WEBVTT

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Benji Fisher: welcome. This is the drupal usability meeting for April seventh, 2,023.

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Benji Fisher: I guess it's Good Friday. except in some time. Zones maybe it's already Saturday.

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Benji Fisher: and we have a small group today. But also present our Steve work. Who's sharing the screen, and we'll start off the discussion

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Benji Fisher: and regulars Ralph Kohler and Simo Helston. So go ahead, Steve.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Good morning. Thanks for having me here first time being here.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): So this is issue number 335, 138

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): and it's centers around some truncation that's being done on the alias tables. Right now. When you go to the alias admin we're truncating it at 47 characters, plus some ellipses

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): and

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): in in my work. I work on a lot of large sites that have large urls that are way longer than

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): then 47 characters. And, so, for example, this is what it looks like for Ya Gov: When I filter for Abilene Vet Center I get largely urls that I can't easily differentiate from one another.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): and even

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Google Chrome is not all that helpful, because when you hover over it it gives you like the last part, and then you have to wait while it actually sort of unfurls the the full URL at the bottom of the screen.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): And so that that's the the primary issue is to try to make that more usable.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): And if we're doing kind of a historical dive that

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): really st stems from the the the causal of this was 8,

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): 6 4 6, one. And in this

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): you know, d sort of brought out from the very beginning that you know not sure there's the proper solution. It was. Question farther down. And again this was 13 years ago. It was question farther down, Why are we choosing 50 didn't really get addressed?

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): And so

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): there was really that it wasn't really questioned at the time like, Does this make sense to do

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): It's my conjecture that this, you know the whole purpose from my mind, anyway. Is that this this

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Ui is for managing aliases, and when we hide any information about the alias that we're trying to manage, we actually get in our own way on that kind of thing.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): And so what I'm proposing is this result where we don't.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): truncate them. and it seems like the the original issue of things breaking the layout

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): has largely already been resolved. Like it doesn't break the layout.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): So if we just remove the the truncation, it doesn't seem to introduce any new problem.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): and it seems like the actual original problem sort of was solved in terms of.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): you know Css. And and flow of long, long text strings.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): The other slight issue

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): is

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): that we're also

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): in its current state. We're adding the node slash as the title I don't know if you can see it on the on, the

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): on a pop out of the of hovering over the link. But it, you know it, says Slash Node 1 7 5 1 6, which is the same thing that's actually over here.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): And also we include the title there. So if you're on a screen, reader, certain screen readers will read the title attribute if it's different from the link itself. And so you end up hearing a cascade of the node numbers

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): which is also kind of annoying. And so there was some recommendations in the

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): in this ticket to remove the the anchor titles, because they weren't really serving a purpose.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Questions at all.

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or

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Benji Fisher: I was muted Wasn't: I?

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Yeah.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): So thank you for causing us about.

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Benji Fisher: And I I posted into the zoom chat a link to a site. I set up shortly before the meeting.

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Benji Fisher: the usual Admin. Admin.

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Benji Fisher: I will get you in, and you can experiment with this yourself.

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Benji Fisher: I I was also noticing.

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Benji Fisher: as I looked at this issue. how unhelpful it was to have

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Benji Fisher: the system tab as as the title text for for both the

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Benji Fisher: the alias and the original path.

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Yeah.

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Simo Hellsten: I think it's pretty common to like like. Usually we want to reduce the use of the title now days. So that's for the accessibility.

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Simo Hellsten: So if it's not necessary, maybe

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of you.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): alright, so that the patch that I propose takes that out of both

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): the other slight change that it makes, and this is probably where there, you know, there might be more discussion is, I have the alias Link actually point to the alias.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): and I have the system path actually point to the system path where before it was also funding to the alias.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): And I did that because there are times when there are redirects.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): sometimes at play or or multiple aliases that are actually

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): causing things to string together, and it's helpful to actually have the system path

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): as a link, so that you can actually click it and see that you end up getting actually, you know, you end up resolving at that, alias.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): or if there's a if there's a redirect or something else at play, it helps you resolve that a little bit easier.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): So that was the other change that I made that was not part of the issue, but was related. may have been a little bit of scope, creep, sorry

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Benji Fisher: scope, creep is something to worry about, but not at these meetings

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): we we have the luxury of of not worrying about so creep, implementation.

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Benji Fisher: and so forth. We're only concerned with usability, and and I think that.

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Benji Fisher: having

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Benji Fisher: both links go to the alias app is both

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Benji Fisher: not helpful and confusing you. You see the highlighted Node slash 1 7 5 1 6, you expect when you click on it you'll go to node Slash

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Benji Fisher: 1 7 5 1 6,

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Benji Fisher: Ralph, did you have?

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Did Did you have any questions at this point.

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Ralf Koller: Not really a question. It's just a thumbs up, as I already did.

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Ralf Koller: Looks all good to me. The only

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Ralf Koller: no I would have is at the moment in the issue summary there, or

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Ralf Koller: E. C.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): But put ellipses in the middle. Should that be strike, or is it planned

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): in the HTML or the issue. I need to to fix that it it just for some reason it's a wrap multiple lines.

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Ralf Koller: Oh, okay. So that isn't planned anymore.

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Ralf Koller: No, that No. That. Okay? Excellent.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): I was just tossing out ideas on it in case somebody got to it before I did. But

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): but yes, that actually is there. It is deleted, you know.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): yield on the issue, but for some reason it doesn't

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): jump multiple lines.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): But I can fix that to make that clear.

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Benji Fisher: I guess, in the proposed resolution section. One other

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Benji Fisher: option has already been crossed out. Probably you should do the same with the the other. Yeah, they both are wrapped in deals, but it doesn't get the second one

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): for some reason, like the Dl. Span multiple lines. But it.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): I think it gets broken by the page. Break.

