WEBVTT 82 00:08:18.890 --> 00:08:22.009 Benji Fisher: welcome. This is the drupal usability meeting for 83 00:08:22.020 --> 00:08:30.739 Benji Fisher: March eighth 2024. I'm Benji Fisher, moderating and also hosting a session at Nerd Summit in Amherst, Massachusetts. 84 00:08:31.460 --> 00:08:36.929 Benji Fisher: and also present at the meeting, are Aaron Mchale, Who's Sharing his screen, and we'll start off the discussion. 85 00:08:36.980 --> 00:08:40.600 Benji Fisher: Author shawl, Ralph Kohler and Simo Hilston. 86 00:08:40.700 --> 00:08:42.589 Benji Fisher: So go ahead, Erin. 87 00:08:43.309 --> 00:09:02.410 Aaron McHale: Thanks to their personal looking at this issue. There is no configuration. Sorry. There is no indication on configuration forms. If there are over in values. That's issue number 2, 4, 0 8, 5, 4, 9. 88 00:09:02.970 --> 00:09:11.420 Aaron McHale: And the idea with this issue is that when you have a jump over to a site here, 89 00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:21.910 Aaron McHale: so with any, any, any configuration and drupal. You can override it in the settings file. And this is sometimes useful, for like environment, specific configuration. 90 00:09:22.010 --> 00:09:35.459 Aaron McHale: in particular, things like error, logging settings. But if you overwrite it, there's no indication on the actual form that a different value is being used. So, for instance, 91 00:09:35.550 --> 00:09:38.019 Aaron McHale: if so, the site name here 92 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:52.240 Aaron McHale: you can see over here is test site. If this was overridden with configure in configuration to say something different, like drupal site, it would show up on the front end as drupal site, but in the site name utility test site. 93 00:09:52.510 --> 00:10:08.199 Aaron McHale: So the issue adds, it sort of addresses that by adding, I don't think this might. I don't think this is gonna stop today, screenshot. But I'm gonna demonstrate in a second. So it's fine. The the idea is, it adds a message to the form, basically saying that this form has overridden values. 94 00:10:08.500 --> 00:10:21.029 Aaron McHale: So to demonstrate hit, try open up the escort here. I have a line this line here all on comment. This is in the 3 things dot Php, file, just the one you can edit under site default. 95 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:28.439 Aaron McHale: and I've added the line in the bottom here. That's the config variable. And then it's the object which is system dot settings. 96 00:10:28.890 --> 00:10:34.319 Aaron McHale: And then I'm overriding the name property to say drippel sight. 97 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:40.810 Aaron McHale: So I'm gonna save that. Come back over here. When I refresh 98 00:10:40.980 --> 00:10:45.439 Aaron McHale: the form you'll see that I now get the status message. 99 00:10:45.630 --> 00:11:05.679 Aaron McHale: It says, the form, the following form, elements have overwritten values over in values is a link in your current context changes to those so changes to these values will be saved, but the overridden values will take precedent, and then it gives me a list of specific 100 00:11:05.760 --> 00:11:21.819 Aaron McHale: field switchable rendering values. In this case, site name, and you can say that in this case site name still says test site. But I just have to clear the cache, because you know, from Ed just heavily cached. So every 1 s, while I do that. 101 00:11:22.090 --> 00:11:24.460 Aaron McHale: and if I refresh 102 00:11:24.620 --> 00:11:31.259 Aaron McHale: front end here. we'll say it's thisruple site. Here was the site title. 103 00:11:31.310 --> 00:11:42.919 Aaron McHale: But again, I'll just refresh this. Demonstrate it still says Test site here. So the merge request. The issue is just adding this message, it's not actually 104 00:11:43.010 --> 00:12:06.749 Aaron McHale: gonna display what the overridden value is. That is by design, because we want to be careful. Sometimes, for instance, you might use overridden value to insert like an Api key, for instance. And maybe we don't want that showing in the in the Admin interface. Maybe we don't want, you know, a site builder getting at getting the hands. Api key here, we want to protect it. So that's why all this issue is doing is adding this message to just 105 00:12:06.870 --> 00:12:08.430 Aaron McHale: makes it clear 106 00:12:08.640 --> 00:12:13.619 Aaron McHale: that an overrated value is present on the form. In this case the sign name 107 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:22.689 Aaron McHale: another example of that. Actually, if you want to sort of test out of the box. If you have a site installed with D, dev, 108 00:12:22.750 --> 00:12:34.700 Aaron McHale: Ddef has this additional settings file, and it overrides a whole bunch of things, including the the system login, the error log level. So on a Ddev installed site, you would see this 109 00:12:35.030 --> 00:12:47.290 Aaron McHale: without having to make any changes by coming to the configuration and logging in errors. And then you'll see again. It's the same idea. We're with the same message. But this this time it's showing that the 110 00:12:48.050 --> 00:12:52.079 Aaron McHale: the error, message or display field is 111 00:12:52.180 --> 00:12:55.439 Aaron McHale: is being overrun. In this case the the value that's 112 00:12:55.480 --> 00:13:08.100 Benji Fisher: can can you cost per minute? So and any questions at this point? I'm conf. I am familiar with overwriting and fake. But I guess maybe not. Everyone is any questions about 113 00:13:08.740 --> 00:13:12.380 Benji Fisher: purpose of the overrides the purpose of the message. 