WEBVTT 116 00:16:53.930 --> 00:17:02.920 Benji Fisher: welcome. This is the drupal usability meeting for November tenth, 2023. I am Benji Fisher, moderating, and also here are Ralph Kohler. 117 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:05.830 Benji Fisher: who's sharing the screen, and we'll start off the discussion. 118 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:07.580 and Aaron Mikkel. 119 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:12.729 Benji Fisher: Emma Harl, and Simo Helston. Thank you all for coming. Go ahead, Ralph. 120 00:17:14.069 --> 00:17:18.019 Ralf Koller: We are looking at issue number 121 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:20.560 Ralf Koller: oops. That's a long one. 122 00:17:21.859 --> 00:17:25.359 Benji Fisher: I think it's 2, 7, 9, 4, 4, 8, one. 123 00:17:26.650 --> 00:17:29.409 Ralf Koller: It's allow end date to be optional. 124 00:17:29.550 --> 00:17:34.720 Ralf Koller: I can go quickly through. 125 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:36.380 Ralf Koller: We apply Patch. 126 00:17:36.450 --> 00:17:40.479 Ralf Koller: and then we can have a discussion, because 127 00:17:40.840 --> 00:17:43.020 Ralf Koller: at the bottom, Lowry. 128 00:17:45.540 --> 00:17:47.110 Ralf Koller: I have to reload. That 129 00:17:47.410 --> 00:18:02.050 Ralf Koller: has left a comment. A few hours ago about the intended functionality behind. it's basically if you create a new field. 130 00:18:02.750 --> 00:18:11.419 Ralf Koller: you have the date range. And that's one detail. I would have expected it would be found underneath 131 00:18:11.470 --> 00:18:17.509 Ralf Koller: date and time as one of the available options. But it's a dedicated one. 132 00:18:19.390 --> 00:18:22.690 Ralf Koller: So got a label. Yep. 133 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:26.779 Ralf Koller: but I go into 134 00:18:27.650 --> 00:18:32.939 Ralf Koller: the content type I've already created and added the date range field there. 135 00:18:33.530 --> 00:18:39.270 Ralf Koller: Absolutely limited to one. And the option is basically 136 00:18:39.450 --> 00:18:41.729 Ralf Koller: either you are able 137 00:18:42.590 --> 00:19:02.009 Ralf Koller: to have the required field, and then the patch adds the optional end date, and it might be good. Quickly read Laurie's comment about it. I haven't looked in the merge request yet, but the checkbox shouldn't have anything to do with the required checkbox. The required checkbox controls. If the date 138 00:19:02.080 --> 00:19:15.880 Ralf Koller: time range field must contain a value. The new checkbox, added here defines what is a valid value for the data time range field, whether we expect to to always have a pair of start and end? Or 139 00:19:16.170 --> 00:19:28.580 Ralf Koller: can we accept just the start date? The new setting should impact the validation even when the field is not required. If the field is not marked as required, the end date should be still required when the user enters a start date 140 00:19:29.150 --> 00:19:35.750 Ralf Koller: and about the optional date. The other detail. 141 00:19:35.950 --> 00:19:38.300 Ralf Koller: Why C. Hops 142 00:19:38.730 --> 00:19:51.580 Ralf Koller: put it back to needs, work or review is allows and state to be optional, opposed to the default behavior where and date is required when required, field is checked, which it is a bit 143 00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:55.310 Ralf Koller: difficult to comprehend, and 144 00:19:55.730 --> 00:20:08.889 Ralf Koller: from my personal perspective, when I used it. I was under the impression. that the optional end date would depend on the required field, and that was also C hops 145 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:16.299 Ralf Koller: impression. And but it is not the case. So let's go 146 00:20:16.510 --> 00:20:20.249 Ralf Koller: into an example. 147 00:20:25.530 --> 00:20:27.120 Ralf Koller: let's create a date. 148 00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:30.820 Ralf Koller: One date. 149 00:20:32.530 --> 00:20:34.480 Ralf Koller: of 150 00:20:35.410 --> 00:20:36.660 Ralf Koller: a few 151 00:20:38.270 --> 00:20:47.760 Ralf Koller: different scenarios, and we could quickly go through, you're able to save that without anything entered that is possible. 152 00:20:49.250 --> 00:20:50.470 Ralf Koller: You're able 153 00:20:54.220 --> 00:20:56.090 Ralf Koller: to just enter the start. Date 154 00:21:00.940 --> 00:21:03.240 Ralf Koller: and date is required. You get, then. 155 00:21:03.770 --> 00:21:07.579 Ralf Koller: but the other way around is also possible. 156 00:21:07.650 --> 00:21:09.630 Ralf Koller: and then, 157 00:21:13.830 --> 00:21:21.410 Ralf Koller: you get a bit of a cryptic. This value should not be null. which is not very helpful. 158 00:21:22.010 --> 00:21:33.470 Ralf Koller: and both the start, date and end date are highlighted, which also seems odd indeed. and also under my impression, when I first got to it 159 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:39.900 Ralf Koller: thought required field is not checked. So basically, I should be able to do anything 160 00:21:41.040 --> 00:21:45.989 Ralf Koller: meaning could. It isn't intended, but you still should be able to either. 161 00:21:46.120 --> 00:21:50.960 Ralf Koller: and add a start, date or an end date 162 00:21:51.150 --> 00:21:52.070 Ralf Koller: or both. 163 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.759 Ralf Koller: All should be basically possible. But yeah. 164 00:21:56.630 --> 00:22:01.250 Ralf Koller: anyway, we could quickly set the required field. Now. 165 00:22:03.470 --> 00:22:07.890 Ralf Koller: just to reload cancel oops, go back. 166 00:22:10.850 --> 00:22:18.719 Ralf Koller: know both the start and end date have the red star for being required. and we could go quickly through. 167 00:22:28.050 --> 00:22:29.420 Ralf Koller: That's that's that. 168 00:22:30.260 --> 00:22:34.910 Ralf Koller: Now you get the HTMN. 5 for validation. 169 00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:42.880 Benji Fisher: and we get that 170 00:22:43.370 --> 00:22:46.570 Benji Fisher: validation because we've marked it as required. So 171 00:22:49.450 --> 00:22:51.130 Ralf Koller: it was before. 172 00:22:56.500 --> 00:22:57.200 Ralf Koller: oops. 173 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:00.720 Ralf Koller: And now, Oops. 174 00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:03.080 Ralf Koller: let's set the 175 00:23:04.780 --> 00:23:06.110 Ralf Koller: optional end date. 176 00:23:14.210 --> 00:23:15.510 Ralf Koller: It's also working. 