Vague bug report about Views 3.x with no useful information

It is of no value to the project to post vague bug reports like this. Without specific errors, there is nothing we can act on.

The issue queue is not a place to basically write reviews or warn people off of using software. Please use your blog for that kind of thing. The Views' issue queue is a place where a lot of people work to try and improve the Views project.

This one is a difficult one, because I sense that you posted this with the intent of trying to be helpful, but the opposite effect has been achieved. We now know you had a problem, but we have no idea what that problem was. We don't know that the problem was even related to Views, really, it could easily have been some other module that isn't yet updated to Views 3. Just as one example of things that might have gone wrong.

@onlineguy
It's just such a perfect example of missing information.

I suggest you to have a look at http://drupal.org/node/add/project-issue/views

There is written that

Before submitting an issue to Views, you are responsible for reading and understanding the Views issue submission guidelines. Failure to read and understand this page will result in your issue being marked "won't fix".

So based on this stuff your issue should be different, but we need this issue as example.

I simply ask you, in the future please do not harshly and hastily re-title my posts with no effort in seeking a solution to a real, ongoing problem in active code.

Whoa, hold the presses and stop. Did you actually read my reply?

First, I needed to set up a more useful title, because the title you gave provides no information to someone scanning the rather large issue queue. Unfortunately, when I distilled the information out of your post, the title I set summarizes precisely what I got.

You provided no useful information. I am not able to read your mind nor will I take wild guesses as to how your system was configured or how to produce the situation you have. I understand that, yes, you were running into an error. That's great. The problem is, you also posted this issue with the apparent suggestion that you had no interest in fixing the error, but instead of maligning the software suggesting people not use it. Not useful. If you wish to do that, there are other forums for it, but the Views issue queue is the one I control.

Let's list the problems with your post, and we don't need the Views submission guidelines to tell us what's wrong. Really, everything here is relatively common sense:

You did not actually provide the error you were getting.

Let's quote: but we were getting many DB errors, especially with respect to Anonymous DB users, apparently something to do with uninitiated variables.. That's all the error conditions provided. Exactly how am I supposed to interpret this? If you honestly believe that there is anyone who can take that sentence and know what you mean, then you attribute great, great powers of mind reading to us. I challenge you, when next submitting a request for support--and this goes for any channel, be it in Drupal or opensource or on the phone with your credit card company or your telephone company or your automotive mechanic, please assume that the person you are conveying information to has no understanding of you, your setup, your job, what you've done, how you've used the product, and what you see, have seen or will see.

Quote: Our Drupal 6 / UC project is nearing completion and we have many other tasks to complete, and no time to do code debugging.

That's great. You more or less admit, straight up, that you have no time to actually provide the information that you know is needed.

I'm sharing this to save others time.

This tells me you have no interest in actually getting this bug fixed at all. This issue is, by your own statement, a warning to not use this version of Views.

Responding out of order now:

Pfft! I wonder what crawled up your bum, merlinofchaos. I know you're 'BMOC' and I'm 'nobody' around here, but your reply doesn't rate further comment.

First, clearly it did rate further comment, since you went on.

Second, I thought I communicated what was wrong quite clearly. I communicated what you did wrong significantly more clearly than you communicated what was wrong with the software. If I was harsh, it was simply that I can't act on a bug report with no information. I was trying to inform you what you did wrong so that you could correct the situation. If you do not wish to, that is fine, but that ends the bug report. If you wish to correct the situation, that also is fine, but being combative about it isn't going to convince anyone to spend any more time on your issue.

How about crunching down equally hard on my other (related) post: http://drupal.org/node/951578

1) That's a forum post, not an issue.
2) That's about Drupal core. I maintain the Views project (as well as Panels, CTools and a couple of others). That's outside of my area of interest.
3) I don't understand why you reference something completely unrelated. Or maybe it's related and there's no way to tell. See above about the amount of useful information you've given.

The other module to which you vaguely allude: possibly the "filter.module" in Drupal 6.19 (current) core. Thanks?

I don't know what this even means. I alluded to a core module? Maybe my allusion was my comment that I cant even tell if the problem is even a Views problem. Well, I can't. Please forgive me, but as I said above, I'm not a mindreader.

Status: closed (cannot reproduce) » needs work

It would help everyone if you'd spend a few minutes learning what the issue statuses actually mean. I realize the issue statues are not completely straight forward, and I can't do anything about that, as I am not in control of them. In this case, 'needs work' indicates that there is a patch underway, usually that has been reviewed and failed review.

But beyond getting the wrong status, the proper response would have been to set the issue active and provide the information necessary for us to identify your issue.

Now, is anyone here willing to click the link I included in my retort to merlin's 'review' (a second possibly-also-semantically-defective post I'd written with no knowledge I'd been so offensive with the one above)

I presume there is also a rule in the guidelines saying if you can't fix a bug, just CRITICize the folks who point them out, too. Nice. Okay, so submission is not my best skill. Neither is CRITICism. I spend more of my time building things than picking others' work apart. Honestly.

