WEBVTT 103 00:12:23.880 --> 00:12:32.989 Benji Fisher: Welcome. This is duple usability meeting for November 20, fourth, 2023. I'm Benji Fisher. Sharing my screen and moderating. 104 00:12:33.370 --> 00:12:44.059 Benji Fisher: Also. Present are Aaron Mikhail, Anushri Kumari, Christina Chimias, Niklas Misel Ralph Koller and Simo Helstone thank you all for joining. 105 00:12:44.830 --> 00:12:51.260 Benji Fisher: Let's start today. Returning to an issue we talked about some weeks ago. 106 00:12:51.420 --> 00:12:59.219 Benji Fisher: It's issue number 2, 5, 1, 9, 3, 6, 2 redesign the menu link add form 107 00:12:59.230 --> 00:13:01.250 Benji Fisher: to be less overwhelming. 108 00:13:02.300 --> 00:13:04.720 Benji Fisher: And I guess 109 00:13:04.730 --> 00:13:09.020 Benji Fisher: maybe got a sample drupal site up here. 110 00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:13.479 Benji Fisher: Let's just go to structure menus. 111 00:13:18.210 --> 00:13:19.520 Benji Fisher: and 112 00:13:23.650 --> 00:13:29.660 Benji Fisher: I guess the administration menu is always most overwhelming. So I'll start there. 113 00:13:30.490 --> 00:13:35.950 And this is the page we're talking about the form to add a new menu link to a menu. 114 00:13:35.980 --> 00:13:44.590 Benji Fisher: It has all of these fields. most of which are are typically ignored. 115 00:13:44.890 --> 00:13:48.840 Benji Fisher: and the idea 116 00:13:49.110 --> 00:13:50.690 Benji Fisher: is to 117 00:13:50.910 --> 00:13:54.960 Benji Fisher: redesign it, to look more like. I guess I don't want 118 00:13:56.670 --> 00:13:57.720 Benji Fisher: that. 119 00:14:03.700 --> 00:14:07.600 Benji Fisher: It is to redesign it, to look more like the Nodead form 120 00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:20.709 Benji Fisher: where we have a main content area with the commonly used fields, and then everything else gets shoved over into these collapsed details, elements 121 00:14:21.060 --> 00:14:24.249 Benji Fisher: in the in the sidebar. 122 00:14:25.430 --> 00:14:31.299 Benji Fisher: So that is the idea. And I. We have talked about this 123 00:14:31.400 --> 00:14:36.889 Benji Fisher: previously. and there are some recent comments on the issue suggesting. 124 00:14:37.780 --> 00:14:40.250 Benji Fisher: some changes. 125 00:14:43.950 --> 00:14:45.660 Benji Fisher: So 126 00:14:50.920 --> 00:14:53.449 Benji Fisher: I guess a previous iteration. 127 00:14:56.630 --> 00:14:57.999 Benji Fisher: Let's look at this 128 00:15:00.560 --> 00:15:05.730 Benji Fisher: screenshot. Previous iteration had sidebar 129 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:18.499 Benji Fisher: looking like this when it's all expanded by default. Most or all of these are collapsed. So each details. Element has a single form element in it. 130 00:15:18.850 --> 00:15:23.190 Benji Fisher: menu settings comment settings 131 00:15:23.380 --> 00:15:25.140 Benji Fisher: to our L alias. 132 00:15:26.070 --> 00:15:29.570 Benji Fisher: So this is this is the node edit form 133 00:15:36.180 --> 00:15:38.589 Benji Fisher: like. That's the previous iteration. 134 00:15:40.230 --> 00:15:41.710 Benji Fisher: Looks like this. 135 00:15:45.950 --> 00:15:48.710 Benji Fisher: No, that's that's the before. 136 00:15:51.650 --> 00:15:53.110 Benji Fisher: and here's the after. 137 00:15:54.230 --> 00:15:55.290 Benji Fisher: There we go. 138 00:15:57.170 --> 00:16:01.080 Benji Fisher: So 139 00:16:02.070 --> 00:16:12.080 Benji Fisher: title the link and the enabled checkbox go in the main area. Everything else goes in the sidebar. The 140 00:16:12.150 --> 00:16:18.960 Benji Fisher: the detail element for the main navigations expanded and all the others are collapsed. Or or maybe that's not even the detail element 141 00:16:19.100 --> 00:16:27.479 Benji Fisher: before I go any further. Is it clear enough what the problem is that we're trying to solve any questions about the context. 142 00:16:34.040 --> 00:16:35.490 Benji Fisher: and 143 00:16:35.650 --> 00:16:38.179 Benji Fisher: Ralph mentions that the current 144 00:16:38.490 --> 00:16:49.170 Benji Fisher: merge request doesn't apply. Or maybe it's Patch doesn't buy at the moment. So would it would take some work to actually get a live example of this going. 145 00:16:50.150 --> 00:16:55.460 Benji Fisher: so this, this is what we 146 00:16:55.570 --> 00:16:57.760 Benji Fisher: discussed at a previous meeting. 147 00:16:57.780 --> 00:17:01.110 Benji Fisher: If I remember correctly, we 148 00:17:01.800 --> 00:17:09.010 Benji Fisher: we approved the the design sort of deferring to the 149 00:17:09.089 --> 00:17:13.999 Benji Fisher: decisions made by the people implementing it. We we suggested some changes. 150 00:17:14.140 --> 00:17:21.850 Benji Fisher: but you know we we didn't discuss at length whether the 151 00:17:21.940 --> 00:17:24.680 Benji Fisher: sidebar elements should be combined or not. 152 00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:32.380 Benji Fisher: And in a recent comments, xjm. suggested 153 00:17:32.890 --> 00:17:34.160 Benji Fisher: grouping them 154 00:17:35.370 --> 00:17:39.730 Benji Fisher: so that there's more than one form element in each collapsed 155 00:17:40.950 --> 00:17:45.950 Benji Fisher: in each collapsed details. Element. 156 00:17:48.110 --> 00:17:52.599 Benji Fisher: So I'm not sure expanded is a good label for the metadata accordion. 157 00:17:53.160 --> 00:18:08.739 Benji Fisher: after manually testing this. I'm also not sure having one element per collapsed. Accordion element is the best user experience. Then the user has to click, to expand each element to see what it contains and modify it if desired. 158 00:18:08.980 --> 00:18:13.790 Benji Fisher: They gave us a screenshot of the node element form 159 00:18:14.990 --> 00:18:25.689 Benji Fisher: each accordion elements. Label is a noun. Some of the elements are grouped logically, while others are standalone. I think the menu link accordion should be as follows, one description. 160 00:18:26.280 --> 00:18:31.149 Benji Fisher: 2 display settings containing both the weight and the expansion setting 161 00:18:32.210 --> 00:18:41.880 Benji Fisher: at a minimum, I think labeling each accordion element with a noun is required. Let's try implementing this and then get another review. 162 00:18:43.520 --> 00:18:46.580 Benji Fisher: And also include screenshots. 163 00:18:48.610 --> 00:18:49.990 Benji Fisher: So 164 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:54.479 Benji Fisher: would Carche 33, 165 00:18:55.230 --> 00:19:00.680 Benji Fisher: did some work and posted a screenshot as requested. Aaron. Go ahead. 166 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:04.619 Aaron McHale: Yeah, thanks, Benji, I think. 