WEBVTT 53 00:10:56.330 --> 00:11:00.440 Benji Fisher: This is the tuple usability meeting from May nineteenth 2,023. 54 00:11:00.620 --> 00:11:05.710 Benji Fisher: I'm Benji fisher moderating, and also here are Ralph Coler sharing his screen 55 00:11:05.890 --> 00:11:11.610 Benji Fisher: and he'll start off the conversation. and also Aaron Mikhail in them. 56 00:11:11.830 --> 00:11:14.440 Benji Fisher: and simultaneously Go ahead, Ralph. 57 00:11:15.390 --> 00:11:25.090 Ralf Koller: We're looking at the issue Number 250263. This a text from us can't be seen in the Gui. 58 00:11:27.860 --> 00:11:30.540 Ralf Koller: I've prepared 59 00:11:36.700 --> 00:11:39.930 Ralf Koller: us Oops a site 60 00:11:46.190 --> 00:11:48.330 Ralf Koller: post. The link into the chat 61 00:11:54.990 --> 00:12:01.470 Ralf Koller: problem is the following: I've already prepared a text from it. If you go in there. 62 00:12:04.010 --> 00:12:10.870 Ralf Koller: I've set the roles for Content Editor and the administrator and text that it's the 5. Nothing special 63 00:12:11.060 --> 00:12:13.550 Ralf Koller: problem is the following. 64 00:12:13.590 --> 00:12:20.490 Ralf Koller: If you have my new text format, let's say. like, also create an article. 65 00:12:21.570 --> 00:12:22.780 Ralf Koller: tests 66 00:12:23.020 --> 00:12:24.630 Ralf Koller: and set 67 00:12:24.730 --> 00:12:26.880 Ralf Koller: it to my new text from it. 68 00:12:27.280 --> 00:12:28.720 Ralf Koller: and safe 69 00:12:31.640 --> 00:12:41.960 Ralf Koller: and current behavior. If you click here on disable. you get the warning. Are you sure you want to disable sex format my new text format 70 00:12:42.010 --> 00:12:51.000 Ralf Koller: this table text formats are completely removed from the administrative interface, and any content stored with that format will not be displayed, as action cannot be undone. 71 00:12:51.100 --> 00:12:53.510 Ralf Koller: disable. and it's gone. 72 00:12:54.790 --> 00:12:57.300 Ralf Koller: and if you go in there 73 00:12:59.910 --> 00:13:02.180 Ralf Koller: oh. it is set back to 74 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:08.130 Ralf Koller: basic HTML. When I've test before with the patch of light we will see in a second 75 00:13:12.890 --> 00:13:14.550 Ralf Koller: it's oh. 76 00:13:18.920 --> 00:13:20.230 Ralf Koller: so one 77 00:13:30.290 --> 00:13:35.410 Ralf Koller: we are, and let's see if you go pick him there. 78 00:13:36.890 --> 00:13:39.810 Ralf Koller: My new text from the spec, and 79 00:13:40.270 --> 00:13:42.880 Ralf Koller: as the operation you have here enable. 80 00:13:45.390 --> 00:13:48.780 Ralf Koller: Let's go back in there. It's a bit 81 00:13:52.900 --> 00:13:56.050 Ralf Koller: Oops should have enabled it 82 00:14:01.310 --> 00:14:02.280 Ralf Koller: at it. 83 00:14:06.180 --> 00:14:08.120 Ralf Koller: It's so much safe. 84 00:14:08.270 --> 00:14:09.840 Ralf Koller: and 85 00:14:10.180 --> 00:14:15.820 Ralf Koller: that's I think detail I wanted to show If you go on disable now. 86 00:14:16.070 --> 00:14:17.070 Ralf Koller: Disabled 87 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:21.040 Ralf Koller: right? 88 00:14:26.270 --> 00:14:26.940 Ralf Koller: Oh. 89 00:14:28.670 --> 00:14:33.890 Ralf Koller: in my previous test. let's take someone who's empty. But that way it's okay. 90 00:14:34.540 --> 00:14:41.070 Ralf Koller: Another is set. Yeah, that's basically it. 91 00:14:41.950 --> 00:14:42.930 Ralf Koller: The 92 00:14:42.940 --> 00:14:44.810 Ralf Koller: text format is. 93 00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:50.300 Ralf Koller: if it's disabled, is shown. The only detail is something I've 94 00:14:51.760 --> 00:14:55.390 Ralf Koller: already left a comments a while ago. 95 00:14:57.500 --> 00:15:01.620 Ralf Koller: I consider it a bit difficult to distinguish 96 00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:06.450 Ralf Koller: active, enabled text formats, and in disabled ones 97 00:15:06.580 --> 00:15:12.710 Ralf Koller: One suggestion I've posted in in. 98 00:15:12.870 --> 00:15:14.720 Benji Fisher: or we get into the details. 99 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:19.450 Benji Fisher: I forget why, but 100 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:25.180 Benji Fisher: text formats our configuration of things. 101 00:15:25.430 --> 00:15:26.920 Benji Fisher: and 102 00:15:26.980 --> 00:15:32.810 Benji Fisher: it is possible to completely delete them. If you're using config management. 103 00:15:33.410 --> 00:15:39.630 Benji Fisher: and there's some reason Why, you can't do that in the Ui. All you can do is disable them. 104 00:15:40.390 --> 00:15:47.700 Benji Fisher: But yes, the current status is that when you disable them they don't show up in the Y, 105 00:15:48.250 --> 00:15:50.510 Benji Fisher: and there's no way to re-enable them. 106 00:15:51.350 --> 00:15:59.990 Benji Fisher: And and I think that's all that this issue is changing right. It's. It's keeping them in the Ui, so you can enable them again if you choose. 107 00:16:01.260 --> 00:16:03.270 Benji Fisher: Does anyone else have questions about this? 108 00:16:05.570 --> 00:16:07.230 Simo Hellsten: I'm wondering 109 00:16:07.260 --> 00:16:10.240 Simo Hellsten: No, because now we are on for that 110 00:16:11.330 --> 00:16:16.580 Simo Hellsten: with a single text area. So and I 111 00:16:16.760 --> 00:16:19.770 Simo Hellsten: don't remember that wording of the 112 00:16:19.990 --> 00:16:21.280 Simo Hellsten: warning text. 113 00:16:21.660 --> 00:16:30.740 Simo Hellsten: But I was thinking we did. If there is a content type, with, let's say, long text with full HTML, and then. 114 00:16:30.900 --> 00:16:39.740 Simo Hellsten: like a summary separate summary field, with the custom HTML so. or kind of a mixture of different 115 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:44.180 Simo Hellsten: text formats in one content type. Will it fit them? 116 00:16:45.280 --> 00:16:47.690 Simo Hellsten: Oh. warning text! 117 00:16:54.280 --> 00:16:56.900 Simo Hellsten: So what was it talking about? Content or 118 00:16:57.700 --> 00:17:00.730 Simo Hellsten: field or text, or what was the waiting. 119 00:17:05.130 --> 00:17:09.720 Benji Fisher: So so the current wording when you disable a text format is that you're asking for 120 00:17:15.589 --> 00:17:18.740 Simo Hellsten: what you want to know. Yeah, that's one. 121 00:17:19.300 --> 00:17:23.060 Benji Fisher: Okay. I'm. pasting it into the zoom chat. 122 00:17:23.690 --> 00:17:26.849 Benji Fisher: I have a a a plane Jupiter 123 00:17:27.550 --> 00:17:28.300 Benji Fisher: side. 124 00:17:28.530 --> 00:17:39.810 Benji Fisher: and the text is disabled. Text Formats are completely removed from the administrative interface. and any content stored with that format will not be displayed. This action cannot be undone. 125 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:49.640 Benji Fisher: and what Ralph is sharing is the shorter message with the to patch applied right? 