By Eagle-i on
I am busy developing an online school but am still looking for the right script to use. Did look at Moodle and searched for some others, and Moodle looks great, ...but :) you have to get to know a whole new way of working.
And to be honest ...., I like drupal the best for my sites.
Did read up on the following post about sites for brick-and-mortar schools and a reference was made to e.g. Moodle.
Now, does anyone have any suggestions as how to setup an Online School using Drupal?
It must have features that e.g. Moodle offers:
- teachers and students (roles)
- grading
- classes, subjects, courses
- etc
Any suggestions guys? Your help would really be appreciated.
Comments
Check out DrupalEd for folks
Check out DrupalEd for folks with a more specialized set of info.
http://drupaled.org/
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
This is something we're working on
We did a fair amount of development toward this in 4.6, and sorted out much of this functionality, including the ability to have multiple separate classes within a single drupal install.
We shelved our 4.6 development to focus on getting this ready for 4.7 -- The functionality of the Drupal-based online course is described on our web site, and we will release this code back to the community when it is ready for prime time.
The one thing we are not actively developing is a grading module -- this will come eventually, but it is not something we are building for the initial release.
Cheers,
Bill
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Your website a cookie jar :)
Hi Bill
I felt like a kid in a candy store last night! After reading the first comment here i went to drupalED.org and your site, funnymonkey.com, and i had the time of my life :). Wow. You did an awesome job documenting together with some other drupallers and also the fact that there are some downloadable sites as examples....men! Thanks so much.
I am still reading up on it and can't wait to actually have a working online school based on drupal.
However, since i don't know when you guys will have something ready (including some grading module), i will probably for now have to resort to Moodle, since i am time pressed. We are looking at the month of May to start.
Glad the site was useful for you
And, WRT Moodle, it does a good job managing multiple classes from within a single install. Moodle provides a more structured environment out of the box than a Drupal site, and to set up a class on a fairly short timeline, Moodle will work very well --
Feel free to post back with any additional questions as they arise, either in this thread, or off-forum via my user contact or email address (from the web site).
Cheers,
Bill
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
very usefull :) still questions though
I have read on the possibilities between linking Elgg, Moodle and drupal and it seems easy, but haven't been able to connect moodle and drupal through the connection module.
I tried to connect the 2 installs but no success.
I registered at drupaled.org and posted my comment:
http://drupaled.org/drupal_moodle_single_sign_on_integration_available#c...
I also don't know how to create multiple classes within moodle and be able to re-use the content of the course for the next group to be enrolled.
Concerning Elgg:
looks good, but not sure i will use it. My users are used to drupal and is a lively community using features as My buddylist, buddyposts, etc.
RE Drupal/Moodle SSO -- from
RE Drupal/Moodle SSO -- from reading through the module, it appears to have been written for 4.5, not 4.6 -- I haven't had the need to integrate Drupal and Moodle side by side, so a detailed exploration of the module remains a yet-to-be addressed item on my to do list -- so, I don't have any firsthand experience on this -- sorry.
RE reusing content -- Moodle has a pretty robust export/import feature -- you can pick specific sections within an existing course, export them, and then import them into a different course. The export features give you a large amount of control over the pieces of content you can take.
Cheers,
Bill
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
aTutor & Moodle & Drupal
Here is another question:
how does aTutor compare with Moodle and working with drupal?
Any experience there?
Sorry --
I haven't tried ATutor -- no firsthand experience there.
Bill
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
ATutor
I'm using ATutor at my work (a school) but don't have working experience with Moodle. When I decided wich system we should use at work I did a screening for a suitable Open Source LMS/LCMS. Back then ATutor was a clear winner beeing the only one offering SCORM compatibility. Today other systems offer that. When doing e-learning it's my opinnion that system without SCORM compatibility is not an option.
You could take look at: http://www.atutor.ca/view/2/3345/1.html (especially "Posted: 2004-12-31 11:15:50"), http://www.atutor.ca/view/7/3788/1.html, http://www.atutor.ca/atutor/files/VLE_comparison.pdf
But well the point is, there is no integration betwen drupal and atutor. There has been plans to integrate the to systems, but they have been dropped again I think. At least the "drupal integration comming sonn" message on Atutor's module page has gone some months ago :-(
Jens
Roadmap for eLearning using Drupal
I posted a similar question on drupaled.org but would like to hear from more drupallers about the possibilities of a roadmap for eLearning using drupal:
"i am still not convinced that i should be using moodle, although it seems to have all the items i need. ATutor seems to be another candidate, but i don't like the interface: to distracting.
