WEBVTT 109 00:13:08.630 --> 00:13:23.009 benji: welcome. This is the drupal usability meeting for December 20, ninth, 2023, last one of the year. I'm Benji Fischer sharing my screen and moderating. And also here are Aaron Mikhail, Ralph Kohler and Thomas Howell. 110 00:13:23.860 --> 00:13:36.979 benji: So I think we'll start by revisiting this issue. Existing field items should not be validated when adding another item in widget for unlimited cardinality field. That's 111 00:13:37.310 --> 00:13:44.149 benji: that issue title is kind of long. The issue number for the sake of the recording is 3, 0 7, 112 00:13:44.330 --> 00:13:46.600 benji: 6, 0 5, 4, 113 00:13:48.160 --> 00:13:50.770 benji: and let me. 114 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:58.350 benji: Oh, let me share a link first in the zoom chat. 115 00:13:59.280 --> 00:14:06.960 benji: And this is the site I've set up locally 116 00:14:08.340 --> 00:14:12.110 benji: as usual. You can log in as admin admin. 117 00:14:12.890 --> 00:14:16.270 benji: and let me start with the current behavior. 118 00:14:27.170 --> 00:14:28.190 and 119 00:14:31.010 --> 00:14:34.800 benji: I guess, first let me look at the admin page. 120 00:14:40.700 --> 00:14:44.650 benji: So I started with the standard 121 00:14:45.910 --> 00:14:47.980 benji: profile, and I've added 122 00:14:48.160 --> 00:14:51.879 benji: benshi, and the issue is still shown 123 00:14:52.150 --> 00:14:55.530 Ralf Koller: and not the admin interface. 124 00:14:55.610 --> 00:14:57.239 benji: Oh, that's odd. 125 00:14:57.680 --> 00:15:04.440 benji: alright! Let me stop the screen, share and and restart it. See if that 126 00:15:04.630 --> 00:15:05.430 benji: helps. 127 00:15:06.430 --> 00:15:22.720 benji: Oh. 128 00:15:32.580 --> 00:15:36.300 benji: okay. So now you see the manage fields page. I hope. 129 00:15:37.620 --> 00:15:39.579 Ralf Koller: Yes, thank you. 130 00:15:39.780 --> 00:15:41.510 benji: And now you see the issue again. 131 00:15:43.050 --> 00:15:43.800 Ralf Koller: Yep. 132 00:15:44.050 --> 00:16:01.259 benji: okay. I know it happened. I actually had the the issue open in 2 separate windows so that I could read the instructions and and test it. Okay. So I started with the standard the standard profile, and I've added an integer field. 133 00:16:01.850 --> 00:16:06.509 benji: It has unlimited cardinality, and it's marked required. 134 00:16:07.670 --> 00:16:09.040 benji: So 135 00:16:10.790 --> 00:16:13.909 benji: here I have an article, Node. 136 00:16:15.390 --> 00:16:17.160 benji: and if I edit it. 137 00:16:18.990 --> 00:16:25.540 benji: and suppose that I know that I want to have several different 138 00:16:26.170 --> 00:16:36.029 benji: values for this multiple value. Field and I click, add another item a few times. and maybe I leave one of them blank. 139 00:16:40.610 --> 00:16:42.969 benji: and then I try to save. 140 00:16:46.800 --> 00:16:48.190 benji: That's odd. 141 00:16:51.740 --> 00:16:53.080 benji: I thought. 142 00:17:04.450 --> 00:17:08.280 benji: but I would get a validation error. 143 00:17:10.630 --> 00:17:23.659 benji: Let me read the description again, create a field, and the content type. cardinality, unlimited make. It required field. I did that create node. add another item without filling in any data. 144 00:17:28.560 --> 00:17:33.690 benji: We'll talk. Add another item by highlighting the field. But there won't be a status message. 145 00:17:39.180 --> 00:17:42.979 benji: and that did not happen. I 146 00:17:47.790 --> 00:17:54.110 benji: add another item as many times as I like, and I did not get the behavior described on the issue. 147 00:17:54.760 --> 00:17:59.539 benji: So is it possible that something has changed since this 148 00:17:59.730 --> 00:18:01.850 benji: since last time we went to this issue. Go ahead. 149 00:18:01.980 --> 00:18:05.549 Ralf Koller: Could you leave the first value empty? 150 00:18:05.980 --> 00:18:07.789 Clear the first value. 151 00:18:08.120 --> 00:18:11.679 Ralf Koller: I think. There, I noticed the issue. Still. 152 00:18:18.780 --> 00:18:21.460 Thomas Howell: you might want to start with something brand new. 153 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:25.610 Thomas Howell: Just apply to content type or content. Visconti. 154 00:18:44.830 --> 00:18:45.740 benji: Okay. 155 00:18:48.310 --> 00:18:55.689 benji: so good. Good point. It's when you don't currently have anything in the field and you click the add another item button. 156 00:18:56.230 --> 00:19:02.979 benji: You get this highlighted. This field gets highlighted. But there's no message. 157 00:19:04.050 --> 00:19:07.130 benji: Okay. so that's the current behavior. 158 00:19:07.360 --> 00:19:19.560 Thomas Howell: I have 2 brief questions about additional tests. 159 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:32.239 Thomas Howell: it doesn't describe what happens if you don't make the integer field required. So is that same error gonna get thrown with integer not required. 160 00:19:32.740 --> 00:19:34.590 Thomas Howell: And 161 00:19:35.080 --> 00:19:54.510 Thomas Howell: what happens in the event that you put one? So you put 19 here? Does that only happen if the first thing is required and it's blank. So is this the only situation which that occurs? Okay, let's see. So I'm I'm still on the 162 00:19:55.190 --> 00:19:59.610 benji: current branch if I don't make it required. That was your first question. Right? 163 00:20:00.630 --> 00:20:01.550 Thomas Howell: Correct? 164 00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:09.330 benji: 8. Forced to load the page just in case. 165 00:20:14.670 --> 00:20:15.650 and 166 00:20:16.750 --> 00:20:23.639 benji: if it's not required, then I can go ahead and add several. So that answers your first question right? 167 00:20:27.780 --> 00:20:28.940 benji: And you're muted. 