WEBVTT 33 00:06:53.220 --> 00:06:58.300 Benji Fisher: welcome. This is the duple usability meeting for December 20, s, 2023. 34 00:06:58.340 --> 00:07:08.299 Benji Fisher: I'm Benjy Fisher moderating, and we also have Ralph Kohler sharing a screen. We'll start off the discussion. and Aaron Mikhail and Thomas Howell go ahead, Ralph. 35 00:07:10.390 --> 00:07:12.310 Ralf Koller: Okay, 36 00:07:14.450 --> 00:07:24.899 Ralf Koller: we are looking today at issue number 2, 6, 0 9, 2, 5, 6, and warning message to import translations. After enabling interface translations. 37 00:07:25.410 --> 00:07:34.030 Ralf Koller: steps, which are at first, we just go through the steps to reproduce and 38 00:07:34.050 --> 00:07:40.290 Ralf Koller: I've created 2 instances, one without the patch and one with the patch applied. 39 00:07:40.510 --> 00:07:47.189 Ralf Koller: The steps to reproduce are the following, you just have to 40 00:07:47.220 --> 00:08:00.130 Ralf Koller: install the language module. then go to configuration. to languages. Add a second language. let's go with German. 41 00:08:01.370 --> 00:08:05.159 Ralf Koller: and then you go back to extend. 42 00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:12.320 Ralf Koller: and on a side notice, as I've mentioned already in a thread not related to this issue, but 43 00:08:13.350 --> 00:08:22.939 Ralf Koller: still related, is, use one of the language switcher blocks to allow services to switch between languages you can enable the blocks on the block. Administration page. 44 00:08:23.090 --> 00:08:33.680 Ralf Koller: block administration page is sort of ambiguous. From my point of view. Block administration. I would think it could be either 45 00:08:33.710 --> 00:08:38.300 Ralf Koller: in content or it could be the block layout. And yeah, it's actually 46 00:08:38.429 --> 00:08:40.730 Ralf Koller: pointing the block layout patient. 47 00:08:40.870 --> 00:08:52.530 Ralf Koller: Why not? Simply addressing the name what it is. So blocks on the block layout page, maybe, but it's unrelated. and let's go on and 48 00:08:53.210 --> 00:08:54.770 Ralf Koller: then go to extend 49 00:08:55.900 --> 00:09:00.830 Ralf Koller: and oops install the interface translations. 50 00:09:07.690 --> 00:09:12.849 Ralf Koller: And yeah, no, nothing is happening there. And in comparison. 51 00:09:15.610 --> 00:09:20.260 Ralf Koller: if you go down. apply the same steps. Language. 52 00:09:21.620 --> 00:09:26.310 Ralf Koller: configuration. language. match. 53 00:09:31.190 --> 00:09:32.160 Ralf Koller: chairman. 54 00:09:33.420 --> 00:09:34.440 Ralf Koller: go back. 55 00:09:37.900 --> 00:09:39.680 Ralf Koller: go to interface. 56 00:09:43.400 --> 00:09:45.450 Ralf Koller: And then you see 57 00:09:49.170 --> 00:09:50.520 Ralf Koller: the order. 58 00:09:50.530 --> 00:09:53.530 Ralf Koller: It's different. And you can see 59 00:09:53.690 --> 00:10:03.250 Ralf Koller: it was added, go to available at and translation updates in order to download translations for your language. That's basically what let's purchase adding 60 00:10:05.380 --> 00:10:06.810 Ralf Koller: any questions. 61 00:10:07.930 --> 00:10:17.200 Benji Fisher: Okay, so it's changing the order. It's putting the warning ahead of this of the info message. yeah. And then it's adding this additional line. 62 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:18.320 Ralf Koller: yep. 63 00:10:19.420 --> 00:10:20.330 Benji Fisher: hmm. 64 00:10:26.150 --> 00:10:29.719 Ralf Koller: and I have to note one detail. 65 00:10:30.550 --> 00:10:31.370 Ralf Koller: from a 66 00:10:33.530 --> 00:10:40.379 Ralf Koller: perspective of the German translation. Not sure, if it's in a real life setting 67 00:10:40.800 --> 00:10:45.459 Ralf Koller: a relevant one, or it could happen in any way. But 68 00:10:45.880 --> 00:10:47.850 Ralf Koller: if you follow now as a 69 00:10:49.110 --> 00:10:50.740 Ralf Koller: a user. 70 00:10:51.070 --> 00:11:04.760 Ralf Koller: follow the suggestion, go to available translations. Place in order to download. Translated for language, I think. Oh, cool I can. I'm able to. So I do that. But then I see missing translations for one project chairman. So 71 00:11:05.140 --> 00:11:06.650 Ralf Koller: I kind of 72 00:11:06.910 --> 00:11:17.169 Ralf Koller: feel fooled. I'm sent to a page to download something and then get the notice that the translation I'm supposed to download there is not available and it even missing. So 73 00:11:19.940 --> 00:11:22.999 Ralf Koller: that's also one detail to note there. 74 00:11:24.280 --> 00:11:27.389 Benji Fisher: Okay, I think Thomas has a comment or question, go ahead. 75 00:11:28.620 --> 00:11:33.429 Thomas Howell: I like this. But 76 00:11:33.510 --> 00:11:48.639 Thomas Howell: a I don't think this belongs there. If it, if the available translation updates doesn't work so that the comment on being fooled I agree with very strongly, because to me that's even more like, it needs to be very clear 77 00:11:48.750 --> 00:12:00.149 Thomas Howell: how you're supposed to take care of this warning message. And right now it doesn't make sense. It doesn't seem to me that you can act upon it. and warning messages or things that you need to be able to act on. 78 00:12:00.340 --> 00:12:12.560 Thomas Howell: And the other question I had was, what happens after you've at? Is this a one time warning message that only appears after installing that 79 00:12:12.700 --> 00:12:15.589 later, the second module? 80 00:12:16.160 --> 00:12:19.960 Thomas Howell: Or is this something that 81 00:12:20.710 --> 00:12:27.639 Thomas Howell: there persistently, until you add the required translation. Update 82 00:12:35.620 --> 00:12:42.189 Benji Fisher: right? So what? What? Exactly triggers this and and what action are you supposed to be taking? 83 00:12:45.530 --> 00:12:48.510 Thomas Howell: Yes, much more concisely said. But exactly. 84 00:13:04.870 --> 00:13:12.230 Benji Fisher: You know. What? What page does that go to? 85 00:13:12.280 --> 00:13:16.140 Benji Fisher: Available translation updates? It's 86 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:17.569 Ralf Koller: under reports. 87 00:13:20.250 --> 00:13:22.420 Benji Fisher: admin reports, translations 88 00:13:23.850 --> 00:13:24.670 Ralf Koller: on here. 89 00:13:42.140 --> 00:13:49.150 Ralf Koller: And I've noticed one other semi-related issue as well. 90 00:13:49.520 --> 00:13:53.389 Ralf Koller: I think if you 91 00:13:53.820 --> 00:14:01.769 Ralf Koller: install the language module, and then the content translation module only instead of the interface translation, then you get the notice 92 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:08.630 Ralf Koller: there is only a single language installed. You have to install a second language 93 00:14:10.640 --> 00:14:13.880 Ralf Koller: While without 94 00:14:14.990 --> 00:14:21.499 Ralf Koller: aside the default language any language installed. But if you do the same for the interference. Translator. So insert first the language. 95 00:14:21.570 --> 00:14:31.010 Ralf Koller: keep just the default language, and then install the interface translation. Then you don't get that notification, and that might be also something 96 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:44.570 Ralf Koller: to recommend to the user. Otherwise it doesn't make sense to install the interface translations. So it's the same situation like for the content translation. basically. 