Bartik works with two sidebars or only one. While having sidebar first on the right side is more generic, it is a very dated concept (apart from not relly looking great). With the logo also on the left side, the entire thing does not feel balanced.
Most Blog themes use sidebars on the right side, even two. While Bartik should keep the option to have left and right sidebars. the default one should be on the right side. Even more modern would be not to have a sidebar at all, but I guess this is not an option for a drupal core theme.
The rationale behind putting it there (and why I think most blogs do so) is it moves the focus to the content rather than navigation and any other stuff in the sidebar. The most important post/content of your Web page usually is in the top of the content area, so it should have all focus. Also your eye cannot really float into the page, but is "stopped" by the sidebar.
Default core blocks always get put in sidebar first. It might be nice to enable a theme to choose where to place its blocks after a fresh install, but at the moment this is not possible for all I know.
A core patch to make it possible for a theme to control where the regions get put would be much better, but maybe a bit much to ask at the point D7 is at right now. Still I can hope for it silently, as this would enable theme creators to do really crazy stuff, that rivals sample content.
So for now, put sidebar first on the right and sidebar second on the left. As this is semantically illogical and I can see people objecting (since this is to be the default theme) let's see if the core change has got a chance. For now I see this as a pure design change.
Click on images to enlarge.
That's how it looks now:
This looks more modern and balanced to me
| Comment | File | Size | Author |
|---|---|---|---|
| #8 | bartik-sidebar-right.png | 157.56 KB | eigentor |
| #8 | bartik-sidebar-left.png | 146.6 KB | eigentor |
| #6 | sidebars-850562-6.patch | 2.43 KB | David_Rothstein |
| #6 | blocks_in_right_sidebar.png | 37.33 KB | David_Rothstein |
Comments
Comment #1
eigentor commentedComment #2
jensimmons commented"First sidebar" does not mean "more important sidebar" or "the first sidebar to show up after installation". The word "first" is used to mean it's the first one on the page. If there are two sidebars, in English or any LTR language (a language that is read left-to-right), the first sidebar is on the left, and the second sidebar is on the right. Then when the site is switched into a RTL language, the first sidebar moves to the right — still "first" in the order.
Supporting LTR/RTL language switching out of the box is one of the major features being added to Drupal in version 7. The switch from naming sidebars "first & second" instead of "left & right" was discussed extensively here: #226587: Default sidebar region labels are confusing (wrong) for RTL languages
It would not make sense for Bartik to deviate from the RTL support that's in D7.
Anyone who makes a Drupal site can place the blocks however they prefer, using the tools that exist now — just as you have in your screenshots. Personally, I agree that for a blog, having one sidebar on the right (in LTR) makes for a better design. In fact, for months, Bartik had only one sidebar, and it was on the right. We added a second sidebar because of the many requests for one, and to make Bartik the most flexible so people can build whatever they want.
Comment #3
eigentor commentedHm you got a point concerning the LTR. Well, to keep it consistent without any core changes, there could still be a decision made if sidebar first always needs to be on the left.
The renaming into first and second frees us to not have a fixed association to left or right. Maybe there already was a discussion about this in the Bartik issue queue? If so, please hint me over ;)
Comment #4
jensimmons commentedI think you are misunderstanding me. #226587: Default sidebar region labels are confusing (wrong) for RTL languages is where the names of the regions were discussed. And the decisions were made. And will not be changed. Sidebar first is the name of the sidebar that shows up on the left in LTR languages. There was not a discussion on the Bartik queue, there was a discussion in the core queue — last year.
Comment #5
damien tournoud commentedThe names of the sidebar "first" and "second" have been chosen to remove the dependency on the placement. The "first" sidebar is the most important one, the "second" sidebar is the other one.
There is absolutely no rule that says that the "first" sidebar has to be on the left for LTR and that the "second" sidebar has to be on the right, and the other way around of RTL. It's up to the theme to decide where it position the sidebars, and what changes from LTR to RTL.
All the points @eigentor is trying to make here definitely stand. LTR or RTL.
Comment #6
David_Rothstein commentedThe conclusion of #226587: Default sidebar region labels are confusing (wrong) for RTL languages was that by default core associates 'sidebar_first' with the human-readable name 'Left sidebar'; however, whether that is a good idea or not is still up for debate in that issue, and of course it can be overridden by individual themes (Bartik isn't even following that currently).
However, I think everyone here might be saying the same thing. In Bartik, the first and most important sidebar does display on the left. If we want to make the sidebar blocks less prominent by default, we can place them in the right sidebar via one or both of the core install profiles.
The attached patch - and screenshot - does this. I have no strong opinion on whether this is a good idea or not. (Our default install profiles aren't really optimized for a blog, though.)
If any other technical solution is needed, then I'm pretty sure this issue doesn't belong in the 'install system' queue :)
Comment #7
eigentor commentedWhile we can place sidebar first left or right as I understand now, there could be a better solution that would really kick it for Bartik and any other theme
#850964: Allow for themes to place blocks into regions of choice on install and enable
Please shoot me down on technical feasability within our narrow timeframe, but this would open a whole new world for Drupal themes.
Comment #8
eigentor commentedApplied the patch, works. So this would be a technical solution.
About the looks:
With sidebar on right:
Sidebar on left:
The more blocks are inside the sidebar, the stronger it gets, that I feel the sidebar on left is off balance. The darker the background of the blocks or the stronger the outline, this gets more.
So I clearly like it better with sidebar on right by default, but this needs more eyes.
Comment #9
eigentor commentedComment #10
jensimmons commentedI am strongly against naming the left sidebar "Sidebar second", and naming the right sidebar "Sidebar first". I am totally against that idea. I think it would be a giant new Drupal "WTF?" And it would not solve a problem.
I don't understand the point of #850964: Allow for themes to place blocks into regions of choice on install and enable. Why do we need to add the ability for any theme to set blocks on install? Only core themes are involved in the Drupal install process. Anyone who is writing an install profile to use a different theme can also, already, configure the default content and block placement in their install profile. I don't see what problem that idea solves.
A better plan is to propose that, on installation, D7 puts the default blocks in the 'second sidebar', rather than the first. That is what the patch in #6 does.
I like that idea.
It has nothing to do with Bartik. Nothing to do with the theming layer at all. It's an install profile issue, which is why I switched this issue to the install profile component in #2. Also, this a UX question for the UX team — a team that has been working on the Drupal 7 installation experience for a long time.
And remember, this does not affect the actual design of finished websites. It only affects people's first impression of Drupal, immediately after they've installed it.
Comment #11
jensimmons commentedMeh. I used "left" and "right" instead of "first" and "second".
Comment #12
eigentor commentedYeah, I also like David's approach, as is ships around the issue for core themes. So there is absolutely no need to switch left and right.
What I am after with #850964: Allow for themes to place blocks into regions of choice on install and enable is allowing that kind of thing for any theme when you enable it. I am pretty sure this is out of scope for D7, but this would be great for theme creators. Still one quickly gets to realize that it is not that easy and has side effects.
Maybe one could work towards it with a contrib module.
Comment #13
silverwing commented