168 00:20:29.710 --> 00:20:49.569 Thomas Howell: And then what was the second question, II don't think the second question matters, because I think the other instance basically tested is, if you feel, fill out just the first field do the subsequent ones work without the error. So the only situation that throws an error, and the only question I bring that up is 169 00:20:49.620 --> 00:20:57.520 Thomas Howell: I needed to know that, for when we're reviewing the potential fix, so I don't think you need my second test. Thank you. Okay. 170 00:20:58.110 --> 00:21:00.120 benji: so let me 171 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:06.820 benji: switch to the merge request 172 00:21:07.710 --> 00:21:10.920 benji: or reload the page again. 173 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:27.170 benji: And now 174 00:21:27.410 --> 00:21:28.680 benji: so 175 00:21:28.870 --> 00:21:33.790 benji: it's still not marked required. So the behavior doesn't really change. 176 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:38.559 benji: But if I 177 00:21:41.850 --> 00:21:43.009 benji: edit it 178 00:21:43.520 --> 00:21:45.449 and make it required again. 179 00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:49.360 benji: Save the settings. 180 00:21:57.100 --> 00:22:03.800 benji: So now it's it's again required. You see, the little asterisk next to the field name. 181 00:22:06.860 --> 00:22:10.249 benji: and I can go ahead and and add additional elements. 182 00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:11.920 benji: So 183 00:22:13.550 --> 00:22:17.250 benji: so that's 184 00:22:18.170 --> 00:22:24.299 benji: that's the intended change. can now. and things 185 00:22:25.040 --> 00:22:27.680 benji: even if the 186 00:22:27.690 --> 00:22:29.730 benji: first one is empathy. 187 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:40.120 benji: So I think we we reviewed this before and agreed. that this was a good change. Does anyone 188 00:22:41.630 --> 00:22:46.690 benji: want to revisit that discussion or ask further questions 189 00:22:46.710 --> 00:22:47.859 benji: for context. 190 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:51.910 benji: And the reason this issue 191 00:22:52.300 --> 00:22:55.309 benji: came up again is that 192 00:22:55.850 --> 00:23:00.390 benji: someone noticed some manual testing a little bit of odd behavior. 193 00:23:01.120 --> 00:23:05.220 benji: And let me go back to the 194 00:23:05.790 --> 00:23:06.920 benji: issue. 195 00:23:07.380 --> 00:23:09.279 benji: And it's number 18, 196 00:23:12.140 --> 00:23:19.300 benji: right? It says, number 78, where it was first pointed out, and 80 gives explicit steps to reproduce. 197 00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:27.530 benji: So I've done the first 2 steps. create new article press, add another item. 198 00:23:28.810 --> 00:23:34.080 benji: enter number value in the second field, leaving the first one blank and try to save. 199 00:23:35.600 --> 00:23:37.450 benji: So what happens now? 200 00:23:39.980 --> 00:23:43.180 benji: And I guess I should put in the title. 201 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:53.989 benji: and when I save I will get a validation error in the first field. 202 00:23:58.800 --> 00:23:59.630 and 203 00:24:03.860 --> 00:24:07.180 benji: and it's it's only the first field. If 204 00:24:10.420 --> 00:24:12.810 benji: I have something 205 00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:22.210 benji: in the first and third field, for example, then the empty second field is not going to trigger. And there, let me say, it's no problem. 206 00:24:24.500 --> 00:24:25.700 benji: So 207 00:24:28.090 --> 00:24:32.430 benji: so the question is whether fixing that 208 00:24:33.470 --> 00:24:38.259 benji: can be postponed to a follow-up issue. or whether. 209 00:24:39.330 --> 00:24:42.050 benji: now that we've given the 210 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.330 benji: ability to add a bunch of empty fields. 211 00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:50.899 benji: whether we have to fix that behavior as part of the current issue. 212 00:24:51.040 --> 00:24:52.300 benji: Go ahead, Ralph. 213 00:24:52.710 --> 00:25:02.600 Ralf Koller: Just one edition in point number 8. I could always late also suggested a step to. If you add 214 00:25:02.710 --> 00:25:10.729 Ralf Koller: a new node and apply those steps to add the no validate attribute to the form element in devtools 215 00:25:11.050 --> 00:25:12.889 Ralf Koller: and try to save them again. 216 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:46.330 benji: And it's an attribute right 217 00:26:03.370 --> 00:26:05.639 benji: that right. No validate equals true 218 00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:13.110 benji: adding the no validate attribute to the form. 219 00:26:13.130 --> 00:26:17.770 benji: to the former, to the input, I'm adding it to the input well, let's try this. 220 00:26:26.090 --> 00:26:28.509 benji: Okay? So maybe 221 00:26:30.190 --> 00:26:33.529 benji: it has to be added to the form element. 222 00:26:34.830 --> 00:26:38.760 benji: Table, table, body, table row, I guess forms 223 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:51.790 benji: form. Here's the form element. 224 00:27:00.740 --> 00:27:02.820 benji: 8. 225 00:27:04.380 --> 00:27:05.260 benji: True. 226 00:27:08.270 --> 00:27:09.230 benji: Write that. 227 00:27:17.320 --> 00:27:19.799 benji: Where did that work? 228 00:27:39.710 --> 00:27:46.490 benji: Id class data, triple selector, blah, blah blah method 229 00:27:48.670 --> 00:27:50.640 benji: data tuple once 230 00:27:53.070 --> 00:27:58.070 benji: here it is no validate equals. True. 231 00:28:17.610 --> 00:28:20.470 benji: No, it seems to be given the validation error. 232 00:28:23.700 --> 00:28:25.620 benji: despite adding. 233 00:28:27.710 --> 00:28:30.239 benji: and no validate unless 234 00:28:37.150 --> 00:28:39.119 benji: unless the page reloaded. 235 00:28:55.330 --> 00:28:58.180 I guess I guess the page keeps reloading. 