177 00:23:16.540 --> 00:23:18.170 Ralf Koller: So that's basically it. 178 00:23:26.130 --> 00:23:29.290 Ralf Koller: Any questions or suggestions to test. 179 00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:38.410 Benji Fisher: So just a quick point. There's a lot to consider here in terms of usability. 180 00:23:38.620 --> 00:23:42.159 Benji Fisher: There's the usability of the Admin form 181 00:23:42.570 --> 00:23:51.710 Benji Fisher: whether to use a check box, whether use radio buttons or some other widget. What the help text should be. 182 00:23:52.310 --> 00:24:04.390 Benji Fisher: And then there's also the usability of this edit form that we're looking at now. And when validation should happen, whether it should be marked with an asterisk, and so on. 183 00:24:04.780 --> 00:24:10.840 Benji Fisher: So 2 at least 2 screens that we have to look at when we consider usability. 184 00:24:11.620 --> 00:24:21.900 Benji Fisher: And Simo asks in the chat error message, Rangers end date. Is that an English word or typo and Rangers comes from the field. Name? Yes. 185 00:24:31.990 --> 00:24:39.550 Benji Fisher: Any other questions about 186 00:24:42.130 --> 00:24:44.290 Benji Fisher: what this problem was trying to address? 187 00:24:51.230 --> 00:25:02.040 Benji Fisher: So what should we discuss the the admin form, or for setting up the field or the content editing form for entering data in the field. 188 00:25:07.080 --> 00:25:10.559 Aaron McHale: Well, we're already here. So maybe the admin form. 189 00:25:10.850 --> 00:25:11.800 Benji Fisher: okay. 190 00:25:12.380 --> 00:25:18.599 Benji Fisher: and II think Larry's point is is already implemented. This 191 00:25:20.100 --> 00:25:26.879 Benji Fisher: like, we're we're not using progressive disclosure to expose this option only when it's required. 192 00:25:27.290 --> 00:25:32.389 Benji Fisher: it. It does seem to be independent of whether 193 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:34.450 Benji Fisher: the field is required or not. 194 00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:36.410 Ralf Koller: Yeah, but 195 00:25:36.790 --> 00:25:41.090 Ralf Koller: but that is not directly apparent. Cause. As I said 196 00:25:42.170 --> 00:25:46.319 Ralf Koller: I was under the impression it would be dependent, just based on 197 00:25:46.850 --> 00:25:53.110 Ralf Koller: using the functionality and reading the description for optional end date checkbox. 198 00:25:54.650 --> 00:26:00.700 Simo Hellsten: My first impression with that label optional end date was because kind of 199 00:26:01.210 --> 00:26:07.499 Simo Hellsten: if the person focus where he's at he or she is at, then kind of 200 00:26:08.040 --> 00:26:19.910 Simo Hellsten: it feels it feels like it's adding something and unchecking it. It's it's kind of reverted back to date. Just a single date. So that's kind of it could be better labeled there. 201 00:26:20.050 --> 00:26:31.779 Simo Hellsten: So kind of optional end date. It doesn't say if it makes the end date optional, or if it kind of includes or removes the end date 202 00:26:31.860 --> 00:26:33.110 Simo Hellsten: from there. 203 00:26:33.490 --> 00:26:36.240 Simo Hellsten: This could be clearer. 204 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:47.339 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I would definitely think we could make this easier to understand if progressive disclosure was used. 205 00:26:48.020 --> 00:26:54.349 Aaron McHale: So. Ralph, just to confirm if you uncheck required the fields, that's still shown. Right? 206 00:26:54.730 --> 00:27:04.599 Aaron McHale: Yep. Cause I, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So like, when required, is it checked. We shouldn't show that because it only makes sense if it feels required. Right? 207 00:27:05.100 --> 00:27:08.259 Aaron McHale: Oh, it doesn't, and that's Larry's point. 208 00:27:09.670 --> 00:27:10.610 Aaron McHale: So 209 00:27:11.210 --> 00:27:12.600 Aaron McHale: wait. Okay. 210 00:27:13.820 --> 00:27:18.090 Benji Fisher: it shouldn't have anything to do with the required checkbox. That's what Larry said. 211 00:27:18.410 --> 00:27:19.080 Ralf Koller: Yep. 212 00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:28.390 Benji Fisher: and II think that Ralph's demo 213 00:27:28.850 --> 00:27:32.609 Benji Fisher: indicated that it doesn't have anything to do with required. 214 00:27:33.080 --> 00:27:35.740 Aaron McHale: yep. 215 00:27:36.790 --> 00:27:43.710 Benji Fisher: So so just just to throw out a couple of ideas. I don't know if these are good ideas or not, but just possibilities. 216 00:27:43.860 --> 00:27:52.950 Benji Fisher: One idea is that we could make it radio buttons instead of a checkbox. And it's it's sort of a weird 217 00:27:53.020 --> 00:28:00.139 Benji Fisher: reason for doing that. Is that it would be visually distinct from the required field checkbox, so that might 218 00:28:00.590 --> 00:28:08.169 Benji Fisher: less than the confusion that the 2 are somehow related. Another idea is that maybe this shouldn't be 219 00:28:08.360 --> 00:28:13.690 Benji Fisher: a property of the field. Maybe this should be a property of the field storage. 220 00:28:14.300 --> 00:28:26.710 Benji Fisher: and yeah, again, it. It's sort of a bad reason for doing that, but it would separate it from the required 221 00:28:26.750 --> 00:28:32.500 Benji Fisher: option. But then, more important consideration of of whether we should do that or not 222 00:28:32.580 --> 00:28:37.250 Benji Fisher: is what is the expectation when we're using this field? 223 00:28:42.450 --> 00:28:49.689 Aaron McHale: Well, II think you know the. The. Whether I feel is required or not is, is kind of independent of storage. 224 00:28:49.880 --> 00:29:05.220 Aaron McHale: And obviously we've established that this particular option isn't really required field. But the end result is that like whether, when this option is change or unchanged. It requires the user to do something that the otherwise might not be able to do. 225 00:29:05.350 --> 00:29:11.940 Aaron McHale: So II feel like there's a there's a very loose, all but somewhat existing pattern there that 226 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:16.429 Aaron McHale: that this kind of behavior I feel like shouldn't go to the field storage level. 227 00:29:16.700 --> 00:29:21.329 Aaron McHale: But II now understand what the 228 00:29:21.460 --> 00:29:35.050 Aaron McHale: what you're saying. And I do think a radio buttons might make this easier to convey, because also, then there's potential for a further evolved version that could, you know, say, Okay, the start 229 00:29:35.650 --> 00:29:47.209 Aaron McHale: date is optional. But the end date is required. Right? That could be. I don't know if you can make that with the current validation, but at least there's some radio buttons we'd allow for those additional kind of options in the future. 