WEBVTT 71 00:07:57.400 --> 00:08:07.950 Benji Fisher: Welcome. This is the 2 full usability meeting for February seventeenth, 2,023 I'm Benji Fisher moderating, and also present our largest scholar, who is sharing his screen. 72 00:08:08.060 --> 00:08:12.650 Benji Fisher: and we'll start off the discussion. Aaron Nickel. 73 00:08:14.090 --> 00:08:17.710 Benji Fisher: Ralph Kohler and Simo Helston. Go ahead, Larry. 74 00:08:18.460 --> 00:08:21.180 Benji Fisher: Thank you, Benjy. 75 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:27.440 Lauri Eskola: Right? So the issue number that we are talking about right now is 2 4, 76 00:08:27.570 --> 00:08:31.390 Lauri Eskola: 5 8 1 2 7. 77 00:08:31.540 --> 00:08:33.690 Lauri Eskola: The issue title is Show field. 78 00:08:33.750 --> 00:08:50.560 Lauri Eskola: slash, field, storage, summary instead of field type on Field Listings, and this is being reviewed by the team previously. But I wanted to bring this issue to the attention of the team because of the specific wording that I wanted to double check with the team to make sure that it is 79 00:08:50.710 --> 00:09:00.010 Lauri Eskola: the the right one just to summarize the issue, that the issue is to show additional information about both 80 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:09.790 Lauri Eskola: about the field. So both the field storage and the field instance, when we are showing a list of fields that belong to a content type. 81 00:09:10.280 --> 00:09:15.780 Lauri Eskola: And so I have that over here, so I can show how that looks like right now. 82 00:09:16.420 --> 00:09:35.030 Lauri Eskola: just to give a little bit of an idea what that actually means. So in some cases, for example, in the case of entity, reference right? Now, the field type says that it's an entity reference, but it doesn't explain you any of the Ca critical aspects of that data reference, such as what 83 00:09:35.030 --> 00:09:47.840 Lauri Eskola: into the type we are referencing, or what bundles are selected for the reference, and those are often quite important for understanding what you can actually do with the field. Sometimes it 84 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:51.200 Lauri Eskola: can be obvious, based on the label and machine name, but 85 00:09:51.320 --> 00:10:02.360 Lauri Eskola: sometimes that might not be the case. So that's why we are adding some new Api that allow us to get this information from these fields, and show it 86 00:10:02.380 --> 00:10:05.410 Lauri Eskola: as part of this list. and 87 00:10:06.350 --> 00:10:17.660 Lauri Eskola: the specific aspect that I want to. If there's other feedback, i'm. I'm. Open to any feedback that we have about this change. But the specific aspect that I wanted to discuss 88 00:10:17.710 --> 00:10:24.790 Lauri Eskola: at least at first, was the wording of this the label of how we introduced 89 00:10:25.520 --> 00:10:30.210 entity type that we are referencing to. And right now it says, reference entity type. 90 00:10:30.300 --> 00:10:34.110 Lauri Eskola: and that I i'm. I'm. 91 00:10:34.910 --> 00:10:51.260 Lauri Eskola: I'm not sure if i'm right about this. But I think the term entity is something that we are not using very often in the Ui, at least in the field. You. I was quite hard to find any usage of the entity. There are few, totally, but it seems like we are kind of 92 00:10:51.420 --> 00:10:57.140 Lauri Eskola: dancing around the concept of entities when we introduce concepts in 93 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:03.440 Benji Fisher: pop, pop. Pause for a moment. So I I think the screen you're looking at already, has the patch applied. 94 00:11:03.530 --> 00:11:05.580 Lauri Eskola: Yes, it has to patch applied. 95 00:11:06.060 --> 00:11:11.950 Benji Fisher: Okay, so just I just want to make sure that everyone understands the context. 96 00:11:12.210 --> 00:11:14.850 We're looking at the managed field screens 97 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:23.690 Benji Fisher: without the patch that column under the field type. Those are all links, Aren't, they 98 00:11:24.020 --> 00:11:26.630 Lauri Eskola: going to the 99 00:11:27.380 --> 00:11:31.700 Benji Fisher: This set the the storage settings, not the field settings. 100 00:11:33.740 --> 00:11:38.170 Benji Fisher: which you can also get to from the the operations column. 101 00:11:38.780 --> 00:11:41.480 Benji Fisher: We're exactly Thank you. 102 00:11:41.820 --> 00:11:47.850 Benji Fisher: So this is the page that the links would go to. So so part of this issue is to 103 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:55.720 Benji Fisher: remove those links, so that the only way you can get to that page is is the link that that Larry just just showed us. 104 00:11:57.930 --> 00:12:05.340 Lauri Eskola: So it looks like we're not linking to anything at this point. But we're adding more more text to the field type columns that right? Yes. 105 00:12:05.800 --> 00:12:08.500 any other questions on the context. 106 00:12:11.030 --> 00:12:15.460 Benji Fisher: I just checked, and I commented on this issue over 5 years ago. 107 00:12:18.350 --> 00:12:23.220 Benji Fisher: and and as as I said, it did come up at the usability meeting. 108 00:12:23.660 --> 00:12:29.050 Benji Fisher: Okay, so go ahead. So your questions about the particular wording of you using the word engine. 109 00:12:29.250 --> 00:12:39.140 Lauri Eskola: Yes. So so right now we are using the the term reference into the type. But the end. The entity, is not a word that we commonly use 110 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.470 Lauri Eskola: in the Ui, and for that reason I was thinking, If 111 00:12:44.150 --> 00:12:50.390 Lauri Eskola: first I want to develop any of that, what's the case? Because I know that you have worked on a lot of issues where 112 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:56.590 Lauri Eskola: that touch these kinds of wordings. And then, if that is the case, then do 113 00:12:57.250 --> 00:13:02.350 Lauri Eskola: see if you have any sort of commonplace, or or I would say. 114 00:13:03.230 --> 00:13:10.120 Lauri Eskola: learning from those previous issues on what kind of what kind of alternative terms we we would be using Here. 115 00:13:11.140 --> 00:13:12.710 Aaron, Go ahead. 116 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:17.390 Aaron McHale: Thanks. Fancy Sorry I just gonna to drink some, Walter. 117 00:13:19.390 --> 00:13:25.680 Aaron McHale: Okay. So I I think in this in this case, yeah, we we generally try to avoid like exposing 118 00:13:25.930 --> 00:13:38.370 Aaron McHale: the word and see in the Ui. I. I have a feeling. The reasoning generally is because we want to be more specific, like, instead of talking about media or talk about taxonomy or content you. 119 00:13:38.380 --> 00:13:46.150 Aaron McHale: In in this case I feel like it will be hard to avoid it, because we're talking about an an entity reference field. 120 00:13:48.350 --> 00:13:58.860 Aaron McHale: I'm. so to me if I was coming here. and I was looking at this, and I was configuring that it it wouldn't. It would probably make sense to 121 00:13:58.990 --> 00:14:03.340 be using the term entity because I don't. I don't think we have a bad way. 122 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:20.770 Aaron McHale: I'm aware of to describe that that is what we tend to call it. you know, an inc reference field. So yeah, I I don't see a particular issue in this context with the technology. In fact, it's probably good that we're being consistent in this context. 