WEBVTT 65 00:09:59.260 --> 00:10:05.109 Benji Fisher: welcome. This is the drupal usability meeting for December fifteenth, 2,023. 66 00:10:05.330 --> 00:10:08.750 Benji Fisher: I'm Benji Fisher, sharing my screen and moderating 67 00:10:08.770 --> 00:10:15.870 Benji Fisher: and also present, are Aaron Mikhail, Emma Harle, Ralph Kohler, Simo Helston, and Thomas Howell. 68 00:10:16.250 --> 00:10:23.620 Benji Fisher: So I've got open the issue for today's meeting, which is number 3, 4, 0 69 00:10:23.740 --> 00:10:25.540 Benji Fisher: 5, 3, 6, 2, 70 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:30.870 Benji Fisher: I'd like to start by giving a little demo. 71 00:10:31.580 --> 00:10:41.239 Benji Fisher: actually, in the screen. You can't see what I'm going to do is check out the 10.2 point X branch. 72 00:10:48.140 --> 00:10:51.130 Benji Fisher: Oh, this is going to take a second 73 00:11:09.380 --> 00:11:13.490 Benji Fisher: and 10.2 is going to be released today. 74 00:11:14.910 --> 00:11:27.590 Benji Fisher: and what I've navigated to here is admin structure, content types. And then manage fields or content type. 75 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:35.139 Benji Fisher: So the current state of the add field experiences. 76 00:11:35.810 --> 00:11:46.919 Benji Fisher: you create. Well, first of all, if you click on reuse and existing field, you get this new mobile form. If you click on create a new field, which is what I want to focus on. 77 00:11:47.020 --> 00:11:50.970 Benji Fisher: You don't get a modal but you get this form. 78 00:11:51.580 --> 00:11:56.510 Benji Fisher: And we've previously observed several usability issues. 79 00:11:56.820 --> 00:12:04.829 Benji Fisher: For instance, if you click on plain text, which is not single field type, but group of field types. 80 00:12:04.980 --> 00:12:06.479 Benji Fisher: if you click on that 81 00:12:06.690 --> 00:12:17.650 Benji Fisher: These options appear at the bottom of the screen. and if your screen isn't large enough, or if there are too many options you might not notice that 82 00:12:17.900 --> 00:12:29.450 Benji Fisher: another option is that it's easy to miss the required label field. just because the rest of the screen 83 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:36.679 Benji Fisher: is so visually appealing. let's see, number, I think, has 3 options 84 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:44.599 Benji Fisher: waiting times just to. So, anyway, that's the current state 85 00:12:44.830 --> 00:12:52.000 Benji Fisher: with 10.2. And unfortunately, that is what is going to be released later today. 86 00:12:52.520 --> 00:12:55.729 Benji Fisher: give me a minute. 87 00:12:58.380 --> 00:13:03.510 Benji Fisher: Oh, by the way, I'll give in the zoom, chat. A link 88 00:13:04.790 --> 00:13:07.479 Benji Fisher: to the site I'm using as usual, you can 89 00:13:07.910 --> 00:13:11.440 Benji Fisher: log in with Admin slash admin. 90 00:13:26.490 --> 00:13:31.030 Benji Fisher: So now I'm going to go back here 91 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:35.230 Benji Fisher: and start over again with the create new field 92 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:48.759 Benji Fisher: and this just got committed a few hours ago. So it's not going to be in the release of 1110.2. But this is what we will have going forward. The label field is gone from this screen. 93 00:13:49.490 --> 00:13:57.659 Benji Fisher: if you click on one of the options, nothing happens until you submit the form. 94 00:13:58.750 --> 00:14:04.940 Benji Fisher: And then you get this screen where you can enter the label and choose one of the 2 options. 95 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:17.390 Benji Fisher: there are still problems. There's still a lot of room for improvement. Like Simo in particular, pointed out, there are some 96 00:14:17.790 --> 00:14:23.989 Benji Fisher: usability and accessibility issues with this formatting of radio buttons. 97 00:14:24.010 --> 00:14:27.380 Benji Fisher: Ralph pointed out. additional 98 00:14:27.420 --> 00:14:31.059 Benji Fisher: usability issues with 99 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:35.500 Benji Fisher: a voiceover on on Macos. 100 00:14:35.780 --> 00:14:42.819 Benji Fisher: it's also awkward if you choose. Something that is a single field, not a group of fields. 101 00:14:43.890 --> 00:14:50.539 Benji Fisher: you get a form with just the label element, which is. yeah, I think 102 00:14:51.460 --> 00:14:53.110 Benji Fisher: not great to have 103 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:57.030 Benji Fisher: a whole screen just just for for one element. 104 00:14:57.190 --> 00:15:09.980 Benji Fisher: but I think we're finally in a position where we actually will make more rapid progress going forward. Having 105 00:15:10.490 --> 00:15:15.409 Benji Fisher: done this intermediate step. Any questions or comments on that. 106 00:15:23.610 --> 00:15:25.500 Aaron McHale: Maybe when 107 00:15:25.620 --> 00:15:28.339 Aaron McHale: this is all in a model, it will be 108 00:15:28.580 --> 00:15:35.129 Aaron McHale: you know better in terms of you know when you have a single farm with just the label element. 109 00:15:36.150 --> 00:15:41.049 Aaron McHale: But I think it's also okay in the interest of consistency. So 110 00:15:41.860 --> 00:15:45.740 Aaron McHale: you know. sometimes it's a give and take. 111 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:47.449 Benji Fisher: Yeah, go ahead, Ralph. 112 00:15:49.490 --> 00:15:57.930 Ralf Koller: Wrong button. But wasn't the idea also to move the label field to the next screen over 113 00:15:59.070 --> 00:16:02.439 Ralf Koller: and that way? Such a case like 114 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:07.099 Ralf Koller: or a page with only a field is impossible. 115 00:16:07.910 --> 00:16:09.149 Ralf Koller: Only a label field. 116 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:17.070 Benji Fisher: Yeah, II think 2 of the next steps are to do what Aaron said is is to put this into a mobile window and 117 00:16:18.470 --> 00:16:23.160 Benji Fisher: and another step is to take this label field 118 00:16:27.990 --> 00:16:33.919 Benji Fisher: and remove it from that page, and just just let you enter it on this page. 119 00:16:34.870 --> 00:16:36.030 Ralf Koller: Yeah, 120 00:16:36.410 --> 00:16:38.080 Benji Fisher: so II think. 121 00:16:38.910 --> 00:16:42.790 Benji Fisher: I think those are both pretty manageable 122 00:16:43.370 --> 00:16:48.299 Benji Fisher: issues. and and the key thing is that we've 123 00:16:49.400 --> 00:17:00.309 Benji Fisher: we've broken up the issues rather than trying to do it all at once, which is what was really slowing everything down. 124 00:17:00.870 --> 00:17:04.200 Benji Fisher: a technical point 125 00:17:04.530 --> 00:17:09.210 Benji Fisher: is that if you. we're look at this yeah, URL, 126 00:17:09.589 --> 00:17:12.179 Benji Fisher: which basically no one ever does. 127 00:17:12.390 --> 00:17:15.649 Benji Fisher: But this first step of the form 128 00:17:16.180 --> 00:17:24.010 Benji Fisher: and the second step of the form are actually the same. URL, so it's it's a two-step form rather than 2 separate forms. 