After looking Drupal 4.7.3, and succesfull install and customize Drupal on W2K Server, OpenSUSE and Fedora Core 5 with Apache 1 & 2, MySQL 3.23, 4 and 5 ..... then I like to share my ideas to improve Drupal:

1. MODULE
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Currently module setting available on Setting menu. I think better put the Setting on the Module itself, mean:
- admin click on the module name then the module setting displayed!

2. BACKEND
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If Drupal provide backend then we can:
- improve security access for admin, since admin do administration things in Backend
- easy to see what is the layout effect after we change some setting. Currently all frontend and backend put in one place, so admin must logged out to see what the website look like if i am not using admin rights.
- usually admin page no need to translate, because some vocabulary better not translate to admin's native language, such as: block, module, themes, etc. so we can have 2 translations: for frontend and backend. It's also help admin to understand better because most manual in english and has clear meaning than locale language (because some Computer Vocabularaty not clear when translate to locale language).

3. EDITOR
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Improve Drupal editor, let's user easy to create article with any fonts, size or color they need by mouse click rather than type the html tag manually. This is NOT mean we must use WYSIWYG Editor, we can use a technique that used by Simpleboard or Akocomment. I hope some day I can increase my Drupal skill so I can help the core team, but now, if Drupal team need to know how to do such things in Simpleboard/Akocomment then I will help to explain more. Since Drupal stuck to "slim" and not yet accept to adding "only" 300 KB for a WYSIWYG Editor then need an other way to make user easier write article without manually write HTML tag.

4. HANDBOOK
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Drupal handbook must be clean and targeted to certain users. I mean, need to create a book such as Getting Started with Drupal, without put any basic installation of mysql, how to write SQL script, Bazar-NG, how to use cpanel, etc.
This will help users with more experience easy to read the manual, I assume that mostly admin understand how to install mysql, using cpanel, etc. So will have a 'clean' and 'dirty' version of Drupal manual.

5. FULL WEB-BASED
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In the earlier posts, when userS asking "why I can not install Drupal easier like Joomla/Mambo or Wordpress?" I see that some users say that better Drupal uses their way, so users will increase they knowledge by knowing how to create database, run Drupal sql script, edit settings.php manually, etc.

So, I just read without have a faith to tell that "hey.. i think better Mambo/Joomla, why not provide an easier way?". Someone say that other CMSs is not good as Drupal. But what I want that Drupal useS any good things from other CMSs, for what? For make Drupal better and better.

And finally ..... nice to hear that finally Drupal uses Web Based Installation!!!

I read that version 4.8/5.0 will have Web Based Installation. BUT... don't stop here.... better if Drupal also support these things from Joomla/Mambo, Wordpress and PHP Nuke:
1. In the Web Based Installation, better add a checking page before doing install. We can check that PHP environtment is meed Drupal, SQL server installed, folder or file permission is correct, etc.
2. Admin can install module using Web Based too rather than use Webmin, FTP or Cpanel File Manager.

The idea is provide web based as much as possible, so everything done by Drupal admin.

PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU REPLY:
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This post is pure to share idea to make Drupal better from my point of view,
don't blame me if I am wrong, but let's share the idea. I believe sharing idea
will make Drupal better than before. Love Drupal!
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Comments

FabriceV’s picture

I agree.

I have recently discovered a new editor, not wysiwyg but that seems to fit perfectly to Drupal Spirit. WYMeditor's main concept is to leave details of the document's visual layout, and to concentrate on its structure and meaning, while trying to give the user as much comfort as possible (at least as WYSIWYG editors). With WYMeditor, the code can't be contaminated by visual informations like font styles and weights, borders, colors, ... The end-user defines content meaning, which will determine its aspect by the use of style sheets. The result is easy and quick maintenance of information.

http://www.wymeditor.org/en/

Kind regards.

styro’s picture

That looks like a really cool idea for an editor. I'm sick of fixing stuff WYSIWYG editors messed up, and this looks like it could help 'train' the users to think more of the content.

I wonder how difficult making a Drupal module for it would be?

--
Anton
New to Drupal? | Forum posting tips | Troubleshooting FAQ
Example Knowledge Base built using Drupal

desm0n’s picture

Its not a bad editor and certainly more like the vbulletin bbcode editor i was hoping for here at drupal.

However the fundemntal flaw in BBCODE type editors i see is images and the lack of being able to wrap text around them left or right. This editor has the same flaw and makes layout for most users not as easy as say the true WYSIWYG editors.

Its a good start, but still a long way of from being perfect.

Daniel R’s picture

Hello,
Please understand that a key feature of WYMeditor is to allow the designer to add classes as he wants.
You can have a set of classes you use for all your projects, plus additionnal classes for specific needs (by project).

The feature you describe is very easy to obtain in WYMeditor (in fact I use it for all our projects).

Here is how you can implement it:

Configure the classes menu to have the entries "float-left" and "float-right", setup these classes to be applicable only to img elements.

This way, the end user can click on an image then select any of the classes you prepared for him.