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Simo Hellsten: By the way, do you have that mobile view for this one?

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): I do not have a mobile view.

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Yeah. I can

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): shrink it down and make it look like Mobile.

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Benji Fisher: All right. So does anyone want to play devil's advocate and and say.

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Benji Fisher: This becomes harder to use on Mobile, or just looks bad on Mobile

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any any objections? Because I I think we're we're all

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Benji Fisher: pretty much in agreement. But

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Benji Fisher: if we can think of any any drawbacks

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Benji Fisher: sooner we raise them the better

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Benji Fisher: before we

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Benji Fisher: add this to 10.1 and people start complaining.

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Benji Fisher: Yeah, I I looked on the the original issue. I didn't see any screenshots of what it used to look like. Did I miss any

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): on yeah

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): on this issue?

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): This is what it used to look like before.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Is that what you mean.

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Benji Fisher: No, I I mean before before

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Benji Fisher: backpack, when the the older issue was committed before that.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Yeah. I don't believe there are any screenshots of that?

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Yeah, this is question: Why are we bumping it to 50? That's not very much. Yeah, there are no

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one.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Yeah, that was the

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Benji Fisher: So we have a. We have a current screenshot for

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Benji Fisher: so it's already broken across lines, and I guess

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Benji Fisher: I guess we're using a table. That's not surprising.

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Benji Fisher: and it's it's really, I guess, just a question.

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Benji Fisher: especially in small screens.

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Benji Fisher: Is it more important to have the full alias. or is it

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Benji Fisher: Is it more important to have something that's easy to scan.

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Benji Fisher: And yeah, I think that since I think we all agree, it's it's more important to be able to see what you

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Benji Fisher: that you're dealing with.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Yeah, I would think so. I can't imagine trying trying to manage these on a on a phone small screen, you know you can click. Can you go? That's not the one I wanted, and have to. It's hard enough to do it on a desktop, having to do it on a small screen

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): make me want to claw my eyes out even more. I think

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): if that's an efficient term.

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Simo Hellsten: I think it's Usually

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it's easier to scroll with that a small device, because they usually have touch screen, and we can use 2 thing as

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Simo Hellsten: to the direction

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good point.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): and I know my difference, not not on this call, but he raised that, you know, when this.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): when this original issue came out, it was pre iphone. So

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): it's the thing that that get the original issue with chasing it's probably not the thing you get in

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Benji Fisher: right. Maybe

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Benji Fisher: the innovation of the one of the innovations the iphone is is that you use your finger scroll rather than like a stylist or something that?

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Benji Fisher: Yeah, okay, I think

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Benji Fisher: I don't think we need to

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Benji Fisher: Labor's point. We agree. This is, this is great.

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Benji Fisher: and you can

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Benji Fisher: leave a comment on on the issue.

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Benji Fisher: and i'll and if you can link to the

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Benji Fisher: issue for today's meeting

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Benji Fisher: that'll give people a way to find the recording. When I get around to updating the recording, i'll.

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Benji Fisher: I'll give you some boilerplate text you can use in the slack channel. Bye.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Thank you so much. It was suggested on the issue that I find or see if there's a way to.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): or establish whether

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): this is considered a bug or not

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): on that one suggested that if I could make this an argument, that this is a bug, that it would be eligible back for the

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): in my mind it's above. But I don't know what what the criteria is to to satisfy. That is, that a label we have to consider, or

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anything like that.

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Benji Fisher: I think there are official descriptions somewhere. Let me see.

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Benji Fisher: like if you go to the

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Benji Fisher: for for

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Benji Fisher: editing the issue

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Benji Fisher: to to

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Benji Fisher: you should tab

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but

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Benji Fisher: priority status.

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Simo Hellsten: I think it maybe doesn't amount to a bob

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Simo Hellsten: from the keywords, but might be from accessibility. So if this kind of solves accessibility issues, then it might be something that kind of wouldn't be able to be considered

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about in the older versions.

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Benji Fisher: Yeah, if you scroll up a little bit.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Oh, too far before

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Benji Fisher: Okay. And

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Benji Fisher: if you look at the link just up and a little bit to the left of where your cursor is triple project issues

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Benji Fisher: documentation.

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Benji Fisher: and then search the page that comes up for category and click on that link or follow that link.

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Benji Fisher: Oh, it's yeah, right my bottom to page

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Benji Fisher: a bug is a functional error in the system which can have any priority from minor to critical

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Benji Fisher: well. The definition of what's commonly understood here are some examples

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Benji Fisher: down at the bottom of the list. Usability issue that prevent people from using functionality as if it didn't work at all.

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Benji Fisher: or an accessibility issue. It's with the same

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Benji Fisher: consequences.

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Ralf Koller: Technically speaking.

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Ralf Koller: incorrect or misleading user, interface text might apply cause

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Ralf Koller: It was pointing to, for the note page was pointing to the

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Ralf Koller: with all the patch, so

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Benji Fisher: I missed that 2 lines above the lines I was reading.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): It seems like there might be a couple of grounds that are kind of marginal.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): I mean. From my point of view, it doesn't get in its current state. It doesn't help me to do the job that I need to do.

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Benji Fisher: On on the other hand, there are workarounds. You can hover over the link and look at them bottom of your browser window

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right

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Benji Fisher: and and see where it goes to.

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Benji Fisher: so it doesn't prevent you from using it, but it certainly makes it harder.

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Benji Fisher: I don't have a strong opinion as to whether it counts as a bug or not. I don't have a strong opinion as to whether

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Benji Fisher: we should try to get it into the next patch release of 10.0, or be satisfied with

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Benji Fisher: 10.1.