123 00:14:21.020 --> 00:14:24.760 Aaron McHale: because you know the like, using the time reference to you type 124 00:14:24.780 --> 00:14:29.100 Aaron McHale: below the term, and the reference like that that you know. 125 00:14:29.150 --> 00:14:38.370 Aaron McHale: provides the same context for the user when they're looking at this. So it's pretty clear what it is they're looking at. So that would be my my feelings here on that. 126 00:14:40.590 --> 00:14:47.350 Lauri Eskola: I just wanted to show this view, because I that's another instance where we talk about referencing, and that's where we 127 00:14:48.380 --> 00:14:52.150 Lauri Eskola: our little bit more struck. We say type of item to reference. 128 00:14:54.090 --> 00:14:57.790 Lauri Eskola: That's the label of selecting the target entity type. 129 00:14:59.290 --> 00:15:00.980 Aaron McHale: Right? So that's kind of not. 130 00:15:01.060 --> 00:15:09.520 Aaron McHale: Yeah. So there's there. There's an element of inconsistency there in terms of how we talk about it in the Ui, so I guess I would be more more concerned with 131 00:15:09.630 --> 00:15:18.680 Aaron McHale: ensuring. We have consistency rather than you know what specific, whether we call an Ncr. An item. And and you there's an argument to say, actually. 132 00:15:18.690 --> 00:15:25.960 Aaron McHale: we should just be saying entity, because that's what we call our documentation. That's what we call it in codes, you know. So 133 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.410 Aaron McHale: but i'll. I'll pass it with the Ralph to 134 00:15:28.500 --> 00:15:30.360 Aaron McHale: I'm. Sure, you you know 135 00:15:30.910 --> 00:15:32.970 Aaron McHale: That's that's my feeling on that, anyway. 136 00:15:35.560 --> 00:15:37.350 Lauri Eskola: Yeah, Ralph, go ahead. 137 00:15:37.810 --> 00:15:41.240 Ralf Koller: Yeah. But I agree with Aaron that on the 138 00:15:41.620 --> 00:15:43.150 details page 139 00:15:43.410 --> 00:15:44.350 Ralf Koller: to it. 140 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:48.090 Ralf Koller: basically the entity type there as well. 141 00:15:49.090 --> 00:15:50.480 Ralf Koller: maybe because 142 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:57.920 Ralf Koller: it's more clear that way. And another detail. I wonder about on the other page here. 143 00:16:01.180 --> 00:16:02.820 Ralf Koller: Thank you. 144 00:16:03.640 --> 00:16:04.900 Ralf Koller: I wonder 145 00:16:06.390 --> 00:16:09.040 Ralf Koller: Would it make sense at the moment you have 146 00:16:09.540 --> 00:16:17.960 Ralf Koller: 3 rows? First, entity, reference, then referenced entity type media when media type image to shorten it 147 00:16:18.520 --> 00:16:20.440 Ralf Koller: basically and maybe 148 00:16:20.460 --> 00:16:22.850 Ralf Koller: put image in parentheses 149 00:16:22.980 --> 00:16:24.380 Ralf Koller: of the media 150 00:16:24.470 --> 00:16:31.100 Ralf Koller: and leave media type out because that maybe it's already clear. And 151 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:33.160 Ralf Koller: and in case You have a 152 00:16:33.280 --> 00:16:47.260 Ralf Koller: content type with more than 5 fields then, and you have several. And to reference fields, then, yeah, the link, the thing could get lengthy. And 153 00:16:47.710 --> 00:16:48.960 Ralf Koller: yeah, if you have 154 00:16:49.230 --> 00:16:52.280 Ralf Koller: that in a single line, maybe it's clearer 155 00:16:52.350 --> 00:16:53.380 Ralf Koller: and shorter. 156 00:16:53.640 --> 00:16:55.400 Ralf Koller: and i'm not sure. 157 00:16:55.700 --> 00:16:57.140 Ralf Koller: It just looks 158 00:16:57.230 --> 00:17:00.550 Ralf Koller: a bit stacked with those 3 lines for a single field. 159 00:17:00.710 --> 00:17:01.390 Lauri Eskola: Yeah. 160 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:05.400 Benji Fisher: I was thinking along the same lines. And 161 00:17:05.490 --> 00:17:09.150 Benji Fisher: in this context could you click on the add field button? 162 00:17:09.790 --> 00:17:10.800 Lauri Eskola: Yes. 163 00:17:13.579 --> 00:17:15.280 Benji Fisher: and select the field type. 164 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:25.780 Benji Fisher: So what we? If we wanted another reference field, we would go under the reference section and choose media. 165 00:17:27.750 --> 00:17:41.460 Benji Fisher: So given that that's how we add a media field. I think that just using on one line as Ralph suggested reference media, whether parentheses or colon, or or what have you 166 00:17:41.710 --> 00:17:44.460 Benji Fisher: rather than 2 lines 167 00:17:44.610 --> 00:17:49.900 Benji Fisher: makes a lot of sense. It's it's consistent with the the add field screen. 168 00:17:52.830 --> 00:18:15.160 Lauri Eskola: Yeah, I. This is currently dictated by the technical implementation of this. I don't know if you want to go to those details, what the the challenge is that the information is coming from multiple different places, because we have to field, instance and feel storage, to feel storage owns the configuration around which entity type your 169 00:18:15.250 --> 00:18:24.260 Lauri Eskola: i'm referring to, and then we have the field instance which configures which bundles your reference to. So you are 170 00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:37.840 Lauri Eskola: basically the bundle is configured from here, and they come from 2 different places right now. and for that reason using parentheses or approach like that could be really challenging from technical perspective. 171 00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:54.500 Benji Fisher: Okay? Well, this is the usability meeting, and we have the luxury of not worrying about implementation details, but but we we we can get the secondary recommendation. Personally, I think we're putting it on. One line 172 00:18:54.630 --> 00:18:57.500 Benji Fisher: is the best for usability 173 00:19:00.380 --> 00:19:03.880 Benji Fisher: can. Can we get a a quick vote on that if you disagree 174 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:09.800 Simo Hellsten: connected clarification? So we are talking about getting that that 175 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:15.480 Simo Hellsten: me. Are we going to get. Have the media in on the fine line with the 176 00:19:16.730 --> 00:19:18.540 Simo Hellsten: and to the reference text. 177 00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:22.050 Benji Fisher: Yes, and I think Larry is back to 178 00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:25.860 Simo Hellsten: yeah use browser tools to demonstrate that 179 00:19:29.100 --> 00:19:30.640 Benji Fisher: I see 180 00:19:31.650 --> 00:19:34.860 Benji Fisher: a couple of suggestions in the chat. 181 00:19:35.210 --> 00:19:39.800 Benji Fisher: and I I I am responsible for reading them into the 182 00:19:40.300 --> 00:19:48.690 Benji Fisher: the chat into the the recording. So Aaron suggested entity, reference. And then in parentheses media colon image. 183 00:19:51.740 --> 00:19:55.510 Benji Fisher: Simo mentions related issue. 184 00:19:55.930 --> 00:19:59.420 Benji Fisher: Maybe we can look at that in a few minutes. 185 00:19:59.960 --> 00:20:04.490 Benji Fisher: and when give a thumbs up 186 00:20:04.790 --> 00:20:06.900 Benji Fisher: to Aaron's suggestion. 187 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:14.100 Benji Fisher: and so did Ralph. So 188 00:20:14.930 --> 00:20:17.460 right? So Larry has 189 00:20:17.590 --> 00:20:20.060 Benji Fisher: put in what Aaron suggested in the chat. 190 00:20:22.190 --> 00:20:35.480 Benji Fisher: So that's that's a little longer than what I was suggesting. I was suggesting something based on what we see in the drop down when we add new field, but I seem to be in the minority. 