WEBVTT 38 00:05:34.090 --> 00:05:39.669 benji: Welcome. This is the drupal usability meeting for January 20, sixth, 2024. 39 00:05:40.260 --> 00:05:50.050 benji: I'm Benjy Fisher, sharing my screen and moderating and also present, are Duncan Macaulay, Ralph Kohler, Simo Helston Scott. 40 00:05:50.610 --> 00:05:53.300 and Thomas. Health. Thank you all for coming. 41 00:05:54.070 --> 00:05:57.449 benji: So let's see, I have 42 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:05.440 benji: up the issue for today's meeting, which, for the sake of the recording. is 3415072 43 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:12.109 benji: And I'd like to talk about this issue one 44 00:06:12.130 --> 00:06:19.699 benji: looked at before. Allow user to add display modes from respective field u eyes. 45 00:06:20.400 --> 00:06:26.730 benji: I'll put the I see Ralph beat me to it put the link to the meeting in the chat. 46 00:06:26.870 --> 00:06:32.749 benji: and if it's sake of the recording, the issue, number is 2, 7, 2, 1, 7, 2, 7 47 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:38.289 benji: so let me 48 00:06:40.610 --> 00:06:42.300 benji: behind the scenes. 49 00:06:43.950 --> 00:06:46.310 benji: Switch branches 50 00:06:47.820 --> 00:06:49.190 benji: to 51 00:06:49.460 --> 00:07:01.619 benji: the current. 11 point x branch. Also there's oh, I haven't. 52 00:07:02.370 --> 00:07:07.519 benji: I haven't shared this yet. Let me get a link to share. Just a moment. 53 00:07:15.770 --> 00:07:19.610 benji: Okay, I'm pasting into the Zoom chat a 54 00:07:21.170 --> 00:07:24.070 benji: link to my local copy of the site. 55 00:07:26.340 --> 00:07:36.059 benji: We can login as admin admin. I think that will work maybe. Just to be sure I should 56 00:07:38.650 --> 00:07:40.510 benji: log in that way myself. 57 00:07:46.740 --> 00:07:47.800 skaught: yes, it does. 58 00:07:48.880 --> 00:07:49.660 benji: Okay. 59 00:07:51.980 --> 00:07:53.009 But we wanted 60 00:07:53.060 --> 00:07:57.690 benji: what this issue is about is adding view modes. 61 00:07:58.260 --> 00:07:59.620 benji: So 62 00:07:59.970 --> 00:08:03.680 benji: just as a reminder of the current state 63 00:08:03.840 --> 00:08:13.279 benji: of affairs. there are 2 ways to do it. From the structure. Menu, you can choose, display modes and then view modes. 64 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:20.660 benji: And this lists. This is the mommy demo profile. So they're equip 65 00:08:20.690 --> 00:08:26.970 benji: quite a few modes already defined, card card, common or content. 66 00:08:27.250 --> 00:08:39.989 benji: There are a few view modes, I guess, just one for content block and several for media and there are buttons to add view, mode. 67 00:08:40.549 --> 00:08:41.760 benji: and then 68 00:08:42.630 --> 00:08:45.309 benji: under each entity type. 69 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:55.830 benji: for example, content. There's a button to add a content type. This part isn't going to change but I do wanna notice the form it has name description. 70 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:58.609 benji: and then you can enable the content type 71 00:08:59.210 --> 00:09:05.690 benji: for various bundles content types. I'm sorry you could have enabled the view mode 72 00:09:05.780 --> 00:09:07.700 benji: for various content types. 73 00:09:09.400 --> 00:09:18.829 benji: so that's one way to get here. The other way to get here is from a particular content type. 74 00:09:20.310 --> 00:09:26.729 benji: Say, article instead of manage fields. You couldn't manage display. 75 00:09:29.980 --> 00:09:35.059 benji: and you have sub tabs for each of the enabled view modes. 76 00:09:36.420 --> 00:09:40.110 benji: you can open this 77 00:09:40.150 --> 00:09:44.260 benji: details element near the bottom of the page. Custom display settings. 78 00:09:45.380 --> 00:09:57.169 benji: and there are couple of display modes that are not currently enabled. I could enable those I could disable some of the existing ones. And finally, there's this link at the bottom 79 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:09.170 benji: manage few modes which takes me to the page where I was before. Any questions about that content that context before II go further. 80 00:10:12.540 --> 00:10:14.309 skaught: No, I'm familiar with this, of course. 81 00:10:14.660 --> 00:10:15.320 benji: Bye. 82 00:10:16.810 --> 00:10:20.950 benji: So let me now switch to 83 00:10:22.100 --> 00:10:24.869 benji: the issue, for today's meeting. 84 00:10:28.230 --> 00:10:30.020 benji: Switch my git branch 85 00:10:33.760 --> 00:10:40.360 benji: and then I'll just reload this page, the manage display page for the article Content type. 86 00:10:42.710 --> 00:10:43.989 benji: And now at 87 00:10:44.490 --> 00:10:50.810 benji: changes that at the bottom, instead of a link to the other page, there's a link labeled. 88 00:10:51.180 --> 00:10:52.629 benji: add new view mode. 89 00:10:54.380 --> 00:10:58.690 benji: and if I click that it opens up a modal. 90 00:10:59.890 --> 00:11:09.649 benji: And here I can add a use test view mode. put in the description. No one ever bothers with that. 91 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:19.850 benji: By default the new view mode will be enabled for article, and I can also choose to enable it for other content types. At the same time, if I want 92 00:11:21.090 --> 00:11:24.690 benji: let me not do that. 93 00:11:24.710 --> 00:11:26.260 benji: let me save this. 94 00:11:28.460 --> 00:11:31.850 benji: and oh! It took a second. 95 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:44.270 benji: but it saves the new view mode. It gives me a link to configure it, to choose which fields will go in it. which is the same thing 96 00:11:44.900 --> 00:11:49.079 benji: that would I could get to by this sub-tab. 97 00:11:50.430 --> 00:11:58.299 benji: and that is the new functionality from this from this issue 98 00:11:59.870 --> 00:12:03.309 benji: again, before I go on any further any any questions about 99 00:12:03.540 --> 00:12:05.399 what it's trying to do. 100 00:12:12.390 --> 00:12:14.919 Team. Oh, I see you've unmuted. Do you have something to say? 101 00:12:22.450 --> 00:12:25.619 benji: I don't hear you. Are you having audio problems seem up. 102 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:31.680 Simo Hellsten: Let's see, can you hear me now? Yes. 103 00:12:32.530 --> 00:12:43.889 Simo Hellsten: yeah. Okay. So I took my headphones off so there must be some background noise. So when you add from a content top, you add that new view mode. 104 00:12:44.050 --> 00:12:48.169 Simo Hellsten: does it give the check box by default? 105 00:12:48.340 --> 00:12:52.319 Simo Hellsten: That is the one where you opened it from. 106 00:12:53.660 --> 00:13:01.139 Simo Hellsten: so when you admire one, it here, when you show that it gives article by default. 107 00:13:01.290 --> 00:13:05.640 Simo Hellsten: what does it give if you at view mode from some other. 108 00:13:06.050 --> 00:13:08.660 Simo Hellsten: Let's say recipe. 109 00:13:09.350 --> 00:13:16.679 Simo Hellsten: advent page, then it will be. Will it provide default, check box for a recipe? 110 00:13:18.300 --> 00:13:24.289 benji: Yes, I think this is what you're asking if I go to manage the display for the recipe content type. 111 00:13:25.700 --> 00:13:35.500 benji: Oh, notice, this label has changed. Set of custom display settings. It's just display settings. Add new view mode. And now recipe is the one selected. 