We desperately need to overhaul Drupal's content creation.
Next time the version numbers of drupal change, we need to see to some major content creation interface overhaul.
Seriously. People have been complaining about unnecessary complexity and sheer ugly ui since '04 and earlier - and now, take a look at FactoryJoe's brilliant theoretical overhaul from last year (a project since abandoned).
We need that.
This post is just to try and raise the issue of the elephant in the room that's been ignored for so long - that content creation is still very much an afterthought to Drupal. Look at Flexinode - great, but flawed and broken by 4.7.3 right now. And then there's CCK, which promises so much, and yet still needs months of development before it's truly production-ready.
Almost every other CMS has advanced content creation right out of the box!
Drupal has been focussed on modules and extensions for too long, and we need to look at this basic requirement - we keep adding more and more power and flexibility to the system, but we've never consolidated and made it ergonomic.
Lastly, take a glance again at his ideas, and compare it what you're using right now.
Your assumptions are wrong
That WordPress has a different content edit interface, which might look better, no big deal, you basically can't extend the thing. It's a hell lot easier to create a nice looking screen when you do not need to deal with an uncountable number of fields.
And who is we you are talking of? No such thing. If you need a better interface, do it. If you can't do it, then hire someone who can.
--
The news is Now Public | Drupal development: making the world better, one patch at a time.
Why the hostility ? The guy
Why the hostility ?
The guy was just commenting on the content creation, thats all.
I mean we all have our own opinions....
huh?
Why the false assumption and attack? -Now stop and pause here. I'm sure you didn't mean your comment as an attack but it can easily be read as such.
chx's post was NOT hostile. All it was was a reply with information. That's it. It was not an attack, it was not a rant, it was NOT hostile. Please do not see a post you disagree with and immediatly assume people are hostile.
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
Drupal need improvement
I agree that Drupal need to improve the content creation.
I see that certain Drupal users always block any idea to improve the Content creation, and their reason is strange. They always say that the content creation will:
- serious bloat to the core
- make drupal not slim in size
- their users need no advanced editor
I agree to improve content creation because:
- Drupal not only has content but including: comment, blog, forum
- We need to make users easier rather than add HTML tag manually
- Adding HTML tag manually can cause the layout incorrect, because you may miss type the HTML tag
- Security Concern: adding third party editor is high risk since many attack come from the editor, like javascript exploit. having built-in editor will help Drupal users avoid such bad thing
- if Drupal have built-in editor that the file will be SMALLER! Why because we can use existing Drupal function if any, use Drupal themes, use Drupal language, etc.
How come the editor SERIOUSLY BLOAD to the CORE? Does't Drupal support modular CMS? So. this will not bload the core, it's only extend editor module in Drupal.
Guys.... let's open your mind, don't block any idea caused their come from other CMS or user that not like you that only need plain editor. Just improve Drupal and add an option to disable the advanced editor if they won't.
sigh
Not at all relavant to my comment. I suggest you spend some time reading the development list archives before accuse everyone of being closed minded. Your assumptions lack data and information.
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
Never used WordPress
chx: I've never actually used WordPress - as a blogroll system, it hasn't fit my needs. I have used e107, tinyCMS, CMSmadesimple and a few other 'small fry' systems that are doubtless beneath your notice.
I'm not talking about simply looking better - I'm talking about *functioning* better. Look at the commentary in that thread detailing a new style of use with the taxonomy - here - is that not significantly better than the current -sub_taxonomy, -sub_taxonomy2?
Try and imagine pitching the power of Drupal to an important client. They're always impressed with it's abilities - until they try to use it. It would significantly help Drupal's image and usage if this critical aspect was truly well designed.
Just imagine if the ui reflected the cleanness of the code.
Lastly, you make a valid point. I should build it myself, or pay to build it myself. I can't do the former, so right now, I'm putting down a 100$ US as a start to a bounty.
I know that's a pathetic amount compared to the work involved, but it should show that I'm serious about this. Anyone else who would to see the system revised, speak up.
Nice mock-up
Each to their own.
I think there are some great points raised there, but
.dan.
How to troubleshoot Drupal | http://www.coders.co.nz/
Collapsible fields certainly were an improvement
Some good points there - I know a lot of people don't even bother with taxonomies anymore. If that bar could be set to be an AJAX minimizable element, like Dreamweaver's left and right sliding panels, that might satisfy most folks.
I'm sure most of this probably could be done with some mighty masterful hacking of the Forms API, but I'm not half the coder needed to hassle through that. I would if I could!
Collapsible fields are not
Collapsible fields are not an answer but a prop to keep an ever complex system going.
Before orbit42.com went from portal to useless in under two errors today (check my history to see what I'm on about) I had the problem that required modules for the project made a group page be a minimum of one and a half screens wide and the fully expanded add page longer than any content I've added anywhere (not counting essays and other extended articles mostly created for offline use).
I think the death of my drupal was some sort of super good luck. I can now start again with something much more friendly to my end users. An example of what I don't want to end up with is opensourcetheology (a great discussion and a super idea) which I fand difficult touse and I've used drupal on and off since 2003/4 (not with this account though).
While my blog readers at the end of the12th (or there abouts) will have been told "Drupal is dead" I still cling to the irrational hope that actually it is in resusitation and under going emergency intensive care and might yet walk again.
Nice?
Nice? The second one's bloody genius.
Hi Squidgy, I undestand your
Hi Squidgy, I undestand your concern about content creation in drupal. I had this concern to until I very recently decided to pick drupal as my cms. I was also a bit surprized to see that content creation was not part of drupal core yet at version 4+.
I tried current stable 4.7 cck and I think it offers already a good content creation solution. It allows me to create several content types, each with its custom fields. There are several types of fields implemented, more on the way. Believe it or not, but it is already more than what most cms do offer.
Still I realize there is much to be done and this is something that MUST get in core (and it will). Also there is no simple way to display a teaser and contemplate broke during latest cck upgrade.
I pick up drupal because content creation is good for the moment, and will become excellent in a not so distant future.
As for taxonomy system, altough the interface may not look nice, I have yet to come to see another system which allows as much flexibility as drupal currently does.
Once views, cck are in core.... once the install and upgrade new systems are set.... drupal will grow out from teen age to adult age.
Brakkar
well...
You may wish to subscribe to and follow the dev list discussions.
Usability is not being ignored. However to build some flexibility for some of those improvements, foundations must be laid. 4.7 actually did include UI changes and a lot was learned from those changes. In the next version 4.8/5.0/whatever, there are major changes already in.
Installer already in.
JQuery will most likely be added. This will allow for built in fancy stuff. See http://jquery.com/ for more posibilities.
The admin section has been completly redone.
A CCK api has been integrated into core already.
Themeing for modules and core improved.
drupal.css is being seperated out and cleaned up if it's not already gone.
I forget if the undelete function made it in yet...
The way forms is handled has also been changed. This will allow for multipart forms.
So, check out the CVS commit messages. http://drupal.org/project/cvs/3060
So, usability.... What needs to be done is to download current HEAD/CVS. Look at the for what is in. Review the issue queue for existing patches that add any functionality that is desired. If exist, then test and comment. If not exist then someone needs to supply it.
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
I see every parrellel
I see every parrellel between that comment and some recent ones from microsoft re: vista and the delay since XP (now at version 5.1)
I agree but unfortunatly I
I agree but unfortunatly I believe that there is more than one elephant in the room. I can't see the people for the elephants where I am.
I think we need to declaire open season on these big gray (and smelly) things and your elephant is a very good place to start.