191 00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:39.760 Benji Fisher: So putting it on a Oh. 192 00:20:41.070 --> 00:20:45.050 Benji Fisher: oh! And I actually you're You're combining all 3 lines int0 0ne now. 193 00:20:45.550 --> 00:20:46.510 Lauri Eskola: Yes. 194 00:20:47.350 --> 00:20:54.770 Lauri Eskola: that was one of the suggestions, I think, from the chat from Aaron. I can certainly do that 195 00:20:54.800 --> 00:20:56.750 Simo Hellsten: second line approach to you. 196 00:20:57.430 --> 00:21:02.200 Aaron McHale: Yeah, Just been doodling away in the background here with different different options. So 197 00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:03.170 Aaron McHale: I also 198 00:21:04.710 --> 00:21:09.400 Aaron McHale: I had a yeah. I had a 2 line option which was then into reference, and then type Call on 199 00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:16.560 Aaron McHale: image and brackets media. But then I realized, actually, you can have multiple as you did. So you can have like image and video. 200 00:21:16.790 --> 00:21:24.330 Aaron McHale: So we we could even shorten it to just the field type could be just reference parentheses, media cool on image comma video. 201 00:21:24.750 --> 00:21:29.250 Or we could d0 2 lines and also mindful of Ralph's suggestion that 202 00:21:29.260 --> 00:21:41.010 Aaron McHale: when you have a lot of fields that starts to get long. But actually, I was in a a meeting earlier this week, for we were potentially talking about content type, but over a 100 fields. So 203 00:21:41.350 --> 00:21:56.380 Aaron McHale: I think we we decided that over a 100 fields on a single 204 00:21:56.750 --> 00:21:57.600 Aaron McHale: a lot. 205 00:21:58.320 --> 00:22:04.450 Simo has something to say. Yeah. So I was thinking that 206 00:22:04.790 --> 00:22:07.080 Simo Hellsten: because we can't have like 15 207 00:22:07.140 --> 00:22:13.470 Simo Hellsten: different types listed, so it shouldn't everything be on one line for sure, because, like 208 00:22:13.490 --> 00:22:19.590 Simo Hellsten: may maybe not 15, but at least 5 0r 6 0r especially with a taxonomy. 209 00:22:20.050 --> 00:22:23.740 Simo Hellsten: We can have a loads of possible 210 00:22:26.490 --> 00:22:27.390 Simo Hellsten: types 211 00:22:27.490 --> 00:22:29.650 Simo Hellsten: there. Oh. 212 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:32.470 Simo Hellsten: on Not that those yeah. 213 00:22:32.820 --> 00:22:38.770 Simo Hellsten: But I think you so. We should have like a very easily distinguishable 214 00:22:40.250 --> 00:22:44.670 Simo Hellsten: What? What type of reference it's, if it's media if it's content if it's a 215 00:22:44.900 --> 00:22:46.520 Simo Hellsten: so that should be 216 00:22:46.670 --> 00:22:51.630 Simo Hellsten: like easy to see. So I would that maybe put that into parentheses. 217 00:22:51.650 --> 00:22:55.410 Simo Hellsten: And these reference parentheses in parentheses media. 218 00:22:55.650 --> 00:22:57.670 Simo Hellsten: and then the different types 219 00:22:58.140 --> 00:23:05.710 Simo Hellsten: they would be like with a small, maybe smaller phones like it is like here and then on a separate row. 220 00:23:06.030 --> 00:23:07.250 Simo Hellsten: so that. 221 00:23:08.850 --> 00:23:13.290 Simo Hellsten: but so that it would be it would. It would have main content. 222 00:23:13.550 --> 00:23:24.620 Simo Hellsten: That would be the first line, and the main conduct would include the entity type. and then the details would be like with less significant value. 223 00:23:27.260 --> 00:23:33.450 Benji Fisher: Right? I I personally feel strongly that we should not combine it all int0 0ne line. 224 00:23:34.100 --> 00:23:43.510 Benji Fisher: I I think we should be consistent with the process for adding a new field. Let me add new field. The selection 225 00:23:43.620 --> 00:23:52.540 Benji Fisher: of a media reference is, is one step, and I would like to have that on one line rather than 2 lines. So 226 00:23:53.230 --> 00:23:58.650 Benji Fisher: entity, reference media, or my I would even prefer reference media. 227 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.010 And then 228 00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:02.610 Benji Fisher: the settings 229 00:24:02.670 --> 00:24:04.590 Benji Fisher: for that feels type 230 00:24:05.070 --> 00:24:11.790 Benji Fisher: say which types of media are allowed that I I believe, should be on a second line. 231 00:24:11.970 --> 00:24:24.660 Benji Fisher: So I I I really want 2 lines, not one line, one line for the type of field, and the second line for the settings for that field, and that'll be consistent with with other things in this column. 232 00:24:28.070 --> 00:24:38.250 Benji Fisher: I see Aaron is still making suggestions, putting it all on one line, so I I guess we at the moment disagree. I hope we can come to 233 00:24:38.430 --> 00:24:59.000 Aaron McHale: Yeah. I posted some fall at once because I actually based on the most recent one. I said, media reference based on what? Just as you were talking. Because you know you're right. When we add these things we talk about in this reference field, and, like, you know it's so thinking about it as like like a media reference or a content reference, or a taxonomy, reference whatever, and then, like type 234 00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:02.730 Aaron McHale: on below that. And then, like the the types. 235 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:15.370 Aaron McHale: you know I Is it actually, Laurie? Is it correct? The the the entity type? You're referencing is set on the storage. Or is that set on the field configuration? 236 00:25:15.630 --> 00:25:22.960 Aaron McHale: The entity type is storage level. So yeah, okay. So we could even talk okay, because 237 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:32.960 Aaron McHale: that almost talking about it in the terms of like it being like a media reference or a content reference, or whatever, or a block reference like some ways make sense, because 238 00:25:34.890 --> 00:25:35.470 it 239 00:25:36.270 --> 00:25:46.820 Aaron McHale: like it that set on the storage level. So if you had multiple instances of it, this field are all going to be of that same type. S0 0nce you've set what the type is, it's kind of a relevant. 240 00:25:46.890 --> 00:25:52.170 Aaron McHale: but it's a You know that generically is a generic edge here from field. It's more about 241 00:25:52.220 --> 00:25:55.000 Aaron McHale: the fact. It's like a media reference field. Or you know. 242 00:26:10.650 --> 00:26:17.680 Benji Fisher: while you're doing that, I also want to mention that, and Mullen has joined the meeting. But then do you have an issue but like to bring up 243 00:26:21.990 --> 00:26:23.010 Benji Fisher: or offer. 244 00:26:27.300 --> 00:26:30.430 Benji Fisher: And we're getting further suggestions in the chat. 245 00:26:30.630 --> 00:26:35.780 Quinn suggests on 2 lines: entity reference per in media. 246 00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:38.840 Benji Fisher: and then type, audio, image or video. 247 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.380 Benji Fisher: which is pretty close to what I was suggesting 248 00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:47.560 Benji Fisher: back very close. 249 00:26:52.210 --> 00:26:54.090 Aaron, go ahead. 250 00:26:57.510 --> 00:26:58.640 Benji Fisher: Aaron, you're muted. 251 00:26:58.990 --> 00:26:59.840 Aaron McHale: Thank you. 252 00:27:00.300 --> 00:27:15.480 Aaron McHale: One of the things I was noticing here is, for instance, at the top. There we have a a body field, and we've got, and every I. I have a vague memory of us discussing this before a text. Prince's format. He come along with summary 253 00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:18.870 Aaron McHale: that there is combining the type 254 00:27:19.170 --> 00:27:21.670 Aaron McHale: and the you know. 255 00:27:25.170 --> 00:27:26.090 Aaron McHale: is it? 256 00:27:27.530 --> 00:27:34.770 Aaron McHale: I I think if you add new Fields text long summary is is one of the option. Oh, you're right. Okay, yeah, never mind, then. 257 00:27:56.520 --> 00:27:58.930 Aaron McHale: That's just the name of the field type. So 258 00:28:01.360 --> 00:28:10.190 Benji Fisher: yeah, I I really like media reference rather than reference media or entity reference media. So I like this suggestion. 