112 00:13:37.090 --> 00:13:38.309 benji: That's what you're asking. 113 00:13:42.430 --> 00:13:45.930 benji: And Seema gives a thumbs up. Okay? So that 114 00:13:46.380 --> 00:13:54.159 benji: that's clarified. Okay, any suggestions for improvement? Is there anything you don't like about this? 115 00:13:56.430 --> 00:14:02.190 skaught: No, I think I've this looks really great because I know that this as a developer. I know this is a huge shortcut. 116 00:14:02.900 --> 00:14:05.830 skaught: for that flow is this limited to nodes? 117 00:14:07.470 --> 00:14:13.759 skaught: Pick few modes for media for blocks, for other things, or is the consideration only for nodes right now? 118 00:14:14.430 --> 00:14:17.539 benji: Good question. I haven't tested that. I suspect 119 00:14:17.780 --> 00:14:23.859 benji: that it will work for other entity types as well, so you can look at a block type. 120 00:14:24.540 --> 00:14:32.370 benji: Manage the display of the basic block. Display settings. 121 00:14:32.550 --> 00:14:37.690 skaught: Yep, go. It's good. I had new view mode. Okay, this looks good. Then this looks very good. Then. 122 00:14:38.340 --> 00:14:44.530 skaught: because that would have been the other thing to say, like not just limited to make, you know. Make sure it's not just limited to notes. 123 00:14:48.910 --> 00:14:50.550 benji: Okay, 124 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:58.149 benji: So I have a couple of things I've 125 00:14:58.180 --> 00:15:03.800 benji: I was testing this while while reviewing the issue 126 00:15:04.090 --> 00:15:07.520 benji: and 127 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:14.150 benji: a couple of things. I noticed that sort of didn't hit me the first time I looked at it. 128 00:15:14.620 --> 00:15:19.729 benji: So first of all. 129 00:15:19.990 --> 00:15:21.809 benji: going back to Article 130 00:15:22.350 --> 00:15:26.980 benji: I created this new 131 00:15:28.610 --> 00:15:29.500 benji: test. 132 00:15:31.040 --> 00:15:36.590 benji: Did I actually disable that, or did I just uncheck it and then not submit the form? 133 00:15:38.090 --> 00:15:44.570 benji: Umhm. 134 00:15:44.800 --> 00:15:49.489 benji: Hang on a second. I wanna make sure this is probably just my 135 00:15:49.660 --> 00:15:58.680 benji: misremembering. Okay. so it's it's enabled. Now for article. So if you remember when when I created this new view mode. 136 00:15:58.890 --> 00:15:59.970 benji: I 137 00:16:00.620 --> 00:16:03.859 benji: thought about enabling it for other 138 00:16:04.370 --> 00:16:07.239 benji: content types, but then decided not to 139 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:20.149 benji: but now suppose II come to this page. and e either that one that I added, or or maybe the rss view mode. 140 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:29.850 benji: And I say, Oh, I'm I'm going to enable Rss. Feeds for for all of my content types. Well, I can do it for article and save that. 141 00:16:31.470 --> 00:16:35.139 benji: But what's been removed from this page is the link 142 00:16:35.610 --> 00:16:40.750 benji: to get back to the main view modes. Page 143 00:16:41.550 --> 00:16:52.449 benji: we. We have this new thing that brings up the modal, but we no longer have the link that goes to, and I'll take food. since I already have it open in the tab. I'll just go there. 144 00:16:52.630 --> 00:17:01.199 benji: We no longer have the link that goes to this page. So I no longer have an easy way to get from here 145 00:17:01.390 --> 00:17:02.750 benji: to here. 146 00:17:02.860 --> 00:17:06.599 benji: where I could edit the Rss. View mode 147 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:08.859 benji: and enable it for everything. 148 00:17:11.060 --> 00:17:12.230 benji: So 149 00:17:13.210 --> 00:17:17.060 benji: that's one bit of functionality that's been removed. 150 00:17:18.089 --> 00:17:24.979 benji: And the other thing. 151 00:17:25.700 --> 00:17:31.660 benji: It's it's a shame that that Erin isn't here? I'll go ahead, Thomas. 152 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:36.389 Thomas Howell: But was that functionality deliberately removed? Or is it accidental? 153 00:17:37.520 --> 00:17:38.919 Thomas Howell: Is it that side effect? 154 00:17:39.370 --> 00:17:49.040 benji: I think it was pretty deliberate that they decided, instead of having the manage display modes link that goes to this page 155 00:17:50.840 --> 00:17:55.000 benji: instead of that link, they have the new link that that opens a mobile. 156 00:17:57.010 --> 00:17:58.920 Thomas Howell: Okay? So that makes sense. 157 00:18:03.290 --> 00:18:06.469 benji: So then 158 00:18:07.670 --> 00:18:11.159 benji: what do you think of the styling of this as a standard link 159 00:18:11.340 --> 00:18:15.319 benji: that then opens a modal. Is that what we typically do 160 00:18:15.490 --> 00:18:19.319 benji: for links that open mobile windows? Or do we usually style them as buttons? 161 00:18:20.840 --> 00:18:24.280 skaught: That's a good general question, because it's an action link. 162 00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:31.850 skaught: right? It's not going to change the page to a new you're not going to a new page. It's it's an action 163 00:18:32.130 --> 00:18:33.090 benji: exactly. 164 00:18:33.990 --> 00:18:42.880 benji: I guess in views everything looks like an ordinary link, right? 165 00:18:43.840 --> 00:18:47.019 benji: But what about other places where we use modals? 166 00:18:47.700 --> 00:18:49.860 skaught: Choose modals specifically 167 00:18:51.460 --> 00:18:52.140 oops. 168 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:56.030 benji: Let's see, I guess 169 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:03.710 benji: there's been a lot of recent work on creating a new field. This now opens in a modal. 170 00:19:03.740 --> 00:19:11.400 skaught: Yeah. And it and it's see, there's an action link. That's exactly what I sort of was thinking is that those are standard action links that are placed on the top. 171 00:19:12.770 --> 00:19:14.219 benji: Right? So 172 00:19:15.320 --> 00:19:16.810 benji: this again 173 00:19:17.850 --> 00:19:21.739 skaught: oh, I guess, but as an action link that triggered an actual page load. 174 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:32.260 benji: But this this one III guess II get confused because there are a lot of issues that I've been testing. And 175 00:19:32.890 --> 00:19:36.320 benji: I thought that this now opened in 176 00:19:36.420 --> 00:19:39.830 benji: a modal. But but maybe that issue is still 177 00:19:40.190 --> 00:19:49.600 benji: in progress. But this one definitely opens a modal. that's that got into 10.2 178 00:19:50.790 --> 00:19:53.490 benji: so 179 00:19:54.470 --> 00:19:57.799 benji: should we use the same styling for this link? 180 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:01.069 benji: Should this be styled like an action link. 181 00:20:03.950 --> 00:20:08.460 skaught: Just a second when I click, click around for a second. See what other things look like, too? 182 00:20:11.620 --> 00:20:14.429 skaught: No. So on the go to 183 00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:21.759 skaught: even on the 4 modes like here. I'll just go to this because it's simple or sorry. I just went to the 4 Modes 184 00:20:21.850 --> 00:20:30.550 skaught: administration structure display modes 4 modes, and in it each section is a gray. See? Yeah, it's it's like the gray-out action link. 185 00:20:31.750 --> 00:20:36.200 skaught: So that's kind of more of the consistency. But is that because it's on the footer? 