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Benji Fisher: So I I I will need that in experience to making that call. So I I I will leave that to you and and me, Rowland's. I don't know if if Ralph receive a either, you has a strong opinion.

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Ralf Koller: I'm also having a strong opinion now.

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Benji Fisher: but at least these are the criteria to use. If if you want to continue that discussion.

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I

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Benji Fisher: I certainly think there there's a case for it.

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Benji Fisher: But

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Benji Fisher: yeah it it it's. It's up to the discretion of the core emitter, which in this case looks like it'll be

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Benji Fisher: all right. We are 20 min or so

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Benji Fisher: into the meeting.

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Benji Fisher: Shall I start sharing my screen now?

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Ralf Koller: Yup.

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Benji Fisher: minute.

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Benji Fisher: So

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Benji Fisher: one thing I i'd like to point out. So this is the

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Benji Fisher: I prepared shortly before the meeting. Notice. There's something missing under the structure Menu.

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Benji Fisher: you know, Blockland, because

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Benji Fisher: this is

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Benji Fisher: the issue i'm currently working on is to put block layout under the appearance menu where it belongs.

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Benji Fisher: which which will finish up

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Benji Fisher: at at at least the issues related to moving pages around. I I guess there are further issues related to

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Benji Fisher: things like page titles and such. So, for instance, under

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Benji Fisher: structure. I think

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Benji Fisher: proposal is to make this simple block types rather than customer block types.

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Benji Fisher: and in general change.

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Benji Fisher: custom block to content block.

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Benji Fisher: So there's still further work in there. But but sort of the the most disruptive changes are the ones that change paths and change navigation.

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Benji Fisher: And i'm. I'm working on the the last of those.

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Benji Fisher: Let's see. let's go to

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Benji Fisher: issue for today's meeting, which, for the sake of the recording. it's 3 3 5 0 2 8 4,

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Benji Fisher: Of course we have.

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Benji Fisher: I guess we

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Benji Fisher: haven't yet carried forward

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Benji Fisher: issues that are sort of waiting for you. But you can go back to last week's meeting.

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Benji Fisher: There are a bunch of

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Benji Fisher: issues listed Aaron's comment.

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Benji Fisher: So is there. Are there any things here that we're ready to discuss?

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Benji Fisher: If not, i'm willing to say that since it's a small meeting, and

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Benji Fisher: I guess it is a holiday for for many people. I'm willing to have a short meeting rather than

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Benji Fisher: try to drag it out for the full hour.

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Benji Fisher: and I see that Mike Gifford has joined us. Hi, Mike!

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Hi, Benjy, sir, for being late.

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Benji Fisher: No problem are there issues that you'd like to bring up

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): mostly. Steve encouraged me to go, and and so so it was a, you know, was going to take Easter, or try and take Easter off, but Steve was like. Come, join the meeting. So I I to make it happen.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): although a bit like, do do we solve the issue? You're working on, Steve?

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Benji Fisher: Yeah, we we we spent the first 20 min talking about that. And and basically we give it a big thumbs up.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): That's terrific.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): And we have a strong feelings about pushing for it being a bug, I guess, is the only place for sort of on the fence.

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Well, this is the URL shortener. Is that right?

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Well, it's it's a.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): I would say that it is a bug, because it's an accessibility issue. If you're if your screen reader is not able to access the information

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): heck, if everyone isn't able to access the information, it it would be a bug, would it not?

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Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): I think so.

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Benji Fisher: So yeah. We were looking at this page.

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Benji Fisher: The official definition of what constitutes a bug, and we we agreed that it.

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Benji Fisher: An argument can be made that it's incorrect or misleading user interface text.

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Benji Fisher: and that it's either a usability or accessibility issue

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Benji Fisher: that perhaps doesn't prevent you from using the functionality, but certainly makes it less convenient.

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Benji Fisher: But anyway.

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Benji Fisher: we we have agreed

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Benji Fisher: on that issue, and the question is whether there are any

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Benji Fisher: of the many issues that requested our attention that

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Benji Fisher: we're ready to look at today

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): and potentially the accessibility bugs with vertical tabs.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): 308, 1,500,

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Benji Fisher: this one

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Benji Fisher: sure. Let's take a look at that, and if you like to share your screen instead of

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Benji Fisher: have me share mine. Just let me know. Also.

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Benji Fisher: I'll I'll give it again.

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Benji Fisher: I'll share in the zoom chat the

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Benji Fisher: site I'm. Sharing.

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Benji Fisher: This is accessibility bugs with vertical tabs. It's issue 308 1 5 0 0. Mike, do you want to

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Benji Fisher: this issue?

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Yes, so I think that the the main thing about this is that there's there's, as I recall.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): issues with how the the focus is being presented in this this when you're tabbing through the site. And I think there's some screen captures at the bottom of the issue

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): very bottom.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Think that we can.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Where are we here.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Yeah, so a bit more like right. I think that this is.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): I think there's one under the She entered here. So

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): So this was a an effort to try and add more more visibility around the focus for this.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): I'm not sure how that was resolved for Clara in particular.

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Benji Fisher: So let's have a Look at this! Oh.

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Benji Fisher: and again for anyone watching the recording. This is my

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Benji Fisher: the site where i'm working on the issue to move Block lay out

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Benji Fisher: under administration. So that's

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Ralf Koller: and tree pricing.

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Benji Fisher: What's that? Perhaps just one node in regards of the block layout, I've noticed.