129 00:17:24.069 --> 00:17:25.560 Benji Fisher: and that has 130 00:17:26.560 --> 00:17:37.780 Benji Fisher: probably doesn't make very much difference but it it does mean that. you know, the implementation is a lot simpler than what was previously being worked on. 131 00:17:38.890 --> 00:17:44.020 Benji Fisher: So I'm I'm very pleased that we're we're finally making progress on this, and I only wish 132 00:17:44.330 --> 00:17:47.729 Benji Fisher: we had gotten it in time for 10.2, because 133 00:17:47.930 --> 00:17:51.000 Benji Fisher: I really think that 134 00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:55.010 Benji Fisher: having to wait another 6 months is a problem. 135 00:17:56.970 --> 00:17:59.960 Benji Fisher: Okay, there 136 00:18:01.560 --> 00:18:04.990 Benji Fisher: aren't any other questions on that 137 00:18:05.800 --> 00:18:08.880 Benji Fisher: We do have a request. 138 00:18:09.150 --> 00:18:18.700 Benji Fisher: since today is the the global contrib day for the Claro theme. There is one issue that we've been asked to look at. 139 00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:28.370 Benji Fisher: Does anyone here have anything else they'd like to look at? Thanks for posting the link in the zoom. Chat. 140 00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:45.790 Benji Fisher: So this is issue 3, 3, 9, 8, 2, 7, 7, Claro content. Editing area is too narrow. and I'm afraid the 141 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:51.950 Benji Fisher: steps to reproduce are a little vague, so maybe you can help me out here. 142 00:18:52.390 --> 00:18:58.950 Benji Fisher: The problem is that the content editing area is too narrow when using vertical tabs. 143 00:18:59.420 --> 00:19:00.640 Benji Fisher: So if we look. 144 00:19:01.020 --> 00:19:05.009 Benji Fisher: here's this screenshot, I suppose that's what we're supposed to be doing. 145 00:19:05.450 --> 00:19:16.200 Benji Fisher: so this looks like a node edit form. It has the revision, log message, menu settings and so forth in the right sidebar. 146 00:19:16.700 --> 00:19:23.850 Benji Fisher: so is this what the node editing form looks like? 147 00:19:24.580 --> 00:19:25.740 Benji Fisher: Currently. 148 00:19:29.060 --> 00:19:31.690 Benji Fisher: let's go to 149 00:19:33.270 --> 00:19:36.169 Benji Fisher: content and edit an article. 150 00:19:37.620 --> 00:19:46.750 Benji Fisher: but an English article. Let's hear it for carrots. 151 00:19:48.430 --> 00:19:56.280 Benji Fisher: so I have the right sidebar. I have the Admin toolbar. But go ahead, Ralph. 152 00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:57.860 Benji Fisher: or is that 153 00:19:58.990 --> 00:20:07.340 Benji Fisher: I haven't dismissed the little notification you raised your hand a few minutes ago. This is not what the screenshot is showing, is it? 154 00:20:09.650 --> 00:20:13.930 Benji Fisher: Language? Is this using some? 155 00:20:19.220 --> 00:20:21.510 Benji Fisher: It's distinguished. Hatch. 156 00:20:24.600 --> 00:20:27.059 Benji Fisher: Ralph, go ahead. 157 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:33.849 Ralf Koller: It's basically the width of the edit. 158 00:20:35.420 --> 00:20:44.680 Ralf Koller: Edit fee of the the main content area is widened with a patch. Basically. I've applied a patch. 159 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:51.689 Ralf Koller: I have played a patch and we can take a look at it side by side if you want to. 160 00:20:52.530 --> 00:20:53.710 Benji Fisher: I'm sure 161 00:20:55.710 --> 00:20:57.050 Ralf Koller: have to lower my end. 162 00:21:00.130 --> 00:21:07.370 Benji Fisher: I'm just a little confused that I can't get the same screen that's shown in the screenshot. 163 00:21:26.290 --> 00:21:32.350 Benji Fisher: I don't see a link yet in zoom chat. So working on that. 164 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:34.680 Ralf Koller: okay, detection. 165 00:21:40.310 --> 00:21:47.400 Ralf Koller: Or okay, I send it over that way. You only see the Vp 166 00:21:47.560 --> 00:21:51.309 Ralf Koller: hatch applied, but I had a second 167 00:21:51.690 --> 00:21:56.169 Ralf Koller: tab open with the patch not applied in that way. Switching over. The 168 00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:58.719 Ralf Koller: difference is easier visible. 169 00:22:27.540 --> 00:22:31.129 Benji Fisher: Okay, so I'll just switch between 2 tabs a little bit. 170 00:22:38.810 --> 00:22:41.319 or if you create a new node 171 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.450 Ralf Koller: on the umami one, then it might be 172 00:22:49.750 --> 00:22:50.660 Ralf Koller: similar. 173 00:22:57.820 --> 00:23:01.150 Benji Fisher: but the edit area is just a little wider 174 00:23:01.590 --> 00:23:05.690 Benji Fisher: in this patch in in this window, which has the patch applied. 175 00:23:10.140 --> 00:23:18.140 Benji Fisher: I guess. Notice 176 00:23:18.230 --> 00:23:24.930 Benji Fisher: in in my site this one I have Umami installed. So we have a media 177 00:23:25.660 --> 00:23:30.240 Benji Fisher: widget. and Ralph's side 178 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:37.730 Benji Fisher: has standard profile installed. So it has an image. So that's an easy way to see. Figure out which one you're currently looking at. 179 00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:48.589 Benji Fisher: What does it look like on 180 00:23:49.320 --> 00:23:51.039 Benji Fisher: a narrow screen? 181 00:23:55.760 --> 00:24:00.189 Benji Fisher: So this is Ralph's site, with the patch applied 182 00:24:00.230 --> 00:24:04.259 Benji Fisher: and content area takes up 183 00:24:05.760 --> 00:24:08.910 Benji Fisher: basically the whole width and 184 00:24:11.610 --> 00:24:17.649 Benji Fisher: and sidebar gets pushed down to the bottom page. Probably that looks pretty similar. 185 00:24:26.590 --> 00:24:27.910 Benji Fisher: So on 186 00:24:29.470 --> 00:24:32.190 Benji Fisher: narrow screen, they look same 187 00:24:34.630 --> 00:24:36.290 on a wider screen. 188 00:24:36.900 --> 00:24:39.850 Benji Fisher: The editing area is just a little larger. 189 00:24:40.570 --> 00:24:42.620 Benji Fisher: Let me 190 00:24:44.590 --> 00:24:47.390 Benji Fisher: see, on an intermediate width screen. 191 00:24:51.850 --> 00:24:55.649 Benji Fisher: This is the same layout, I think as the 192 00:24:57.400 --> 00:24:59.170 Benji Fisher: that's the narrow screen. 193 00:24:59.800 --> 00:25:04.799 Benji Fisher: but even here I think we're 194 00:25:05.100 --> 00:25:06.770 Benji Fisher: with the patch applied. 195 00:25:08.070 --> 00:25:11.939 Benji Fisher: We have a little more editing room than we do here. 196 00:25:17.980 --> 00:25:26.090 Benji Fisher: and Ralph says in the chat, it's 115 characters without patch, and 129 characters with the patch applied roughly. 