Hi, this is one of the "the site at X is a more appropriate community than your current site Y" issues (as said by greggles here :) ). The current Drupal Turkey site which is listed at Language-specific Communities page is inactive for a long time. The site hasn't been updated for months now and the support questions are not responded. I suggest that it is replaced by drupaldersleri.org (it means Drupal Tutorials in Turkish) which is also the home of the official Turkish translation project maintained by me.

Before making this suggestion, i've opened a discussion topic at g.d.o Turkey group asking what would the community think of this change. The response was positive. I'll also post a link of this issue there in case you need other people's comments on this issue.

Current site: http://drupaltr.org
Suggested site: http://drupaldersleri.org

Thanks in advance.

CommentFileSizeAuthor
#12 notUpdate.JPG35.52 KBbakyildiz

Comments

avpaderno’s picture

avpaderno
he/him
Primary language Italian
Location Brescia, 🇮🇹 🇪🇺
commented
Title: local community site » Turkish community site
aydos’s picture

aydos commented

thanks drupaloSa for drupaldersleri.org, it is active and module explanations are very helpful for Turkish drupal users...

bakyildiz’s picture

bakyildiz commented

drupaldersleri.org is more more alive as to compared to drupaltr. Much more support and detailed information can be found at drupaldersleri.org.

erdemali’s picture

erdemali commented

Since its opening, drupaldersleri.org has made a great contribution in promotion and support of Drupal in Turkey. I myself learned using Drupal at this site. Hence, i fully support drupaldersleri.org being recognized as the Turkish Drupal community site.

hunanka’s picture

hunanka commented

A drupal support site is drupaldersleri.org . This site very important. Because online drupal support to present. The Turkish online country support site = drupaldersleri.org . You understand me ?

Joker-TR’s picture

Joker-TR commented

druapldersleri.org is the one way for the fully support..Why ? cause drupaltr.org is like a ghost country :/ this is my point of view..

I dont know drupaltr.org Until now ,I m already know drupaldersleri.org...When I learned The drupaltr.org is current support site, I said that its impossible...

Thanx to drupaldersleri.org for continuously support...
Current support site must be drupaldersleri.org..

mb1984’s picture

mb1984 commented

Since 2 mounth I am using drupal,I see too many problem and when I was solving my problem http://drupaldersleri.org help me.
Thanks to drupaldersleri.org for help...I think drupaldersleri.org must be current support site.

avpaderno’s picture

avpaderno
he/him
Primary language Italian
Location Brescia, 🇮🇹 🇪🇺
commented

I think that the concept is clear.
It's not required that all inhabitants of Turkey vote for this. :-)

drupaloSa’s picture

drupaloSa commented

Thank you all who have expressed their support in both here and g.d.o.

Could somebody please respond to this issue?

johnnoc’s picture

johnnoc
Primary language Norwegian Bokmål
Location Oslo
commented
Status: Active » Postponed (maintainer needs more info)

It seems that drupaltr.org is also an active site. The last comment posted was just an hour ago.I suggest we give drupaltr.org a few days to defend themselves.

@Onur (drupaloSa) I understand that you are the maintainer of the turkish translation, but why is the turkish localization server under drupaltr.org? (http://l10n.drupaltr.org/) It also looks like that the localization server is very active. Moreover, the turkish translation page links to drupaltr.org.

drupaloSa’s picture

drupaloSa commented

Drupaltr.org was opened a few years ago, before i actually started using Drupal. The owner of the site was active for a time but there wasn't enough Drupal users in Turkey then. So i guess either he lost his ambition to provide support for Turkish Drupal users (because there wasn't much of an interest) or he got involved in some other jobs (school maybe). As a result the site couldn't provide new Drupal content and there was noone to provide support. On the other hand, since it was recognized as the official Turkish Drupal Community Site and since there wasn't any other options it gained the highest rank in Google(tr) when searched for "drupal". This is the reason why new people still register to the site and ask for support, except for there is noone to give that support. By the way, the last news item on the mainpage, "Drupal 6: CCK, Views ve Organic Groups", was entered in July 2008 and only 5 comments were posted in the whole last week (mostly by the newly registered users who seek help).