114 00:13:15.350 --> 00:13:19.459 Benji Fisher: I'm not seeing any reactions. Okay, so go ahead. Erin. 115 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:22.670 Aaron McHale: yeah, I was just saying that like, basically is another example, where 116 00:13:22.790 --> 00:13:27.939 Aaron McHale: in this case, in the form, we have the error message to displace it to none 117 00:13:28.220 --> 00:13:34.439 Aaron McHale: button configuration or sorry in the settings set to verbals, so that would be the equivalent of 118 00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:44.250 Aaron McHale: I guess I'd be changing it to the all messages with batteries information. So that's just another example. But I thought the site settings one was 119 00:13:44.450 --> 00:13:47.539 Aaron McHale: a more clear example of how this would be used. 120 00:13:47.790 --> 00:13:56.600 Aaron McHale: so yeah, I thought so. Cause I have some ideas, or I should point out. So the link here over it and values 121 00:13:56.800 --> 00:14:02.650 Aaron McHale: actually opens a new new new tab, and it goes to the drupal documentation for 122 00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:07.060 Aaron McHale: configuration override system. And 123 00:14:07.180 --> 00:14:11.619 Aaron McHale: I have some thoughts. But I'll open up to 124 00:14:11.900 --> 00:14:14.570 Aaron McHale: to other people to get their input. First 125 00:14:20.030 --> 00:14:21.300 Benji Fisher: I'll go ahead, Simo. 126 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:28.430 Simo Hellsten: I can see that it's a polite list. Item, that site name that's been overwritten. 127 00:14:28.520 --> 00:14:35.590 Simo Hellsten: So if there are multiple values over it, and does it have a list of like all of them? As 128 00:14:35.680 --> 00:14:38.110 Aaron McHale: I believe so. So if I just like. 129 00:14:38.850 --> 00:14:48.190 Aaron McHale: that's the wrong one. So if I edit this one, if I I'll just go East copy this. I think it's mail. So if I override mail 130 00:14:48.390 --> 00:14:54.060 Aaron McHale: you can find out in a second and save us. 131 00:14:55.270 --> 00:15:03.980 Aaron McHale: Let me refresh. Yeah, so you can see if there's more than one value on this farm has been overridden. It will show each field that has an overridden value. 132 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:07.980 Benji Fisher: Oh, and it looks as though those are links to the 133 00:15:08.270 --> 00:15:13.270 Aaron McHale: location in the yeah, that's right. Yeah. So if you click, it will take you to 134 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:26.759 Aaron McHale: which didn't work as well in on the other form. Because it was. If you have a a short form, it's not, gonna you know, it's gonna ping you down to the bottom, like, if I override this value 135 00:15:26.880 --> 00:15:31.229 Aaron McHale: and I click the link. It would just take me here. I guess it would. 136 00:15:31.340 --> 00:15:36.439 Aaron McHale: Does that activate? It does activate the field. So that, take it, put your cursor in the field. So that's good. 137 00:15:40.810 --> 00:15:43.940 Benji Fisher: And Ralph shared in the zoom chat 138 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:49.290 Benji Fisher: that. We. We commented on this issue several months ago. 139 00:15:49.700 --> 00:15:52.379 Benji Fisher: Comment 1, 82 on the issue. 140 00:15:53.220 --> 00:16:03.079 Aaron McHale: let me just look that up. I I didn't remember seeing I did. A search for usability review, may sure and didn't recall seeing one. But 141 00:16:03.250 --> 00:16:06.400 Aaron McHale: Oh, okay. 142 00:16:07.650 --> 00:16:20.960 Aaron McHale: Wonder how I missed that? It's interesting. Maybe you were searching for needs usability review. The yeah. I thought I just searched for. Maybe I just searched for the tag. But it looks like the tag wasn't added or removed in this comment. So 143 00:16:21.090 --> 00:16:23.139 Aaron McHale: that would explain why. 144 00:16:26.520 --> 00:16:35.090 Aaron McHale: Okay, yeah. So we discussed it 6 months ago. And so the suggestions were, switch the message typed info 145 00:16:35.190 --> 00:16:45.930 Aaron McHale: that looks like it's been done long since being moved to the bottom of the proposed info message. Not sure what. Well, I guess that would be 146 00:16:47.050 --> 00:17:00.089 Aaron McHale: I guess that was I suppose it's been re reworked since then, but we can see the example here. and so it looks like the message has changed a bit since 147 00:17:00.150 --> 00:17:02.410 Aaron McHale: the last review. 148 00:17:04.109 --> 00:17:09.450 Aaron McHale: yeah, adding a link. So the link was added to the documentation. 149 00:17:13.760 --> 00:17:15.589 Aaron McHale: use translated label. 150 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:23.839 Aaron McHale: yeah, I got some from. 151 00:17:24.369 --> 00:17:33.500 Aaron McHale: I guess I'm looking at some. I think it's so. The the most recent comments actually were. think. yeah. 152 00:17:34.930 --> 00:17:41.129 Aaron McHale: So I a tagged it, suggesting we could. We could help in this meeting. 153 00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:48.750 Aaron McHale: and that was because of I believe it, was Alex Pott's comment. Here. 154 00:18:02.980 --> 00:18:04.799 Aaron McHale: yeah, I'm trying to remember what? 155 00:18:05.050 --> 00:18:07.109 Aaron McHale: Maybe it was. 156 00:18:23.900 --> 00:18:25.590 Aaron McHale: Okay. So 157 00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:28.889 Aaron McHale: Gabor left a comment here 158 00:18:39.850 --> 00:18:46.019 Benji Fisher: and looks as though Alex Potts explicitly removed the details. Element. 159 00:18:47.070 --> 00:18:53.260 Benji Fisher: yeah, somewhere, there's a reason for that. 160 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:06.189 Aaron McHale: Yeah. So I think it was this comment, these comments here that prompted me to retag it because, 161 00:19:07.890 --> 00:19:11.499 Aaron McHale: let me just check. That's 162 00:19:16.890 --> 00:19:18.270 Aaron McHale: yeah. So 163 00:19:21.390 --> 00:19:22.710 Aaron McHale: did Alex say 164 00:19:26.310 --> 00:19:28.069 Aaron McHale: contain devices so 165 00:19:28.210 --> 00:19:28.910 secure? 166 00:19:30.840 --> 00:19:43.169 Aaron McHale: Yes, the values in the form are not overridden. They are values from the active config which you can change from this form. I think we need some better text here, not sure yet but what that is. 167 00:19:43.760 --> 00:19:44.830 Aaron McHale: And 168 00:19:46.290 --> 00:19:48.090 Aaron McHale: I think this idea. 169 00:19:49.530 --> 00:19:57.970 Aaron McHale: Oh, Gabar! Saying I had this text suggestion in comment, one originally the form may include elements which have been over which have 170 00:19:58.020 --> 00:20:02.789 Aaron McHale: overridden values in your current context, and these values will not have changes. 171 00:20:02.820 --> 00:20:06.760 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I guess that's very similar to what is 172 00:20:07.050 --> 00:20:09.690 Aaron McHale: a currently on here. 173 00:20:17.780 --> 00:20:18.710 Benji Fisher: So 174 00:20:19.860 --> 00:20:22.259 Benji Fisher: what is it you want to talk about? 