197 00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:42.580 Benji Fisher: So I wonder how much of. 198 00:25:44.540 --> 00:25:46.490 Benji Fisher: I'm I'm still a little 199 00:25:48.260 --> 00:25:52.899 Benji Fisher: concerned that I can't reproduce the screenshots. But maybe 200 00:25:53.580 --> 00:25:54.890 Benji Fisher: I know how. 201 00:25:55.170 --> 00:26:02.189 Benji Fisher: so let's go to configuration 202 00:26:03.250 --> 00:26:05.380 Benji Fisher: content authoring 203 00:26:06.020 --> 00:26:08.160 Benji Fisher: text formats and editors. 204 00:26:08.210 --> 00:26:14.980 Benji Fisher: and I think this might be one of the new features in 10.2 that I haven't had a chance to look at. 205 00:26:15.620 --> 00:26:21.870 Benji Fisher: There's something about 206 00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:23.510 Benji Fisher: walk 207 00:26:24.620 --> 00:26:25.720 Benji Fisher: editing 208 00:26:29.500 --> 00:26:31.580 Benji Fisher: source system list media 209 00:27:05.970 --> 00:27:06.780 on that 210 00:27:08.390 --> 00:27:09.340 Benji Fisher: -oh. 211 00:27:10.800 --> 00:27:15.329 Benji Fisher: underline code block. Strike through 212 00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:22.520 Benji Fisher: show blocks. 213 00:27:24.500 --> 00:27:25.830 Benji Fisher: See what it is. 214 00:27:39.070 --> 00:27:43.790 Benji Fisher: Enable a plugin that supports creating stand tags. I thought that 215 00:27:45.510 --> 00:27:46.950 Benji Fisher: I had done that. 216 00:28:40.860 --> 00:28:42.559 Benji Fisher: That didn't work. 217 00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:12.719 Benji Fisher: All right. I'm just going to have to give up on this guy 218 00:29:14.070 --> 00:29:20.670 Benji Fisher: heading with styles source editing 219 00:29:24.770 --> 00:29:25.610 Benji Fisher: this. 220 00:29:28.120 --> 00:29:29.500 Benji Fisher: That's what I needed. 221 00:29:32.630 --> 00:29:33.560 Benji Fisher: where 222 00:29:33.800 --> 00:29:35.280 language? 223 00:29:49.150 --> 00:29:50.800 Benji Fisher: Oh, you load. 224 00:29:59.210 --> 00:30:00.190 Benji Fisher: And 225 00:30:07.760 --> 00:30:10.690 Benji Fisher: this is why we want steps to produce. 226 00:30:18.840 --> 00:30:19.880 Benji Fisher: It's just 227 00:30:20.630 --> 00:30:21.380 network. 228 00:30:22.670 --> 00:30:26.259 Benji Fisher: Think it's buggy. Think it's not me alright 229 00:30:28.220 --> 00:30:32.500 Benji Fisher: with all of that, if I reload this edit page. 230 00:30:32.570 --> 00:30:35.930 Benji Fisher: thanks. 231 00:30:39.180 --> 00:30:43.129 Benji Fisher: Still, don't see the layout that was in that screenshot. 232 00:30:48.510 --> 00:30:59.310 Benji Fisher: Still don't get these things in the left sidebar. Oh, how to get those? but I think probably the 233 00:30:59.320 --> 00:31:00.560 Benji Fisher: wider 234 00:31:02.230 --> 00:31:08.130 Benji Fisher: main content area or narrowing these margins a little bit is probably a good idea. 235 00:31:08.260 --> 00:31:11.900 Benji Fisher: Does anyone have other thoughts? 236 00:31:26.600 --> 00:31:37.159 Benji Fisher: It's this too cramped. Is there not enough area between the main text box and these things in the sidebar. Thomas, go ahead. 237 00:31:38.840 --> 00:31:48.840 Thomas Howell: To my eye it's a little bit. It gets a little bit busy at that point, because this is, it still appears to be relatively vanilla. 238 00:31:49.730 --> 00:31:52.570 Thomas Howell: I worry. Once people add a lot of 239 00:31:52.750 --> 00:31:57.239 Thomas Howell: stuff into their editing forms. It could get 240 00:31:58.170 --> 00:31:59.480 Thomas Howell: overwhelming. 241 00:32:00.060 --> 00:32:02.479 But that, said I. 242 00:32:03.510 --> 00:32:10.150 Thomas Howell: The bigger issue is, I'm not seeing a huge improvement by doing this, so it's hard to make 243 00:32:10.320 --> 00:32:11.100 Thomas Howell: a 244 00:32:11.210 --> 00:32:17.130 Thomas Howell: real recommendation without those steps to to reproduce. 245 00:32:17.140 --> 00:32:34.379 Thomas Howell: And I think to me that's the bigger issue is, this isn't a big enough improvement for me to say site unseen without being able to see how it addresses the issue that is proposed. If I can't see it fixing that issue, I'm just guessing at this point, and I'd prefer not to do that. 246 00:32:34.560 --> 00:32:35.940 Benji Fisher: Okay, that's fair. 247 00:32:36.520 --> 00:32:37.970 Benji Fisher: Ralph. Go ahead 248 00:32:38.810 --> 00:32:43.790 Ralf Koller: 2 points. At first. I'm I've asked Christina 249 00:32:43.950 --> 00:32:49.810 Ralf Koller: on the Admin Ui slack how to reproduce 250 00:32:50.430 --> 00:33:01.759 Ralf Koller: the scenario from the screenshot, and she said, It's a contract module, I think, but ask for reassurance to such a iggy. But he hasn't answered yet. 251 00:33:01.770 --> 00:33:03.810 Ralf Koller: and the other point 252 00:33:04.380 --> 00:33:07.200 Ralf Koller: my main 253 00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:12.220 Ralf Koller: slight problem with it is 254 00:33:14.470 --> 00:33:25.840 Ralf Koller: from a read, appealing piece. Perspective. The line length gets even la wider and longer, and the ideal, since the 255 00:33:25.870 --> 00:33:35.609 Ralf Koller: Ck editor Field. Isn't resizable. You're stuck with that line length, and 256 00:33:35.770 --> 00:33:45.960 Ralf Koller: the recommendation is around 80 characters, and in before the patch it already had 115, and now 130 and 257 00:33:46.550 --> 00:33:49.730 Ralf Koller: it could get 258 00:33:50.210 --> 00:33:53.420 Ralf Koller: yeah, challenging for some people 259 00:33:55.040 --> 00:34:05.969 Simo Hellsten: there was a bug with. There was a bug with like greed with the main and side column, and at that point we talked a bit about 260 00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:12.869 Simo Hellsten: that. We, because there is always some people who want to have 100% with. And there are some changes coming 261 00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:14.750 Simo Hellsten: to clarol. 262 00:34:14.889 --> 00:34:22.410 Simo Hellsten: And I think, changing the weeds a little bit is something that it should be part of that 263 00:34:22.780 --> 00:34:25.469 Simo Hellsten: kind of a bigger picture 264 00:34:26.900 --> 00:34:31.040 Simo Hellsten: and there is Cardavos 265 00:34:33.020 --> 00:34:39.310 Simo Hellsten: also. If we change a little bit, then is it so that maybe it changes for one, a 266 00:34:39.330 --> 00:34:40.600 Simo Hellsten: certain width 267 00:34:40.610 --> 00:34:45.119 Simo Hellsten: improves what doesn't for another one, and that we need to change it again. 268 00:34:45.600 --> 00:34:49.169 Simo Hellsten: all depending on what the situation is. 269 00:34:50.060 --> 00:34:53.749 Simo Hellsten: But I I'd really like to see what's causing the problem. 270 00:35:07.010 --> 00:35:11.830 Benji Fisher: Let's look at this issue. Is this part of a 271 00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:15.599 Benji Fisher: plan issue? Does it have related issues? 272 00:35:16.170 --> 00:35:28.019 Benji Fisher: so it's related to node form layout looks awkward on wide screens. 273 00:35:28.870 --> 00:35:33.030 Benji Fisher: Oh. and that one's already been fixed. Let me just 274 00:35:34.220 --> 00:35:37.410 Benji Fisher: make this screen very wide and see what happens. 