Regarding the TR translation:

I started using Drupal in Jan. 2008 and at that time the translation project was not maintained. I opened a topic in the issue queue but noone responded. Drupal 6 was out and but TR translation was missing. So i applied to be the maintainer of the translation and it was approved. I worked on the tranlation mostly by myself and released the 6.x translation in May 2008. Older (4.x and 5.x) tranlations were provided by the owner of drupaltr.org (don't know if there were other contributors). In the current project page i explained this situation, and in order to give credit for their work i linked to drupaltr.org.

While i was working on 6.x translation, Turkish localization server didn't exist. In Sept. 2008, the owner of drupaltr.org declared that he will redesign drupaltr.org, but later he became inactive again. In the declaration, he also said he had opened a localization server. However, as the current maintainer of TR translation, i didn't had any info on that until i read it. Honestly, I still don't know what to do with that. But i don't think it's directly related to this discussion here.

To sum up; the owner of Drupaltr.org isn't active for the time being; neither in drupal.org, g.d.o nor drupaltr.org. Also as far as i know, there isn't any editor/moderator at drupaltr.org other than him. So i don't think anyone will be responding from drupaltr.org in the near future (if there were, i would ask them where they were for the whole 2008). But i understand your concerns, so if we need to wait, we will wait.

bakyildiz’s picture

bakyildiz commented
StatusFileSize
new notUpdate.JPG35.52 KB

Hi Jhon

The localization server (http://l10n.drupaltr.org/) was a good start. But it does not go further and it seems that it is not maintained any more. The translations available in localization server was just imports of already translated translation files. Please find the attached screen shot of the localization server. You will see that it is still on drupal version 5.11 and 6.5.

Regards.

4 strings’s picture

4 strings commented

hello, i am from turkey. i think drupaldersleri.org is perfect. i always use druapldersleri.org. good luck.

preper’s picture

preper commented

the most important think for a successful community is supporting.. In Türkiye for drupal users and supporters drupaltr.com is not enough as a result development of drupal sites and users are also very slow. I always use drupaldersleri.com and I have seen that there is a good and fast support for drupal users. Infact there is no need to think about that in Türkiye drupaldersleri.com is the best...

best regards...

drupaloSa’s picture

drupaloSa commented

@preper: It's not .com, it's drupaldersleri.org; the .com tld redirects to a Joomla support site :)

LiquidWeb’s picture

LiquidWeb commented

I don't understand why people think there are two sides and support one of them. When I complained Erdem Köse (administrator) about site he said "You can have full control on site if you believe you can support. I am open to everything but not to give domain". I don't think he changed his mind so why don't we build one big site. I believe we can do such thing. And even if we change the link on this site drupaltr will be the first site on google for "drupal türkiye" for a long time. So instead of directing people to a new site we can improve one that we have.

drupaloSa’s picture

drupaloSa commented

I haven't seen him online for a long time; but today he registered an account at drupaldersleri.org. Probably he will respond to this topic here soon. But if he agreed to "give full control of the site" then he might also agree to redirect his domain to drupaldersleri.org while keeping the ownership of the domain. Since drupaltr.org is not up to date, that would be the best way to go.

LiquidWeb’s picture

LiquidWeb commented

Why we have to chose one can't we create newer and better site?

drupaloSa’s picture

drupaloSa commented

I don't see any reason to abondon an existing and up to date site in order to create a new one. I'm pleased with the current design and content of drupaldersleri.org and it's continuously improving. Starting from scratch would be waste of all the effort spent in the last 4 months. If you have any ideas on improving our site though, i'd love to hear them (in another topic, not in this issue). Together we can make it better.

vm’s picture

vm commented
Status: Postponed (maintainer needs more info) » Fixed

you can edit http://drupal.org/language-specific-communities and ADD your site as one of those listed. DO NOT remove the other site. This should suffice.

johnnoc’s picture

johnnoc
Primary language Norwegian Bokmål
Location Oslo
commented
Status: Fixed » Needs work

@VeryMisunderstood
That page is locked so anybody cannot edit the page. Also, I believe that unlocking that page is an invitation to link farm and will defeat its purpose of only listing selected resources that have proven their usefulness in their local community . Moreover, adding numerous sites per language-specific community will not be helpful to that community. It will be very confusing and promote segregation.The sites listed at http://drupal.org/language-specific-communities have worked hard to unify their local community as well as consolidate language-specific resources and support. Suddenly allowing numerous sites will undo the hard work they have done.