186 00:20:38.330 --> 00:20:41.830 benji: This was this was added fairly recently, these 187 00:20:41.900 --> 00:20:48.190 benji: individual links. We're we're added fairly recently. 188 00:20:48.250 --> 00:20:54.530 benji: and and that's sort of related to this issue. I think these should be style the same as 189 00:20:54.600 --> 00:21:04.729 skaught: here's the great question, is there a dial guide that we should actually be referencing rather than sort of, because we're piecing together what we think the Style Guide is, do we have a style guide to look at? 190 00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:08.120 skaught: I know? That's a hard question at the best of times. 191 00:21:10.250 --> 00:21:13.969 benji: Is there a style guide for 192 00:21:14.320 --> 00:21:29.289 skaught: How do you use? Yeah. So does this have a more. Is there a way we could see what the given buttons are, cause this looks appropriate in that. It's not just a link. 193 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:35.849 skaught: It's something different. But again, like the top action links are sort of more defined in that space. 194 00:21:36.370 --> 00:21:45.250 skaught: But I think, like, like, you know, this this button. There's just something to grey. This makes it look like it does something like it's a trigger. So that's sort of a good thing. We don't actually have a 195 00:21:45.790 --> 00:21:48.010 skaught: a fixed style gun on how to use buttons. 196 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:52.889 benji: Thank you. Ralph's Ralph gives us a link in 197 00:21:54.370 --> 00:21:55.890 benji: zoom chat. 198 00:22:01.830 --> 00:22:07.540 Ralf Koller: Do I need to sign in, or is it going to? No, you can click in the upper left. 199 00:22:09.080 --> 00:22:10.330 Ralf Koller: but I can. 200 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.550 Ralf Koller: and there you have 3 categories. 201 00:22:12.950 --> 00:22:13.970 Ralf Koller: pages. 202 00:22:17.100 --> 00:22:23.199 benji: sign tokens, color, pale with typography, spacing, iconography layers. 203 00:22:29.040 --> 00:22:37.450 benji: and normally we read Urls for the sake of the recording. But this is a little too challenging. 204 00:22:37.520 --> 00:22:51.640 benji: If I remember, I'll I'll add a link to the the issue for today's meeting. buttons. 205 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:53.280 benji: let's see 206 00:22:55.590 --> 00:22:56.380 benji: and 207 00:23:16.860 --> 00:23:17.730 benji: button. 208 00:23:19.670 --> 00:23:24.679 benji: So we have primary buttons. I guess I have to zoom in a little further, for 209 00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:30.589 benji: this tube be usable. 210 00:23:33.330 --> 00:23:43.059 benji: ghost button is best used for secondary or tertiary content, since it will not or should not compete with your primary Cta 211 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:49.550 benji: ideally want the user to see your main cta, and then, if not relevant, skip over to the secondary button. 212 00:23:50.740 --> 00:23:53.010 benji: Primary button primary button 213 00:23:53.310 --> 00:23:58.070 benji: in different sizes. 214 00:24:00.320 --> 00:24:08.919 Duncan Macaulay: It's just searching around for, you know, Modal, but it doesn't seem that there's any. It's not. It's not like we use a specific button for modals, right? Like we can. 215 00:24:09.110 --> 00:24:13.059 Duncan Macaulay: We use different different styles. There's nothing specific just for modal. 216 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:18.140 benji: I don't see anything specific for models. 217 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:20.250 benji: Cmo, go ahead 218 00:24:26.340 --> 00:24:40.260 Simo Hellsten: in that. The button. The gray button is in the same container with the least list of items that have said Drop buttons. So that's kind of style the same 219 00:24:41.280 --> 00:24:44.710 Simo Hellsten: or no, I'm looking at it. Is it slightly larger? 220 00:24:45.070 --> 00:24:46.529 benji: We're going back to class? 221 00:24:47.060 --> 00:24:54.339 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So it's in a way, its importance is less than the blue one, and much more than that. 222 00:24:54.610 --> 00:25:03.199 Simo Hellsten: drop button. So it kind of makes sense to have that kind of it has a hierarchy of relations in their style 223 00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:04.600 works 224 00:25:06.800 --> 00:25:07.620 benji: site. 225 00:25:08.940 --> 00:25:14.289 benji: I guess it's black on gray, just like the edit button. So these are styled similarly. 226 00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:16.840 benji: okay, so maybe 227 00:25:19.770 --> 00:25:26.399 benji: so maybe this is the right choice. 228 00:25:27.970 --> 00:25:38.889 benji: getting back to the current issue. There's no longer a link to this page. That's 229 00:25:39.820 --> 00:25:42.000 benji: first thing that I 230 00:25:43.290 --> 00:25:44.909 benji: one wonder about. 231 00:25:45.840 --> 00:25:53.510 skaught: I don't personally think that that's a problem, because we otherwise know where to go to find that 232 00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:58.859 skaught: right? We doubling down the buttons. And we're just right. Just leave the old button in 233 00:25:59.310 --> 00:26:07.840 skaught: is as confusing because you're saying to go and go through the the awkward process to create a V mode, then use it. and that doesn't do anything to help the goal. 234 00:26:11.740 --> 00:26:13.389 skaught: which is just a moment. 235 00:26:13.540 --> 00:26:22.250 benji: So again, I'm I'm thinking of used case where II come to this page and say. Okay, I'm going to enable Rss. 236 00:26:22.450 --> 00:26:34.940 benji: and then I know I also want to enable it for the other content types. I might not know that there's this page available in the Admin menu. 237 00:26:35.050 --> 00:26:42.550 skaught: If you're saving your content type, then you're taking on a different responsibility of saving every other content type from this screen, then. 238 00:26:48.230 --> 00:26:57.579 skaught: and if a screen, if another view mode automatically picks up fields, then somebody may not know that they need to go and arrange fields, they'll end up with a display that they didn't intend. 239 00:27:02.930 --> 00:27:04.200 benji: So 240 00:27:06.930 --> 00:27:16.249 benji: what the what the existing link does is it goes to a different page. So it's not managing other content types from the same page. It's going to a different page that 241 00:27:16.420 --> 00:27:22.989 skaught: manages creates the view. Mode doesn't associate. It doesn't attach to any other entity. Right? 242 00:27:23.040 --> 00:27:29.610 skaught: Whether you know whatever category those emo is, it just builds the view mode and makes it available for the entity type. 243 00:27:29.860 --> 00:27:32.220 skaught: right? So that's consistent 244 00:27:32.580 --> 00:27:47.870 skaught: and doing, you know, keeping people on the goal of arranging one content type right? Like it's good that you can add it into others here, I think, but at the same time you're not good. Then, going into all these other content types and saying, Well, figuring out, you know, understanding the fields that those co, those content types use as well. 245 00:27:48.170 --> 00:27:48.830 skaught: Right? 