Have you ever built anything that required user support? Have you ever actually been involved in these kinds of interactions? The message that runs through your post, in nearly every sentence is "THIS IS BROKEN FIX IT". Again, and I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over again, but it is imperative that if we are going to address your bug -- and at no point did I ever suggest your bug would not be addressed -- is that the proper information required to identify and reproduce that bug be produced.

It is strange to me that you find what I found to be a straightforward commentary on this to be so harsh. I have said nothing personal about you, though you've offered insults and condescension in reply. I admit that, personally, I have little interest in helping someone who offers insults (and if you need to ask, the BMOC/I'm nobody is the particular insult/condescension I'm pointing to). That said, if you wish to cooperate and provide useful information, I will do what I can.

If you prefer to feel like a martyr, be my guest. You've already stated that you don't have the time "to do debugging" which I interpret to mean you don't have the time to provide the necessary information. If you don't, then that's pretty much the end of it, and when someone else runs into the problem you ran into, hopefully they will report it with enough information to address it. It is sad, to me, that you chose to interpret my response as a personal criticism. I suppose that the appropriate answer would have been to simply close the issue with no comment. That would have avoided offending you, to be sure, but then you would not be in the position understand what you did wrong here, and modify your behavior.

Let me close with this, quoting myself:

This one is a difficult one, because I sense that you posted this with the intent of trying to be helpful, but the opposite effect has been achieved.

I really did believe, at first, you were trying to be helpful. In fact, the reason that you've gotten a book of text here, rather than simple reversion to closed (won't fix) status, is because I believed that you probably intended well, but simply failed to execute on your intention. If you feel you have been treated harshly, or poorly because of this, well, I guess that's the breaks. Unfortunately for you, I am not an AT&T customer service representative paid to tell you that the customer is always right. I am a person who works on this project out of passion and desire for what I do and what I create. I take slights a little bit personally because of this passion, but I also do not feel, for one second, like I need to be beholden to someone who comes off to me as feeling entitled. The Gnu Public License stipulates that this software is provided AS IS and without warranty. If you want to be a part of improving that software, that's great. Please be a part of it.

But please do not expect anyone here to dance on a string for you. This is open source, and everyone in the community is expected to contribute. That's why the software is "free". You don't pay for it in money, but there is still a cost.

Ahh, you wrote a much worse post while I was writing the last one.

and that is, it is also not helpful for maintainers to keep trying to 'sell' buggy code (guinea pigs like me form an odd test base, don't we?).

You're referring to Views 3.x.

You have a -dev version of a piece of software that is only released as an 'alpha'. In case you aren't aware, 'alpha' means that the software is incomplete. Also, it is buggy. Alpha software is known to be buggy.

Also, I didn't sell you anything. I have not received one cent, in any way, shape or form, from your use of the software. You, in fact, are likely making money off of my work. So who's the one doing the selling here?

I wonder if you imagine how much time and energy was wasted because this module (and possibly moreover, the filter.module core module's bug that's potentially much more significant) had to be rolled back by at least three people (leading to the error for which we're all now seeking a solution)? It's already holding up my project weeks, and every day lost is a day I get closer to unemployment if my employer goes under because I can't deliver a working site.

Very well. Here is my offer:

I will give you a full, unconditional, 100% refund of every cent you paid me for this software. In return, you might consider please uninstalling my software from your system and finding another solution.

Also, once again, dereine and I work on Views. This is the issue queue for Views. filter.module is Drupal core. That's a different project, and it is unrelated to Views beyond the fact that Views uses its data and API. I can't help you with problems with filter.module.

That said, I'm now actually angry, and I assure you, you will receive no support, nor help, nor responses from me in the future. I apologize for attempting to take a conciliatory tone in my last post. It was not deserved, and I have already spent entirely too much time trying to deal with you. I will not make that mistake again.

Also, fixing issue settings because apparently onlineguy felt like twiddling some of them randomly in #5.

http://drupal.org/project/issues/drupal?text=&status=Open&priorities=All...

Just to prove that you do something wrong.

@onlineguy: Ok, give us some actual error messages to work on. Please?

lol

The problem is special.

Based on your backtrace it's possible to see that

you updated to views3 and saved the views.
you changed back to views2 and expects that it's forward compatible. This is just not possible.

Save the view again and take sure your footer/header/empty text settings are fine.

Totally not minding-my-own business here...

@onlineguy - in case you have missed it, this is the Drupal code of conduct: http://drupal.org/dcoc which notes "We might all experience some frustration now and then, but we cannot allow that frustration to turn into a personal attack."

Merlinofchaos' initial response to you was only informing you of proper use of the issue queue, and was in no way a personal attack (I suppose maybe you misinterpreted the change of title as being a dig at you, rather than purposed towards noting for other Views devs not to spend time with the issue.) Your following comment was instantly a very insulting attack on him.

This is no way to get *FREE* volunteer help, especially from very busy and dedicated members of the community. This is not a one-off case, as can be seen through a few of the other posts in your Tracker history which look very similar to this.

Please do take a step back, and next time you need help, use the appropriate method (IRC or the Forums for support, or if that is not successful, filing an issue marked "support request"; properly formatted issue queues for true bugs/support requests/feature requests; Forums, your blog, or even various http://groups.drupal.org groups if you just want to discuss something).

This along with a bit of a calmer attitude will get you much further when you need help.