I personally think it's high-time we update the label/description for the "Package quantity" field on the product creation form. Many, many people have been confused by this field, and most leave it at 1, which will often cause problems when retrieving shipping quotes.

The problem is that the language used to describe the field is confusing. Currently the label is "Package quantity" and the description is "For a package containing only this product, how many are in it?" which I don't think makes much sense. Especially when the intended meaning is "AT MOST, how many of these products can fit in ONE box?"

I propose that we change the label to "Maximum package quantity" or maybe "Maximum per-package quantity", but more importantly I think we should change the description to "At most, how many of these items can you fit in your largest box? Orders that exceed this value will be split into multiple packages when retrieving shipping quotes."

That's what I form_alter() in there on my sites and at least to me it makes a lot more sense.

Open to suggestions for different verbage but I strongly feel it needs updating.

Thanks!

References:
http://www.ubercart.org/comment/24460/Re_Shipping_calculations_incorrect
http://www.ubercart.org/forum/support/6049/ups_shipping_quotes_not_right

PS - Not sure if I got the version/component correct, but I'm using the latest stable (6.x-2.4) and it's still the same as before, so I guess this is for the -dev branch?

CommentFileSizeAuthor
#9 907848-package_qty.patch4.06 KBlongwave
#3 ubercart-package-quantity.patch1.08 KBroper.

Comments

tr’s picture

tr commented

Yes, I agree, and I also think the default should be 0 (meaning "unlimited") rather than 1. Can you roll a patch to fix this?

roper.’s picture

roper. commented
Status: Active » Needs review
StatusFileSize
new ubercart-package-quantity.patch1.08 KB

Ok this is the first patch I've ever written. I use Eclipse and a lot of its configuration is somewhat confusing, so this may not be the right format or from the right root, etc. Hope it helps though. Any tips appreciated.

roper.’s picture

roper. commented

I know this is pretty minor, but... bump..?

longwave’s picture

longwave
he/him
Primary language English
Location UK
commented

The description should perhaps include a note to say 0 means unlimited, otherwise the default of 0 sounds strange ("no items fit in my largest box").

tr’s picture

tr commented
Status: Needs review » Needs work

Your patch makes the default 0 but doesn't actually change any of the shipping quotes modules, so this new default will actually break the packaging algorithms.

roper.’s picture

roper. commented
Status: Needs work » Postponed

Fair enough, I wasn't aware that "0" didn't already mean unlimited, I thought I just had to change the default/description. If all the "0 = unlimited" stuff needs to be added into the shipping algorithms et al. then I'm afraid I don't have the time to look into it too much ATM, but I will come back to it.

tr’s picture

tr commented
Status: Postponed » Needs work

Leaving this open, because it's something that needs to be done.

longwave’s picture

longwave
he/him
Primary language English
Location UK
commented
Status: Needs work » Needs review
StatusFileSize
new 907848-package_qty.patch4.06 KB

Patch attached that should resolve the issues in #5 and #6. Needs review and testing, because I don't use UPS or USPS.

tr’s picture

tr commented
Issue tags: +Release blocker

Tagging.

tr’s picture

tr commented

Text was already changed in the 7.x branch, I changed it just now in the 6.x branch to match. I didn't change the default qty yet. However, I think the packaging code in 7.x has been changed to handle a default of 0 properly. Putting this on my list of things to test...

mertskeli’s picture

mertskeli commented

Yes, the discription is clumsy, but I assume it has nothing to do with "max" quantity, and can not be "0" (nothing inside?).
It is an exact nubmer, and the default "1" is more than adequate. Have you ever met a box with unlimited things inside?
If an admin does not know the real quantity, or it is not important, let it be just empty.
As for the description, it is something like "Units (or Pieces) per package."
For a beer pack it would be 6 pcs (cans), lets say.

mertskeli’s picture

mertskeli commented

(removed duplicate)

tr’s picture

tr commented

@mertskeli: Yes, it does have something to do with "max" quantity. This is a very important number for packaging/shipping, and causes a lot of problems for many people because the default is 1. A default of 1 means that only 1 item can fit in a package, so when someone orders 10 items the shipping cost is calculated for 10 packages. If you search the forums here and on ubercart.org you will find dozens of posts complaining about shipping costs that are way too large - all of those problems are because the package quantity defaults to 1. The common use case for most stores is to ship all items in one box, so a default of 1 is just wrong and unexpected and leads to problems with shipping costs which aren't obviously related to something in the product settings. "unlimited" means don't limit the number of items in a box. As a default, that is much better because it reflects reality for most stores. The suggested replacement text explains this adequately: "At most, how many of these items can you fit in your largest box? Orders that exceed this value will be split into multiple packages when retrieving shipping quotes."

mertskeli’s picture

mertskeli commented

Shipping has always been charged per weight or volume (whichever is bigger), and never per quantity.

A default of 1 means that only 1 item can fit in a package, so when someone orders 10 items the shipping cost is calculated for 10 packages.

Exactly.

dozens of posts complaining about shipping costs that are way too large - all of those problems are because the package quantity defaults to 1

All those problems are because the initial data for shipping calculation is set in the wrong way by shop owners/admins. It is not UC fault.

The common use case for most stores is to ship all items in one box

This box is not the package quantity field we are talking about. We are talking about "product package" and not "shipping (dispatch) package".

So once again, shipping has always been charged per weight or volume. Never per quantity.
All those questions like "what is your store's largest box/bottle/etc?" should be out of a product node. A product has weight and dimensions, and that's enough for correct shipping calculation.

tr’s picture

tr commented

@mertskeli: Nope, you're totally wrong. You don't understand the issue or how shipping works in Ubercart.

mertskeli’s picture

mertskeli commented

No, I am not wrong, sorry. We must be speaking about 2 different things. Are we talking about "number of packages" or "number inside a package"?
Anyway, it can not be unlimited.

Status: Needs review » Needs work

The last submitted patch, 907848-package_qty.patch, failed testing.

hles’s picture

hles commented
Priority: Normal » Major

I pretty much agree that 0 is not appropriate, it does not mean illimited and brings confusion. I think the admin should be able to not set this field and leave it empty, and that would be a default. In that case, it would be considered "illimited" by the algorithm, which would fit most store owners.

tr’s picture

tr commented
Version: 6.x-2.x-dev » 8.x-4.x-dev
Priority: Major » Normal
Issue tags: -Release blocker