97 00:14:50.640 --> 00:14:51.950 Benji Fisher: So I guess 98 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:58.280 Benji Fisher: in in in addition to the the fact that that this this is not actionable. 99 00:14:58.580 --> 00:15:00.890 which which is the main problem. 100 00:15:01.040 --> 00:15:06.630 Benji Fisher: II don't think this 101 00:15:06.860 --> 00:15:11.509 Benji Fisher: should be a warning message. I think it should be a status message. I don't think that 102 00:15:11.770 --> 00:15:15.789 Benji Fisher: downloading the translation updates 103 00:15:15.850 --> 00:15:19.629 Benji Fisher: is any more of an error condition 104 00:15:19.680 --> 00:15:23.230 Benji Fisher: than configuring permissions or 105 00:15:25.130 --> 00:15:27.759 Benji Fisher: the the interface translation module. 106 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:39.280 Benji Fisher: Just one additional thought. That's something that was also brought up in that issue. 107 00:15:39.540 --> 00:15:42.630 Ralf Koller: The question why? 108 00:15:43.310 --> 00:15:51.440 Ralf Koller: The translation isn't automatically downloaded in. Okay, at the moment it's impossible for German cause. It's on 11 109 00:15:52.370 --> 00:15:56.489 Ralf Koller: point def. But still the question, if 110 00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:08.040 Ralf Koller: the interface translations are available, why not automatically download them? And why require an extra step for the user to manually download them afterwards. 111 00:16:08.090 --> 00:16:21.769 Ralf Koller: And just and that way it would be okay to present a warning message instead, like you suggested. Now, as for the current state, it would make sense to present it as a status message. But instead. 112 00:16:22.460 --> 00:16:32.770 Ralf Koller: why make that step necessary or automatically download it? And in case something goes wrong like at the moment, then do an error or an warning message. Then. 113 00:16:35.310 --> 00:16:49.699 Benji Fisher: yeah, it would be nice if we're automatic and and we certainly download translations automatically in in some situations like when you, when you enable a new language, they're downloaded automatically. Go ahead, Thomas. 114 00:16:50.250 --> 00:17:01.770 Thomas Howell: This is unfortunately an ignorance question. Because I've never used the translation module before. When it's downloaded, is it? Is it placed within the database, or is it actually placed 115 00:17:02.160 --> 00:17:12.069 Thomas Howell: in the file system. Because I know in certain instances, if it goes down to the file system it may not be writable, and that may 116 00:17:12.130 --> 00:17:21.320 Thomas Howell: may impact what we're suggesting, but if it's downloading it to the database, I would second or third 117 00:17:21.609 --> 00:17:32.040 Thomas Howell: the fact that it should just all be part of installing the module. It's strange to separate it if it's downloaded into the database, and you could 118 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:49.470 Thomas Howell: make part of that process a warning message, or whatever saying, hey? Are you sure you want to do this? You're downloading it? But and I would have assumed normally that checking the box for a language was actually making that available. So it's strange that it is actually a separate step. 119 00:17:52.180 --> 00:18:03.170 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it downloads files to the temporary directory. and if you don't have right permissions to the temporary directory. You have bigger problems with your site than this. 120 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:06.399 Benji Fisher: It downloads them, and then it imports them into the database. 121 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:12.389 Thomas Howell: Okay. So it goes to the database. And and that was the important question for me. Thank you. 122 00:18:21.510 --> 00:18:29.919 Benji Fisher: Okay, so as as a question of scope, I don't think we should say no, don't add a message because it should really be happening automatically. 123 00:18:30.080 --> 00:18:33.130 Benji Fisher: That that should be a separate issue, and 124 00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:37.119 Benji Fisher: maybe there already is such an issue? 125 00:18:37.520 --> 00:18:47.369 Benji Fisher: But in the scope of this issue I would say, it's reasonable to say this shouldn't be a warning message. It's just a status message. 126 00:18:47.550 --> 00:18:52.690 Benji Fisher: and it shouldn't talk about downloading translations. It should 127 00:18:53.250 --> 00:19:00.819 Benji Fisher: be something like to to check for available updates. 128 00:19:01.600 --> 00:19:05.400 Benji Fisher: so something like 129 00:19:06.780 --> 00:19:10.629 Benji Fisher: check link available translation updates and link 130 00:19:11.750 --> 00:19:14.349 Benji Fisher: to to see 131 00:19:14.600 --> 00:19:17.629 Benji Fisher: what needs to be updated. Something like that. Go ahead, Ralph. 132 00:19:17.980 --> 00:19:21.309 Ralf Koller: but check available updates. Or. 133 00:19:21.370 --> 00:19:30.880 Ralf Koller: however you phrase, it is sort of misleading, because. if it's phrased that way, I would assume some translations are already downloaded. 134 00:19:31.660 --> 00:19:36.690 Ralf Koller: and in the current state it looks like there isn't anything download, and you have 135 00:19:37.110 --> 00:19:39.819 Ralf Koller: to download the first initial 136 00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:42.989 Ralf Koller: iteration manually on your own. 137 00:19:44.210 --> 00:19:47.599 Benji Fisher: How? What is the process for for downloading them? 138 00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:53.340 Benji Fisher: I mean, suppose you go to that page. What is 139 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:56.730 Benji Fisher: is that? A details element that can be expanded? 140 00:20:00.170 --> 00:20:00.910 Benji Fisher: This 141 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:04.649 Benji Fisher: I'll not found. 142 00:20:05.770 --> 00:20:18.909 Ralf Koller: I could quickly try if it's possible, to apply the patch to a 10.2 install, and there 143 00:20:19.040 --> 00:20:24.180 Ralf Koller: would be a German translation, and then we could see 144 00:20:25.500 --> 00:20:27.069 Ralf Koller: how it's presented there. 145 00:20:27.100 --> 00:20:31.250 Ralf Koller: But I'm not sure if it's will be possible. But I could quickly try 1 s. 146 00:20:31.890 --> 00:20:43.850 Benji Fisher: Yeah, pre. Presumably the patch is only adding the link to this page. It's not changing what happens at this page. So you don't even need to apply the patch. You just need to have a 10.2 site setup. 147 00:20:44.430 --> 00:20:46.909 Ralf Koller: What was the last 1 1 s 148 00:20:47.500 --> 00:20:51.010 Aaron McHale: just follow. Ralph is checking that out. 149 00:20:51.340 --> 00:21:01.489 Aaron McHale: One thing that comes to mind, and and I'll mention it while it's doing it, because it's not directly related to this issue, but from a an overall like product usability. Perspective. 