167 00:19:05.430 --> 00:19:12.120 Aaron McHale: I think, extreme makes a good point in that. Like, if we think about what we're trying to achieve, like, we're trying to make for less 168 00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:35.849 Aaron McHale: like, okay, so so, less overwhelming to look at it first, and so that the idea of moving some of the the lesser use fields to the sidebar, I think, is is sensible? And I think we have to think about what value? What's the value in like with the groupings? Right, are we? You know, do they logically make sense? Because there's. 169 00:19:35.850 --> 00:19:59.880 Aaron McHale: you know, we don't want to go overboard and have a group for every single element like that seems too much, but equally like I think we could find some, you know, some logical connection between some of them, and but having said that it might be that simply putting those you use fields in the sidebar like, maybe we don't actually need the groupings, because the Note farm, for instance, does have a lot more, and there is some. Really 170 00:20:00.110 --> 00:20:16.450 Aaron McHale: the differences like revision stuff is under one. The menu, like things, are under another right? So the URL aliases. So there's some really logical separations there. I'm not sure how much you can see the same for the menu form 171 00:20:16.560 --> 00:20:21.000 Aaron McHale: because everything you're doing is just about that menu link. 172 00:20:21.100 --> 00:20:32.989 Aaron McHale: So I would question whether we need to group things like that. But I think moving those live sums to the sidebar is still really like. Still, a really bad thing to do. That's that's kind of where I'm thinking at the moment. 173 00:20:44.450 --> 00:20:47.020 Aaron McHale: So I'll just hand over to Ralph and see you've got a hand up. 174 00:20:47.670 --> 00:20:49.699 Ralf Koller: Okay? 175 00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:53.209 Ralf Koller: II think. 176 00:20:53.250 --> 00:21:04.180 Ralf Koller: having those groupings sort of helps from a cognitive, cognitive standpoint that way. You're easy to process the type of different form 177 00:21:04.230 --> 00:21:10.159 Ralf Koller: elements you have in the sidebar. But, on the other hand, I wonder. 178 00:21:10.410 --> 00:21:16.479 Ralf Koller: even though it would break a little bit the pattern known from the node edit forms 179 00:21:16.590 --> 00:21:27.880 Ralf Koller: to just have all those groups expanded but per default. And that way you see everything at once, because you don't have that many form elements on the page. So 180 00:21:28.930 --> 00:21:30.980 Ralf Koller: might be a compromise. 181 00:21:32.890 --> 00:21:35.870 Benji Fisher: Yeah, III think. 182 00:21:36.360 --> 00:21:41.330 Benji Fisher: I think we suggested collapsing them mostly to reduce the visual clutter. 183 00:21:41.620 --> 00:21:44.640 Benji Fisher: So, for example, 184 00:21:45.220 --> 00:21:48.799 Benji Fisher: The the Wakefield 185 00:21:48.940 --> 00:21:52.090 Benji Fisher: was put into a details element, and 186 00:21:52.110 --> 00:22:00.630 Benji Fisher: that has the effect of hiding this rather long description text as well as the the form which it 187 00:22:02.330 --> 00:22:03.850 Benji Fisher: but let's 188 00:22:05.290 --> 00:22:07.140 Benji Fisher: have a look at 189 00:22:08.340 --> 00:22:11.920 Benji Fisher: the screenshot that that we got after 190 00:22:12.490 --> 00:22:16.790 Benji Fisher: implementing X, jm, suggestion. So what are the 191 00:22:17.010 --> 00:22:20.940 Benji Fisher: groupings? Parent link is open. 192 00:22:21.310 --> 00:22:23.930 Benji Fisher: And I think that, 193 00:22:26.660 --> 00:22:31.580 Benji Fisher: yeah, that's that's same as as it was in the previous iteration. 194 00:22:32.030 --> 00:22:38.289 Benji Fisher: and then the these other things are closed by default, but the screenshot shows them open. 195 00:22:38.420 --> 00:22:42.050 Benji Fisher: There's the description in one which is 196 00:22:43.910 --> 00:22:48.280 Benji Fisher: probably the same and then 197 00:22:49.390 --> 00:23:03.880 Benji Fisher: the display settings combines 2 things. The show's expanded check box and the weight. So it's not a huge change from the previous version. 198 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:09.580 Benji Fisher: so there are 199 00:23:09.600 --> 00:23:10.610 Benji Fisher: 2 200 00:23:11.120 --> 00:23:22.949 Benji Fisher: details, elements, whereas previously there were 3. Whoa, sorry about that. this the screenshot shows them collapse. The screenshot shows them expanded. 201 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:31.070 Benji Fisher: The labels are now description unchanged that has just one thing in it. These 2 are combined into display settings. 202 00:23:34.820 --> 00:23:36.649 Cristina Chumillas: I think it's 203 00:23:38.890 --> 00:23:43.549 Cristina Chumillas: yeah grouping them. It's good 204 00:23:44.190 --> 00:23:46.540 Cristina Chumillas: not having them opened 205 00:23:48.460 --> 00:23:51.420 Cristina Chumillas: like the fact that you have them like 206 00:23:51.870 --> 00:24:03.699 Cristina Chumillas: grouped. And then you can collapse. And in a way that actually makes more sense, because actually. the the other. I think, can you switch to the other the previous one 207 00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:07.069 Cristina Chumillas: where you had the 3, each of them? 208 00:24:07.350 --> 00:24:10.619 Cristina Chumillas: Yeah, I mean expanded itself. It's like 209 00:24:10.630 --> 00:24:15.140 Cristina Chumillas: it's it's weird that you have to click in here. Then click inside. And it's 210 00:24:15.260 --> 00:24:27.100 Cristina Chumillas: it's a strange. So I think display settings is perfect. What I'm not sure is about that having that like opened 211 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:41.339 Cristina Chumillas: all the time, because, as you were saying, if the purpose of that, it was actually simplifying the form. Why would we actually have that on the right open? Because, as you can see, every time that you have something open. 212 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:46.819 Cristina Chumillas: The designs are prepared to be more prominent. 213 00:24:47.470 --> 00:24:57.160 Cristina Chumillas: meaning that you have like a lot of blue things, or like active things like screaming to you, hey? I'm active. I'm here. Look at me. 214 00:24:57.530 --> 00:25:08.039 Cristina Chumillas: And it actually takes way more importance. The right side around the center one. which should be actually the most important one. 215 00:25:08.290 --> 00:25:14.559 Benji Fisher: III think, actually, by default they will be closed. And 216 00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:23.239 Benji Fisher: and you you can see that display settings is selected. That's because it was opened along with the other one for the purposes of the screenshot. 217 00:25:23.780 --> 00:25:27.600 Cristina Chumillas: So we're not talking about having that opened by default. 218 00:25:28.650 --> 00:25:34.359 Benji Fisher: Right? We're we're we're we're going to have them close by default. They're just open for the purposes screenshot. 219 00:25:34.900 --> 00:25:38.170 Aaron McHale: So, 220 00:25:39.060 --> 00:25:41.679 Aaron McHale: Benji, you probably will know the answer to this one. 221 00:25:41.770 --> 00:25:50.169 Aaron McHale: I'm wondering the new yeah. Get on the spot. Here, let's find out the new add, child. 