126 00:17:49.900 --> 00:17:50.530 Ralf Koller: Yep. 127 00:17:58.650 --> 00:18:02.130 Simo Hellsten: that answer your question. So i'm thinking 128 00:18:02.980 --> 00:18:08.800 Simo Hellsten: usually when we say content, we have a kind of a when we have the content Menu. 129 00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:17.610 Simo Hellsten: But is it too technical to say you here? Any fields using? 130 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.370 Simo Hellsten: But no, that then it also different. 131 00:18:22.940 --> 00:18:27.390 Simo Hellsten: So could could it be more precise with any field content stored with 132 00:18:29.970 --> 00:18:33.030 Benji Fisher: You're right. That that would be more accurate. 133 00:18:34.100 --> 00:18:38.920 Benji Fisher: I would say that's out of scope for the current issue. But 134 00:18:40.230 --> 00:18:51.100 Benji Fisher: but but yes, it it would be more accurate to say that any text field stored with the with the full HTML format will not be displayed. 135 00:18:53.510 --> 00:18:58.560 Benji Fisher: Yeah, Content usually refers to a note, or sometimes refers to 136 00:18:58.780 --> 00:19:02.860 Benji Fisher: nodes and text on me terms and other content entities. 137 00:19:07.900 --> 00:19:09.520 Simo Hellsten: but also here 138 00:19:10.890 --> 00:19:11.860 Simo Hellsten: kind of a 139 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:16.410 to display the 140 00:19:16.530 --> 00:19:21.600 Simo Hellsten: yield in the phone. But all right. Yeah. So it's 141 00:19:22.340 --> 00:19:27.290 Simo Hellsten: a little bit confusing what it actually does when one disables it. 142 00:19:28.790 --> 00:19:32.600 Simo Hellsten: and especially when. if it can't be an undone. 143 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:46.600 Simo Hellsten: But here, with the touch it as enable and disabled. and it's something that just 144 00:19:47.930 --> 00:19:56.760 Simo Hellsten: restores the old content. so that it's kind of a just like it wasn't ever disabled. If it's not so. 145 00:20:03.890 --> 00:20:07.630 Benji Fisher: i'm not sure, Ralph. Do you know 146 00:20:09.260 --> 00:20:15.580 Benji Fisher: I I I assume that when you enable the text format again, you can once again display the text. 147 00:20:19.390 --> 00:20:23.550 Ralf Koller: as as I've shown as I've shown the 148 00:20:28.650 --> 00:20:29.920 Ralf Koller: 1 s. Let's 149 00:20:30.570 --> 00:20:31.830 Ralf Koller: test it again. 150 00:20:38.270 --> 00:20:38.840 Yes. 151 00:20:40.570 --> 00:20:42.290 Ralf Koller: Code 6. 152 00:20:42.870 --> 00:20:44.700 Ralf Koller: It's full of hml 153 00:20:48.360 --> 00:20:49.370 Ralf Koller: disable. 154 00:21:00.650 --> 00:21:06.490 Ralf Koller: I don't know it's no, it's this select that I was trying to get to. 155 00:21:08.830 --> 00:21:10.750 Ralf Koller: And you're able to 156 00:21:11.810 --> 00:21:12.960 Ralf Koller: reselect 157 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.840 Ralf Koller: something else and 158 00:21:16.540 --> 00:21:19.520 Ralf Koller: let's test it enable 159 00:21:22.020 --> 00:21:24.310 Ralf Koller: right content. 160 00:21:32.350 --> 00:21:33.670 Ralf Koller: Yeah, it's remembered. 161 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:45.090 Aaron McHale: So a behavior that the patch is the issue is introducing. 162 00:21:47.080 --> 00:21:54.200 Aaron McHale: Or is that how a court behaves? If you load something with a text format that's not available. 163 00:21:59.010 --> 00:22:05.470 Aaron McHale: because I seem to remember that if a tech, if you, as a user for instance, go to edit piece of content where 164 00:22:05.930 --> 00:22:15.510 Aaron McHale: you happen to not have access to the text format, it will, I believe it just shows the field as as not available to edit, so i'm wondering if that's the 165 00:22:16.520 --> 00:22:20.160 Aaron McHale: you know. If there's a change there in terms of how that behavior 166 00:22:25.110 --> 00:22:27.590 Ralf Koller: i'm not sure 167 00:22:28.600 --> 00:22:29.660 Ralf Koller: the 168 00:22:30.610 --> 00:22:34.000 Ralf Koller: select option like we saw right now. 169 00:22:34.120 --> 00:22:39.680 Ralf Koller: I was unable to reproduce before that without the patch of light. So 170 00:22:40.180 --> 00:22:42.280 Aaron McHale: okay, that might be the 171 00:22:43.370 --> 00:22:48.240 Aaron McHale: Yeah, that's probably the the default they the core behavior. Then today That's fine. 172 00:22:48.380 --> 00:22:54.380 Aaron McHale: It's just wondering if if you know if this issue is making to the changes that behavior, if you would want to. 173 00:22:54.490 --> 00:22:55.480 Aaron McHale: Okay. 174 00:22:55.690 --> 00:22:56.920 Ralf Koller: quickly. 175 00:22:57.830 --> 00:23:03.220 Ralf Koller: I I just pasted it into the zoom chat, a link to the site that I set up. 176 00:23:03.760 --> 00:23:09.370 Benji Fisher: So that's just using your mommy with Google 10.1. 177 00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:13.760 Benji Fisher: And I removed a 178 00:23:13.860 --> 00:23:28.800 Benji Fisher: text format, and if you click on that link you'll you'll see that the body feels all gone. If I could go back to to the edit page. I see that nothing is selected for text format. 179 00:23:29.520 --> 00:23:30.900 Aaron McHale: Okay. 180 00:23:31.080 --> 00:23:33.140 Benji Fisher: But the the text is still there. 181 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:36.420 Benji Fisher: So I I think that's the same 182 00:23:37.320 --> 00:23:40.050 Benji Fisher: behavior that that we're seeing with the patch. 183 00:23:40.310 --> 00:23:42.020 Benji Fisher: Yeah, this is exactly what I see. 184 00:23:46.060 --> 00:23:46.890 Aaron McHale: Hmm. 185 00:23:49.460 --> 00:23:50.360 Aaron McHale: Okay. 186 00:23:50.380 --> 00:23:55.660 Benji Fisher: So I I wouldn't expect that to. He changed by the patch. 187 00:23:55.830 --> 00:24:07.640 Benji Fisher: Yeah, in in the zoom chat, when asks how frequently do users typically disable the text formatting. I would say, it's something that comes up very often. 188 00:24:12.830 --> 00:24:25.800 Benji Fisher: Yeah. Only if you decide. Oh, my God! The editing experience is too complicated, and part of the problem is that we have too many text formats on our site. I'm going to get rid of one. 189 00:24:26.470 --> 00:24:31.880 Benji Fisher: That's that's the basic scenario for removing a text format 190 00:24:33.280 --> 00:24:38.610 Benji Fisher: it. It's it's pretty rare in in my experience. Anyone else have have thoughts on that. 191 00:24:40.590 --> 00:24:43.560 Aaron McHale: Well, I I think that behavior might. 192 00:24:43.910 --> 00:24:50.300 Aaron McHale: you know. So in 10.1 we don't have the ability to restrict which text formats are available per field. 193 00:24:50.460 --> 00:24:51.220 Aaron McHale: So 194 00:24:51.230 --> 00:24:53.180 Aaron McHale: I wonder if that you know 195 00:24:53.800 --> 00:24:55.060 Aaron McHale: people will will 196 00:24:55.500 --> 00:25:00.360 Aaron McHale: use so disabled Text formats less often, and we'll because there'll be. 197 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.300 Aaron McHale: It'll be more visible on a field. You can. You can. 198 00:25:03.360 --> 00:25:05.540 You can set which formats are available. 