246 00:27:49.200 --> 00:28:00.839 benji: Yeah, I guess what we what we're talking about basically is a many to many relationship. There are many view modes and many content types, and when I'm looking at a Pre a particular 247 00:28:01.060 --> 00:28:06.930 benji: view mode, either an existing one from this added button or a new one from this button. 248 00:28:07.370 --> 00:28:15.140 benji: When I'm looking at a particular view mode, I can choose the content type, and that makes sense. When I'm looking at a particular content type. 249 00:28:15.770 --> 00:28:18.409 benji: I have all the different view modes available. 250 00:28:18.490 --> 00:28:20.150 skaught: and that makes sense, too. 251 00:28:20.540 --> 00:28:26.060 benji: So all I'm suggesting is is that we restore the 252 00:28:26.120 --> 00:28:29.179 benji: ordinary link. not the action link 253 00:28:29.330 --> 00:28:31.849 benji: that goes from 254 00:28:32.250 --> 00:28:34.610 benji: this page or this. 255 00:28:36.220 --> 00:28:37.820 benji: this details element 256 00:28:38.450 --> 00:28:45.319 benji: to this other page, where I will have that option to look at a single view, mode 257 00:28:45.590 --> 00:28:48.610 benji: and multiple content types. 258 00:28:59.670 --> 00:29:06.140 skaught: then the title, this first link here, where we have add new view mode should. or what would the titles be? 259 00:29:07.620 --> 00:29:12.200 skaught: Add? New view mode which happens in line, and another link that's view all 260 00:29:12.530 --> 00:29:13.540 skaught: few modes. 261 00:29:15.250 --> 00:29:20.909 skaught: we're review right right like vendor, reviewing all 262 00:29:21.460 --> 00:29:23.499 benji: you know. Let me 263 00:29:26.450 --> 00:29:37.429 benji: sort of use by browser tools to try to fake it and if I just add bottom. 264 00:29:46.010 --> 00:29:48.529 benji: it go anywhere but 265 00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:54.370 benji: so this. I think. 266 00:29:54.970 --> 00:30:04.659 benji: I think, is is what we lost. and I would like to have them styled differently. So this is 267 00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:10.719 benji: perhaps an action link, or perhaps a button. and this is an ordinary link. 268 00:30:12.380 --> 00:30:15.140 benji: And Ralph's 269 00:30:15.560 --> 00:30:21.099 benji: gave a thumbs up in chat. I'm afraid I I'm not sure what you're giving a thumbs up, too. 270 00:30:21.310 --> 00:30:25.189 benji: Is. That might be my suggestion of responding. 271 00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:32.090 benji: What's that? I haven't given a thumbs up in chat? Oh, someone gave a thumbs up in chat. Unfortunately, the 272 00:30:32.420 --> 00:30:38.720 benji: slack. I'm sorry the zoom app for for Linux doesn't show me who gave 273 00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:44.460 Duncan Macaulay: Duncan did. Thank you. I just threw a thumbs up on the link that Ralph shared. 274 00:30:45.270 --> 00:30:51.809 benji: Okay, thanks. Oh, and I see that offershall has also joined the meeting. Thank you. 275 00:30:52.840 --> 00:30:54.489 Ofer Shaal: You know. 276 00:30:58.550 --> 00:31:01.350 benji: So so II guess. 277 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:06.729 benji: Yeah, th, this is what I would like to restore with 278 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:10.909 benji: restore this link that goes to 279 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:16.000 benji: the view modes page. Not the form notes page the modes page. 280 00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:18.610 benji: I'd like to restore that link. 281 00:31:19.540 --> 00:31:22.779 benji: and I'd like to have different styling. 282 00:31:23.510 --> 00:31:26.609 benji: not not entirely sure what styling to have for this. 283 00:31:27.070 --> 00:31:29.510 benji: Ralph, go ahead 284 00:31:31.310 --> 00:31:38.779 Ralf Koller: definitely a plus one for restoring managed view modes because it's a pattern 285 00:31:39.010 --> 00:31:46.590 Ralf Koller: we apply in different places over the recent issues we've had. 286 00:31:46.870 --> 00:31:55.869 Ralf Koller: So leaving the user, the option you can't know every action the user wants to take, and 287 00:31:56.090 --> 00:31:57.360 Ralf Koller: those 2 288 00:31:58.340 --> 00:32:16.829 Ralf Koller: would be more convenient, and though the user doesn't have to go into the menu and find the managed view modes or the display modes, then 4 modes or view modes, section or menu item, and therefore plus one in regards to the styling, I'm not sure if I would 289 00:32:18.010 --> 00:32:23.390 Ralf Koller: make them differently, but I also don't know yet which styling would be appropriate. One 290 00:32:23.820 --> 00:32:39.910 Ralf Koller: and one other detail. The note I've just noticed before. If you are on, for example, the display modes and then view modes page and you click the edit button. The modal opens and you 291 00:32:40.250 --> 00:32:54.700 Ralf Koller: click the click. But the quit close talking about it. So just choose anyone and click anyone doesn't matter which. And if you close click the close button, for example. 292 00:32:57.040 --> 00:33:06.289 Ralf Koller: Oh, then it's a safari bug. because for me, the focus isn't restored to the edit button again. Oh. 293 00:33:07.580 --> 00:33:08.430 benji: okay. 294 00:33:09.940 --> 00:33:11.929 benji: Duncan, go ahead. 295 00:33:12.730 --> 00:33:19.119 Duncan Macaulay: Yeah. I'm just thinking whether or not it it helps to when you then land. 296 00:33:19.250 --> 00:33:27.239 Duncan Macaulay: because when you you land on the the manage, all, all view modes, you're you're looking at it for all of the content types versus you just came from 297 00:33:27.380 --> 00:33:31.079 Duncan Macaulay: a specific content type. And I'm assuming this list could get 298 00:33:31.430 --> 00:33:40.110 Duncan Macaulay: fairly long depending on how many lit content types you have. So you know, if I was. If you scroll down, I mean, you know I and you were working on the the media 299 00:33:41.870 --> 00:33:51.660 Duncan Macaulay: media entity, and then, you know, use that link to land to this page. You would just be landing right at the top. and then you'd have to go and find your 300 00:33:51.710 --> 00:33:55.069 Duncan Macaulay: specific one that you came from. Is there any 301 00:33:55.410 --> 00:33:57.009 Duncan Macaulay: any sense and kind of? 302 00:33:57.900 --> 00:34:00.660 Duncan Macaulay: I don't being able to go straight to the media? 303 00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:03.720 Duncan Macaulay: I don't even know if there's like anchor tanks there. 304 00:34:04.860 --> 00:34:07.259 benji: Probably there is. 305 00:34:07.490 --> 00:34:13.120 benji: So you're suggesting that we restore the link and also improve its target. 306 00:34:13.380 --> 00:34:14.560 benji: Oh. 307 00:34:14.570 --> 00:34:19.210 skaught: something on the parent wrapper, but not on the actual headers. 308 00:34:22.929 --> 00:34:25.360 benji: Oh, not that table. 309 00:34:29.429 --> 00:34:34.010 Duncan Macaulay: and and whether or not that's even a good idea! I'm just throwing it out there. 