259 00:28:12.770 --> 00:28:16.900 Benji Fisher: I'm not sure whether I prefer media type or simply type. 260 00:28:16.970 --> 00:28:18.830 Benji Fisher: I could go with either one. 261 00:28:21.570 --> 00:28:23.360 Aaron McHale: Sorry to 262 00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:27.290 Aaron McHale: I just because it like? Do we even need to stable the tight like? Would it look 263 00:28:27.530 --> 00:28:30.330 Aaron McHale: better or worse if it just listed? 264 00:28:31.060 --> 00:28:33.630 Aaron McHale: You know, image color, video rather than 265 00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:35.250 Aaron McHale: tight, cool on 266 00:28:35.340 --> 00:28:37.660 Aaron McHale: image. Come on, video. Where is that to 267 00:28:38.110 --> 00:28:39.100 Aaron McHale: abstract? 268 00:28:49.980 --> 00:28:51.130 Lauri Eskola: So something to 269 00:28:51.230 --> 00:28:56.440 Lauri Eskola: sorry. 270 00:28:57.030 --> 00:29:07.450 Aaron McHale: Yeah. So like in the latest examples, we have the second line movie type call on like audio image video. What if we just drop the type, call on 271 00:29:07.910 --> 00:29:09.820 Aaron McHale: all together. And it was just 272 00:29:10.130 --> 00:29:13.050 Aaron McHale: audio image that you on the second line. 273 00:29:15.690 --> 00:29:17.750 Aaron McHale: I don't know. If that's to 274 00:29:17.870 --> 00:29:28.800 Aaron McHale: then it, then it's like to. It's not entirely clear what what that means, or if that makes sense, or and also mindful like if you do it, someone said, If you have a lot of different types like 275 00:29:29.490 --> 00:29:33.080 we want to try and provide as much space as possible to list them all. 276 00:29:36.310 --> 00:29:42.530 Benji Fisher: And and Simo is asking what happens if you have a Json reference field. 277 00:29:43.230 --> 00:29:48.340 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So there are a lot of different kinds of complex 278 00:29:48.600 --> 00:29:51.370 references available. 279 00:29:51.690 --> 00:29:57.140 Simo Hellsten: So with the like, a very long kind of technical sounding. 280 00:29:59.930 --> 00:30:03.830 Simo Hellsten: technical founding types, and then 281 00:30:04.070 --> 00:30:08.150 Simo Hellsten: we can have a like. It might be clear to have a 282 00:30:08.430 --> 00:30:10.460 Simo Hellsten: the display that it's. 283 00:30:10.470 --> 00:30:15.270 Simo Hellsten: Really, it's a reference, and then it would have a the details 284 00:30:15.430 --> 00:30:23.110 Simo Hellsten: like responsive image to the reference or quantum flag. When set settings reference for those 3 3 word 285 00:30:24.610 --> 00:30:34.290 Simo Hellsten: things, it might be more clear to have first, the definition that it's a reference, and then what kind of reference in this 286 00:30:37.060 --> 00:30:48.360 Simo Hellsten: right? So to get that I assume you'd have to enable the Json api module on your site. A reference is possible 287 00:30:48.750 --> 00:30:50.190 also here 288 00:30:52.250 --> 00:30:53.540 Simo Hellsten: on the screen share. 289 00:31:02.010 --> 00:31:03.720 Lauri Eskola: So I guess I 290 00:31:04.490 --> 00:31:09.230 Lauri Eskola: So I I brought up some technical constraints that we have earlier. 291 00:31:09.250 --> 00:31:12.420 Lauri Eskola: and i'm wondering if we 292 00:31:13.120 --> 00:31:16.270 Lauri Eskola: So basically. There are some concerns about 293 00:31:16.910 --> 00:31:25.920 Lauri Eskola: that. Having Tree Alliance would increase the height of the the table and increase the sort of amount of text that is on the page. I'm wondering, like, what is the 294 00:31:26.850 --> 00:31:29.500 Lauri Eskola: severity of those concerns like 295 00:31:30.840 --> 00:31:36.260 Lauri Eskola: if it is that we have technical challenges, and we are unable to implement a solution that 296 00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:40.730 Lauri Eskola: renders this information on 2 lines. 297 00:31:41.360 --> 00:31:43.850 Do you think that this is severe enough 298 00:31:44.360 --> 00:31:48.550 Lauri Eskola: concern from the perspective of usability that we should 299 00:31:49.580 --> 00:31:53.930 avoid making a change all together on until we can come up with the solution 300 00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:55.860 Lauri Eskola: that allows us to 301 00:31:56.080 --> 00:31:59.040 display this information on on 2 lines. 302 00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:07.380 Personally, I I think that we can 303 00:32:07.550 --> 00:32:15.380 Benji Fisher: make a recommendation for a follow up issue and answer the question you wanted us to ask Pens or at the start. 304 00:32:15.430 --> 00:32:22.300 and also Ralph has a comment in the chat. He thinks the label is needed. 305 00:32:22.330 --> 00:32:30.250 Benji Fisher: I wouldn't necessarily drop the media type label for cited users that have the media reference context available in one glimpse is 306 00:32:30.330 --> 00:32:36.270 Benji Fisher: viable. But for screen readers I am not necessarily sure if it would work without. 307 00:32:36.590 --> 00:32:46.020 Benji Fisher: and I I I tend to agree with Ralph that that we should have the media type label and a few lines above that content type. 308 00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:49.660 Benji Fisher: I like it just for consistency with 309 00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:55.320 Benji Fisher: the form where where you choose, that on on the field settings 310 00:32:55.800 --> 00:33:00.350 Benji Fisher: Aaron was, I think it was the one suggesting that we remove it. 311 00:33:03.150 --> 00:33:15.450 Lauri Eskola: So I have a specific suggestion. I'm wondering if this is this might remove the amount of actually we have what it is. It is target. Is that 312 00:33:16.320 --> 00:33:20.700 Lauri Eskola: to wait, but it would at least remove a lot of the text from here. 313 00:33:39.230 --> 00:33:45.680 Benji Fisher: Okay. So for an an interim solution, so that we can move the issue forward. 314 00:33:47.420 --> 00:33:48.260 Benji Fisher: you would 315 00:33:49.020 --> 00:33:54.700 Benji Fisher: you. You want to keep it on 3 lines. It is as it is now, but shorten it from 316 00:33:55.190 --> 00:33:56.660 Benji Fisher: what? What was it 317 00:33:58.990 --> 00:34:00.100 Benji Fisher: originally? 318 00:34:01.430 --> 00:34:05.690 Benji Fisher: And the type or ref reference density type. 319 00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:10.239 You want to change it to simply target. 320 00:34:18.929 --> 00:34:32.760 Lauri Eskola: That's just one idea there could be at a label that we could use. That was just. I'm not sure if it's better than reference to it, but it could potentially address some of that concern around having too much ta text in the in the table. 321 00:34:36.560 --> 00:34:47.760 Aaron McHale: I guess one thing to be mindful of this again, thinking of consistency, like. what are the labels we use on the storage and edit forms, and because. 322 00:34:48.429 --> 00:34:53.440 Aaron McHale: you know, we we helps create a a cognitive link between those. 323 00:34:54.040 --> 00:34:55.630 Aaron McHale: What what is there? 