236 00:29:26.010 --> 00:29:28.119 benji: and then I get an error message 237 00:29:31.350 --> 00:29:35.279 benji: rather than a a validation message. 238 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:45.780 So any other 239 00:29:45.830 --> 00:29:48.290 benji: questions or tests to to run. 240 00:30:01.510 --> 00:30:10.459 benji: And it's this special behavior of the first element. I can leave any of the others empty. 241 00:30:18.990 --> 00:30:22.519 benji: and it saves with no error. But the the first one 242 00:30:23.280 --> 00:30:30.749 benji: is is still marked wired, I guess 243 00:30:48.310 --> 00:30:52.419 benji: so is that something that should be fixed as part of this issue? Or 244 00:30:52.900 --> 00:30:56.730 benji: is the improvement here? Enough that it's a step 245 00:30:56.920 --> 00:30:58.620 benji: forward, and we can 246 00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:02.779 benji: defer this to a follow up issue. 247 00:31:06.850 --> 00:31:08.700 benji: Go ahead, Thomas. 248 00:31:09.020 --> 00:31:15.990 Thomas Howell: Very briefly. The only concern that I have is the law of unintended consequences. 249 00:31:16.490 --> 00:31:24.560 Thomas Howell: because I don't understand what exactly the patches change like. Where are the patches changing the code? 250 00:31:24.690 --> 00:31:30.280 Thomas Howell: That's the only point that make what I'm seeing looks reasonable. 251 00:31:30.290 --> 00:31:31.820 Thomas Howell: So I give it a thumbs up. 252 00:31:32.610 --> 00:31:37.270 benji: Okay, well, we we are not responsible for code review, or 253 00:31:37.810 --> 00:31:49.249 benji: I guess we're not even responsible for unintended consequences. That's part of the job of code reviews. So just the the behavior we see. 254 00:31:49.420 --> 00:31:53.149 benji: You, you you vote that this is 255 00:31:53.290 --> 00:31:55.470 benji: good enough and you're giving the thumbs up. 256 00:31:56.110 --> 00:32:08.939 benji: I think I agree. it's a step forward. I'd like to see this fixed, but I think it could be deferred. 257 00:32:10.330 --> 00:32:13.800 benji: Aaron. Ralph, agree. Disagree not fair. 258 00:32:15.700 --> 00:32:20.449 Aaron McHale: I don't have strong feelings, but I everything so far sounds sounds good. 259 00:32:20.980 --> 00:32:21.730 benji: Okay. 260 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:23.870 Ralf Koller: same from my end. 261 00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:27.560 benji: Okay? Okay, I will 262 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:33.510 benji: add a comment saying that that. We think it can be done in the follow up issue. 263 00:32:34.840 --> 00:32:43.549 benji: So let's see. So we wanted to have a 264 00:32:43.860 --> 00:32:50.389 benji: hopefully, a quick look at the issue. We talked. I think it was 2 weeks ago, maybe was one week ago. 265 00:32:51.040 --> 00:32:52.319 Ralf Koller: It was last week. 266 00:32:52.420 --> 00:32:54.040 benji: It was okay. 267 00:32:54.970 --> 00:32:58.250 benji: Do you want to share your screen, or shall I find the issue? 268 00:32:58.620 --> 00:33:01.679 Ralf Koller: I could I could 1 s 269 00:33:04.410 --> 00:33:15.600 Ralf Koller: Shall I reset my instance and let me take another look or no, it doesn't have. Listen. Sorry. 1 s 270 00:33:18.500 --> 00:33:20.430 Ralf Koller: share my screen. 271 00:33:30.530 --> 00:33:32.490 Are you able to see my screen now? 272 00:33:34.600 --> 00:33:35.610 benji: Yes. 273 00:33:46.320 --> 00:33:47.630 Ralf Koller: 1 s. 274 00:33:55.360 --> 00:33:56.050 Yes. 275 00:33:56.610 --> 00:33:57.840 Ralf Koller: Awning message. 276 00:33:59.690 --> 00:34:09.129 Ralf Koller: the thing Benji and I discussed after last week's meeting was basically in Benjy 277 00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:10.879 Ralf Koller: at the idea of 278 00:34:11.650 --> 00:34:18.709 Ralf Koller: instead of being forward to the available translations page and getting 1 s versus another screenshot. 279 00:34:18.989 --> 00:34:23.389 Ralf Koller: something like 280 00:34:24.909 --> 00:34:40.689 Ralf Koller: that over here with missing translations for one project, and the users know actual call to action. How to fix that missing translation. The fix is basically to check manually, to press that check manually button. And then 281 00:34:41.110 --> 00:34:43.699 Ralf Koller: you get basically to that page. 282 00:34:43.750 --> 00:34:45.170 Ralf Koller: And the idea is 283 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:55.959 Ralf Koller: on the extent page. Have a info info message with check available translations for your language 284 00:34:55.989 --> 00:35:11.349 Ralf Koller: in parentheses S languages, and that forwards directly instead of a site. Admin reports, translations to admin reports, translation, slash check. And that way, 285 00:35:12.120 --> 00:35:14.219 Ralf Koller: available updates or 286 00:35:14.410 --> 00:35:21.559 Ralf Koller: translation files are checked for. And that way the user directly gets an actionable 287 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:25.009 Ralf Koller: state where the person is able to 288 00:35:25.120 --> 00:35:32.250 Ralf Koller: update the translation. In that case install the transmit translation files. And that's basically 289 00:35:32.990 --> 00:35:41.469 Ralf Koller: The change to the recommendations and suggestions we came up during the meeting last week. 290 00:35:41.610 --> 00:35:49.490 benji: Okay, Ralph, for the sake of the recording, can you? I put the link to the issue in this chat. 291 00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:53.230 Ralf Koller: Yeah, 1 s with the chat. There it is. 292 00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:56.950 Ralf Koller: That was the wrong. 293 00:35:59.010 --> 00:36:10.790 Ralf Koller: It is issue number 2, 6, 0 9, 2, 5, 6 add warning message to import translations after enabling interface translation. 