150 00:21:01.910 --> 00:21:28.609 Aaron McHale: one thing that would be interesting to see is, you know, farther down the road, when we have things like Project Browser, and could use project browsers to download translation packs, or whatever we call them. And I know that's the case on certain systems, like I'm pretty sure on like on windows like it just uses built in you know, store package management system now to download like additional language packs. And they're literally just packages that are installed in the system so like from a a set of holistic 151 00:21:28.610 --> 00:21:42.709 Aaron McHale: perspective of if as as a site, my like administrator, you're downloading something like you're installing something into the site. Whether it's a theme module, a language pack, you know I feel like those should all come from the same place 152 00:21:42.860 --> 00:21:44.090 Aaron McHale: like, you know. 153 00:21:45.350 --> 00:21:48.430 Aaron McHale: But that's a much bigger question than what we're looking at today. So 154 00:22:16.300 --> 00:22:19.870 Ralf Koller: there is already downloading it. So. 155 00:22:31.780 --> 00:22:34.079 Ralf Koller: But I'm on 10.2 on here. 156 00:22:36.010 --> 00:22:38.830 Ralf Koller: I'm still pricing my end. Sorry. 157 00:22:49.600 --> 00:22:51.020 Benji Fisher: Thomas. 158 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.659 Thomas Howell: Just a question about what just happened. 159 00:22:56.080 --> 00:23:09.440 Thomas Howell: is it? It's automatically up, downloading it and installing it in 10 x. Does that mean that? The only reason we're even seeing this error in 11 is because 160 00:23:09.580 --> 00:23:10.460 the 161 00:23:11.840 --> 00:23:20.169 Thomas Howell: German translation isn't available for 11 yet. Is that like so essentially does this error message or the status message just vanish. 162 00:23:20.270 --> 00:23:23.640 Thomas Howell: If you're 50 language exists. 163 00:23:27.650 --> 00:23:32.390 Ralf Koller: I would assume the same honestly, and I'm I'm wondering 164 00:23:32.540 --> 00:23:38.679 Ralf Koller: how you're able to run into that error or that stateless message or warning at all. Then 165 00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:44.570 Ralf Koller: oops. 166 00:23:58.060 --> 00:24:19.239 Thomas Howell: I mean, I could see it being an issue. If you had a language to pick that might be uncommon, and it takes longer for it to be available. But I still don't see how this is actionable, and it becomes even a more significant problem if it's not actionable. I don't know why it would be a status message. Because 167 00:24:19.760 --> 00:24:23.970 Thomas Howell: to me that would be very, very confusing. 168 00:24:35.140 --> 00:24:43.350 Benji Fisher: Yeah. So now I'm beginning to think that I was wrong, that this actually is warning message rather than a status message, because it only happens when 169 00:24:44.210 --> 00:24:51.210 Benji Fisher: and and and it it looks as though it does try to download the translations automatically. 170 00:24:51.730 --> 00:24:55.499 Benji Fisher: And and this warning message indicates that something has gone wrong. 171 00:24:58.110 --> 00:24:58.780 Ralf Koller: Yep. 172 00:24:59.390 --> 00:25:03.740 Benji Fisher: but it is 173 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:12.869 Benji Fisher: still not actionable. And it is still misleading. 174 00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:22.040 Benji Fisher: I suppose it's better to have a warning message than not. 175 00:25:23.780 --> 00:25:29.639 Benji Fisher: and maybe 176 00:25:32.280 --> 00:25:37.310 Benji Fisher: maybe it should be the responsibility of the page we're looking at now to 177 00:25:37.970 --> 00:25:42.150 Benji Fisher: give some information on on what to do next. 178 00:25:42.730 --> 00:25:43.930 Benji Fisher: And 179 00:25:54.170 --> 00:26:01.089 Benji Fisher: obviously your hand raised again, or still, I just raised it again. Go ahead. 180 00:26:01.230 --> 00:26:07.189 Thomas Howell: II disagree very slightly in that. I think that 181 00:26:08.300 --> 00:26:19.899 Thomas Howell: The warning message should give the recommendation. Either go to this link to this page, and this page takes care of the problem, or 182 00:26:19.940 --> 00:26:29.449 Thomas Howell: UN choose uninstall the language you just picked. Like I would II would either suggest that, like I, I'm 183 00:26:29.900 --> 00:26:34.980 Thomas Howell: worried about it being in a broken state where you show that up once. 184 00:26:35.040 --> 00:26:51.309 Thomas Howell: and it's not clear how to. I still want to have both a path to fix it and a path to undo it. If there is a warning message, because I still want the warning message to be fully actionable, and having the language that says 185 00:26:51.740 --> 00:26:56.780 Thomas Howell: you can. Action this by uninstalling German. 186 00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:05.960 Thomas Howell: because German's not available, and saying it more concisely, I am. That's still a valid action. But I really want like 187 00:27:06.350 --> 00:27:19.909 Thomas Howell: warning messages have to have something for me like, otherwise it's not a warning. It's just an error, saying it's tried to install something and fail to install. And that's not a warning. That's an error. It's one time, and it shows up in the logs as a warning or an error message. 188 00:27:21.610 --> 00:27:24.489 Benji Fisher: Oh, yeah. Speaking of Vlogs, Ralph, is there anything 189 00:27:25.660 --> 00:27:28.429 Benji Fisher: in the logs? When this happens 190 00:27:28.570 --> 00:27:30.700 Ralf Koller: I'm in the with the patch. 191 00:27:31.550 --> 00:27:34.760 Ralf Koller: Recent lock messages. 192 00:27:42.460 --> 00:27:46.320 Benji Fisher: you know, configuration optics have been updated. So that's not very helpful. 193 00:27:49.760 --> 00:27:57.099 Benji Fisher: And that's really not helpful. The location of her going batch pages that won't work 194 00:27:57.640 --> 00:27:59.570 Benji Fisher: after the batch is completed. 195 00:28:00.260 --> 00:28:01.999 Ralf Koller: and pretty unspecific. 196 00:28:14.950 --> 00:28:22.480 Benji Fisher: So so I still think that. you know. with without expanding the scope of the current issue. 197 00:28:22.910 --> 00:28:25.710 Benji Fisher: it. 198 00:28:26.290 --> 00:28:29.429 Benji Fisher: It makes sense to 199 00:28:33.210 --> 00:28:34.920 Benji Fisher: to change the wording 200 00:28:36.030 --> 00:28:40.900 Benji Fisher: so that it's it doesn't talk about downloading. 201 00:28:41.010 --> 00:28:48.090 Benji Fisher: but does direct you to this page. You can navigate to this page normally. 202 00:28:49.710 --> 00:28:57.940 Benji Fisher: once you're there, the breadcrumbs tell you that it's under reports, so you can go back there later. 203 00:29:36.800 --> 00:29:38.760 Ralf Koller: is your audio gone? Benji? 204 00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:44.730 Benji Fisher: Yeah. I just I was just thinking, but go ahead. 205 00:29:45.370 --> 00:29:51.070 Ralf Koller: Okay, cause it stopped at 1 point and there was a long silence. Sorry. 206 00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:52.350 Ralf Koller: No problem. 