175 00:20:22.580 --> 00:20:28.500 Aaron McHale: Improve it? Is it just just the text of the message? I think we 176 00:20:28.770 --> 00:20:42.629 Aaron McHale: so one thing that comes to mind is like, I'm not. I'm not sure that having this link right here, says, you know, says overwritten values, and it takes you to a documentation page opens under your tab. That 177 00:20:42.650 --> 00:21:08.799 Aaron McHale: it's generally not the practice we'd recommend. So I think if we're gonna link to the documentation, my recommendation would be that we have a link that's as we talked about in actual think it was the last meeting where the text is informed user where they're going. Because I when I clicked over when I saw this link and I clicked it. I was expecting to actually maybe go to do something like what the links below and the list do instead. I didn't realize if it opened a documentation page. 178 00:21:08.930 --> 00:21:11.479 Aaron McHale: So I think we need to slightly better 179 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:15.009 Aaron McHale: link for for the documentation. 180 00:21:15.850 --> 00:21:19.850 Benji Fisher: Okay. you're getting a thumbs up from Cmo. 181 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:31.409 Benji Fisher: So II guess the the other things we look for in in a message like this are one. Is it clear? Is it simply worded? 182 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:37.429 Benji Fisher: 2. Does it describe the current situation? 183 00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:39.940 Benji Fisher: And 3. Does it give you 184 00:21:40.330 --> 00:21:45.110 Benji Fisher: information? Actionable information? If you want to do something about it? 185 00:21:45.520 --> 00:21:53.309 Benji Fisher: so I think the the third point is, is the link to the documentation will explain. 186 00:21:53.540 --> 00:21:59.019 Benji Fisher: what you have to do to change it. So I think it passes that 187 00:21:59.830 --> 00:22:05.280 Benji Fisher: think the text is pretty clear. The I. The only problem I see is is the one you've pointed out 188 00:22:05.380 --> 00:22:10.920 Benji Fisher: that that the link, especially for accessibility. 189 00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:20.420 Benji Fisher: should stand alone. With without context. To to in clearly indicate that it's a linked documentation. 190 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:25.630 Benji Fisher: Does anyone else see any other problems with the current text. 191 00:22:36.620 --> 00:22:40.390 Benji Fisher: so 192 00:22:41.110 --> 00:22:45.910 Benji Fisher: what is the most graceful way to rearrange the text. 193 00:22:47.310 --> 00:22:49.900 Benji Fisher: to make it clear where that link is going. 194 00:23:00.360 --> 00:23:01.470 Aaron McHale: wondering if 195 00:23:03.060 --> 00:23:04.930 Aaron McHale: what does it go to right now. 196 00:23:06.610 --> 00:23:10.850 Aaron McHale: Okay, so it goes to the configurational rate system. So that's 197 00:23:10.930 --> 00:23:17.570 Aaron McHale: that's a pretty useful page. Actually, because it is very helpful in the current context. 198 00:23:21.610 --> 00:23:28.060 Aaron McHale: so my my feeling and and others. Who would you jump in? My feeling is that 199 00:23:28.120 --> 00:23:31.330 Aaron McHale: the link should be something like 200 00:23:34.100 --> 00:23:45.610 Aaron McHale: read more about find out more about configuration, override system, something something to that effect, so that it's clear that you're going to a separate page where you can find out more information. 201 00:23:53.690 --> 00:23:58.929 Benji Fisher: Yeah. So II think. Sorry that the the simple fix would be to 202 00:24:00.070 --> 00:24:02.950 Benji Fisher: add a third short sentence. 203 00:24:04.490 --> 00:24:15.409 Benji Fisher: Yeah, read more Colon. configuration system override. you know by by default I usually take the page title 204 00:24:15.800 --> 00:24:17.699 Benji Fisher: of where where the link is going. 205 00:24:18.300 --> 00:24:24.489 Benji Fisher: And the the only problem with that is that it makes the the text 50 longer. 206 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:29.470 Benji Fisher: I see Thomas Howell is joined us. Hi, Thomas! 207 00:24:30.710 --> 00:24:39.009 Benji Fisher: Hello! We are revisiting an issue that we talked about back in September, and I think you posted a comment on the issue after 208 00:24:39.830 --> 00:24:41.759 Benji Fisher: after we reviewed it the last time. 209 00:24:45.410 --> 00:24:51.280 Benji Fisher: So Aaron points out that the the current text, the the link overridden values. 210 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:55.890 Benji Fisher: Doesn't work for accessibility. It's it's not clear 211 00:24:56.350 --> 00:25:02.019 Benji Fisher: without the context of the sentence. It's in that. It's going to a documentation page. 212 00:25:08.610 --> 00:25:12.120 Aaron McHale: Oh, I used the wrong tag. But never mind. 213 00:25:15.090 --> 00:25:19.729 Aaron McHale: maybe something like this, so that you have that link below it. Maybe 214 00:25:26.280 --> 00:25:28.089 Aaron McHale: it's not the yeah. 215 00:25:31.950 --> 00:25:34.000 Benji Fisher: Thomas, go ahead. 216 00:25:34.620 --> 00:25:39.549 Why not? Just say documentation about the configuration override system? 217 00:25:41.900 --> 00:25:43.549 That would be very explicit. 218 00:25:45.450 --> 00:25:47.929 Aaron McHale: So I'm sorry. Can you? 219 00:25:49.020 --> 00:25:51.009 Aaron McHale: Can you? Can you phrase that again? 220 00:25:51.500 --> 00:25:58.870 Thomas Howell: Rather than read more. Just replace, read more with documentation. So it says, documentation about configuration override system? 221 00:25:59.280 --> 00:26:00.050 Aaron McHale: Right? 222 00:26:03.510 --> 00:26:04.380 I mean 223 00:26:04.620 --> 00:26:10.230 Thomas Howell: it doesn't even have to include system. It could just be documentation about configuration override. 224 00:26:11.150 --> 00:26:20.799 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I could say some cause. That's what the the page says. But But if the page title changes, then it becomes inconsistent. So maybe 225 00:26:21.330 --> 00:26:26.299 Aaron McHale: yeah, maybe we don't need the word system. Configuration overwrite, maybe cause that's 226 00:26:29.080 --> 00:26:31.069 Aaron McHale: I'll drop the 227 00:26:34.340 --> 00:26:36.550 Aaron McHale: and did that. 228 00:26:39.840 --> 00:26:52.280 Benji Fisher: and I'm generally a fan of complete sentences. But for for something like this I might sometimes use some just documentation Colon. and then the link. 229 00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:54.550 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 230 00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:57.579 Benji Fisher: And I think, Ralph, you wanted to say something. 