WEBVTT 87 00:10:42.830 --> 00:10:53.870 Benji Fisher: welcome. This is the drupal usability for September eighth, 2023. I'm Benjy Fischer, moderating and also present, are Ralph Kohler, who's sharing his screen, and we'll start off the discussion. 88 00:10:54.530 --> 00:10:59.350 Benji Fisher: Aaron, Miguel Amaharl and Seymo Helstone. Go ahead, Ralph. 89 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:11.140 Ralf Koller: Okay, in the beginning we'll take a look at issue number 2408549. 90 00:11:12.500 --> 00:11:23.109 Ralf Koller: I've tested it yesterday and applied the patch, the current state, and we've discussed the issue as well at the Rupert Dodger Austin, yesterday night. 91 00:11:23.700 --> 00:11:27.509 Ralf Koller: and let's quickly jump 92 00:11:27.690 --> 00:11:31.659 Ralf Koller: over. I've for the context. 93 00:11:32.500 --> 00:11:36.620 Ralf Koller: I've added the following line to the settingspe file just 94 00:11:36.700 --> 00:11:40.540 Ralf Koller: renamed the name from drupal to Troberride. 95 00:11:41.230 --> 00:11:48.710 Ralf Koller: And if I go now to system basic site, so site settings. then I get the following. 96 00:11:53.550 --> 00:11:55.129 Ralf Koller: is it like triples that way. 97 00:11:55.770 --> 00:11:58.030 Benji Fisher: Yes, we can see that he's like. 98 00:11:58.660 --> 00:12:17.700 Ralf Koller: we get the warning message. This form contains values that have been overwritten, changes to these values can still be safe, but the overwritten values will take precedence. Overrides are as follows, in the config file system dot site, the value for name has been overwritten. Drupo has been changed to true. Write 99 00:12:18.270 --> 00:12:21.500 Ralf Koller: and 100 00:12:23.050 --> 00:12:32.370 Ralf Koller: the cognitive load is rather high to process that warning message from my point of view. At first 101 00:12:34.050 --> 00:12:39.029 Ralf Koller: rather long text than something like system dot site 102 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:42.339 Ralf Koller: as a site builder or someone 103 00:12:43.900 --> 00:12:53.870 Ralf Koller: with less technical expertise. Getting such a warning message. I wonder where a site system site on that page. Then name. 104 00:13:02.130 --> 00:13:05.900 Benji Fisher: it's also okay before we that's still true. 105 00:13:06.330 --> 00:13:12.569 Benji Fisher: Before we go into the discussion of have improved this, let's make sure everyone is 106 00:13:12.820 --> 00:13:14.710 Benji Fisher: is up to date. So 107 00:13:15.160 --> 00:13:23.890 Benji Fisher: so the snippet you showed us in in your settings. Dot, PHP. Is the standard way 108 00:13:24.280 --> 00:13:31.100 Benji Fisher: or overwriting configuration. And can you go to the home page? And I think it'll show 109 00:13:31.610 --> 00:13:38.150 Ralf Koller: the override already showing in the taps title as he sees there. True, right? 110 00:13:38.780 --> 00:13:41.370 Ralf Koller: And if you go back to the site 111 00:13:43.300 --> 00:13:44.370 Ralf Koller: also there. 112 00:13:44.550 --> 00:13:45.839 Benji Fisher: right? So 113 00:13:48.010 --> 00:13:56.190 Benji Fisher: so the the admin config has standard what does it drupal, but 114 00:13:56.740 --> 00:14:08.370 Benji Fisher: site named drupal. But but that's been overridden to drover ride. All of that is standard. What's the patch from this issue 115 00:14:08.450 --> 00:14:11.740 Benji Fisher: is just adding this warning message to 116 00:14:11.780 --> 00:14:18.479 Benji Fisher: let you know that whatever you enter in the site name field is not going to have any effect. 117 00:14:19.170 --> 00:14:22.230 Benji Fisher: Any questions about that. 118 00:14:25.760 --> 00:14:34.479 Benji Fisher: II have an an assistant here who's been helping me type? 4 legged and furry. 119 00:14:34.660 --> 00:14:37.399 Benji Fisher: Any questions there's 120 00:14:39.800 --> 00:14:48.109 Benji Fisher: and and the the issue is about having some mechanism to alert people when there are overrides in effect. 121 00:14:51.840 --> 00:15:05.709 Benji Fisher: Okay, so the the current patch adds this warning message. And yeah, I think it's technically inaccurate to talk about the config file. And and not very helpful. 122 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:09.199 Benji Fisher: I think we could just strike that line. 123 00:15:12.820 --> 00:15:15.139 Ralf Koller: Yeah, that, for example, yeah. 124 00:15:15.780 --> 00:15:17.840 Benji Fisher: And then, probably 125 00:15:18.530 --> 00:15:27.609 Benji Fisher: probably we, we should start with over the following 126 00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:32.500 Benji Fisher: configuration is overwritten, and then the bulleted list. 127 00:15:32.970 --> 00:15:36.649 Benji Fisher: and then have the message at the bottom. That would be an improvement, wouldn't it? 128 00:15:39.890 --> 00:15:57.509 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. But I think in my opinion, it would be so much better if we could like show this information in the like close to the actual fields, because with the console doing this, I was like, 3 weeks ago I was, I was updating a 129 00:15:57.970 --> 00:15:59.030 Simo Hellsten: this 130 00:15:59.470 --> 00:16:07.380 Simo Hellsten: university site that had something like it had a node complex node form, with something like 20 or 30, I think. 131 00:16:07.570 --> 00:16:15.170 Simo Hellsten: overrides. And it was just one. It like the warning message, couldn't fit on the screen and then trying to figure out. 132 00:16:15.250 --> 00:16:28.939 Simo Hellsten: okay, so what is what? And not using that correct or not not using the labels also. So it's also it's kind of One thing would be for sure to use that label that's shown on the screen. 133 00:16:29.430 --> 00:16:34.439 Simo Hellsten: But also it would be very much helpful if if there is maybe 134 00:16:34.660 --> 00:16:42.480 Simo Hellsten: 1012, 20 overrides on. I think at least can happen on a node form. Then. 135 00:16:42.930 --> 00:16:49.619 Simo Hellsten: yeah, in that case, it would be like, it's very, very, very, very helpful to have those 136 00:16:49.710 --> 00:16:51.879 Simo Hellsten: close to the actual fields. 137 00:16:53.150 --> 00:16:54.490 Simo Hellsten: So it's kind of a 138 00:16:55.250 --> 00:16:59.599 Simo Hellsten: little bit different for simple forms, but with complex forms 139 00:17:00.040 --> 00:17:06.329 Simo Hellsten: it's like not at all usable. If the warning message takes up more than one full screen. 140 00:17:07.790 --> 00:17:13.949 Simo Hellsten: Wow, this. you must have a lot of overrides. Yeah, it's kind of a 141 00:17:15.750 --> 00:17:18.670 Simo Hellsten: it. I probably started as grouple 8. And now 142 00:17:18.710 --> 00:17:28.400 Simo Hellsten: we just upgrade grade it to drop out 10. And it's been kind of a very complex integrations to all kind of university systems. 143 00:17:28.470 --> 00:17:35.639 Simo Hellsten: So it's kind of a this course, database, national databases and stuff like that. So it's a quite complex. 144 00:17:36.010 --> 00:17:37.250 Simo Hellsten: But yeah. 145 00:17:37.600 --> 00:17:38.460 Benji Fisher: okay. 146 00:17:38.620 --> 00:17:43.900 Simo Hellsten: it's a actually real, a real use case I just encountered like 3 weeks ago. 147 00:17:45.090 --> 00:17:47.020 Benji Fisher: Great Ralph, go ahead. 