310 00:34:35.830 --> 00:34:37.530 skaught: It is a good idea. 311 00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:47.779 skaught: but it is the same problem with this display. This page does get too big when you actually have a full site. Right? That's a different reality. 312 00:34:49.900 --> 00:34:56.720 benji: Right? And so, O Umami is, is a better illustration of that than standard profile. But 313 00:34:59.110 --> 00:35:03.790 benji: but a real site would be even more of a challenge. So 314 00:35:04.340 --> 00:35:16.840 skaught: yeah, the ux like to say if there was jump on the thought, if there was a bunch of tabs at the top of this page, and you switched to Tab to see which view mode group entity you wanted to edit. That would make this page more useful, perhaps. But 315 00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:19.860 skaught: you know there's different ux. that's all 316 00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:25.680 Duncan Macaulay: right. And so that could be a separate issue. That's 317 00:35:26.560 --> 00:35:32.660 benji: yeah. E, either some navigation on this page, or we could put 318 00:35:32.700 --> 00:35:37.710 benji: each of these tables into a collapsed details element? 319 00:35:38.470 --> 00:35:42.600 benji: a lot of options for how to do it definitely. 320 00:35:42.940 --> 00:35:44.809 benji: which would be a separate issue. 321 00:35:45.350 --> 00:35:50.459 skaught: So back to our issue in that respect. I think the problem with 322 00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:53.090 skaught: having the buttons is that there isn't. 323 00:35:53.610 --> 00:36:06.200 skaught: Buttons don't really help identify that it's going to open a modal same way that we sort of use, you know a lot of projects. You'll use them. An icon say, it's gonna open in a new tab. There's nothing that indicates that a button's supposed to trigger a modal 324 00:36:08.010 --> 00:36:17.660 skaught: rather than going to another like. There's just inconsistency that, you know, like you're clicking on things, and you don't know if it's going to be a link on a page load, or you don't know if it's going to be a modal. There's a lot of 325 00:36:18.010 --> 00:36:24.010 skaught: like you're just you click on the thing and you get to it. And it does it. You do your work right and move on. 326 00:36:24.610 --> 00:36:33.110 skaught: But that's like here, right at the top there. Sorry, right on the manage display. One's one's new page. One's a modal. There's no difference. They're not true, they're not acting like that's supposed to be 327 00:36:33.210 --> 00:36:41.539 skaught: a clue for a user that it's supposed to trigger a modal right? Yes, III think that's a really good point. II agree. 328 00:36:41.610 --> 00:36:53.189 benji: and your your question to start was, do we have a style guide and and I think that we do need some way to 329 00:36:53.210 --> 00:36:54.360 benji: indicate 330 00:36:55.670 --> 00:36:57.640 benji: mobile links. 331 00:36:57.690 --> 00:37:06.270 skaught: This is a problem in layouts, too. Right? Like, I'm doing a lot of stuff around layouts. And this is the same problem as people use creating buttons. And they're open dialogues. And you don't know what's actually happening anymore. 332 00:37:07.720 --> 00:37:09.430 benji: Okay, I think 333 00:37:11.190 --> 00:37:15.410 skaught: II think that's again something that should be its own issue rather than 334 00:37:16.100 --> 00:37:19.569 benji: including this issue. And 335 00:37:24.910 --> 00:37:31.219 benji: getting back to this issue. There's another problem I have with this workflow. 336 00:37:31.600 --> 00:37:39.510 benji: So one is Well. 337 00:37:39.870 --> 00:37:44.250 benji: I missed that. One of our our regular participants, Aaron Mikhail, isn't here. 338 00:37:44.520 --> 00:37:50.329 benji: but those those of you who've who are also regulars. What would Aaron say about this form? 339 00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:06.910 benji: So I think Aaron would say that A form should not try to do too much. 340 00:38:07.210 --> 00:38:18.489 benji: and that we have all of these elements where you have to select something and then click the submit button. and then you have the add new view mode button 341 00:38:19.200 --> 00:38:20.010 benji: which 342 00:38:21.290 --> 00:38:27.430 benji: takes us to why is it going to a separate page? I thought it was going to open in a modal. 343 00:38:30.580 --> 00:38:31.629 benji: What have I? 344 00:38:33.680 --> 00:38:48.170 benji: What have I done to break that. Maybe it's because I use browser tools to edit that page. And I somehow broke the functionality. There we go. another test 345 00:38:48.870 --> 00:38:58.980 benji: view mode. and maybe I enable it for all 3 content types, and then I save the modal. and I never go back to the form 346 00:39:01.010 --> 00:39:02.510 benji: and submit it. 347 00:39:08.500 --> 00:39:10.000 benji: you know, just to 348 00:39:12.390 --> 00:39:16.560 benji: if more of a a user story to that 349 00:39:16.650 --> 00:39:23.970 benji: objection, let's say I come here. I have this long list of you votes and say, no. Actually, I don't need any of those. 350 00:39:23.990 --> 00:39:30.810 benji: I do wanna enable these 2. And then oh, there's one that's missing. I need 351 00:39:34.140 --> 00:39:35.429 benji: the missing link. 352 00:39:35.890 --> 00:39:42.050 benji: and I save this. 353 00:39:43.510 --> 00:39:50.380 benji: And then what has happened is that all the other changes I made to the form have been lost, because when I submit 354 00:39:51.030 --> 00:39:55.160 benji: that modal form. It does a full page reload. 355 00:39:57.270 --> 00:40:00.520 Simo Hellsten: and especially if you reorder the fields 356 00:40:00.790 --> 00:40:02.659 Simo Hellsten: then especially, it's a problem. 357 00:40:04.270 --> 00:40:07.980 benji: Oh, right? I could do all sorts of other things. 358 00:40:08.630 --> 00:40:16.310 skaught: Reorder fields. Greg Table puts the the asterisk beside it to let you know that you've added things. There's not a lot of indication that's normal. 359 00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:27.460 benji: But the point is that other things that I may have done on this form without submitting it. I then go to open this mobile window. 360 00:40:28.310 --> 00:40:37.200 benji: and it does a full page reload. And whatever changes I made up here have been lost. 361 00:40:38.260 --> 00:40:38.950 skaught: Yeah. 362 00:40:39.310 --> 00:40:42.470 benji: So I think that when 363 00:40:45.220 --> 00:40:48.280 benji: when we do open this modal 364 00:40:49.400 --> 00:41:01.300 benji: and submitted. I think, instead of doing a full page reload. I would like to see it create the view mode. and then return me 365 00:41:01.890 --> 00:41:05.100 benji: to this form. 366 00:41:06.210 --> 00:41:09.760 benji: without 367 00:41:10.130 --> 00:41:17.149 benji: making further changes. What keep keeping whatever work I have in progress on this form, whether that be 368 00:41:17.370 --> 00:41:22.000 benji: things that I have selected or deselected. 369 00:41:22.330 --> 00:41:26.990 benji: or other parts of the form where I may have been rearranging 370 00:41:27.580 --> 00:41:30.100 benji: elements here. 371 00:41:32.990 --> 00:41:36.970 benji: Do you think that's a valid objection? Do you think that would be a better workflow. 