222 00:25:50.500 --> 00:25:52.060 Aaron McHale: Contextual link. 223 00:25:52.600 --> 00:25:56.200 Aaron McHale: Does that mean that the parent link. 224 00:25:56.620 --> 00:25:57.590 Aaron McHale: It's 225 00:25:57.890 --> 00:26:08.820 Aaron McHale: still there. Or does that go away? When you use the add child? One. Because then you're already kind of saying what the parent is. You don't need to like, you know. Adjust it based on the 226 00:26:09.260 --> 00:26:12.830 Aaron McHale: You only need set parent. If you use the top level ad link right? 227 00:26:14.130 --> 00:26:25.429 Benji Fisher: what did that new link does is set a default value for this? It does not remove it from the form and as as as Aaron 228 00:26:25.590 --> 00:26:27.390 Benji Fisher: is where I 229 00:26:28.050 --> 00:26:31.450 Benji Fisher: implemented this little change. 230 00:26:32.750 --> 00:26:44.010 Benji Fisher: So here I'm going to a live site, an administration menu. And if I want to add a child of block layout. There is now the link here at child. 231 00:26:45.630 --> 00:26:47.159 Benji Fisher: my new 232 00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:49.249 Benji Fisher: element for my 233 00:26:49.340 --> 00:26:50.470 Benji Fisher: by length 234 00:26:54.600 --> 00:27:02.259 Benji Fisher: some valid page, just for the sake of example. 235 00:27:03.300 --> 00:27:05.189 and you can see, the parent link 236 00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:12.519 Benji Fisher: is selected, so the the menu is under the form which it is still there. It just has default value. Selected 237 00:27:12.650 --> 00:27:18.440 Benji Fisher: point is that it's rather overwhelming to have to select it from here. We save 238 00:27:19.610 --> 00:27:20.890 Benji Fisher: it goes there. 239 00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:25.109 Benji Fisher: That got into drupal 10 points. 240 00:27:25.300 --> 00:27:29.529 Benji Fisher: 2 which will be released in a few weeks. 241 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:32.849 Benji Fisher: So I think that answers your question. 242 00:27:35.430 --> 00:27:58.709 Aaron McHale: Yes, thank you. Yeah, no, that's good to know. Just so that we because the other thing I was thinking is like, if we if you've come from that, add child page or like, I'm just thinking like, is there value in like, not just not showing the parent link. But then maybe maybe it's good to have it to have a sense of like, okay, you know, it's definitely gonna come under the 243 00:27:58.790 --> 00:28:07.430 Aaron McHale: you know, under the the the be a child of the one you selected, but also, then you have the option to change it. So it's probably. And then it's also like consistent. There's no like 244 00:28:07.450 --> 00:28:13.580 Aaron McHale: having this. This there consistently is probably good as well. So that's that's good. 245 00:28:13.660 --> 00:28:20.059 Aaron McHale: yeah, I'm just also wondering, like, I'm trying to think about is there a way we could? Some like? Is there a way to maybe have. 246 00:28:20.250 --> 00:28:24.190 Aaron McHale: And further reduce the groupings like, 247 00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:35.500 Aaron McHale: Oh, I guess that's the older. Is that the older version of that screens screenshot? You're seeing it showing there. Do you have the could you go to the newer version? Sorry? 248 00:28:36.730 --> 00:28:38.339 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 249 00:28:41.900 --> 00:28:45.400 Aaron McHale: yeah. I think display display settings is good. 250 00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:56.130 Aaron McHale: I was thinking, is there, like description again, is another, is one for this, like just a single thing under description. So II don't know if it's worth thinking about. 251 00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.400 Aaron McHale: like? Does that need to be a grouping or or like? 252 00:28:59.500 --> 00:29:06.060 Aaron McHale: Could that be with parent link? Or does? Is does that make sense to keep it in its own grouping given. It's just a single field. But 253 00:29:08.650 --> 00:29:13.850 Benji Fisher: Christina agrees. 100% emoji reaction. 254 00:29:14.290 --> 00:29:32.139 Benji Fisher: I guess. But my feeling is that what I'm looking at now is an improvement over the current design. and I'm I'm willing to leave some decisions for others, but if we see 255 00:29:32.190 --> 00:29:36.389 Benji Fisher: some clear improvement, we should suggest it. But go ahead. Simo. 256 00:29:38.340 --> 00:29:53.709 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I was just wanted to know that this. Most of these settings are something that a lot of kind of a lot of site builders do from the kind of the overview page dragging and doing stuff like that. 257 00:29:53.850 --> 00:29:56.590 Simo Hellsten: and also that at some point 258 00:29:56.690 --> 00:30:05.940 Simo Hellsten: soonish. We need to redesign the dragging interface so that it's well where we can 2.2 compatible so to improve that 259 00:30:06.560 --> 00:30:17.370 Simo Hellsten: dragging. But th, this, this view is something that has the enabled, and also the parent, and wait. So this is another one that kind of 260 00:30:18.670 --> 00:30:28.460 Simo Hellsten: for soited users. I think this should improve usability over that form. So it's not so much a problem if a user can't 261 00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:36.090 Simo Hellsten: easily to find that information from a single menu. Item, because it's also here in a structured way. So there is a 262 00:30:36.430 --> 00:30:38.089 Simo Hellsten: 2 ways to do that. 263 00:30:40.300 --> 00:30:45.890 And then the chat. Christina says, redesign table drag 200 and also gives it a 264 00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:50.700 Benji Fisher: oh, no. Some someone else gave up a thumbs up reaction to Christina's comment, okay. 265 00:30:51.330 --> 00:31:03.530 Benji Fisher: yeah. And and that is one of the reason to deemphasize some of these elements in in the form, to shove them over to the collapsed 266 00:31:03.700 --> 00:31:11.079 Benji Fisher: details element, because it is more, it is easy to use them from here. 267 00:31:11.120 --> 00:31:17.700 Benji Fisher: If we're going to rearrange, we have the option of moving things around. 268 00:31:17.710 --> 00:31:22.790 Benji Fisher: It's still overwhelming in a long menu like this, but it's 269 00:31:23.140 --> 00:31:30.250 Benji Fisher: but certainly the weight is something. Sure. I'll I'll explicitly show the weights. 270 00:31:30.410 --> 00:31:36.990 Benji Fisher: you you normally set the weight by clicking and dragging, could 271 00:31:37.310 --> 00:31:47.810 Benji Fisher: set it from here. It's really not helpful to select the weight from this page. although it's possible. 272 00:31:50.130 --> 00:31:56.410 Benji Fisher: So II think I am. I'm just agreeing with everything that Simo said, go ahead, Erin. 273 00:31:56.970 --> 00:31:58.699 Aaron McHale: Thank you. 274 00:31:58.860 --> 00:32:12.379 Aaron McHale: yeah. I before I say this, I agree that the wait is like almost entirely useless unless you really know what we need to select. But what I what I'm thinking is Benji sorry? Could you go back to the the latest screenshot for me. 275 00:32:12.460 --> 00:32:15.969 Aaron McHale: ye with the ones expanded. 