324 00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:08.740 Aaron McHale: Yeah. So maybe like through the call to the second line. Maybe it's like just maybe we say type. And then because we also want to do when I make it too long. 325 00:35:09.790 --> 00:35:12.570 Aaron McHale: what do we use on the edit form 326 00:35:14.250 --> 00:35:18.530 Lauri Eskola: edit form, You mean when we enter the 327 00:35:20.750 --> 00:35:23.010 when you were editing the field? 328 00:35:23.050 --> 00:35:27.150 Lauri Eskola: Oh, when you're editing the field, I see all right. The field field settings. 329 00:35:27.350 --> 00:35:28.970 Lauri Eskola: Yeah. 330 00:35:30.150 --> 00:35:33.770 Lauri Eskola: I think it's using the same label that we have there. 331 00:35:33.990 --> 00:35:42.290 Aaron McHale: Okay. now, that probably comes from the the underlying. And right. So, if it was, it would say, a media type. 332 00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:48.050 Lauri Eskola: Yep, it's the same as what we it's coming from the same source as this. 333 00:35:48.660 --> 00:35:51.160 Lauri Eskola: So for that this one should say media type. 334 00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:34.640 Benji Fisher: I I like having something short, but I I don't see target use anywhere. 335 00:36:37.250 --> 00:36:43.160 Benji Fisher: I I would suggest simply shortening reference to entity type to reference type. 336 00:36:45.470 --> 00:36:48.780 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, like target, it's just in render table. 337 00:36:54.740 --> 00:36:58.120 Benji Fisher: Ben's Mullen suggests references 338 00:37:03.950 --> 00:37:10.070 Lauri Eskola: as to as the label for the second row. Is that correct? Then 339 00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:17.080 Lauri Eskola: I guess something to 340 00:37:17.170 --> 00:37:22.990 Lauri Eskola: you can only have one entity type there, so i'm not sure if we should have it laurel. 341 00:37:23.970 --> 00:37:28.270 Lauri Eskola: I I think the idea of the plural is to say that 342 00:37:28.570 --> 00:37:31.260 Benji Fisher: this field references. 343 00:37:31.670 --> 00:37:36.670 Benji Fisher: media, or I see node. 344 00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:39.110 Benji Fisher: which which I I don't personally like. 345 00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:43.420 Benji Fisher: because 346 00:37:43.710 --> 00:37:50.440 Benji Fisher: for for one thing, where we're not using references as a verb as the label anywhere else. 347 00:37:54.940 --> 00:38:00.460 Benji Fisher: and it is shorter and less is more. I grant, I grant that. But 348 00:38:00.610 --> 00:38:11.580 Benji Fisher: if you Look at the field settings page. We use reference type. It's it, it's the label of a a section on that page 349 00:38:17.700 --> 00:38:24.860 Benji Fisher: on the field storage settings it's type of item to reference. So I could go with just type. 350 00:38:25.270 --> 00:38:27.630 Benji Fisher: or I could go with reference type. 351 00:38:34.290 --> 00:38:37.730 Aaron McHale: Yeah, maybe a reference type, because we want to be. 352 00:38:39.890 --> 00:38:43.570 Aaron McHale: We want to help distinguish the 2 lines. 353 00:38:55.510 --> 00:39:04.520 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I guess i'd say it there like, if you've got in the second l it's just tight. Call on content, and then on the the third line. It's like content type article I feel like that 354 00:39:05.530 --> 00:39:07.910 reads reads fine, You know 355 00:39:08.430 --> 00:39:12.250 Aaron McHale: there's it creates a relationship between those those different lines. 356 00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:20.360 and and Ralph in the chat is suggesting singular. Just reference 357 00:39:20.660 --> 00:39:24.690 Benji Fisher: again. References is a verb. It's not 358 00:39:43.290 --> 00:39:46.910 Benji Fisher: so. I'm. I'm not sure we're getting closer to 359 00:39:48.550 --> 00:39:52.770 Benji Fisher: consensus. Here, let's let's let's try to gather some 360 00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:56.690 Benji Fisher: some candidates 361 00:39:57.990 --> 00:39:59.900 Benji Fisher: and and settle on one. 362 00:40:03.810 --> 00:40:08.580 Benji Fisher: So you know what one candidate is. What it currently says. 363 00:40:10.300 --> 00:40:15.830 Benji Fisher: which i'm not sure anyone likes, but it's referenced entity type. 364 00:40:20.510 --> 00:40:25.730 Benji Fisher: Another candidate is simply type. A third is reference type. 365 00:40:26.680 --> 00:40:28.940 What other 366 00:40:31.520 --> 00:40:33.320 Benji Fisher: I guess reference 367 00:40:35.390 --> 00:40:38.900 Lauri Eskola: target was to the one that I proposed at first. 368 00:40:41.240 --> 00:40:44.930 Benji Fisher: Yeah. So let me just put into the chat a few of these. 369 00:40:47.600 --> 00:40:51.810 Aaron McHale: Yeah. And zoom chat now has reactions so people could just thumbs up 370 00:40:51.890 --> 00:40:54.440 once they prefer if we put them all in the chat. 371 00:41:08.010 --> 00:41:18.760 Benji Fisher: Okay, so I've got 4 at this point. Reference to entity type, which is what it currently has. and then reference type. And then 372 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:22.300 Benji Fisher: either one of those 2 words. 373 00:41:24.250 --> 00:41:25.170 Benji Fisher: oh. 374 00:41:31.080 --> 00:41:33.420 any other suggestions? 375 00:41:35.940 --> 00:41:37.980 Benji Fisher: Oh, references! 376 00:41:42.010 --> 00:41:46.840 Benji Fisher: Or should I be entering these as individual steps? Aaron? How does the 377 00:41:46.930 --> 00:41:52.750 Aaron McHale: yeah? It's like there's it like. If I read, I can only react to your whole message. So 378 00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:55.900 Aaron McHale: if you put on this 1 0ne on each 379 00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:56.850 Benji Fisher: right. 380 00:42:14.220 --> 00:42:18.500 Benji Fisher: Okay. So I put in 5 alternatives there 381 00:42:21.790 --> 00:42:23.160 Benji Fisher: any others 382 00:42:25.390 --> 00:42:28.440 Lauri Eskola: trying to figure out how to react. 383 00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:33.560 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I I have here copy and quote options same here. 384 00:42:33.680 --> 00:42:34.340 Yeah. 385 00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:46.940 Lauri Eskola: Oh, I don't have that. 386 00:42:47.450 --> 00:42:57.660 Aaron McHale: 0 0kay, I see. Some people seem to have it. And some people don't. Maybe that's a. So maybe this is so new that some people have some people's clients, and they got the update yet. 387 00:42:57.940 --> 00:42:59.150 Aaron McHale: That's unfortunate. 388 00:43:00.790 --> 00:43:02.160 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I see. 389 00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:07.090 Aaron McHale: Oh, if you 390 00:43:08.690 --> 00:43:11.550 Aaron McHale: I see people are able to click on their thumbs up so 391 00:43:12.470 --> 00:43:13.280 Aaron McHale: there. 392 00:43:16.550 --> 00:43:25.320 Lauri Eskola: yeah, I can click on existing. Maybe someone Will has to feature. Can you tum up everything, and then that will allow everyone to to time. Stop. 393 00:43:26.100 --> 00:43:29.340 Aaron McHale: Okay. I'll vote for everything then. 394 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:36.900 Lauri Eskola: and you can. Then, maybe at the end remove them more. I'm a I'm a very diplomatic individual 395 00:43:38.370 --> 00:43:39.180 Benji Fisher: exactly. 396 00:43:40.050 --> 00:43:47.010 Benji Fisher: except I don't seem to be able to thumbs up them through the movie because i'm the one who typed them. 397 00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:51.960 Lauri Eskola: Oh, I can thumbs up my own one. 398 00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:00.760 Aaron McHale: Okay, yeah, Everybody vote 399 00:44:07.650 --> 00:44:09.700 Aaron McHale: feel like we need some kind of music. 