231 00:26:58.290 --> 00:26:59.140 Ralf Koller: Oh, yeah. 232 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:16.439 Ralf Koller: Aaron, remove to read more now. But the only deep thing, I would add is, I wouldn't wrap the entire sentence in a link if there is also a report. And also in in that case now, even though it isn't 233 00:27:17.060 --> 00:27:18.560 Ralf Koller: a 234 00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:28.330 Ralf Koller: a link element, a link element, but in a link element like the ones above. But having those 3 in a row now. 235 00:27:29.770 --> 00:27:31.630 Ralf Koller: the impression might 236 00:27:33.410 --> 00:27:44.129 Ralf Koller: may be made that basically it belongs also to that list, and instead of placing it at the bottom, moving it up in the 237 00:27:44.170 --> 00:27:54.660 Ralf Koller: in the introductory part with the following form, elements have override values and so forth at the end as a third sentence, maybe 238 00:27:56.100 --> 00:27:57.480 Ralf Koller: that is just a thought. 239 00:27:59.620 --> 00:28:06.350 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I was also thinking that it should go at the end of the 2 existing sentences. 240 00:28:06.550 --> 00:28:07.540 Benji Fisher: And 241 00:28:07.970 --> 00:28:15.800 Benji Fisher: you know, there are cases where a whole lot of things are are being overridden. So like Api or mailer 242 00:28:16.570 --> 00:28:18.340 Benji Fisher: and 243 00:28:19.260 --> 00:28:23.310 Benji Fisher: we. We don't want the documentation link to be 244 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:29.969 Benji Fisher: hidden because it's below, because you need to scroll to it or something. 245 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:31.620 Aaron McHale: So 246 00:28:32.230 --> 00:28:35.999 Benji Fisher: I think, put putting the link before the list is a good idea. 247 00:28:37.910 --> 00:28:39.099 Aaron McHale: Why is it gone? 248 00:28:40.550 --> 00:28:44.230 Aaron McHale: Can mess something up here because it's got like. But, added the link twice. 249 00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:48.430 Aaron McHale: see if I can 250 00:28:52.290 --> 00:28:53.850 Aaron McHale: extract this out. 251 00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:07.549 Aaron McHale: Okay, so you're suggesting, like. at the end of this sentence. 252 00:29:10.510 --> 00:29:11.190 Benji Fisher: right? 253 00:29:12.790 --> 00:29:14.239 Benji Fisher: So above the list. 254 00:29:17.660 --> 00:29:20.850 Ralf Koller: and maybe re-add the read more. 255 00:29:22.310 --> 00:29:24.940 Ralf Koller: not wrapped in that link. 256 00:29:25.350 --> 00:29:26.260 Aaron McHale: Hmm! 257 00:29:29.270 --> 00:29:34.360 Thomas Howell: I'm not a fan of the wording. Read more, though it sounds really weird to me in a website. 258 00:29:37.010 --> 00:29:40.209 Ralf Koller: more more information, reference 259 00:29:40.290 --> 00:29:41.610 Benji Fisher: details. 260 00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:45.699 Benji Fisher: What what would you suggest, Thomas? 261 00:29:48.510 --> 00:29:54.180 Thomas Howell: I mean, II still prefer documentation, because it's literally going to documentation. 262 00:29:55.720 --> 00:30:00.579 And I'm fine pulling about. But the read more sounds 263 00:30:00.620 --> 00:30:04.680 Thomas Howell: like marketing copy. To me. It doesn't sound like what I would 264 00:30:04.900 --> 00:30:08.050 Thomas Howell: read about it in a Ui. 265 00:30:08.930 --> 00:30:12.399 Aaron McHale: What about just configuration, override documentation? Then 266 00:30:14.580 --> 00:30:16.050 Aaron McHale: one fewer word. 267 00:30:16.250 --> 00:30:18.829 Thomas Howell: Yeah, I'm I'm okay with that 268 00:30:21.140 --> 00:30:24.819 Aaron McHale: cause. I think I think, like, normally, we wanna like, Have, you know. 269 00:30:25.100 --> 00:30:36.340 Aaron McHale: explicitly text. But you know, we made a really good point that this could be quite a long list, and we wanna try and minimize the amount of like things that you have to parse in this message. Yeah. 270 00:30:42.120 --> 00:30:46.220 Aaron McHale: Doesn't need like a print like a, you know full stop ellipse. 271 00:30:47.590 --> 00:30:50.050 Benji Fisher: Well, if it's not a full sentence, then it doesn't 272 00:30:50.690 --> 00:30:52.280 Aaron McHale: need a full stop. 273 00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:11.050 Aaron McHale: No, something something about that doesn't quite set with me. I think it's just have a drop. That Link text is. 274 00:31:12.610 --> 00:31:14.129 Benji Fisher: go ahead, Ralph. 275 00:31:15.070 --> 00:31:17.210 Ralf Koller: Not sure. I think 276 00:31:18.090 --> 00:31:26.490 Ralf Koller: I agree. I sort of agree with Thomas in regards of read. More sounds sort of odd, but still it should be a bit 277 00:31:26.760 --> 00:31:33.359 Ralf Koller: at least actionable at the moment. It's just configuration overrides documentation. It's something like 278 00:31:34.210 --> 00:31:41.340 Ralf Koller: eat or eat or die, or I don't know what the saying in English is the correct one, but 279 00:31:42.350 --> 00:31:48.240 Ralf Koller: and also it's the same like at before it was at the bottom. Now it's at the top. It could be still 280 00:31:48.620 --> 00:31:53.369 Ralf Koller: kind of considered as one link of the the others underneath 281 00:31:53.900 --> 00:32:05.309 Ralf Koller: that way, and therefore, and this also doesn't have a a period at the end, and therefore it could be also considered one list item that way, and therefore I still think some sort of 282 00:32:05.710 --> 00:32:07.050 Ralf Koller: yeah, can I? 283 00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:08.440 Ralf Koller: Yep, go ahead. 284 00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:16.240 Benji Fisher: But let's let's make it a full sentence. Keep what you have as the link text. But S started with C, 285 00:32:16.890 --> 00:32:20.099 Benji Fisher: and then link configuration overs documentation. 286 00:32:20.280 --> 00:32:24.210 Benji Fisher: And then for details period. 