372 00:41:38.620 --> 00:41:43.640 Duncan Macaulay: and then it would also. It would also have to change up at the the top right with the 373 00:41:43.890 --> 00:41:47.660 skaught: Have to add the tab on the top of the page app on the top, as I was trying to say, yeah. 374 00:41:47.700 --> 00:41:56.120 skaught: yeah. So it has to add the inline bullet radio and add in a tab section. That's why it does a load of the page right? 375 00:41:57.980 --> 00:42:11.600 skaught: Because then you can go in and add great, what do you have? Okay? So you have the same problem in that. You could go in. A user could go in change field arrangements thing, just go up to the up to here. Change the view mode and they lose their settings. That's a normal flaw. 376 00:42:13.050 --> 00:42:16.370 skaught: like a normal, you know, wider accepted flaw that if you 377 00:42:16.390 --> 00:42:19.599 skaught: click on things and you are aware of not. 378 00:42:21.670 --> 00:42:25.070 skaught: it's a long form that is correct. 379 00:42:25.100 --> 00:42:38.540 benji: And and and when I submit the the mobile form, when I create new view mode, it does automatically get added. This is a long list. So it has switched to vertical display. It normally shows the sub taps horizontally. 380 00:42:38.580 --> 00:42:43.059 benji: But there are too many view modes now play horizontally set switches to this vertical 381 00:42:43.340 --> 00:42:50.549 benji: so that does work. On the other hand, there are technical issues with getting it to work. 382 00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:54.510 benji: and it's a little bit kludgy. 383 00:42:55.050 --> 00:42:57.469 benji: the way it's done. But 384 00:42:58.510 --> 00:43:05.790 benji: sorry. Nor, normally, I we don't talk about implementation details and usability meeting. But hit 385 00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:09.139 benji: there, there are problems there. 386 00:43:09.580 --> 00:43:12.760 benji: so I would say that 387 00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:21.749 benji: after submitting this form. if view mode gets created. This section 388 00:43:22.470 --> 00:43:24.110 benji: gets updated. 389 00:43:25.990 --> 00:43:31.589 benji: We do not even select the newly created view mode automatically. 390 00:43:32.020 --> 00:43:33.899 benji: Maybe we 391 00:43:34.120 --> 00:43:36.690 benji: shift focus to it. That'd be nice. 392 00:43:37.090 --> 00:43:38.410 benji: And then 393 00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:52.179 benji: the administrator selects it saves the page, and when the when the form is saved the new view mode gets added. 394 00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:56.669 benji: and oh, it's gone back to horizontal. 395 00:43:57.720 --> 00:43:58.720 benji: Who knows? 396 00:43:59.670 --> 00:44:09.760 benji: So that's the change I would recommend. And I'm 397 00:44:10.950 --> 00:44:16.920 benji: want to know whether or not we agree with that. So if we're 398 00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:26.690 benji: and and also getting back to the many, to many thing. I would like to simplify this form 399 00:44:27.010 --> 00:44:30.649 benji: and not and remove this section below. 400 00:44:30.950 --> 00:44:33.289 benji: where we enable it for 401 00:44:33.750 --> 00:44:42.080 benji: various other content types. Because when I'm in the context of, and a specific content type like article. 402 00:44:42.530 --> 00:44:49.350 benji: I think I should not have the option to enable it for other content types, and that would simplify the form. 403 00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:59.810 benji: And then. when I submit it, I would like it to come back to this page. select my newly created 404 00:45:01.200 --> 00:45:04.579 benji: view mode. and save the form. Go ahead, Thomas. 405 00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:17.349 Thomas Howell: A minor difference of opinion on that. When you're in the modal, I would still allow you to automatically select it like I'd have a binary choice. Do you wanna enable this 406 00:45:17.500 --> 00:45:28.709 Thomas Howell: from that? So if you click back on that modal rather than having all of those choices, I would have it like a Yes, no. Do you want this enabled for your content type 407 00:45:31.390 --> 00:45:38.399 Thomas Howell: that that would be a behavior that I would expect if I'm creating something I would get to choose it. I don't. 408 00:45:39.080 --> 00:45:43.139 Thomas Howell: II think it's a minor quibble, but that's what I would have expected. 409 00:45:44.680 --> 00:45:48.930 benji: Okay, so you agree with removing the many, the many 410 00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:58.490 benji: problem removing the other content types but you'd like to keep the option for enabling it for current content type. 411 00:45:59.120 --> 00:46:09.900 Thomas Howell: Yeah. And I, personally, I would probably have it default to on just because if I'm adding a new view mode my working assumption is, I'm adding a new view mode to 412 00:46:09.950 --> 00:46:16.289 Thomas Howell: add it to where I am. I don't. I don't know why I'd want to create it for some future date like it 413 00:46:16.340 --> 00:46:20.599 Thomas Howell: to me. That would be the the natural workflow. But I would allow people to opt out. 414 00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:31.780 benji: Okay, so you'll you'll save a click by enabling it by default. and then, when I save the form, I come back here, and it would be enabled 415 00:46:32.490 --> 00:46:36.699 Thomas Howell: correct with the option to opt out. Then you don't even have to worry about 416 00:46:36.830 --> 00:46:59.470 Thomas Howell: where focus is. You can have the focus be wherever you want on the page. And what what's bothering me is really, really minor, but like when it reloaded the page, the display settings was closed. If I was working in the display settings. I don't know why enough, necessarily when it closed. Because I'm thinking in the situation where I'm okay. I'm gonna add a couple of few modes. 417 00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:10.670 Thomas Howell: I would wanna be. And this is where my focus is. So I'd wanna retain my focus, not necessarily on the new view mode, but on the display settings and not have it collapse 418 00:47:10.790 --> 00:47:13.470 when the modal was closed. 419 00:47:14.520 --> 00:47:17.540 benji: Right? So I completely agree that the 420 00:47:17.630 --> 00:47:25.199 benji: this details element should stay open when modules submitted, and in those chat Ralph says, plus one 421 00:47:26.530 --> 00:47:28.980 benji: to the closing points Thomas makes. 422 00:47:29.150 --> 00:47:37.980 benji: Yeah. So II think that's that's pretty clear that this should stay open. Other opinions agree. Disagree 423 00:47:41.460 --> 00:47:42.280 skaught: great 424 00:47:44.530 --> 00:47:46.100 benji: ralph's go ahead. 425 00:47:47.200 --> 00:47:57.979 Ralf Koller: in general, I agree. But I'm not entirely sure if it's a good idea to remove the other content types, the option to select others. 426 00:47:58.530 --> 00:48:01.740 Ralf Koller: Why, when you create and your view mode 427 00:48:02.770 --> 00:48:04.820 Ralf Koller: that option 428 00:48:06.490 --> 00:48:08.379 Ralf Koller: might make sense still 429 00:48:08.460 --> 00:48:14.039 Ralf Koller: my perspective. and it's more convenient. Otherwise I have to 430 00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:19.949 Ralf Koller: take an extra step, and that way it would be already in the creation process. 