230 00:29:47.790 --> 00:29:50.070 Aaron McHale: They're just they were needed. 231 00:29:50.750 --> 00:29:55.210 Ralf Koller: There's a follow-up issue or plan for and follow up issue to add the 232 00:29:55.220 --> 00:29:58.000 Ralf Koller: ability to have an optional start date. 233 00:29:58.380 --> 00:30:13.200 Aaron McHale: Okay. So I definitely think radio buttons might make this easier to convey. And as Benji said, also making them kind of like this, a bit more distinct from the required chat box, and also maybe moving the checkbox to be further up closer, to like 234 00:30:13.460 --> 00:30:16.020 Aaron McHale: like. 235 00:30:16.270 --> 00:30:25.359 Aaron McHale: maybe just again to to create some different stuff. Just make it clear that this is not really whether a field is required, but, like 236 00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:28.759 Aaron McHale: maybe moving the chip bulbs to a different part of the farm might help, too. 237 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:44.959 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I think, for consistency. We'd want it underneath the help text. But we could move it above the checkbox for acquired field. But, Simo, what is it you want to say? 238 00:30:44.970 --> 00:30:56.319 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I was thinking that like in my mind, optional end date is connected to field store like a connected to the allowed number of values. So those are 239 00:30:56.510 --> 00:31:01.350 Simo Hellsten: like, connected in my brain brain to this kind of I'm 240 00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:06.839 Simo Hellsten: so I would like to see the optional end date in the same place, but for 241 00:31:07.110 --> 00:31:19.130 Simo Hellsten: purposes of that, Cms doesn't make sense, because this would be could be used different ways in different places. The field so feels it shouldn't be field storage, but they are kind of up 242 00:31:19.290 --> 00:31:20.420 Simo Hellsten: connected. 243 00:31:20.760 --> 00:31:23.550 Simo Hellsten: In my cognition. 244 00:31:23.600 --> 00:31:29.639 Simo Hellsten: But at least I was also thinking that moving it above the required field. 245 00:31:29.870 --> 00:31:33.069 Simo Hellsten: would definitely help 246 00:31:33.110 --> 00:31:34.630 Simo Hellsten: not confusing 247 00:31:34.900 --> 00:31:42.569 Simo Hellsten: that kind of that hierarchy out. What? What was this word, that kind of so that it would make or obviously not be 248 00:31:42.820 --> 00:31:45.550 Simo Hellsten: limited by the required 249 00:31:46.650 --> 00:31:48.120 Simo Hellsten: checkbooks. 250 00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:53.090 Benji Fisher: Okay, Eric, go ahead. 251 00:31:53.760 --> 00:31:56.960 Aaron McHale: So just building on this train of thought. 252 00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.919 Aaron McHale: So if we went with radio buttons. 253 00:32:01.650 --> 00:32:03.579 Aaron McHale: could that incorporate 254 00:32:03.760 --> 00:32:08.040 Aaron McHale: the functionality of the required fields checkbox? 255 00:32:09.080 --> 00:32:15.400 Aaron McHale: Because with the when you check required field, doesn't that make, then both the start and end date required. 256 00:32:16.930 --> 00:32:19.390 Aaron McHale: So then. 257 00:32:19.800 --> 00:32:24.529 Aaron McHale: if we had radio buttons, we could phrase it in a way where it's like 258 00:32:24.650 --> 00:32:25.990 Aaron McHale: one of them is. 259 00:32:26.040 --> 00:32:28.610 Aaron McHale: nothing is required. One of them is 260 00:32:29.120 --> 00:32:39.999 Aaron McHale: start dates required. and the other one is start and end. They are required. And maybe that's a way to make this really clear, and try and reconcile those. 261 00:32:40.020 --> 00:32:43.050 Aaron McHale: the distinction between the 2, those different options. 262 00:32:47.540 --> 00:32:50.569 Simo Hellsten: Oh, that's an interesting thought. Go ahead, Ralph. 263 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:56.530 Ralf Koller: But with the options you've outlined, Aaron, I'm not sure cause 264 00:32:57.120 --> 00:33:00.950 Ralf Koller: my main problem is. basically. 265 00:33:01.370 --> 00:33:10.830 Ralf Koller: if the required field is not checked, and then you still have the non not communicated constraints. Still. So basically 266 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:14.939 Ralf Koller: required field unchecked. Started, entered 267 00:33:15.030 --> 00:33:23.119 Ralf Koller: and date empty. You get an error the other way around the same, and that is not covered. If you say there are no constraints. 268 00:33:23.610 --> 00:33:30.340 Ralf Koller: and that's my main problem with the feature at the moment that it's not clear. 269 00:33:30.830 --> 00:33:41.230 Aaron McHale: So is that sorry is that maybe it would help. If you demonstrate that cause is that in my head, that's basically the equivalent of saying the start. And then data required. 270 00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:47.389 Ralf Koller: No, basically, that's what I've initially, at 1 Si just save I've 271 00:33:47.610 --> 00:33:52.120 Ralf Koller: unchecked required field. And I've unchecked optional and data. So nothing is checked. 272 00:33:52.350 --> 00:33:54.729 Ralf Koller: But still, if you go in there. 273 00:33:55.090 --> 00:33:56.290 Ralf Koller: go to edit 274 00:33:56.340 --> 00:34:00.680 Ralf Koller: If it's empty, both 275 00:34:01.450 --> 00:34:02.340 Ralf Koller: save 276 00:34:02.520 --> 00:34:04.870 Ralf Koller: it works no constraint. 277 00:34:04.950 --> 00:34:06.309 Ralf Koller: If you enter now. 278 00:34:11.870 --> 00:34:14.750 Aaron McHale: you get an error. Oh, yeah. 279 00:34:14.900 --> 00:34:16.900 Ralf Koller: And if you do that. 280 00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:23.090 Ralf Koller: you get an even more cryptic error. 281 00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:30.569 Aaron McHale: But okay, this scenario is the equivalent of saying. 282 00:34:32.310 --> 00:34:37.570 Aaron McHale: no, it doesn't sorry. No. Just broken my trade, I thought, no, damn okay. 283 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:39.760 Benji Fisher: Okay. Let's let's see, though. 