207 00:29:53.210 --> 00:29:55.400 Ralf Koller: I think 208 00:29:56.260 --> 00:29:56.940 Ralf Koller: I, 209 00:29:58.580 --> 00:30:07.169 Ralf Koller: in addition to pointing to that available translation, updates page. I would also vote 210 00:30:07.580 --> 00:30:13.499 Ralf Koller: thought towards Thomas's suggestion, also adding the option to undo it. 211 00:30:13.850 --> 00:30:16.710 Ralf Koller: basically to remove the language again. 212 00:30:17.210 --> 00:30:21.460 Ralf Koller: but basically. 213 00:30:21.780 --> 00:30:24.299 Ralf Koller: I think it would have to 214 00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:30.300 Ralf Koller: be some sort of reassurance on the issue for people working there. If it's 215 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:37.150 Ralf Koller: if that issue er that message only shows if a case like that missing translation for one project 216 00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:40.009 Ralf Koller: is the case. 217 00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:41.220 Ralf Koller: and then that 218 00:30:41.420 --> 00:30:52.339 Ralf Koller: issue shows up. Then you could be more specific. Meaning. yeah. What this data says, the translation is not available 219 00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:57.840 Ralf Koller: at the moment, for example. And then you have 2 options. Either go there 220 00:30:57.890 --> 00:31:02.069 Ralf Koller: for me for more detail. Available translation updates or 221 00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:06.449 Ralf Koller: you have the option to simply remove 222 00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:10.170 Ralf Koller: the language for now and undo this step. 223 00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:18.269 Benji Fisher: looking at the 224 00:31:19.020 --> 00:31:20.869 Benji Fisher: the issue. 225 00:31:22.010 --> 00:31:30.039 Benji Fisher: it says there's a workaround which is to delete the language and then add it back again. 226 00:31:33.690 --> 00:31:35.800 and according to the issue that 227 00:31:36.100 --> 00:31:38.600 Benji Fisher: works to to fix the problem. 228 00:31:39.120 --> 00:31:45.320 Benji Fisher: so 229 00:31:48.470 --> 00:31:52.549 Benji Fisher: I would suggest. since warning messages 230 00:31:52.560 --> 00:31:55.609 Benji Fisher: should not be too long. 231 00:31:56.440 --> 00:32:01.899 Benji Fisher: and because the warning message only appears once after you've submitted the form 232 00:32:02.500 --> 00:32:07.329 Benji Fisher: that the warning message should have a link to the report page 233 00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:11.469 Benji Fisher: and the report page should suggest a workaround. 234 00:32:14.790 --> 00:32:20.260 Ralf Koller: Okay? And that way between the warning paid warning message and the persistent 235 00:32:20.300 --> 00:32:25.740 Benji Fisher: message on the report page. we would have something actionable 236 00:32:47.760 --> 00:32:53.459 Ralf Koller: and and having something actionable on the reports. Page would have the advantage that. 237 00:32:53.780 --> 00:33:01.829 Ralf Koller: based on the kind of error that is happening. You can provide different kinds of actionable items. There 238 00:33:03.410 --> 00:33:06.770 Benji Fisher: you can again later, you can 239 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.790 Benji Fisher: uninstall and reinstall language. 240 00:33:18.330 --> 00:33:19.280 Benji Fisher: So 241 00:33:24.700 --> 00:33:35.529 Benji Fisher: so I think a combination of changing the wording of warning message and and adding information to the reports. Page is is the right way to go. 242 00:33:36.030 --> 00:33:39.860 And frankly, I think that's in scope for the current issue, because 243 00:33:40.520 --> 00:33:46.549 Benji Fisher: just adding the the warning message with the link to the page. Doesn't accomplish much 244 00:33:48.300 --> 00:33:51.240 Ralf Koller: and make the log message more 245 00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:53.670 Ralf Koller: specific and more 246 00:33:54.100 --> 00:33:55.340 Ralf Koller: informational 247 00:33:55.690 --> 00:33:58.210 Ralf Koller: at the moment. It's too broad 248 00:33:58.220 --> 00:34:01.890 Ralf Koller: and saying more or less, nothing. 249 00:34:03.410 --> 00:34:11.789 Benji Fisher: sure. If the log message just added a link 250 00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.859 Benji Fisher: to the same reports. Page 251 00:34:14.380 --> 00:34:17.290 Benji Fisher: that would be a 252 00:34:17.489 --> 00:34:20.910 Benji Fisher: a minimal improvement, I think. to the live message. 253 00:34:33.350 --> 00:34:34.469 I'm Thomas. 254 00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:50.540 Thomas Howell: I'd like a little bit more in the like. I'd I'd like slightly better wording on the log message because, I typically dealt with log messages from the file system for my entire time that I managed websites. 255 00:34:50.690 --> 00:34:54.660 Thomas Howell: And so yeah, URL, links are not 256 00:34:54.860 --> 00:35:01.329 Thomas Howell: automatically the most helpful thing, especially when you're searching older logs, etc., etc. I like 257 00:35:01.550 --> 00:35:19.110 Thomas Howell: it doesn't have to be a lot of words, but it it should make sense. The error message in the logs should resemble more what you see in the message that comes up here, and that could be the message that was on here could say, missing a translation for German 258 00:35:19.260 --> 00:35:28.159 Thomas Howell: or missing translations on like it could take that message. But I would like that message to appear in the logs if possible. Whatever is most appropriate. 259 00:35:28.530 --> 00:35:33.150 Benji Fisher: Yeah, that's that's a good point. Log messages like warning messages 260 00:35:33.260 --> 00:35:41.170 Benji Fisher: should be actionable, and they should also be informational, and no configuration objects have been updated is not very informational. 261 00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:47.240 Benji Fisher: I guess 262 00:35:47.720 --> 00:35:56.050 Benji Fisher: that message is probably coming from some parent form class that deals with configuration. 263 00:35:56.150 --> 00:35:59.039 Benji Fisher: and and we should override it 264 00:36:03.970 --> 00:36:06.120 Benji Fisher: and give a more specific message. 265 00:36:12.010 --> 00:36:19.979 Benji Fisher: So do we want to try more wordsmithing? Or should that be done by? You know people who are more familiar with the problem space. 266 00:36:28.890 --> 00:36:30.310 Ralf Koller: We could maybe 267 00:36:32.390 --> 00:36:41.830 Ralf Koller: do an initial try and then see if the people on the issue intervene or have better suggestions that way. 268 00:36:41.930 --> 00:36:43.270 Benji Fisher: Okay, maybe. 269 00:36:46.540 --> 00:36:50.230 Benji Fisher: So. let's so we start with the warning message. 270 00:36:52.040 --> 00:36:53.140 Ralf Koller: second eye. 271 00:36:53.350 --> 00:36:54.980 Ralf Koller: Just show that 272 00:36:55.060 --> 00:36:58.989 Ralf Koller: current state there, or, yeah, the boarding matches the other one. Yeah. 273 00:37:00.610 --> 00:37:01.700 Ralf Koller: whatever you want 274 00:37:03.670 --> 00:37:08.540 Benji Fisher: other warning. But yeah, okay, that that one. Yeah. 275 00:37:19.830 --> 00:37:25.200 Benji Fisher: So I guess information first, and then the link. So something like, 276 00:37:25.820 --> 00:37:29.810 Benji Fisher: some translation updates are not available. 