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By eJM on
I am considering installing Drupal on one of my websites to help me determine if it is something I want to also use (in vB Drupal format) on another website that has a vB forum. One big problem I have noticed is that neither Drupal's or vB Drupal's websites render the same when using the latest beta version of IE7. It's very disconcerting. Please see the linked images:
www.enterprisejm.com/test/drupal_on_ff15.gif
www.enterprisejm.com/test/drupal_on_ie6.gif
www.enterprisejm.com/test/drupal_on_ie7.gif
The images are reduced to 50% of their 800x600 window size, but you will immediately see the issue. I can't see installing a program/script that doesn't work with IE7, no matter what real browser aficionados think of IE. I haven't experienced this problem on any other website that I am aware of.
Thanks for any information concering this issue.
Jim
Comments
theme issues... are not
theme issues... are not really related to Drupal itself. The theme (markup and CSS) used by Drupal.org is not distributed with the Drupal CMS. In any case, you have total control of the markup via you theme. It's true that a mojor web design problem is that of getting a site to be useable (forget looking the same) in all the common browsers.
Try browsing through the theme garden to see some of the possibilities:
http://themes.drupal.org
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Work: BioRAFT
Bluebeach
This is an issue with drupal.org's theme (Bluebeach) not necessarily Drupal. You are in control of your theme :).
See for example in the bugtracker: http://drupal.org/node/47873.
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The Manual | Troubleshooting FAQ | Tips for posting | Make Backups! | Consider creating a Test site.
Although it is some
Although it is some consolation that it is not a program-wide problem, it's not good for Drupal.org to sport a theme/skin that isn't accessible to all platforms. The casual visitor doesn't have any idea if there is a separation in programing. It's the Drupal name on the masthead.
I'll look further into it and I will undoubtedly have more questions about Drupal, which I will try to pose in the appropriate forum.
Thank you for the responses.
Jim
well - not casual
If you are using beta software, then you are not a casual surfer. If you are using beta software and do not take that into account when using it and experiencing oddities, then well, perhaps that person isn't a good candidate for beta software?
IE7b2 and IE7b3 screw up in completely different ways and if the theme had been fixed as some suggested in the IE7b2 timeframe, those fixes would again be broken in IE7b3. There were adjustments made actually in the IE7b2 too.... wasted effort.
So.... it's beta. I'm not worrying about it for my sites until we see an IE7rc1 because until then no one knows in what strange and weird ways new work arounds will have to be introduced. Certainly on my sites ie7b2 worked fine, ieb3 has a really weird issue with padding and spacing in css. It also has this same issue with microsoft.com's own site so if MS is not going to bother to fix their experience, then why should I?
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
I agree with sepeck on this
I agree with sepeck on this one - IE7 is still in testing mode, and changing all the time. From the screenshots it looks like a simple float drop, and they always look worse than they are (ie they are normally very easy to fix).
No doubt themes that are maintained will be fixed one MS decide what to do with IE7.
Yup...IE7 problems abound
For instance, the ajax stuff in the Fileshare module works fine in IE6 and Firefox, but doesn't work at all in IE7.
It is unfair to expect every
It is unfair to expect every web developer in the world to immediately adjust their website for the sake of supporting short-lived beta software. Beta software by its very nature is buggy and hey, that's life.
Beta Software
While it's true that you can't expect every developer to modify their code to work with new browsers the Drupal developers should have at least fixed this website template to work with IE7. As it is when I came here it just looked like the site was poorly written and doesn't work. Not a good first impression.
Regardless of their true intentions it leaves me with the impression that the Drupal developers are just a bit anti-Microsoft and don't really care if the site doesn't work with IE. I'm sure this isn't the case, but that is the impression that is left. Case in point; I'll bet Drupal worked with the beta version of FireFox.
In addition the site is missing a Systems Requirement page linked from the home page or even a simple listing of requirements on the download page. Also the compressed files are in a format common on Unix/Linux systems but is virtually unknown to Windows users (granted most compression software can handle the format). These are all behaviours of developers that, ironically, hate Microsoft for it's Manifest Destiny attitudes and policies but are committing those same acts of egomania when they just assume everyone is using Linux.
Just my 2 cents worth.
did you miss it?
Did you miss the system requirements link on the download page?
http://drupal.org/project/Drupal+project
Last line on the bottom.
The system requirements page is and has been located in the Installation and configuration handbook for quite a while now. You can see it on the top level of the documentation http://drupal.org/handbooks It may be that it needs to be moved. This was recently mentioned on the documentation list though this is the first time it has been mentioned.
Your assumptions are a little reaching. I foolishly modified my site based on ie7b2 and it was immediatly broken in ie7b3. I really hope the MS fixes their non standard ahndling of padding, margins and hover.
The packaging format is that simple is less breakage, combinbed with resource management. Packaging generation occurs within 12 hours of of a cvs update. If there is a lot of activity then it can have an impact. So, simple is better and as you yourself said tar.gz is extracted on Windows systems by any common extraction program. This is not anti-microsoft, this is resource management and simplicity.
Drupal runs on Windows/IIS, Windows/Apache, *nix/Apache. It is server agnostic. It used to have an MS SQL schema but the MS SQL contributor wandered off and not many Drupal devs have a MS SQL license but if a new maintainer/contributor showed up, it could easily be added again.
IE on the other hand does in fact have lots of quirks regarding it's support of CSS worldwide and it's rather pointless to try and deal with them while a product is in beta. Many MS pages display oddly or poorly in IE7b3 and IE7RC1 even. I supose this means MS is rather anti-microsoft too.
Your leaps of assumptions are rather odd. Please grant the community the curtesy of assuming that hundreds and thousands of people can hold diverse views and still work together.
-Steven Peck
Drupal Documentation Team Lead
MCP NT 3.51, MCSE NT 4.0, MCSE 2000, HP ASE
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
IE7
Since the authors original post, I believe IE7 has gone from Beta 2 to Beta 3 and is currently in RC1 stage. Each subsequent version has changed support for CSS on various levels leaving a number of sites displaying incorrectly. Also, as has been pointed out, people using beta software are usually early adopters and are not likely to be shocked when the software does strange things.
Onto your second point - Drupal is an open source project which means that all the developers are using their own time, most often without being paid, to work on the Drupal core and contributed projects (i mention paid work because modules can be sponsored at times). This is aside from the huge amount of work that goes into maintaining the site itself - perhaps editing the CSS to accomodate a short lived beta browser was not very high on the priority list.
As an aside I am a network engineer who works almost exclusively with large scale Microsoft networks. I run Drupal on Linux/Apache and Windows/IIS with very little issue on either platform. That being said, each platform has its quirks.
IE7 RC1 not displaying drupal.org correctly
Im pretty sure some-one has mentioned this already, but here goes; The current release of IE7 (RC1 7.0.5700.6) doesn't display the main content of drupal.org (at all). Comments, side bar, logo and tabs are displayed correctly. (or, the same as in firefox 1.5.x)
The problem only seems to be the in the 'content' class, as the rest of the page, including comments, is displayed correctly.
I've also read there won't be any more functionality changes till release of the browser, only bug fixes and issues they are aware of at the moment. This might be a nice time to fix the site. (I'm presuming the 'problem' stems from the site specific style-sheet, as all the default themes seem to work with IE7 RC1, as does most of the drupal site.
Kind regards,
Ward Jongbloed
http://www.trala.nl