284 00:34:39.810 --> 00:34:42.179 Benji Fisher: go ahead. He's been waiting for a few minutes 285 00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:50.680 Simo Hellsten: should not be. That's something that's kind of should be fixed 286 00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:52.909 Simo Hellsten: anyways. 287 00:34:53.010 --> 00:34:57.409 Simo Hellsten: it's a different issue. yeah, I'm thinking that 288 00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:04.969 Simo Hellsten: I like the idea of having radio buttons. So in this case it would make sense. But I'm a little bit worried that because 289 00:35:05.290 --> 00:35:06.100 Simo Hellsten: up 290 00:35:06.540 --> 00:35:19.840 Simo Hellsten: we are used to seeing those check boxes for required fields, it's everywhere. So it's kind of having one place where it would be radio buttons. That would be a little bit confusing or cut above. 291 00:35:20.770 --> 00:35:29.030 Simo Hellsten: at least for some people. So it's II would very much like to have it the same everywhere, so that it's easily recognizable. 292 00:35:29.100 --> 00:35:31.239 Simo Hellsten: And like, without thinking. 293 00:35:32.390 --> 00:35:44.910 Benji Fisher: yeah, we're getting a thumbs up from Ralph on that point, and I also agree. Emma asks in the chat, could the help text under required field help to clarify causers know what to expect when they select it. 294 00:35:44.930 --> 00:35:51.340 Benji Fisher: and that's tied into the same thing. The the required checkbox is present on every field form. 295 00:35:53.550 --> 00:35:55.070 Benji Fisher: whether it needs 296 00:35:55.710 --> 00:36:07.209 Benji Fisher: more explanation or not is sort of out of scope, because II think it should be consistent, and probably it's it's common enough that that it doesn't need 297 00:36:07.300 --> 00:36:11.929 Benji Fisher: additional explanation. and that's a pretty strong argument against 298 00:36:12.150 --> 00:36:14.990 Benji Fisher: against 299 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:21.440 Benji Fisher: eliminating that check box and integrating it with the options for starting and date to be optional. 300 00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:24.520 Benji Fisher: but go ahead, Aaron. 301 00:36:25.190 --> 00:36:35.050 Aaron McHale: Yeah, that's a great point. And having consistency across field types is good. I wonder if we could maybe take a look at some another field type that has 302 00:36:35.080 --> 00:37:03.609 Aaron McHale: results in multiple like form fields from if they get about. The link field is a good example, because the link field has both a URL and text components. And I think you can like it. I think it also has options to like, say, okay, text is not required kind of thing, and maybe that's another issue. But I guess we'll find out in a second. But I think that might be like, if there, if there's something that works in Link, maybe that's somewhere where we can draw some inspiration. 303 00:37:12.220 --> 00:37:15.909 Aaron McHale: Yeah, the link is using radio buttons 304 00:37:16.330 --> 00:37:19.809 Aaron McHale: and linked text is up has 3 buttons. 305 00:37:20.930 --> 00:37:21.820 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 306 00:37:23.040 --> 00:37:24.909 Aaron McHale: that might be 307 00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:36.440 Aaron McHale: yeah, maybe that's a good, a good pattern to follow. Actually, because again, thinking about consistency. If we is consistent with like, how Link behaves, then that's already a 308 00:37:37.050 --> 00:37:38.919 Aaron McHale: something we could replicate. 309 00:37:47.850 --> 00:37:50.990 Simo Hellsten: So instead of kind of something like. 310 00:37:51.370 --> 00:37:54.320 Simo Hellsten: Allow link text. But so that's kind of 311 00:37:54.780 --> 00:37:58.249 Simo Hellsten: that label would be, could be something like 312 00:37:58.310 --> 00:38:03.540 Simo Hellsten: required parts. Would that make sense? And then, yeah. 313 00:38:06.580 --> 00:38:10.509 Aaron McHale: I was thinking, like, yeah, like, so like for for end date. 314 00:38:10.530 --> 00:38:12.299 Aaron McHale: you could have like, 315 00:38:12.860 --> 00:38:18.079 Aaron McHale: maybe you could just say like end date. And then you would have the options for like optional and required 316 00:38:21.830 --> 00:38:22.560 Simo Hellsten: yep. 317 00:38:23.390 --> 00:38:33.399 Simo Hellsten: But then, again, we could use the same like internal links. All the external links, only we could use start date, only end date. Only both start and end date. 318 00:38:35.630 --> 00:38:39.320 Benji Fisher: I and I see that is that Cmi, or 319 00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:47.929 Benji Fisher: now says you're actually in. See? Hobbs, has joined us. 320 00:38:48.270 --> 00:38:50.540 sime: Yes, I'll Simon. 321 00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:58.809 sime: I don't believe that optional start date is is in the Skype of that of that work. By the way. 322 00:38:59.390 --> 00:39:02.569 Benji Fisher: I think it's a suggested follow-up issue. 323 00:39:02.950 --> 00:39:09.240 sime: Yeah, I think like, it makes it very complex. And I think they get that out of scope for the issue as it was. 324 00:39:10.020 --> 00:39:12.040 Benji Fisher: but as I probably would. 325 00:39:12.230 --> 00:39:14.910 sime: considering, though, that that might be on the pathway. 326 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:23.520 Benji Fisher: exactly as as we're discussing the structure of the admin form. We want to keep that in mind. 327 00:39:24.160 --> 00:39:31.230 And what Ralph is showing right now is the configuration form for link field. 328 00:39:31.680 --> 00:39:36.150 Benji Fisher: and we think that following the same pattern might be a good idea 329 00:39:36.860 --> 00:39:38.840 and would allow us to 330 00:39:38.990 --> 00:39:42.260 Benji Fisher: ads an additional radio button 331 00:39:42.500 --> 00:39:45.760 Benji Fisher: when that issue went in. If 332 00:39:45.950 --> 00:39:47.950 Benji Fisher: that that issue was worked on. 333 00:39:48.340 --> 00:39:50.819 Benji Fisher: I see I get a thumbs up from Simon. 334 00:39:55.420 --> 00:40:06.309 Benji Fisher: okay, so are are we settled on this, then, that that we should recommend. Following the example of the 335 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:07.969 Benji Fisher: link text field 336 00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:12.619 and turning it from a checkbox into radio buttons. 