199 00:25:06.290 --> 00:25:09.530 Benji Fisher: That's right. I'd forgotten about that. Yeah. 200 00:25:09.670 --> 00:25:13.740 Benji Fisher: you're right. So it's it's it's already rare, and it will get even more rare. 201 00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:14.860 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 202 00:25:22.170 --> 00:25:23.390 Simo Hellsten: is it also? 203 00:25:23.620 --> 00:25:29.880 Simo Hellsten: Okay. So I don't remember having all those fixed for you? This so is it also 204 00:25:30.420 --> 00:25:32.480 Simo Hellsten: install profile specific. 205 00:25:32.550 --> 00:25:36.510 Simo Hellsten: So if you start with minimal, then you need create what you need 206 00:25:42.110 --> 00:25:44.750 Benji Fisher: right. And if you start with mommy, you got 207 00:25:45.930 --> 00:25:51.150 Benji Fisher: basic restricted, full HTML and plain text. 208 00:25:52.660 --> 00:25:57.570 Benji Fisher: I think, yeah, it looks like the same as what Ralph has with the 209 00:25:57.970 --> 00:25:58.550 Ralf Koller: yeah 210 00:25:58.750 --> 00:26:00.690 Benji Fisher: standard profile. 211 00:26:08.510 --> 00:26:17.270 Benji Fisher: Okay? So I I think we all understand what the issue is dealing with and what changes it makes. 212 00:26:20.820 --> 00:26:25.720 Benji Fisher: So what? What is the usability? Question here? 213 00:26:27.780 --> 00:26:31.580 Ralf Koller: The only detail that talk to me is. 214 00:26:32.580 --> 00:26:37.030 Ralf Koller: I have a hard time to distinguish between enabled and disabled 215 00:26:37.410 --> 00:26:43.860 Ralf Koller: text form, of course, owner in gray. and you have to read. 216 00:26:44.060 --> 00:26:49.890 Ralf Koller: and in core. There's already a pattern. for example, in use. 217 00:26:50.140 --> 00:26:51.890 Ralf Koller: so you have enabled 218 00:26:52.090 --> 00:26:54.100 Ralf Koller: a group and then disabled. 219 00:26:54.860 --> 00:26:58.970 Ralf Koller: and that way, For example, if you go here, disable. 220 00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:01.540 Ralf Koller: It's moved to the other group. 221 00:27:01.590 --> 00:27:05.800 Ralf Koller: and that way it's easy to distinguish those States 222 00:27:06.530 --> 00:27:07.530 Ralf Koller: which is 223 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.340 Ralf Koller: in the current state on that page, not the case. 224 00:27:14.020 --> 00:27:15.530 Benji Fisher: Aaron gives a thumbs up 225 00:27:20.900 --> 00:27:21.690 Aaron McHale: so 226 00:27:22.030 --> 00:27:35.030 Aaron McHale: just to elaborate in my thumbs up. I I agree that that is a better approach. I wonder if we should put that in a follow up issue, because that feels like it's going to increase the scope of this specific issue. 227 00:27:35.120 --> 00:27:37.240 Aaron McHale: So because the the 228 00:27:37.270 --> 00:27:47.530 Aaron McHale: out of the as far as I' to the box. basically the the self, you know conflict. Let the I will say it like the collection 229 00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:52.460 Aaron McHale: class for confident yeah entities doesn't 230 00:27:52.590 --> 00:27:54.960 Aaron McHale: give you a mass amount of flexibility. So 231 00:27:54.970 --> 00:28:00.480 Aaron McHale: I would want to see that done, and what we can more holistically look at. 232 00:28:00.820 --> 00:28:02.850 Aaron McHale: Look at this, because 233 00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:08.600 Aaron McHale: you know it would be good to have a a more generic way to, to. 234 00:28:08.820 --> 00:28:11.140 Aaron McHale: to to have that approach. 235 00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:13.910 Simo Hellsten: Also, I think that 236 00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:19.920 Simo Hellsten: now, if it's a list of 5, then splitting it into 2 different lists. It kind of a 237 00:28:20.620 --> 00:28:23.890 Simo Hellsten: alright. makes it more complex. It adds 238 00:28:24.050 --> 00:28:26.500 Simo Hellsten: the space and kind of a 239 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:34.110 Simo Hellsten: it. It's. It's. If it's just a small, just a few items, then it's not so difficult to scan. 240 00:28:34.830 --> 00:28:41.050 Simo Hellsten: but so the it that that different 2 separate lists might be something that 241 00:28:41.140 --> 00:28:44.670 Simo Hellsten: it's kind of an overkill for for a list of 5 items. 242 00:28:45.800 --> 00:28:49.000 Simo Hellsten: but so that there is some things to consider. 243 00:28:52.310 --> 00:28:57.360 Aaron McHale: Maybe we could suggest adding another column for abled or disabled. 244 00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:17.190 Aaron McHale: because I I think it's actually, you know, a good point. That most sites probably Won't have many text 4 months. You. Probably I can't, you know. We'll say it's probably don't even. you know the it's maybe small sites. Don't really adjust, you know, create their own text from it to just the ones that 245 00:29:17.570 --> 00:29:18.980 Aaron McHale: come out of the box. So 246 00:29:19.260 --> 00:29:28.230 Aaron McHale: for this issue, if we were to do something I would recommend, we just say, look at. Let's add a column that indicates if something is enabled or disabled. 247 00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:33.410 Simo Hellsten: so that would kind of use the pattern from content published. 248 00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:35.100 Simo Hellsten: Call them 249 00:29:35.480 --> 00:29:36.270 Aaron McHale: right. 250 00:29:37.950 --> 00:29:41.710 Benji Fisher: Okay, but the very fact that we're having this discussion. 251 00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:48.780 Benji Fisher: I I think, validates what Aaron said at the start, which is that this should be a follow up issue. 252 00:29:49.410 --> 00:29:50.080 Ralf Koller: Yeah. 253 00:30:00.190 --> 00:30:13.150 Benji Fisher: I wonder what happens with the views if they're or no disabled. is I'm going to You can't see it, Of course. 254 00:30:14.780 --> 00:30:16.400 Benji Fisher: No, we have a 255 00:30:18.530 --> 00:30:20.950 Benji Fisher: an empty table at the bottom, just 256 00:30:21.700 --> 00:30:23.560 Benji Fisher: labels disabled. 257 00:30:24.340 --> 00:30:25.340 and 258 00:30:25.530 --> 00:30:30.650 Benji Fisher: you have table headers, and and there are no roads. So 259 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:40.790 Benji Fisher: if we follow exactly the same pattern. Then out of the box we would have this empty table at the bottom. 