My question then would be:
Is there a roadmap for eLearning using Drupal ? (long live drupal :) )
e.g. modules to use building an eLearning site with drupal:
- blogs
- forums
- upload files
- events / calendar
- quizes (personal)
- personal assignments
etc"
We need a gradebook or some sorts.
Any ideas guys?
Building webblog portals & communities with drupal
A few ways to accomplish this
But, not all the pieces are here yet.
I've written about this on my web site, and included instructions and a downloadable blog-based class site.
As I talk about in greater length on my web site, stock drupal (or even modules such as Organic Groups) don't yet give a clean enough UI for multiple classes in a single install. As Drupal currently ships, it is great for hosting a single class in a single install
We are working on some code that will adress this. We had the end user UI sorted out for 4.6, but needed to work on the admin UI, when, for a variety of reasons we decided to put our development hours into modules for 4.7.
Our initial version of a Drupal-based site to run multiple classes will include much of what you describe in your post. We are not, however, planning on building a grading module in the initial version of the code.
Cheers,
Bill
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Which is the best way to go?
Bill
i downloaded both your forum-based and blog-based classess and they look great, although...i haven't had the time to extensively test them and see which one maches my school criteria.
Questions:
1. what would you say are the main functional differences between the two types of classes?
2. which one should i be working with to "position" myself (site) for your upgraded "classess"?
I don't want to invent the wheel if someone already has a headstart with a project like this; don't have the time for it :). A functional discussion of what we want is welcomed.
I have posted a forum topic concerning the grading book:
Grading book
Hope it makes sense.
Building webblog portals & communities with drupal
The main difference between
The main difference between the forum-based class and the blog-based class has to do with (IMO) the locus of control -- the blog-based class feels more decentered. The content is based around the contributions of individual users, and these user-generated ideas are sorted according to category.
The forum-based site centralizes the class discussion in the forums -- this allows for a greater structure to contain discussion.
This year, I switched some classes I was running from forum-based sites to blog-based sites. I retained forums for student questions that arose outside regular meeting times (these questions can be used to seed class discussions, or as points of reference to gauge the depth of understanding), but the rest of the course content was managed through blogs. After I made the switch, I noticed (as did my students) a marked improvement in the quality of online discussion.
Really, the differences between the two are more related to UI than function. Both forums and blogs are nodes organized by taxonomy. Some teachers and students will be more comfortable with a forum-based site, while others will prefer a blog-based site. In my personal experience, I have seen greater student involvement with the blog-based site.
RE question #2, one of the other things we're working on is more granular content sharing between sites. I would recommend experimenting with both types of sites to see which one makes more sense to you. Plan the same lesson in both sites, and see where it feels easier. If all goes well, we'll have the content sharing sorted out within a month or two, so it will be a simple matter to move material from one site to another.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Bill
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Ownership, timeliness, journals, and evaluation
Some of what Bill said and some more:
A forum post goes into a site defined topic space created by the teacher. A blog is a more open user(s) space (depending on whether you have individual or community blogs). Students have more ownership of their blog space since only their blog posts appear on their personal blog listing page.
Blogs have to be conversed about in a timely manner since blogs always appear in chronological order. One does not get "bumped" back up to the top of the list in the main blog display because it has been responded to.
An individual blog space can act as journal space where students may post things that aren't generally thought of as discussion thread starters. While one could use the forums in this way, it's not part of the conceptual view of forum space.
Blogs may also be easier for the teacher to evaluate each student. I treat the blog post as having more importance than a discussion comment posting. If I were to try to duplicate these blog assignments in forums, they would be all over the forums and harder to pull out. With blogs, I read an individual's primary writing by reading their blog.
BTW: I tried categories (taxonomy) with blogs. My sense was that students never used the links they provided to category listings. I ended up not using them either. And students often grossly misapplied the categories on their posts. I'm hoping that freetagging may work better since it's user defined.
gradebooks should be main priority
I've been teaching writing classes with Drupal now for a few years--some face-to-face with the website as support, some completely distance ed. Students predominantly like Drupal better in comparison to their proprietary LMS experiences. Far and above, the number one thing that they do miss and which they definitely want, is an option to check their grades online.
What I've also found is that a lot of students explain that their teachers only use the LMS to post course materials, some few teachers quizzes, and almost never for discussion (which is what Drupal excels at). But grades are commonly posted when the LMS is not used at all in any other way. Drupal handles posting content (course materials) very well except for easy import and export, and there is a quiz module under development (still needs testing, though; people should jump in).
I have also talked to department program administrators who say that the ability to check grades online is the main thing that they like about LMS's because they see this as a tension with students. Some schools are now requiring that all teachers enter their grades in the LMS so that they can feed directly into the registrar as means to replace the more traditional paper or scan sheet grade submission process.