276 00:32:16.080 --> 00:32:29.659 Aaron McHale: yeah, there we go. I realize that like something doesn't quite sit right with me about the weight, and the parent link being the opposite. like effectively opposite ends at that form cause they're like 277 00:32:29.690 --> 00:32:35.940 Aaron McHale: they're they are like, logically linked like the you set the wait, the way is within 278 00:32:36.820 --> 00:32:41.260 Aaron McHale: hit links at the same level. and all of those links have the same parent. 279 00:32:41.650 --> 00:32:45.489 Aaron McHale: or they none of them have a parent. So like I agree. 280 00:32:45.550 --> 00:32:55.339 Aaron McHale: the the weight field is like useless. in a sense, unless you really know the weight. But another part of me is like doesn't like seeing them. 281 00:32:55.370 --> 00:33:03.189 Aaron McHale: not together, because on here they're together like on this, on the page, on right. Now, you'll see that way appears below. 282 00:33:03.220 --> 00:33:11.270 Aaron McHale: Yeah. Parent like it to me in my head that makes sense from a a logical like grouping. But I also 283 00:33:11.620 --> 00:33:12.939 Aaron McHale: don't think we need 284 00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:15.960 Aaron McHale: wait to be that prominent 285 00:33:17.100 --> 00:33:25.430 Aaron McHale: So I don't know how to reconcile those 2 things because they feel like opposite opposites. I guess that makes sense. 286 00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:29.149 Benji Fisher: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. 287 00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:35.990 Benji Fisher: The 2 of them together determine the position 288 00:33:36.710 --> 00:33:38.140 Benji Fisher: on this list. 289 00:33:38.770 --> 00:33:42.560 Benji Fisher: And and so they are logically connected. 290 00:33:43.560 --> 00:33:45.299 Benji Fisher: But then, on the other hand. 291 00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:48.659 Benji Fisher: as as I said a minute ago, it's 292 00:33:49.780 --> 00:33:59.530 Benji Fisher: basically useless to set the weight on on this page, because you don't see all the other weights. And unless you've. I guess 293 00:33:59.930 --> 00:34:11.600 Benji Fisher: if you have clicked the link to to show the row weights, and you say II want something to appear under structure, and I want it to come after all these other things. 294 00:34:11.610 --> 00:34:23.569 Benji Fisher: I can give it a a weight of one. So I you know II have to both note what the parent is, and then note what existing weights are. Of course they're mostly 0 by default. 295 00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:28.310 Benji Fisher: it's 296 00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:39.520 Aaron McHale: II might be the only one who cares about. Wait's the one like actually setting them, because like, but that's holy is because I'm like a software engineer and always want things to be like incrementing nicely. So I'm just like. 297 00:34:39.699 --> 00:34:41.650 Aaron McHale: I think 99% of people 298 00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:54.570 Aaron McHale: don't care that the weights are a bit weird. like what I'm creating when I'm sorting fields. I'm like, okay, this one is one. This one has to be 2. This, like, I, most people just like triple figure out. But I'm just 299 00:34:55.370 --> 00:34:57.060 Aaron McHale: yes. 300 00:34:57.240 --> 00:35:00.449 Benji Fisher: II think I'm with you there, Aaron. 301 00:35:00.890 --> 00:35:14.729 Benji Fisher: Okay, is there? Does anyone have any suggestions for reconciling these 2 things that, on the one hand. the parent link and the weight are logically connected 302 00:35:14.970 --> 00:35:19.039 Benji Fisher: because they determine where something shows up on the list. 303 00:35:20.310 --> 00:35:21.959 Benji Fisher: On the other hand. 304 00:35:22.370 --> 00:35:27.939 Benji Fisher: we want to hide the weight by default, because it is so 305 00:35:28.690 --> 00:35:30.750 Benji Fisher: infrequently used. 306 00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:35.630 Benji Fisher: Is there any way to reconcile the 2? 307 00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:53.830 Benji Fisher: Yes, that one option would be, go to go back to this previous version, and where everything is in a single details element so, and then rearrange them so that wait comes right below parent link 308 00:35:54.470 --> 00:35:58.640 Benji Fisher: but that would, of course. 309 00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:02.159 Benji Fisher: undo the recent work to group things. 310 00:36:02.240 --> 00:36:07.100 Aaron McHale: What if we had? What if we put display settings directly 311 00:36:07.520 --> 00:36:18.729 Aaron McHale: below. So what if we flipped around display settings description and also rearrange it? So wait comes before show is expanded, because then, logically, it's still in in that order. 312 00:36:24.630 --> 00:36:29.890 Aaron McHale: Cause, I think also, description is is possibly the least like. Personally. 313 00:36:30.300 --> 00:36:37.109 Aaron McHale: I almost think of a time other than if you like. Your use for admin links that you would set the description 314 00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:44.250 Benji Fisher: right. And 315 00:36:45.150 --> 00:36:53.440 Benji Fisher: can you see in in zoom when I hover over a link it shows the 316 00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:58.369 Aaron McHale: title text, I don't think so, Chris, you're sharing screen. 317 00:37:00.120 --> 00:37:02.570 Benji Fisher: Okay? Well, just 318 00:37:02.710 --> 00:37:11.089 Benji Fisher: I. I'm I'm I'm trying to illustrate the the what the description means, but as as I hover over reports, I see. 319 00:37:11.170 --> 00:37:18.939 Benji Fisher: But I guess Zoom doesn't capture the title attribute view reports, comma updates comma and errors. 320 00:37:19.340 --> 00:37:33.360 Benji Fisher: As I hover over people, I get manage user accounts, roles and permissions. And and that is what the the description field does shown when hovering over the menu link 321 00:37:33.890 --> 00:37:40.630 Benji Fisher: and and I agree, that's that's not used very often. 322 00:37:40.750 --> 00:37:43.759 Benji Fisher: In fact, I think there are. 323 00:37:44.270 --> 00:37:50.900 Benji Fisher: Some accessibility reasons for not using title attributes of links. 324 00:37:51.810 --> 00:37:53.330 Cristina Chumillas: Actually. 325 00:37:54.580 --> 00:37:57.199 Cristina Chumillas: so what I'm I'm seeing is 326 00:37:57.730 --> 00:38:04.760 Cristina Chumillas: like arguing that this description feel is useful because it is still 327 00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:19.330 Cristina Chumillas: in there. I think we've discussed several times that something that is in there doesn't. That something is in there doesn't mean that it needs to stay in there that we need to question all these things. And I don't think, in the new navigation is actually 328 00:38:19.630 --> 00:38:28.150 Cristina Chumillas: something that we are going to have for sure, at least not for sure on the ones that are going to be 2 holes of the of the child items. 