260 00:30:52.880 --> 00:31:03.030 Benji Fisher: So are are there any other usability issues? Shall we just give this issue a a thumbs up; but as for a follow up issue, to discuss 261 00:31:03.620 --> 00:31:10.000 Benji Fisher: whether to make it 2 separate lists, or to add a column or or some some other way of 262 00:31:10.510 --> 00:31:14.480 Benji Fisher: separating the enabled ones from the disabled ones. 263 00:31:21.470 --> 00:31:23.170 Benji Fisher: I use a thumbs up. 264 00:31:24.950 --> 00:31:29.610 Benji Fisher: I think it's a good idea, and unless there are other questions 265 00:31:29.740 --> 00:31:32.720 Benji Fisher: on the issue. Female gets a thumbs up as well. 266 00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:35.930 Benji Fisher: We've lost quit, and she had to drop, for 267 00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:40.810 Benji Fisher: the only 268 00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:42.300 Ralf Koller: the only detail 269 00:31:44.360 --> 00:31:49.470 Ralf Koller: that might be a trusted would be the thing. See, we mentioned with the 270 00:31:51.750 --> 00:31:54.000 Ralf Koller: clarifying the 271 00:31:55.580 --> 00:32:00.360 Ralf Koller: the text on disabling a text format with the 272 00:32:03.800 --> 00:32:06.040 Ralf Koller: containing fields. I'm not sure 273 00:32:06.790 --> 00:32:08.040 Ralf Koller: all you for, is it? 274 00:32:09.540 --> 00:32:11.380 Ralf Koller: That would be the only detail 275 00:32:12.450 --> 00:32:13.590 Ralf Koller: of the current 276 00:32:16.010 --> 00:32:19.430 Ralf Koller: that maybe that would make sense outside that? Yeah. 277 00:32:20.120 --> 00:32:22.020 Ralf Koller: I agree, and also 278 00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:30.740 Ralf Koller: wondered about that in regards of follow up for the 279 00:32:31.340 --> 00:32:34.250 Ralf Koller: enable disabled decision. 280 00:32:47.300 --> 00:32:49.840 Benji Fisher: Let's see, i'm looking at the issue 281 00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:55.900 Benji Fisher: and searching for the needs Usability Review Tag. 282 00:32:56.690 --> 00:33:00.170 Benji Fisher: It was added in 18 283 00:33:04.340 --> 00:33:07.870 Ralf Koller: in 100, and in the last one also 115. 284 00:33:08.530 --> 00:33:10.490 Ralf Koller: It was re-LED, 285 00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:16.920 Ralf Koller: if 15 added to the usability review the first time. 286 00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:20.770 Benji Fisher: Right? It was removed in Number 50 287 00:33:23.120 --> 00:33:25.770 Benji Fisher: added back, as he said in 1 15 288 00:33:29.090 --> 00:33:30.510 Benji Fisher: summary. 289 00:33:31.870 --> 00:33:33.590 Benji Fisher: Let's see you that 290 00:33:36.500 --> 00:33:41.190 Benji Fisher: this is making ux changes, and should have you extra view. I am adding the tag. 291 00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:49.210 Benji Fisher: and that's currently the most recent comment on the issue. Right? 292 00:33:57.660 --> 00:34:02.680 Benji Fisher: Yeah. So I I don't see any other specific usability questions. 293 00:34:06.120 --> 00:34:09.870 Benji Fisher: So let's give the issue a thumbs up. Let's 294 00:34:10.170 --> 00:34:16.679 Benji Fisher: suggest changing the message instead of content. I think. Just text field. 295 00:34:18.989 --> 00:34:20.679 Benji Fisher: any text field 296 00:34:28.150 --> 00:34:30.690 Benji Fisher: stored with that format will not be displayed 297 00:34:33.239 --> 00:34:35.270 Benji Fisher: rather than any content stored. 298 00:34:35.889 --> 00:34:37.030 Benji Fisher: and 299 00:34:37.060 --> 00:34:50.480 Benji Fisher: if for some reason they don't want to do it as part of this issue. I'm willing to say that's out of scope, and can also be a follow up issue. But it's it's. It's a simple change, so I I expect someone will be willing to do it. 300 00:34:51.380 --> 00:34:59.020 Benji Fisher: and then a follow up issue to decide how to display the disable versus some of the ones. 301 00:35:05.370 --> 00:35:06.630 Benji Fisher: because 302 00:35:09.980 --> 00:35:18.130 Benji Fisher: and and any any other suggestions for how to rewrite this text. Do you like the idea of simply replacing the word content with the word text field? 303 00:35:21.890 --> 00:35:25.850 Aaron McHale: I would question it were displayed as well. Because 304 00:35:28.230 --> 00:35:37.230 Aaron McHale: you don't think it, you know either. Then, like 8, a text feels sort of the HTML format will not be displayed. I'm wondering if you should just 305 00:35:38.030 --> 00:35:40.550 Aaron McHale: say something like we'll 306 00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:47.070 Aaron McHale: will not be shown. 307 00:35:47.930 --> 00:35:53.870 Aaron McHale: at least to me implies something to do with front end, you know, displaying the content. So 308 00:35:54.180 --> 00:35:58.780 Aaron McHale: I think Sean is a bit more just at least for me. 309 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:03.400 Aaron McHale: But this is a selection of the front end. Yeah. 310 00:36:04.630 --> 00:36:07.780 Aaron McHale: Well. this would mean it. 311 00:36:09.330 --> 00:36:13.240 Aaron McHale: Wait! The the content would still be displayed in the front end, though wouldn't it. 312 00:36:15.390 --> 00:36:19.890 Benji Fisher: No, if you look at the link that that I posted in 313 00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:23.270 Benji Fisher: it was my test page. 314 00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:34.570 Benji Fisher: Whole body is gone. It's not displayed. It's not shown. I don't. 315 00:36:34.910 --> 00:36:41.290 Aaron McHale: Yeah. The difference between those 2. Sorry I misunderstood. Then okay. 316 00:36:42.560 --> 00:36:48.580 Aaron McHale: that maybe we should make that clear. Then because there's there's basically there's 2 things there. It's like it. 317 00:36:48.600 --> 00:36:58.560 Aaron McHale: The content will be displayed right. And then there's also the the impact on existing text areas that just so happen to be using that format. 318 00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:06.320 Aaron McHale: That they'll, you know, need to need to select a different format before the contact can do be displayed. Or 319 00:37:08.510 --> 00:37:09.560 Aaron McHale: so. 320 00:37:11.600 --> 00:37:14.590 Aaron McHale: Yeah, it feels a bit a little bit ambiguous. 321 00:37:15.990 --> 00:37:17.670 Aaron McHale: I I feel like we should be. 322 00:37:18.130 --> 00:37:22.850 Aaron McHale: Did that the State, you know, it should be quite clear what the impact is. 323 00:37:27.610 --> 00:37:33.820 Aaron McHale: because if we change that from content to like text field, or you know that that to me then. 324 00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:40.370 Aaron McHale: implies it's just impacting the back like the the of you know. Content editorial experience. 325 00:37:44.090 --> 00:37:45.900 Benji Fisher: Oh, I don't read it that way. 326 00:37:50.240 --> 00:37:54.910 Simo Hellsten: I think a field content text field content would be kind of a 327 00:37:58.420 --> 00:37:59.730 Simo Hellsten: because of. 328 00:37:59.790 --> 00:38:06.300 Simo Hellsten: If If we say that the text field won't be displayed, then it kind of. I think it relies to that. 329 00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:12.600 Simo Hellsten: but it's the fe text. Field content 330 00:38:12.740 --> 00:38:15.340 Simo Hellsten: will not be displayed. Then it's quite about. 331 00:38:17.490 --> 00:38:21.370 Simo Hellsten: but I think it's to me. It's more understandable. 