Closed (fixed)
Project:
Views (for Drupal 7)
Version:
6.x-2.x-dev
Component:
User interface
Priority:
Normal
Category:
Task
Assigned:
Unassigned
Reporter:
Created:
24 Apr 2009 at 07:36 UTC
Updated:
26 Apr 2009 at 07:14 UTC
Please let me know which disturbed mind devised the Views 2 UI, so that I know whom to curse for my misery every morning I wake up.
Thanks.
Comments
Comment #1
fuzzy_texan commentedHardly seems worth replying to...
Comment #2
fuzzy_texan commentedComment #3
abramo commentedfuzzy_texan - (Member for 15 weeks !!!) - How dare you close my post? -nobody needs your view on this matter, we hardly need your unworthy arrogance. It is obvious you have nothing meaningful to contribute, so just get out of here.
Here I am starting a discussion, I am certain you have not realized, about the unnecessary stringiness & complexity of the Views 2 UI, and the need to make it much more user friendly.
Comment #4
abramo commentedComment #5
twodHow about some constructive criticism instead of just "this sucks", which basically says nothing and gives no base for a discussion?
Calling somebody arrogant and unworthy for closing an issue which looks very much like a way to start a flamewar rather than a proper discussion is just mean. Somebody who's been here as long as you should know better IMHO.
If you want to discuss a topic, just say something along your last paragraph and fill it out with a couple of points where you see a direct need of improvement.
I personally find the Views 2 UI easy to work with and I think at least a few people would agree with that. But pointing out the exact things you find confusing or too complex would be a good way to remind others that it might not be so easy to grasp.
Considering the complexity which can be achieved with SQL queries and result presentation I personally think Views does a good job when presenting the tools to build those queries and handle the result. I don't say it can't be improved, everything can be improved, and it would be interesting to hear more people's opinions on this.
Comment #6
fuzzy_texan commentedIf you'd been around long enough you'd have seen I've been a member for 2 years. My account was deleted 15 weeks ago when deleting spam posts from documentation, and an admin mistakenly deleted my account instead of the spammers, and subsequently recreated. Ah assumptions.
Proof if you need it - June 10, 2007: http://drupal.org/node/148537#comment-240829
I still see no valid issue report. If this guy wants to start a discussion on Views UI, wouldn't it be just polite to put some effort into explaining the specific issues he has?
This issues reads to me as:
- A bunch of guys spent a s***load of time and effort building the module that makes drupal ridiculously powerful.
- some guy pops in and creates an issue that says - please tell me who I should curse for being so cr@p (while spending what looks like exactly 5 seconds worth of effort)
There's only one person being rude here. I'm all for constructive discussion on Views UI, but it doesn't deserve to start like this.
Comment #7
twodWhoops, didn't see you changed the category.
Comment #8
twodComment #9
abramo commentedYou are not allowed to close a post (issue) whenever you feel in disagreement with its content.
This is an irregular behaviour and I request that you refrain from closing it again.
The post shall remain open, and meaningful contributions are invited.
If you do not have any further opinion to express, regarding my position on the complexity of the Views 2 UI, just do not post here.
Flames, either mild or otherwise, not welcome.
Grow up.
Comment #10
fuzzy_texan commentedComment #11
abramo commentedComment #12
twodWell, what is your position on the complexity of the Views 2 UI, other than it's "complex"? Of course it's complex, it has a complex task to do.
But for someone to know what about it you want to improve and perhaps make less complex to understand, please specify so we know what to discuss.
Comment #13
abramo commented- Drupal has thousands of modules, most advanced sites needing quite a few of them to function.-
- A learning process is needed whenever a new version is introduced for each and every module used on a site.
- "Speeding" technology advances and "internet timing" require that Drupal advances fast, and faster than its competitors.
- Therefore, while introducing new technologies at a fast rate cannot (and should not) be avoided, introducing them when really ready and such that the learning curve is not steep - is essential.
Views 2 is a worthy and significant step forward, but its UI is not. Our sole business is not to spend extensive time expanses to learn how to use each new version of a module. This is not time well spent. The current UI is not intuitive, is unnecessarily complex and difficult to learn, and this is why it needs volumes of help texts to learn. Just contemplate what would happen if every single module on Drupal had a similar learning curve to the Views 2 UI ? We would have no time left for anything else, like web development, than learning how to use Drupal - especially at the current rate of innovation.
There is no single module on Drupal today that its UI approaches anything in complexity than the UI of Views 2.
The time required to find out what is going on, and how to use it, is unacceptable.
Most new users will be totally lost and will need hundreds of hours to find out what Views 2 is all about.
This comment from somebody who has been using Views 1 extensively for over two years.
I have found the Views 1 UI interface intuitive and user friendly, simple, devoid of superfluous bells and whistles. Simplicity is a virtue, not a vice. I would not hesitate to encourage going back to the simple & intuitive style of the Views 1 UI, if what we may only have as an alternative is the current interface. But any ohter suggestion, towards simplicity and user friendliness, is welcome.
The current Views 2 UI is a step backward in usability, not a step forward.
Existing users will have to *waste* a lot of effort and time to find out what this is all about, while new users will really struggle - support tickets are already at a volume I have never witnessed before.
Views module, as of its nature, is already a difficult module to fully grasp. Introducing a complicated and truly un-intuitive UI, full of bells & whistles and hidden sections - in many cases a guessing game - is not a good idea.
Comment #14
twodI have not used Views 1 so I can't compare with that atm. Perhaps that's why I don't see which parts of the UI you want to change, and how.
I'll probably install Views 1 later if I have time and have a look at it to see what you mean.
Comment #15
tstoeckler@abramo: Great title for "starting a discussion". Changing to something more constructive.
Comment #16
fuzzy_texan commented#13 - If you'd put what's in #13 in the description, you would have got a much more positive response from everyone. Now it's a valid issue, contains something useful and no longer needs to be closed.
Suggest taking the time to articulate your issues up front next time.
Comment #17
abramo commentedApologies to those offended, but my initial one-liner provides my true attitude towards bells, whistles and total disregard for the learning curve (i.e. other peoples' learning time). It says it all in a nutshell.
Drupal's success & popularity owes a great deal to the simplicity and modularity of its concept, and ease of use. Stringent and complex alternatives, while frequently superior in functionality, have gone the way of the graveyard because of their stringency: designed by programmers for programmers, with total disregard for the capabilities and time availability of the average web developer.
Up to now Drupal has kept an excellent balance between technical prowess and usability. If Drupal is left to morph into a monster only tamed by programmers, it will end up in the graveyard too. True believers in Drupal do not want that to happen. The Views 2 UI is an example of what Drupal should *not* be. Please note that my concern is with the User Interface only (UI), not the Views 2 module itself, which represents significant progress as far as capabilities are concerned.
Contemplate the classic open source example for a moment: Linux :
excellent, free, readily availabe already for a long time now -- who cares!!
(while my heart bleeds for Linux, I use M$ Windows, along with billions of users - for good reason too . . . .)
Comment #18
merlinofchaos commentedThis thread is now closed. If you want to 'start a discussion', please feel free to do so in the forums. This issue queue is for dealing with problems, not unfocused whining.