275 00:35:39.410 --> 00:35:50.159 Benji Fisher: so on a very wide screen, we get a lot of white space in the left margin. and the distance between these 2 276 00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:54.450 Benji Fisher: increases, but I think, until recently 277 00:35:54.610 --> 00:36:11.950 Benji Fisher: all the white space was added between the 2 regions, which looked weird, so that one has recently been fixed. I didn't notice that. there seems to be excessive white space when creating new content theme. I think that's basically 278 00:36:12.870 --> 00:36:18.079 Benji Fisher: what does that caller meeting close duplicate? So those 2 are basically the same issue. 279 00:36:18.810 --> 00:36:24.480 Benji Fisher: It's referenced by node form layout looks squeezed. which is a duplicate issue. 280 00:36:25.290 --> 00:36:36.209 Benji Fisher: And it's referenced by wider paragraphs. Content editing form widget which needs work. And that's an issue on the paragraphs. Module. 281 00:36:38.180 --> 00:36:53.450 Benji Fisher: so there is some discussion here, in fact. 282 00:36:55.550 --> 00:36:58.950 Benji Fisher: 20 comments. 283 00:37:06.300 --> 00:37:15.429 Benji Fisher: Ralph, do you have something else to say? Or is your hand just? Oh, no, just in addition to the 284 00:37:15.690 --> 00:37:20.419 Ralf Koller: layout on white screens. I wouldn't consider it fixed 285 00:37:20.620 --> 00:37:27.089 Ralf Koller: on a if I track the window completely on a 36 inch screen. 286 00:37:27.150 --> 00:37:28.650 Ralf Koller: Then 287 00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:34.020 Ralf Koller: the gap between the content area and the sidebar 288 00:37:34.070 --> 00:37:37.339 Ralf Koller: is still pretty wide, and it's challenging 289 00:37:37.710 --> 00:37:40.630 Ralf Koller: to jump in between them. So 290 00:37:41.410 --> 00:37:43.950 Ralf Koller: not sure if I would consider it fixed. 291 00:37:45.630 --> 00:37:55.509 Simo Hellsten: But this is something that there are. There are what like this is not a single issue, I think, because the way that you think my device 292 00:37:56.090 --> 00:37:57.000 Simo Hellsten: for the 293 00:37:58.030 --> 00:38:04.909 Simo Hellsten: those things. I didn't look at them. They had really wide screen spot. 294 00:38:05.050 --> 00:38:10.900 Simo Hellsten: It's kind of a part for the bigger picture. So because this was discussed in. 295 00:38:12.490 --> 00:38:17.129 Simo Hellsten: Don't have the ticket number, but this like. I think, Christina said, that 296 00:38:17.520 --> 00:38:20.520 Simo Hellsten: this weed thing is something that. 297 00:38:20.740 --> 00:38:28.660 Simo Hellsten: So it's not something that should be done by a single ticket, but it should like it done as a whole. 298 00:38:28.750 --> 00:38:32.470 Simo Hellsten: including the paragraph or kind of complex content. 299 00:38:32.530 --> 00:38:35.910 Simo Hellsten: and seem to contact. And so that it's kind of a 300 00:38:36.470 --> 00:38:39.849 Simo Hellsten: can balance between both worlds. 301 00:38:41.040 --> 00:38:45.309 Simo Hellsten: Because, yeah, because it's a. It's there are trade offs for 302 00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:51.659 Simo Hellsten: having nice layout for simple content and nice layout for very complex content. 303 00:38:58.710 --> 00:39:11.129 Benji Fisher: Alright, so. I think Thomas's point is well taken that it's hard to evaluate this issue on its own. 304 00:39:11.750 --> 00:39:12.770 And 305 00:39:14.060 --> 00:39:17.340 Benji Fisher: there should be a plan issue. 306 00:39:17.680 --> 00:39:21.210 Benji Fisher: that includes this and some related work. 307 00:39:22.590 --> 00:39:24.939 Benji Fisher: And I think we should 308 00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:30.440 Benji Fisher: not offer usability opinion until we can see it in the larger context. 309 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:40.099 Benji Fisher: like. Is it enough to install the paragraphs module and and do some configuration to reproduce the screenshot 310 00:39:40.650 --> 00:39:46.049 Benji Fisher: And as Ralph points out. 311 00:39:47.040 --> 00:39:48.210 Benji Fisher: the 312 00:39:53.470 --> 00:39:57.519 Benji Fisher: this area is really too long, too wide. 313 00:39:57.890 --> 00:40:00.649 Benji Fisher: it's already too wide without the patch 314 00:40:01.270 --> 00:40:03.890 Benji Fisher: and gets wider. 315 00:40:05.510 --> 00:40:08.649 Benji Fisher: And then, as as as seema points out. 316 00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:11.579 Benji Fisher: we need to accommodate both 317 00:40:13.080 --> 00:40:21.630 Benji Fisher: this use case where people haven't customized a lot haven't installed the paragraphs, module and more complicated use cases 318 00:40:22.860 --> 00:40:25.560 Benji Fisher: where they seem to be adding, and an extra sidebar. 319 00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:42.950 Benji Fisher: so would anyone like to leave a comment to that effect? Or 320 00:40:43.220 --> 00:40:44.809 Benji Fisher: shall I try to do that. 321 00:40:53.660 --> 00:40:57.049 Benji Fisher: Okay, I think I can. Probably too bad. 322 00:40:58.100 --> 00:41:13.669 Aaron McHale: go ahead. It's not it like I'm I'm sorry I was a bit kind of like distracting from the discussion is going on, so I only picked up some bits of it. I 323 00:41:13.710 --> 00:41:14.870 Aaron McHale: I just don't. 324 00:41:14.940 --> 00:41:31.390 Aaron McHale: I'm just not sure I understand why making it wider is a problem like, I think if you're working on a wide monitor. maybe, but like you can, you generally can shrink the size of your window and also like, if you're. 325 00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:44.330 Aaron McHale: I think it's better to give people the flexibility to view Editor wide, because if their content is gonna be in a quite a wide area. Maybe they want to see how it flows when there's a quite a wide screen, you know. So 326 00:41:44.470 --> 00:41:56.779 Aaron McHale: person, I'm I'm all for like making it wider. I don't think there's a I don't. Are they getting giving people more flexibility about how wide it is is a good thing, so like if it just flows to be as wide as the screen area 327 00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:04.929 Aaron McHale: like that's good, you know. You can shrink the window if you need it smaller. I don't think that's a personally, I don't see that as a problem, but happy to be 328 00:42:05.290 --> 00:42:11.410 Aaron McHale: convinced otherwise. Right? So just to illustrate your point. If if this is 329 00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:13.300 Benji Fisher: too wide. 330 00:42:14.510 --> 00:42:15.270 Benji Fisher: whoops 331 00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:17.370 Benji Fisher: wanted to do 332 00:42:17.730 --> 00:42:26.619 Benji Fisher: anyway. If this, if this seems too wide, you can always click and drag your browser window and get something 333 00:42:27.170 --> 00:42:28.940 Benji Fisher: that seems, yeah. 334 00:42:31.150 --> 00:42:33.340 Benji Fisher: okay, Thomas, go ahead. 