Add Nippongo language to localize.drupal.org

Hi,

I am sorry to say, but I need to say that, this is not true.

""Nippongo" is not "Japanese" though it is a language used in Japan;"

Nippongo, Nihonngo, Japanese, it all means the same thing, Japanese. You can't buy a Nippongo dictionary and have it be any different than Japnaese or Nippongo.

I am confused really, you have never stated your reasons in English on the other posts, then you open the Japanese team up, now you try and make up another Japanese language. Really, why not just work with all of us?

Also you say this:

"I do not contribute any longer as a member of "Japanese translation team". However, I thought that I might be able to keep contributing if "Nippongo translation team" came to l.d.o."

No one has pushed you out of this role, but since you do not want this role any longer, can this role be passed on to someone else? I am not suggesting me, but someone else. Or maybe you would like to work with us and stay in this role?

Are we not all here for the same reason, is Drupal not something that was made for everyone to use as they wish? Things like this, splits, that you are trying to make, they don't help people. Open source projects like Drupal can change people and their lives. It can provide opportunities to people that didn't have one without such things. I know this, because two such projects did change my life. Now, Drupal, but before it was another, Zen-Cart, both have given me the ability to provide for my family and help others out, I credit my two kids to Open Source projects. So I guess in short, I would like to ask you to think about Japan, the good that Drupal can do, and either step down or join us to help things grow. No one has tried to push you out, we have just tried to join you and help.

I don't like saying this, but my patience has worn thin. We want to help, we care, and we are trying to give back.

Feel free to respond in both Japanese or English, I will have this post translated to both.

Regards,

Shaun

I am generally in favor of collaboration on a single project, however we have seen in the module world that competition among modules can lead to a better long term solution. That is especially true in cases where personal interactions are not good and where people simply choose not to work together. It seems that the Japanese translation project is a source of great drama and conflict. Perhaps we should allow a duplicate project to exist - users and contributors can compare the projects on their merits and choose the one they want.

There is virtually no complaint about themes that are "duplicates" of each other. I'm not quite sure why this is when many of them have virtually the same purpose (we have dozens of base themes, dozens of "grid-based-base-themes", and a handful of 960 grid system base themes - these are "duplicates" but nobody really complains about this).

There are also installation profiles which duplicate each other and they receive little attention for their duplication.

So, why not allow for duplicate projects on l.d.o?

I don't use translations much so I look forward to hearing perspectives on this topic from people who do.

I don't use translations much so I look forward to hearing perspectives on this topic from people who do.

That's what I thought when I started reading your comment. Having two competing translations would be very confusing for end users. This can't be compared to two similar themes or modules that do the same.

Note that there is a precedent for a "duplicated" project: de-informal. In German we have the choice of using differnt pronomina when addreesing people. What is appropriate depends on the context. However, I believe that both translations are actually made by the same team and the "de-informal" translation only contains the strings that actually need changing.

Also, Takafumi has not made clear what the difference would be between his version of Japanese and the other's version. I assume that both would want to have a high quality translation and don't quite understand what possible differences there might be. Maybe some examples would help.

Following what said from Takafumi, then we could create a translation group for the New York dialect of American English, which has a slightly different syntax, and its own lexicon.

The reason for asking to create a different translation group seems to be simply to be able to handle it alone.
Considering that Localize.drupal.org is an open initiative, then even with the new translation group other people could like to join and help; would we see the same scene already seen for Japanese translation group? Vice versa, if nobody would join the group, then the language used by the group doesn't interest nobody, and it should be closed because there are few people doing translations (if not just one person).

I think that it is worth remembering what the purpose of Localize.drupal.org is, which is to make updated translations available; creating a language group and allowing users to join is just the first step, but is not the main task.
Just to make an example, I could ask to create a localization group for the local dialect spoken where I live (which is not even a dialect of Italian, but it's a dialect of Lombard). For sure there is not already a translation service for such language (which has ISO 639-2, and ISO 639-3 language codes), and I would not duplicate any work already done; it is also completely different from Italian to not be considered a variant of Italian (which then derivates from a different dialect). The problem would be how much people would be involved in this, and who can start to work on translations in few days.

Hi All,

I would like to point out that in Japanese, there is no such difference from Nippongo to Japanese. There is no place in Japan where you can go and people speak Nippongo. This is just like the word for the German language in English. People from America will say German, but people from Germany will say Deutsch (I might have that wrong as I don't speak a word of German). The only difference is, that in Japan, they have two ways of saying this because the Kanji for Japanese 日本語　can be read two different ways. One way is Nihongo (にほんご)　and the other is Nippongo (にっぽんご).

So there is no such thing as this higher class of Japanese. There is not a place in Japan that you can go and people are going to speak one vs the other, because they are the same. So then to state that one is a higher class than the other, that is just saying that mine is better than yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippongo (I know it is just wikipedia, but it has a good overview of Japanese, note the redirect to Japanese, you will get the same if you type in nihongo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihongo )

Now there are some different Dialects and this gets into more of what kiamlaluno is talking about.

But I must say, that there is no Nippongo that is different that Japanese or Nihongo they are all one in the same. Just a different way to say the name in Japanese.

So please base your choice on this fact.

Maybe Takafumi, you could expand on what you mean?

Regards,

Shaun

In my opinion it is clear that this is not about dialects or languages but about the personal problems between community members: specifically about Takafumi's desire to have a language project that he alone controls. That's why I changed the nature of the issue to discuss the general case of whether or not we should allow such a thing.

Until quite recently it was very difficult if not impossible for anybody else to contribute to the translation because you effectively had locked out everybody else. So it is difficult to evaluate how much the others are going to contribute and of what quality their contributions will be.

I suggest you try to work with them for a while and we reevaluate the situation in say half a year.

I have to agree with greggles in #6-- it seems that this second group is only aimed at creating yet another translation group for the same language for the specific purpose of excluding members of the community as was attempted with the first group. This goes counter to everything open source and drupal.org stands for-- big -1.

A translation group is not something that is created to be monopolized from a single person. The task to translate requires more people, not one person who approves and 100 people who make suggestions.

After all, it is called group.

@kiamlaluno: I think so, too. So what?

So let's give the current Japanese group a chance. You are saying that "many Japanese people don't trust new Japanese translation team", fair enough, but you are part of it: work in making that change!

We might reconsider if it doesn't work out.

Wow... :/

We already allow different versions of the same language, namely Portugal has two versions for example. So let's fix this title to be more focused in terms of what is a won't fix.