332 00:38:24.540 --> 00:38:28.360 Aaron McHale: I think, if you say even text like the words text field, though 333 00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:40.480 Aaron McHale: just those words imply like text, your content and the implies the content in the text field which still makes anything kind of like the the editorial interface, not the actual 334 00:38:40.640 --> 00:38:42.780 Aaron McHale: site front-end presentation 335 00:38:45.210 --> 00:38:46.740 Benji Fisher: so 336 00:38:47.460 --> 00:38:55.330 Benji Fisher: so for you, changing from content to just text. Field would suggest that this is something that only affects the back end 337 00:38:55.460 --> 00:38:58.260 Benji Fisher: when it's really something that affects the front end. 338 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:03.340 Simo Hellsten: How about, and just text stored 339 00:39:03.600 --> 00:39:10.280 Simo Hellsten: with the restricted HTML format will not be displayed. So if it's text toward the it's kind of 340 00:39:11.250 --> 00:39:13.020 Simo Hellsten: it's not the whole content. 341 00:39:13.820 --> 00:39:17.610 Simo Hellsten: and it's not something technical as field. 342 00:39:23.890 --> 00:39:24.580 Aaron McHale: but 343 00:39:25.900 --> 00:39:34.500 Aaron McHale: a text, a see? Like, okay, I see candidate or text here. It can contain more than just text. It can have media embedded in it right? 344 00:39:36.250 --> 00:39:37.290 Aaron McHale: So it's not. 345 00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:45.270 Aaron McHale: You know. I don't want to be too pedantic about it, but I, if I feel like content, is slightly more inclusive because a tags field 346 00:39:45.990 --> 00:39:53.320 Aaron McHale: can contain a lot of you know you can embed videos that you can have images in it. You can have, like all sorts of things in there. 347 00:39:58.090 --> 00:39:58.850 Ralf Koller: and 348 00:40:00.200 --> 00:40:02.260 Benji Fisher: any text or markup 349 00:40:03.830 --> 00:40:07.240 Benji Fisher: stored with root. this format will not be displayed 350 00:40:13.110 --> 00:40:14.070 Aaron McHale: cool. 351 00:40:14.630 --> 00:40:15.310 Aaron McHale: Hmm. 352 00:40:16.390 --> 00:40:17.230 Ralf Koller: Go ahead. 353 00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:21.450 Aaron McHale: I'm gonna i'm gonna doodle in the background. I'll be right back. I'm gonna 354 00:40:21.830 --> 00:40:24.460 Aaron McHale: Then I've just got it. Proposed to the text told him. 355 00:40:25.460 --> 00:40:32.090 Ralf Koller: And how about any text field stored with the restricted HTML format will not be displayed in the front end. 356 00:40:55.830 --> 00:40:58.000 Aaron McHale: May be something like that. 357 00:41:06.280 --> 00:41:10.160 Benji Fisher: I'm: sorry. Oh, there it is in the chat. Sorry. Yeah. 358 00:41:11.460 --> 00:41:18.030 Benji Fisher: Any content using the restricted HTML text format will not be displayed on the site. 359 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:41.160 Benji Fisher: I had another suggestion also in the Chat 360 00:41:43.140 --> 00:41:49.450 Benji Fisher: Zoom chat. By the way I find is really annoying in many ways. 361 00:41:49.670 --> 00:41:50.950 Ralf Koller: Yep. 362 00:41:51.300 --> 00:41:53.810 Benji Fisher: So my suggestion is, any text 363 00:41:54.300 --> 00:42:02.710 Benji Fisher: oops I I put in, or but then I didn't add, Mark up any text or mark up stored with 364 00:42:05.050 --> 00:42:07.600 Benji Fisher: that format for that 365 00:42:10.410 --> 00:42:14.680 Benji Fisher: any text or but in the word markup 366 00:42:18.680 --> 00:42:21.410 Benji Fisher: it would be restricted HTML 367 00:42:21.630 --> 00:42:22.830 Benji Fisher: next format. 368 00:42:35.600 --> 00:42:47.590 Benji Fisher: So again, the fact that we're having the discussion suggests that this might be suitable for a follow up unless we can come come to an agreement at this meeting. 369 00:42:48.430 --> 00:42:52.080 Simo Hellsten: It's certainly acceptable for the current issue 370 00:42:52.360 --> 00:43:00.860 Benji Fisher: to take the existing message and strip out the parts that are no longer relevant. 371 00:43:01.770 --> 00:43:09.140 Benji Fisher: and that's what they've done so. I I think just the the current message is acceptable for this issue. 372 00:43:09.550 --> 00:43:12.320 Benji Fisher: If we can come up with something better than 373 00:43:12.730 --> 00:43:13.820 I can suggest that. 374 00:43:37.630 --> 00:43:41.280 Benji Fisher: So I guess, looking at the various options here. 375 00:43:42.970 --> 00:43:49.140 Benji Fisher: one choice is whether to use content or text, or text, field 376 00:43:49.350 --> 00:43:51.820 Benji Fisher: or text or markup. 377 00:43:58.530 --> 00:44:10.700 Benji Fisher: Yeah, Simo. And then my suggestion saying that we should say is assigned an enabled text format rather than a new text format. 378 00:44:13.530 --> 00:44:17.660 Benji Fisher: Yeah, it could be an existing text format, so it doesn't have to be new in that sense. 379 00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:23.270 Benji Fisher: It would be new in the different in the sense that it used to be one thing, and now it's another. 380 00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:27.080 Benji Fisher: But I I agree that that enabled is an improvement. 381 00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:29.830 Benji Fisher: But but starting at the beginning of the sentence. 382 00:44:30.640 --> 00:44:34.390 Benji Fisher: what do we want? Content or text, or markup. 383 00:44:34.730 --> 00:44:35.960 Benji Fisher: or 384 00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:43.660 Benji Fisher: just text or text text field, was my original suggestion. Shall we stick with content? 385 00:44:48.770 --> 00:44:50.940 Benji Fisher: Are like sticking with content. 386 00:44:53.450 --> 00:44:56.170 Ralf Koller: Also plus one for me. I don't find the 387 00:44:57.220 --> 00:44:58.160 Ralf Koller: some flip. 388 00:44:58.830 --> 00:45:05.490 Benji Fisher: Okay. So you're not concerned about the overuse of the word content in in Drupal. Okay. 389 00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:08.080 Benji Fisher: stored. 390 00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:11.890 Benji Fisher: Aaron suggested, using 391 00:45:14.610 --> 00:45:16.740 Benji Fisher: using instead of stored with. 392 00:45:26.640 --> 00:45:28.220 Benji Fisher: I don't really care. 393 00:45:28.420 --> 00:45:30.710 Simo Hellsten: Is it actually stored with that? 394 00:45:32.050 --> 00:45:35.960 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, i'm thinking, is it actually stored 395 00:45:36.610 --> 00:45:38.240 Simo Hellsten: with the format? Or is it 396 00:45:38.260 --> 00:45:41.300 Simo Hellsten: is the guess. It's stored as 397 00:45:41.820 --> 00:45:46.310 Simo Hellsten: like text, and then the format is applied 398 00:45:47.440 --> 00:46:00.020 Benji Fisher: on the database level. The table has one column for the value, which is the text or markup or content. And another database column is the text format 399 00:46:01.570 --> 00:46:04.660 Benji Fisher: so I think, stored with is very accurate 400 00:46:08.520 --> 00:46:10.920 Benji Fisher: from users point of view. 401 00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:16.710 Benji Fisher: Do they care about that? Answer. 