400 00:44:18.890 --> 00:44:19.460 Okay. 401 00:44:23.540 --> 00:44:26.860 reference type seems to be the most popular. 402 00:44:28.750 --> 00:44:32.900 Benji Fisher: I Haven't figured out how to vote, but that's also my 403 00:44:35.550 --> 00:44:40.220 Lauri Eskola: all right. It seems like there's at least some level of consensus. Then 404 00:44:42.120 --> 00:44:49.140 Benji Fisher: I I i'm having trouble seeing the results in in aggregate. I just see individual messages that so and so 405 00:44:50.070 --> 00:44:52.840 reacted with a thumbs up. 406 00:44:53.300 --> 00:44:56.780 Lauri Eskola: Alright, I can read the results also for the recording. 407 00:44:56.800 --> 00:45:00.670 Lauri Eskola: So there's a reference entity type which has 408 00:45:01.730 --> 00:45:11.420 Lauri Eskola: one quote reference type, which is 6 votes, reference references, type, 0 and target. one vote 409 00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:20.850 Benji Fisher: Okay. And and the ones with one voter, Aaron, because he was noting for everything to 410 00:45:21.430 --> 00:45:38.750 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I did act. There's one from everything, but it seems like reference type. Hope. May I don't know if if that's Aaron's reference. But yeah, I just removed all my fake thumbs up and thumbs up reference types. So that makes it 7 0n that one. 411 00:45:40.560 --> 00:45:41.950 Benji Fisher: So that that's 412 00:45:43.260 --> 00:45:49.660 Benji Fisher: after 40 min, is the answer You you at to the question you wanted at the beginning. 413 00:45:49.730 --> 00:45:55.820 Benji Fisher: and we would also like a follow up issue, and and it will take some discussion. 414 00:45:56.060 --> 00:45:57.930 Lauri Eskola: Yeah. But 415 00:45:57.970 --> 00:46:09.230 Benji Fisher: but I I think, combining those those first 2 lines int0 0ne. something like reference, parent media or reference call in media or media reference 416 00:46:09.290 --> 00:46:11.450 Benji Fisher: to be decided on that issue. 417 00:46:12.040 --> 00:46:12.830 Lauri Eskola: Yeah. 418 00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:24.360 Lauri Eskola: I guess for context. Me and couple of other folks at a we are working on like a bigger overhaul of the field ui ux, and 419 00:46:25.090 --> 00:46:31.380 Lauri Eskola: it. It probably makes sense t0 0pen the follow up, but it might make sense to look at that more holistically as well. 420 00:46:31.810 --> 00:46:33.210 The reason 421 00:46:33.320 --> 00:46:38.390 Lauri Eskola: this one is just. It has some Api pieces that we need for 422 00:46:38.520 --> 00:46:44.550 Lauri Eskola: doing the more holistic over overhaul, and that's why I would. It would be great if they could get this issue 423 00:46:45.060 --> 00:46:46.100 in 424 00:46:46.450 --> 00:46:48.760 Lauri Eskola: before we proceed to that step. 425 00:46:48.940 --> 00:46:50.050 Lauri Eskola: and 426 00:46:51.280 --> 00:46:52.380 Lauri Eskola: once we have 427 00:46:52.860 --> 00:46:58.360 Lauri Eskola: some progress on that, I I I think feedback from this group would be appreciated as well. 428 00:47:00.870 --> 00:47:07.730 Benji Fisher: That's really good. I'm. I'm. I'm glad some effort is being put into that, and I I do remember this issue. 429 00:47:07.820 --> 00:47:12.660 Benji Fisher: and and i'm glad to see it, it finally getting some attention again. 430 00:47:12.990 --> 00:47:14.870 Benji Fisher: I 431 00:47:15.870 --> 00:47:20.640 Benji Fisher: occasionally think of it, but it's just not high enough on my to do list. 432 00:47:24.150 --> 00:47:31.850 Aaron McHale: and I seem to remember. There's an issue which I presume, is what you're centering around as well, which is the one that would 433 00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:44.670 Aaron McHale: kind of reverse the whole flow of adding fields to make it so that you select the widget first. and then it gives you the more pro the most appropriate field type for that widget 434 00:47:46.410 --> 00:47:47.940 Benji Fisher: the dream fields. 435 00:47:48.540 --> 00:47:51.150 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I think that's what I really hope it. 436 00:47:51.180 --> 00:47:53.020 Aaron McHale: Yeah, Dream fields 437 00:47:54.030 --> 00:47:57.090 Aaron McHale: sounds like when people these times like blue sky thinking. 438 00:48:01.380 --> 00:48:07.690 Benji Fisher: So we have a little more than 15 min left. Does anyone have an issue? They'd like to bring up 439 00:48:09.120 --> 00:48:10.460 the 440 00:48:10.590 --> 00:48:13.050 Simo Hellsten: issue a link t0 3 0r 3, 441 00:48:13.140 --> 00:48:19.880 Simo Hellsten: 1 6 3 7 I put on the chat. It's also this with the empty references 442 00:48:22.630 --> 00:48:26.660 Simo Hellsten: and these reference fields. So we might want to look at that. 443 00:48:30.220 --> 00:48:35.330 Benji Fisher: Sure, Can you share your screen, or if not, I I think I can. 444 00:48:37.220 --> 00:48:40.180 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I I can't share it. I don't have that touch 445 00:48:40.510 --> 00:48:42.400 applied. 446 00:48:46.980 --> 00:48:48.050 Benji Fisher: Well, go ahead. 447 00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:49.030 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 448 00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:11.210 Simo Hellsten: Okay. So this is a issue. Number 3 0 3 1 6 3 7, 449 00:49:12.230 --> 00:49:13.690 Simo Hellsten: And 450 00:49:15.310 --> 00:49:16.830 Simo Hellsten: here 451 00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:25.490 Simo Hellsten: that issue is that if any reference field, the engine type 452 00:49:31.120 --> 00:49:38.880 Simo Hellsten: hmm to it. If the bundles are not selected. then 453 00:49:40.550 --> 00:49:42.990 Simo Hellsten: the suggestion is that 454 00:49:43.200 --> 00:49:44.230 Simo Hellsten: it should 455 00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:51.160 act as if all of them were were referenced 456 00:49:57.120 --> 00:50:02.680 Benji Fisher: so to to have a a triple site running where you can demonstrate where this comes up. 457 00:50:02.740 --> 00:50:05.680 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, Unfortunately, I don't don't have. 458 00:50:05.800 --> 00:50:10.240 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I I just put a link into the chat. If you click there it's 459 00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:14.080 Benji Fisher: standard 1110.1. No patches applied 460 00:50:14.500 --> 00:50:18.600 with the mommy demo profile, and you can log in as admin admin 461 00:50:24.250 --> 00:50:27.240 anyone else on the call, of course, is free to 462 00:50:28.370 --> 00:50:29.560 Benji Fisher: use the same one. 463 00:50:36.170 --> 00:50:37.180 Simo Hellsten: And so 464 00:50:38.670 --> 00:50:39.670 Simo Hellsten: if I 465 00:50:44.420 --> 00:50:50.220 Benji Fisher: So again, we're talking about end to the references. So that's why I see what brings it up. 466 00:50:54.060 --> 00:50:57.930 Simo Hellsten: So let's add a field of to some term preferences. 467 00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:06.460 Simo Hellsten: So here we have that reference type, and 468 00:51:07.180 --> 00:51:12.360 Simo Hellsten: here we choose which what collabor is to reference. So 469 00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:18.840 Simo Hellsten: if I choose none 470 00:51:20.670 --> 00:51:23.760 Simo Hellsten: and save it's not allowed. 