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Ralf Koller: Would it make sense to change the weight on the block layout. So it is

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Ralf Koller: between list and update. Maybe

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Benji Fisher: my theory is that it should be next to settings, because those are the 2 that have the same

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Benji Fisher: subsequently

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Benji Fisher: structure. I personally think that updates should be at the

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Benji Fisher: and for now i'm putting putting it next to settings.

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Benji Fisher: And

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Ralf Koller: yeah, but moving update to the complete to the right. Yeah.

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Ralf Koller: that I would. Second.

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Benji Fisher: I think that's a good idea. But I think it's out of scope for

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great

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Benji Fisher: for the the current issue. So

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Benji Fisher: all right. But anyway, back to the issue ahead we are.

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Benji Fisher: We want to look at the loop to the the issue into the in the chat as well.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Sure

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Ralf Koller: a second.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Thank you.

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Benji Fisher: Okay. And let's see what was that? Screenshot? Specifically looking at the content type.

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Benji Fisher: If I click here.

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Benji Fisher: And maybe if I tab, is that the issue?

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Yeah, I believe that that is the issue here

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Benji Fisher: between these vertical tabs. But then

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Benji Fisher: I don't see any way

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Benji Fisher: using the keyboard to get into. Yes.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Ralph, do you remember specifically what I mean? Maybe that the

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): has she?

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): I'm trying to remember what the with the specific elements for this it may not actually need a usability Review at this point, because it's got

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): it. It has enough of the the

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): I think it's just it's it's marked as Rtbc. But it and the needs for view seems to be off.

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Simo Hellsten: Yeah, so does it.

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I think one of the things that was kind of

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Simo Hellsten: considered for usability was maybe that kind of different. How it works well with those

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Simo Hellsten: not risk, like those not restricted to what what categories are selected that kind of things that's our display in that

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Simo Hellsten: on on the tab those additional information. So I think there was something

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that was.

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Simo Hellsten: I know.

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obscure.

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Simo Hellsten: but I can't recall the details. But there, I think there was one of the issues. Was we both

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Simo Hellsten: additional information

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on the Tabs.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Ralph, do you remember more information about this?

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Ralf Koller: Not really from the top of my head, but I tested right now.

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Ralf Koller: and i'm unable to reproduce the screenshot g posted.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): I think that might be with a patch applied.

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Benji Fisher: So I, just

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Benji Fisher: behind the scenes applied to Patch.

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Benji Fisher: and at this point.

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Benji Fisher: you know, the tab still

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Benji Fisher: works the same

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Ralf Koller: in no difference to be honest.

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Benji Fisher: but if I

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Benji Fisher: I keep tabbing to the bottom of the vertical tab, the next one takes me in. There. Is that a change?

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Ralf Koller: I'm not sure when you've applied the patch, but that was 2 or 3 min ago the same behavior.

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Ralf Koller: I think

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Ralf Koller: the only I think, from a. From my perspective. from a logical perspective.

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Ralf Koller: I'm not sure if it's possible. But if I tap, for example. the active tab is, let's say the pages tab.

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Ralf Koller: and if you start at the title you tap, you get into language, then pages.

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Ralf Koller: and then.

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Ralf Koller: from my understanding.

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Ralf Koller: if the focus would go into

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Ralf Koller: the pain of the pages Tab. for example, that you will then get into the

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Ralf Koller: text field for pages and then the radio buttons, and then next he would go into the roll. Step back again.

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Ralf Koller: That would be a logical order.

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Ralf Koller: You know what I mean.

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Benji Fisher: So what happens if I hit enter at this point

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Ralf Koller: you change to the tab. Yeah.

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Benji Fisher: And then, if I tab back, I go to the bottom.

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Benji Fisher: If I enter.

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Benji Fisher: then I go into there, and if I keep tabbing I go to

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): I mean so. This is attached. Go ahead.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): but it doesn't make a lot of sense to jump. I mean it should from from the roles Menu, if you go up or down, should either go to the pages or to the content type. If you're going outside of that that expanded list of when the user is the following rules: right?

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Benji Fisher: Right? So I would expect that when I back tab from here I would go back to roles.

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Ralf Koller: but I go to vocabulary.

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Benji Fisher: so let me apply the patch again.

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Benji Fisher: It is

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Benji Fisher: page.

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Benji Fisher: so i'm, still using the mouse to click here. But but now i'm tapping I hit. Enter here.

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Benji Fisher: Tab. That's expected back to back tab.

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Benji Fisher: But i'm still going to vocabulary. That's no change.

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Benji Fisher: I I I don't see what that's staging.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Yeah, it's. It's. It's definitely not not clear at this point what the what the usability review would be, or the accessibility review either

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): on this patch.

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Benji Fisher: So let's have a look. The proposed resolution. Many of the puff issues can be dressed by converting the tabs to the recommended pattern from

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Benji Fisher: in the end.

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Benji Fisher: Me open another copy of this tab and and go back to that

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Benji Fisher: screenshot we were looking at. Here at the bottom.

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Benji Fisher: The outlined area does not match the tab container in Claro.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): I'm not sure of that.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Are you using the the block? This is at least Musgrave is using the block reference for this to to go off and to evaluate it

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): when adding a block.

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Benji Fisher: Yeah, except that it's it's now admin appearance block, because I've

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Benji Fisher: working on that that issue. right?

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Benji Fisher: But other than that. Yeah, this

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Benji Fisher: that's where we started. And then I I configured

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Benji Fisher: basically any block.

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Benji Fisher: So let's

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Benji Fisher: aria attributes. That's not what we're looking at.

