Come together with the global Drupal community in Rotterdam, 28 Sept – 1 Oct 2026. Sessions, contribution, connection, and Early Bird savings until 8 June.
By davidgtuttle@gmail.com on
I am starting to come to terms with what is causing me problems with learning Drupal. I think a major part of the problem comes from the fact that there doesn't seem to be a visual architecture to the site. All of the CMS systems that I have used for enterprise work have had a visual tree structure that showed me where everything "lived" (Typo3, RedDot, MODx, SilverStripe). I am guessing that Drupal lacks this because there is a potential for many simultaneous architectures. However, in my mind it seems that there should one primary structure which determines where to find things for administration purposes. Also, the site's primary navigation should follow this same architecture (of course there will be exceptions, addendums and alternate navigation paths).
Basically, I think I am a very visual person (have you ever heard of people that associate numbers with shapes and colors OR associates factual information with visual images - yeah, that's me). The sites I have reviewed on Drupal visually correlate to the stars in the sky (possibly 3D), whereas, in order for me to understand and manage a website I want the organization to be more like a family tree (parent-child relationships).
Is my understanding correct? Does anyone else have this problem? Are there any known solutions?
I also have major problems with the modularity of the templates which make up a theme (great for an experienced Admin, terrible for someone learning). And there seems to be usability problems caused by Modules being developed independently and then attached to a common core (for example, it appears that based on the different modules in use there might be 3-4 ways to control content sorting - how is a newby supposed to figure which one to use?). BUT these are different topics for a different post.
Thanks,
David
Comments
_
There's no question that the power and flexibility of drupal, with the attendant multiple ways to skin a cat it enables, can be overwhelming for newbies. However, dumming down the CMS for that initial learning curve is unacceptable-- and once you grok the true power of drupal you'll come to feel the same way. The good news is, Dries is very aware of it and is committed to improving the UX of the drupal product (which is what most newbies are exposed to) without sacrificing the power of the framework. The same applies for the theme system-- while overwhelming at first, it enables a power and flexibility that is unmatched.
As for visualizing your site, I frequently use the http://drupal.org/project/sitemenu or http://drupal.org/project/site_map modules to get an overview.
Power and flexibility?
I have some plain talk to deliver here. Please don't take offense to my concerns and keep in mind that I am not trying to be competitive or sensational -
I disagree, "dumming down the learning curve" is essential for the growth of Drupal. My attitude towards Drupal right now is wait and see. I am a client-facing one man Tech team. I need to spend about 80% of my time talking to non-technical people and struggle to find time to jump into code. We will be implementing several large scale websites within the next 12 months. I should be the target audience for a CMS. I am going to delay the CMS decision until I am comfortable with a strong solution. In the meantime, I'll be churning out several smaller sites using WordPress and, possibly, MODx and Joomla. If I can prove that one of those CMSs works for the enterprise I will use them for the larger sites.
For now, my take on Drupal hinges on the supposed power and flexibility. I haven't really been able to verify this. Granted, the power and flexibility depends on the developer. The "power" I am looking for is something that empowers me to do more with less. Like using a nail gun rather than a hammer. I am in a situation where I am looking to use software which will not need a day-to-day developer. This should be the promise of CMS. Drupal appears to be closer to a developer platform than a CMS. Is that a fair assessment? I see that there are modules that offer the features of a CMS but I do not have the resources to implement or maintain these modules nor the time to learn how to use them or train others to use them.
My fear is that even if I pay someone to do a great Drupal implementation I will be left with a mess of modules and will not be able to support the site myself due to the complexities. Further, when it comes to doing smaller websites it will be more cost effective to use a different CMS and, therefore, we will have a variety of incompatible solutions (although, I am considering having the compatibility done of the front-end through RSS and Web services).
I am starting to fear that Drupal is something of a rite of passage. The community seems to have come together based on the fact that they have had similar sufferings. Not unlike fraternity pledges that come together after hazing. Once the challenges are conquered people become bonded and proud.
I really would love to hear from others in similar situations and, specifically, hear about which CMS they selected and why.
_
No worries-- I enjoy a good back and forth with plain talk-- with reasonable people such as yourself that is (as opposed to those with a clear agenda who are clearly not open to discussion). I will also speak plainly-- so also please don't take offense if something I say seems grating, it's truly not meant to be.
The complexities of trying to optimally manage the balance between product (CMS) and framework is an old old discussion on the drupal project. Trust me, you're not the first to mention it or want to engage in an open discourse on it. Every serious member of the community, and most tangential ones as well, are aware of it. The entire D7UX 'project' was a concerted effort, with some real money, to try and improve the disparity. The fact that it often became contentious between the pure developers and ux experts, both fiercely advocating their viewpoints, demonstrates the difficulty of such a balancing act.
Also, being still so new to the project you won't be able to appreciate the power and flexibility of drupal-- you're still in the thick of the learning curve. I'm still new enough to drupal that I can remember how that feels. But I also have the benefit of experiencing the flash of insight that comes when you finally grok drupal. It's pretty amazing. Only then will you realize just how drupal can build virtually any site you can imagine. And just so we can level set here, I am most assuredly not a developer-- just a part time code jockey. When I came to drupal I knew the basics of html and css, some vb, some sql, some .net. The sort of things people learn doing sites for their friends and relatives. And yes, the journey was painful for me-- but having climbed the infamous learning curve I'm very grateful I put in the time and effort to do so.
That's not to say I wouldn't consider using joomla or wp for projects now. They're both very good at what they do, but what they do is not the same as what drupal can do. The second you need to stretch joomla or wp for a project you're going to want to stick forks in your eyes and run screaming down the street. To use your analogy, trying to adapt joomla or wp to do something beyond their core is like trying to add a compressor to a plain old hammer and call it a nail gun-- it just doesn't fit. You're better off spending a little extra and going for the compressor and nailgun right off the bat. Then in the future, when you find you need a pressure washer you will already have the core compressor (core drupal) and you can just add the pressure washer attachment (a drupal module).
As for the specifics of managing sites once they're in maintenance mode-- there's easy and difficult ways of doing it. I manage all sites with cvs-- updating core and/or modules is a matter of a few minutes and a couple of command lines. Upgrading major versions of drupal is still more painful than it should be, but since it's much less frequent I don't consider that a showshopper and I'm hopeful it will improve with each major release. Obviously, ymmv on that point.
In the end it's all about the right tool for the job-- just as you wouldn't install a screw with a hammer, there's no reason not to use joomla, wp, or whatever if it meets the needs of a particular project.