337 00:40:16.700 --> 00:40:18.919 Benji Fisher: I get a thumbs up from Simo 338 00:40:22.540 --> 00:40:24.370 Aaron McHale: W. One C. 339 00:40:24.450 --> 00:40:29.690 Aaron McHale: Any more prescriptive? Or do we just wanna leave it kind of open ended and and let the issue figure out 340 00:40:32.190 --> 00:40:37.830 Aaron McHale: cause like, for instance, we don't want the dis. We probably don't want the disabled option. I would imagine 341 00:40:39.810 --> 00:40:42.350 Simo Hellsten: I would say we should go for that 342 00:40:42.470 --> 00:40:45.400 Simo Hellsten: version. Allow link type. So that's kind of 343 00:40:45.690 --> 00:40:48.800 Simo Hellsten: more like that start end. 344 00:40:49.540 --> 00:40:52.090 Aaron McHale: Oh, okay. 345 00:40:54.510 --> 00:40:58.020 Benji Fisher: so it could be something like 346 00:40:58.940 --> 00:41:01.750 Simo Hellsten: So in in this case, without the 347 00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:09.969 Simo Hellsten: option to leave out start date, it could be like a start date. Only both start and end date. 348 00:41:10.190 --> 00:41:15.329 Simo Hellsten: And then. 349 00:41:15.680 --> 00:41:19.539 Simo Hellsten: But then it's kind of it's. 350 00:41:20.160 --> 00:41:24.119 Simo Hellsten: oh, now, I'm thinking, yeah. 351 00:41:24.770 --> 00:41:27.460 Simo Hellsten: Oh, okay, so it's 352 00:41:28.410 --> 00:41:33.750 Simo Hellsten: yeah. That would, I think, operate. So you're allowed to have 353 00:41:33.990 --> 00:41:36.399 Simo Hellsten: all the start today. No. 354 00:41:38.300 --> 00:41:48.089 Benji Fisher: yeah. For this issue. The start date is always going to be required when the date when the field is used, and the only option is whether the end date 355 00:41:48.200 --> 00:41:49.550 Benji Fisher: is required. 356 00:41:49.650 --> 00:41:54.069 Benji Fisher: So I think that the field label 357 00:41:54.080 --> 00:42:00.329 Benji Fisher: could be simply end date. And then the 2 radio buttons could be optional and required. 358 00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:07.369 Aaron McHale: Yeah. And then, like, in a follow up issue, there's there's always a follow up issue to 359 00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:14.980 Aaron McHale: expand or change that when that's being considered when the start date is in scope. So 360 00:42:15.040 --> 00:42:24.519 Simo Hellsten: let's yeah, keep it. Keep it simple and well scoped for now makes sense to me, yeah, okay, yeah. I agree. Makes sense. So. 361 00:42:29.330 --> 00:42:31.679 Benji Fisher: okay, we get a thumbs up from Ralph. 362 00:42:32.260 --> 00:42:37.530 Benji Fisher: okay, so that's the 363 00:42:37.820 --> 00:42:40.489 Admin form. And we get a thumbs up from Emma. 364 00:42:41.260 --> 00:42:43.460 Benji Fisher: I think we have some consensus there. 365 00:42:43.890 --> 00:42:49.650 Benji Fisher: do we want to think any more about whether it should be 366 00:42:50.700 --> 00:42:58.140 Benji Fisher: part of the field storage rather than the field options. And and I guess I said it before. 367 00:42:58.310 --> 00:43:05.150 Benji Fisher: The the real consideration there should be what the expectation is when you reuse the field. 368 00:43:12.510 --> 00:43:21.760 sime: I I've as a Fo. As a site builder. I've always felt that this should be something that you can toggle on and off that, and that 369 00:43:21.870 --> 00:43:25.019 sime: it feels right that that got moved to the. 370 00:43:25.560 --> 00:43:27.989 sime: to the widget, to the 371 00:43:28.050 --> 00:43:29.479 sime: to the instance. 372 00:43:29.600 --> 00:43:32.350 sime: So yeah, I mean that 373 00:43:32.820 --> 00:43:51.309 sime: I always II noticed the conversation. I think that Lara LAN maybe ingested some way back up in the thread had reflected that kind of view as well, that there was certainly a lot of relief that it was made move to the instance. So I feel like, that's kind of kind of got discussed. And that's it'd be pretty big 374 00:43:51.340 --> 00:43:54.229 sime: thing to push it back into the storage. Okay. 375 00:43:55.640 --> 00:44:03.690 Aaron McHale: yeah. And I think if we're following existing platforms, like we said, it makes sense that that would live on the instance rather than storage level. 376 00:44:04.620 --> 00:44:05.820 Simo Hellsten: And also 377 00:44:05.900 --> 00:44:13.780 Simo Hellsten: it would be then located. The radio buttons in that same place with where the link of link option. So 378 00:44:14.910 --> 00:44:15.729 Benji Fisher: good point. 379 00:44:19.870 --> 00:44:21.600 Benji Fisher: Okay, I think 380 00:44:24.250 --> 00:44:29.099 Benji Fisher: think we're done looking at the admin form. Should we also discuss? Oh, go ahead, Ralph. 381 00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:32.030 Ralf Koller: Just one question. 382 00:44:34.140 --> 00:44:45.430 Ralf Koller: when the component is changed to a radio button. Should the description be striked, or would it be still be necessary? I'm not sure. Cause 383 00:44:45.650 --> 00:44:49.339 Ralf Koller: with optional and required is sort of more clear. 384 00:44:52.170 --> 00:45:04.300 Benji Fisher: That is always the goal that you don't need the help text. And and II kind of think that that turning it into radio buttons achieves that. 385 00:45:07.540 --> 00:45:12.589 Aaron McHale: Yeah, we see the example with link that like the fields. That that the equivalent 386 00:45:12.890 --> 00:45:16.980 Aaron McHale: form element with building field is is very self-explanatory. So 387 00:45:18.130 --> 00:45:28.549 sime: yeah, you you taking the the logical path of the sentence and you're splitting it into 2 physically different things. II totally agree that that does achieve that. 388 00:45:37.490 --> 00:45:41.870 Benji Fisher: Okay, so should we consider, what happens 389 00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:44.740 Benji Fisher: on the content of it form, or 390 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:52.329 Benji Fisher: is, is that not being changed in this? II think it must must be affected by this issue. 391 00:46:04.310 --> 00:46:08.910 Aaron McHale: I think the only difference is, you wouldn't get an error like if there's no. 392 00:46:09.150 --> 00:46:13.290 Aaron McHale: And Dick. I mean, maybe we could recommend 393 00:46:15.940 --> 00:46:20.529 Aaron McHale: no cause. I guess it's not even like there's error message text to recommend. We're just. 394 00:46:27.070 --> 00:46:33.910 Ralf Koller: Still. I would definitely change the error message, for if you enter an end date and no start date. 395 00:46:35.420 --> 00:46:37.479 Ralf Koller: that is totally not clear. 396 00:46:42.120 --> 00:46:50.700 Benji Fisher: But is that in scope for the current issue? Is that any different from what happens if you try that without the patch? 