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Benji Fisher: The active vertical tab is marked with

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Benji Fisher: in this. Now

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Benji Fisher: it's marked with an element that is an active tab. The element has a non unique Css. Id

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Benji Fisher: who

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Benji Fisher: sadly, it will be very wrong in this filter format and extra configuration form

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Benji Fisher: for multiple vertical tabs naep here.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): I mean some of these we're not going to see in in navigating the site there will not be any visible changes with us.

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Okay.

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Benji Fisher: all of a focus, but number 3, and that is fixed.

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Ralf Koller: I I've tested it right now. If you, for example, tap in the vertical tabs and choose, for example, roles and press. Enter, then the focus

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Ralf Koller: is to the first focusable element inside the tab

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Ralf Koller: that works. But if you tap outside of it, then you get to the bottom to the vocabulary.

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Ralf Koller: That is

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Ralf Koller: the only confusing people I think the expected focal element in focus would be either pages again or language.

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Benji Fisher: I'm sorry. Can you walk me through what you're saying.

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Ralf Koller: T now

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Ralf Koller: in the keyboard with the keyboard tab.

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Benji Fisher: click into the you know the page, then click into the title field.

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Benji Fisher: Look into the title.

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Ralf Koller: Press the tap button several times to until you reach pages, for example. And now press. Enter.

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Ralf Koller: Yeah. Now the focus is on pages, and now press shift, Tab.

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Ralf Koller: Now you're at vocabulary. That's

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Ralf Koller: the thing. That is the point. Number 3 is fixed and good, but

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Ralf Koller: that I consider so that that's what I was testing before, and I think I I had the same result with and without the patch.

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Benji Fisher: I was suggesting that from here I expect to

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Benji Fisher: tab.

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Benji Fisher: Shift Tab to go to pages, but it goes to vocabulary with or without the patch

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): shift. Tab should go to pages, but if you go down to the bottom of hide for the next listed pages and go to or go from the the radio button at the bottom

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): I can. I could see that you could potentially want to go to roles versus pages.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): but certainly shift tabs. You go to pages.

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Benji Fisher: So from here one shift tab takes me to the pages text area.

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Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Yeah. So that's working properly. And but then you do another shift, Tab. Where does it go?

474
00:47:45.030 --> 00:47:46.160
Benji Fisher: Vocabulary.

475
00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:49.920
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): right? That does make a lot of sense.

476
00:47:50.430 --> 00:47:54.890
Benji Fisher: and that looks like that. Still, Hasn't been fixed because i'm working now

477
00:47:55.550 --> 00:47:58.490
Benji Fisher: with the T with the patch of 5.

478
00:48:00.080 --> 00:48:01.630
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Yep, agreed.

479
00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:10.360
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Well, that's worth noting in the issue. Queue, that's that's definitely a step to

480
00:48:13.070 --> 00:48:17.680
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): to highlight this. Yeah, to push this a little bit further.

481
00:48:23.050 --> 00:48:26.350
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): So that's all I had to to to to contribute there. Benji: Thank you.

482
00:48:26.430 --> 00:48:27.230
Benji Fisher: Okay.

483
00:48:32.750 --> 00:48:40.660
Benji Fisher: Okay. So who who volunteers to? We leave a comment with that? Shall I do it? Since I'm the one who's actually doing the testing here.

484
00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:44.140
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): If you could, Benji, that'd be great.

485
00:48:47.460 --> 00:48:49.540
Benji Fisher: you can do to

486
00:48:52.930 --> 00:48:55.390
Benji Fisher: little more than 15 min left.

487
00:48:58.110 --> 00:49:00.520
Benji Fisher: so we go back to this one, the

488
00:49:03.520 --> 00:49:09.320
Benji Fisher: configuring blocks to shore hide on on page not found, and access to night errors.

489
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:10.580
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Sure.

490
00:49:14.120 --> 00:49:16.610
Benji Fisher: So we already talked about this

491
00:49:17.990 --> 00:49:21.280
Benji Fisher: back in January. I think we've talked about it more recently than that

492
00:49:21.660 --> 00:49:24.260
Ralf Koller: last week or the week before, I think.

493
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:26.350
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Okay.

494
00:49:32.690 --> 00:49:35.540
Benji Fisher: Okay. So the issue is

495
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:40.050
Benji Fisher: 2 2 4 5 7 6 7,

496
00:49:42.830 --> 00:49:47.380
Benji Fisher: allow blocks to be configured to show or hide on

497
00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:51.330
Benji Fisher: 200. 403. Slash 4 with 4 response pages.

498
00:49:55.120 --> 00:49:55.930
Benji Fisher: Is that

499
00:49:56.110 --> 00:49:59.780
Benji Fisher: title clear enough for those at the meeting, or should we elaborate?

500
00:50:03.350 --> 00:50:06.210
Benji Fisher: I don't hear anyone ask me for further explanation?

501
00:50:10.680 --> 00:50:13.410
Benji Fisher: There's an open question about the wording

502
00:50:18.740 --> 00:50:23.100
Benji Fisher: of the warning message. No, I'm saying, we can get the wrong

503
00:50:24.830 --> 00:50:26.200
Benji Fisher: here we go.

504
00:50:29.070 --> 00:50:31.160
Benji Fisher: So this is this is the comment.

505
00:50:33.150 --> 00:50:38.830
Benji Fisher: Looks like some questions around the exact wording, and whether in the gate option should be provided

506
00:50:39.010 --> 00:50:42.420
Benji Fisher: instead of the 200 status code check box.

507
00:50:48.040 --> 00:50:53.630
Benji Fisher: Oh, and we had several ideas the last time we talked about this

508
00:50:53.990 --> 00:50:56.890
Benji Fisher: I have a feeling. It was 2 weeks ago.

509
00:50:57.870 --> 00:50:59.130
Benji Fisher: I'm afraid I haven't.