335 00:42:33.900 --> 00:42:49.279 Thomas Howell: It's still a lot of unintended consequences. I'm not comfortable with us making that kind of assertion without seeing what it's really supposed to do, and how it works with what it's even supposed to solve. 336 00:42:49.290 --> 00:42:58.530 Thomas Howell: and I think, change just for the sake of change without like. That's not a not a huge improvement to me. I'm I'm 337 00:42:58.660 --> 00:43:08.160 Thomas Howell: struggling to see it as an improvement rather than just kind of a lateral move. It's not better, it's not worse. It's just different. It's busy to me. 338 00:43:08.270 --> 00:43:24.400 Thomas Howell: When you force these things close together, because then it becomes a question to me of arbitrary like, okay, if we wanna make it so that it, rather than having that fixed with sliding, then why don't we have more of a gap to the right like for me, it's too close 339 00:43:24.720 --> 00:43:31.089 Thomas Howell: to the right sidebar, and that it's opening up a can of worms without seeing what it's supposed to fix. 340 00:43:32.670 --> 00:43:38.699 Aaron McHale: but that that's a fair point. Yeah, like we should make sure there's enough visual 341 00:43:38.810 --> 00:43:39.860 Aaron McHale: space. 342 00:43:43.140 --> 00:43:52.150 Aaron McHale: And to be clear, I'm not saying like we like. I think, the the point that was kind of touched around, which is, and I. And there's some that I wanted to raise is like 343 00:43:53.420 --> 00:44:21.770 Aaron McHale: like we have, you know, frankly like there is what 6 of us on this call that's like 6 h. That's like a whole work day, right. We, you know, depending on where you've worked. That like it. Just generally speaking, I we know we've been talking round about the idea of like process, improvement and things for a while. I don't think it's worth our time reviewing issues where there's not really clear steps reproduce, and it hasn't been like we haven't verified that. That is like 344 00:44:21.970 --> 00:44:51.820 Aaron McHale: you know that that how we can present the issue like we somebody, you know, if we've got an issue to present, we should make sure that during the meeting we can use that hour or this case those 6 h as as valuable a as best as possible. So I think if we're just, generally speaking, because before we talked about like, you know, making sure that issues have screenshots, somebody at the last meeting we were talking about, you know, maybe we needed, like some started like we have some templates. Or do we need a new tag? And I think this is just along those lines of like. 345 00:44:52.020 --> 00:45:05.610 Aaron McHale: If we bring an issue to the meeting it, it has to be something that we can use that time as efficiently as possible, you know, cause. Otherwise we can. We can spend time outside of the meeting doing things that are for prep or whatever you know. 346 00:45:07.450 --> 00:45:18.579 Benji Fisher: Oh, okay, so let's in that spirit. pose off discussion on this issue. I'll I'll try to leave a comment summarizing points we've made. Okay. 347 00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:22.570 Benji Fisher: there is another issue. 348 00:45:24.750 --> 00:45:32.119 Benji Fisher: and this is something we discussed on slack earlier in the week. 349 00:45:32.520 --> 00:45:40.350 Benji Fisher: The menu parent link selection. This is issue 1, 4, 2, 350 00:45:40.500 --> 00:45:45.840 Benji Fisher: 8520, so let me show the current state 351 00:45:47.730 --> 00:45:50.010 Benji Fisher: if you go to structure 352 00:45:51.120 --> 00:45:52.550 Benji Fisher: menus. 353 00:45:53.030 --> 00:45:58.620 Benji Fisher: And I always use the administration menu, because that's the 354 00:45:59.240 --> 00:46:06.849 Benji Fisher: biggest to most complicated. and if I wanted to add a new menu link under structure, I can use the new 355 00:46:07.130 --> 00:46:08.579 child, link 356 00:46:09.580 --> 00:46:18.690 Benji Fisher: and we recently redesigned this form. Using the node edit form as as a model. 357 00:46:19.960 --> 00:46:20.690 And 358 00:46:20.990 --> 00:46:22.819 Benji Fisher: we have the parent link 359 00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:27.019 Benji Fisher: and the wait and expanded check 360 00:46:27.270 --> 00:46:29.030 Benji Fisher: checkbox 361 00:46:29.200 --> 00:46:32.769 Benji Fisher: and the description. We've moved all these to the sidebar. 362 00:46:33.560 --> 00:46:36.170 and only the parent link is is shown 363 00:46:37.140 --> 00:46:45.709 Benji Fisher: by default. You have to open the details element to see the other elements. These used to be 364 00:46:46.110 --> 00:46:53.230 Benji Fisher: at the bottom of the main content area. So that's the current state. And then 365 00:46:55.720 --> 00:46:58.510 Benji Fisher: this issue. 366 00:46:59.790 --> 00:47:02.700 Benji Fisher: Have they updated the screenshots? 367 00:47:02.780 --> 00:47:11.620 Benji Fisher: no, no one has updated the screenshots yet. So currently the best. Whoa! 368 00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:14.130 Benji Fisher: I clicked the wrong button. 369 00:47:15.140 --> 00:47:19.450 Benji Fisher: I want to open it to the new tab. Not save the file. 370 00:47:20.540 --> 00:47:24.050 Benji Fisher: The idea is to split up the 371 00:47:24.820 --> 00:47:31.479 Benji Fisher: parent link into 2 parts, one of which just chooses which menu which be in. 372 00:47:31.530 --> 00:47:35.879 Benji Fisher: and the second of which only shows links within that menu. 373 00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:37.670 Benji Fisher: So 374 00:47:45.890 --> 00:47:48.350 Benji Fisher: guess 375 00:47:49.700 --> 00:47:54.410 Benji Fisher: I guess, having used the add, child Link, maybe I don't see that. 376 00:47:54.620 --> 00:47:59.590 Benji Fisher: So let me go back a step to the menu list page and use the add link form. 377 00:48:00.110 --> 00:48:02.259 Benji Fisher: So here I see 378 00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:09.650 Benji Fisher: here I also 379 00:48:11.220 --> 00:48:14.389 Benji Fisher: just see things in the Administration 380 00:48:15.600 --> 00:48:18.560 Benji Fisher: Menu or the Parent League. 381 00:48:22.070 --> 00:48:25.939 Benji Fisher: I think this issue may help you obsolete. 382 00:48:27.660 --> 00:48:39.949 Benji Fisher: I can add a menu from here. I can't add a menu link from here. The only way I can add 383 00:48:40.330 --> 00:48:41.610 Benji Fisher: a menu link. 384 00:48:43.950 --> 00:48:45.480 Benji Fisher: Ralph, go ahead. 385 00:48:46.040 --> 00:48:49.380 Ralf Koller: I've quickly applied the patch to the 386 00:48:50.120 --> 00:48:55.179 Ralf Koller: other side. If you want, you can take a look there and 387 00:48:56.970 --> 00:48:57.900 Ralf Koller: weekly. 388 00:48:58.670 --> 00:48:59.580 Benji Fisher: Here we go 389 00:49:03.140 --> 00:49:06.170 Benji Fisher: manage structure. Oh, you don't have 390 00:49:07.930 --> 00:49:09.790 Benji Fisher: your visual modules applied. 