So if drupaltr.org does not meet the standards of a useful local Drupal community site, then why have them on the list? I was actually about to edit the page and change it to drupaldersleri.org but since comments #16, #17, #18 and #19 came, probably there will be a better outcome. Wouldn't it be better for a language-specific community to cooperate with each other rather than we cater segregation? Wouldn't it be better to only list one site per language-specific community to help them strengthen their local community?

My suggestion here is to have the turkish community communicate with each other first.... if they will point all their efforts to making drupaltr.org active again or if the turkish community decides to use drupaldersleri.org instead.

bakyildiz’s picture

bakyildiz commented

Wouldn't it be better for a language-specific community to cooperate with each other rather than we cater segregation

I totally agree with that. My advise, and also some friends under groups.drupal.org/turkey has advised to join under a common support site and combine all the others under that one. For this purpose, i have registered to available support sites and advise them to come together under groups.drupal.org/turkey and after that dicide to the next steps. But this attempt was not succesful. It is difficult to me to understand why contributors wants to control their own domain! If we are a community domain should be owned by the Turkish community, and the content should be managed by several admistrator. Until we have a common support site this type of decisions should be given under groups.drupal.org/turkey. (Until now groups.drupal.org/turkey was not succesful about this topic but i hope this issue helps. Thanks to drupaldersleri.org who has started this issue).

killes@www.drop.org’s picture

killes@www.drop.org commented

We also have a policy to only have one site per language in order to foster cooperation.

drupaloSa’s picture

drupaloSa commented

My suggestion here is to have the turkish community communicate with each other first.... if they will point all their efforts to making drupaltr.org active again or if the turkish community decides to use drupaldersleri.org instead.

I've opened this topic at g.d.o 11 days ago to ask the community what they would think of this change. The response to my suggestion was positive and i opened this issue here. None of the posters above objected to this change as pointed out by kiam@avpnet.org:

I think that the concept is clear.
It's not required that all inhabitants of Turkey vote for this. :-)

I seems that i couldn't explain myself well enough as the concepts of segregation and cooperation came out again. These might be the cases in other countries where there are competing sites that offer Drupal support. But in Turkey, we don't have such sites. Some sites were opened in the past, but they are either abondoned or became inactive now. Drupaltr.org is one of these sites. In fact, we don't have any other site than drupaldersleri.org which is (i) active, (ii) up to date, (ii) offers support and (iv) dedicated only to Drupal. If there were such a site, drupaldersleri.org wouldn't gone online in the first place.

erdemkose’s picture

erdemkose commented

I think I have to say something about this issue. I am the maintainer of the drupaltr.org. I think I did my best to keep drupaltr.org as an open community. We chose the domain name as a community and Erdem Üney paid for the domain name and I paid for the hosting package. There are 4 site administrators on drupaltr.org. I am not the only administrator. And we are always open to any suggestion/contribution.

I am not answering in forums on drupaltr.org anymore. There may be unanswered questions but I think 1400+ users are enough for a support forum.

I see that drupaldersleri.org is a 3½ months old support site(according to node/1). It would be great if I was aware of this site at the beginning so we could merge both sites under one domain instead of two separate sites.

Finally, I am not worried about which site is listed on d.o. I love Drupal and I worked for increasing the awareness of Drupal in Turkey because community is the heart of the Drupal. If d.o webmasters are OK about drupaldersleri.org is community-oriented enough and it should be listed, I am OK, too.

drupaloSa’s picture

drupaloSa commented
Status: Needs work » Reviewed & tested by the community

I'm surprised to learn that there are 4 site administrators on drupaltr.org as i haven't seen any of them answering questions or creating content during the last year. It seems that all of them have gone inactive on drupaltr.org. I don't think someone will be willing to step in to keep the site up to date while all the admins are away; at least i wouldn't.