148 00:17:48.370 --> 00:17:51.349 Ralf Koller: I just want to add to Semos 149 00:17:51.710 --> 00:18:07.199 Ralf Koller: Point. That's something that was also voiced yesterday. In Austin to have some sort of icon in line in front of the fields that are affected and are overwritten. And but they 150 00:18:07.770 --> 00:18:11.770 Ralf Koller: the suggestion. Yesterday went one step further, because 151 00:18:11.830 --> 00:18:12.920 Ralf Koller: there are 2. 152 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:26.620 Ralf Koller: There were 2 different point of views. One example was basically someone who wants to see the active be able to see and edit the active config 153 00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:34.049 Ralf Koller: rocketeer beka v. made this the example, for example, for his personal site. 154 00:18:34.300 --> 00:18:46.480 Ralf Koller: his site in production is called my site, for example. And then it's yet an override for basically yeah development. 155 00:18:46.490 --> 00:18:48.300 Ralf Koller: those that is able to see 156 00:18:48.310 --> 00:18:51.940 Ralf Koller: a different context and 157 00:18:52.250 --> 00:19:07.319 Ralf Koller: If you show, for example, the override there in in the side, then you would have to end the override, then change it, but that in the current way it would be possible. 158 00:19:07.350 --> 00:19:16.340 Ralf Koller: If you have the icon. you see what's the override. If you hover, for example, and then you're still able to change it 159 00:19:16.610 --> 00:19:24.620 Ralf Koller: in the config. But it's overwritten, basically. But then you tell if you deactivate or remove the 160 00:19:24.830 --> 00:19:27.170 Ralf Koller: basically in the settings. Php. 161 00:19:27.620 --> 00:19:28.600 Ralf Koller: file 162 00:19:28.760 --> 00:19:38.600 Ralf Koller: but override. Then you can seamlessly switch over and eclipse. Gc, I guess this is username 163 00:19:39.410 --> 00:19:40.820 Ralf Koller: at the different 164 00:19:40.840 --> 00:19:52.270 Ralf Koller: point of view. And need I guess it was end variables. He had his example, and he wants to see the what's the actual override in the form. 165 00:19:52.860 --> 00:19:56.469 Ralf Koller: And that way the suggestion yesterday was 166 00:19:56.580 --> 00:19:57.900 Ralf Koller: to reduce 167 00:19:58.230 --> 00:20:01.679 Ralf Koller: the length of the warning just to say on that form 168 00:20:01.700 --> 00:20:06.950 Ralf Koller: there are overrides and provide some sort of a switch statement. 169 00:20:07.370 --> 00:20:14.910 Ralf Koller: Then use the icons in line for the fields that are altered and overwritten 170 00:20:15.020 --> 00:20:20.709 Ralf Koller: and per default. You show the active config like currently. 171 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:21.910 Ralf Koller: and 172 00:20:22.080 --> 00:20:25.850 Ralf Koller: if you switch, then you 173 00:20:25.990 --> 00:20:30.330 Ralf Koller: are able to see directly the overwritten values. 174 00:20:31.150 --> 00:20:38.300 Ralf Koller: That was the suggestion. And as a follow up idea that is also voiced in 175 00:20:38.430 --> 00:20:39.540 Ralf Koller: the 176 00:20:39.930 --> 00:20:49.740 Ralf Koller: issue, in Number 44 and 46, to add some sort of reports, page to have a whole list of all overwrites 177 00:20:49.800 --> 00:20:55.929 Ralf Koller: of the whole site. That was, but also an additional idea that was voiced. 178 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:01.880 Simo Hellsten: Hello! I do. 179 00:21:02.270 --> 00:21:04.570 Simo Hellsten: you know. So 180 00:21:05.390 --> 00:21:07.990 Benji Fisher: your audio is very choppies. 181 00:21:09.250 --> 00:21:13.029 Simo Hellsten: Oh, maybe I'm too far away from that much better. 182 00:21:14.280 --> 00:21:16.780 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So. 183 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:26.989 Simo Hellsten: yeah, I was kind of thinking of suggesting to have a this kind of a overview page to see all the overrides, especially since we can. 184 00:21:27.310 --> 00:21:31.900 Simo Hellsten: actually, it might be useful if we can get the file name 185 00:21:32.330 --> 00:21:37.640 Simo Hellsten: which file has been or kind of, because we have can have a like a lot of different 186 00:21:37.770 --> 00:21:43.219 Simo Hellsten: settings dot. Php, so it would be useful to know which file is being read 187 00:21:43.260 --> 00:21:45.059 Simo Hellsten: for the override. But 188 00:21:45.430 --> 00:21:51.480 Simo Hellsten: yeah, but II was also thinking that it's kind of a complex to have a kind of a switching 189 00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:57.639 Simo Hellsten: which to show. But so it's can be quite confusing. 190 00:21:58.050 --> 00:22:02.060 Simo Hellsten: For a lot of people, but to have maybe 191 00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:03.300 Simo Hellsten: like adding 192 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:11.470 Simo Hellsten: before that like that before the storage like before the other description we could have 193 00:22:11.550 --> 00:22:20.750 Simo Hellsten: there, like in the description area, information about the override. So it would be a smaller, smaller text. But it could be 194 00:22:20.970 --> 00:22:25.100 Simo Hellsten: kind of if we could use that. It would be something that people 195 00:22:25.170 --> 00:22:36.110 Simo Hellsten: some people maybe look at. And I've seen that done as kind of a manual thing that on forms where you can edit descriptions. People have added. 196 00:22:36.270 --> 00:22:40.620 Simo Hellsten: notes there, that this has been overridden 197 00:22:40.770 --> 00:22:48.890 Simo Hellsten: in this and that. So it's something that would wouldn't be a totally new idea to have it have it mentioned in a description. 198 00:22:54.600 --> 00:22:56.490 Benji Fisher: Okay. 199 00:22:58.250 --> 00:23:03.370 Ralf Koller: Ralph, Ralph, could. Could I share my screen for a minute 200 00:23:05.390 --> 00:23:07.040 Ralf Koller: when I have to know my end 201 00:23:09.310 --> 00:23:11.660 Benji Fisher: because 202 00:23:13.530 --> 00:23:20.770 Ralf Koller: there are several contributed modules that address this issue. I think you see my screen now. Yes. 203 00:23:20.980 --> 00:23:28.079 Benji Fisher: so here's one config override warn, and that's the one that was mentioned in one of the comments 204 00:23:28.340 --> 00:23:34.640 Benji Fisher: on the issue. We've been looking at. And this has over 2,000 205 00:23:35.310 --> 00:23:38.539 Benji Fisher: sites reporting, using it. 206 00:23:39.020 --> 00:23:43.679 Benji Fisher: And let's just have a quick look at this screenshot 207 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:49.370 Benji Fisher: so this looks like 208 00:23:50.920 --> 00:24:02.590 Benji Fisher: pretty much the same as as the the patch we've been looking at. There are others, config, overwrite inspector. which 209 00:24:02.930 --> 00:24:07.029 Benji Fisher: has fewer modules reported using it. 210 00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:13.789 Benji Fisher: But so again, have a 211 00:24:13.820 --> 00:24:17.509 Benji Fisher: quick look at its screenshots. Is that all the same screenshot 212 00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:33.839 Benji Fisher: changes you make here will not take effect due to environment specific configuration. 