471 00:51:24.430 --> 00:51:26.280 So what's that 472 00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:34.120 Simo Hellsten: issue suggests that it's it would be allowed to leave this 473 00:51:36.160 --> 00:51:37.870 blank 474 00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:39.990 Simo Hellsten: with non non selected. 475 00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:49.400 Simo Hellsten: and then it would act as if would reference all of this. so all all of that possible, all of that 476 00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:59.780 Simo Hellsten: a vocabulary would be referenced from the field. So it would basically mean that it would act as if all of them were checked 477 00:52:01.200 --> 00:52:09.350 Benji Fisher: right. And the difference would be that if you later add a new vocabulary to the site, it would also be allowed, and you would not have to revisit this page. 478 00:52:09.970 --> 00:52:11.410 Yes. 479 00:52:11.620 --> 00:52:13.190 Simo Hellsten: and also 480 00:52:17.410 --> 00:52:20.470 Simo Hellsten: we don't have the patch applied, but also, if you would 481 00:52:21.020 --> 00:52:24.520 Simo Hellsten: have only allowed, if you would only allow to 482 00:52:24.660 --> 00:52:26.590 Simo Hellsten: reference recipes. 483 00:52:27.230 --> 00:52:34.670 Simo Hellsten: then, if you delete the recip category the reference this field would start referencing tags instead. 484 00:52:35.260 --> 00:52:44.150 Simo Hellsten: So I think that's kind of something that it's hard to predict by the use of that kind of behavior. so that deleting receipt category 485 00:52:44.810 --> 00:52:47.380 would make this field. Then. 486 00:52:47.470 --> 00:52:52.970 Simo Hellsten: as if if it would have wouldn't have any selected, it would start referencing tags. 487 00:52:53.500 --> 00:52:55.200 Benji Fisher: Oh, that's a good point. 488 00:52:55.910 --> 00:52:58.730 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So actually, I wrote a bit of a story 489 00:52:58.820 --> 00:53:12.060 Simo Hellsten: in the issue that if we would, we would have content types, dog, horse kennel unstable, and it's a like a common knowledge that horses go with tables and dogs go with kennels. 490 00:53:12.590 --> 00:53:13.970 Simo Hellsten: But if we would 491 00:53:14.940 --> 00:53:16.790 Simo Hellsten: have like, how about 492 00:53:17.580 --> 00:53:29.200 Simo Hellsten: have a kennel content type that references do content types. Then, if we delete the dog content type, kennels would have horses instead. and also. 493 00:53:29.830 --> 00:53:35.360 Benji Fisher: if we would add a new contract type fence material that would be something totally different 494 00:53:35.430 --> 00:53:39.310 Simo Hellsten: from any of those can else, or tables. 495 00:53:40.110 --> 00:53:41.320 Then 496 00:53:42.040 --> 00:53:54.130 Simo Hellsten: Ken else would have have both both horses and fence materials. so that that's kind of a something that we wouldn't want to see, I think. 497 00:54:04.710 --> 00:54:13.340 Simo Hellsten: leaving everything blank. What kind of a if, If it then it would also affect how that 498 00:54:13.560 --> 00:54:17.470 that listing page of feels, because then it might end up having 499 00:54:17.580 --> 00:54:20.320 Simo Hellsten: a huge list of correct 500 00:54:20.630 --> 00:54:23.860 Simo Hellsten: long list of text, but that would be, of course. 501 00:54:23.890 --> 00:54:27.770 Simo Hellsten: the result of something unwanted behavior anyways. 502 00:54:32.650 --> 00:54:39.640 Benji Fisher: Yeah. So so the pattern that that is suggested on this issue of leaving it blank to mean anything allowed. 503 00:54:39.670 --> 00:54:45.980 Benji Fisher: That's a somewhat problematic pattern, but we do see it several places in Drupal. 504 00:54:48.450 --> 00:54:49.620 Benji Fisher: Ralph, go ahead. 505 00:54:52.890 --> 00:54:58.900 Ralf Koller: I see only one problem with the pattern is. if you take, for example. 506 00:54:58.980 --> 00:55:05.490 Ralf Koller: if you configure a block there, you have, for example, the visibility on arrow pages, and there you have also 507 00:55:06.560 --> 00:55:17.450 Ralf Koller: 2, for example, check boxes for access denied and patient found, but there is the exact opposite. If no error pages are selected, no restrictions will be applied with the exact opposite 508 00:55:17.500 --> 00:55:22.900 Ralf Koller: pattern. and people always have to to read. 509 00:55:23.350 --> 00:55:31.670 Ralf Koller: to actually know in which context they are meaning. If left empty. it is everything is included or the other way around. 510 00:55:31.730 --> 00:55:32.710 Ralf Koller: so 511 00:55:34.540 --> 00:55:37.080 Ralf Koller: it might be open for 512 00:55:37.340 --> 00:55:46.680 Ralf Koller: errors. And yeah, the copy of this load is also I. Of course you have to read, actually or know where you currently are. So that is might be a problem 513 00:55:48.340 --> 00:56:00.160 Simo Hellsten: here here, because this is required. It means that then there is no chance of error that, like it's, it's kind of a. It requires 514 00:56:00.410 --> 00:56:02.510 at least one to be checked. 515 00:56:02.890 --> 00:56:04.580 Simo Hellsten: so that that kind of 516 00:56:04.610 --> 00:56:07.380 makes it very hard to misunderstand 517 00:56:07.580 --> 00:56:08.870 Simo Hellsten: at the moment. 518 00:56:10.370 --> 00:56:13.790 Ralf Koller: and that's in that way. It's correct. But as 519 00:56:14.080 --> 00:56:19.460 Ralf Koller: how I understand the issue is that the patch will remove that. 520 00:56:19.570 --> 00:56:21.340 Ralf Koller: and as soon as no 521 00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:24.470 Ralf Koller: check boxes checked and it's saved. Everything is 522 00:56:24.680 --> 00:56:25.820 Ralf Koller: basically 523 00:56:27.080 --> 00:56:31.440 Ralf Koller: Oh, no, sorry for I'm i'm mixed it up. Sorry. 524 00:56:32.830 --> 00:56:34.560 Simo Hellsten: So let's see what happens when I 525 00:56:50.470 --> 00:56:52.970 Simo Hellsten: let's see what happens when I delete this one. 526 00:57:03.130 --> 00:57:06.810 Simo Hellsten: We put it in a basic page or article. I think, what you call. 527 00:57:07.970 --> 00:57:11.220 Simo Hellsten: And here field test, and we edit this one. 528 00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:17.930 Simo Hellsten: and here it's required. But it's not referencing anyone. 529 00:57:19.310 --> 00:57:21.420 Simo Hellsten: so we can't edit that one. 530 00:57:31.740 --> 00:57:34.220 Benji Fisher: So that's so, Certainly, Fletch. 531 00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:39.040 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So this is the current behavior. 532 00:57:39.900 --> 00:57:41.320 But 533 00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:50.520 Simo Hellsten: it we 534 00:57:50.910 --> 00:57:55.590 Benji Fisher: a couple of people would like to say something. I'm not sure who went 535 00:57:55.640 --> 00:57:58.390 Benji Fisher: who came in first. But go ahead, Larry. 536 00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:14.740 Lauri Eskola: So I I just read through the original issue where the usability concerns for race. And it was about yeah, the specific aspect that it might be easy to miss the bundle configuration in the middle of the form we happen to run 537 00:58:14.840 --> 00:58:20.550 Lauri Eskola: Usability Research is a few weeks ago. and we actually 538 00:58:20.850 --> 00:58:24.930 Lauri Eskola: discovered that very specific aspect that users tend to miss those 539 00:58:26.690 --> 00:58:29.630 Lauri Eskola: form elements in the middle of the form, and 540 00:58:29.960 --> 00:58:36.890 Lauri Eskola: proof that it was helpful that they got the prompt that the the bundle configuration is required. 