329 00:38:31.220 --> 00:38:33.339 Benji Fisher: I'm sorry. Could you say that last part again. 330 00:38:34.720 --> 00:38:37.280 Cristina Chumillas: So, for example, structure 331 00:38:37.570 --> 00:38:43.079 Cristina Chumillas: the parenting instructor that actually has children inside. 332 00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:55.069 Cristina Chumillas: exactly. If you hover over strata right now, you have a link on the new navigation. You don't have a link, because actually, the whole thing is opening and closing. 333 00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:58.969 Cristina Chumillas: That won't have a description. Probably. 334 00:38:59.070 --> 00:39:14.450 Cristina Chumillas: at least so far it doesn't have so relying on that something right now. It is like this, and that being an argument to keep it that way, or giving value to the description field, because that's the place where it use. I don't think that's actually 335 00:39:15.090 --> 00:39:19.029 Cristina Chumillas: it. It. It does. It shouldn't have a lot of weight on making calls. 336 00:39:20.230 --> 00:39:37.860 Aaron McHale: I was, I was thinking, in my head. But I didn't wanna like say this. But since you mentioned it, Christina, like, yeah, I was thinking in the new navigation particularly because, you know, we so Christina, I triple commodity user tests at the new navigation on Mobile. I know Mobile, you you literally. 337 00:39:37.910 --> 00:39:48.740 Aaron McHale: you pretty much don't know. The descriptions exist in the type like the title attribute, basically is never shown to you on mobile devices. Normally, and 338 00:39:48.830 --> 00:40:02.420 Aaron McHale: yeah, and sorry touch slip. Yeah, touch on touch devices. Cause yeah, you could be using like, like me, I have a laptop with a touch screen. So if I use a touch screen, I'm pretty much never gonna see the title address, and so for a lot of people 339 00:40:02.450 --> 00:40:11.530 Aaron McHale: like the title attribute, isn't that useful? And. as Christina said, like we might get to a point where those admin 340 00:40:11.730 --> 00:40:25.069 Aaron McHale: indexes, as we call them, the ones that list. All of the links like just we just don't need them anymore. Ii mean, they'll probably still be there, but, like probably won't use them as much to do now? 341 00:40:25.930 --> 00:40:30.920 Aaron McHale: so like, yeah, maybe maybe having description as the very last thing 342 00:40:31.270 --> 00:40:33.460 Aaron McHale: is not the worst idea. 343 00:40:34.150 --> 00:40:52.630 Aaron McHale: Cause then we we don't. Wanna. We also like. I also feel like we don't want to encourage people to use something that is just genuinely, not that useful to people. Because if you think about it from like an accessibility perspective. If we promote the description field as a you as a field like by making it more visible in the form. 344 00:40:52.720 --> 00:40:57.939 Aaron McHale: We're. We're kinda encouraging people in a way to use it. 345 00:40:58.070 --> 00:40:59.580 Aaron McHale: But we know that 346 00:41:00.010 --> 00:41:04.669 Aaron McHale: even not even outside of, I guess more. So outside of the admin structure. 347 00:41:05.180 --> 00:41:17.340 Aaron McHale: as from what was said, like the description. Field is just not that useful to anybody, even on desktop like you're probably, if a site is setting like a description, for, like their home link and their about us, link. 348 00:41:17.410 --> 00:41:22.900 Aaron McHale: I would say, why do you need to set description? In the first place like, what is that about those links that aren't clear? 349 00:41:23.030 --> 00:41:25.759 Aaron McHale: In the first place, 350 00:41:25.970 --> 00:41:27.760 Benji Fisher: thumbs up for Ralph. 351 00:41:28.120 --> 00:41:53.990 Aaron McHale: Yeah. So I would be really, really okay with us just de-emphasizing the description fields. I would also be okay with us, completely getting rid of it. But that's a different conversation. But if we if we fl, I think this solves the cognitive thing as well of like. If we took display settings and put it above description, and then we also, like pro possibly flipped the way and shows expanding so that way is is 352 00:41:54.310 --> 00:42:02.080 Aaron McHale: like at the top. Then we still have that like connection between the way it comes after the 353 00:42:02.270 --> 00:42:07.539 Aaron McHale: parent link. So I'm gonna stop talking because Valve wants to talk. I've talked to way too much. 354 00:42:08.070 --> 00:42:08.969 Benji Fisher: Go ahead, Ralph. 355 00:42:09.850 --> 00:42:24.169 Ralf Koller: At first a thumbs up. For even considering to strike the description field. And on another note, the more I think about it, description is for me also 356 00:42:24.460 --> 00:42:27.230 Ralf Koller: sort of misleading cosmic description 357 00:42:27.590 --> 00:42:36.970 Ralf Koller: in the context of the triple ui, II associate usually something like the description, for, for example, a con for content type 358 00:42:37.180 --> 00:42:48.649 Ralf Koller: for the fields in a content type, or, for example, menu items in that list, and that that would be the place. I would expect to see it. But instead, it's about a tool tip. 359 00:42:48.700 --> 00:42:49.830 Ralf Koller: and 360 00:42:50.720 --> 00:42:55.489 Ralf Koller: if the description in air quotes is kept for now. 361 00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:57.150 Ralf Koller: maybe 362 00:42:58.290 --> 00:43:03.860 Ralf Koller: name it differently, simply as tool tip that way, it would be way clearer for me as a user. 363 00:43:03.890 --> 00:43:08.230 Ralf Koller: That at the moment you have to read the description 364 00:43:08.260 --> 00:43:09.770 Ralf Koller: for the description field 365 00:43:09.780 --> 00:43:14.769 Ralf Koller: to know, shown when hovering over the menu link. That's the place where the description is displayed. 366 00:43:16.850 --> 00:43:32.739 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I think we we've already created this follow up issue to to review the description. And that would be a good place to discuss changing the labels. II think rearranging the form is enough of a change. 367 00:43:33.620 --> 00:43:38.470 Benji Fisher: Pile on additional changes for just control scope go ahead, Christina. 368 00:43:39.590 --> 00:44:03.169 Cristina Chumillas: Yeah, I just wanted to. I just wanted to emphasize that right now, we're discussing how to reorder a form with existing patterns. And if we were having this conversation with designers ui designers that would become completely different thing, because you would be actually creating new patterns, removing things and 369 00:44:04.050 --> 00:44:25.439 Cristina Chumillas: this conversation is super limited right now to just using the things that we have in that right now on the screen. So well, not in data screen, I mean, like on the current form. So I would be really aware of that. And if we're going to introduce new patterns with a new designs, maybe it's worth not giving 370 00:44:25.600 --> 00:44:34.899 Cristina Chumillas: too many thoughts to how we could make this form perfect with the tools that we have right now, and actually start thinking about new tools, instead of like 371 00:44:34.930 --> 00:44:40.549 Cristina Chumillas: giving so many rounds to the same thing that it's currently not designed for this. 372 00:44:43.090 --> 00:44:45.630 Benji Fisher: Yeah, as a designer. 