213 00:24:34.780 --> 00:24:43.810 Benji Fisher: Again, that's adding some sort of message. let's just 214 00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:54.699 Benji Fisher: so. Yeah, this seems to be adding a message to the individual form elements. 215 00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:01.890 Benji Fisher: and 216 00:25:02.090 --> 00:25:10.960 Benji Fisher: has a bunch of options for how to display it. That's the screenshot we already looked at. Here's another one. 217 00:25:11.260 --> 00:25:15.989 Benji Fisher: only has 2 sites 218 00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:18.130 Benji Fisher: reporting that they're using it. 219 00:25:18.250 --> 00:25:21.420 Benji Fisher: just a minute, Aaron. 220 00:25:21.940 --> 00:25:28.649 Benji Fisher: and config. Notify a few 100 sites. 221 00:25:32.090 --> 00:25:38.659 Benji Fisher: and this seems to have some sort of 222 00:25:40.990 --> 00:25:48.640 Benji Fisher: oh, yeah, just a simple warning message at the top with without any details. So go ahead, Erin. 223 00:25:52.010 --> 00:25:57.080 Aaron McHale: Thanks. So I was kind of thinking on this in the background. I think 224 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:09.309 Aaron McHale: so. We're seeing the warning message pattern being used a lot. But I think the risk with that is if users just see that all the time on the same form, they're gonna kind of, you know, start to 225 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:18.909 Aaron McHale: they're gonna start to ignore it. Basically when it appears. And what we don't want is to get a situation where users are ignoring warning or error messages. So 226 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:20.400 Aaron McHale: I would recommend that 227 00:26:20.450 --> 00:26:25.799 Aaron McHale: the implementation core uses something more like an inf, you know, just an info message. 228 00:26:25.990 --> 00:26:51.720 Aaron McHale: Cause we really should be using supporting for something where we need. You know, you need to take an action. And in this case this is just providing information. There's it's not saying taking action. So the the kinds of these messages boots there's there's not anything meaningful for the users to do. And so if they're just staying there on the same form for a long time, then users are gonna start, you know. 229 00:26:51.800 --> 00:26:58.079 Aaron McHale: cognitively ignoring those warning, yeah, things look like warning messages is my concern. 230 00:26:58.700 --> 00:27:08.509 Aaron McHale: And I would agree with the the idea that we should be associating each one with the field itself. So like some kind of 231 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:15.679 Aaron McHale: maybe like an info message next to the you know fields as well that are over over being overridden 232 00:27:15.760 --> 00:27:24.659 Aaron McHale: and it would be nice to have some. But maybe this is a follow up, but something to end, so you can easily see what the actual value. 233 00:27:24.770 --> 00:27:33.010 Aaron McHale: That is going to be shown are, are, you would see, like on the front end, what the overridden value is versus what the 234 00:27:33.150 --> 00:27:44.540 Aaron McHale: the value saving configuration. And yeah, I would still be. I think I would still like to see what specific like. you know, maybe what the name of the configuration. 235 00:27:45.270 --> 00:27:50.759 Aaron McHale: Excuse me what the configuration object name is, or something like that, so like in this case, we can see 236 00:27:51.130 --> 00:28:00.529 Aaron McHale: system dot settings. But I also agree that, like talking about configuration file is not necessarily the most appropriate terminology there. So that's that's my thoughts. 237 00:28:05.450 --> 00:28:07.949 Benji Fisher: Okay, so 238 00:28:08.750 --> 00:28:18.369 Benji Fisher: there, there are a few questions to consider here. First of all, should this be done in court all, or should we continue to work on this 239 00:28:18.470 --> 00:28:22.920 Benji Fisher: in contrip? And, as I pointed out, there are several contrip modules that already do it. 240 00:28:23.180 --> 00:28:29.800 Benji Fisher: 2. I think Aaron has a good point. This shouldn't be a warning message. It should be an info message. 241 00:28:30.080 --> 00:28:45.319 Benji Fisher: And and if we are going to talk about the current patch, we can certainly make some recommendations for improving that and and 3. Should it be a single warning message at the top of the page? 242 00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:59.429 Benji Fisher: Or should there be indications on on each overridden field? And maybe maybe the simplest thing to do at this point is is the second option, and and discuss ways for 243 00:28:59.670 --> 00:29:05.450 Benji Fisher: of for improving the current patch. although 244 00:29:05.800 --> 00:29:13.619 Benji Fisher: I'd sort of like to spend at least a couple of minutes talking about the question of whether this should be done in core or not. 245 00:29:17.820 --> 00:29:22.519 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I think it should be in core, because it's something that kind of a 246 00:29:22.990 --> 00:29:26.640 Simo Hellsten: helps to prevent. Mistakes. 247 00:29:26.670 --> 00:29:27.880 Simo Hellsten: thought Builder. 248 00:29:28.130 --> 00:29:48.449 Simo Hellsten: Mistakes or kind of a site builder trying to do something than not being able to achieve it, using that interface that is designed for doing it. So it's something like, I think it's a very relevant if somebody ends up as a side in a size builder role in a site where they are not familiar with that, all the 249 00:29:48.580 --> 00:29:51.400 Simo Hellsten: configuration override. So I think. 250 00:29:51.810 --> 00:29:57.089 Simo Hellsten: yeah, it's something that would be useful in court. It would prevent frustration. 251 00:29:57.620 --> 00:30:00.810 Benji Fisher: Okay? And you got a thumbs up from Ralph on that, Aaron. 252 00:30:01.530 --> 00:30:08.070 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I think it's I think it makes sense at core, because we support in core. We support the ability to overwrite configuration. 253 00:30:08.170 --> 00:30:23.070 Aaron McHale: Therefore we should be telling you in core when the configuration is overridden, because right now there just simply isn't any indication. And I is. There's also situation where you might have overridden the piece of configuration in the settings file like years ago. 254 00:30:23.230 --> 00:30:36.620 Aaron McHale: and completely forgot. You've done it right, and you go to try and change something. And right now in core, you're as kind of a Sima we're saying it's like. well, if I could change that, but it doesn't have any effect on what I'm doing like you, you might get frustrated or confused as to why. 255 00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:41.220 Aaron McHale: you know, maybe you think it's a bug, you know. So yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense 256 00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:42.350 doing court. 257 00:30:42.930 --> 00:30:46.120 Benji Fisher: Okay? And in the chat Emma agrees it should be in court. 