I also don't think having 1400+ users is an important factor if almost all of them are inactive as they couldn't find the support they were looking for and moved on to other forums/sites or worse to other well-supported CMS. Even worst of the worst, some of them are now telling others to stay away from Drupal as they won't be able get support from the official local support site.

--x--

As i understand, during the following months, drupaltr.org will go on its own way with its current outdated status and with the hopes of finding someone who will be willing to take responsibility to update the site, while i'll be working on drupaldersleri.org to improve it further.

I believe everybody - me from drupaldersleri.org, Erdem from drupaltr.org and the other members of the Turkish community - said their part on this topic, and now it's time to reach a final decision. Hence i change the status of the topic to "reviewed and tested by the community". The decision to use or not to use the provided patch for the language-specific communities page belongs to d.o webmasters.

johnnoc’s picture

johnnoc
Primary language Norwegian Bokmål
Location Oslo
commented
Status: Reviewed & tested by the community » Fixed

I think I will not be alone in saying that drupal.org does not care if its drupaltr.org or drupaldersleri.org or any other turkish site which will be listed. The important thing is that it is a language-specific site that best caters to the specific language. Non-turkish speakers cannot really decide on this as we do not understand what really is going on. YOU ARE the turkish community! So it's up to you! You should then enlighten us on which site will be most helpful to your community.

Some language-specific communities don't even have a third-party site. The Vietnamese community, for example, decided to utilize groups.drupal.org instead. The Swedish community even registered a swedish domain (http://drupalsverige.se) and redirects it to groups.drupal.org/sweden.

It is really hard to come up with a decision on this matter because:

  • Drupaltr.org has existed for some years but currently not very active.The domain name is chosen by the community. There are 4 site administrators and are always open to any suggestion/contribution. 1400+ users.
  • Drupaldersleri.org is active but is a brand new site (3 1/2 months). 1 site admin who is very active.
  • Comments from new users are very positive to drupaldersleri.org
  • Older users gear toward a site where the community is more involved.

IMHO, drupaldersleri.org is still a very young site and needs more time to prove its existence. Since drupaltr.org is currently not so active, new users shouldn't also be misled. I temporarily removed Turkey from the list. A note to turkish users has also been added to the Language-specific Communities page. If in the future drupaltr.org livens up or drupaldersleri.org has been stable enough, then by all means, give us the link to your community. Wishing the turkish community good luck! :-)

drupaloSa’s picture

drupaloSa commented

Honestly, that was an interesting and unexpected outcome for me. Although i believe that the current status is not an improvement over the older one, i won't complain about it. I think i've already said all i should; time will tell the rest.

avpaderno’s picture

avpaderno
he/him
Primary language Italian
Location Brescia, 🇮🇹 🇪🇺
commented

I think this is the only possible action that could have been taken.
Drupal.org cannot decide for a community what is the best Drupal site that represent the members of that community. They must decide which is the web site they want to represent them, and then communicate it to Drupal.org.
Until a decision has not been taken from the Turkish community, any single Turkish could come out saying that the actual site doesn't represent them. The community must make an election to decide the web site they want.

operatorr’s picture

operatorr commented
Title: Turkish community site » Turkish community sit

Drupaldersleri vS. drupaltr ??

my choice certainly drupaldersleri.org :) . Drupaldersleri.org very helpfull and more professional.

drupaloSa’s picture

drupaloSa commented
Title: Turkish community sit » Turkish community site
Status: Fixed » Postponed

correcting the recent title change, also changing the status to postponed as it's not fixed yet.

avpaderno’s picture

avpaderno
he/him
Primary language Italian
Location Brescia, 🇮🇹 🇪🇺
commented
Status: Postponed » Closed (won't fix)

Almost seven months are passed, and it doesn't seem the issue is going to be fixed. I guess this report should be set to "won't fix".