541 00:58:37.080 --> 00:58:39.400 So from that perspective it 542 00:58:39.460 --> 00:58:48.260 Lauri Eskola: could lead in the usability regions, because we have some insights that it it is actually proven to be proving that it's helpful for some users. 543 00:58:48.630 --> 00:58:51.440 Benji Fisher: Okay, thank you. Aaron. Go ahead. 544 00:58:52.250 --> 00:59:02.300 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I i'm mindful that we recently an issue or committed to do something similar, but with allowed text formats. S0 0n. 545 00:59:02.350 --> 00:59:06.520 Aaron McHale: for instance. similar. If you go 546 00:59:06.530 --> 00:59:14.860 Aaron McHale: to the body field on this content type into the edit, or you'll see that there is an allowed 547 00:59:15.170 --> 00:59:18.460 Aaron McHale: text formats option, which basically 548 00:59:18.600 --> 00:59:33.020 Aaron McHale: I believe would stuff from the same problem, because it says, If if not, our selected, all will be allowed. So what I wonder is if we could I? I feel like the only way to really resolve this is to have a a separate 549 00:59:33.140 --> 00:59:44.240 Aaron McHale: take months, or a set of radio buttons, or something that says, you know, if you, if you've checked the box, you're explicitly saying all can be allowed otherwise. It forces you to select 550 00:59:44.340 --> 00:59:54.320 Aaron McHale: like specific ones, and that way we avoid the issue of you know what. If you, if none are selected, then all are allowed kind of thing unintentionally. 551 00:59:55.460 --> 00:59:59.200 Benji Fisher: and we're getting a couple of thumbs up from for that. 552 01:00:03.860 --> 01:00:09.690 Benji Fisher: I think that's certainly worth considering. But if we do it, we should do it comprehensively. 553 01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:13.640 Another example. 554 01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:18.010 Benji Fisher: Simo. Could you go to structure and then block layout 555 01:00:21.580 --> 01:00:24.710 Benji Fisher: and configure any block? 556 01:00:28.770 --> 01:00:32.710 Benji Fisher: So if you look at content type restrictions. 557 01:00:33.930 --> 01:00:38.790 Simo Hellsten: Also, I I guess it's the same as language type. 558 01:00:38.930 --> 01:00:46.860 Simo Hellsten: Actually, languages have this like here help text. whereas quantitative types, don't. 559 01:00:47.070 --> 01:00:52.430 Benji Fisher: whereas if you look at pages. It has the explicit radio buttons at the bottom. 560 01:00:53.350 --> 01:00:55.240 Simo Hellsten: Hmm. So what 561 01:00:55.430 --> 01:01:02.530 Benji Fisher: what was just suggested is that we enforce this pattern all the time that you have an explicit option 562 01:01:04.390 --> 01:01:07.300 Benji Fisher: to show or exclude 563 01:01:08.290 --> 01:01:10.920 Benji Fisher: the selected things. 564 01:01:14.860 --> 01:01:23.460 Benji Fisher: and it's a little extra visual clutter, but it's much more explicit. I think it would solve a a lot of the 565 01:01:25.340 --> 01:01:32.310 Benji Fisher: problems and confusion, and and if we did it everywhere, the consistency might be worth 566 01:01:32.430 --> 01:01:34.480 Benji Fisher: the extra little visual clutter. 567 01:01:38.970 --> 01:01:50.660 Aaron McHale: So I wonder if the cause if, as you said, I think it makes sense to it more holistically so. I guess. Does that mean as long as we have a follow up issue open to address it we can. 568 01:01:50.670 --> 01:01:55.510 Aaron McHale: This issue could be progressed without that being blocked, because it would 569 01:01:55.630 --> 01:01:57.640 Aaron McHale: I. It would be good to be 570 01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:01.510 Aaron McHale: that you know this issue Get done so. 571 01:02:02.200 --> 01:02:13.150 Benji Fisher: and a couple of comments in Chat Ralph suggest there's another issue we discussed a while ago in the context of the visibility Tabs disability blocks, and maybe that's what we were just looking at. 572 01:02:15.010 --> 01:02:21.090 Benji Fisher: and Larry says it would be worth asking. What is the use case for referencing all bundles 573 01:02:21.140 --> 01:02:26.470 Benji Fisher: to get a better sense if we should make the change all together. So I guess the 574 01:02:27.470 --> 01:02:31.400 Benji Fisher: the issue of that Simo brought up. 575 01:02:32.040 --> 01:02:37.660 Benji Fisher: and Quinn gives a thumbs up to Larry's comment. 576 01:02:44.220 --> 01:02:57.360 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I think there is a one use case where people usually or often want to reference, all new content. all newly added content. But that's not not actually in core, because it's paragraphs. 577 01:02:57.450 --> 01:03:10.440 Simo Hellsten: So with paragraphs it's common to want to add, be able to add paragraph to that they are being able, they are able to reference them without additional settings. So with paragraphs it often helps. 578 01:03:10.750 --> 01:03:16.390 Simo Hellsten: but paragraph is not part of the core, but there might be some other use cases where it 579 01:03:16.420 --> 01:03:21.400 Simo Hellsten: is. It makes sense to have a all, all 580 01:03:22.160 --> 01:03:24.900 Simo Hellsten: all about all types 581 01:03:25.150 --> 01:03:29.040 Simo Hellsten: referencedable automatically or kind of by default. 582 01:03:29.100 --> 01:03:31.310 Simo Hellsten: So there is use cases for that. 583 01:03:31.910 --> 01:03:42.830 Benji Fisher: and Larry gives us a thumbs up. Okay, we're getting very close to the end of the hour. There's another issue that will help a lot with paragraphs. I'll I'll try to find it and mention it in 584 01:03:43.240 --> 01:03:45.680 Benji Fisher: the in the slack channel. 585 01:03:49.090 --> 01:03:51.820 Benji Fisher: So I 586 01:03:53.420 --> 01:04:02.970 Benji Fisher: I think one possibility for this issue is, instead of simply removing the required option on vocabulary. 587 01:04:02.980 --> 01:04:09.540 Benji Fisher: Flowery points out that presents certain problems. One option would be to add the radio buttons. 588 01:04:09.820 --> 01:04:11.990 and then 589 01:04:14.040 --> 01:04:19.540 Benji Fisher: I don't know if. If allow the checks 590 01:04:19.650 --> 01:04:24.270 Benji Fisher: vocabulary is is selected, then then keep it 591 01:04:24.500 --> 01:04:26.790 Benji Fisher: required, and if 592 01:04:29.350 --> 01:04:34.430 Benji Fisher: and if the other radio button is selected, then maybe the check boxes can all be unselected. 593 01:04:36.880 --> 01:04:39.800 Benji Fisher: But I I I think we we can't go ahead 594 01:04:40.150 --> 01:04:42.510 with the the issue 595 01:04:43.430 --> 01:04:48.390 Benji Fisher: as as proposed. I I think that, as Larry points out, that 596 01:04:49.090 --> 01:04:50.630 Benji Fisher: gives regressions. 597 01:04:52.290 --> 01:04:58.760 Benji Fisher: and Ralph found the issue. Thank you. This is 2 9 8 6 9 5 8, 598 01:04:58.990 --> 01:05:02.740 Benji Fisher: add support for negating user role, condition and block visibility. 599 01:05:07.200 --> 01:05:12.460 So we are at the top of the hour for a close meeting. Any last comments. 600 01:05:15.290 --> 01:05:27.360 Benji Fisher: Let's continue the discussion in slack, and and I have at least one issue. I want to search and and bring up. Thank you all for coming. It was a great discussion today. I'm. I'm glad we had a 601 01:05:28.320 --> 01:05:32.600 Benji Fisher: a lot of people presence, and i'll do it again next week. 602 01:05:32.810 --> 01:05:40.150 Benji Fisher: and and thanks. Thanks, Larry, for bringing these issues up. I'm: glad to see them getting some subtraction again after a long time. 603 01:05:46.140 --> 01:05:48.010 Simo Hellsten: Okay. thanks, everyone. 604 01:05:48.770 --> 01:05:52.060 Simo Hellsten: Thank you. Have a nice weekend. 605 01:05:52.590 --> 01:05:53.900 Aaron McHale: Hi: thanks.