258 00:30:46.970 --> 00:30:59.840 Benji Fisher: And and Ralph agrees with your point some, sometimes 6 months is enough to forget about something. It doesn't have to be years. Okay, so so yeah, let's proceed. This this should be in core. 259 00:31:00.060 --> 00:31:02.900 Benji Fisher: And 260 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:06.500 Benji Fisher: and shall we talk about improving this message? 261 00:31:08.090 --> 00:31:12.689 Benji Fisher: I think one, as Aaron said, it should be info, not warning 262 00:31:12.950 --> 00:31:16.230 Benji Fisher: to. 263 00:31:17.010 --> 00:31:22.499 Benji Fisher: I don't think it is at all helpful to talk about the 264 00:31:23.120 --> 00:31:25.230 it's it's actually a config 265 00:31:25.660 --> 00:31:31.689 Benji Fisher: object system, dot site. It's not a config file. The file would be system dot site llamo. 266 00:31:32.120 --> 00:31:38.250 and if you're not using config management you might not have such a file. But anyway, I don't think it should be there at all. 267 00:31:38.630 --> 00:31:40.850 Benji Fisher: third. 268 00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:52.850 Benji Fisher: I think that we should list the overrides first, and then have those 2 long sentences. As Ralph says, they're they're hard to scan. We should move those to the bottom. 269 00:31:53.190 --> 00:31:54.730 Benji Fisher: And then, fourth. 270 00:31:55.020 --> 00:32:03.669 Benji Fisher: addressing the point that Simo raised earlier. there are cases where there are many, many, many overrides. 271 00:32:03.770 --> 00:32:12.020 Benji Fisher: We should put them in a details. Element collapsed initially. 272 00:32:12.150 --> 00:32:13.949 Benji Fisher: So that 273 00:32:14.650 --> 00:32:24.730 Benji Fisher: the the message takes up less room unless you expand it. here to discuss any of those 4 points. 274 00:32:28.890 --> 00:32:31.720 Benji Fisher: I'll put something in the chat to summarize. 275 00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:44.860 Aaron McHale: Sorry you're saying so. not having the message like a message on each field and keeping it all in a single 276 00:32:45.040 --> 00:32:46.880 Aaron McHale: like detail element. 277 00:32:47.410 --> 00:32:53.609 Benji Fisher: For now, I'm just discussing the the current implementation. 278 00:32:54.700 --> 00:33:02.410 Benji Fisher: and and I, yeah, I think we we we should consider an indication on each field as well. 279 00:33:02.470 --> 00:33:04.749 Benji Fisher: But but let's just start with 280 00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:09.720 Benji Fisher: the the patch we've got, and talk about improving its usability. 281 00:33:10.310 --> 00:33:18.229 Aaron McHale: Yeah, yeah, I think like, I'm not not saying we shouldn't have us. And I think, like a summary at the top of the form could be quite helpful. And I, 282 00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:23.129 Aaron McHale: if we if we also did that, I'd agree with your note of, you know detail on. 283 00:33:27.780 --> 00:33:29.619 Simo Hellsten: I think. Having that 284 00:33:30.020 --> 00:33:36.380 Simo Hellsten: system, dot site, or what whatever it was called loser kind of a 285 00:33:36.760 --> 00:33:38.260 Simo Hellsten: information there. 286 00:33:38.660 --> 00:33:41.549 Simo Hellsten: Maybe it's for some one it's helpful for 287 00:33:41.810 --> 00:33:50.879 Simo Hellsten: finding like. When you when you go to that edit edit the override. So then it might be helpful. But 288 00:33:51.050 --> 00:33:55.570 Simo Hellsten: maybe it's not the most useful thing to have there 289 00:33:55.830 --> 00:33:57.680 Simo Hellsten: all the time. 290 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:04.479 Simo Hellsten: especially if there are several overrides. Soul. Yeah. 291 00:34:09.560 --> 00:34:20.920 Simo Hellsten: But in some cases it might be useful to have it if there could be an overview page, so maybe that could include some information about more information about where the overrides. 292 00:34:24.469 --> 00:34:31.090 Benji Fisher: I'm I'm sorry I was typing into the chat, and III think I changed the the numbering. 293 00:34:31.330 --> 00:34:33.629 Benji Fisher: But the 4 points I made are there. 294 00:34:33.830 --> 00:34:37.690 And and I'm I'm sorry. Simo, you you were suggesting. 295 00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:44.329 Benji Fisher: adding an overview page as as well as the warning message on the individuals that config pages. 296 00:34:45.210 --> 00:34:57.990 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, like Overview Page could have more of those technical details. so that maybe it's a slightly different The 297 00:34:58.430 --> 00:35:04.440 Simo Hellsten: like. May might be different users looking at that overview and different users looking at the 298 00:35:05.100 --> 00:35:06.429 Simo Hellsten: like that forms. 299 00:35:06.580 --> 00:35:14.590 Simo Hellsten: So it it would give us option to. Kind of. Take a more kind of a not so necessary information 300 00:35:14.620 --> 00:35:23.020 Simo Hellsten: from that message and just use the overview page to provide a way to access them from the 301 00:35:23.170 --> 00:35:26.330 Simo Hellsten: graphic user interface. 302 00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:37.600 Benji Fisher: so how much information are you thinking of 303 00:35:38.100 --> 00:35:41.079 Benji Fisher: moving to some sort of overview page. 304 00:35:42.040 --> 00:35:45.980 Benji Fisher: Because, of course, we we also don't want to, you know. 305 00:35:46.200 --> 00:35:55.559 Benji Fisher: make people have an extra click to to find information. So there's a trade off between that and and having a message that's too long. 306 00:35:55.930 --> 00:36:02.129 Benji Fisher: So are you thinking of these these first 2 sentences moving that to a separate page. 307 00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:10.810 Simo Hellsten: and that I think that config file. a thing which is not a file. But 308 00:36:11.950 --> 00:36:17.969 Simo Hellsten: was was it object or something like that? So that's kind of so in a way to on on the form 309 00:36:18.210 --> 00:36:26.660 Simo Hellsten: to pass information about what has been overridden. And then there would be quite another step 310 00:36:26.790 --> 00:36:31.960 Simo Hellsten: to find out where it has been overridden, written. 311 00:36:32.150 --> 00:36:34.819 Simo Hellsten: So in a way separating like that. 312 00:36:36.970 --> 00:36:39.230 Benji Fisher: Okay, 313 00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:48.920 Simo Hellsten: it might be a complex. And it actually, if we're just talking about this patch. then it's kind of little bit out of scopes. It would be another issue. 314 00:36:49.060 --> 00:36:52.230 Benji Fisher: right? Perhaps a follow up. Emma, go ahead. 315 00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:59.179 Emma Horrell: I think Ralph might have been before me. But I can go because it is 316 00:36:59.210 --> 00:37:09.259 Emma Horrell: related to See most point I was like at the config file information. I know you said. It's incorrect for this instance, but I'm not clear. Is that 317 00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:14.560 Emma Horrell: the value? The bullet Point message at the bottom. Would somebody know 318 00:37:14.570 --> 00:37:23.200 Emma Horrell: where, for example, that value for name is? Or is the config file piece of information helping them to locate where 319 00:37:23.310 --> 00:37:24.940 Emma Horrell: the override is 320 00:37:25.210 --> 00:37:32.909 Benji Fisher: that? That's a good question and no, the the override is done in settings. Php. 321 00:37:33.640 --> 00:37:38.120 And telling them which config object is involved 322 00:37:38.270 --> 00:37:40.299 Benji Fisher: does not help them find that. 323 00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:42.239 Emma Horrell: Okay, okay, thank you. 324 00:37:44.200 --> 00:37:45.929 Benji Fisher: Ralph. 