So, the needed class is added to the img element with a simple click, it's very safe and easy for a non-technical user.

What happens is that, for example:

<img src="myimage.jpg" alt="my image" height="100" width="100" />

becames this with a simple click:

<img src="myimage.jpg" alt="my image" height="100" width="100" class="float-right"/>

It's up to you (the designer) to define the styles in the CSS file of the website, and you have total control over it.

For example, you put this on your CSS to get the result you describe:

img.float-right { float:right; margin-left: 1em; margin-bottom:1 em}

There is a more powerful method I prefer, but very similar:
instead of making these classes apply to images, make them apply to paragraphs.
It opens very interesting and powerful layout possibilities, in a easy and secure way. I have seen many people (non-technical clients) become very creative with it, making floated texts around images, and similar layout effects without any problem.

I hope this explanation helps to understand better how WYMeditor works.

Regards,
Daniel Reszka
WYMeditor team

Current projects:
http://www.wymeditor.org
http://www.wymstyle.org
http://www.wymeditor.org
http://www.pixarea.com
http://blog.pixarea.com
http://www.wikiz.org

desm0n’s picture

Ah i didn't see the class options at the side of the demo editor.

I've just played with them and must say i'm impressed.

However clicking the source code shows this is just html, how do you see this differing to say TinyMCE ? Sorry its just i assumed this was a type of BBCODE editor and wonder where your niche is.

Please understand i'm not belittling your program in the least as its very good and works well, i'm just a little curious on what you feel the take up would be for say a TinyMCE user ?

BTW its great to have you here at drupal to discuss this.
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Daniel R’s picture

No problem with your questions, I am rather happy to reply.

I haven't looked at tinyMCE for a while so please be indulgent if I make some approximations regarding it.

First, WYMeditor is very strict on the structure of content that is inserted, and is 100% XHTML strict compliant.
(I know there is some debate on HTML strict vs XHTML strict, but if you want to process it using XML tools, you need at last XHTML compliance).

Second, everything is made in WYMeditor's approach to make it powerful in what can be made, but using a very limited set of "features", thus a very simple "workflow" for the end user.
When we present WYMeditor to our clients, we say they have to act like they are simply entering text in a database, plus define the structure (titles, paragraphs,...) They are rather happy not to have to think about presentation because everything is done automatically (by CSS + some XSL transforms in our case).

Most editors offer a wide range of features, which are totally useless to my eyes (color picker, font selection, ...), and outrageously dangerous for the coherence and the future maintenance of the site.
None of these features are needed or desirable when you can use CSS classes, which allow for a lot of creativity but in a very safe and controlled way.

WYMeditor is also special in that it doesn't present itself as WYSIWYG at all, thus avoiding confusion and eliminating the "presentational thinking" from the mind of the end-user. Its blue page background with white background for block elements is a visible example this approach. The process of site update becomes trivial since for the end user the focus is placed on content, and content only. The revealed structure (white blocks on blue bg) lead them to instinctively avoid to make the common dumb things like tapping several time on return because they want more space (thus creating empty block elements).

It's possible you can reproduce something very similar to WYMeditor in TinyMCE or other editors by tweaking its appareance and minimizing its interface to the minimum like in WYMeditor. Anyway, you will end with a lot more code and bloated tool than what is really needed by WYMeditor's approach. Plus you will have to deal in the future with the big differences between your approach and the one imposed by the editor you use as a base.

For us, it simply looked wrong, we preferred to build a new editor which is coded from ground up with this approach in mind. Sure it's more work but the freedom and progress potential is better on the long run, plus code is reduced to what is needed only.

http://www.wymeditor.org
http://www.wymstyle.org
http://www.wymeditor.org
http://www.pixarea.com
http://blog.pixarea.com
http://www.wikiz.org

styro’s picture

Thats just the kind of purpose/design I have always wanted in a editor for my users.

Another question: Would it be possible to generalise the editor for any XML format that has a DTD/Schema/RelaxNG spec? I presume each format would still need some sort of minimal configuration though (eg blocks elements vs inline elements etc).

Anyway good luck with the project. Hopefully there'll be a Drupal module for it someday :)

--
Anton
New to Drupal? | Forum posting tips | Troubleshooting FAQ
Example Knowledge Base built using Drupal

Daniel R’s picture

That's also my dream, but like for all web-based editors using javascript, we are limited by "contenteditable" (in IE) or "midas" (its Firefox counterpart). These are made to ouput HTML (messy) and nothing else, it's already difficult to make them output anything strict.
(I precise that the extrastep of processing the output with Tidy is still necessary with WYMeditor to garantee well-formedness and 100% conformity)

So no, it's no general XML editor, because it's too difficult to create one with tools available today.