294 00:36:27.180 --> 00:36:32.700 benji: So II think a couple of things that Ralph and I realized after recording is that 295 00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:34.620 benji: first of all. 296 00:36:34.690 --> 00:36:38.230 benji: we should not test with 297 00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:52.540 benji: 1111 point x the development branch, because, the the 11 point x's version is is recognized, and there are no translations for 11 point x. So you have to. 298 00:36:52.760 --> 00:37:03.380 benji: Sort of start with the 10.2 point x branch and make the changes from from the merge request before testing. 299 00:37:03.520 --> 00:37:07.549 benji: And the second thing is that once you've done that 300 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:12.870 benji: clicking on the link that says check translations. 301 00:37:13.220 --> 00:37:16.130 benji: brings up this 302 00:37:16.500 --> 00:37:22.009 benji: form where you can actually do something. You can download the translations. 303 00:37:23.250 --> 00:37:33.230 benji: and so the the 2 recommendations are are one in the message. 304 00:37:33.680 --> 00:37:44.809 benji: give, give a link that has the same effect as clicking the check translations link. and to change it from a warning message to an info message 305 00:37:45.150 --> 00:37:47.339 benji: is that is that a fair summary, Ralph? 306 00:37:47.940 --> 00:37:51.629 Ralf Koller: Yeah. And the microcopy changed as well. 307 00:37:51.940 --> 00:37:56.649 benji: Alright, yeah. Be be because we're going to a different link. 308 00:37:56.750 --> 00:38:00.890 benji: make make the message check available translations. 309 00:38:02.240 --> 00:38:13.760 Ralf Koller: The message before was the following, oops. we're here go to available translation updates in order to download translations for your language. and 310 00:38:14.950 --> 00:38:16.730 Ralf Koller: it became a bit briefer. 311 00:38:18.790 --> 00:38:25.660 Ralf Koller: I just try to avoid updates, cause it still feels odd to me 312 00:38:25.730 --> 00:38:32.030 Ralf Koller: personally, therefore, I voted for it is because basically, at that point you don't have 313 00:38:32.120 --> 00:38:38.090 Ralf Koller: anything in regards of German interface translation installed at all, and therefore updates 314 00:38:39.140 --> 00:38:41.629 Ralf Koller: someone's technically technically wrong. 315 00:38:46.040 --> 00:38:51.750 Ralf Koller: If any one of you has other opinions in that regard of the microcopy, then 316 00:38:52.470 --> 00:38:54.340 Ralf Koller: feel free to voice it. 317 00:38:56.210 --> 00:38:57.250 benji: Go ahead, Thomas. 318 00:38:57.910 --> 00:39:04.329 Thomas Howell: Thanks. The only quibble I have is that the name of the page? 319 00:39:04.630 --> 00:39:11.169 Thomas Howell: At least. And I don't know if it's the title I can't see, because you're over the other window. 320 00:39:11.180 --> 00:39:12.330 Thomas Howell: Van Horn's. 321 00:39:12.350 --> 00:39:23.330 Thomas Howell: So it's just called translations in the URL, but it says available translation updates and then the so I mean, like. 322 00:39:23.860 --> 00:39:27.600 Thomas Howell: is it a follow up issue. I mean, this says, updates. 323 00:39:28.710 --> 00:39:31.849 Thomas Howell: well, that's yeah. I mean, I just 324 00:39:33.110 --> 00:39:35.369 Thomas Howell: the reason the yeah. URL link 325 00:39:35.430 --> 00:39:38.159 Thomas Howell: in the warning message 326 00:39:39.160 --> 00:39:47.649 Thomas Howell: is pointing to something that talks about updates. But it doesn't. In your suggestion. I mean, I like your suggestion. It just 327 00:39:47.710 --> 00:39:51.370 Thomas Howell: is a little bit confusing, because this isn't called available translations. 328 00:39:51.490 --> 00:39:54.099 Thomas Howell: That's the only concern I have. 329 00:39:58.540 --> 00:40:02.450 benji: Okay. So so you like the idea of 330 00:40:03.020 --> 00:40:04.759 benji: doing the check. 331 00:40:06.420 --> 00:40:07.150 And 332 00:40:07.870 --> 00:40:12.649 benji: we should still consider the exact text of the message? 333 00:40:12.990 --> 00:40:17.279 benji: should we make the word check part of the link? 334 00:40:25.100 --> 00:40:33.230 benji: Does does that make it clear that we're we're actually performing an action and not just going to a page. The action we're performing is 335 00:40:34.730 --> 00:40:35.430 benji: go ahead. 336 00:40:36.710 --> 00:40:43.279 Thomas Howell: that makes it different than oh, and it would match things like run chron, etcetera. 337 00:40:44.410 --> 00:41:03.759 Thomas Howell: Check manually. Yeah. Because that then fat fits the pattern of no update available information available. Run Chron, or check manually. So yeah, it would fit that pattern, though, I would drop available translations to lower case available. And that's really trivial. But I would do 338 00:41:04.170 --> 00:41:09.240 Thomas Howell: uppercase check, lower case available translations, and then that would 339 00:41:09.450 --> 00:41:18.799 Thomas Howell: easily fit my expectations right? And the point about the capitalization is that if we're going to capitalize it, we should make it the full page title. 340 00:41:18.920 --> 00:41:28.179 benji: because the reason for capitalizing it is that it is a page title, and if we're not going to use the full page title, then you think we we should not capitalize. And 341 00:41:33.930 --> 00:41:35.490 benji: Aaron, did you want to say something? 342 00:41:37.330 --> 00:41:40.550 Thomas Howell: He put a message in chat. Oh. 343 00:41:41.060 --> 00:41:44.709 benji: yes, in general we'll introduce the same text as the name of the page 344 00:41:47.370 --> 00:41:59.460 Thomas Howell: does run cron link to a page called Runcron, and check manually. Go to a page called Check manually. 345 00:42:00.380 --> 00:42:03.720 benji: certainly check manually does not go to 346 00:42:04.030 --> 00:42:10.300 benji: a page with that title. It it runs the check, and then it reloads this this page with the same title. 