510
00:50:59.300 --> 00:51:02.090
Benji Fisher: or maybe I have published the reporting

511
00:51:04.210 --> 00:51:09.700
Benji Fisher: so it's it's the same block configuration page that we've been looking at for the last few minutes.

512
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:18.680
Benji Fisher: and the proposal is, in addition to pages, roles, content type, and vocabulary. adding a new vertical tab

513
00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:20.540
Benji Fisher: or response status.

514
00:51:22.450 --> 00:51:24.640
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): The check boxes here.

515
00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:28.700
Benji Fisher: and maybe i'll open the

516
00:51:29.740 --> 00:51:32.140
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): imaging a separate tab

517
00:51:33.080 --> 00:51:35.820
Benji Fisher: just a screenshot. But I don't know.

518
00:51:39.190 --> 00:51:40.580
Benji Fisher: but I I guess

519
00:51:41.930 --> 00:51:54.840
Benji Fisher: one of our suggestions was. instead of adding a new vertical tab to provide additional options in the pages vertical Tab

520
00:52:01.170 --> 00:52:04.560
Benji Fisher: and Mike, Are you giving us something in slack?

521
00:52:07.590 --> 00:52:12.960
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): I just commented to to to Steven Musgrave that this is

522
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:18.490
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): about the previous issue to let him know, because he wanted me to to to to comment on it. So that was all.

523
00:52:20.780 --> 00:52:22.480
Benji Fisher: Okay.

524
00:52:24.750 --> 00:52:29.540
Benji Fisher: So I guess one of our suggestions was was to add the options here under pages.

525
00:52:31.010 --> 00:52:37.610
Benji Fisher: There's also the broader issue of this

526
00:52:39.330 --> 00:52:51.170
Benji Fisher: common pattern. For for many of these restrictions, such as language. if none are selected, all languages will be allowed. and I think that we generally create

527
00:52:51.520 --> 00:53:00.740
Benji Fisher: that although it's a commonly used pattern, it's not a good pattern. and it's better to have the explicit show or hide

528
00:53:03.110 --> 00:53:04.660
Benji Fisher: radio buttons.

529
00:53:05.210 --> 00:53:14.330
Benji Fisher: but that that is out of scope for for this issue about or 2, 4, or 3, or 4 or 3 or 4 responses.

530
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:19.080
Benji Fisher: So.

531
00:53:19.290 --> 00:53:26.770
Benji Fisher: Ralph Simo, do you remember where where we settled on that last time we talked about it? We were we leaning towards

532
00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:36.280
Benji Fisher: having a separate vertical tab response data as as in screenshot. or where we. thinking it would be better to.

533
00:53:37.370 --> 00:53:39.490
Benji Fisher: I had additional options under here.

534
00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:47.530
Ralf Koller: and, as far as I remember, we were leaning towards

535
00:53:48.030 --> 00:53:50.070
Ralf Koller: additional options on the pages.

536
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:53.400
Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I agree.

537
00:53:54.340 --> 00:54:04.240
Simo Hellsten: And we were discussing about adding those kind of a similar kind of tags like the front page, but that was something that we weren't like

538
00:54:04.470 --> 00:54:09.000
clear about. But that was something we thought would be a good idea.

539
00:54:11.060 --> 00:54:12.130
Benji Fisher: Well, that's right.

540
00:54:12.300 --> 00:54:17.430
Ralf Koller: I think you, pen. She had also the idea of adding a indication

541
00:54:19.390 --> 00:54:25.100
Ralf Koller: to those pages field within with an exclamation, Mark something

542
00:54:26.870 --> 00:54:31.910
Ralf Koller: Oh, yes, but that that that that's also

543
00:54:32.560 --> 00:54:37.300
Ralf Koller: what a good idea! And yeah, that's

544
00:54:37.500 --> 00:54:38.670
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): basically it.

545
00:54:40.370 --> 00:54:50.190
Ralf Koller: But from the we've talked about in, I think, last year in October. on on a similar issue on another tab of that visibility

546
00:54:50.510 --> 00:54:54.220
Ralf Koller: section. And we also said that the

547
00:54:54.830 --> 00:55:05.020
Ralf Koller: yeah on one hand, make the show and height radio buttons consistent for all the other tabs, but also move those those ready buttons up.

548
00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:08.530
Ralf Koller: meaning first the radio buttons and then

549
00:55:08.570 --> 00:55:09.950
Ralf Koller: the conditions.

550
00:55:11.520 --> 00:55:13.080
Ralf Koller: That's also in detail

551
00:55:13.600 --> 00:55:18.500
Benji Fisher: and in the zoom chat like suggests having the 404

552
00:55:19.120 --> 00:55:25.340
Benji Fisher: option behave the same way as the front. And and yeah, that that is what what we were thinking of.

553
00:55:30.620 --> 00:55:33.220
Benji Fisher: right? Okay, so I I think actually

554
00:55:34.600 --> 00:55:40.030
Benji Fisher: we had some good ideas 2 weeks ago. I'm pretty sure. It was 2 weeks ago, and

555
00:55:42.260 --> 00:55:43.900
Benji Fisher: we just

556
00:55:44.490 --> 00:55:46.760
Benji Fisher: haven't gotten around yet to

557
00:55:49.460 --> 00:55:52.430
Benji Fisher: posting a comment with the results. That discussion.

558
00:55:52.830 --> 00:55:55.790
Benji Fisher: which is sort of my fault, because

559
00:55:59.530 --> 00:56:00.660
Benji Fisher: because I

560
00:56:00.940 --> 00:56:06.840
Benji Fisher: I focused on on block layout under appearance.