277 00:37:30.410 --> 00:37:34.849 Benji Fisher: go to link available translation updates and link 278 00:37:35.410 --> 00:37:36.820 Benji Fisher: for more information. 279 00:37:58.770 --> 00:38:00.050 Benji Fisher: Any 280 00:38:01.150 --> 00:38:04.110 Benji Fisher: alternative suggestions or improvements on that. 281 00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:08.330 Ralf Koller: I'm thinking about it. 1 s time 282 00:38:14.040 --> 00:38:15.890 Ralf Koller: copy the current state. 283 00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:17.810 Ralf Koller: If I'm able to. Yeah. 284 00:38:23.530 --> 00:38:26.919 Ralf Koller: some translations update not available, go to available 285 00:38:29.690 --> 00:38:30.620 Ralf Koller: passion 286 00:38:32.260 --> 00:38:34.370 Ralf Koller: dates for more 287 00:38:35.070 --> 00:38:36.210 Ralf Koller: information. 288 00:38:45.600 --> 00:38:48.879 Ralf Koller: I like the order. The only detail, I'm 289 00:38:50.520 --> 00:38:54.129 Ralf Koller: I think, would make sense to be added is something like 290 00:38:54.410 --> 00:38:58.109 Ralf Koller: you have more information there. But there's should be also 291 00:39:00.520 --> 00:39:08.759 Ralf Koller: a detail about that. It's actionable there, though, basically updates for information to fix the problem or something like that 292 00:39:11.100 --> 00:39:13.700 Thomas Howell: to address the problem. Yeah. 293 00:39:30.390 --> 00:39:33.050 Benji Fisher: for information. And 294 00:39:33.530 --> 00:39:34.260 Aaron McHale: deep. 295 00:39:38.170 --> 00:39:48.770 Aaron McHale: I would maybe flip that around. So like so obviously, first, we state the problem so like, you know, some translational bits not available. So that's fine. Then I would I would 296 00:39:49.070 --> 00:40:00.790 Aaron McHale: make that one sentence, and then maybe, and then maybe say for more information and to address the problem, go to. And then then the link so that we 297 00:40:01.250 --> 00:40:13.939 Aaron McHale: we have. The last thing is the link. If that makes sense, I think that's usually the pattern that we follow, although again, I've realized we don't really have a pattern we've agreed on. But like that, I would suggest doing it that way around 298 00:40:22.600 --> 00:40:23.789 Ralf Koller: something like that. 299 00:40:27.150 --> 00:40:31.310 Aaron McHale: Yeah, something like, yeah. So like, yeah, for more information. 300 00:40:32.720 --> 00:40:33.470 Oh. 301 00:40:35.240 --> 00:40:38.330 Aaron McHale: yeah, for more information to address this problem. 302 00:40:38.670 --> 00:40:43.540 Aaron McHale: is it for more information and to address this problem? Or is it for more like 303 00:40:44.300 --> 00:40:45.910 Aaron McHale: are those 2 separate things. 304 00:40:49.050 --> 00:40:52.790 Benji Fisher: I guess information about how to next step 305 00:40:53.560 --> 00:40:56.340 Aaron McHale: right for more information. 306 00:40:57.790 --> 00:41:02.790 Aaron McHale: or how about to address the problem? Do we need to save for more information like. 307 00:41:08.500 --> 00:41:16.930 Aaron McHale: if it was just just to address the problem, go to and then link available translation updates 308 00:41:18.300 --> 00:41:21.119 Ralf Koller: cause. Necessarily, if you take a. 309 00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:27.860 Ralf Koller: for example, the case with the 11 branch where German is not available at all. 310 00:41:28.240 --> 00:41:32.730 Ralf Koller: There's nothing actionable on the page, basically. And that would be again the 311 00:41:32.900 --> 00:41:37.510 Ralf Koller: being food situation. And that way to address the problem. 312 00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:40.100 Ralf Koller: you still appear 313 00:41:40.340 --> 00:41:41.950 Aaron McHale: umhm 314 00:41:42.870 --> 00:41:49.100 Benji Fisher: how about instead of to address the problem something like and possible. Next steps 315 00:41:56.170 --> 00:41:59.319 Ralf Koller: for more information and possible. Next steps. 316 00:41:59.970 --> 00:42:00.710 Benji Fisher: Right? 317 00:42:00.890 --> 00:42:02.490 Ralf Koller: Okay. 1 s. 318 00:42:03.240 --> 00:42:09.670 Thomas Howell: Is that a bit slangish? like I didn't. I? 319 00:42:09.950 --> 00:42:14.990 Thomas Howell: Next steps is something that feels very it language. 320 00:42:16.950 --> 00:42:17.720 Benji Fisher: maybe. 321 00:42:27.010 --> 00:42:36.090 Aaron McHale: Why, I guess I'm sorry. II might have missed this earlier, because I was mildly distracted. But is there. Is there a specific reason that 322 00:42:36.460 --> 00:42:39.610 Aaron McHale: you couldn't address the problem when you go to the 323 00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:43.140 Aaron McHale: available translation? Updates. 324 00:42:44.100 --> 00:42:48.259 Ralf Koller: Which tab was it? No patch. 325 00:42:49.520 --> 00:42:51.070 Ralf Koller: isn't it? 326 00:42:51.220 --> 00:42:52.920 Ralf Koller: Yeah. 327 00:42:53.390 --> 00:42:56.470 Ralf Koller: that's the case for the 11. 328 00:42:58.220 --> 00:42:59.220 Aaron McHale: Oh. 329 00:42:59.990 --> 00:43:04.150 Ralf Koller: I'm unable to do anything there. So that's the case. 330 00:43:04.530 --> 00:43:13.940 Aaron McHale: I wonder if that's more of a it's not more of a bug, though like that. Feels like that feels like a side effect of the fact that you were running on like 331 00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:17.370 Ralf Koller: it's not given it back. 332 00:43:18.570 --> 00:43:23.930 Ralf Koller: It's not even a buck. In that case it's just no translation was created yet. There. 333 00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:27.220 Aaron McHale: it's just probably the English translation 334 00:43:27.260 --> 00:43:29.920 Ralf Koller: or the English version. 335 00:43:32.950 --> 00:43:34.580 Aaron McHale: But I wonder if 336 00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:37.640 that is 337 00:43:41.190 --> 00:43:44.169 Aaron McHale: cause that's pointing to 11 dot x right? 338 00:43:44.290 --> 00:43:50.039 Aaron McHale: And we're in the process of like moving towards a main branch. 339 00:43:50.230 --> 00:43:53.389 Aaron McHale: So I wonder if that's just another side effect of 340 00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:56.910 Aaron McHale: some of the like 341 00:43:58.380 --> 00:44:00.240 Aaron McHale: oddities of 342 00:44:02.060 --> 00:44:04.409 Aaron McHale: this process that we're in? 343 00:44:04.580 --> 00:44:19.109 Aaron McHale: I guess what I'm saying is like. Should that be filed as a separate bug to I just to highlight, this is a potentially a problem that people might run into. And it's small problem, because, like ideally, most sites will not, will be running on a released version of drupal. 344 00:44:20.510 --> 00:44:26.420 Aaron McHale: But does I guess what? Yeah. One thing is, does this need a separate issue to like highlight. Hey? This is maybe a problem. 