347 00:42:17.980 --> 00:42:22.909 benji: and I think, run Cron manually pretty sure that reloads the status page 348 00:42:23.100 --> 00:42:24.369 benji: after running chrome. 349 00:42:29.260 --> 00:42:39.069 benji: Okay, so do we do. We have consensus on making the link text check available translations with only the first letter capitalized. 350 00:42:43.310 --> 00:42:45.200 benji: Get a thumbs up from Thomas. 351 00:42:52.570 --> 00:42:55.289 benji: Ralph pasted the proposed 352 00:42:55.660 --> 00:42:58.410 benji: text in the chat 353 00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:08.539 benji: check available translations for your languages, the S in parentheses. and only the first letter capitalized. Get a thumbs up from Ralph. 354 00:43:10.130 --> 00:43:12.340 benji: Okay? And I. 355 00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:18.949 benji: So so we agree that we should do the check. We agree on the link text. 356 00:43:19.640 --> 00:43:25.609 benji: I think it should be an info message or status message rather than a warning message. Every disagree 357 00:43:26.820 --> 00:43:30.860 benji: thumbs up from Aaron thumbs up from Thomas 358 00:43:31.680 --> 00:43:37.900 Ralf Koller: and Ralph. I think you said you didn't feel strongly. Yeah, no strong opinion in that regard on my end. 359 00:43:38.140 --> 00:43:38.940 benji: Okay. 360 00:43:48.580 --> 00:43:51.800 benji: alright, so that was quick. 361 00:43:52.010 --> 00:44:01.020 Ralf Koller: I'll finish the comment after the meeting and post on the issue of them. 362 00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:02.460 benji: Great! Thank you. 363 00:44:24.310 --> 00:44:27.690 benji: A share my screen again. 364 00:44:36.290 --> 00:44:44.199 benji: So this was suggested in slack users could not find the change. Password fields. 365 00:44:44.540 --> 00:44:48.909 benji: It's issue 1, 2, 5, 9, 8, 9, 2, 366 00:44:50.490 --> 00:44:56.769 benji: and Steven must grave. Suggested in slack, that we have another look at this. 367 00:44:57.130 --> 00:45:09.709 benji: hit already. Look at it! 368 00:45:10.160 --> 00:45:12.730 benji: Oh, my gosh! This is an old! If she wasn't dead. 369 00:45:14.370 --> 00:45:16.079 benji: Let's add it back. 370 00:45:28.730 --> 00:45:32.090 benji: There was review in 2,017. 371 00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:43.489 benji: There was another review in by me in 2021 a little more recent. some further comments by Aaron and by me. 372 00:45:45.080 --> 00:45:53.570 benji: And then, just a few days ago. as must be, suggested. 373 00:45:54.650 --> 00:45:55.920 benji: another look. 374 00:45:56.690 --> 00:46:09.500 benji: because it's a big change. And I guess there's been further work on it since then. so let's 375 00:46:09.950 --> 00:46:11.599 benji: I haven't looked this 376 00:46:14.430 --> 00:46:16.550 benji: recently as the proposed 377 00:46:16.670 --> 00:46:25.999 benji: resolution been updated. The proposed resolution from number 1, 76, and 1 77 are those fairly current comments. 378 00:46:26.670 --> 00:46:29.160 Ralf Koller: Those are from the Usability Review. 379 00:46:29.420 --> 00:46:30.370 benji: Okay. 380 00:46:31.720 --> 00:46:36.120 benji: I supply the patch 381 00:46:36.290 --> 00:46:37.439 Ralf Koller: on the side here. 382 00:46:39.890 --> 00:46:41.620 benji: So 383 00:46:43.890 --> 00:46:50.019 benji: okay. So why don't we? First? Before I give you the screen share? Why don't I 384 00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:52.310 benji: test it on my site. 385 00:46:54.050 --> 00:46:55.270 benji: So 386 00:46:57.180 --> 00:47:00.580 benji: I think the point is to go to your user 387 00:47:03.300 --> 00:47:06.670 benji: profile and 388 00:47:10.100 --> 00:47:13.629 benji: users could not find the change. Password fields 389 00:47:14.620 --> 00:47:24.569 benji: during usability tests. Users logged into Tuple could not determine how to update their account password. They did not understand that the existing password and confirm password fields 390 00:47:24.940 --> 00:47:27.839 benji: serves the purpose of a password update 391 00:47:28.630 --> 00:47:36.190 benji: So there's the current password field up here. 392 00:47:36.210 --> 00:47:40.789 benji: and there's the password field down here. 393 00:47:41.770 --> 00:47:51.550 benji: And I guess the idea is that you want to change your password. You have to type in your current password up here. 394 00:47:51.860 --> 00:47:55.619 benji: and then the new password here. 395 00:48:00.390 --> 00:48:04.090 benji: and then, having entered it once, you have to confirm it here. 396 00:48:09.130 --> 00:48:15.340 benji: so any questions about the context of the issue, that this is a rather 397 00:48:15.570 --> 00:48:16.980 benji: confusing 398 00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:21.460 benji: form, if that's what you want to do. 399 00:48:22.010 --> 00:48:23.280 benji: Thomas. 400 00:48:24.090 --> 00:48:27.990 Thomas Howell: So the the only question I have is. 401 00:48:28.370 --> 00:48:41.159 Thomas Howell: was it ever explored? In testing with users just changing the wording from password to new password and confirm new password 402 00:48:43.780 --> 00:48:46.599 Thomas Howell: like that part. That that solution 403 00:48:47.660 --> 00:48:59.159 Thomas Howell: III didn't see if it was actually tested or if they just went to wanting to to go with the fix that they chose like, how did they land on the chosen fix? 404 00:49:00.220 --> 00:49:02.520 benji: I'm not aware of 405 00:49:04.130 --> 00:49:08.130 benji: of any such user testing. II don't know if 406 00:49:10.050 --> 00:49:13.509 benji: if they consider changing the label of this field. 407 00:49:14.330 --> 00:49:15.110 Yeah. 408 00:49:15.780 --> 00:49:17.020 benji: Ralph, go ahead. 409 00:49:18.700 --> 00:49:23.750 Ralf Koller: In regards of the label of the field. 