Dear Frederik,
up to now my attempts to get improvements committed to this module have not been as successful as i would have wanted to. But because almost 2000 users are relying on this module's functionality and you have not committed any changes to it for three months i think you might not be interested in moving development of the languageicons module forward and am kindly requesting cvs access to contribute some fixes and new functionality.
rgds marcel.

CommentFileSizeAuthor
#5 glossy-flags-theme.png58.46 KBeMPee584

Comments

Freso’s picture

Freso commented
Component: Code » Miscellaneous
Status: Active » Closed (won't fix)

I would, if I trusted you to be a responsible maintainer (e.g. understand the concepts of code and string freezes, and know to avoid patch context switching) and not be poisonous. Based on our previous communications in e.g. #300307: Add glossy flag theme (I still have the text to comment #7 stored in my e-mail, fwiw), I can't say that these hold true.

If you want to help move this forward, #319966: Add flag icon theme selector would be a good place to look (as you've already done some work on this). Also, #310859: Various string issues still has an unanswered question that noone seems to want to help me with, which means I can't move forward. #281585: two active menu local tasks is in a "code needs review" state, and needs someone to test it before it gets committed - again, no one has stepped up to do the job, and thus, I don't feel like moving forward with that either.

I'll get around to adding the various flags at some point, but they're not critical; people can add the flags/icons they want/need, either to the module's flags directory, or upload their own directory and point "Language icons" to that.

All in all, 6.x-1.0 is actually rather stable, doesn't have any outstanding critical issues, and is, all in all, a proper little release. Which means there isn't much maintenance needed. Sure, more icons can always be added (at least until the thousands of languages are covered), but as I just explained, people can easily add/change icons to suit their needs. 6.x-2.x mostly needs input from other people to move forward, and if you truly wanted to help the module along, there are several places you could have helped out, even without having CVS access.

You might also want to read Bèr Kessels' Help maintainers maintain. And helping contributors help the maintainers.

eMPee584’s picture

eMPee584 commented

Your ability to hold true to your stubbornness does not cease to amaze me. Yes the code i submitted as patch touched more than one specific issue, but as the code complexity is not to be considered especially high i still can't be bothered to split up my patches just to please your desire for forcing your mind set upon others.
It is obvious that such a simple module has no critical issues, but you are not contributing anything to move development forward, rather blocking other people's efforts to do so. Surely i am not the only one who neither has the time nor the will to deal with your way of handling this; i just hoped for the sake of your userbase you will come to senses and transcend this stalling deadlock.

Module maintainership does NOT mean module ownership, a difference you are seemingly not willing to comprehend. Guess why noone wants to work together with you under these circumstances. Already i did mention the totally different experience with my changes to the signwriter module in #316295: implement hooks to replace page/block titles, font/style preview, coder style, unicode handling, where the author in the end even gave me cvs access without me requesting it, just as with my fixes for the contemplate module in #337872: undefined indices, coder style.
Even though you've decided to just drop voluntary contributions from your users which don't fit your arbitrary requirements - you still think you're following the maintainership guidelines you're referring to... Laughable at most, if only the implications of your demeanour would not impact about at least 2000 people.
Whatever, have your little module, i am just going to fork this and move on.

jose reyero’s picture

jose reyero commented

Though this doesn't really deserve a reply I just want to set this point straight:

> Module maintainership does NOT mean module ownership

Yes, it does. The module maintainer is the one to decide which features are worth his time for reviewing / committing / future maintenance, etc..

> Even though you've decided to just drop voluntary contributions from your users which don't fit your arbitrary requirements

Module maintainers do it all the time, it's part of their job.

So please, feel free to (politely) disagree, but respect the criteria of the module maintainer about (his) module.

And well, it's GPL code, you know, so the code is all yours, the module is not really (though you're welcomed to use it).

eMPee584’s picture

eMPee584 commented

But Jose, please consider this: if you have very little time and already spent much to much of it on something and than still take some precious more of it to craft your results into something others can benefit from - and then the so-called module 'owner' decides he is not willing to thankfully accept your contribution and himself weave it into the code he obviously - if not 'owns' - has primary responsibility for - but not because of technical reasons..!.. would that make you feel positive about trying to contribute your time and effort to that specific module?