345 00:44:29.070 --> 00:44:37.570 Benji Fisher: III think it's a bigger problem that if you're working with the 11 point X branch. 346 00:44:37.730 --> 00:44:41.719 Benji Fisher: or eventually the main branch. You can't install modules because 347 00:44:41.750 --> 00:44:52.229 Aaron McHale: they don't declare compatibility. So is that, yeah. Is that the same is that part of the same overall problem, I guess, is what I'm thinking. 348 00:44:52.510 --> 00:44:53.870 Benji Fisher: yeah, I think it is. 349 00:44:55.040 --> 00:44:59.200 Aaron McHale: Yeah. So II guess that the question for here is. 350 00:45:01.460 --> 00:45:02.500 Aaron McHale: Do 351 00:45:02.530 --> 00:45:08.560 Aaron McHale: does our text like, if we if we recognize okay, that's a problem. And it's 352 00:45:08.570 --> 00:45:10.910 Aaron McHale: ideally, it's going to be fixed. Then 353 00:45:10.950 --> 00:45:20.270 Aaron McHale: what does the text look like in that situation where this is no longer a problem. I think that's what we should be aiming for. If we recognize that this is a temporary issue. 354 00:45:22.080 --> 00:45:27.170 Aaron McHale: you know, hopefully, it's a temporary issue. And maybe we need. As I said, maybe we need a separate issue to look at that. 355 00:45:28.270 --> 00:45:31.140 Benji Fisher: Okay, let's let's let Thomas have his say. 356 00:45:32.630 --> 00:46:02.450 Thomas Howell: it's very brief. I'm just wondering. We keep on talking about German, which is, a more common language? Are there instances, or is it possible that we list languages that even in the main release are unavailable, or we? Are we updating what languages we let be chosen based like, I don't understand the 357 00:46:02.530 --> 00:46:05.070 Thomas Howell: condition 358 00:46:05.200 --> 00:46:17.499 Thomas Howell: that would even cause this outside of this edge case of 11 being in development. So if something is in main, how do languages get 359 00:46:17.620 --> 00:46:24.400 Thomas Howell: added to that picker? And how is it insured like to me? Again, this is a side 360 00:46:24.580 --> 00:46:33.920 Thomas Howell: issue, and I'm not looking to fix it. But I want to understand it so that we're making the right choice about the language to put into there or into the warning message. 361 00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:41.320 Benji Fisher: how? How we find ourselves in this situation when we're not running drupal 11 point x. And I think the answer is 362 00:46:41.340 --> 00:46:53.650 Benji Fisher: that on a real site you won't have just drupal core. You'll have some contributed modules. and you know some combination of a lesser use contributed module and a lesser use. Language. 363 00:46:53.790 --> 00:46:59.560 Benji Fisher: there won't be translations available for that module in that language. 364 00:47:00.580 --> 00:47:02.769 Benji Fisher: I think that's the more common use case. 365 00:47:04.010 --> 00:47:07.529 Ralf Koller: Let's test it with 10.2 1 s. 366 00:47:08.990 --> 00:47:12.420 Ralf Koller: because let's pick Somali 367 00:47:12.970 --> 00:47:16.689 Ralf Koller: as an example course, as you can see over here. 368 00:47:17.090 --> 00:47:18.630 Ralf Koller: 0 contributors. 369 00:47:26.090 --> 00:47:29.869 Benji Fisher: So you think, even without contrip modules. If you try to import Somali. 370 00:47:30.890 --> 00:47:33.630 Ralf Koller: No, it is not listed. Okay. 371 00:47:37.730 --> 00:47:51.470 Benji Fisher: okay. So if there are no translations for drupal core in Somali, then it's not on the list. But if there are translations for Wyan. but you install some random trip module 372 00:47:55.010 --> 00:47:55.960 Benji Fisher: notes. 373 00:47:59.060 --> 00:48:01.800 Ralf Koller: It has one. Okay. 374 00:48:10.070 --> 00:48:11.690 Ralf Koller: everybody's up to date, then 375 00:48:13.780 --> 00:48:15.360 Ralf Koller: difficult to test then. 376 00:48:25.310 --> 00:48:38.059 Ralf Koller: but definitely in regards of the requirements, there should be some threshold. basically of a certain number of translated strings before a language 377 00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:40.459 Ralf Koller: becomes listed at all 378 00:48:41.180 --> 00:48:42.360 Ralf Koller: in those lists 379 00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:48.320 Benji Fisher: it seems to be one translation is enough, that's what. 380 00:48:52.950 --> 00:48:56.860 Ralf Koller: But from a user feasibility perspective. 381 00:48:58.310 --> 00:49:01.609 Ralf Koller: it's challenging. And 382 00:49:03.590 --> 00:49:06.550 Ralf Koller: it's all already challenging. If you're 383 00:49:06.580 --> 00:49:13.720 Ralf Koller: and distracting. If you have, for example, 80% or 90% of 95, if you have single strings that are still in English. 384 00:49:13.900 --> 00:49:19.790 Ralf Koller: It's throwing you off when you try to use an interface that way. 385 00:49:20.750 --> 00:49:21.420 Benji Fisher: Correct? 386 00:49:37.910 --> 00:49:40.409 Thomas Howell: So what are our next steps? 387 00:49:43.390 --> 00:49:44.570 Benji Fisher: So 388 00:49:44.580 --> 00:49:57.109 Benji Fisher: so that's we were discussing before. You can try again later, because it might be a temporary failure to download or you can uninstall and reinstall the language. 389 00:49:58.760 --> 00:50:02.849 Benji Fisher: I don't know what other options there might be, but there are at least those 2. 390 00:50:05.240 --> 00:50:10.970 Ralf Koller: But those 2 recommendations would be placed on the reports. Page then 391 00:50:11.410 --> 00:50:12.090 Benji Fisher: right 392 00:50:12.680 --> 00:50:17.299 Ralf Koller: on here, depending on the kind of error or status 393 00:50:17.890 --> 00:50:21.309 Ralf Koller: the language in question has 394 00:50:31.600 --> 00:50:32.849 Ralf Koller: but about the 395 00:50:33.290 --> 00:50:36.859 Ralf Koller: the warning message on the 396 00:50:40.110 --> 00:50:42.770 Ralf Koller: extent page that would be 397 00:50:46.200 --> 00:50:51.430 Ralf Koller: on the first sentence, there is a consensus. I suppose some translation updates are not available. 398 00:50:53.830 --> 00:50:56.359 Ralf Koller: But in regards of the second sentence. 399 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:01.220 Benji Fisher: Alice. 400 00:51:01.610 --> 00:51:15.589 Thomas Howell: maybe like I would like it the sentence better without possible. Could we just say for more information? And next steps go to available translation updates? It like, there's there 401 00:51:15.600 --> 00:51:28.850 Thomas Howell: needs like we're assuming that something has to happen over there, and so possibly would seem to me to be a temporary state, only because that bug hasn't been fixed, so, assuming the bug is fixed. 402 00:51:29.020 --> 00:51:33.480 Thomas Howell: removing possible, would make the sentence more palatable to me. 403 00:51:42.900 --> 00:51:46.160 Aaron McHale: Should we just say for more information, go to like. 404 00:51:48.390 --> 00:51:52.110 Aaron McHale: even next steps are technically more information. 405 00:51:55.890 --> 00:51:58.789 Benji Fisher: Yeah, that's where we started. And 406 00:51:59.870 --> 00:52:12.830 Benji Fisher: and yeah, sometimes, as usual, less less is more but I guess the feeling was that we we wanted to make it 407 00:52:13.030 --> 00:52:24.119 Benji Fisher: here that there were options for fixing problem. I'm not sure I agree with that. But that. That's why we we started adding the phrase to address the problem. 