397 00:46:52.650 --> 00:46:54.110 sime: So that 398 00:46:54.120 --> 00:47:03.120 sime: that's not great. What? What happened then? Yeah, yeah, my, we guys, you saying that there was already issues there. That is true. 399 00:47:03.410 --> 00:47:08.529 sime: From my experience I've avoided the date range field for these reasons. 400 00:47:09.170 --> 00:47:11.889 sime: regardless of whether the end day was optional or not. 401 00:47:15.990 --> 00:47:20.400 Aaron McHale: does seem like a scope. But it's not. It's 402 00:47:21.750 --> 00:47:22.550 Aaron McHale: yeah. 403 00:47:24.410 --> 00:47:26.750 Aaron McHale: Because if it was a follow up issue. 404 00:47:27.720 --> 00:47:28.410 sime: Yup. 405 00:47:28.890 --> 00:47:41.139 sime: I would. I think it's worthy of a follow up issue. Yeah, I think II would like giving it very clear indication that we think a follow up issue is is valid. And having that, making sure that that sort of created them. 406 00:47:41.620 --> 00:47:45.880 sime: it's kind of cold out. I guess 407 00:47:46.840 --> 00:48:14.899 Aaron McHale: the only thing that I can think of is that 408 00:48:18.710 --> 00:48:21.409 Aaron McHale: like there's a certain situation where 409 00:48:21.530 --> 00:48:30.710 Aaron McHale: and again, maybe this is our scope too. But this like, if if if you right now, if you if you enter a star, date and then 410 00:48:30.820 --> 00:48:36.570 Aaron McHale: nodding and date. whether the end be being optional. And 411 00:48:39.330 --> 00:48:40.350 Aaron McHale: so like. 412 00:48:41.680 --> 00:48:45.249 Aaron McHale: or is that? Gonna yeah, it. It's just 413 00:48:47.150 --> 00:48:55.260 Aaron McHale: I think this is, yeah, I think this is a set, a follow up issue, because what we're doing is like removing situations and where you got an error. But II think 414 00:48:55.800 --> 00:49:02.370 Aaron McHale: we need to. There needs to be some consideration to communicating ahead of time like that 415 00:49:04.430 --> 00:49:08.129 Aaron McHale: when you enter a start date like you also have to enter an end date like how 416 00:49:08.380 --> 00:49:19.029 Aaron McHale: like, maybe all like maybe using Javascript to add, in the Us. Risk or something, I'm not 100% sure. But again, probably a follow up issue to like, just consider that 417 00:49:19.250 --> 00:49:28.490 Aaron McHale: because while it's not related like, that's a problem right now, regardless of this issue, I think it's something that we we at least can highlight as as a 418 00:49:28.670 --> 00:49:30.689 Aaron McHale: as a good follow up candidate. 419 00:49:38.230 --> 00:49:40.120 Benji Fisher: Okay? 420 00:49:41.790 --> 00:49:47.009 Benji Fisher: So so maybe needs some more careful review. But if it is the case 421 00:49:47.470 --> 00:49:48.380 Benji Fisher: that 422 00:49:49.690 --> 00:49:53.140 Benji Fisher: we're we're showing few strictly fewer errors. 423 00:49:53.940 --> 00:49:58.540 Benji Fisher: With this change, then, then, it's not part of the the current issue, but there 424 00:49:58.900 --> 00:50:01.130 Benji Fisher: clearly is some room for improvement. 425 00:50:01.190 --> 00:50:04.159 Benji Fisher: in the Arizona's 426 00:50:04.860 --> 00:50:06.009 Benji Fisher: on this form. 427 00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:07.210 Aaron McHale: Right? 428 00:50:10.540 --> 00:50:18.729 sime: It also, you know, unblocking. This is being a more usable field as as has benefits that then gets people using it. And 429 00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:24.879 sime: I think one of the reasons why, sis, to the site, if it's stagnant, is people don't use it. 430 00:50:25.550 --> 00:50:34.780 Benji Fisher: yeah, II just tested on on a site without the patch applied, and if I try to fill in the end date 431 00:50:34.900 --> 00:50:46.250 Benji Fisher: only. and I get the same unhelpful error message, this value should not be null, and both fields are highlighted. So I think that's same behavior that we see with the patch. 432 00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:56.239 Benji Fisher: So I see a thumbs up from Ralph. So definitely should be fixed, but is not in scope for the current issue. Right? 433 00:50:56.900 --> 00:50:57.600 Ralf Koller: Yep. 434 00:50:57.910 --> 00:50:58.730 Benji Fisher: okay. 435 00:51:01.560 --> 00:51:03.429 Benji Fisher: And a thumbs up from Aaron. 436 00:51:04.470 --> 00:51:06.370 Benji Fisher: Anything more to say on this issue. 437 00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:14.380 Benji Fisher: We've got a heart from Simon. Thank you. 438 00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:21.249 Benji Fisher: okay. And who wants to post a comment on the issue? 439 00:51:22.350 --> 00:51:27.360 Benji Fisher: sign? Would you like to 440 00:51:27.740 --> 00:51:29.929 Benji Fisher: report the results of this. 441 00:51:30.380 --> 00:51:41.670 sime: I'm happy to report the results, noting that it's it's late at night, he, so I might need someone to correct me off feelings and gaps. I might draft it into the Channel tomorrow morning. If that's right, that's fine. 442 00:51:41.960 --> 00:51:55.779 sime: Okay, and I'll I'll give you a little boilerplate music. Yeah, that would be helpful. That'd be my first doing anything like this. So yeah, but I'll I'll I'll come back into the slide channel 443 00:51:55.920 --> 00:51:56.680 sime: tomorrow. 444 00:51:57.940 --> 00:51:58.700 Benji Fisher: Great? 445 00:52:00.170 --> 00:52:06.190 Benji Fisher: okay. We have almost 15 min left. 446 00:52:07.190 --> 00:52:12.789 Benji Fisher: Is there some other issue that we think we can discussing that amount of time? 447 00:52:18.690 --> 00:52:24.130 Benji Fisher: Simon also added, make description field labels consistent 448 00:52:24.750 --> 00:52:28.500 Benji Fisher: on the issue. I think that's something that we've looked at. Last week 449 00:52:28.600 --> 00:52:29.860 Ralf Koller: we reviewed it. 450 00:52:30.850 --> 00:52:43.160 sime: yeah, I if it was I just wanted, did want to ask a question. Something that I was wondering about was, what do we have? A 451 00:52:43.170 --> 00:52:48.430 sime: is there a formal or a way or a practice of determining reading level of 452 00:52:48.520 --> 00:52:53.220 sime: text day? Is there a service that we use as a standard or 453 00:52:53.510 --> 00:52:59.969 Benji Fisher: just for the sake of the recording. 454 00:53:00.670 --> 00:53:12.959 Benji Fisher: let's say this is issue 3, 3, 6, 5, 2, 2, 2 make field description, field tables. I'm sorry. Make description. Field tables consistent. Ralph has brought it up. 455 00:53:14.630 --> 00:53:23.760 Benji Fisher: maybe. Is there some screenshot on on the issue that we can use to 456 00:53:24.350 --> 00:53:25.900 Benji Fisher: give context? 