325 00:37:47.010 --> 00:37:54.700 Ralf Koller: One question, 2 suggestions. is it possible that on a single form 326 00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:59.029 Ralf Koller: there's more than one conflict object, meaning 327 00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:03.990 Ralf Koller: that on one page you have systems, dot site, and, for example. 328 00:38:04.610 --> 00:38:10.470 Ralf Koller: something else. Because if you, if this possible, that there are 2 different config objects 329 00:38:11.020 --> 00:38:17.240 Ralf Koller: in one form. Then removing the line in the config file system, dot site 330 00:38:17.370 --> 00:38:24.119 Ralf Koller: would be difficult cause. Then the context for the overwritten values would be missing. 331 00:38:27.140 --> 00:38:39.990 Benji Fisher: I believe it's possible. It's certainly unusual, but I believe it's possible to have more than one infake object managed by a single form. 332 00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:41.600 Ralf Koller: Okay. 333 00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:49.829 Benji Fisher: so that's just another argument for 334 00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:52.470 Benji Fisher: removing this line entirely right? 335 00:38:52.690 --> 00:39:11.319 Ralf Koller: No, the other way around. Cause if if you have 2 config objects on the page, and you remove that line, and you have just name. and the next value call it the variable X and y, and y is in a different config. Object. Then, you have a hard time finding it 336 00:39:12.090 --> 00:39:14.220 Ralf Koller: directly, finding it at least. 337 00:39:15.870 --> 00:39:20.230 Benji Fisher: Oh, and Thomas Hell has just joined us. 338 00:39:20.950 --> 00:39:26.130 Ralf Koller: And just the 2 suggestions. I like the idea of 339 00:39:26.860 --> 00:39:32.310 Ralf Koller: focusing honing the current patch. 340 00:39:32.570 --> 00:39:36.530 Ralf Koller: and I would move the inline icon 341 00:39:37.050 --> 00:39:48.800 Ralf Koller: to a separate follow-up issue, have a suggestion for that as well as the reports page the dedicated one also in a follow-up issue, and maybe to the info message. 342 00:39:48.870 --> 00:39:51.300 Ralf Koller: and a link to that status page 343 00:39:51.450 --> 00:39:54.780 Ralf Koller: reports. Page, maybe. would be awesome idea. 344 00:39:57.330 --> 00:40:10.230 Benji Fisher: Okay, for the sake of Thomas, who just joined us. We're discussing configuration overrides and there's an issue that adds this warning message. I added an override to 345 00:40:10.350 --> 00:40:18.769 Benji Fisher: settings. Php, to override this value. and this warning message is informing any of that 346 00:40:20.610 --> 00:40:25.439 Benji Fisher: and go ahead. Erin. 347 00:40:27.700 --> 00:40:33.500 Aaron McHale: I'd agree with what Ben, do you say? Really, I just don't think 348 00:40:34.190 --> 00:40:38.100 Aaron McHale: talking about the config objects relevant, because. like 349 00:40:39.260 --> 00:40:41.199 Aaron McHale: in in all forms. 350 00:40:41.420 --> 00:40:54.160 Aaron McHale: When when you interact with a form and drupal, we don't tell you what that conflict is, where it's stored. Right? You just you fill in the form. You save it, and and that's it. You you don't. You don't know that information. 351 00:40:54.350 --> 00:41:02.310 Aaron McHale: What we're talking about here is overwriting the config. and the way you overwrite that. and if you want to remove the override 352 00:41:02.720 --> 00:41:13.740 Aaron McHale: has nothing to do with what, when you want to remove it or change it, it doesn't actually have anything to do with the config object is insofar. As you go into the settings, dot Php, file, or use another module 353 00:41:13.850 --> 00:41:16.690 Aaron McHale: to change the override. So 354 00:41:16.990 --> 00:41:37.950 Aaron McHale: we could actually be misleading people by talking about the conflict object here, because they might then assume. Oh, if I go into like the configuration settings like in in under development configuration, that somehow there I can change what this overwrite is when the actual fact that would have no bearing on the override value. 355 00:41:38.290 --> 00:41:45.260 Benji Fisher: Actually, Simo said something in in the chat, and I'll I'll simply 356 00:41:45.720 --> 00:41:48.049 Benji Fisher: use this little text here 357 00:41:48.240 --> 00:41:52.530 Aaron McHale: X box to to paste in the actual override that I added 358 00:41:52.750 --> 00:41:55.910 Benji Fisher: to my settings. Php. 359 00:41:56.380 --> 00:42:10.209 Benji Fisher: and and the point is that the system dot site does appear here. So there is some use in telling me that system dot site is the relevant 360 00:42:10.590 --> 00:42:16.929 Benji Fisher: config object. It's one way to search for it in settings. Dot php. 361 00:42:16.970 --> 00:42:19.909 Benji Fisher: on the other hand, the 362 00:42:20.120 --> 00:42:31.749 Benji Fisher: it's also pretty easy to search for the override value in settings. Dot. PHP so it's it has some relevance. I still 363 00:42:31.930 --> 00:42:36.350 Benji Fisher: don't think it's needed. But but but go ahead, Aaron. 364 00:42:37.070 --> 00:42:45.299 Aaron McHale: Well, yeah, I was. Gonna say that exact thing actually like, if you're if you want to change this like you can. You can search for that 365 00:42:45.620 --> 00:42:54.970 Aaron McHale: value perfectly fine. And you know you would. You would know in theory, like you could know the name of the field, but I cause I think like if we were. 366 00:42:55.690 --> 00:43:06.269 Aaron McHale: II think if there was other situations where I think there's a lot a lot of other situations where it'd be more helpful to know what the conflict up config object is. 367 00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:13.040 Aaron McHale: Like. Simply, maybe that was an option you could turn on like a debug option or something to show on the form. 368 00:43:13.130 --> 00:43:22.730 Aaron McHale: But II since we don't do that in core. I'm I'm not inclined to suggest that this issue should be introducing it. Maybe that's the follow up issue. But yeah. 369 00:43:25.730 --> 00:43:28.739 Benji Fisher: okay, go ahead, Thomas. 370 00:43:29.710 --> 00:43:33.870 Thomas Howell: So what is the specific audience? 371 00:43:33.900 --> 00:43:35.390 For this message? 372 00:43:40.770 --> 00:43:43.790 Simo Hellsten: I'd say it's site builders who are 373 00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:54.370 Simo Hellsten: doing changes to sites that were kind of passed down to them like maybe a couple of generations. So I think it's a site builder. 