402 00:46:19.420 --> 00:46:22.820 Simo Hellsten: Probably not. But yeah. 403 00:46:23.290 --> 00:46:24.090 Simo Hellsten: and 404 00:46:26.260 --> 00:46:29.480 Simo Hellsten: it could also say. Save it 405 00:46:29.930 --> 00:46:32.980 Simo Hellsten: with the restrict with the format, because 406 00:46:33.660 --> 00:46:42.260 Simo Hellsten: it's not kind of it's not using it if it's disabled. But it was saved. It needs to be re-saved. 407 00:46:42.540 --> 00:46:44.070 Simo Hellsten: So yeah. 408 00:46:48.680 --> 00:46:51.150 Aaron McHale: I guess thinking about, the 409 00:46:51.180 --> 00:46:52.600 Aaron McHale: you know, if you've 410 00:46:53.100 --> 00:47:06.250 Aaron McHale: the reason I like using is because it's to me it feels like a more active description. It's like. you know. You basically what you have to do is you find it. You have to find, identify all the content 411 00:47:06.520 --> 00:47:15.620 Aaron McHale: that's going to be impacted. And you know, update the con. Update that the text form for that content. No. To me the word using 412 00:47:16.300 --> 00:47:21.120 Aaron McHale: implies that sense of like, okay, there's things actively using this format, you know. 413 00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:27.060 Aaron McHale: to be engaged with this trying to have a different work. 414 00:47:27.550 --> 00:47:40.230 Aaron McHale: So that's why I I meet. I sort of immediately jump for the word using, because it feels some. It feels like a thing that's happening right now versus like the word stored. Feels like a more passive. It's like something. Okay, I can. 415 00:47:40.310 --> 00:47:43.910 Aaron McHale: You know it's something that's being stored. I don't think about it right now. Kind of thing. 416 00:47:46.570 --> 00:47:53.690 Benji Fisher: I I actually think that the the active is is not what you want to convey. You know anything that you 417 00:47:54.090 --> 00:48:01.690 Benji Fisher: and any page that you wrote a week ago, or a month ago, or a year ago that uses that text format is included 418 00:48:04.030 --> 00:48:04.730 Aaron McHale: Right? 419 00:48:27.200 --> 00:48:28.430 Benji Fisher: So I 420 00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:33.690 Benji Fisher: I think I prefer 421 00:48:34.820 --> 00:48:36.200 Benji Fisher: saved with. 422 00:48:37.170 --> 00:48:40.570 Benji Fisher: and that's what you suggested. Isn't. It saved with 423 00:48:41.680 --> 00:48:42.830 Benji Fisher: or stored with. 424 00:48:46.270 --> 00:48:51.330 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I suppose it I said, to save saved with as one option. 425 00:48:52.060 --> 00:48:57.520 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I I I think I agree with Simo. Ralph. You You have an opinion on this one. 426 00:49:00.300 --> 00:49:03.210 Ralf Koller: Another strong one. I'm in thick 427 00:49:03.400 --> 00:49:07.860 Ralf Koller: regards okay with any suggestion so far, so it's saved. 428 00:49:08.070 --> 00:49:08.820 Benji Fisher: Okay. 429 00:49:10.550 --> 00:49:14.860 Aaron McHale: I can prefer saved with over useless. 430 00:49:16.080 --> 00:49:22.560 Aaron McHale: because I I Also, you can tie that back to your you click the save button to save the content. So 431 00:49:22.700 --> 00:49:27.000 Aaron McHale: there's a self slight link there, back to the edit form in a way. 432 00:49:34.500 --> 00:49:39.190 Benji Fisher: so let's see. I'm. Putting into the chat yet yet another draft. 433 00:49:39.620 --> 00:49:44.210 Benji Fisher: any content saved with the restricted HTML text format 434 00:49:46.040 --> 00:49:49.740 Benji Fisher: will not be displayed on the site. 435 00:49:50.030 --> 00:49:54.200 Benji Fisher: I'm. Not sure that on the site adds anything 436 00:49:56.190 --> 00:50:01.120 Benji Fisher: we might use a a simpler word like shown rather than displayed. 437 00:50:09.650 --> 00:50:12.340 Ralf Koller: Yeah, but on the sides I consider good 438 00:50:12.790 --> 00:50:17.900 Ralf Koller: and helpful. But I I get also agree with the simpler to 439 00:50:18.950 --> 00:50:21.520 Ralf Koller: well shown instead of displayed. 440 00:50:24.790 --> 00:50:28.340 Benji Fisher: and it's on that part of the sentence. 441 00:50:31.200 --> 00:50:34.890 Simo Hellsten: I don't think it needs that on the site. But it's 442 00:50:34.990 --> 00:50:36.830 Simo Hellsten: yeah, it's not a big thing 443 00:50:42.850 --> 00:50:49.430 Aaron McHale: shown is shorter than displayed. So plus one to shown. 444 00:50:50.130 --> 00:50:52.380 Aaron McHale: I don't have a strong feeling more with the other. 445 00:50:55.480 --> 00:50:58.860 Aaron McHale: Obviously, I proposed on the site. 446 00:50:59.870 --> 00:51:00.630 Aaron McHale: I'm. 447 00:51:01.050 --> 00:51:02.480 Aaron McHale: So i'm kind of 448 00:51:04.050 --> 00:51:05.710 Aaron McHale: already in that camp. 449 00:51:07.780 --> 00:51:11.390 Benji Fisher: Okay, I I think that it sounds like you and Ralph 450 00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:14.600 Benji Fisher: care more about keeping on the site than 451 00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:19.420 Benji Fisher: Simo and I care about removing it. So we'll. I guess we'll keep it. 452 00:51:22.600 --> 00:51:24.730 Ralf Koller: One slight detail 453 00:51:26.220 --> 00:51:28.510 Ralf Koller: Would it make sense because you have 454 00:51:28.690 --> 00:51:31.920 Ralf Koller: saved twice in the same sentence 455 00:51:32.500 --> 00:51:36.930 Ralf Koller: to change saved with an enable text from it to 456 00:51:37.820 --> 00:51:40.680 Ralf Koller: assigned to an enable text format. 457 00:51:42.070 --> 00:51:48.760 Benji Fisher: Yeah, actually, the previous version said assigned I. I it to saved with for consistency. 458 00:51:49.170 --> 00:51:51.770 Benji Fisher: But you think that it's too repetitive 459 00:51:57.350 --> 00:52:01.800 Ralf Koller: somehow. Yes, I'm. I just try to avoid. 460 00:52:02.940 --> 00:52:12.220 Ralf Koller: to repeat, at least in the same sentence. something twice. So maybe it would make sense in the case. 461 00:52:13.550 --> 00:52:23.290 Benji Fisher: I I always found it difficult doing user support for my mother, because she was an English professor, who 462 00:52:23.650 --> 00:52:30.220 Aaron McHale: to her it was just bad style to use the same word, to refer to the same thing 463 00:52:30.550 --> 00:52:37.110 Benji Fisher: twice, so she would talk about a window, and then she would talk about a frame. 464 00:52:37.340 --> 00:52:50.760 Benji Fisher: and then she would talk about a box, and they were all referring to the same thing. and I I take the opposite point. If you are going to refer to the same thing 3 times, you should say, use the same word 3 times to avoid confusion. 465 00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:53.170 Aaron McHale: So 466 00:52:53.760 --> 00:53:09.280 Aaron McHale: at the University we have a whole content team that exists to take the the very worthy content. Academics produce about their degree programs and rewrite it to be in a in a format that is 467 00:53:10.930 --> 00:53:13.410 Aaron McHale: appropriate for websites. So 468 00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:24.950 Aaron McHale: yes, yeah, with this. But You know we we have people who write web writing web content, for the web is very different to writing. 