But there are lots of possibilities when you consider that WYMeditor outputs XHTML strict, which in essence is XML. So the output can be passed to a XSL and transformed at will. With this technique you could theoretically output any XML format.

http://www.wymeditor.org
http://www.wymstyle.org
http://www.wymeditor.org
http://www.pixarea.com
http://blog.pixarea.com
http://www.wikiz.org

desm0n’s picture

Thank you for a very informative and very concise answer to my questions. You certainly covered the topic at hand very well indeed and hopefully this alone, and your willingness to talk to the Drupal community should, hopefully, get someone very interested in creating a wymeditor module in drupal.

On that very topic i wonder if you could voice how you would feel about that ? Is it something thats acceptable to you ? I am not in a position myself to create such a project as my coding skills are extremely limited but one of the module developers would likely be up for the challange.

How easy, or hard, would it be to incorporate WYMeditor into a text area ? Is it just a case of implementing some simple javascript into an exisiting hook in Drupal ?

Hope you don't mind us asking you these questions.

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Our mission is to discuss issues and topics of residents of Port Talbot. We provide info on events, issues, concerns and discussions of our local area.

jfhovinne’s picture

Hi,
I don't know if it would be difficult to integrate WYMeditor in Drupal - WYMeditor uses a DIV for IE and an iframe for Firefox to edit content (not a textarea) and some basic javascript code.
There's a (very simple) PHP integration example here.

Anyway, I'd be glad to help if someone is interested in this project, so please don't hesitate to contact me.

Best regards.

Jean-Francois Hovinne
WYMeditor team

Jean-Francois Hovinne

Daniel R’s picture

I have to admit WYMeditor was built with our CMS in mind. We were careful about making it a component independent from our CMS, but we did not verify if it integrates the same way as other editors.

I suppose some changes to WYMeditor are desirable to make it easier to integrate, by better "following conventions".

Unfortunately, we don't have the time necessary to make those changes ourselves or to develop modules for CMSes, because we are already very busy with our various projects and our daily jobs.

But if someone takes the challenge, and if this person needs to modify and improve WYMeditor's code, we will be very happy to help and assist.

Daniel Reszka
WYMeditor team

Searching for a new job (ready to relocate) or freelancing.
Contact me (daniel_at_pixarea_dot_com) for more info.

http://www.wymeditor.org
http://www.wymstyle.org
http://www.wymeditor.org
http://www.pixarea.com
http://blog.pixarea.com
http://www.wikiz.org

styro’s picture

I would love to get rid of TinyMCE. I don't think TinyMCE is too bad at what it does, but what WYM does seems a lot closer to what I want an editor to do.

So when I get some time I'll have a play around with it - mainly to look in more detail at how the other editor integration modules work in Drupal. Hopefully this shouldn't turn out to be too difficult.

At first glance the WYM codebase looks a lot smaller than TinyMCEs at least - kBs vs MBs.

In case anyone else gets something going before I do, I'll be keen to help out. If nobody has started anything by the time I get it working, I'll start a Drupal project for it.

--
Anton
New to Drupal? | Forum posting tips | Troubleshooting FAQ
Example Knowledge Base built using Drupal

jfhovinne’s picture

This is great news, styro!
FYI, I plan to release WYMeditor 0.2 stable later this month.
Please keep me informed if you start a project for it - thank you.

Jean-Francois Hovinne
WYMeditor team
WYMeditor - web-based XHTML editor

Jean-Francois Hovinne

tanepiper’s picture

I've actually requested this for version 6 (http://drupal.org/node/97948). Since both projects are going down the route of using jQuery at their core, I think it would make sense for both parties to work together in making WYMeditor a core feature of Drupal for it's content editor.

Certainly ideas could be bounced off each other in terms of what Drupal users would like to see, and what WYMeditor can offer.

styro’s picture

but there is someone working on a WYMeditor module with (I think) some help from the WYMeditor guys. A drupal.org project page for it shouldn't too far away at this stage, although it might wait until after WYMeditor 0.3 is released for better integration features.

Of course, corrections are welcome from anyone with more accurate info than me :)

--
Anton
New to Drupal? | Forum posting tips | Troubleshooting FAQ

Moxide’s picture

The WYMeditor module project is born :
http://drupal.org/project/wymeditor

It's based on WYMeditor 0.2 (not using JQuery), and works with Drupal 4.7.

andre75’s picture

It would be nice to be able to change the location of blocks (e.g. left sidebar, right sidebar, up, down) depending on node type, user level or path. Currently you can only turn them on and off but not really shuffle them around.
A different arrangement for a forum from the main page could make sense to lots of people.

Secondly I wish that this fix makes its way into the core:
http://drupal.org/node/78129

Andre
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VM’s picture

andre your situation is handled in block visibility overview http://drupal.org/node/64135

BioALIEN’s picture

I have already suggested this for Drupal 5.x but it seems nobody seems to recognise its importance and significance. Therefore, it has been shifted to Drupal 6.x as a feature request.

You can find the issue here:
http://drupal.org/node/92895

If many people voiced their opinions, maybe we can move this up the priority list.
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BioALIEN
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Caesar Tjalbo’s picture

just tracking.... (my Drupal page doesn't output "application/xhtml+xml" yet)