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By Anonymous (not verified) on
I've done my research, and am comfortable that Drupal is the cms for me, but - after a day or 2 test driving this puppy, I'm concerned about something...
Can I use Drupal as a cms, while maintaining the XHTML/CSS/Standards-based discipline?
And an important corollary: Can I do this efficiently? (meaning, I want to make money, and have fun in the process!)
I especially would like to hear from you who use web standards.
Thanks in advance - really!
-Doug
Comments
Yes, you can. Drupal is IMHO
Yes, you can.
Drupal is IMHO the best open source CMS in supporting web standards.
Have a look at the code it generate. It's really XHTML+CSS friendly.
Fabio
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www.varesano.net - Fabio Varesano Personal Homepage
IMHO?
IMHO? Sorry. I'm not familiar with that term.
Acronym, IMHO - In My
Acronym, IMHO - In My Humble/Honest Opinion
For more of these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_slang_phrases
You've got to be kidding me!
That's hilarious. Not only do I have to learn the technology syntax of 6-8 programming languages, keeping 100's of 3LAs straight, I also have to learn a new language of Internet slang phrases. Heaven help us!!!
This is in good humor. Thanks for the clarification.
-Doug
LOL
LAWLS
Not only do I have to learn
I actually search for the meaning if IMHO when I found it from other thread and I found this thread, now I know what is IMHO.
Now what is LOL? I found many of LOLs around the net... and what is BTW?
LOL
Laugh out loud. When you pronounce the acronym as a three letter word it would sound like lawl. That is my favorite part.
Thanks. Is BTW means "by
Thanks. Is BTW means "by the way" that is how I understand it and I used it in some of my posts with that meaning in mind but I am not really sure if it is correct. This thread is suppose to be for Web Standards & Drupal, sorry.
What makes you concerned
What makes you concerned about this?
As far as I know, all output from Drupal core modules (and many contributed modules) is xhtml compliant. As long as your theme is valid xhtml, your pages should validate.
I have developed several Drupal sites rooted in web standards.
-b
The corollary should've been the primary
Now that you ask, my corollary question should've been my primary question.
You say you develop sites using Drupal. Did you ever build sites any other way?
I started my web development work hand-coding XHTML & CSS (and everything else for that matter) in TextPad. I create/develop the content using XHTML Strict, the presentation using CSS, client-side behavior using JavaScript and server-side/database stuff using PHP; the old content/presentation/behavior paradigm - right? - right.
Well, along comes the idea of a CMS and it's throwing me for a little bit of a loop. The first time I heard about CMS was in reference to Joomla!. I also had some experience with the blog engine/cms WordPress. {Actually, I built 2 sites with WP, but didn't enjoy the ride.}
I've spent 2 days now trying to get use to the dynamic of building a site with Drupal. The process is way different then hand-coding; not bad different, but different.
Honestly, I'm not sure how to stage my question(s). Maybe it's that I don't know where to start. I looked over the Best Practices", but that was mostly "setting up the site" stuff; very important - I agree - but from a production/design standpoint - not very.
One of the principles of design (linear or spiral) is this:
-requirements (business domain informed by available tech.)
-design
-production
-testing
-then back to tweaking requirements, design... and round and round it goes, for as many iterations as necessary (or until money runs out! :-)
So, with that in mind... (I know I'm teaching/preaching here, but it's helping me get out the main point.)
So, we have a given set of requirements (or we should have). We must now begin the process of designing, both Information design, navigation design, graphic design, user-interface design: ALL the design stuff. When we're comfortable with what we've developed in the 1st iteration of design, we move to production: coding up the XHTML and CSS, and then to testing... You know the routine.
How elegant - in your opinion - is Drupal in this design/production/testing process. And how do I practically go about "doing it"?
Sorry for going long.
-Doug
IMHO :) Drupal is extremly
IMHO :) Drupal is extremly elegant for a developer and end user. For developer it's a good API, clean and cultured code. For me as a designer mostly it's good HTML to wrap with CSS. For my clients it's... easy but not always intuitive. But they love it anyway.
Drupal core is fine in most cases. But contributed modules may lack some elegance. So it may not validate properly. But hey! If there is something wrong submit a bug or fix the code yourself and help a module maintainer.
Drupal Top Sites | Drupal Sites Directory
Elangant for a developer?
Let's say that I've established a "requirements document" with the client. I now go to work on design issues: nav design, interface design, general wire frame layout, etc. I've got the basic conceptual work done. Normally, I'd start building the structural document using XHTML,
for menu items, for columns, etc. I'd then go to work with CSS creating the presentation, changing XHTML as needed, and/or CSS as a design idea surfaced. I'd follow bullet-proof design/production practices.
This XHTML, CSS, JavaScript/PHP when needed approach seems elegant to me. Even if one iterates through, you still know how to work it. I don't understand how the process is suppose to work in Drupal.
My intuition says that once I get it that this is going to be great.
Please help me to understand where to start. With some endurance, I can get the system admin stuff figured out, but the design/production process is what I'm needing help on.
-Doug
For say mass production
For say mass production sites (small-medium corporate, blog alike media) my workflow is about like this:
1. Understanding content structure and basic visual layout with client.
2. Planning which modules will be used based on that (it's good to know how most of them work so you choose the best minimal amount of them for your project).
3. Basic setup for modules, structure and navigation (configuring node types, taxonomy, menus, etc...)
In my case production splits here in two parts (it goes in parallel development):
- Content creation, copy-writing, image preparation made by my partner.
- Custom theme, graphics and fine tuning module setup, possible module tweaking made by me.
Then goes minor visual/navigation tweaks, quality assurance, release and WOW! from a client :)
Actually this process rarely involves any PHP coding except for some PHP snippet usage. And as Drupal core and modules gives you enough functionality and XHTML output the biggest custom job is CSS and graphics (and content is normally provided by a client). But you may need (quite rarely) to change some code in the modules to make XHTML output your way.
As for CSS I have my own bulletproof and cross-browser tested classes for basic elements like layout, menus, nodes, comments, sidebars etc. So the whole development is quite streamlined.
More sophisticated projects are going about the same way. But with something unusual quite often you have to back and forth on this workflow trying the best way.
Drupal Top Sites | Drupal Sites Directory
I blogged about this
I blogged about this here:
http://www.cortextcommunications.com/node/553
Cortext Communications
Drupal Themes & Modules
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Drupal Specialists: Consulting, Development & Training
Robert Castelo, CTO
Code Positive
London, United Kingdom
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Nice one
This is great news and thanks for sharing. It looks like i'll be switching from Joomla! to Drupal after reading your blog post at: http://www.cortextcommunications.com/node/553
I've had enough of an outdated (Joomla) CMS under the hood, hiding behind some eye candy to look modern.
thanks,