469 00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:26.780 Aaron McHale: You know. Clubs it for books or 470 00:53:26.920 --> 00:53:29.650 Aaron McHale: or academic papers. 471 00:53:32.440 --> 00:53:37.960 Simo Hellsten: If you don't want to just say saved with voice, we could add 2 letters. 472 00:53:37.980 --> 00:53:41.270 Simo Hellsten: and say, until it is re-saved. 473 00:53:41.910 --> 00:53:44.340 Simo Hellsten: So it's kind of same. But different. 474 00:53:47.850 --> 00:53:49.330 Benji Fisher: What do you think of that, Ralph? 475 00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:51.700 Ralf Koller: Second one? 476 00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:55.600 Ralf Koller: Yeah. 477 00:53:57.640 --> 00:53:58.280 Ralf Koller: Yeah. 478 00:54:01.890 --> 00:54:03.200 Ralf Koller: That one for me. 479 00:54:06.210 --> 00:54:15.920 Benji Fisher: Okay, I think we are done word sniffing. Let me just paste into the chat and change. The second. Saved to re-saved 480 00:54:16.060 --> 00:54:18.530 Benji Fisher: three-saved is one word or hyphenated. 481 00:54:21.930 --> 00:54:22.520 Benji Fisher: I think 482 00:54:23.150 --> 00:54:24.280 Ralf Koller: Iph united. 483 00:54:37.940 --> 00:54:39.460 Benji Fisher: Let me do a quick 484 00:54:41.910 --> 00:54:44.860 Benji Fisher: Google search or maybe it's a duck to go search 485 00:54:47.100 --> 00:54:50.280 Benji Fisher: on the word re-saved. 486 00:54:59.430 --> 00:55:03.900 Benji Fisher: Let's see. There are plenty of results. Whichictionary comes up 487 00:55:05.300 --> 00:55:06.910 Benji Fisher: without a hyphen 488 00:55:08.120 --> 00:55:13.110 Benji Fisher: simple past tense and past re-save 489 00:55:23.990 --> 00:55:31.190 Benji Fisher: to save again. and it lists the hyphenated version as an alternative form. 490 00:55:37.850 --> 00:55:45.300 Benji Fisher: so as far as dictionaries concerned, no hyphen is is the preferred form. 491 00:55:48.190 --> 00:55:49.280 Benji Fisher: Let's see 492 00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:55.840 Benji Fisher: who gave a thumbs up to the last version with the hyphen that was to me. Okay. 493 00:56:00.160 --> 00:56:02.090 Ralf Koller: probably the wrong choice. 494 00:56:04.680 --> 00:56:07.430 Benji Fisher: Simo Aaron, do you share about the hypin. 495 00:56:11.750 --> 00:56:13.440 Benji Fisher: All right, let's go with the hyphen. 496 00:56:15.490 --> 00:56:21.360 Ralf Koller: I don't have a strong feeling that's just they could Also, with all the Ivan No problem. 497 00:56:23.450 --> 00:56:26.380 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I I don't mind either way. 498 00:56:28.700 --> 00:56:29.750 Benji Fisher: Neither do I. 499 00:56:30.630 --> 00:56:42.370 Aaron McHale: Well, I really okay. The only thing it would make me mind is if we had a let's say, like a house, style, or style guide that in that recommended one way or the other. But I I don't know if we do so. 500 00:56:44.270 --> 00:56:46.910 Aaron McHale: I'm, in the absence of one I don't mind. 501 00:56:48.220 --> 00:56:49.890 Aaron McHale: although maybe we should have one. 502 00:56:58.010 --> 00:57:02.500 Benji Fisher: There is a document page on interface text. 503 00:57:04.010 --> 00:57:07.200 Benji Fisher: It does talk about this sort of thing. 504 00:57:09.460 --> 00:57:10.810 Benji Fisher: Here's the link 505 00:57:21.890 --> 00:57:22.570 Benji Fisher: won't. See me 506 00:57:23.780 --> 00:57:29.930 Benji Fisher: page Table of Contents and style, Ui elements, word choice capitalization. 507 00:57:30.160 --> 00:57:33.600 Benji Fisher: which has subsections and table text. 508 00:57:50.770 --> 00:57:55.730 Benji Fisher: The imperative sentence structure when appropriate less is more. 509 00:57:56.920 --> 00:58:00.050 Benji Fisher: avoid emotionally charged. Herbs and adjectives 510 00:58:10.930 --> 00:58:13.010 Benji Fisher: do not use the pronoun we. 511 00:58:15.710 --> 00:58:20.740 Benji Fisher: and do not use contractions. use the complete phase instead. 512 00:58:26.430 --> 00:58:30.230 Benji Fisher: I don't think it says anything about 513 00:58:33.430 --> 00:58:37.990 Benji Fisher: it uses a few hyphens, not a lot. 514 00:58:51.560 --> 00:58:53.580 Benji Fisher: Yeah. So so we do have 515 00:58:55.460 --> 00:58:58.990 Benji Fisher: for a style guide. But it doesn't seem to 516 00:58:59.060 --> 00:59:02.170 Benji Fisher: come down on whether we should use items or not. 517 00:59:12.790 --> 00:59:17.690 Benji Fisher: So we we came to a decision. Let's ask for that change. 518 00:59:19.020 --> 00:59:24.140 Benji Fisher: If for some reason no one wants to make that change. Then I think that 519 00:59:27.700 --> 00:59:30.440 Benji Fisher: I I think that could be done in a follow up issue. 520 00:59:33.470 --> 00:59:34.290 Benji Fisher: You know one 521 00:59:41.290 --> 00:59:53.510 Ralf Koller: yeah. one other detail, but it's also out of the scope for this issue. But it's something we came across already when we've discussed 522 00:59:53.520 --> 00:59:58.620 Ralf Koller: in the context of layout builder and the removal of a layout builder 523 00:59:58.910 --> 01:00:09.850 Ralf Koller: setting the H one of Are you sure you want to disable a text from it to the HTML? There's something similar for layout, though it's quite lengthy, and i'm not sure 524 01:00:13.290 --> 01:00:14.710 Ralf Koller: if it should be 525 01:00:15.980 --> 01:00:22.610 Ralf Koller: more concise and in part moved to the text body instead. 526 01:00:26.700 --> 01:00:28.250 Benji Fisher: That's sort of a 527 01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:35.030 Benji Fisher: larger question with confirmation forms. 528 01:00:35.060 --> 01:00:35.690 Ralf Koller: Yep. 529 01:00:36.520 --> 01:00:43.610 Ralf Koller: totally out of the scope for this issue. But it's just resurfaced here. So just thought I mentioned it. 530 01:00:43.830 --> 01:00:44.580 Benji Fisher: Okay. 531 01:00:50.890 --> 01:01:04.430 Benji Fisher: Yeah. Well, since you bring it up, we we have less than 10 min left. so we're certainly not going to take on another issue at this meeting. I suppose we could spend a few minutes just discussing this. 532 01:01:04.860 --> 01:01:09.560 Benji Fisher: agreed. It is out of scope where we're not going to ask for any changes on this issue. 533 01:01:12.150 --> 01:01:14.650 Benji Fisher: I guess I would suggest 534 01:01:17.020 --> 01:01:24.000 Benji Fisher: making the H one an imperative sentence disable the text format, you know, basic HTML. 535 01:01:25.660 --> 01:01:26.980 Benji Fisher: And then 536 01:01:30.740 --> 01:01:33.540 Benji Fisher: maybe, are you sure you want to do this 537 01:01:35.510 --> 01:01:39.150 Benji Fisher: is is the current standard always to make it a question. 