374 00:43:54.500 --> 00:43:59.990 Thomas Howell: builder, or administrator. It might have been built. And now I'm the administrator maintaining it. 375 00:44:00.050 --> 00:44:07.699 Thomas Howell: And this message shows up only here on this page or on the page that's impacted, or 376 00:44:08.160 --> 00:44:11.849 Thomas Howell: where does it appear? Any configuration form 377 00:44:11.970 --> 00:44:13.030 Benji Fisher: where 378 00:44:13.160 --> 00:44:17.469 Benji Fisher: the sum of the configuration is overwritten. Okay, so 379 00:44:17.680 --> 00:44:39.560 Thomas Howell: there's the the used case. Then you're like, from just to restate. What was said is that it's a Site builder, administrator, level person with, I assume back end access because you're only gonna care about this. If you have access to the actual code base, correct? 380 00:44:40.580 --> 00:44:52.400 Benji Fisher: Not necessarily. I mean. The point is to prevent the frustration of oh, I want to change the site name. It seems to be drover ride. 381 00:44:53.180 --> 00:45:02.639 Benji Fisher: Oh, wait! It's it's already what it's what I intended it to be, and I'm gonna save this page and that should fix it. And then I 382 00:45:02.990 --> 00:45:04.050 Benji Fisher: interesting! 383 00:45:09.080 --> 00:45:14.120 Benji Fisher: Oh, I I wonder if that's what caused the problem. But anyway, 384 00:45:15.050 --> 00:45:22.510 Benji Fisher: it's to prevent the frustration of not seeing your changes take effect. 385 00:45:22.600 --> 00:45:28.830 Benji Fisher: Whether or not you have permission or or access to to change the override. 386 00:45:29.700 --> 00:45:34.070 Thomas Howell: Let me let me just read read in in in the meeting chat 387 00:45:34.210 --> 00:45:37.990 Benji Fisher: simo points out that you can 388 00:45:38.200 --> 00:45:50.759 Benji Fisher: search not just a single file, but but all your files to find system, dot site. And I would point out you could do the same thing to search for the value 389 00:45:51.240 --> 00:45:53.469 Benji Fisher: as as well as the system. That site 390 00:45:57.730 --> 00:45:59.560 Benji Fisher: any other questions, Thomas? 391 00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:06.370 Thomas Howell: No, I mean, I think that answers it. I think that 392 00:46:08.110 --> 00:46:10.269 Thomas Howell: in either instance 393 00:46:10.630 --> 00:46:16.719 Thomas Howell: this assumes a level of knowledge on the part of 394 00:46:17.010 --> 00:46:19.370 Thomas Howell: the Admin 395 00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:26.690 Thomas Howell: or site builder that may not be there. So you're giving them a message. But not 396 00:46:27.290 --> 00:46:37.619 Thomas Howell: so we're saying they could search these files, but they may not know that they should be searching files like they may be continuing to look through the web based. Ui. 397 00:46:39.050 --> 00:46:43.269 Thomas Howell: which case they wouldn't know to look for a file in the file system. 398 00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:52.470 Benji Fisher: Yeah. So maybe we should give a link to the appropriate documentation page. 399 00:46:53.770 --> 00:46:56.999 Benji Fisher: I don't know offhand what that is, but I'm sure there is. 400 00:46:57.500 --> 00:47:00.490 Thomas Howell: Yeah documentation page for config over rights 401 00:47:04.290 --> 00:47:12.239 Thomas Howell: that that would be helpful or saying again, if we wanted to search for. 402 00:47:12.290 --> 00:47:27.189 Thomas Howell: But again, any making certain that it's documented somewhere how to resolve this warning message because, I could see someone inheriting a site who is not an experience drupalist going insane 403 00:47:27.380 --> 00:47:32.670 Thomas Howell: both from the behavior and from the warning message because they wouldn't know where to go. 404 00:47:33.950 --> 00:47:36.979 Benji Fisher: Okay, Ralph, what did you want to say? 405 00:47:37.330 --> 00:47:50.529 Ralf Koller: Just added a link. Just wanted to add a plus one and say that the link to the docs in that info message was also voiced yesterday, and 406 00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:53.900 Ralf Koller: and it would be a good idea 407 00:47:54.100 --> 00:47:57.150 Ralf Koller: to have something to provide some guidance. 408 00:47:58.110 --> 00:48:00.790 Benji Fisher: Okay, not sure if it's the correct 409 00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:01.890 Ralf Koller: one, but 410 00:48:03.640 --> 00:48:06.990 Ralf Koller: if there's a better box page. But there is some 411 00:48:07.290 --> 00:48:14.159 Ralf Koller: one we found yesterday in that context. Yeah, I think this is the right right page to use. 412 00:48:16.010 --> 00:48:18.600 Benji Fisher: and Aaron. 413 00:48:19.650 --> 00:48:21.199 Aaron McHale: yeah, I think it's 414 00:48:21.470 --> 00:48:24.359 Aaron McHale: there's a slight difficulty with like 415 00:48:25.290 --> 00:48:26.279 Aaron McHale: trying to 416 00:48:26.650 --> 00:48:46.919 Aaron McHale: give. Hmm! How am I trying? What am I trying to say? Basically? You can overwrite configuration settings that. Php, but that's not the only way configuration could be overridden. For instance, there's a module that we're working with, that overrides configuration itself. Based on values that come in from. 417 00:48:47.380 --> 00:49:11.710 Aaron McHale: Say, it's the key module or something. It's like you could store like, say, the the value of like for okay? So the exact was like, we have an SA. Module that does like smtp like I said, just the smtp module, and you can store the user and password in configuration module. But we can use the key module to then overwrite those values. 418 00:49:11.830 --> 00:49:25.140 Aaron McHale: because we're pulling them from somewhere else like so it's not even in some cases it's not even like the. And then some cases like that might be a control module that's doing it. And and we would have no idea 419 00:49:25.270 --> 00:49:27.450 Aaron McHale: in court, necessarily. 420 00:49:27.610 --> 00:49:37.290 Aaron McHale: unless there's a way to tell and core like what's providing that overwrite it's really difficult to defensively say to like site builder, like, okay, you can go here to change that 421 00:49:37.310 --> 00:49:56.340 Aaron McHale: alright. So I think, like linking to documentation is probably the best, the safest thing. But we'd have to make sure it's the right documentation, because that one is api documentation and might not be suitable for at least, I think it's yet in the configuration. Api, so that might not have 422 00:49:56.350 --> 00:50:00.799 Aaron McHale: all of the contexts. I don't know haven't read it, but I'm just mindful that 423 00:50:00.940 --> 00:50:09.410 Aaron McHale: we're working an example right now where it might not be. The settings file that provides that override. So yeah, it's a tricky one, for sure. 424 00:50:13.750 --> 00:50:18.249 Benji Fisher: It does talk about providing overrides for modules on this page. 425 00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:22.280 Aaron McHale: Okay, that's good. 426 00:50:25.290 --> 00:50:27.710 Benji Fisher: Thomas. 