457 00:53:27.900 --> 00:53:38.639 Benji Fisher: I guess not. But if you go to was basically 458 00:53:38.890 --> 00:53:40.220 Ralf Koller: for example. 459 00:53:43.060 --> 00:53:47.770 Benji Fisher: admin structure, anything, add place 460 00:53:49.370 --> 00:53:52.840 Benji Fisher: for content type. We have the description field 461 00:53:53.880 --> 00:54:01.729 Benji Fisher: when adding a new menu instead of calling it description. We have something called administrative summary. 462 00:54:01.990 --> 00:54:03.900 Benji Fisher: and the issue is about making 463 00:54:04.910 --> 00:54:06.850 Benji Fisher: as consistent. 464 00:54:08.410 --> 00:54:19.629 Benji Fisher: okay? And II know most of us have already looked at this recently. But am I you? You're do you need any more context on this? 465 00:54:22.740 --> 00:54:30.780 Emma Horrell: I think that's, I think what you've said is enough for now. Okay, yeah. So we get into the event. I might have more questions. 466 00:54:31.200 --> 00:54:33.139 Benji Fisher: Assign your your question again. 467 00:54:35.030 --> 00:54:40.169 No, I was just taking the opportunity to to change the topic. I'll stay 468 00:54:42.260 --> 00:54:47.170 sime: if that was spice. At the end of the meeting I wanted to ask a question not related to this. 469 00:54:47.780 --> 00:54:54.919 Benji Fisher: I'm sorry. So your your your question was, do do we have guidelines for interface? Text? 470 00:54:55.370 --> 00:55:01.379 sime: Yeah. Yes. Is there a standard way of testing A a to piece of text. 471 00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:08.210 Benji Fisher: I don't know if there's a standard way of testing, but we we do have some guidelines. 472 00:55:09.120 --> 00:55:16.600 Aaron McHale: yeah, there's the interface type standards. 473 00:55:16.720 --> 00:55:19.890 Aaron McHale: maybe need updating. I 474 00:55:20.910 --> 00:55:23.540 Aaron McHale: thought about for about a year, I think. 475 00:55:25.060 --> 00:55:29.419 Aaron McHale: But I don't think we have like a 476 00:55:29.580 --> 00:55:31.890 Aaron McHale: specific tool like you asked like 477 00:55:32.930 --> 00:55:37.850 Aaron McHale: one that we recommend. But I know with the prevalence of AI 478 00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:41.599 Aaron McHale: generative few language models. Maybe 479 00:55:42.700 --> 00:55:47.880 Aaron McHale: I don't know. Maybe that's something that there's some some something that could help that. 480 00:55:48.970 --> 00:55:55.980 Benji Fisher: So II pasted Link into the Zoom chat, and Ralph has opened it. So that's our guide on user interface standards. 481 00:55:56.740 --> 00:55:57.590 sime: Thanks. 482 00:56:00.200 --> 00:56:01.330 Ralf Koller: Isn't. Then 483 00:56:01.480 --> 00:56:06.380 Ralf Koller: another page. a single page as well somewhere. 484 00:56:07.230 --> 00:56:15.340 Ralf Koller: Maybe you're thinking of the child page on interface text. That might be. Yeah, you did scroll past it. 485 00:56:15.980 --> 00:56:17.490 Aaron McHale: Yeah, it's at the bottom. 486 00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:20.220 Aaron McHale: There. 487 00:56:22.500 --> 00:56:24.999 Ralf Koller: yeah. Third one. Yep. 488 00:56:42.710 --> 00:56:52.650 sime: yeah. Just just as a comment like, II noticed. Like, if I went to a just googled reading level website. And I put the text from the issue I was looking at 489 00:56:52.720 --> 00:57:03.459 sime: into it. It highlighted many, many issues with that with that piece of text, and you know, syllables and yeah, having syllables in the sentence, and so forth. 490 00:57:03.760 --> 00:57:06.390 sime: in it, and I wondered if there was a 491 00:57:07.170 --> 00:57:24.989 sime: if you if you if you post something like that, is it just deemed to be kind of to people kind of take to it. If you should have suggested because, you know, you could rewrite the sentence and clear it up and make it simpler and and get an I plus on base same website in terms of readability level and so forth. 492 00:57:27.740 --> 00:57:32.289 Simo Hellsten: I think that would be useful to have that kind of 493 00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:36.610 Simo Hellsten: guidelines for some kind of guides and instructions on how to do it. 494 00:57:36.730 --> 00:57:38.789 Simo Hellsten: how to 495 00:57:39.240 --> 00:57:49.349 sime: yeah and I, usually it's content. Editors I'm working with, who do all that sort of stuff. I'm not used to doing it myself. 496 00:57:51.210 --> 00:58:00.230 Benji Fisher: Yeah. So II think the the goal is is understood. But we we don't have any specific standards of readability 497 00:58:00.380 --> 00:58:04.349 Benji Fisher: or tools for checking it that that I've seen used 498 00:58:04.640 --> 00:58:07.000 sime: before. Thank you. 499 00:58:07.060 --> 00:58:10.220 Benji Fisher: So yeah, that's it's probably 500 00:58:10.830 --> 00:58:14.039 Benji Fisher: good to have have a tool like that that we trust. 501 00:58:15.560 --> 00:58:25.939 Aaron McHale: I think that that's always the. That last thing that we trust is always going to be the hard part is like picking it till day that we can 502 00:58:26.100 --> 00:58:31.129 Aaron McHale: confidently say it's gonna give us reliable results. 503 00:58:31.190 --> 00:58:48.219 Aaron McHale: and it's gonna make recommendations are actually helpful. Because, you know, we when we review things. And it's like one of the benefits of this meeting is we can review interface types here, and we can make a good recommendation usually based on our best judgment. And quite often we'll say, Okay, you know that 504 00:58:48.230 --> 00:59:07.529 Aaron McHale: we'll use the principle of less is more so if you can use less words to convey the same thing. And that's essentially what we did on previous. Actually, we took the description text and said. Well, not only is there a short way to this. But actually, is there a better interaction pattern? That means we don't need it to begin with. So 505 00:59:07.730 --> 00:59:11.320 Aaron McHale: I think it's a bit more so. There's a bit more nuance than simply like. 506 00:59:11.530 --> 00:59:19.530 Aaron McHale: what is the reading? Each, but certainly like as as a sort of first check as a as a sense check, you know, like a 507 00:59:19.650 --> 00:59:39.150 Aaron McHale: initial first pass. Certainly like. If if there is a tool that we we can trust. Recommend, then that may be helpful. But I think I don't think it's a substitute. Necessarily. We start yet. For what we do at these meetings, I think. 