538 01:01:40.560 --> 01:01:41.970 Aaron McHale: I think so. Yeah. 539 01:01:43.480 --> 01:01:51.270 Aaron McHale: So we want to maybe change that across the board. If we were gonna do it. I think I think it makes I. So 540 01:01:51.360 --> 01:01:56.370 Aaron McHale: this is my assumption. It comes from the days of computers displaying 541 01:01:56.380 --> 01:02:02.690 Aaron McHale: little pop up boxes with Yes, no buttons that in in the the you know the content of the box. 542 01:02:02.870 --> 01:02:08.720 Aaron McHale: and usually the the title of the window. It will have to. Are you sure? Blah blah blah 543 01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:11.000 Aaron McHale: the 544 01:02:12.220 --> 01:02:16.110 Aaron McHale: there's you know, pros and cons to adapt to that approach the pro is that 545 01:02:16.910 --> 01:02:19.110 Aaron McHale: visually 546 01:02:19.120 --> 01:02:23.760 Aaron McHale: it by nature of it being in the title of the H one. 547 01:02:23.820 --> 01:02:25.790 Aaron McHale: it's more. 548 01:02:25.820 --> 01:02:37.920 Aaron McHale: it draws your eye more than the buttons; whereas if we put it so, that more question the content. It's much smaller. The text it the button, some more, you know, dwarfing that. 549 01:02:39.910 --> 01:02:44.000 Aaron McHale: And in when you look at this, these forms in a model 550 01:02:44.060 --> 01:02:50.260 Aaron McHale: on the page. That that question again goes into the title, the model. So it's. 551 01:02:50.440 --> 01:02:51.170 Aaron McHale: and 552 01:02:51.290 --> 01:03:02.760 Aaron McHale: it it kind of works like that. Obviously the downside is. It's a it's a long title. Someone use a screen, reader. We'll have to listen to the whole question 553 01:03:03.100 --> 01:03:08.440 Aaron McHale: that you know that the whole Are you sure you want to. Is this this thing like 554 01:03:08.540 --> 01:03:14.510 Aaron McHale: you have to hear that before you get to the important part about disable this text format. 555 01:03:15.410 --> 01:03:17.140 you know. So. 556 01:03:17.150 --> 01:03:21.750 Aaron McHale: and that also means it's in the title of the Tab, the browser Window. So 557 01:03:22.030 --> 01:03:23.320 Aaron McHale: front loading 558 01:03:23.430 --> 01:03:35.120 Aaron McHale: it the problem there is, it's not front loading the most important parts of information. It's so. Yeah, there's there's probably, you know, right there. There's at Pros and cons to to 559 01:03:35.650 --> 01:03:36.860 Aaron McHale: either approach. 560 01:03:42.560 --> 01:03:46.050 Aaron McHale: But i'm certainly not a close to changing it. 561 01:03:46.650 --> 01:03:51.960 Aaron McHale: You know that from an accessibility perspective it would certainly be slightly better if we 562 01:03:52.370 --> 01:03:55.650 Aaron McHale: drop the question type format. 563 01:04:04.500 --> 01:04:05.840 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I think 564 01:04:10.410 --> 01:04:13.300 Benji Fisher: I think the correct confirmation form 565 01:04:17.590 --> 01:04:22.280 Benji Fisher: doesn't give you a lot of form elements 566 01:04:22.530 --> 01:04:25.680 Benji Fisher: like if you wanted to break it up into 567 01:04:26.010 --> 01:04:31.620 Benji Fisher: h, one disable the basic to disable the text format based basic HTML, 568 01:04:31.830 --> 01:04:38.230 Benji Fisher: and then have a paragraph. Are you sure you want to do this? I don't think the confirmation form 569 01:04:38.450 --> 01:04:41.220 Benji Fisher: gives us that that paragraph element. 570 01:04:48.360 --> 01:04:49.420 Benji Fisher: So 571 01:04:52.280 --> 01:04:59.670 Benji Fisher: so I I think we it would require changing how the confirmation form works, and and not just 572 01:04:59.910 --> 01:05:01.190 Benji Fisher: how we use it. 573 01:05:02.510 --> 01:05:06.190 Aaron McHale: Yeah. And the the actual confirmed form class. 574 01:05:06.260 --> 01:05:09.490 Aaron McHale: But say the Api for using these because it is. 575 01:05:10.010 --> 01:05:22.630 Aaron McHale: it's pretty easy to create one of these forms as a developer. It's like, but that that's the the thing, is it's like there's a method for okay, what is the question? You know it's literally structured in that question, and he and 576 01:05:22.650 --> 01:05:26.430 Aaron McHale: you know. confirm, button and cancel button. Those are the the actual 577 01:05:27.300 --> 01:05:31.550 Aaron McHale: methods that as a developer using it you would write some. 578 01:05:31.560 --> 01:05:32.770 Aaron McHale: Structurally. 579 01:05:32.890 --> 01:05:39.680 Aaron McHale: It doesn't help us that it's actually, you know, fundamentally structured around the idea of a question. Right? 580 01:05:48.970 --> 01:05:52.460 Benji Fisher: Okay, so let's let's leave it there. 581 01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:54.900 Benji Fisher: Maybe we can. 582 01:05:56.050 --> 01:06:02.000 Benji Fisher: And she knew this discussion that another meeting, or or on slack, if if we want. 583 01:06:04.340 --> 01:06:10.080 Benji Fisher: And I I wonder if there are already any issues for you're changing that. 584 01:06:10.380 --> 01:06:15.380 Benji Fisher: But, Ralph, will you add a comment to the issue we've been discussing? 585 01:06:15.410 --> 01:06:16.620 Ralf Koller: Yeah, or 586 01:06:16.710 --> 01:06:22.300 Benji Fisher: are you already overloaded since you haven't done the one from last week. The last one is 587 01:06:22.350 --> 01:06:25.090 Ralf Koller: close to be to finish. So 588 01:06:25.280 --> 01:06:32.540 Ralf Koller: I think I do both tonight and then on just for you confirmation. Re-safe now with or without the hyphen. 589 01:06:33.120 --> 01:06:35.010 Ralf Koller: What was the consensus at the end. 590 01:06:36.050 --> 01:06:37.550 Benji Fisher: I think with 591 01:06:37.630 --> 01:06:41.930 Benji Fisher: with? But if you're leaving the comment, you, you can decide. 592 01:06:41.940 --> 01:06:47.290 Ralf Koller: No, no, that that that's how much we cared about that particular question. 593 01:06:47.980 --> 01:06:55.600 Aaron McHale: I. The only thing I like is that to me it does look slightly cleaner without the without the hyphen. But 594 01:06:55.620 --> 01:06:58.160 Aaron McHale: again I don't really don't have a strong preference. 595 01:06:58.340 --> 01:07:00.170 Ralf Koller: Then let's go without the hyen. 596 01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:04.630 Simo Hellsten: Okay, yeah, it also looks a little bit more different from. Say. 597 01:07:04.890 --> 01:07:08.960 Simo Hellsten: then it would if it had the iphone. They were 598 01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:10.110 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 599 01:07:12.280 --> 01:07:13.580 Ralf Koller: Okay, okay. 600 01:07:14.460 --> 01:07:17.520 Ralf Koller: and leave it open. If 601 01:07:17.530 --> 01:07:28.580 Ralf Koller: folks want to change that string within the issue or in the follow up as well. That's also up to them. As I said that something up for the issue itself 602 01:07:30.210 --> 01:07:32.200 Ralf Koller: that was the consensus. Okay. 603 01:07:33.190 --> 01:07:37.520 Benji Fisher: and I expect it's a it's a pretty easy change. I expect they'll be happy to do it. But 604 01:07:39.540 --> 01:07:40.370 Ralf Koller: yep, yep. 605 01:07:41.700 --> 01:07:42.550 Ralf Koller: All right. 606 01:07:43.720 --> 01:07:47.410 Benji Fisher: Okay. Well, thank you all, and do it again next week. 607 01:07:48.470 --> 01:07:50.150 Ralf Koller: Thank you. Have a nice weekend. 608 01:07:52.610 --> 01:07:54.160 Benji Fisher: but thank you.