391 00:49:10.230 --> 00:49:11.500 Ralf Koller: Yeah. 392 00:49:11.970 --> 00:49:13.410 Benji Fisher: menus 393 00:49:13.610 --> 00:49:20.329 Aaron McHale: Benji, just just as reminder we we don't see like cause you're sharing a window. We don't see the items in the dropdown when you expand it. 394 00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:22.520 Benji Fisher: Thank you all. 395 00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:26.340 Benji Fisher: I'll try to describe them. 396 00:49:27.570 --> 00:49:31.460 Benji Fisher: So from here I'm again 397 00:49:31.780 --> 00:49:34.799 Benji Fisher: editing the administration menu. If I add a link. 398 00:49:36.160 --> 00:49:47.850 Benji Fisher: this is your site, isn't it. It's it's not through mommy. 399 00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:52.480 Benji Fisher: So the parent link 400 00:49:54.510 --> 00:49:55.920 Benji Fisher: shows me 401 00:49:57.180 --> 00:50:04.209 Benji Fisher: administration. And then everything underneath the administration menu. But it doesn't show me 402 00:50:05.260 --> 00:50:07.909 Benji Fisher: anything outside the administration menu. 403 00:50:13.010 --> 00:50:16.859 Ralf Koller: Yeah. But if you go to an existing menu link there, the 404 00:50:17.650 --> 00:50:22.159 Ralf Koller: menu and the parent link are both available in the sidebar. 405 00:50:25.230 --> 00:50:37.979 Benji Fisher: Okay? So if I edit an existing menu link. but adding new ones, that is the thing I refer to in the thread when we've discussed it during the week. 406 00:50:38.120 --> 00:50:40.130 Ralf Koller: That is the other detail. That is 407 00:50:41.480 --> 00:50:43.960 Ralf Koller: not clear yet from my perspective. 408 00:50:46.260 --> 00:50:50.530 Benji Fisher: Okay, so here it is with the patch applied. And let me 409 00:50:52.070 --> 00:50:54.900 Benji Fisher: again put that side to so by side. 410 00:50:57.540 --> 00:51:01.800 Benji Fisher: And what I have to again is edit an existing menu link. 411 00:51:03.190 --> 00:51:14.820 Benji Fisher: And now, currently the parent is administration. If I expand this I see all the menus starting with the user account menu, and then the administration menu. 412 00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:18.139 Benji Fisher: and then all the others. As I scroll down 413 00:51:19.540 --> 00:51:23.079 Benji Fisher: with the patch applied 414 00:51:24.790 --> 00:51:25.810 Benji Fisher: like, first 415 00:51:26.380 --> 00:51:39.759 Benji Fisher: choose which menu I want, and there's a very manageable list. Administration, main navigation, user, count, menu, footer and tools. those are all the available menus on my site, just 5 of them. 416 00:51:39.970 --> 00:51:45.650 Benji Fisher: And once I choose one of these save main navigation 417 00:51:46.130 --> 00:51:52.189 Benji Fisher: the second select list updates and shows me things within that menu. 418 00:51:52.980 --> 00:52:00.710 Benji Fisher: currently, there's only one item in there, so I can either have the root menu make navigation, or I can have the home element. 419 00:52:01.180 --> 00:52:06.360 Benji Fisher: and if they go back to demonstration menu, I again have many more options here. 420 00:52:09.150 --> 00:52:20.770 Benji Fisher: so any questions about the context, I guess it's important to know that you have to be editing an existing menu item, not creating a new one 421 00:52:20.890 --> 00:52:24.110 Benji Fisher: to see this, any other questions or 422 00:52:24.610 --> 00:52:25.920 Benji Fisher: clarifications. 423 00:52:28.590 --> 00:52:31.080 Simo Hellsten: Well, I suppose this kind of 424 00:52:31.140 --> 00:52:36.390 Simo Hellsten: add small one more. We just when you, when a company needs to move. 425 00:52:36.870 --> 00:52:38.679 Simo Hellsten: I mean uitm from 426 00:52:38.790 --> 00:52:42.720 Simo Hellsten: one menu to another menu menu. So there is a little bit more 427 00:52:42.890 --> 00:52:49.840 Simo Hellsten: we just we just be used. But I guess it's still easier, and it can be also done from that overview page 428 00:52:51.560 --> 00:52:58.550 Simo Hellsten: page. Maybe you have 429 00:52:58.710 --> 00:53:09.680 Simo Hellsten: 2 different admin menus, and you need to move one menu item from one admin admin like but specific admin menu to not to honor that site specific, admin menu. 430 00:53:09.690 --> 00:53:18.379 Simo Hellsten: So then you need to kind of do a little bit more when there are 2 about 2 selected instead of one. But I think it's still 431 00:53:18.390 --> 00:53:21.679 Simo Hellsten: like, might be still easier 432 00:53:22.220 --> 00:53:25.080 Simo Hellsten: just being able to have less content in those. 433 00:53:26.050 --> 00:53:28.050 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I think actually 434 00:53:29.020 --> 00:53:34.189 Benji Fisher: let me open the administration menu. If you want to move things around 435 00:53:35.410 --> 00:53:36.500 Benji Fisher: within 436 00:53:36.640 --> 00:53:40.409 Benji Fisher: the administration menu, you can do that from this page. 437 00:53:40.420 --> 00:53:45.589 Benji Fisher: But if you want to move it to a different menu. I don't think you can do it from this page. 438 00:53:46.140 --> 00:53:47.740 Benji Fisher: I think the 439 00:53:48.010 --> 00:53:53.700 Simo Hellsten: yeah. I think it was some, some of the like very much older versions where you could do that. Okay, but 440 00:53:55.650 --> 00:53:59.299 Benji Fisher: and and that's moving it from one menu to another. 441 00:53:59.540 --> 00:54:02.390 Benji Fisher: Used to be really really hard, because 442 00:54:02.930 --> 00:54:07.919 Benji Fisher: the list of all available options is so long and 443 00:54:07.980 --> 00:54:12.039 Benji Fisher: too bad. You can't see it in zoom. But there are a lot of things here 444 00:54:12.350 --> 00:54:13.760 Benji Fisher: as I scroll. 445 00:54:14.070 --> 00:54:21.530 Benji Fisher: and and it's now quite easy with this patch to move it from the administration menu to say the footer, menu. 446 00:54:21.970 --> 00:54:23.440 Benji Fisher: Aaron, go ahead. 447 00:54:24.700 --> 00:54:37.850 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I was gonna say that, like, I think this is overall improvement and the fact that it gives you a lot more certainty when you're moving between menus, because if you think of it like that, they can long. You know the big, long list where 448 00:54:38.040 --> 00:54:57.729 Aaron McHale: particularly when it has administration menu, and well, for one, it's if you just want to put something in the main menu and like move things around there, it's way less overwhelming if all you have to do is look at lists that just hug your things for your main menu, which is probably gonna be like 5 or 6 items. And and then also, like moving between menus, it's it's 449 00:54:58.500 --> 00:54:59.820 Aaron McHale: it's quite like. 450 00:54:59.930 --> 00:55:21.089 Aaron McHale: could could be quite common that one menu has, like 2 menus of items named exact same thing. I could see that happening. So like, maybe you, maybe you think, okay, this was under something. Let's say, this was in one menu under something page under about, and you want it to move it to a different menu also under a page called About which to me doesn't? 451 00:55:21.200 --> 00:55:25.620 Aaron McHale: Why, you'd have 2 menus with about in the same. But That would 452 00:55:25.780 --> 00:55:45.239 Aaron McHale: Maybe you know it. It might be that when you go to move it. You find the other page in the list, but maybe it was like. maybe you accidentally moved it to a different menu. So like, now, if you want to. I. The only way to move some of the different menu based on saying is that you have to intentionally select different menu, and then you get this item. So I'd say, this is like 453 00:55:45.760 --> 00:56:11.109 Aaron McHale: gives the user more certainty that they're not gonna accidentally move something to a different menu that they didn't intend to. And also, certainly makes the list less overwhelming when you're not working with the administration menu directly. For most cases. So this is definitely a big improvement. I wonder if we need to do anything like this is just off my head is seeing this like, say, when you move, when you move 454 00:56:11.250 --> 00:56:14.379 Aaron McHale: something to a different menu. 455 00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:19.569 Aaron McHale: I'm just thinking, do we need to give the user any plea like more indication that 456 00:56:19.680 --> 00:56:32.560 Aaron McHale: the list below has changed. So now would they need to like select a new parent, or II don't know if that's if it's what how it is right now is enough for that. But it's just something that pops into my head. Maybe, like. 457 00:56:32.890 --> 00:56:42.070 Aaron McHale: you know, I don't know. Maybe maybe highlight, maybe like something like how maybe we highlight the the list of like the parent list, or something. That's the only thing that 458 00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:43.380 Aaron McHale: come to mind. 459 00:56:43.470 --> 00:56:52.029 Benji Fisher: Okay, let me first say that you got some thumbs up. During that Emma gave a thumbs up during the early part when you were talking about moving. 460 00:56:52.530 --> 00:56:56.669 Benji Fisher: I think, from one menu to another, and Simo gave a thumbs up. Later. 461 00:56:56.760 --> 00:56:59.360 Benji Fisher: Let's just look 462 00:57:00.380 --> 00:57:05.299 Benji Fisher: if I've currently selected a child menu and then I change it from footer to 463 00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:10.459 Benji Fisher: tools. Then I can visibly see that this 464 00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:16.829 Benji Fisher: parent link, as updated now, says, tools, it's the root out into that menu. 465 00:57:16.870 --> 00:57:19.219 Benji Fisher: So there is some visual indication. 466 00:57:19.250 --> 00:57:37.289 Aaron McHale: and you you also get outloading for a second there is that kind of change where it it reloads the form. So I mean that that is good. Yeah, I see the kind of there is some kind of visual change happening that that hopefully a user would see. I'm 467 00:57:37.730 --> 00:57:48.989 Aaron McHale: I guess I don't know if we need to do anything to do with screen readers and other other cases. But maybe drupal's Ajax system will deal with that for us, I'm not sure. 468 00:57:50.090 --> 00:57:52.539 Benji Fisher: So Thomas, go ahead. 469 00:57:53.350 --> 00:57:56.410 Thomas Howell: Just 2 side comments. That I'm 470 00:57:56.710 --> 00:58:09.819 Thomas Howell: positive the first comment is would be a side issue. So. But I just wanna share it in this context. And the second one, I'm I don't know if it's appropriate to this issue. It'd be nice if if it could be part of it. 471 00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:12.470 Thomas Howell: The first comment is, 472 00:58:12.500 --> 00:58:42.109 Thomas Howell: Looking now at how this page works. I'd like them. I I'd I'd love if we could capture this exact information in how it's logged into the system logs, so that if you're moving the link from one thing to the other. We've now got it organized by menu parent link, cause you could show where it was and where it moved to cause. I I've absolutely seen the about problem where you've got like the same menu link 473 00:58:42.450 --> 00:58:54.119 Thomas Howell: title used in a bunch of different places. And historically, I've lost links when you have really crazy things, I've seen them get lost 474 00:58:54.350 --> 00:59:04.710 Thomas Howell: and so if you accidentally, even on this page, and I love the certainty, and this is 100% thumbs up on this. If it moved to some place I'd be worried about 475 00:59:04.870 --> 00:59:20.159 Thomas Howell: still thinking it was tools. And it was actually tool that I was supposed to be moving it to for the menu, and then struggling to find it so, having it logged, based upon how this page looks, and to me, that's almost 100% going to be a follow up 476 00:59:20.910 --> 00:59:37.639 Thomas Howell: the thing that I don't know if it's a follow up is at least with the parent link, because of how long menus can the the menus can be? Even within a given menu? It'd be nice if it could be rather than dropdown some form of auto complete 477 00:59:37.640 --> 00:59:58.599 Thomas Howell: or search something that's searchable, because for one, it would show you in a really long menu if you had 5 instances that looked like about you would be able to see them all as options. Whereas if you're doing a scroll through dropdown of a really crazy long list. 478 00:59:58.600 --> 01:00:27.259 Thomas Howell: this is a tighter visual space than when you see the full family chain. So in the traditional way, I agree. It's horrible. This is an improvement. But you could potentially see where it was coming from it, where you're looking at parent link here. You're only looking straight through that dropdown list and so if it could be auto complete at the very least, I can tell that there's 5 instances about, and that's the only 2 comments I have. Thank you. 479 01:00:28.130 --> 01:00:36.720 Benji Fisher: Okay. So if I were to save this there's currently I get status message. The menu link has been saved. 480 01:00:37.020 --> 01:00:41.240 Benji Fisher: and as as typical, we get very little information from that. 481 01:00:41.320 --> 01:00:46.339 Benji Fisher: I don't think there's anything in logs. I check recent log messages. No. 482 01:00:46.520 --> 01:00:48.659 Benji Fisher: nothing since I logged in. 483 01:00:49.160 --> 01:00:53.090 Benji Fisher: That is, we're we're all familiar. 484 01:00:53.170 --> 01:00:54.679 Benji Fisher: Every time you 485 01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:57.450 Benji Fisher: add a new node it gets 486 01:00:58.050 --> 01:00:59.339 Benji Fisher: a log entry. 487 01:00:59.490 --> 01:01:08.090 Benji Fisher: so II would call that not even a follow up issue, but just another issue. certainly worth considering. 488 01:01:08.950 --> 01:01:12.070 Benji Fisher: And I think someone gave a thumbs up to that idea. 489 01:01:14.170 --> 01:01:18.910 Benji Fisher: And then what was the other thing? right, that 490 01:01:20.930 --> 01:01:23.419 Benji Fisher: you're suggesting that 491 01:01:23.890 --> 01:01:29.019 Benji Fisher: a select list is unmanageable when there are a lot of things in it. 492 01:01:29.090 --> 01:01:32.320 Benji Fisher: And I do remember discussion of offering 493 01:01:32.550 --> 01:01:40.889 Benji Fisher: a a select or check boxes which it, and not in this context. But 494 01:01:43.980 --> 01:01:49.479 Benji Fisher: II forget exactly what context it was, I think it was for fields that you add to a content type or something. 