I have been floundering with Advanced Profile Kit for some time. The original intent was for it to be a kit module. I put together views, theme functions, Panels parts, and glue code into a module and gave it a basic default configuration so it did something out of the box. But the intent was that people would re-arrange it to their liking, adding stuff, taking stuff away, basically using it like Legos to build their own customized profile pages.
That was the theory. In practice, I'm getting folks who can't even get the default profile working and actually changing anything is totally beyond them. I've tried throwing more documentation at it but I don't think that's helping. So I'm thinking of changing direction.
What if I took out the "kit" aspect of it and made it more turnkey? Instead of trying to be flexible and let people do what they want with their profiles, I'd define the list of modules it's going to use, assemble everything together, and make it work with as little configuration on your part as possible. My own Coulee Region Online profiles won't look anything like what APK looks like now because I intend to use it as a kit and build something nicer. Instead of doing that, I could simply build what I plan to do on CRO into APK itself. That would make my profiles less unique, but I can live with that.
The downside of this is it won't be as flexible. Advanced users will still be able change things but there will be a lot more undoing things if you want a drastically different look. It will also delay an official release because I need to do the work of putting it all together and testing it. The upside is that having a complex profile will be a lot easier for folks who don't want to much with it and just want it to work
The question is, what do my users want? I have no way of surveying the userbase other than posting this and trying to get folks to respond. So those who speak up will control APK's destiny. What do you think?
I'll let this hang out there and get discussion for about a week since I won't have time to really work on this until next week, anyway.
Michelle
Comments
Another Option
First off, I LOVE APK. Don't get too frustrated with it.
I'm not a coder at all, but I have installed APK numerous times now. It's not THAT difficult. But I have hit snags before, so I can see the frustration you might have helping numerous others. Let me ask this question to see if there is another option than just an out of the box experience.
Is there a way to make it look like the default profiles (which everyone I've ever shown has just loved) fresh out of the box, but have a theming system to it so that people could choose other layouts? With some sort of theming system, the advanced coders could make their own themes, and then share them with others.
Again, I'm not a coder so this option may not be practical at all, but just throwing an idea out there. Of the two options you proposed, I vote for the "fresh out of the box" option because I've heard no complaints about the default layout at all.
More than theming
There's more to changing profiles around than theming. Basically, you need to learn Panels, which a lot of folks struggle with.
Glad you like it as it is. I had hoped there would be more discussion, but it is the weekend. We'll see what the coming week brings.
Thanks,
Michelle
I've not started using this
I've not started using this yet but am looking for something like this for our site.
In general simple sounds good! As long as it brings together basics like forum posts, photos uploaded and a bit for "about me"...
But as I said, not tried using it yet so don't know how easy it currently is. I would also need it to fit in with my current theme so need to be able to change colours etc easily.
Looking into this tomorow
I'm building a social networking site for 4 High School through a small government project. I'm currently looking into user profil modules to work as my core. Glad to hear that your beta release is stable. I will be installing your module tomorrow to play around with it.
This site will be for teenagers, so I like your potential plans for it to be as easy as possible. The demo is for next month, the students' release will be for October/November and the final delivery is for March 2010...
My vote:
Simplicity is my vote
Just started
Hi Michelle I think this is great I just started using it and have nit run into any issues yet.
APK - best of both?
Hi Michelle,
I love the flexibility that APK offers now. I'm using it as the base for teacher/instructor profiles on a school web site I'm building. It is really not that difficult, but I can see where new Drupal webmasters might get into a bit of trouble with it here and there. I think killing the kit and going turnkey is a bad idea, and I don't think you want to make extra work for yourself by offering it both ways. With such a wide variety of users out there, what if instead you could offer to either script out a basic configuration when it's first installed so that people can get it going quickly, or leave it entirely up to the user to configure it?
Thanks and I hope to see it keep going as the Kit - nice work here!
-=Phil
Design by comittee
Well, it's been a week and it looks like there's folks in both camps. In hindsight, maybe posting this was a little crazy. I should have figured there'd be people on both sides.
One thing I'm not sure I was clear on is that it will always be flexible, even if I make it more "turnkey". Because it is Panels based, you are free to go in and remove anything you don't like and put your own stuff in. Because it's a lot easier for people to delete than add, I'm leaning heavily towards having more there at the start. I will avoid making modules actual dependencies, though, which will keep the maximum flexibility.
I've had something come up that's kept me from working on my modules but I expect to get back to them soon and will give APK some serious attention to get it usuable for folks.