408 00:52:27.570 --> 00:52:33.550 Aaron McHale: yeah. But then we realize that we can't confidently say that you can address the problem. 409 00:52:35.430 --> 00:52:38.610 Benji Fisher: I'm happy to go with charter version. 410 00:52:38.840 --> 00:52:39.760 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 411 00:52:42.640 --> 00:52:44.030 Ralf Koller: I think. Yeah. 412 00:52:46.290 --> 00:52:48.079 Benji Fisher: it always gives a thumbs up. 413 00:52:48.150 --> 00:52:49.440 Ralf Koller: Me, too. Me, too. 414 00:52:49.810 --> 00:52:50.590 Benji Fisher: Okay. 415 00:52:51.250 --> 00:52:52.120 Ralf Koller: so 416 00:52:55.790 --> 00:53:01.320 Ralf Koller: but wait insert a comma. App. Yep. 417 00:53:02.530 --> 00:53:08.629 Ralf Koller: And then the link would be available. Translation updates right? 418 00:53:08.890 --> 00:53:09.590 Like 419 00:53:18.670 --> 00:53:19.390 Ralf Koller: the 420 00:53:20.390 --> 00:53:21.270 Ralf Koller: gosh. 421 00:53:22.010 --> 00:53:26.170 Ralf Koller: it's always embarrassing when people watch your time. 422 00:53:27.160 --> 00:53:30.110 Aaron McHale: Just use the excuse that it's a Friday afternoon 423 00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:32.520 Aaron McHale: push. 424 00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:41.869 Ralf Koller: Okay, though, the end 425 00:53:42.770 --> 00:53:44.700 Ralf Koller: as a warning message. 426 00:53:46.330 --> 00:53:47.899 Ralf Koller: Yeah, it should be yeah. 427 00:53:49.380 --> 00:53:55.229 Ralf Koller: And on the available translations. relation updates 428 00:53:55.760 --> 00:54:01.309 Ralf Koller: page. The options. Potential options would be 429 00:54:04.890 --> 00:54:06.320 Benji Fisher: right again later. 430 00:54:13.550 --> 00:54:16.020 Thomas Howell: uninstall and reinstall. 431 00:54:24.990 --> 00:54:26.960 Thomas Howell: and then permanently uninstall. 432 00:54:27.610 --> 00:54:28.330 Ralf Koller: Yep. 433 00:54:36.190 --> 00:54:38.660 Ralf Koller: uninstall. It's the correct. 434 00:54:43.590 --> 00:54:45.549 Ralf Koller: Oh, no 435 00:54:46.640 --> 00:54:50.300 Ralf Koller: terminology, wise as it was adding the language so 436 00:54:51.110 --> 00:54:53.430 Ralf Koller: it would be done removing the language. 437 00:54:55.190 --> 00:54:56.160 Ralf Koller: isn't it? 438 00:54:58.340 --> 00:55:01.920 Thomas Howell: Yeah, it was. Add the you get the plus at 439 00:55:02.070 --> 00:55:08.370 Thomas Howell: language button, but then you would change, uninstall and reinstall, to add, remove, and add language. 440 00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:25.260 Thomas Howell: This is a separate issue. But would it be important to allow someone to 441 00:55:25.830 --> 00:55:33.540 Thomas Howell: put in a URL of a language they wanted to install, or that that seems wrong to me. But I just wanted to ask the question. 442 00:55:36.900 --> 00:55:38.549 Ralf Koller: is it possible at all. 443 00:55:40.510 --> 00:55:56.709 Thomas Howell: I'm assuming it's not possible right now. But would that should that be an available option that someone put in a functional link to a set of strings they want to install. I don't know if that's something that should be part of this second 444 00:55:57.430 --> 00:55:59.720 related issue that is not existing yet. 445 00:56:17.820 --> 00:56:18.620 Sure. 446 00:56:23.690 --> 00:56:29.629 Thomas Howell: if no one else has an opinion, I say, then, don't add it. This is better. 447 00:56:31.680 --> 00:56:34.039 Ralf Koller: I suppose it would open a can of worms 448 00:56:36.090 --> 00:56:37.140 Ralf Koller: potential 449 00:56:38.040 --> 00:56:40.270 Ralf Koller: problems down the road. So hmm 450 00:56:42.620 --> 00:56:59.480 Thomas Howell: would say that based upon the second pages or the available translation updates page message. my first inclination was, okay, how do I put in the yeah URL, or the Ftp. Site, or whatever to get that file. 451 00:56:59.610 --> 00:57:08.480 Thomas Howell: That was my first assumption. So the language that's on that page doesn't make it clear that that isn't an action to take. 452 00:57:12.890 --> 00:57:17.399 Benji Fisher: Surely we. We must have information on tuple.org 453 00:57:18.270 --> 00:57:23.500 Benji Fisher: so add add a link to the appropriate page rather than 454 00:57:24.600 --> 00:57:26.410 Benji Fisher: try to figure that out here. 455 00:57:28.560 --> 00:57:29.580 Thomas Howell: That's better. 456 00:57:46.360 --> 00:57:48.940 Just one question. 457 00:57:49.150 --> 00:57:51.929 Ralf Koller: so should be the suggests should be 458 00:57:53.500 --> 00:57:57.290 Ralf Koller: on that page. having basically the status 459 00:57:58.420 --> 00:58:03.769 Ralf Koller: as the first sentence. So in that case, missing, translate translations for one project 460 00:58:03.920 --> 00:58:04.840 Ralf Koller: and 461 00:58:06.420 --> 00:58:15.830 Ralf Koller: then a period, and after that the action that could be taken, based on the kind of stares there is and 462 00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:17.460 Ralf Koller: would be the wording. 463 00:58:18.660 --> 00:58:25.229 Ralf Koller: Okay, we currently have here, like, try again later, remove and re-ent the language, or probably remove them. 464 00:58:25.250 --> 00:58:28.610 Ralf Koller: or permanently. permanently remove the language. 465 00:58:30.350 --> 00:58:39.669 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I wouldn't want to repeat this. There. There might be a bunch of different languages, and I wouldn't want to repeat it for every language. I would just on it at the top. 466 00:58:40.540 --> 00:58:44.490 Benji Fisher: and and conditional on 467 00:58:46.660 --> 00:58:49.349 Benji Fisher: whether there are any missing languages. 468 00:58:51.780 --> 00:58:55.830 Aaron McHale: Feel like I'm nitpicking that. Do we really need the word permanently 469 00:58:57.180 --> 00:59:01.419 Aaron McHale: like we don't tend to use? I don't think we use that in other places. 470 00:59:08.580 --> 00:59:25.019 Aaron McHale: it's like, if if I was user, I would ask, what's the difference between removing a language and then permanently removing a language cause in one line? We talk about removing Ri add in the index line we talk about permanently removing. So I think that indicates there's some difference between like 471 00:59:25.100 --> 00:59:29.760 Aaron McHale: removing versus permanently removing. And I my gut feeling is the probably isn't. 472 00:59:34.070 --> 00:59:40.420 Benji Fisher: And I guess the the accurate description is, remove the language and then don't be added. 473 00:59:40.750 --> 00:59:42.330 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 474 00:59:43.530 --> 00:59:44.810 Aaron McHale: yeah. 475 00:59:49.240 --> 00:59:55.489 Benji Fisher: yeah, I think this is as about as close as we're going to get a and and we should not 476 00:59:56.330 --> 01:00:03.420 Benji Fisher: say that this is definitely the language you you have to use, but but just as describe it as a first draft. 