410 00:49:24.190 --> 00:49:26.349 Ralf Koller: I have to look it up. But 411 00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:33.759 Ralf Koller: when we've discussed it before, I think I've already opened issues for 412 00:49:33.860 --> 00:49:44.850 Ralf Koller: update the label, make it more actionable in particular for the installer as well as on that page, with different wordings to use 413 00:49:44.980 --> 00:49:48.649 Ralf Koller: verbs instead of just a noun like password. 414 00:49:48.980 --> 00:49:53.469 Ralf Koller: that is one thing 415 00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:58.850 Ralf Koller: but I can look it up and post the links later and slack. 416 00:49:59.530 --> 00:50:03.829 Ralf Koller: In regards of the issue itself. 417 00:50:07.300 --> 00:50:11.580 Ralf Koller: the the reason I'm I've also race the 418 00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:34.350 Ralf Koller: points to bring to discuss to rediscus it last week. The reason is cause it's as as you've seen Benji when you've entered the password, you have to re-enter the password, and there is also another issue. I can post the link which got quite a lot of momentum the last few weeks. 419 00:50:34.890 --> 00:50:38.440 Ralf Koller: which is about 420 00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:42.210 Ralf Koller: hide and show the password field. 421 00:50:45.740 --> 00:50:49.740 benji: So this is issue 1, 2, 5, 9, 8, 9, 2 422 00:50:50.210 --> 00:50:52.700 Ralf Koller: oops. It's this is the wrong 423 00:50:53.250 --> 00:50:54.739 benji: oops. 1 s 424 00:50:54.780 --> 00:50:57.410 Ralf Koller: posted the wrong issue. 425 00:51:02.260 --> 00:51:05.110 Ralf Koller: I'll achieve that one, and it is 426 00:51:07.110 --> 00:51:08.670 Ralf Koller: 2 to 9, 427 00:51:08.920 --> 00:51:11.350 Ralf Koller: 3 h. 0 3. 428 00:51:13.420 --> 00:51:19.880 Ralf Koller: Replace, confirm password element with new password element, with show, hide, functionality. And that way. 429 00:51:21.740 --> 00:51:24.219 Ralf Koller: you have to enter a password only once. 430 00:51:25.710 --> 00:51:27.990 Ralf Koller: But you have the ability to 431 00:51:28.430 --> 00:51:29.260 Ralf Koller: show it. 432 00:51:35.540 --> 00:51:39.469 benji: Okay, there are. Yes, a bunch of related issues. 433 00:51:40.520 --> 00:51:46.220 benji: so so why don't I let you share your screen now? And and you can 434 00:51:47.460 --> 00:51:49.619 benji: demonstrate? 435 00:51:56.680 --> 00:52:02.479 Ralf Koller: I'm now on the edit page, and, as you can see. 436 00:52:02.780 --> 00:52:09.810 Ralf Koller: you have the username status block rules, picture content settings, local settings. Then you have the changed password 437 00:52:10.190 --> 00:52:12.010 Ralf Koller: which has the current password 438 00:52:12.850 --> 00:52:19.359 Ralf Koller: and at the moment 439 00:52:20.380 --> 00:52:28.670 Ralf Koller: you get the confirm password as well, because I haven't tried to apply both patches at once, and I doubt that it will work out. And 440 00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:32.600 Ralf Koller: you have to change email 441 00:52:33.620 --> 00:52:36.070 option where you again have the current password 442 00:52:36.580 --> 00:52:40.790 Ralf Koller: up at the top, and the email address underneath. 443 00:52:41.020 --> 00:52:41.980 Ralf Koller: So 444 00:52:42.290 --> 00:52:47.290 Ralf Koller: those got moved out from the edit profile. That's basically what the patch is about. 445 00:52:48.230 --> 00:52:54.820 Ralf Koller: Just in the context. Back then, when we've discussed, I just remembered, is 446 00:52:55.250 --> 00:53:00.339 Ralf Koller: another way, but maybe something for the future. 447 00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:06.940 Ralf Koller: the following issue introduces a submit confirmation stepmodel to form api for usability 448 00:53:08.890 --> 00:53:11.370 Ralf Koller: which brought up the idea 449 00:53:13.350 --> 00:53:15.149 Ralf Koller: to have a 450 00:53:15.530 --> 00:53:18.690 Ralf Koller: confirmation step, not only for that 451 00:53:20.070 --> 00:53:24.990 Ralf Koller: edit profile page, but also for other aspects and drupal. 452 00:53:25.690 --> 00:53:29.830 Ralf Koller: where you have a dialogue model, where you have to enter 453 00:53:30.070 --> 00:53:33.489 Ralf Koller: a confirmation either for deletion or 454 00:53:34.230 --> 00:53:36.480 Ralf Koller: for for passwords, and so forth. 455 00:53:36.910 --> 00:53:39.939 Ralf Koller: that one I just wanted to bring up again as well. 456 00:53:40.520 --> 00:53:42.489 Ralf Koller: Oops there wants to go. 457 00:53:50.450 --> 00:54:02.599 benji: So a few quick comments. There are a lot of issues for moving things into bodles. And I wonder whether we're going overboard on that but 458 00:54:03.210 --> 00:54:14.949 benji: To answer that question would would not be quick. But maybe something to to think about or talk about at a future meeting. Another, you know. 459 00:54:15.160 --> 00:54:28.229 benji: quick comment that leads to a longer discussion is that, as Ralph points out, there are a bunch of related issues. and we should really consider them holistically, we should consider them together. 460 00:54:29.620 --> 00:54:33.979 benji: But we only have 10 min left. So 461 00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:37.470 benji: let's see if we have any 462 00:54:37.910 --> 00:54:50.070 benji: comments on on the current issue which is to separate out the change password and change email into separate forms, local tasks or sub tabs 463 00:54:50.140 --> 00:54:52.829 benji: on the user edit form. Go ahead, Aaron. 464 00:54:53.540 --> 00:55:03.579 Aaron McHale: Thanks. I I'm a, you know I support. I definitely support this change. I think, either way, whether whether these move into models in the future. 465 00:55:03.730 --> 00:55:21.349 Aaron McHale: or whether they says Tabs, the fact that we're that we're splitting up into different forms. That would make that easier, anyway. But also the this form, this user form, we know, is can be quite overwhelming. There's a lot going on. So so separating those out is is a good thing. 