427 00:50:28.460 --> 00:50:36.240 Thomas Howell: just a small comment. I could see what Aaron's mentioning being problematic for Site builders 428 00:50:36.340 --> 00:50:51.640 Thomas Howell: and that they may not know the difference. So I think that link to the documentation is all that we need. But, let's make certain the documentation makes sense to someone who is not necessarily a first generation 429 00:50:51.710 --> 00:51:02.709 Thomas Howell: builder, someone who built the site. So I would do some, some, for I would recommend some form of usability testing on this, because this is a pretty 430 00:51:03.210 --> 00:51:04.940 Thomas Howell: this is a pretty tricky 431 00:51:05.080 --> 00:51:16.609 Thomas Howell: thing that could impact people. And I'm positive that I've seen issues. When I worked in support where it a lot of time was spent 432 00:51:16.610 --> 00:51:37.469 Thomas Howell: tracking down. Why, a particular behavior was occurring in this way. And so I think the documentation is probably great today. But let's make certain that what Aaron's talking about like that we are addressing that so that when they get to the documentation, and they get to that section. And they see the options that they comprehend what those options mean. 433 00:51:43.780 --> 00:51:53.650 Benji Fisher: Okay, and we're getting a thumbs up from Aaron. So let's try to come up with some specific recommendations. We have 10 or 15 min left. 434 00:51:54.060 --> 00:52:00.720 Benji Fisher: and let's see, where where can I get a nice little text area to type into 435 00:52:06.010 --> 00:52:10.350 Benji Fisher: in the outer step open to Google. dark? 437 00:52:35.110 --> 00:52:37.500 Benji Fisher: so can can we get a 438 00:52:38.750 --> 00:52:45.429 Benji Fisher: go go through these quickly and see whether we. We agree on these recommendations. 439 00:52:45.520 --> 00:52:53.249 Benji Fisher: First one. It should be an info message, not a warning message. Agree. Disagree. I see a thumbs up from Ralph and Aaron. 440 00:52:54.030 --> 00:52:58.309 Benji Fisher: Simo and Thomas. Okay, everyone agrees to that. 441 00:52:58.460 --> 00:53:02.709 Benji Fisher: Do you agree to moving the long 442 00:53:03.160 --> 00:53:07.519 Benji Fisher: sentences to the bottom. So let's see. 443 00:53:10.180 --> 00:53:13.590 Benji Fisher: And what I mean by that is 444 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:22.949 Benji Fisher: taking these 2 sentences at the top 445 00:53:27.110 --> 00:53:29.420 Benji Fisher: and moving them to the bottom. 446 00:53:32.460 --> 00:53:34.729 Benji Fisher: Do you agree to that? Change 447 00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:46.589 Benji Fisher: thumbs up from Ralph and Emma and Thomas Aaron go ahead. 448 00:53:48.820 --> 00:53:59.610 Aaron McHale: I would be inclined to take the first sentence. or maybe we want to reward it slightly but essentially keep the first sentence at the top. 449 00:53:59.830 --> 00:54:04.589 Aaron McHale: because we're stating the form as overrides. Then we're explaining the overrides. 450 00:54:04.740 --> 00:54:13.209 Aaron McHale: And then finally, we could say, changes, these values can still be saved. But overall it takes it precedent. So I'd be inclined to. Yeah, do that. 451 00:54:13.310 --> 00:54:14.900 Aaron McHale: Maybe I think 452 00:54:15.540 --> 00:54:21.770 Aaron McHale: maybe work slightly better, just cause that feels more like an introduction, and then, you know, go into it. 453 00:54:22.740 --> 00:54:25.759 Benji Fisher: Fact, if we do that, then we can strike this, can't we? 454 00:54:27.330 --> 00:54:29.289 Aaron McHale: Yeah, yeah, probably 455 00:54:31.810 --> 00:54:34.029 Benji Fisher: Ralph gives a thumbs up to that. 456 00:54:36.180 --> 00:54:37.350 Benji Fisher: Okay. 457 00:54:38.170 --> 00:54:41.289 Benji Fisher: so just one long sentence at the bottom. 458 00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:45.780 Benji Fisher: Okay, I think everyone agrees for that. Great thanks. 459 00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:56.050 Benji Fisher: list overrides in a collapsed detail element. Again, Simo mentioned a case he saw a few weeks ago, where 460 00:54:56.260 --> 00:55:01.550 Benji Fisher: there were so many overrides that the message took more than a page. Go ahead, Ralph. 461 00:55:02.770 --> 00:55:08.040 Ralf Koller: It makes sense to make a constraint that they have to at least 462 00:55:08.290 --> 00:55:14.759 Ralf Koller: 2 overrides or 3, maybe to wrap it in a detailed element, otherwise just 463 00:55:15.250 --> 00:55:16.709 Ralf Koller: display it, as is. 464 00:55:26.930 --> 00:55:32.159 Benji Fisher: you know, getting getting back to what Aaron was saying about alarm, fatigue. 465 00:55:32.890 --> 00:55:40.570 Benji Fisher: or. in other words, the the tendency to ignore messages that you see all the time. 466 00:55:40.790 --> 00:55:45.069 Benji Fisher: I would like to keep it as as short as possible. 467 00:55:45.170 --> 00:55:48.859 Benji Fisher: and and probably something like this initial line 468 00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:52.070 Benji Fisher: would be, the whoops 469 00:55:52.880 --> 00:56:01.900 Benji Fisher: would be the label for the details element, and and that's all you would see. And then, when you expand it, you would see the list. 470 00:56:02.190 --> 00:56:08.860 Benji Fisher: I prefer as short as possible, even if there are only one or 2 or 3. 471 00:56:09.190 --> 00:56:13.310 Benji Fisher: I'm getting a thumbs up from Aaron, so I guess he agrees with me. 472 00:56:13.580 --> 00:56:16.589 Ralf Koller: Have I convinced you, Ralph? 473 00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:22.810 Aaron McHale: Would? Would you also put the the final sentence in the detail element. 474 00:56:24.850 --> 00:56:30.910 Benji Fisher: I don't know. What do you think? 475 00:56:34.560 --> 00:56:43.420 Aaron McHale: I think it's hard to know until we actually see it. But maybe we could leave that as a sort of like open ended. See what looks best. Kind of thing. 476 00:56:44.330 --> 00:56:46.499 Aaron McHale: I could go either way to the illness. 477 00:56:52.580 --> 00:56:55.170 Benji Fisher: Okay, yeah. Something, too. 478 00:56:55.260 --> 00:56:56.290 Benji Fisher: Consider 479 00:56:56.670 --> 00:57:06.579 Benji Fisher: And let's see in in this document I'm working with. I've already removed the 480 00:57:07.820 --> 00:57:14.159 Benji Fisher: line about the config item, and I guess that's we had some discussion about that. So 481 00:57:14.690 --> 00:57:24.070 Aaron McHale: does. Google, Google says, like a quote format, doesn't it? Maybe that would be good. The way to illustrate being in the detail element 482 00:57:27.100 --> 00:57:29.989 Aaron McHale: like, if you took that all that text. And just 483 00:57:31.110 --> 00:57:38.480 Aaron McHale: it has a quote format type. Is that right? I think so. Just just a minute. So this was actually 484 00:57:40.560 --> 00:57:42.609 Benji Fisher: here we go. 485 00:57:47.740 --> 00:57:54.160 Benji Fisher: So if I say, select all of that, and and where do I find formatting? 486 00:57:57.730 --> 00:58:04.640 Aaron McHale: Maybe it was in the normal text, dropdown cause like that was a format menu 487 00:58:05.300 --> 00:58:10.069 Aaron McHale: on the toolbar. or it says, on the 2 or worse is normal text. 488 00:58:10.420 --> 00:58:13.050 Benji Fisher: Have I close this menu? There we go. 489 00:58:14.430 --> 00:58:16.470 Aaron McHale: Maybe in there somewhere. 490 00:58:20.910 --> 00:58:22.680 I don't think so. 491 00:58:30.260 --> 00:58:30.960 Benji Fisher: Yeah. 492 00:58:32.550 --> 00:58:38.710 Benji Fisher: too hard. Okay, okay, so this line. 493 00:58:42.790 --> 00:58:55.030 Benji Fisher: we could keep it. We could put it inside the details. Element. We could remove it entirely. Opinions. Go go ahead, Thomas. 