495 01:01:50.270 --> 01:01:53.850 Benji Fisher: And and yeah, that might be an another 496 01:01:54.120 --> 01:02:05.040 Benji Fisher: thing to consider. And if we do make that change, if we do give the option of showing this as check boxes. possibly even searchable. 497 01:02:05.260 --> 01:02:11.009 Benji Fisher: that we'd have to consider the grouping. And what's open by default and that sort of thing. 498 01:02:12.030 --> 01:02:13.989 Benji Fisher: But go ahead, Ralph. 499 01:02:14.600 --> 01:02:22.669 Ralf Koller: 2 small details, one suggestion in regards of Aaron's suggestion, indicating 500 01:02:23.240 --> 01:02:30.429 Ralf Koller: that when the block is the menu item is moved. One idea might be as soon as you change 501 01:02:30.660 --> 01:02:37.130 Ralf Koller: the menu and the parent link. Then automatically, 502 01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:45.509 Ralf Koller: show a second save button, so one save button. Save the menu item and let you return to the current 503 01:02:45.720 --> 01:02:54.029 Ralf Koller: menu, where the menu item is moved from, and a second save button to go to the menu 504 01:02:54.050 --> 01:03:12.859 Ralf Koller: where it's newly saved into that way. It would be more apparent to the user. And also you don't know where you want to go next editing a menu. If you want to stay in that current one, or you want to go over in the one you're moving the menu into a menu item into 505 01:03:12.970 --> 01:03:16.259 Ralf Koller: that would be the one thing and the other one is. 506 01:03:17.670 --> 01:03:22.300 Ralf Koller: you've already shown it quickly, adding a new menu item 507 01:03:22.310 --> 01:03:25.640 Ralf Koller: at the moment the parent link is underneath. 508 01:03:25.740 --> 01:03:36.769 Ralf Koller: but I think it should be moved to the sidebar. But my question is, should also the menu select list be shown as well for creating a new menu item. 509 01:03:37.250 --> 01:03:41.039 Ralf Koller: So that it's it's okay that you pre-populate it with 510 01:03:41.060 --> 01:03:47.879 Ralf Koller: the menu. The user is pressing the add menu, item, button in, but 511 01:03:48.000 --> 01:04:00.029 Ralf Koller: that if there's still the option at last minute that you can change your mind, and instead of when you press the button in, for example, administration items, you can go still to the footer that way. 512 01:04:01.260 --> 01:04:03.210 Benji Fisher: Okay? 513 01:04:04.570 --> 01:04:10.930 Benji Fisher: yeah. And that, that, I think, would be appropriate for a follow up issue to add this 514 01:04:11.140 --> 01:04:15.869 Benji Fisher: not only when when editing a menu, but also when 515 01:04:16.550 --> 01:04:17.819 creating a new link. 516 01:04:18.120 --> 01:04:20.990 Benji Fisher: and we just have a few more minutes. Go ahead, Simo. 517 01:04:22.890 --> 01:04:33.870 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. I was thinking that if we improve the notifications and logging, and maybe also to check that, there is information about the possible child items 518 01:04:33.890 --> 01:04:40.539 Simo Hellsten: that are affected. So that's something I think is currently missing. I'm not sure. But I think so. 519 01:04:45.140 --> 01:04:50.789 Benji Fisher: Okay. 1 1. One other thing I wanna check again. 520 01:04:51.380 --> 01:04:53.010 Benji Fisher: If I change this. 521 01:04:54.910 --> 01:05:00.290 Benji Fisher: the focus stays on the menu. Should it switch to 522 01:05:00.620 --> 01:05:03.509 Benji Fisher: the parent link? Item. 523 01:05:05.550 --> 01:05:09.370 Benji Fisher: Aaron, go ahead. I'm getting a couple of thumbs up. 524 01:05:10.100 --> 01:05:13.209 Aaron McHale: Probably. Yeah, I would 525 01:05:13.750 --> 01:05:17.080 Aaron McHale: think so once you ask, once you select one, the natural like 526 01:05:18.080 --> 01:05:20.120 Aaron McHale: would be to change it. But 527 01:05:20.540 --> 01:05:24.340 Aaron McHale: What I was gonna say is I on on, when you create a menu, I 528 01:05:27.590 --> 01:05:32.350 Benji Fisher: sorry we're moving. We just lost your audio. Oh, sorry I can. You hear me now? Yes. 529 01:05:32.510 --> 01:05:35.660 Aaron McHale: yeah. I think it's okay that it's 530 01:05:35.990 --> 01:05:53.560 Aaron McHale: When you when you create a menu item, I think it's fine that it doesn't show the menu, because, like you've you. Generally speaking, you create the menu item from by going into a menu. So you've already selected the menu want to create the item in. So I don't. I don't think actually showing on the create form is necessarily like 531 01:05:54.290 --> 01:05:58.810 Aaron McHale: the most useful thing to do, if anything, maybe it just adds more confusion because 532 01:05:58.840 --> 01:06:08.369 Aaron McHale: you will. There, do you think? Well, I've already selected the menu. Do I need to like select again, or something. I mean, it'll probably already be pre-populated. But at that point it gets like unnecessary. So 533 01:06:08.520 --> 01:06:22.090 Aaron McHale: I presume if you haven't come from the menu list, and you haven't select today. It will show in the case where you just go directly to adding, but even then, I think you like add, I think the Add Group is direct is under the menu, so I don't really know but 534 01:06:22.130 --> 01:06:24.710 Aaron McHale: I'm fine with it. Not showing. 535 01:06:25.500 --> 01:06:26.220 Benji Fisher: Okay. 536 01:06:27.550 --> 01:06:36.610 Benji Fisher: so we are running up against the time limit. I'll try to leave a comment on this issue as well, unless someone else wants to do it. 537 01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:44.990 Benji Fisher: And II think the the one thing we discussed that that perhaps, is in scope for this issue is that 538 01:06:45.690 --> 01:06:50.580 Benji Fisher: point I made toward the end that when you change the menu. 539 01:06:50.670 --> 01:06:52.530 Benji Fisher: The focus 540 01:06:52.910 --> 01:06:56.199 Benji Fisher: should switch to the parent link. Is that a third recommendation? 541 01:07:00.270 --> 01:07:06.050 Aaron McHale: I would like to see how the how that impacts. We need their users. But in general, yeah. 542 01:07:06.230 --> 01:07:13.670 Benji Fisher: okay. And I got a thumbs up from Simo and Thomas. Emma, did you want to say something? I was gonna agree. Yeah. Okay, great. 543 01:07:15.300 --> 01:07:26.180 Benji Fisher: Thanks for coming. It is the end of the hour. next week is getting awfully close to Christmas. I don't know if people want to meet. But 544 01:07:27.140 --> 01:07:42.189 Benji Fisher: certainly the the zoom link is automatic, and I think I'll probably be here. But if no one else shows up. It'll be a very short meeting. so see you, if not next week, perhaps the week after. And 545 01:07:43.230 --> 01:07:44.870 Benji Fisher: thanks for thanks again for coming. 546 01:07:45.800 --> 01:07:49.470 Thomas Howell: Thanks, Benji thanks everyone. Bye, bye.