373 00:44:46.230 --> 00:44:53.639 Benji Fisher: I'm always in favor of of making small changes controlling scope. And and I think that 374 00:44:53.670 --> 00:44:56.059 Benji Fisher: comes to the same conclusion that we should 375 00:44:56.400 --> 00:45:02.790 Benji Fisher: go ahead and make this improvement, and there's always chance to improve on it further in the future. 376 00:45:03.090 --> 00:45:05.350 Benji Fisher: So I think we're 377 00:45:07.230 --> 00:45:16.620 Benji Fisher: pretty close to consensus. If I can just find the right screenshot. that what we should do 378 00:45:18.550 --> 00:45:19.540 Benji Fisher: here it is. 379 00:45:19.820 --> 00:45:29.480 Benji Fisher: What we should do is rearrange things as we've described. So description goes to the bottom. 380 00:45:29.610 --> 00:45:33.979 Benji Fisher: display settings go right below parent link 381 00:45:34.230 --> 00:45:48.419 Benji Fisher: and also swap the 2 elements under display settings, so that when it is open, weight is at least visually close to parent link. although separated from it in a different 382 00:45:49.090 --> 00:45:54.340 Benji Fisher: and and and the details element. I get a thumbs up from Ralph. 383 00:45:55.680 --> 00:45:59.910 Benji Fisher: thumbs up from Aaron. 384 00:46:01.590 --> 00:46:07.409 Benji Fisher: and that's a a small change that should be fairly easy to implement. Given what we already have 385 00:46:07.660 --> 00:46:09.870 Benji Fisher: any further comments on this. 386 00:46:14.410 --> 00:46:23.340 Benji Fisher: Since I've been following the issue, I'll I'll post comment on it, suggesting those further changes and 387 00:46:24.730 --> 00:46:30.760 Benji Fisher: and with any luck, we we can actually come to agreement and and and get it in. 388 00:46:31.050 --> 00:46:31.840 And. 389 00:46:32.290 --> 00:46:37.079 Benji Fisher: as I said, make make further improvements in in other issues. 390 00:46:38.220 --> 00:46:46.950 Benji Fisher: okay. Simo, are you ready to take over the screen share? 391 00:46:50.990 --> 00:46:56.879 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I can share the issue. I changed device. So would you mind if I can use that 392 00:46:57.080 --> 00:47:00.689 Simo Hellsten: same site and site installation you have. 393 00:47:01.010 --> 00:47:04.719 Benji Fisher: Oh, of course, would you ready? Just share your screen? 394 00:47:14.090 --> 00:47:16.710 Benji Fisher: And I'm afraid we have less than 20 min left. 395 00:47:18.940 --> 00:47:20.449 Benji Fisher: and I do see your screen. 396 00:47:23.450 --> 00:47:25.689 Simo Hellsten: So this is issue number 397 00:47:25.860 --> 00:47:29.269 Simo Hellsten: 3, 3, 2, 5, 5, 5, one. 398 00:47:30.020 --> 00:47:42.979 Simo Hellsten: Add disable, remit. add disable image resize setting to image fields. fields. this one we already discussed, and we ended up proposing 399 00:47:44.040 --> 00:47:44.820 Simo Hellsten: up 400 00:47:46.940 --> 00:47:48.000 Simo Hellsten: using 401 00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:54.369 Simo Hellsten: using radio buttons for choosing 402 00:47:55.660 --> 00:47:57.080 Simo Hellsten: which way to 403 00:47:59.590 --> 00:48:01.080 Simo Hellsten: do 404 00:48:02.730 --> 00:48:06.299 Simo Hellsten: which which way to choose it. Let's see, I'm trying to 405 00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:10.430 open this. 406 00:48:14.180 --> 00:48:16.050 Simo Hellsten: The current tab. 407 00:48:16.770 --> 00:48:18.709 Benji Fisher: and Ralph has posted a link. 408 00:48:18.810 --> 00:48:20.390 Benji Fisher: The issue in the zoom chat. 409 00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:27.960 Simo Hellsten: So current version 410 00:48:28.590 --> 00:48:32.690 should have the radio buttons. I'm now sharing a screenshot from that. 411 00:48:33.030 --> 00:48:35.630 Simo Hellsten: the latest batch. And 412 00:48:36.170 --> 00:48:44.569 Simo Hellsten: here we have 2 radio buttons with text, resize larger images and reject larger images with an error message. 413 00:48:45.270 --> 00:48:46.700 Simo Hellsten: So 414 00:48:47.730 --> 00:48:48.870 Simo Hellsten: this one's 415 00:48:49.570 --> 00:48:50.250 are. 416 00:48:50.740 --> 00:48:56.770 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. The the text for the radio buttons were my suggestions. And here 417 00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.609 Simo Hellsten: it's kind of I feel that at least we need to change this 418 00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:01.550 Simo Hellsten: up. 419 00:49:03.390 --> 00:49:06.950 Simo Hellsten: Help text here, because for one reason 420 00:49:08.010 --> 00:49:11.829 Simo Hellsten: it refers to the old term that was used 421 00:49:12.250 --> 00:49:15.020 Simo Hellsten: for the image dimensions. 422 00:49:15.630 --> 00:49:21.509 Simo Hellsten: So it's calling member solutions. But we were able to takes that a couple of weeks ago. 423 00:49:22.550 --> 00:49:24.060 Simo Hellsten: So that was merged. 424 00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:29.190 Simo Hellsten: So no, no, it's the fields. Field labels are actually saying dimensions. 425 00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:31.520 Simo Hellsten: The variables are still wrong. 426 00:49:31.910 --> 00:49:33.569 Simo Hellsten: But anyways. 427 00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:35.700 Simo Hellsten: I'm thinking about that. 428 00:49:36.740 --> 00:49:52.150 Simo Hellsten: What what we should call this image size policy because it feels a bit as a non-native English speaker, it feels a bit kind of up technical. And then. this help text. 429 00:49:52.900 --> 00:50:02.740 Simo Hellsten: It's kind of I feel it's too too much information here, because it's already included in the options. most of it. 430 00:50:03.110 --> 00:50:06.989 Simo Hellsten: And also it's very specific specific to mention that 431 00:50:07.350 --> 00:50:09.340 Simo Hellsten: recycling images 432 00:50:09.380 --> 00:50:11.660 cause loss of exif data 433 00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:16.989 Simo Hellsten: and not maybe mention that it was it. Also. 434 00:50:17.150 --> 00:50:22.490 Simo Hellsten: courses source of image data. If it's there's the percentage 435 00:50:22.750 --> 00:50:33.899 Simo Hellsten: for Jpeg. that is you. So it's kind of exit data. It's it's not the main problem for most people. So my idea was to 436 00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:38.880 Simo Hellsten: maybe have in in the help text 437 00:50:39.120 --> 00:50:49.680 Simo Hellsten: as the last part link to the page where we have that percentage setting for 438 00:50:51.540 --> 00:50:57.159 Simo Hellsten: image like, I think it's Gd. For the percentage of 439 00:50:57.360 --> 00:50:59.969 Simo Hellsten: how how much loss it it should 440 00:51:00.180 --> 00:51:03.870 Simo Hellsten: adds to that. What's kind of the said no, it's 441 00:51:04.280 --> 00:51:09.700 Simo Hellsten: by quality setting percent percentage for scaling scaling images. 