431 00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:42.399 benji: Again, it's maybe the many question. And and my opinion is that if I'm 432 00:48:43.820 --> 00:48:57.830 benji: looking at a single view mode, I should have the option to manage a bunch of different content types. And if I'm looking at a particular content type. I should not have the 433 00:48:58.650 --> 00:49:04.679 benji: option to affect other content types. But I guess I haven't convinced you 434 00:49:05.030 --> 00:49:07.859 Ralf Koller: not entirely. I'm 435 00:49:07.870 --> 00:49:11.230 Ralf Koller: sort of drawn at the moment I see your point. 436 00:49:11.570 --> 00:49:14.159 Ralf Koller: it definitely makes sense. But on the other way 437 00:49:16.290 --> 00:49:20.990 Ralf Koller: I see over the point. If you want to achieve that 438 00:49:21.120 --> 00:49:22.770 Ralf Koller: step, it might. 439 00:49:23.100 --> 00:49:29.070 Ralf Koller: You have to create several in a row, it different ones. It might 440 00:49:30.310 --> 00:49:31.630 Ralf Koller: become annoying. 441 00:49:32.150 --> 00:49:36.489 benji: not not in a row, but repeatedly over the course of a few days or weeks. 442 00:49:37.570 --> 00:49:38.750 benji: Go ahead, Thomas. 443 00:49:39.470 --> 00:49:53.590 Thomas Howell: A big contra to to Ralph's point, though, is that? I think from a learning perspective. It creates a lot of cognitive noise like, unless you are 444 00:49:54.160 --> 00:49:56.310 Thomas Howell: really highly experienced. 445 00:49:56.530 --> 00:50:06.190 Thomas Howell: You II don't know why I would expect to see that many choices there. And especially I'm thinking of sites that have a huge number of content types. 446 00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:10.529 Thomas Howell: It makes sense from this 447 00:50:10.690 --> 00:50:29.250 Thomas Howell: path to the modal that you're really working here within this display mode, I mean. I'm still kind of stuck on the add new view mode being a link. I kind of wish it was one of those grey tertiary buttons personally that we looked at when we were looking at the 448 00:50:29.380 --> 00:50:31.240 Thomas Howell: the the ux 449 00:50:31.660 --> 00:50:33.619 style guide thing. 450 00:50:35.160 --> 00:50:42.760 Thomas Howell: because II know it can't be a big blue save button. I don't want to confuse it as a button with save 451 00:50:43.380 --> 00:50:45.570 Thomas Howell: but II 452 00:50:46.750 --> 00:51:07.089 benji: yeah, I think we're all agreed that it needs different styling. And all agreed that we're not sure what that styling should be. Perhaps it should be this styling and just to make your your point about what happens when they're more on the umami has a bunch of media types 453 00:51:07.340 --> 00:51:10.639 benji: so well, only 4. 454 00:51:10.870 --> 00:51:16.120 benji: is it block types that it has a bunch of? 455 00:51:17.640 --> 00:51:20.579 benji: But this but this is block types. 456 00:51:24.500 --> 00:51:26.690 benji: block types there for 457 00:51:27.750 --> 00:51:33.719 benji: media types there are 5 458 00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:36.889 benji: go to manage display. 459 00:51:41.890 --> 00:51:43.209 benji: So here we go. 460 00:51:44.640 --> 00:51:50.100 benji: and and and again on on a real site. There, there could be dozens 461 00:51:50.310 --> 00:51:51.579 benji: in this list. 462 00:51:52.550 --> 00:51:58.460 and and the more there are the more unmanageable this mobile becomes. We'd have to scroll on this list. 463 00:51:59.810 --> 00:52:01.659 benji: Anything else you wanted to say at Homos. 464 00:52:01.780 --> 00:52:07.459 Thomas Howell: Yeah, III just to to reiterate, like, I think that 465 00:52:07.610 --> 00:52:31.270 Thomas Howell: drupal historically for me has had a tendency putting everything everywhere. And the point that you were saying sort of wearing the air and a hat of the simplicity like, II like it being task driven because one manage a whole bunch of view modes. Then I would go to the view, modes page, and manage a whole bunch of view modes and add things in a bunch of places. But from this path 466 00:52:32.140 --> 00:52:33.410 Thomas Howell: I 467 00:52:33.450 --> 00:52:46.050 Thomas Howell: II feel like we wanna make it less confusing if if that's just more idealized. And so anything that makes it clear going, go out. This is how you create what your, what your task is. 468 00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:48.590 Thomas Howell: and that's everything. Thank you. 469 00:52:49.130 --> 00:52:49.990 benji: Okay. 470 00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:58.560 benji: so we have little less than 10 min left, so need to wrap this up. so 471 00:53:00.300 --> 00:53:06.970 benji: so can we get a a quick vote thumbs up, or or, if you want to say more, feel free? 472 00:53:07.100 --> 00:53:12.259 benji: But first point is restoring the link 473 00:53:12.650 --> 00:53:16.530 benji: to manage few modes. 474 00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:22.560 benji: who thinks that's a good idea. I do. I'm getting thumbs up from Ralph and from Semo 475 00:53:23.220 --> 00:53:25.789 benji: and from Thomas. 476 00:53:26.510 --> 00:53:28.250 benji: Okay, does anyone disagree? 477 00:53:32.010 --> 00:53:39.390 benji: Not sure whether a thumbs up in response to that question counts is just for you. Not but oh, okay, no, no one is speaking up. 478 00:53:39.680 --> 00:53:42.079 benji: So go ahead, Scott. 479 00:53:42.700 --> 00:53:50.000 skaught: So sorry. What we're talking about is, why are we putting these 2 buttons down here in 480 00:53:50.420 --> 00:54:00.620 skaught: in the details element? Why are they not action links at the top of this page so that a user knows when they get here, that if they want to add something they can add one 481 00:54:00.990 --> 00:54:13.529 skaught: there at the top of the page before they start making layout decisions like if they've come in and they start making field decisions on this display. and but at the same time, then they get to the bottom of the display and say, Hey, here are the other displays. 482 00:54:14.010 --> 00:54:22.779 skaught: Then the bottom of the page was the wrong place to focus the user's attention, to say, Hey, I want to add a new view mode before I get into changing this one's field. 483 00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:29.989 skaught: and then you don't have to worry about the new button being the save button right like. Then then we're getting into the conversation of it 484 00:54:30.100 --> 00:54:35.589 skaught: being a modal save a double save on the form you just came from to return to the page you're on. 485 00:54:39.870 --> 00:54:40.939 But that's a 486 00:54:40.970 --> 00:54:46.479 benji: good question. So if we just restore the link down here, that's an actual link. 487 00:54:47.080 --> 00:54:48.500 benji: And then 488 00:54:49.780 --> 00:54:53.410 skaught: with them, like just actually put action links at the top of the page here. 489 00:54:53.470 --> 00:54:56.169 skaught: that is, you know, 2 490 00:54:57.350 --> 00:55:01.210 skaught: sorry. I forget what the title was for the original one, for you know, to 491 00:55:01.600 --> 00:55:05.330 skaught: modify, view modes and add new one. Their action links at the top of the page. 492 00:55:07.110 --> 00:55:09.169 benji: That's an interesting suggestion. 