287 00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:27.060 Aaron McHale: okay? 288 00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:30.029 Benji Fisher: And and that 289 00:32:30.060 --> 00:32:35.249 Benji Fisher: sets it off from the other links so that it's more clearly part of the 290 00:32:37.210 --> 00:32:42.720 Aaron McHale: so what? Sorry what you said then, to see configuration override 291 00:32:42.740 --> 00:32:44.140 Aaron McHale: for documentation 292 00:32:48.140 --> 00:32:52.310 Benji Fisher: and whoops. You've got that inside the list. 293 00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:58.330 Aaron McHale: Hold up. What is? 294 00:32:59.770 --> 00:33:01.110 Aaron McHale: Oh, I see. 295 00:33:03.310 --> 00:33:04.990 Aaron McHale: Okay. 296 00:33:09.130 --> 00:33:12.120 Aaron McHale: anything. HTML on the fly is fun. 297 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:25.269 Aaron McHale: is it? For details? It's like the link, because it's it's not for details about this message. It's more about like for the system. So 298 00:33:25.660 --> 00:33:30.039 Benji Fisher: for more information. I was just trying to keep it short. 299 00:33:30.460 --> 00:33:33.269 Benji Fisher: since it's already too long. 300 00:33:34.100 --> 00:33:39.079 Aaron McHale: Sorry I got a a spam call just there, and it took over my headset. 301 00:33:39.630 --> 00:33:42.770 Aaron McHale: or 11, 302 00:33:43.620 --> 00:33:45.900 Benji Fisher: for more information would would be 303 00:33:46.100 --> 00:33:50.010 Benji Fisher: perhaps clearer. Just a little bit longer. 304 00:33:50.020 --> 00:33:51.050 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 305 00:33:53.010 --> 00:34:03.389 Benji Fisher: personally, II think that. That's clear. It solves a lot of the problems we've we've brought up. The only thing I don't like about it is that it's as I said, earlier. 306 00:34:03.450 --> 00:34:06.039 Benji Fisher: 50% longer than the original text. 307 00:34:07.170 --> 00:34:07.990 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 308 00:34:08.139 --> 00:34:14.290 Aaron McHale: let's change the zoom level. Asks. 309 00:34:14.550 --> 00:34:15.939 Benji Fisher: did we ever ask. 310 00:34:16.219 --> 00:34:22.189 Benji Fisher: Did you ever try asking Claude AI for things like that generate short sentence, for I don't think I have. 311 00:34:22.699 --> 00:34:28.320 Benji Fisher: That's something you want to do and post the results in the chat. 312 00:34:30.489 --> 00:34:34.299 Ofer Shaal: or, of course, feel free to speak up 313 00:34:34.860 --> 00:34:40.699 Ofer Shaal: And you, I need to connect from my computer. be right back. Okay. 314 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:57.259 Thomas Howell: we could shorten things like the following to these form elements, I mean, because I don't know what other form elements they'd be referring to like, we could do a we could try and pull some of the words out to shorten the first 2 sentences. 315 00:35:00.590 --> 00:35:03.350 Aaron McHale: or could we just start with 316 00:35:03.700 --> 00:35:09.770 Aaron McHale: farm elements. or like some some form elements 317 00:35:12.640 --> 00:35:20.399 Aaron McHale: I did is this word current context, like, I kind of give a better word for that. But like, does that does that make sense. 318 00:35:26.750 --> 00:35:29.769 Aaron McHale: because the point is like, I get what they're saying. It's like 319 00:35:30.690 --> 00:35:38.640 Aaron McHale: it that could be like on this environment or in this specific situation that you happen to be in. It's 320 00:35:41.810 --> 00:35:46.870 Benji Fisher: yeah. I'm I'm not sure what the that phrase current context 321 00:35:47.110 --> 00:35:51.170 Benji Fisher: means. And here, cause I think we could strike it. 322 00:35:51.690 --> 00:35:52.480 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 323 00:35:54.200 --> 00:35:56.410 Thomas Howell: In the chat room 324 00:35:56.870 --> 00:36:01.360 Benji Fisher: route in the chat. Ralph is suggesting on the current page, or 325 00:36:01.410 --> 00:36:02.630 Benji Fisher: this page. 326 00:36:03.010 --> 00:36:05.229 Benji Fisher: I'm in favor of just 327 00:36:05.380 --> 00:36:08.080 Benji Fisher: striking it rather than replacing it with anything 328 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:10.030 Aaron McHale: less is more. 329 00:36:14.150 --> 00:36:21.559 Benji Fisher: Some form. Elements have overridden values, changes to these, values will be saved. There's little repetition there. 330 00:36:21.680 --> 00:36:26.640 Benji Fisher: but the overridden values will take precedence. Tom, let's go ahead. 331 00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:39.930 Thomas Howell: Ii was just gonna say that. Almost everything. The website is contextual. So it's weird to call it out here. So I really wanted to support the shorter version, 332 00:36:40.620 --> 00:36:45.509 Thomas Howell: and I feel like the second, like. Sentence is also longer than it needs to be. Still. 333 00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:51.629 Aaron McHale: yeah, we have values, values, values, values. That's a little annoying. 334 00:37:03.980 --> 00:37:04.990 Benji Fisher: Would it 335 00:37:05.240 --> 00:37:10.449 Benji Fisher: still be clear if we just said, changes will be saved. 336 00:37:11.090 --> 00:37:14.530 Benji Fisher: So removing to these values 337 00:37:15.080 --> 00:37:18.450 Benji Fisher: changes will be same. But the overridden values will 338 00:37:19.370 --> 00:37:20.779 Benji Fisher: take precedence. 339 00:37:21.680 --> 00:37:32.319 Aaron McHale: I'm also thinking that, like technically, this isn't correct because some formalance is is actually not certainly true, because the formalance actually don't have those room values. 340 00:37:32.690 --> 00:37:38.450 Aaron McHale: It's it's what you see like. Here is the overridden value, not here. 341 00:37:40.530 --> 00:37:50.180 Aaron McHale: May maybe some form values rather than that form elements, or maybe, like some some configuration. 342 00:37:51.940 --> 00:38:00.310 Ralf Koller: Just one idea. About the second sentence, and instead of but the overwritten values just use. But the overrides will take precedence 343 00:38:00.380 --> 00:38:03.040 Ralf Koller: that way. You could strike values. 344 00:38:07.430 --> 00:38:08.770 Ralf Koller: and it's all the shorter. 345 00:38:11.890 --> 00:38:13.030 Benji Fisher: Thomas. 346 00:38:14.310 --> 00:38:20.140 Thomas Howell: Could we try something along the lines of some form. 347 00:38:20.330 --> 00:38:24.869 Thomas Howell: Values are overridden elsewhere. That might be more clear. 