442 00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:11.430 Simo Hellsten: And 443 00:51:12.010 --> 00:51:15.180 Benji Fisher: okay, before you go any further. 444 00:51:15.260 --> 00:51:23.180 Benji Fisher: In the chat, Aaron made a quick suggestion. Imagery, size, strategy rather than imagery, size, policy. 445 00:51:23.450 --> 00:51:35.879 Benji Fisher: But but before we continue I'd I'd like to give people a chance to ask questions. Is is the context clear. Could could you show us again how to navigate to 446 00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:38.010 Benji Fisher: settings page we're talking about? 447 00:51:38.950 --> 00:51:51.240 Simo Hellsten: I didn't have at the moment my own site instance, and that link to the one you had that was in the chat before I switch devices. 448 00:51:51.550 --> 00:51:53.899 Simo Hellsten: Oh, so you need the link again. 449 00:51:57.550 --> 00:51:58.440 Benji Fisher: Sorry. 450 00:52:13.450 --> 00:52:16.050 Benji Fisher: and I think so I'm 451 00:52:17.170 --> 00:52:26.220 Benji Fisher: on a site that uses media like the site is the Amounti demo. So it does. You have to edit the media type or need the image media type. 452 00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:27.899 Benji Fisher: and then 453 00:52:28.730 --> 00:52:36.610 Benji Fisher: manage fields and and the edit these settings for the image field. 454 00:52:41.370 --> 00:52:42.870 Benji Fisher: Least, I think that's 455 00:52:45.030 --> 00:52:47.689 Simo Hellsten: so. I think article has 456 00:52:48.430 --> 00:52:51.579 Simo Hellsten: do so. Here's media Image, and then 457 00:52:52.870 --> 00:52:54.250 Simo Hellsten: editing here. 458 00:52:55.270 --> 00:52:57.230 Benji Fisher: Oh, it's where the media is used. 459 00:53:01.770 --> 00:53:02.650 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 460 00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:06.180 Simo Hellsten: no. 461 00:53:09.580 --> 00:53:14.199 Benji Fisher: I thought it would be on the settings for the image media type. 462 00:53:15.450 --> 00:53:16.370 Simo Hellsten: Oh, yeah. 463 00:53:20.430 --> 00:53:24.190 Simo Hellsten: yeah, that's where it is. Yeah. 464 00:53:26.380 --> 00:53:27.230 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 465 00:53:28.590 --> 00:53:29.819 Simo Hellsten: So here. 466 00:53:32.270 --> 00:53:33.780 Simo Hellsten: And here's image 467 00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:45.910 Benji Fisher: currently, we have the maximum and minimum image dimensions. And I don't 468 00:53:46.040 --> 00:53:48.499 Benji Fisher: see any options for 469 00:53:49.110 --> 00:53:55.129 Simo Hellsten: resizing. So so I think that's an entirely new option being added. Resizing is default. 470 00:53:56.500 --> 00:54:12.039 Simo Hellsten: If it exists maximum mid image dimensions. so that what we are adding here in that issue is the option to refuse to resize. and instead refuse to like a reduce upload of large to large images. 471 00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:14.029 Simo Hellsten: Right? So that's the change. 472 00:54:15.540 --> 00:54:25.489 Benji Fisher: Okay, thanks. Thanks. For given that context. Does anyone else have questions at this point about what? What problem we're trying to solve. 473 00:54:27.220 --> 00:54:33.460 Benji Fisher: what this new option does. As as Sima said it, it provides an option. 474 00:54:34.600 --> 00:54:43.770 Simo Hellsten: To yeah. Refuse refuse images with bigger dimensions that are set maximum. 475 00:54:44.150 --> 00:54:46.589 Simo Hellsten: So basically, it would be the same behavior 476 00:54:46.680 --> 00:54:49.189 Simo Hellsten: that if that if somebody 477 00:54:49.290 --> 00:54:55.630 Simo Hellsten: tries to upload file that wha where the file size is larger than allowed. 478 00:54:56.020 --> 00:55:00.600 Simo Hellsten: So if the dimensions are bigger than allowed, then it would reject. 479 00:55:00.700 --> 00:55:01.790 Simo Hellsten: yeah, okay. 480 00:55:03.160 --> 00:55:13.459 Benji Fisher: okay. I don't see any questions. So so go ahead and and go back to the screenshot, and we can discuss the text for this new option. 481 00:55:15.630 --> 00:55:19.909 Benji Fisher: And I guess both the the label of the option 482 00:55:21.670 --> 00:55:23.139 as well as 483 00:55:25.110 --> 00:55:34.929 Benji Fisher: that long help text which is copied from the current version. So Aaron suggested in imagery, size, strategy rather than policy. 484 00:55:37.520 --> 00:55:45.300 Benji Fisher: I guess my first thought is something like what to do 485 00:55:46.420 --> 00:55:49.320 Benji Fisher: if the image is too large. 486 00:55:49.470 --> 00:55:55.689 Simo Hellsten: But of course that's that's a terrible way, but that's too many words. Any other suggestions. 487 00:55:59.010 --> 00:56:01.080 Simo Hellsten: Umhm. Maybe 488 00:56:01.270 --> 00:56:02.750 Simo Hellsten: handling 489 00:56:04.510 --> 00:56:08.380 Simo Hellsten: images handling larger images. 490 00:56:10.070 --> 00:56:15.070 Simo Hellsten: but if if it's larger it does it have enough context. 491 00:56:15.170 --> 00:56:20.650 Simo Hellsten: It has maximum image dimensions and handling larger images. 492 00:56:29.730 --> 00:56:31.909 Benji Fisher: Yeah, and and the new option 493 00:56:33.340 --> 00:56:38.930 Benji Fisher: does only affect the maximum image size. It doesn't 494 00:56:39.050 --> 00:56:43.139 Benji Fisher: have any effect on the minimum size. So, yeah, I think it makes sense. 495 00:56:44.610 --> 00:56:52.480 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. And according to the help text, we have on the screenshot with minimum image dimensions. The default is 496 00:56:52.600 --> 00:57:01.860 Simo Hellsten: to reject the image. So the minimum doesn't allow resizing. And the maximum doesn't currently allow rejecting. 497 00:57:18.020 --> 00:57:30.000 Benji Fisher: Of course, the text larger images is in each of 2 radio buttons. So maybe we don't need to repeat it in the title, but but I do kind of like hat 498 00:57:30.310 --> 00:57:34.640 Benji Fisher: having the title mention larger images. 499 00:57:36.180 --> 00:57:47.959 Simo Hellsten: we could have handling larger images 500 00:57:48.920 --> 00:57:51.199 Simo Hellsten: and then resize image 501 00:57:51.980 --> 00:57:55.970 Simo Hellsten: and reject image with an error message. 502 00:57:56.490 --> 00:58:03.400 Simo Hellsten: We could remove the larger from the options. But but how? Yeah, it's that. 503 00:58:04.750 --> 00:58:07.729 Simo Hellsten: keeping in mind next, extra 504 00:58:08.030 --> 00:58:14.989 Benji Fisher: keeping in mind, James, comment from the previous issue, we should probably stick with nouns for for these labels. 505 00:58:15.330 --> 00:58:19.100 Benji Fisher: so policy or strategy. Those are both nouns. 506 00:58:19.710 --> 00:58:20.420 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 507 00:58:20.720 --> 00:58:27.970 Benji Fisher: but maybe let's look at the help text, which is too long. Maybe it's easier to come up with a good suggestion there. 