477 01:00:04.680 --> 01:00:05.800 Benji Fisher: or yes. 478 01:00:06.100 --> 01:00:10.280 Ralf Koller: or something like first draft of the potential 479 01:00:12.670 --> 01:00:15.950 Ralf Koller: actionable options 480 01:00:18.210 --> 01:00:19.719 Benji Fisher: you wrote potion. 481 01:00:20.150 --> 01:00:26.250 Aaron McHale: Oh, they wasn't all the correct. 482 01:00:26.770 --> 01:00:28.860 Aaron McHale: First of all of the 483 01:00:34.710 --> 01:00:36.140 Ralf Koller: oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 484 01:00:37.130 --> 01:00:42.900 Thomas Howell: And II would include in that the comment that this 485 01:00:43.110 --> 01:00:49.839 Thomas Howell: should only be visible if under the condition that there's a missing translation for one of the languages. 486 01:00:50.570 --> 01:00:57.900 Thomas Howell: So it's not. It has to be something, an action that people need to take. Otherwise we don't want the message showing up at the top. 487 01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:05.389 Thomas Howell: and it shouldn't be under individual languages. These are just conditions that I heard Benji mentioned earlier. 488 01:01:06.640 --> 01:01:07.310 Benji Fisher: right? 489 01:01:09.070 --> 01:01:13.119 Benji Fisher: And and add a link to documentation on drupal.org. 490 01:01:24.210 --> 01:01:30.009 Aaron McHale: is it? I mean, I'm still a bit on like unsure about the word permanently there. But 491 01:01:30.920 --> 01:01:37.399 Aaron McHale: like, even if we're saying this is a first draft, it's like, if we, if we say that words there then like that. 492 01:01:37.540 --> 01:01:40.360 Aaron McHale: even if it's a draft that carries weight. So 493 01:01:41.530 --> 01:01:47.039 Aaron McHale: I don't know unless others feel strongly about it. II would suggest we don't use the word permanently. 494 01:01:47.120 --> 01:01:52.960 Thomas Howell: II don't feel. Probably. Yeah. II think it's already removed. And I'm okay with it being gone. 495 01:01:53.300 --> 01:01:55.110 Aaron McHale: Oh, I'm sorry I wasn't. 496 01:01:55.540 --> 01:01:58.960 Aaron McHale: I wasn't looking. Okay, cool, fine. 497 01:01:59.290 --> 01:02:08.859 Ralf Koller: Yeah. The only thing why, I've added the permanently was basically it's sort of redundant in your free move. And we add, yeah, remove the language. And that way. 498 01:02:09.200 --> 01:02:10.630 Ralf Koller: yeah, it is. 499 01:02:11.740 --> 01:02:14.559 Ralf Koller: It's clear somehow. But still. 500 01:02:16.930 --> 01:02:17.690 Ralf Koller: yeah. 501 01:02:18.510 --> 01:02:22.189 Aaron McHale: yeah, I know what you mean. II think. 502 01:02:22.230 --> 01:02:41.919 Aaron McHale: in the second one. We're we're clear. Look at it. Cause we could just say, Re, add the language. But it is important that we're clearly say, like, Okay, remove it, then, you know, add it again, whereas in the one below we're just saying like, remove the language. But II see what you mean, but I think I think that's better than than 503 01:02:42.250 --> 01:02:45.190 Aaron McHale: like adding adding words that. 504 01:02:45.380 --> 01:03:01.059 Aaron McHale: like the word, as I said, the word permanently implies. Then there's some kind of difference between like removing it and then permanently removing it like, can you temporarily remove it? You know. So like it implies that there is some like actual difference which in reality there isn't. But 505 01:03:01.680 --> 01:03:09.480 Aaron McHale: So I just think we we wanna avoid like confusing anyone. Yeah, I totally agree. 506 01:03:10.250 --> 01:03:18.910 Aaron McHale: But II do see what you mean as well. I don't think there's like a perfect. As I said. If this is a draft that's fine, because I don't think there's a perfect way to describe this. 507 01:03:20.860 --> 01:03:26.410 Benji Fisher: and and we should let people more familiar with the whole system to decide. 508 01:03:26.650 --> 01:03:28.700 Thomas Howell: I'm sorry. 509 01:03:29.860 --> 01:03:37.750 Benji Fisher: and and I think that Chron will automatically try to download it. So probably try again later. Is is not ideal. Go ahead, Thomas. 510 01:03:38.120 --> 01:03:45.809 Thomas Howell: Oh, you literally just said it. What does try again later. Mean? Like II know 511 01:03:45.950 --> 01:03:51.490 Thomas Howell: instinctively what it means, but it doesn't sound like. are are we seeing? 512 01:03:51.520 --> 01:04:01.629 Thomas Howell: Because to me try again later is also remove and re add, or does it mean restart like, is it? Chron? Is it restart the page? Try again later. Seems to be poor language. 513 01:04:02.260 --> 01:04:07.429 Benji Fisher: Okay, we're running up against the hour. I think this is as good as we're going to get 514 01:04:07.740 --> 01:04:14.199 Benji Fisher: with our limited topics for the problem. Ralph, are you willing to update the issue? 515 01:04:14.310 --> 01:04:28.780 Ralf Koller: Yeah, I can. The only detail. Someone of you could write me on in on slack after the meeting, or right now could quickly tell me what was the consensus, the rough consensus in regards of the log message. 516 01:04:29.200 --> 01:04:33.829 Thomas Howell: It was to use the message from the update available update page. 517 01:04:35.800 --> 01:04:40.530 Ralf Koller: Yeah. to provide more information and actionable context. 518 01:04:40.620 --> 01:04:46.809 Thomas Howell: No. It was the one that said line like German is missing. 519 01:04:48.890 --> 01:05:07.920 Thomas Howell: missing the update or something it was. There was a message on the second page, basically just grabbing that although my modification of that was, it says, missing translations, and I would have added, missing, and whatever translations are missing, that that missing translations is fine, just that same message. 520 01:05:10.510 --> 01:05:13.309 Benji Fisher: and and and also with the link to 521 01:05:13.510 --> 01:05:14.790 Benji Fisher: the report page 522 01:05:19.420 --> 01:05:20.920 Ralf Koller: report page. Okay. 523 01:05:23.820 --> 01:05:24.860 Ralf Koller: got it? 524 01:05:26.350 --> 01:05:29.009 Ralf Koller: oops! Where's this top button? 525 01:05:31.770 --> 01:05:38.570 Benji Fisher: We're a little bit over time. But thanks thanks all for this discussion. And 526 01:05:39.760 --> 01:05:43.500 Benji Fisher: I'll either see you next week or in the New Year. 527 01:05:44.090 --> 01:05:55.620 Aaron McHale: Yeah, just one final thing before we go. Since Emma's not here to tell me to shut up I would highly recommend reading the blog post that she wrote that I shared from the Ux channel. 528 01:05:55.710 --> 01:06:11.260 Aaron McHale: Really good, and it got shared by Dreis on Linkedin as well. So it is actually a great blog post about how she got involved as he as a non quote person. How she got involved in, you know. As you answer in drupal, and and what she found, and kind of why she's sticking around. So 529 01:06:11.260 --> 01:06:26.859 Aaron McHale: usability group gets a share as well. So yeah, it's well well worth the read. If anyone's got time under share do share or but yeah, have a good see all, and probably in the New Year, I think. But maybe I'll be around next week, too. Thank you. 530 01:06:27.540 --> 01:06:29.400 Thomas Howell: Thanks. Everyone. Thanks, Benji. 531 01:06:29.450 --> 01:06:31.689 Ralf Koller: And good holidays. Yeah. 532 01:06:31.820 --> 01:06:34.470 Aaron McHale: Yep, bye, bye.