348 00:38:25.530 --> 00:38:28.549 cause if we're not saying they're not here, or 349 00:38:29.060 --> 00:38:32.989 Aaron McHale: and I don't like some a whole lot. But 350 00:38:34.160 --> 00:38:41.059 Thomas Howell: these form values are overridden, and then maybe, or maybe not elsewhere. 351 00:38:41.700 --> 00:38:45.990 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I like our overwritten rather than have overwritten values. 352 00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:48.279 Aaron McHale: So some. 353 00:38:48.710 --> 00:38:54.769 Benji Fisher: And and I, yeah, I agree also with with Thomas that that we should go back to these rather than 354 00:38:54.860 --> 00:39:06.080 Benji Fisher: some, because we are explicit legalistic ones that are overridden. It was originally the following, and you changed that to some 355 00:39:07.710 --> 00:39:12.490 Aaron McHale: so sorry. Then, after elements, what were we saying? 356 00:39:12.850 --> 00:39:18.770 Thomas Howell: I said, these form values are overwritten. 357 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:22.670 Benji Fisher: Right? 358 00:39:28.870 --> 00:39:31.940 Aaron McHale: Yeah. What was the holdup? 359 00:39:33.620 --> 00:39:38.920 Aaron McHale: I can get a oh, yeah, I can. Just reload this page on your tub 360 00:39:39.600 --> 00:39:41.580 Aaron McHale: very carefully. 361 00:39:44.580 --> 00:39:49.999 Aaron McHale: Yeah. So we went for from the following fair amount of simple written values in your current context 362 00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:56.019 Aaron McHale: to these form elements. Sorry these form values are overridden. 363 00:39:58.330 --> 00:39:59.250 Aaron McHale: It's like 364 00:40:03.510 --> 00:40:04.969 Aaron McHale: are overwritten 365 00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:12.470 Aaron McHale: in, maybe, like in some. 366 00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:14.540 Aaron McHale: in some cases 367 00:40:16.170 --> 00:40:17.120 Aaron McHale: can. Yep. 368 00:40:17.590 --> 00:40:24.159 Aaron McHale: I'm trying to. I'm trying to think of like, how do we emphasize the fact that, like you don't, they're not overridden on this page. 369 00:40:24.330 --> 00:40:30.390 Aaron McHale: but in other places. The value you put here is not the value that will be displayed. 370 00:40:35.790 --> 00:40:40.470 Thomas Howell: Then you put in something like elsewhere. These form values are overwritten elsewhere. 371 00:40:40.820 --> 00:40:45.249 Benji Fisher: No, no, III think the documentation 372 00:40:45.820 --> 00:40:49.520 Benji Fisher: link. we'll we'll clarify that if 373 00:40:49.910 --> 00:40:52.490 Benji Fisher: if people are are confused. 374 00:40:54.620 --> 00:40:58.350 Aaron McHale: yeah, because we are saying something here. So 375 00:40:59.100 --> 00:41:05.090 Benji Fisher: I think what we say is is accurate and 376 00:41:05.850 --> 00:41:06.900 Benji Fisher: and brief 377 00:41:07.820 --> 00:41:14.949 Benji Fisher: and and being brief, it's yeah, it's not going to explain to someone who doesn't understand what's going on 378 00:41:15.050 --> 00:41:17.880 Benji Fisher: but that's what the linked documentation is for 379 00:41:18.340 --> 00:41:31.470 Aaron McHale: wonder where current context came from. 380 00:41:33.260 --> 00:41:34.900 Aaron McHale: But I can 381 00:41:35.060 --> 00:41:36.229 Aaron McHale: oh, my gosh. 382 00:41:38.250 --> 00:41:39.790 Aaron McHale: so let me go 383 00:41:40.020 --> 00:41:42.069 Aaron McHale: to ralph, go ahead. 384 00:41:42.260 --> 00:41:48.190 Ralf Koller: just, oh. could you quickly go back to the example. 385 00:41:49.150 --> 00:41:50.500 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 386 00:41:50.870 --> 00:41:51.530 Ralf Koller: thank 387 00:41:53.790 --> 00:42:02.079 Ralf Koller: yeah. Yeah. Would it make sense these formalities over it and change it? 388 00:42:05.490 --> 00:42:07.219 Ralf Koller: Oh, no, it's oh. 389 00:42:08.220 --> 00:42:10.910 Ralf Koller: oh, sorry after rethink. 390 00:42:11.240 --> 00:42:11.980 Benji Fisher: Okay? 391 00:42:13.530 --> 00:42:16.740 Benji Fisher: Oh, just saw in the chat. 392 00:42:17.120 --> 00:42:19.390 Benji Fisher: offer 393 00:42:20.080 --> 00:42:26.609 Benji Fisher: suggests overridden form values take precedence. Despite saving changes. 394 00:42:27.180 --> 00:42:30.669 Benji Fisher: Refer to configuration override docs. 395 00:42:35.810 --> 00:42:39.410 Ofer Shaal: Yeah, I just. I took the text from the screen and 396 00:42:39.940 --> 00:42:42.030 Ofer Shaal: ask it to make it very concise. 397 00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:51.310 Aaron McHale: have a feeling that 398 00:42:51.680 --> 00:43:06.699 Aaron McHale: I know that we have a policy about how we use things from AI. And I don't remember what like if we have, if if we use that, I think we have to like stay somewhere, that it was generated by AI or something. II don't know the exact policy, though. 399 00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:10.599 Benji Fisher: We we should look that up 400 00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:14.429 Benji Fisher: before the next meeting go ahead. 401 00:43:14.540 --> 00:43:16.769 Ralf Koller: I think now I've 402 00:43:16.980 --> 00:43:19.709 Ralf Koller: figured it out. What I wanted to say. 403 00:43:20.490 --> 00:43:29.279 Ralf Koller: From my perspective. These form values overwritten changes will be saved, that that changes which the question is, which changes. 404 00:43:29.410 --> 00:43:38.420 Ralf Koller: and would it make sense to make clear changes made here on this form basically will be saved, but the overrides will take precedence 405 00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:39.830 Ralf Koller: to make that 406 00:43:40.190 --> 00:43:41.970 Ralf Koller: exactly 407 00:43:42.030 --> 00:43:43.950 Ralf Koller: as crystal clear to people. 408 00:43:45.230 --> 00:43:47.029 Benji Fisher: Yeah, Aaron, can you 409 00:43:47.150 --> 00:43:53.770 Benji Fisher: insert insert a few words? Changes on this form will be saved. And then could you take offers? 410 00:43:53.910 --> 00:44:00.039 Benji Fisher: Suggested text and put it in as a separate paragraph, just for comparison? 411 00:44:00.380 --> 00:44:02.290 Aaron McHale: Yeah, 412 00:44:03.870 --> 00:44:06.560 Aaron McHale: for me. Hold up. 413 00:44:10.640 --> 00:44:11.560 Aaron McHale: I'm gonna 414 00:44:16.790 --> 00:44:21.190 Aaron McHale: it's gonna like duplicate the whole thing, because otherwise it's gonna get weird. 