508 00:58:30.780 --> 00:58:31.520 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 509 00:58:32.440 --> 00:58:34.370 Simo Hellsten: So maybe I'll 510 00:58:35.570 --> 00:58:37.580 Simo Hellsten: go back to they should. I had 511 00:58:39.180 --> 00:58:40.620 Simo Hellsten: some notes there. 512 00:59:01.210 --> 00:59:04.770 Simo Hellsten: So yeah. well, I think that 513 00:59:04.860 --> 00:59:10.650 Simo Hellsten: options explain a lot more than the just adding the number. So it's kind of 514 00:59:10.670 --> 00:59:12.540 Simo Hellsten: most self-explanatory. 515 00:59:12.760 --> 00:59:23.990 Simo Hellsten: And I think the exif detail exif, it's a kind of detail that maybe shouldn't be there. and 516 00:59:26.530 --> 00:59:32.620 Simo Hellsten: yeah. I was thinking that as it says, resize. 517 00:59:33.710 --> 00:59:43.379 Simo Hellsten: But resizing can be done in different ways. So we could maybe be more specific there to say scale proportionally. 518 00:59:45.710 --> 00:59:51.300 Simo Hellsten: so that? 519 00:59:54.580 --> 00:59:55.430 Simo Hellsten: Yes. 520 01:00:01.610 --> 01:00:17.419 Simo Hellsten: So it's it's kind of kind of obvious. If I will look at word by word. So choosing is, is is it something that we should do like? Say, choose. because it's all obvious? Obviously a choice. So what should we explain what the 521 01:00:17.810 --> 01:00:19.880 Simo Hellsten: choices mean? 522 01:00:21.850 --> 01:00:29.610 Benji Fisher: Personally, I agree with you that the 2 options are self explanatory, and we don't need 523 01:00:30.190 --> 01:00:34.950 Benji Fisher: to repeat that I noticed that on the existing 524 01:00:35.550 --> 01:00:37.970 Benji Fisher: page. 525 01:00:38.310 --> 01:00:43.420 Benji Fisher: that comment about exif data is already there. 526 01:00:44.690 --> 01:00:45.410 and 527 01:00:46.260 --> 01:00:51.180 Benji Fisher: and a a a under the the maximum image dimensions. 528 01:00:51.420 --> 01:00:52.750 Benji Fisher: So 529 01:00:52.950 --> 01:00:58.339 Benji Fisher: so maybe, instead of moving that text to the new option. 530 01:00:58.750 --> 01:01:00.940 Benji Fisher: we should leave it 531 01:01:01.740 --> 01:01:06.100 Benji Fisher: where it is. Under maximum image dimensions. 532 01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:20.360 Simo Hellsten: But the maximum image dimensions don't necessarily result in resizing. 533 01:01:20.590 --> 01:01:23.610 Simo Hellsten: So if it's rejected, then nothing is lost. 534 01:01:25.210 --> 01:01:26.669 Simo Hellsten: But I'm thinking that 535 01:01:27.290 --> 01:01:31.440 Simo Hellsten: it might be if we would link to. 536 01:01:31.460 --> 01:01:33.130 Simo Hellsten: Where is the shared 537 01:01:34.180 --> 01:01:35.520 Simo Hellsten: if we would 538 01:01:35.660 --> 01:01:39.539 Simo Hellsten: link about image quality changes 539 01:01:41.310 --> 01:01:48.720 Simo Hellsten: configuration. Media media image toolkit where it set, where is Jpeg quality set. 540 01:01:48.940 --> 01:01:51.690 Simo Hellsten: So here it it changes like 541 01:01:52.060 --> 01:01:59.500 Simo Hellsten: means that resizing images will reuse image quality into this. 542 01:01:59.650 --> 01:02:03.950 Simo Hellsten: And we could also here mention that resizing 543 01:02:04.190 --> 01:02:06.620 Simo Hellsten: removes exif data 544 01:02:07.350 --> 01:02:13.289 Simo Hellsten: because it's not mentioned here. And if it that's relevant to someone. Maybe 545 01:02:13.630 --> 01:02:15.170 it could be mentioned here. 546 01:02:17.220 --> 01:02:27.070 Benji Fisher: In the chat, Ralph suggests. changing the labels on the 2 options. So the first one is resize to maximum dimensions. 547 01:02:27.080 --> 01:02:30.700 Simo Hellsten: and the second is reject images with an error message. 548 01:02:32.390 --> 01:02:34.860 Simo Hellsten: and Aaron suggests drop 549 01:02:35.350 --> 01:02:42.930 Benji Fisher: with error message. So it's just reject image and and language. 550 01:02:42.940 --> 01:02:50.090 Benji Fisher: We don't need to explicitly say, or I'll just read. This comment is written, I think it should be implied that an error will show. 551 01:02:50.230 --> 01:02:53.059 Benji Fisher: and we got a thumbs up from someone from Ralph. 552 01:02:55.380 --> 01:03:01.969 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I agree. The error message message should be with error. Message should be dropped 553 01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:07.669 Simo Hellsten: but with that resize to maximum dimensions, I think. 554 01:03:08.650 --> 01:03:10.219 Simo Hellsten: I think it. 555 01:03:11.560 --> 01:03:15.630 Simo Hellsten: I would maybe like to have that somewhere. Explain that 556 01:03:16.290 --> 01:03:21.449 Simo Hellsten: resize. It doesn't resize to maximum with a maximum 557 01:03:21.470 --> 01:03:26.120 Simo Hellsten: height. but it resizes proportionally to that. 558 01:03:27.740 --> 01:03:29.990 Simo Hellsten: so that might be mentioned somewhere. 559 01:03:30.530 --> 01:03:37.309 Benji Fisher: Okay, I'm afraid we only have 1 min left in the hour. And Ralph has raised his hand. So, Ralph, if you could. 560 01:03:37.870 --> 01:03:46.170 Ralf Koller: Just the only reason why I edit the resize maximum dimensions was because larger images is sort of 561 01:03:46.660 --> 01:03:54.709 Ralf Koller: not clear from a user perspective. I was wouldn't be also that clear what it means, actually. And so I thought. 562 01:03:55.630 --> 01:04:01.050 Ralf Koller: change the routing slightly and move the larger images out. That was the reason. 563 01:04:01.520 --> 01:04:14.760 Benji Fisher: Actually, I don't like your proposal, Ralph, because that suggests that medium sized images would be scaled up to maximum dimensions. At least, that's what it suggests to me. So II think I prefer the current proposal. 564 01:04:16.350 --> 01:04:22.459 Benji Fisher: Okay, I'm afraid we we don't have time to come up with a firm recommendation here. We can 565 01:04:22.940 --> 01:04:24.550 Benji Fisher: either come back to this 566 01:04:25.860 --> 01:04:44.269 Aaron McHale: next week. Go ahead. Go ahead, Erin. Just yeah. I just just real quick. Actually, just before we finish up just to say that for Ralph and anyone else who wants to to jump into a a a call afterwards. If we maybe start like 567 01:04:44.300 --> 01:04:46.550 Aaron McHale: quarter past or half past. If that's okay. 568 01:04:49.230 --> 01:04:57.240 Aaron McHale: we can decide in slack. But I'll put a message in the slide channel. So. okay, cool. Okay. 569 01:04:58.650 --> 01:05:14.060 Simo Hellsten: yeah, this is unrelated to what we're talking about. So sorry I didn't mean to interrupt your flow, Benji. I could make some suggestions based on this discussion so that we could continue in slack 570 01:05:15.080 --> 01:05:23.970 Benji Fisher: great thanks so much. And and I'll comment on the other issue. Thank you all for coming. I'll be back again next week hopefully. Make it better. 571 01:05:24.920 --> 01:05:29.379 Simo Hellsten: Thanks everyone. Yeah, thanks. Everyone have a nice weekend. 572 01:05:30.410 --> 01:05:31.080 Benji Fisher: Bye.