493 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:21.879 benji: so let's see, this is navigation. So we wouldn't want it quite in this region. But right below that. 494 00:55:22.250 --> 00:55:26.920 benji: that's the action link region. That's where it normally renders 495 00:55:28.980 --> 00:55:40.310 benji: so one level of navigation, second level of Navigation. And then action links so create new field or use existing field. You'd like to have an action link. 496 00:55:40.690 --> 00:55:52.939 skaught: I think that's a pretty reasonable suggestion. Cause people's attention to the task they want to pre perform before they get into field layouts, and then we don't have to worry about getting somebody to save something in the middle of another action. 497 00:55:56.120 --> 00:55:58.410 benji: Okay, what do people think of that suggestion? 498 00:56:01.150 --> 00:56:02.240 benji: Go ahead. Route 499 00:56:03.800 --> 00:56:12.110 Ralf Koller: I'm not sure how to put it in English, but try. 500 00:56:12.460 --> 00:56:13.349 Ralf Koller: I think 501 00:56:15.370 --> 00:56:18.180 Ralf Koller: I don't know how to express it better. It's 502 00:56:18.620 --> 00:56:21.049 Ralf Koller: for me semantically. 503 00:56:23.220 --> 00:56:24.300 Ralf Koller: The 504 00:56:25.160 --> 00:56:29.099 Ralf Koller: parts above the field set display settings is 505 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:37.230 Ralf Koller: more about the fields within that default view mode and 506 00:56:37.460 --> 00:56:39.450 Ralf Koller: having 507 00:56:39.640 --> 00:56:42.310 Ralf Koller: those, it's definitely tempting 508 00:56:42.680 --> 00:56:45.209 Ralf Koller: to place them in an interesting idea, but 509 00:56:47.060 --> 00:56:48.449 Ralf Koller: I'm not sure 510 00:56:48.700 --> 00:56:52.389 Ralf Koller: if the context would is the correct one. It's 511 00:56:54.190 --> 00:57:01.170 Ralf Koller: I'm not. It's not quite exact an intact fit. I'm not sure how to express it in English. Sorry. 512 00:57:03.600 --> 00:57:12.389 benji: Okay, so so this page, this form is mostly about fields. You want to add to a particular 513 00:57:13.410 --> 00:57:14.490 benji: view mode 514 00:57:15.430 --> 00:57:22.959 benji: and it's certainly less common activity to be adding a new display mode 515 00:57:23.780 --> 00:57:29.019 benji: or to enable display mode. And that's why this details element is normally 516 00:57:29.330 --> 00:57:30.790 benji: close by default. 517 00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:36.720 benji: and you think that 518 00:57:37.830 --> 00:57:42.059 benji: just adding a new display mode should be 519 00:57:43.630 --> 00:57:48.120 benji: closer to the list of available emails. Is that fair? 520 00:57:48.430 --> 00:57:51.050 Ralf Koller: Yeah, yeah, it's 521 00:57:51.220 --> 00:57:59.780 Ralf Koller: it's a separation of concerns. Basically, it's a different kind of action within the display settings field set than what's above 522 00:58:00.180 --> 00:58:02.170 Ralf Koller: in that list. 523 00:58:02.570 --> 00:58:04.090 benji: Go ahead, Thomas. 524 00:58:04.990 --> 00:58:11.109 Thomas Howell: For me the I think it's an interesting suggestion. However. 525 00:58:11.160 --> 00:58:39.079 Thomas Howell: when I look at this page it already gets very confusing. And this kind of leans into the other topic of drupalisms, like a view mode is something that is highly advanced, whereas the rest of the page, when you land on at the top uses the word display. And then you look at things, and you think fields. And so, having only button action, buttons at the top that only dealt 526 00:58:39.100 --> 00:58:55.370 Thomas Howell: with view modes would be really confusing, because I would have. I imagined that as a new drupal user I would come in. I'd click on it, and I'd be like, what am I doing here? It would have nothing to do with the above the fold when I landed at this link. 527 00:58:58.300 --> 00:58:59.870 Thomas Howell: It's an advanced action. 528 00:59:00.570 --> 00:59:01.400 benji: Okay? 529 00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:09.160 benji: anyone else have comments to make on that? Or can we take a quick vote on suggestion? 530 00:59:11.770 --> 00:59:14.670 benji: So who likes the suggestion of 531 00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:20.120 benji: making this an action link at the top of the page. 532 00:59:24.180 --> 00:59:29.500 benji: I'm not seeing any thumbs up. not even from Spot, who suggested her. 533 00:59:30.710 --> 00:59:33.599 skaught: Yeah, back and forth on the idea, too. Okay. 534 00:59:34.490 --> 00:59:41.669 benji: And who thinks that we should keep it as in the current 535 00:59:41.910 --> 00:59:44.400 benji: merge request and and have it in this 536 00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:53.060 benji: details element. Get a thumbs up from Ralph Seymo, Thomas I. And Duncan. Okay. 537 00:59:53.530 --> 01:00:06.499 benji: so interesting idea. Thanks for bringing it up. But I think we have pretty strong consensus not to do that. So we have consensus to restore the link 538 01:00:06.520 --> 01:00:12.519 benji: consensus views some different styling for this. and sends us to leave it where it is 539 01:00:13.650 --> 01:00:14.400 and 540 01:00:15.350 --> 01:00:20.850 benji: I guess the next point is that when I create new 541 01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:33.349 benji: view mode. I believe we should return to this form with whatever unsaved changes making part of this form 542 01:00:33.470 --> 01:00:35.480 benji: that says. 543 01:00:35.690 --> 01:00:37.460 benji: Does that have consensus? 544 01:00:40.020 --> 01:00:43.570 benji: I'm getting a Tada from Thomas, and a thumbs up from Ralph. 545 01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:47.399 benji: and a thumbs up from Duncan. Anyone disagree? 546 01:00:51.560 --> 01:01:03.100 benji: I don't see anyone disagreeing. Okay? And then the final question is. whether we should remove the options for other 547 01:01:03.770 --> 01:01:10.559 benji: content types. and I think maybe we don't have consensus on that. I think we should remove the list. 548 01:01:11.090 --> 01:01:15.310 benji: Thomas has a thumbs up and already talked about that 549 01:01:16.690 --> 01:01:27.769 benji: our other. And I get a thumbs up from Ralph. Okay. who wants to keep the list of other things? 550 01:01:33.240 --> 01:01:39.749 benji: So I guess no one's voting in favor of keeping them. Simo, you're voting to keep them. 551 01:01:40.400 --> 01:01:44.949 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I think maybe to have the least 552 01:01:45.460 --> 01:01:51.049 Simo Hellsten: while it's kind of complicated to have it as a close details element 553 01:01:51.200 --> 01:02:06.810 Simo Hellsten: would make sense. But then the it doesn't make sense in a way that we want to have the default there. So it's okay. So we we don't have consensus there. I think we'll just have to leave it at that. We do a consensus on several other points. 554 01:02:06.870 --> 01:02:08.990 benji: and we are just at time. 555 01:02:09.150 --> 01:02:11.940 benji: So thank you again for coming. 556 01:02:12.950 --> 01:02:21.040 benji: And of course we'll do it again next week, and I'll get the recording up on the issue. Within the next couple of days, I hope. 557 01:02:21.980 --> 01:02:26.540 Thomas Howell: Thank you very much, Benji. Thanks everyone. Thank you. Thanks 558 01:02:27.290 --> 01:02:27.970 Duncan Macaulay: you, too.