal installs, a separate product (netGate CMS), or both. And, as your web site currently reads, the documentation does not help clarify this.

I hope this is helpful.

Cheers,

bonobo

-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers

-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com

heine’s picture

heine commented

What is your Web site saying about you? A Web site is more than just a page on the Internet—it is your company’s representative, and it is often the first contact a client has with your company. You only have one chance to make a good first impression; on the Internet, this means you have literally seconds to convey your organization’s message. The elements of your Web design (such as graphic design, e-commerce functionality, multimedia and flash animation) as well as your Web content are critical to that first and lasting impression.

Emphasis added. Frans, this must be familiar to you because I copy&pasted it from rngsoft.com.

My advice to you; take your website offline until you finish a major rewrite. There's still copyrighted content from refreshsoftware.com and you'll get even more problems when the Processdata people find out you copied their content too. Taking the infringing content offline will at least show some good intent. (On an other note, taking the content offline will allow you to rigorously trim inane phrases such as: 'way cool!')

Anyway, all this will be very damaging for your business and personal reputation. Google, Yahoo & MSN don't forget quickly (rngsoft.com just got into the google cache today), regardless what the amorfous 'drupal community' may think of you and your company.

cel4145’s picture

cel4145 commented

Why RNGSoft

Why Jabil

I wouldn't be surprised to find that almost all of the content on the site is taken from somewhere else.

bonobo’s picture

bonobo commented

http://rngsoft.com/siteplanning

looks a lot like

this.

Ouch.
-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers

-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com

Frans@RNGsoft.com’s picture

Frans@RNGsoft.com commented

That link was the first one i noticed and took down yesterday.

cel4145’s picture

cel4145 commented

Gotta delete the pages, too. They are still on the Internet and most likely in Google's cache.

bonobo’s picture

bonobo commented

what Heine quoted, I get the following site:

http://www.wynn2.com/

Go about halfway down the page, and you will see some familiar text.

It's under the section "What is your web site saying about you"

Frans, Heine is right. Pull your entire site offline, and redesign the whole thing from the ground up. If you keep the current version of your site live, you run the very real risk of creating the impression that you willingly participated in stealing content from other people's sites.

If you pull your site down and do a complete redesign, you will send a clear message that you care about doing the right thing.

bonobo

-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers

-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com

Frans@RNGsoft.com’s picture

Frans@RNGsoft.com commented

I fired our content writer and have begun to delete all copied material from the site. I hope to have ALL original content on the site before the end of this weekend.

Thanks for your help.

rbrooks00’s picture

rbrooks00 commented

I think you need to seriously rethink the message of your site/business in addition to making sure the content isn't plagarized.

It seems to me that you are offering 2 things:
- Hosting for drupal web sites
- Services/Design for drupal web sites

You should clearly state that is what you are offering and not try to dress it up and make it appear that you are selling folks a CMS which they can download for free at Drupal. Rebranding it as "netGate CMS" and using the registered or copyright marks is disengenious at best and a violation of the drupal license agreement at worst.

It is ok to sell services, web design, hosting, consulting, etc but you can't sell the product because it isn't yours to sell. Unless you have custom modules you are charging people for you can't legally sell the product and even then it would have to be clear they are paying for the custom modules and services and NOT drupal.

In addition to the content re-write I'd highly suggest consulting with a lawyer to make sure you are ok. I'm just a member of the community and have absolutely no stake in Drupal but if I were in charge I might be considering legal action right now. You can't just slap registered and copyright marks on anything you feel like, they do have legal implications and requirements.

It may seem like everyone is coming down on you pretty hard but you screwed up pretty badly and I'd say your rep is fairly tarnished but not unsalvageable at this point.

killes@www.drop.org’s picture

killes@www.drop.org commented

In fact he can sell Drupal just fine - he only needs to distribute it under the GPL.
--
Drupal services
My Drupal services

--
Drupal services
My Drupal services