561
00:56:08.200 --> 00:56:10.940
Benji Fisher: and I just didn't have time to do that.

562
00:56:12.770 --> 00:56:18.700
Benji Fisher: So so yeah, I I think what I need to do is go back to that recording and see what our

563
00:56:18.890 --> 00:56:21.970
Benji Fisher: our decisions were, and and come up with a comment.

564
00:56:33.050 --> 00:56:39.730
Benji Fisher: All right, so we do have a little less than 10 min left at this point

565
00:56:40.530 --> 00:56:45.260
Benji Fisher: again. Here's the list of issues. I don't think we really have time

566
00:56:46.560 --> 00:56:49.810
Benji Fisher: to discuss anything else unless any of these look

567
00:56:50.430 --> 00:56:53.060
Benji Fisher: familiar and quick.

568
00:56:53.440 --> 00:56:54.200
Benji Fisher: Go ahead.

569
00:56:54.370 --> 00:56:58.940
Ralf Koller: There was one issue we've talked about last week on the week before

570
00:56:59.110 --> 00:57:02.980
Ralf Koller: was just about smitting one.

571
00:57:03.130 --> 00:57:04.830
Ralf Koller: and they came

572
00:57:05.230 --> 00:57:07.510
Ralf Koller: just searching the

573
00:57:08.360 --> 00:57:14.530
Ralf Koller: notifications males right now by the Roland.

574
00:57:16.620 --> 00:57:19.020
Ralf Koller: The issue was set to LGBT,

575
00:57:19.490 --> 00:57:23.350
Ralf Koller: but there was a comments, and that

576
00:57:23.990 --> 00:57:27.810
Ralf Koller: was recommended to take into recommendation 1 s.

577
00:57:29.020 --> 00:57:30.060
Ralf Koller: Where is it?

578
00:57:45.610 --> 00:57:47.780
Benji Fisher: And I guess I'd also like to

579
00:57:48.170 --> 00:57:53.000
Benji Fisher: think about this one. I don't know if 10 min is enough time to get to it. Justice.

580
00:57:53.440 --> 00:57:57.410
Benji Fisher: but number 3 3 2 5 4 4 5

581
00:57:59.020 --> 00:58:02.740
Benji Fisher: policy issue. Remove tour module from core.

582
00:58:03.810 --> 00:58:05.100
Benji Fisher: and I guess

583
00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:11.700
Benji Fisher: issue Tags needs further discussion. I haven't seen that tag before.

584
00:58:20.510 --> 00:58:23.980
Benji Fisher: Where was the needs Usability review, Tag added.

585
00:58:27.010 --> 00:58:28.580
Benji Fisher: There you go in this comment.

586
00:58:31.600 --> 00:58:34.530
Benji Fisher: So the people even know what the tour module is.

587
00:58:35.560 --> 00:58:36.480
Ralf Koller: Yes.

588
00:58:38.140 --> 00:58:40.040
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): it was such a great idea.

589
00:58:41.340 --> 00:58:42.630
Ralf Koller: and it still is

590
00:58:44.710 --> 00:58:50.470
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): just like so many things like wasn't wasn't consistently used in a way that that

591
00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:53.380
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): I think made it worthwhile maintain.

592
00:58:54.640 --> 00:58:59.730
Benji Fisher: Since tour is a usability feature. I think this would need a usability signed off on removing it.

593
00:59:00.740 --> 00:59:05.990
Benji Fisher: My personal perspective is that we need to write more tours and enable towards part of standard.

594
00:59:11.720 --> 00:59:13.830
Ralf Koller: probably in line with it. Statement.

595
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:15.870
Benji Fisher: say again.

596
00:59:16.130 --> 00:59:26.250
Ralf Koller: totally in line with the statement that there should be more tour who was written, and and to enabled as part of standard.

597
00:59:28.240 --> 00:59:34.570
Ralf Koller: But the tour module has one nature flow. I've noticed in the context of

598
00:59:35.120 --> 00:59:38.880
Ralf Koller: meaning. If you have modules already installed.

599
00:59:39.570 --> 00:59:42.150
Ralf Koller: and you.

600
00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:43.770
Ralf Koller: It's

601
00:59:43.970 --> 00:59:46.410
Ralf Koller: a tour afterwards

602
00:59:46.520 --> 00:59:53.640
Ralf Koller: that config isn't loaded. You have to uninstall the module and reinstall it. Otherwise. that's who it won't show up.

603
00:59:56.160 --> 00:59:59.320
Ralf Koller: That's a significant problem.

604
00:59:59.480 --> 01:00:08.040
Benji Fisher: Well, that's that's a bug to be fixed. That is not a an argument, for on installing the tour module. so

605
01:00:09.470 --> 01:00:13.950
Ralf Koller: no, not the 2 module you have to uninstall the the the module

606
01:00:14.420 --> 01:00:16.220
Ralf Koller: containing the new tour.

607
01:00:16.530 --> 01:00:25.700
Benji Fisher: Right? Right? I I I understand the issue. But what i'm saying is that that that is above to be fixed. That is not a reason for removing the tour module from

608
01:00:25.830 --> 01:00:27.250
Benji Fisher: that way. Yeah.

609
01:00:30.010 --> 01:00:33.710
Benji Fisher: it's also not an argument for keeping it it. It it is just a bug.

610
01:00:35.530 --> 01:00:39.730
Benji Fisher: Oh, I don't see any tours on this page. How about

611
01:00:40.030 --> 01:00:41.010
Ralf Koller: we use

612
01:00:43.090 --> 01:00:45.790
Benji Fisher: views? All right.

