I'm looking at bidding on a project but alas the details are very sparse:
Drupal Installation
Debian Installation
Drupal Theming Blog Setup/integration, including Blog module,
Captcha / Akismet,
Facebook & Twitter updates, WYSIWYG Editor
Password Protected Pages (roles)
Image Upload
Heat Maps
Slideshows
Video
Search
Print/Email buttons
Constant Contact
Google Analytics
SEO Tools
XML Site maps for Google Webmaster Tools
Breadcrumbs
Thing that worries me the most is a fancy PSD design that needs to be themed?
I'm sure without that a couple of grand would be OK?
You thoughts? (This is the second vague RFP I've gotten in 2 days!!!) I understand that most people who are looking for a site are non technical but something like interface with blah database is a little vague in my book.
Cheers
Mag
Comments
You might want to sit in on next week's Drupal Dojo session
On RFP's. Personally I've come to the same conclusion as a number of other developers -- responding to RFP's is a waste of everyone's time. The whole process puts you in as a developer 1/2 way through the process, without enough information to proceed.
Personally I don't think a couple of grand is enough money to do most any site of any complexity. And this is such sparse info that it could mean ANYTHING. IF this is all the info I can get, about all I can do is quote an hourly rate and say that it's gonna cost what it's gonna cost.
Steve Hanson
Publisher Eye On Dunn County
https://eyeondunn.com
Thanks
I'm a one person show so my costs are less than bigger operations but I still don't want to work for Mc Donald's pay rates :) Seems like everything on Craigslist is like this. These guys are a non profit. But turning it around, there are the client and they are gonna pay us good money so it's up to us to attempt to get out of them what's really needed. Problem is someone else will just say they're gonna do it for 2k and then when it actually comes to the 30 hours of slicing up the PSD file they'll not be able to do it.
Perhaps a very specific quote with what I'm gonna do and what I'm NOT gonna do might suffice? Just looked at that Dojo session, wow, exactly what I needed. Thanks. Is there a cost to attend the sessions?
I'd run in the opposite
I'd run in the opposite direction.
But seriously - Debian installation? Talk about lack of scope...
For a couple of grand I'd
For a couple of grand I'd make a site with Wordpress, at a simple host, use a custom template, change out a few pictures, and add the few pages needed 10 pages perhaps.
The themeing will probably be worth a couple of grand at least by itself, btw.
Hourly wage around USD 100,- at least. Remember, insurance, money towards vacation, insurance for the project (legal disputes, etc)
Let us see at what you have there:
What is the hosting environment? It seems to be Debian and, that suggests an inhouse server. Setting it up will probably use a lot of time; you might have to install packages for security, and packages to support Drupal/Apache/Mysql. Quickly at least a day.
Video is always fun.
Do you have to teach them how to use this afterwards?
Wysiwyg is moving target on Drupal. Perhaps they'd like to show videos at certain points.
Do the require special care about captioning of images/videos?
Without more specifics it will be very hard to keep this on schedule. How will you get a proper hourly wage out of this, if you set a price, make sure it covers your work: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/07/08/renegotiating-the-contract-an...
In general programmers usually underestimate their hours. Important stuff like documentation, testing, instructions for users, tweaking of "insignificant" features. Feature creep...
Finally, what denotes the site as finished? You have to strive for clarity and specifics.
Paul K Egell-Johnsen
Thanks again.
Thanks for all the great feedback- I feel a lots more at ease now and glad to know that it's not just me who's questioning these "thin" RFPs. This probably also explains why some projects I seen have already been worked on my other drupal developers who ended up leaving the project half done or in dispute with the Client. Also doesn't help to be a one person show, kind of in a vacuum here too even though we have groups like this it's nice to collaborate.
Being in the $1k / 2k space is also not a great place to be. You either want to blow them out dirt cheap $400 or be in the higher end where the client will actually sit down and plan the project with you AND pay for it. Hmmm love drupal but as far as paying the bills goes it's a tough one.
One more thing. Those paying
One more thing. Those paying the least are always those asking for more. Find real clients that understand economics. Get into an affiliate program and send "clients" like the above to some kind of turn-key site.
Paul K Egell-Johnsen
That just underscores my
That just underscores my point; a lot of developers underestimate the work. I looked up "Constant Contact", that seems like a pretty complex module. And remember, for everything you set up they will ask for customization. E-mails upon subscription to the site, then probably html e-mails, it all adds up and adds up. Then they will complain about the speed, and you have to try to optimize that.
Slideshows are a pest as well, who will upload the photos? Who will style the slideshow? What happens when they write too much text and the nice layout breaks b/c of that?
And breadcrumbs...it has been a while since I cared too much about them, but I remember it was a bit of a pain. And you need to find a system for their menus.
Ouch, Drupal is really too big for people who won't pay more than a couple of thousand dollars. IMHO. Even if you are a top notch Drupal architect, have version control working and pre-made install-profiles for the most basic stuff, the amount of work adds up pretty quickly.
I forgot to add pension, deprecation of computers, educational fund for yourself (drupal cons, books, inspiration, paying your college debts?) office space (even if you use your attic you are paying for it somehow) into your hourly rate. I'm assuming you're American and need to think of everything yourself. USD 100 seems low now.
SEO tools seems vague. Does that mean an googlr analytics account, path auto, meta tags and such? or much more? every module rwquires more of the client, and more things they will ask for customization, support and bug fixes for. BTW whao will do the support? will they pester you and not pay properly.
Clear boundraries are neeeded, or only hourly rates. I also would suggest finding some partners a kind of drupal collective, then you can back each other up, and you limit the market a bit for prospective clients, and you can have a bigger portfolio to show off. you might just offer a common front, but bill your own clients.
break it down into chunks. Debian install 3 days, Drupal core install 2 days, and then i give up for now.
Paul K Egell-Johnsen
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If you're really good at what
Focus on improving your skills, and get far away from craigslist-clients.
True story:
Prospect: "We want a facebook clone for the Spanish community."
Me: "Ehm ok. Do you have a busisness plan? What is your budget?"
Prospect: "We are still working on a business plan. Our budget is around 100$"
Oh, one tip: when you talk
Oh, one tip: when you talk about costs, talk in terms of "days" rather than "hours". If you talk about hours, clients may get the impression your work is easy.
A couple of grand is what I
A couple of grand is what I can go with this requirement.
But yes, as Steve said, responding to an RFP is almost wasting of time. Clients should already have their preferable vendor, and RFP is just to get enough bids.
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