415 00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:28.500 Aaron McHale: So how did? So it will take precedent. 416 00:44:28.520 --> 00:44:29.640 Aaron McHale: And then it's 417 00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:34.700 Aaron McHale: okay? 418 00:44:43.670 --> 00:44:45.880 Benji Fisher: And I actually don't like 419 00:44:46.150 --> 00:44:48.519 Benji Fisher: that. AI generated sentence. 420 00:44:49.490 --> 00:44:58.079 Benji Fisher: I think, despite saving changes, really rubs me the wrong way. I think that 421 00:44:58.430 --> 00:45:09.139 Benji Fisher: III think it it. It's not clear that the overrides are currently in effect. 422 00:45:09.790 --> 00:45:14.420 Benji Fisher: and will still be in effect, if you make changes and save the form. 423 00:45:14.690 --> 00:45:15.820 Benji Fisher: the 424 00:45:16.070 --> 00:45:19.010 Benji Fisher: the the AI generated texts 425 00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:21.259 Benji Fisher: sort of says to me 426 00:45:21.520 --> 00:45:28.049 Benji Fisher: that yeah, it. It's only interacts if you change change it. And II think our 427 00:45:28.790 --> 00:45:31.009 Benji Fisher: the text we had is is clearer. 428 00:45:35.660 --> 00:45:36.450 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 429 00:45:37.610 --> 00:45:41.590 Benji Fisher: you've duplicated it, but you didn't 430 00:45:42.620 --> 00:45:44.450 Benji Fisher: replace 431 00:45:44.470 --> 00:45:46.160 Benji Fisher: power text with the 432 00:45:47.100 --> 00:45:50.530 Aaron McHale: I thought II thought I did. I was the only thing. 433 00:45:55.570 --> 00:45:57.470 Aaron McHale: Yeah, cause 434 00:45:57.510 --> 00:45:58.729 Aaron McHale: alright and 435 00:45:59.200 --> 00:46:02.399 Aaron McHale: cause it starts overridden, overridden. Fo 436 00:46:02.690 --> 00:46:05.500 Aaron McHale: over in form values. Okay? 437 00:46:07.650 --> 00:46:09.350 Aaron McHale: Oh, I see. I 438 00:46:10.690 --> 00:46:13.720 Aaron McHale: me just copy the whole thing. That'd be easier. 439 00:46:14.860 --> 00:46:16.300 Benji Fisher: I mean, I think 440 00:46:19.430 --> 00:46:26.789 Benji Fisher: I think our version starts with this really short sentence explaining the current state. And I think that's a virtue 441 00:46:27.060 --> 00:46:28.959 Benji Fisher: of a speaker's message. 442 00:46:31.660 --> 00:46:48.159 Aaron McHale: offer! Where? Where was the text meant to start from it? Did did you intend for the first sentence II was just giving it the full these form values are II gave it the whole thing and ask it to write it more concise, and that would 443 00:46:48.260 --> 00:47:02.389 Ofer Shaal: came back. We we can make adjustment if you think we should use something like that. I just sometimes especially for me, because English, not my first language. I found Claude to be incredible in saying things I wanna say in a better way. 444 00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:14.050 Ofer Shaal: where? Especially when again, I can adjust it by telling it. Oh, but it's not clear that something, or make it shorter or friendlier, or I can ask you to do things, and in half a second I get back a result. 445 00:47:15.330 --> 00:47:23.650 Aaron McHale: I'm just gonna dump in friendly. Or I think that's something that II should be using more often. 446 00:47:23.890 --> 00:47:25.280 Aaron McHale: I'm just gonna do this. 447 00:47:34.770 --> 00:47:36.980 Aaron McHale: yeah. 448 00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:47.130 Aaron McHale: again, it's not like this is the thing. It's not overridden form values. It's overridden configuration values. Technically. 449 00:47:51.510 --> 00:48:06.810 Aaron McHale: So this isn't. Actually, it's shortened. It but it's it's changed the context of what this means when it in doing so to make this not true. Okay, let's let's hear Thomas's comment, and then take a quick vote on on which version we prefer. 450 00:48:07.950 --> 00:48:14.310 Thomas Howell: These are really tiny changes, and I don't know if they're even if they change the message. But in the first sentence. 451 00:48:14.390 --> 00:48:26.930 Thomas Howell: can we say safely, these values are overwritten. Changes on this form will be saved, but overrides will take precedence. See? Configuration overrides documentation for more. 452 00:48:28.040 --> 00:48:30.189 Benji Fisher: So you're just striking 453 00:48:31.590 --> 00:48:37.320 Benji Fisher: form. I'm striking the. 454 00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:41.400 Benji Fisher: And instead, for more information you're suggesting just for more. 455 00:48:41.650 --> 00:48:51.080 Thomas Howell: Yeah. And we can leave information like that was last second change with it. I'm just trying to get some more word economy cause that's really what Claude 456 00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:56.940 Thomas Howell: AI did was get a lot of word economy. I 457 00:48:57.980 --> 00:49:01.030 Thomas Howell: I'm not sure that saving 458 00:49:02.520 --> 00:49:19.159 Thomas Howell: 5 words is worth it to switch versions, because, like the the length difference, isn't that big. And the way the cloud AI is written refer to like, we don't have the link in there. We're back to ending on the link 459 00:49:19.300 --> 00:49:24.560 Thomas Howell: where configuration override docs would be the link, which is what Ralph 460 00:49:24.640 --> 00:49:35.339 Thomas Howell: rightly brought up earlier kind of looks like. It's part of everything else. So II feel like they really aren't. The differences between these 2, even without the changes I've suggested 461 00:49:35.430 --> 00:49:36.570 Thomas Howell: are minimal. 462 00:49:36.730 --> 00:49:42.340 Thomas Howell: and we can get some more word economy at the cost of it sounding 463 00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:44.319 Thomas Howell: or being as readable. 464 00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:56.239 Aaron McHale: so what was sorry w what was the changes that you said to this first sentence, 465 00:49:57.010 --> 00:50:04.410 Thomas Howell: these values are. So drop form from the first sentence. 