Thanks for your input,
Michelle
Panels
I just installed APK into the site I'm currently developing. I've gotten pretty good with CCK and Views but Panels was definitely a bit of a stumbling block. Now that I understand how panels works I see the possibilities. The coolest discovery for me is that you can hide panel content based on whether the person viewing the profile is the author or a visitor. For those having problems setting up a basic APK profile with the current documentation I'd say they probably could use something like a screencast. I remember when I first started playing around with drupal, I was having issues with the basic installation until I found the Lullabot screen cast. Maybe there's someone out there that knows how to do screencasts that could create one for APK, or maybe it's just giving users links to existing screencasts for Panels. Just a thought.
Brilliant module by the way, especially because of the flexibility you give us. Thank you!
I agree, Michelle, with the
I agree, Michelle, with the thought of keeping the kit as-is and just improving the architecture (or whatever other fixes/enhancements that are on the drawing board).
Personally, I'm of the mind that you can't handhold folks through everything, and minus some of the setup hiccups (like uprofile not automatically being created and having to manually import it into CCK), APK's learning curve is based on what you want to do with it, and its power is in its flexibility - which is due in large part to Panels and your design implementation.
Not to sound exclusive, but if people can't take the time to learn panels to customize their APK, then maybe they shouldn't be using APK. It's not earth-shattering stuff and just takes some time to get the hang of. The general consensus in life is that nothing worthwhile is easy, right?
I also agree with frdesign that a webcast would help those folks who aren't technical get up to speed.
Awesome job BTW.
.
The trouble is that people expect to be hand held. I can either make it so it does everything out of the box so it's simple or deal with support requests from all the people who want it to do more and can't figure out how.
At this point, though, I think time may be the deciding factor. Code freeze for D7 is imminent and I still don't have a proper APK D6 release out. Making it "turnkey" is going to delay it even further. I had hoped to start working on this by now and it keeps getting delayed. So it's looking like I just need to finish it up and release. I'll revisit the turnkey idea later... Maybe in D7. I'm going to have to shuffle things around, anyway, to account for the fact that we won't need nodes for profiles anymore.
Thanks, everyone, for your input.
Michelle
Brand new drupal developer chiming in.
I'm new to drupal. By reading other comments I think I am not alone in wanting to get something nice working quickly. I also want lots of flexibility so I can adapt the site to my particular requirements and make it unique as I gain familiarity with drupal and dozens of add on modules.
The best thing from my point of view is to make two layers. The took kit is a great foundation allowing us to create custom profiles. It would also be super if there was a usable advanced profile ready to go right out of the box. This would allow us to hit the ground running and would also provide an example of how to use the tool kit.
What with drupal V7 coming along and the other modules you are working on you must be very busy! If I were you I'd want to finish off V6 so I could focus on V7.
Thank you for your efforts, they are appreciated.
Profile Issues
Hello Michelle
I have installed the Kit and am finding the user page like this - www.bvpanthers.com.au/user
The rest of the site is fine except for the user profile section, would you have an Idea how I can solve this issue..
Thanks Your comments will very greatly appreciated.
Shanni
Sorry
I started this post for general discussion about the future of the module. It's not for support. I simply don't have the b/w to offer support on a module in active development. When it's stable and ready to use, I will support it.
Michelle
My appologies
Im sorry about that! I didnt realise there was no support. "Huff!" dont know what to do now.
okay, well thanks anyways.
Good luck with the project.
cheers
No worries
You're certainly not the first person to not read the project page. I keep updating it but I think I'm mostly talking to myself. I just added another update because getting time for APK has been harder than I expected last time I updated the page.
Michelle
KEEP THE APK - IT'S REALLY
KEEP THE APK - IT'S REALLY GREAT - JUST KEEP AT THE DOCUMENTATION PIECE BY PIECE - IT'S PRETTY EASY (I'm NOVICE) AND VERY USEFUL!
Michelle, I have been playing
Michelle, I have been playing around with the APK module for the last 3 days, No, not because I couldn't get it to work... because of how powerful it is!
I know that you say that people "expect to be hand held" but unfortunately if they cant follow directions or learn a new system, then they should not be maintaining a website...
I am fairly new to Drupal, and during my research of the CMS I ran across a post that this topic reminded me of...
When people go that far to post nonsense like that, you know that there is just no way to please everyone, and therefore you shouldn't even try...
I say, stick with your guns, and develop something you are happy with, and not something where you are accommodating people like that...
PK