Thus, a gradebook is the main missing component that will make the difference in more widespread adoption and will be perceived as a flaw in Drupal for LMS use without it.
What specs would you like to see in a gradebook module
or, maybe this should be its own thread :)
Thanks,
Bill
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
gradebook specs
Yep. Probably it's own post.
As for what features, I'm probably not the best to ask as I have never used any online gradebook software. I do very large writing projects, and typically only give out grades 2 or maybe 3 times before the end of the semester. I figure students ought to be able to keep up with their grades when there are that few.
Still. I have some ideas. But most of all, grades must not be nodes. They must be in their own table. Access should only go to the individual to whom the grade applies and the role that is given access to create and edit grades. So the grades would show for the individual users through their my account interface and to the teacher or school administrator through the admin menu only. This is important. Higher ed institutions are extremely security conscious about grades. Making them nodes in a content management system like Drupal just opens more possibilities for the grades to be made public by some bug in Drupal or a contributed module. Making them private in their own table makes it easier for programmers at an enterprise level adoption to verify that the system is secure for grades to their satisfaction.
All sounds good
You are right on -- grades are definitely not nodes.
Part of the reason we're leaving grades until phase 2 is that we want to get some feedback on the code and how it works for students and teachers -- basically, make sure that the workflow reinforces and supports learning needs.
Then, given that grades will be attached to assignments (and comments will be attached to grades via assignments) we can build out the grading/gradebook functionality as an intuitive piece of the classroom work -- ie, a gradebook as a tool that reports on learning and student progress and invites student reflection, as opposed to a gradebook that merely reports numbers.
And, the security issues are critical to address.
But, this is a topic for a separate post.
Cheers,
Bill
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
grades without assignments
Just make sure that the gradebook is easy to use without having to create assignments. I've previously been told by teachers that they find it easier to use the LMS gradebook instead of Excel since students can then check their grades. Just after I moved to Purdue, Florida State University went to requiring everyone to submit grades via Blackboard. Rumor has it that Purdue might do something similar in the next year or two with WebCT. Then as my students point out, many teachers at Purdue are using WebCT primarily for posting grades. So what I see is that the online gradebooks are replacing the use of Excel spreadsheets or other programs for many people who don't use the LMS.
Given all of this, I'd focus on getting the gradebook working by itself and make the assignment connection later on. Make something that you find just as easy (if not easier) to work with than an Excel spreadsheet, and you'll be there. In fact, I'd think a spreedsheet style interface (but without all the spreedsheet tools) might work best. Something like NumSum. Students would be listed in the left column. Teachers could easily create a new column at which point they would give the precentage (if any; some add up points). When first creating the gradesheet, teachers would need the option of using a 100 point scale which is averaged, a 4.3 scale (which works even when the scale is only 4.0), or no scale or average. Icing on the cake would be some kind of statistics for the class, the ability to tie a grade to an assignment, the ability to have the numerical scale converted to letter grades (something which would be determined as gradesheet creation) and export to Excel (people feel more comfortable when they can keep their own backups).
One more thing
One more reflection on what I've just said. An easy to use gradesheet application could be the top selling point for many teachers.
answers
hi, when you have answers, please post on this page for school recipes
http://www.drupalecommerce.com/node/183
funnymonkey, I wrote about your site there but please feel free to add more.
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Drupal ecommerce
see http://www.drupalecommerce.com/47vs46 to read
"What are the main differences between 4.7 and 4.6?"
Drupal/moodle integration module upd 4 Drupal 4.7
More info at http://drupal.org/node/80982
Drupal ATutor Integration Module
Available from the atutor.ca web site:
http://www.atutor.ca/atutor/files/modules/drupal_atutor.zip
One Solution
This seems to be a dead thread, but I'll post anyway for those interested.
I run a home school with one student and use our website primarily for administration purposes. I've found that drupal 6.x provides most of the pieces needed, although the lack of modules that support 6.x makes me wish I'd installed 5. I haven't cracked the gradebook problem - gradebook isn't in development for 6.x at all - and I'm sure my solutions aren't the most elegant, but they work pretty well for us.
Matt
www.thesecularhomeschool.com
Usability dead forum post
Usability dead forum post pruning
1) This forum is no longer actively used. Please do not post in this forum, it will help us to keep the usability issues clear. Thank you for your help!
2) This is a feature or support request or other not related to Drupal usability.
Please see the appropriate issue queue http://drupal.org/project/issues or group on http://groups.drupal.org
If this had been a suggestion for usability improvements , I would have added an issue to the queue and posted the link here.
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