613
01:00:47.510 --> 01:00:49.060
Benji Fisher: I was thinking of

614
01:00:49.260 --> 01:00:52.040
Benji Fisher: feel to I, but let's

615
01:00:52.830 --> 01:00:57.430
Benji Fisher: that it doesn't know your view. and there's a tour button up here.

616
01:01:01.020 --> 01:01:03.200
Benji Fisher: Manage these settings.

617
01:01:05.260 --> 01:01:07.780
Benji Fisher: I don't see where that's attached to

618
01:01:08.120 --> 01:01:14.100
Ralf Koller: That's the overall point of the

619
01:01:14.640 --> 01:01:18.480
Ralf Koller: tip should have no focus at all. Okay.

620
01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:23.870
Benji Fisher: and then it steps you through the various

621
01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:26.150
Benji Fisher: things you can do on the page.

622
01:01:32.570 --> 01:01:34.030
Benji Fisher: Poker, criteria

623
01:01:36.150 --> 01:01:37.430
Benji Fisher: source criteria.

624
01:01:38.670 --> 01:01:40.080
Sorry actually

625
01:01:41.560 --> 01:01:46.530
Benji Fisher: preview. but it doesn't show us anything under events.

626
01:01:47.740 --> 01:01:49.410
Benji Fisher: But I suppose that's appropriate.

627
01:01:53.910 --> 01:01:57.140
Benji Fisher: So we have 4 min left. So just

628
01:01:58.390 --> 01:02:01.310
Benji Fisher: does anyone have strong opinions.

629
01:02:02.300 --> 01:02:04.880
Benji Fisher: Is this something we should keep, and

630
01:02:05.520 --> 01:02:16.370
Benji Fisher: and finally move forward on on creating tours which we've been talking about for a long time. or the fact that we haven't added tours in a long time

631
01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:21.570
Benji Fisher: is that an indication that this should be moved to a

632
01:02:22.740 --> 01:02:26.510
Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I think one of the questions is, if it will be

633
01:02:26.780 --> 01:02:32.310
Simo Hellsten: easier or quicker to add stuff to tour

634
01:02:32.530 --> 01:02:35.990
Simo Hellsten: if it's a concrete. So if it's kind of

635
01:02:36.390 --> 01:02:42.440
Simo Hellsten: if it's easier to add stuff, and maybe add some experimental stuff if it's needed.

636
01:02:42.660 --> 01:02:46.820
Simo Hellsten: or if it's kind of if if it could be a

637
01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:53.100
Simo Hellsten: more freely if it's not in the core. So I think that's one issue. But yeah, I don't have a stronger

638
01:02:53.110 --> 01:02:54.520
Simo Hellsten: opinion about that.

639
01:02:56.970 --> 01:03:00.300
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): You'd be so nice to have some actual data about what

640
01:03:00.370 --> 01:03:10.610
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): authors and administrators find useful. And if the tour module as it is now is providing any benefit for people learning learning how to use Drupal effectively.

641
01:03:15.830 --> 01:03:26.600
Benji Fisher: Yeah. So getting some user testing would be really nice. And unfortunately there are not a lot of people saying, oh, I love to do user. Testing. What could I test

642
01:03:26.870 --> 01:03:28.070
Benji Fisher: It's

643
01:03:29.330 --> 01:03:31.180
Benji Fisher: it. It. It's hard to

644
01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:34.580
Benji Fisher: get actual tests d10,

645
01:03:35.800 --> 01:03:39.210
Benji Fisher: you just have 2 min.

646
01:03:40.620 --> 01:03:44.050
Benji Fisher: so let me point out

647
01:03:44.370 --> 01:03:50.720
Benji Fisher: something that was mentioned in the usability Channel recently.

648
01:03:54.490 --> 01:03:55.660
Benji Fisher: Here we go.

649
01:03:56.790 --> 01:03:59.560
Benji Fisher: The link is unfortunately

650
01:03:59.890 --> 01:04:03.720
Benji Fisher: a number but

651
01:04:04.370 --> 01:04:09.650
Benji Fisher: 154-38-8715,

652
01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:15.160
Benji Fisher: I've already done this, but it's a card sorting exercise

653
01:04:18.250 --> 01:04:19.260
Benji Fisher: or

654
01:04:21.460 --> 01:04:31.820
Benji Fisher: field Ui. And when you click on this add new field button. They're totally redesigning. This. I think they say they're not going to be using a select list anymore.

655
01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:35.710
Benji Fisher: but it's a card sorting exercise for all of these options.

656
01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:38.500
Benji Fisher: So

657
01:04:38.960 --> 01:04:47.320
Benji Fisher: I encourage you and anyone who's watching the recording to help out with that card sorting exercise and help with the redesign

658
01:04:47.630 --> 01:04:49.100
Benji Fisher: of the fuel to I,

659
01:04:51.520 --> 01:04:55.760
Benji Fisher: and we're just 1 min from the hour. So Thank you all for attending.

660
01:04:57.500 --> 01:04:59.960
Benji Fisher: Yes, i'll share the link again.

661
01:05:00.180 --> 01:05:02.770
Benji Fisher: I'll I'll put it again in the slack channel. Okay.

662
01:05:04.860 --> 01:05:06.700
Mike Gifford (CivicActions): Thank you. That's great.

663
01:05:06.950 --> 01:05:10.650
Benji Fisher: and and we'll be back in a week.

664
01:05:11.280 --> 01:05:13.000
Steve Wirt CivicActions (Venice FL): Thank you all for everything.

665
01:05:13.220 --> 01:05:14.610
Simo Hellsten: Yep.

666
01:05:15.630 --> 01:05:17.120
Ralf Koller: Last weekend, everyone

667
01:05:17.580 --> 01:05:18.160
Benji Fisher: you.