508 00:59:39.790 --> 00:59:46.479 sime: okay, thank you. Yeah. That's a good way to phrase it. I mean it just going onto an issue instead of saying, Hi, just as a really quick 509 00:59:46.660 --> 01:00:00.950 sime: idea the sentence, if it's written like this. you know, and just get people into the headspace of it. II realize that a lot of people like we've got people who don't have English as their first language and stuff like that. They probably just relieve to have someone else come along, and 510 01:00:01.390 --> 01:00:03.969 sime: you know, fine tune the the language a little bit. 511 01:00:04.980 --> 01:00:06.359 sime: I will tell you about the end. 512 01:00:06.730 --> 01:00:15.079 Benji Fisher: and and I think it's helpful that on this meeting. We currently have 2 people who's first language is not English. Go ahead, Ralph. 513 01:00:16.030 --> 01:00:17.810 sime: I wonder? 514 01:00:17.980 --> 01:00:23.440 Ralf Koller: One idea, something that was also suggested in a context of accessibility. But 515 01:00:23.810 --> 01:00:29.930 Ralf Koller: in the context of readability and micro copy, would it make sense? 516 01:00:30.020 --> 01:00:37.300 Ralf Koller: Or I'm not sure if it's possible. But in the context of drupalize me. I've read a blog post. 517 01:00:37.460 --> 01:00:42.359 Ralf Koller: I guess it was Joel Schindallah. That they have some sort of 518 01:00:42.370 --> 01:00:43.830 Ralf Koller: automated tests 519 01:00:44.040 --> 01:00:48.120 Ralf Koller: for text quality in place for drupalize me, and 520 01:00:48.190 --> 01:00:54.700 Ralf Koller: if it would be possible to apply the same sort of liners to 521 01:00:55.750 --> 01:01:00.440 Ralf Koller: text strings within a drupal code base, and that way to have at least 522 01:01:01.160 --> 01:01:03.190 Ralf Koller: a first level of 523 01:01:03.560 --> 01:01:13.389 Ralf Koller: check against a certain quality, and then you can still take a proper further check in, for example, usability meeting. But that at least 524 01:01:13.490 --> 01:01:17.690 Ralf Koller: sentences like that that are clearly a parent not 525 01:01:18.160 --> 01:01:24.479 Ralf Koller: clear or hard to read would be avoided in the first place, and the people 526 01:01:24.770 --> 01:01:32.429 Ralf Koller: creating the patch. Put a bit more thought and a bit of work into it in the first place, and 527 01:01:33.130 --> 01:01:39.090 Ralf Koller: it would be maybe easier to understand for the sales and the in person review afterwards. As well 528 01:01:40.160 --> 01:01:49.010 Simo Hellsten: might also, automation might also help with the cases where I just write something here and fix it later, and never get fixed. 529 01:01:50.910 --> 01:01:52.670 Benji Fisher: I'm sorry. Could you say that again? 530 01:01:53.400 --> 01:01:57.689 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So if there is some sort of automation, it might also help 531 01:01:57.730 --> 01:02:16.920 Simo Hellsten: to notice stuff like when somebody puts right something, and it's kind of not really port through. And just somebody thinks I'll just fill in here something, and then I'll fix it later, but that but then forward to fix. So if there is automation checking, it might help to support also this kind of 532 01:02:17.680 --> 01:02:18.989 Simo Hellsten: quite off slugging. 533 01:02:19.420 --> 01:02:29.710 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I think Joe Schindler is his username on google.org is e Oj, the brave. And he's active in documentation. 534 01:02:29.870 --> 01:02:36.700 Benji Fisher: So I think if if someone wants to post a message in the documentation channel asking him for advice. 535 01:02:36.930 --> 01:02:41.499 Benji Fisher: You can probably help identify some tools that we might use? 536 01:02:43.870 --> 01:02:46.440 Benji Fisher: Would anyone like to follow up on that. 537 01:02:48.530 --> 01:02:52.869 sime: I'm interested in that, so I will follow up on that. 538 01:02:54.680 --> 01:02:59.210 Benji Fisher: Alright we have, just a few minutes before the hour. 539 01:03:01.310 --> 01:03:08.230 Benji Fisher: remember drupal 10.2 is coming soon. I think the beta is scheduled for next week. 540 01:03:08.770 --> 01:03:12.289 Benji Fisher: Anything else you wanna say before we wrap 541 01:03:17.160 --> 01:03:21.130 Ralf Koller: just one quick question. 542 01:03:21.410 --> 01:03:26.670 Ralf Koller: Could I post a draft for an issue? I went through 543 01:03:27.750 --> 01:03:46.080 Ralf Koller: the still open usability meeting issues the last few days and went chronologically backwards. And about 4 weeks ago we talked about the extent page, and it was at the end of the 544 01:03:46.250 --> 01:03:52.639 Ralf Koller: meeting, and we forgot to agree on some one to write up a command, and I 545 01:03:52.760 --> 01:04:03.809 Ralf Koller: went through it the last few days and summarized it. But in regards in particular. the last part in regard of the recommendation. I'm not sure if it 546 01:04:03.930 --> 01:04:07.940 Ralf Koller: is phrased appropriately because 547 01:04:08.850 --> 01:04:16.070 Ralf Koller: it's basically invalidating most of the work that was already done on the issue and feels always a bit 548 01:04:16.900 --> 01:04:21.069 Ralf Koller: strange, and I want to phrase it gently. 549 01:04:21.220 --> 01:04:22.240 Ralf Koller: That's 550 01:04:22.560 --> 01:04:27.740 Ralf Koller: if anyone could of the people who attended back then could take a look. 551 01:04:28.380 --> 01:04:30.050 Benji Fisher: Yeah, let's 552 01:04:30.120 --> 01:04:35.769 Benji Fisher: First, first of all, thanks. Thanks for doing it. And II often do the same thing. Try to 553 01:04:35.940 --> 01:04:37.740 Benji Fisher: control the issues that are 554 01:04:38.080 --> 01:04:43.829 Benji Fisher: haven't been revolved. But let's continue that discussion in slack 555 01:04:44.670 --> 01:04:46.030 Benji Fisher: and 556 01:04:46.740 --> 01:04:59.279 Benji Fisher: and and certainly over next few weeks I'll I'll I'm also working on that backlog. Thomas. I'm afraid you forgot about the time change this meeting is scheduled in Utc in the Us. Just 557 01:04:59.700 --> 01:05:04.200 Benji Fisher: ended daylight savings time. So we're just wrapping up. 558 01:05:07.050 --> 01:05:10.890 Benji Fisher: any other last words? 559 01:05:14.210 --> 01:05:21.930 Benji Fisher: Okay. thanks again. We'll do this again in a week at 1,400 Utc. 560 01:05:23.120 --> 01:05:25.800 Benji Fisher: And and and again, thanks all for coming. 561 01:05:26.260 --> 01:05:27.389 sime: Thanks, Adam. 562 01:05:28.230 --> 01:05:30.759 Aaron McHale: Thanks. Yeah, thanks. Thanks. Everyone. 563 01:05:32.580 --> 01:05:33.309 Are you.