494 00:58:55.670 --> 00:59:11.499 Thomas Howell: Ii hadn't considered earlier what it looks like with a page worth of overrides. What changes to the config file system, site, line like are all of the config files. Are. Are these things nested like? 495 00:59:11.520 --> 00:59:24.090 Thomas Howell: What would it actually look like in that instance, like, if there are 3 changes to system dot site and 4 changes to another config file, does it group them? What does that appear? 496 00:59:26.790 --> 00:59:29.110 Benji Fisher: Simo, can you answer that? 497 00:59:29.570 --> 00:59:36.530 Benji Fisher: I'm not sure how it would work? And, as I said, it's very unusual to have more than one 498 00:59:36.540 --> 00:59:39.530 Benji Fisher: in fake object handled by a single form. 499 00:59:41.240 --> 00:59:45.559 Simo Hellsten: yeah. So this was a kind of a this. 500 00:59:46.110 --> 00:59:54.800 Simo Hellsten: an old form with a lot of different. like a very, very like a very long node form. 501 00:59:54.910 --> 01:00:01.090 Simo Hellsten: and thinking, Yeah, I don't actually recall it was using that 502 01:00:01.200 --> 01:00:10.339 Simo Hellsten: quantum module version that's similar to this patch. And actually, I don't think I can access it without 503 01:00:10.750 --> 01:00:15.500 Simo Hellsten: switching some VPN stuff like that. 504 01:00:16.030 --> 01:00:19.040 Benji Fisher: So the answer is, we don't know 505 01:00:19.770 --> 01:00:27.369 Aaron McHale: I'm in. I'm thinking, like 506 01:00:28.260 --> 01:00:35.189 Aaron McHale: III feel like that's like a 5% use case, maybe less cause, basically for 507 01:00:35.210 --> 01:00:40.570 Aaron McHale: any entity, it's going to be in one object, because the entity forms 508 01:00:40.900 --> 01:00:45.370 Aaron McHale: are just constructed to only rhet only 1 one object at a time. 509 01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:52.580 Aaron McHale: I believe. That may be like things like endline and see, break that paradigm. But let's not go there. 510 01:00:53.180 --> 01:00:55.970 Aaron McHale: And then a sample configuration. 511 01:00:57.780 --> 01:01:11.689 Aaron McHale: IIII think it's super unlikely like III really think it's unlikely. But I also come back to the point. This information either doesn't help or potentially send someone down the wrong track, because 512 01:01:13.020 --> 01:01:18.179 Aaron McHale: that isn't where you go to edit it. You you go to the trip module or the settings file. 513 01:01:18.950 --> 01:01:21.059 Benji Fisher: Yeah, II agree with that. 514 01:01:22.100 --> 01:01:27.350 Benji Fisher: So II vote for just removing that line, as 515 01:01:27.430 --> 01:01:28.699 Benji Fisher: point 4 says. 516 01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:34.799 Benji Fisher: getting a thumbs up from Thomas Aaron was just agreeing with that. 517 01:01:35.950 --> 01:01:39.350 Emma Horrell: Yeah, I think that makes sense. Given what you described earlier. 518 01:01:40.010 --> 01:01:47.010 Benji Fisher: Okay, so just remove it. And last point, adding link to the documentation. I think we all agree on that. 519 01:01:53.110 --> 01:01:59.179 Thomas Howell: though I would add, confirm that documentation works for this use case 520 01:02:00.370 --> 01:02:01.639 Thomas Howell: like test it. 521 01:02:10.050 --> 01:02:13.830 Aaron McHale: And is that like a in the detail out the detail kind of thing 522 01:02:16.120 --> 01:02:19.619 Aaron McHale: did we do? We settle on where where that length would go? 523 01:02:35.160 --> 01:02:44.909 Benji Fisher: All right. We are running up against a time limit. so I can 524 01:02:45.620 --> 01:02:49.420 Benji Fisher: copy this and put it into the slack 525 01:02:50.350 --> 01:02:55.000 Benji Fisher: red and do we have a volunteer to 526 01:02:55.130 --> 01:02:56.460 Benji Fisher: comment on the issue? 527 01:03:01.060 --> 01:03:02.540 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. Sorry. 528 01:03:02.700 --> 01:03:07.439 Simo Hellsten: first think about one more thing to change, because that value for name. 529 01:03:07.620 --> 01:03:13.659 Simo Hellsten: It's not using the like. In this case, it's not using the same text it's using on the field 530 01:03:13.700 --> 01:03:23.919 Simo Hellsten: as label. So it might be also extra confusing, trying to find where this value name is, because it has like, because what 531 01:03:24.250 --> 01:03:29.010 Simo Hellsten: seeing user sees is that label. 532 01:03:45.730 --> 01:03:47.990 Benji Fisher: that is, I think. 533 01:03:50.970 --> 01:03:53.310 Benji Fisher: an unarguable. 534 01:03:54.440 --> 01:03:58.979 Benji Fisher: We should use the the label same thing they see on the form. 535 01:03:59.290 --> 01:03:59.960 Simo Hellsten: Yep. 536 01:04:01.640 --> 01:04:05.800 Simo Hellsten: Also, it might be something that somebody kind of didn't 537 01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:13.120 Simo Hellsten: take into account. Also that the label can be overridden and stuff like that as well. But it's yeah. It's not our problem. 538 01:04:13.820 --> 01:04:15.810 Aaron McHale: I mean, aren't translated 539 01:04:16.640 --> 01:04:19.230 Simo Hellsten: might not even be in that language. 540 01:04:25.450 --> 01:04:29.600 Benji Fisher: Okay, so we just need a volunteer to post a comment on the issue. 541 01:04:30.850 --> 01:04:33.090 Benji Fisher: I suppose I can do it. But I'm 542 01:04:38.210 --> 01:04:40.579 Benji Fisher: I already have a bunch of to dos. 543 01:04:41.840 --> 01:04:43.460 Benji Fisher: Aaron, you're volunteering. 544 01:04:43.710 --> 01:04:48.750 Aaron McHale: Well, I'm also just something that came to mind. Is that 545 01:04:48.920 --> 01:04:52.779 Aaron McHale: the messaging 546 01:04:52.940 --> 01:04:55.699 Aaron McHale: flush site itself has been changed to 547 01:04:55.720 --> 01:05:00.390 Aaron McHale: drover. Right? Doverite is 548 01:05:00.670 --> 01:05:08.549 Aaron McHale: maybe kind of misleading in itself, because it's not that like in this context, it's not been changed. It's just that we're telling you that 549 01:05:10.500 --> 01:05:16.360 Aaron McHale: when you see it somewhere else, it's not going to be, you know, it's going to be the the overridden value. So there's 550 01:05:16.420 --> 01:05:28.669 Aaron McHale: we. We're out of time here, of course, but maybe we need to put more thought into that part of the text as well, it's yeah, I just think it could be that could also be confusing. 551 01:05:30.840 --> 01:05:47.180 Thomas Howell: Okay, Emma has to drop, and we are a little bit over. Benji. When you post this I'll I'll do. I'll I'll I just don't know what the issue is, but I'll get it from the video. So when you save the video and send that out, all of them. Post this afterwards for you. 552 01:05:48.480 --> 01:05:52.670 Benji Fisher: Okay, I can. I can put a link into the slack channel as well. 553 01:05:53.310 --> 01:05:54.150 Thomas Howell: Thank you. 554 01:05:54.720 --> 01:06:05.110 Benji Fisher: Welcome thanks for volunteering to leave comments. Great! That's it, for for this week. Do it again in text week. 555 01:06:05.660 --> 01:06:08.369 Thomas Howell: Thanks for coming. Thanks. So thanks, Benji, thanks everyone. 556 01:06:08.730 --> 01:06:11.020 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. Bye. Have a nice weekend.