Forking sucks (first and foremost because users will have to migrate instead of just update, but XOrg and Foswiki show it sometimes has to be done to move beyond standstill caused by stubborn project 'owners'. Still, i'd rather not have to do it as i really wouldn't have wanted to even spend time on friggin discussing my stupidly simple patches. You can't imagine how much time the icons alone took.. and i really hoped for some more welcoming enthusiasm.

eMPee584’s picture

eMPee584 commented
StatusFileSize
new glossy-flags-theme.png58.46 KB

Just for showing off the improvement that could be in (together with the famfamfam icon set) since i committed patches three months ago: my glossy flag icon set.

Freso’s picture

Freso commented

eMPee584: Nothing is stopping people from using your icon set. Just like nothing is stopping people from making their own icon set and using that. Also, the module was in code and string freeze when you submitted your patch, which added functionality and altered strings. Besides apparently not grasping the concepts of these, you also switched patch context and, due to your own stubbornness, refused to simply take the patch up in a new issue, where I would have happily reviewed the code and, if it was good to go, committed it to the 6.x-2.x branch as soon as I had branched off.

eMPee584’s picture

eMPee584 commented

Why waste time splitting up this super-simple 5K patch? Is there any change you fail to comprehend? No? Then why split it up? Too conform to your way of doing things (each minuscule change in its own separate issue)?

And because i didn't, you chose to ignore it? Weighing your preferred work methods over visual improvements for thousands of users is clearly very mature behaviour, isn't it. Is it?

Edit: What's more, you're acting all like this was a HUGE, very complex FOSS project.. CCK is. Views is. KDE4 is. This is not. String freeze, yeah right. Ridiculous.

Freso’s picture

Freso commented
Priority: Critical » Normal

First of all, I haven't ignored your patch. If you actually did have any healthy interest in this module (and as such followed the issue queue), you would've noticed that I point to your patch in #319966: Add flag icon theme selector.

Second of all, concepts such as string and code freezes and "one issue per issue" are sound concepts, no matter the size of a project. I don't think I've seen any developer I put any trust/value in, not recommending putting each minuscule change in its own separate issue (which in Drupal terms should directly translate to (CVS) commit). Again, please read thearticles by webchick and Bèr Kessels previously linked to.

eMPee584’s picture

eMPee584 commented

No Freso, i have absolutely no interest in the issue queue although i am totally healthy. Why? Because i am a *USER* of this module and as such only care if it works without issues on MY site - which it does. That i am taking the time to contribute my modifications is out of gratitude and nothing i am obliged to.
Furthermore, thank you for introducing me to the basic concepts of programming and FLOSS. No really, where would i be without your precious support on these topics.
Sarcasticisms aside, opening issues isn't what moves FOSS forward. Committing code is what does, and everything else is basically just meant to result in exactly that. Clear methodology starts being important in projects beyond a certain size because otherwise things become unmanageable and fall apart. Thus it is advisable to keep to a sane methodology right from the very start. But clearly that falls within your reign of power responsibility. If a user submits enhancements, it is utterly stupid to demand yet more from them because in most cases they simply won't deliver. Why? See above.
So as long as i am not a developer of this module, my scope of interest in it is very limited, which is such an intuitive fact any FOSS project maintainer should be able to grasp.

jose reyero’s picture

jose reyero commented

Well, I think we've all said enough here so may I ask that we focus our attention on issues and not on people's view of how the World should work?

Really, I've posted a lot of patches to different modules and some of them have been sitting there for months or years (though I think they're so simple and so good). While on the other side for the modules I maintain there are great patches that have been there for long because either I don't have time for reviewing and testing or they just don't fit my development priorities.

In short you can do whatever you want or you can with your (limited) time, you cannot tell anyone else what to do with his or her (limited) time. And yes, we all run patched modules on one site or another because we really need that patches but the module maintainer doesn't.

For the rest I think the rules are as simple as:

1. On the issue tracker we talk about code and module's issues, we don't talk about people. For other things we have the forum and the mailing lists.
2. We all may disagree, though the module maintainer has the final say on what is a priority and what not, and what gets committed and what not, and where the module is going.

('final' means *final*, 'disagreement' means just *one* 'I don't really agree' post)

So please, let's stick to the point, and #319966: Add flag icon theme selector