466 00:55:21.550 --> 00:55:26.350 Aaron McHale: I would just make a couple of small wording suggestions 467 00:55:26.710 --> 00:55:35.850 Aaron McHale: but the to do with the tabs. So you go into the edit tab and the can I ask you to hold off on on the wording suggestions? 468 00:55:36.100 --> 00:55:37.449 Aaron McHale: Oh, sure, yeah. 469 00:55:38.380 --> 00:55:41.210 benji: Ralph, what did you want to say. 470 00:55:42.770 --> 00:55:47.360 Ralf Koller: I would also say something, regardless of wording. So 471 00:55:47.580 --> 00:55:50.120 Ralf Koller: Aaron should go on and keep going. 472 00:55:51.040 --> 00:55:56.989 Ralf Koller: and the and the link I've posted in the chat was just in regards of other the other comment. Aaron made 473 00:55:57.220 --> 00:56:01.359 Ralf Koller: about the user profile in general and 474 00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:07.330 Ralf Koller: just wanted to bring up the ideas issue again, where we've collected the different issues 475 00:56:07.720 --> 00:56:10.480 Ralf Koller: and to tackle that holistically 476 00:56:11.130 --> 00:56:17.879 benji: okay. And and the general principle that Aaron often brings up is that a single form should not try to do too much, and that 477 00:56:19.100 --> 00:56:26.350 benji: and that's why I'm not all surprised that Aaron is in favor of this change. Thomas, do do you want to say something before we discuss the wording? 478 00:56:26.630 --> 00:56:31.210 Thomas Howell: Yes, very briefly, I'm sorry. But 479 00:56:31.610 --> 00:56:34.650 Thomas Howell: conceptually I'm trying to remember 480 00:56:34.830 --> 00:56:43.179 Thomas Howell: how this page, so I know that we have that password at the top of the old form. So without the patch. 481 00:56:43.200 --> 00:56:56.590 Thomas Howell: because all of the actions on the page essentially are protected. And so I know there are other sites like, if I'm using my Mac OS, and I make configuration change, you have to unlock it 482 00:56:56.760 --> 00:57:05.609 Thomas Howell: and enter your password to make changes to the form for something that is permissions related. That's the way I think of the unpatched version of this. 483 00:57:06.280 --> 00:57:28.439 Thomas Howell: And so the question I have is, do we need? Are are we re-entering that password to change the password, re-entering that password to change the email, re-entering the password to edit this profile cause I don't see that I I'm assuming you can change the roles and status without entering the password. Is that a structural change. 484 00:57:28.670 --> 00:57:30.670 Thomas Howell: Like, should we need 485 00:57:30.780 --> 00:57:36.169 Thomas Howell: entering in the current password to make changes to the first tab is a more accurate question. 486 00:57:38.140 --> 00:57:40.300 benji: Yeah, these are separate forms. 487 00:57:40.980 --> 00:57:49.670 benji: The the main user profile form does not require you to re-enter your password. 488 00:57:49.940 --> 00:57:54.660 benji: If you're logged in, then you can change anything 489 00:57:55.000 --> 00:58:04.429 benji: on this form, just as currently you can change anything on the form. But with the exception of your your password or your email address. 490 00:58:04.740 --> 00:58:12.419 benji: But you can add a profile picture. You can change your contact settings, your locale settings without re-entering your password. 491 00:58:12.680 --> 00:58:13.760 Thomas Howell: and we can 492 00:58:13.820 --> 00:58:19.540 Thomas Howell: can change the role settings in the current form without entering a password. 493 00:58:19.990 --> 00:58:24.069 benji: Right? If if you're an admin user, most users wouldn't have that option. 494 00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:29.420 Aaron McHale: That's one thing that made the current forms so confusing. 495 00:58:29.980 --> 00:58:33.170 Aaron McHale: Sometimes you acquired passwords, sometimes not. 496 00:58:34.220 --> 00:58:35.520 Thomas Howell: Okay, thank you. 497 00:58:35.650 --> 00:58:41.450 benji: Right? And and and then the the separate tabs are 498 00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:48.439 benji: separate pages, separate forms. So. re-entering your password on, one does not 499 00:58:49.140 --> 00:58:51.439 benji: have any effect 500 00:58:51.680 --> 00:59:01.710 Thomas Howell: on on the other? Do we need to reconfirm on change, password and change email? Do we confirm the email address and confirm the new password. 501 00:59:01.760 --> 00:59:03.419 Thomas Howell: which is one of the old patterns. 502 00:59:09.770 --> 00:59:15.499 benji: I'm I'm pretty sure that the password will have to be confirmed. I'm not sure about the email 503 00:59:16.890 --> 00:59:20.229 Thomas Howell: could. Could you try that, Ralph? Cause I think Ralph's showing it. 504 00:59:21.520 --> 00:59:28.679 benji: And and I guess the reason you need to confirm the password is that it's it's hidden. The email address is not hidden. So there's less 505 00:59:29.150 --> 00:59:32.120 benji: reason for asking for a confirmation there. 506 00:59:36.510 --> 00:59:37.200 benji: Yeah. 507 00:59:39.200 --> 00:59:47.340 benji: So so that that much has not changed. It's just moved to a new form. II missed the change. Password. Did you do that, Ralph? 508 00:59:47.520 --> 00:59:49.050 Thomas Howell: Yeah. 509 00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:55.429 Ralf Koller: No. I just entered the current password. Changed the email address. And then it's safe. 510 00:59:55.630 --> 00:59:57.789 Ralf Koller: And the email changed successfully. 511 00:59:57.840 --> 01:00:00.520 Thomas Howell: Could you just do it for password? That's the primary. 512 01:00:01.330 --> 01:00:06.449 Ralf Koller: Yeah, let's the currently for the current part in that way. 513 01:00:06.990 --> 01:00:11.390 Ralf Koller: make it admin that's it. Thank you. 514 01:00:12.180 --> 01:00:13.770 Ralf Koller: And with the other 515 01:00:13.900 --> 01:00:17.769 Ralf Koller: hatch apply oops with that oops. Where is it? 516 01:00:19.680 --> 01:00:24.979 Ralf Koller: With that issue applied. the confirm password would 517 01:00:26.100 --> 01:00:35.620 Ralf Koller: be as striked. And it's not available anymore. And just a single password field where you're able to hide and show and just enter the new password. 518 01:00:36.060 --> 01:00:43.620 benji: Okay, so we we have just a few minutes left. So, Erin, what changes do you want to make to the wording. 519 01:00:43.830 --> 01:00:47.549 Aaron McHale: Thanks. Yeah. So I would suggest 520 01:00:47.630 --> 01:00:57.879 Aaron McHale: a couple of things. One that we don't repeat the word edit profile like edit with the profile tab, and I'm also not sure if, like profile is 521 01:00:58.090 --> 01:01:06.209 Aaron McHale: the correct word here, it's more like and again, maybe we want to revisit this next week, when I'm probably want to know here. But 522 01:01:06.210 --> 01:01:32.290 Aaron McHale: maybe we need a better word than profile, because that could be confusing. If, for instance, you saw the profile module, and you end up with a separate profile tab. So maybe something like like account details is quite a common one. Something about account, perhaps, and again thinking about the title on that page, there is just the username. Maybe that's something that needs to be addressed. But that, could that could be a follow up issue again, with us similar patterns. What we were doing with field ui stuff 523 01:01:32.390 --> 01:01:34.510 Aaron McHale: and also say, 524 01:01:34.690 --> 01:01:58.680 Aaron McHale: change, password, change email again, do we need the word change? I'm not sure, does the email needs to be email address because email, it's own change email that could be like, Am I changing the email address, am I changing the you know my, my email preferences like, what is, do we want that tab to be more open? So control modules can add more things, probably not because it is specific to change the email address. So 525 01:01:58.680 --> 01:02:07.989 Aaron McHale: maybe something like maybe email address. And again, do we need the word change. And also I would swap the order. So I'd have email them password, because I think like 526 01:02:07.990 --> 01:02:30.530 Aaron McHale: conceptually a lot of times when you think about logging into a site? For instance, you put your email, then your password. So those. Those are just kind of my suggestions. But where we're up against the hours, so I'm happy to to soft us to continue the the conversation. Next week, and who knows? Maybe I will be here. Maybe I'll I'll be so so fear of missing out that I joined from my holiday in the Canary Islands. 527 01:02:30.580 --> 01:02:31.490 Aaron McHale: We'll see. 528 01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:40.090 benji: Yeah, II certainly agree that with main tab being edit. The sub tabs don't need to say edit nor change. 529 01:02:40.850 --> 01:03:02.719 Aaron McHale: Yeah. And and also we sh whatever they say, it should be a consistent pattern. So you know, if it's if one is edit profile, the other should say edit password, you know, like. But then, as you said, we don't need those extra words there. I wanna say, if you go to change password, the title is now password. Okay? So maybe we need to address that as part of the issue. Then, because I wouldn't wanna 530 01:03:02.890 --> 01:03:05.319 Aaron McHale: make it more confusing. So. 531 01:03:05.520 --> 01:03:10.190 Ralf Koller: But if you take a look at the URL at the top, it's added pass 532 01:03:10.660 --> 01:03:11.989 Ralf Koller: instead of change. 533 01:03:14.150 --> 01:03:21.819 Aaron McHale: Oh, yeah, maybe like, the URL should be like edits. Oh, I see. Like user one edit dash pass. 534 01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:29.779 Aaron McHale: okay? Because normally, we normally, we put like, we, we go another level with the sub-tabs. So like it would be edit, slash 535 01:03:29.910 --> 01:03:35.109 Aaron McHale: email, edit slash passwords. That's more of an implementation. 536 01:03:35.130 --> 01:03:39.670 Aaron McHale: And we have one more minute. Anything else you wanted to mention, Ralph. 537 01:03:40.590 --> 01:03:41.860 Ralf Koller: I'm 538 01:03:42.050 --> 01:03:50.419 Ralf Koller: it was basically the same point I wanted to make in regards of edit and edit profile there. I'm plus one what Aaron said, and also the other points he made. 539 01:03:51.830 --> 01:03:52.580 benji: Okay. 540 01:03:55.240 --> 01:03:59.170 benji: alright. who wants to leave a 541 01:03:59.310 --> 01:04:07.279 benji: a comment on the issue that that we are generally in favor of of change and just want to 542 01:04:08.330 --> 01:04:13.730 benji: have time to to reconsider the Urls 543 01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:18.820 benji: and the order and labeling of the tabs. Who wants to that comment? 544 01:04:24.210 --> 01:04:29.609 benji: Okay, I guess II can do that. Great thanks. All for coming. 545 01:04:29.780 --> 01:04:38.020 benji: Have a Happy New Year, and we may not see, but I expect I'll see the rest of you. In the New Year. 546 01:04:38.070 --> 01:04:45.840 Thomas Howell: Benji, I'll leave the the message I just needed to get the. I was sorry my mute was stuck. I didn't want you to have to do that. I'm just, may 547 01:04:46.570 --> 01:04:48.580 Thomas Howell: that I have the right issue if you have one. Sec. 548 01:04:49.910 --> 01:04:52.440 benji: Okay, well, we can. We can trade links in slack. 549 01:04:56.490 --> 01:04:57.300 Aaron McHale: Okay? 550 01:04:59.500 --> 01:05:01.260 Aaron McHale: Thanks. Everyone have a good New Year 551 01:05:01.630 --> 01:05:10.010 Ralf Koller: likewise have a good year, New Year, and a good vacation on the Canary. 552 01:05:10.030 --> 01:05:11.439 Thomas Howell: Happy holidays. Bye! 553 01:05:11.630 --> 01:05:13.010 Aaron McHale: Aye, bye-bye.