466 00:50:04.510 --> 00:50:09.979 Aaron McHale: yeah, cause farm is not true. Strictly speaking, in this context. So okay. 467 00:50:10.110 --> 00:50:16.869 Thomas Howell: these values are overridden. Changes on this form will be saved, but overrides will take precedence. We don't strike forward fakes 468 00:50:17.350 --> 00:50:22.300 Aaron McHale: before overrides after, but I got you. 469 00:50:22.750 --> 00:50:26.610 Thomas Howell: and it is overrides. Got one d too many in it. 470 00:50:27.590 --> 00:50:29.799 Aaron McHale: Yes, I don't. 471 00:50:30.110 --> 00:50:33.330 Aaron McHale: It needs 2 h, but only a single d. 472 00:50:33.550 --> 00:50:45.779 Aaron McHale: Oh, saving lectures everywhere. So now we're talking about 20 letters difference between these 2 sentences. 473 00:50:45.850 --> 00:50:57.719 Aaron McHale: Okay, so was, did. Was there sorry? Was there another? Did you say something about the phone? The third sentence to change? I I'm removing like, ignore what I said about that. This is fine. 474 00:50:57.890 --> 00:50:58.650 Aaron McHale: Alright. 475 00:50:59.640 --> 00:51:03.289 Benji Fisher: okay. So now let's let's take a quick vote. 476 00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:07.779 Benji Fisher: who's in favor of the first sentence, I am 477 00:51:10.090 --> 00:51:13.270 Benji Fisher: thumbs up from Semo and Ralph and Thomas. 478 00:51:14.470 --> 00:51:19.389 Benji Fisher: and who's in favor of the shorter version below. 479 00:51:22.130 --> 00:51:23.619 Benji Fisher: Quick! Take your thumbs down. 480 00:51:24.020 --> 00:51:27.700 Benji Fisher: offer an errand or abstaining. Okay. 481 00:51:28.380 --> 00:51:33.309 Aaron McHale: I guess I'm in favor of the first one. 482 00:51:33.610 --> 00:51:42.680 Benji Fisher: So III will admit to a certain bias for for things that I come up with things that an AI suggests 483 00:51:42.910 --> 00:51:50.059 Benji Fisher: and and II try to be aware of my biases. But yeah, II think in this case that we, we have solid reasons 484 00:51:50.520 --> 00:51:51.849 Aaron McHale: for perverting 485 00:51:51.940 --> 00:51:53.619 Benji Fisher: the version. Yeah, came up with. 486 00:51:54.470 --> 00:51:57.060 Aaron McHale: as said, it's also like 487 00:51:57.810 --> 00:52:06.950 Aaron McHale: this, this is this is also like what it. What they've done is a shortened it, but it's missed out some context that now makes the sentence like inaccurate. So 488 00:52:07.290 --> 00:52:09.320 Aaron McHale: I 489 00:52:09.630 --> 00:52:13.900 Aaron McHale: I think we kill the A I 490 00:52:15.230 --> 00:52:24.639 Benji Fisher: is this the right? Okay? So the original goal was really for accessibility rather than usability to make the 491 00:52:25.170 --> 00:52:29.909 Benji Fisher: link text something that would be understandable out of context 492 00:52:31.710 --> 00:52:33.240 Benji Fisher: and 493 00:52:34.470 --> 00:52:38.310 Benji Fisher: course, less is more. And we were unhappy making the 494 00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:41.859 Benji Fisher: the text longer. But we've succeeded in getting it 495 00:52:42.050 --> 00:52:45.149 Benji Fisher: really close to the current version? 496 00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:48.120 Benji Fisher: So I like that, Simo. 497 00:52:50.160 --> 00:52:54.270 Simo Hellsten: the question about the listover 498 00:52:54.670 --> 00:52:55.550 Simo Hellsten: of 499 00:52:55.980 --> 00:53:02.840 Simo Hellsten: values. So we have site, name and email address. So it's obvious they are not in alphabetical order. 500 00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:15.770 Simo Hellsten: They are in the same order that they are on the form. But do we know if it's coincidence here? Or is it always the same order than in the form? Or might it be something like a summer 501 00:53:16.290 --> 00:53:21.140 Simo Hellsten: system setting that just orders them like that some kind of wait. 502 00:53:22.390 --> 00:53:26.760 Simo Hellsten: So do we know if it's always the order they appear on the form 503 00:53:27.200 --> 00:53:28.910 Benji Fisher: we're just looking at like 504 00:53:29.270 --> 00:53:34.790 Benji Fisher: without looking at the code. I don't think we can be sure, but my guess is that it's in the in the form order. 505 00:53:34.890 --> 00:53:43.179 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So we could like ask to check that they are in some kind of. They are ordered the same always, so 506 00:53:43.650 --> 00:53:46.570 Simo Hellsten: it would make sense to have them in the form order. 507 00:53:46.770 --> 00:53:56.919 Simo Hellsten: or for a very long, long list. It would make sense to have them in alphabetical order, but I think the order they appear on the form makes sense, but it should be. 508 00:53:56.950 --> 00:54:01.440 Simo Hellsten: would be good to check that it's taken care of. 509 00:54:03.710 --> 00:54:10.720 Aaron McHale: I mean, we we can state that we agree is that, having them in the order they appear on the farm is a good thing. 510 00:54:10.760 --> 00:54:13.730 Aaron McHale: which I think is such II would agree with. 511 00:54:14.040 --> 00:54:24.230 Aaron McHale: II think my feeling is based on a quick reading of that. Some of the recent comments, something they are, because it's it's like scanning down the former way and looking for things that have 512 00:54:24.570 --> 00:54:27.719 Aaron McHale: overridden. But we can 513 00:54:27.740 --> 00:54:30.680 Aaron McHale: support that decision at least. 514 00:54:34.350 --> 00:54:41.099 Benji Fisher: Yeah. And didn't. We're getting a thumbs up from Thomas on that, and and offer his posted into the chat 515 00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:42.280 a 516 00:54:43.120 --> 00:54:48.110 Aaron McHale: the result of make it friendlier. The AI comes up with this rather 517 00:54:48.560 --> 00:54:49.530 Benji Fisher: long 518 00:54:49.650 --> 00:55:05.149 Benji Fisher: thing with a lot of extra words that are supposed to make it friendlier. Hey? There! Just a heads up. Some form fields have preset values for this context. Any changes you make will be saved, but those preset overrides will still take priority. If you need more details, feel free to check out. 519 00:55:05.940 --> 00:55:09.620 Benji Fisher: I'm sorry to check out configuration, override documentation. 520 00:55:11.550 --> 00:55:16.180 Benji Fisher: I 521 00:55:17.180 --> 00:55:26.739 Benji Fisher: II guess I would never write that. So so I will continue my curmudgeonly ways, and and not try to make my text more friendly. 522 00:55:27.400 --> 00:55:34.140 Benji Fisher: great, and any further improvements on this 523 00:55:34.640 --> 00:55:35.520 Benji Fisher: feature. 524 00:55:39.770 --> 00:55:45.520 Aaron McHale: But yeah, I don't. I think I think the tricky like it's it. This is a tricky one, because 525 00:55:46.780 --> 00:55:50.719 Aaron McHale: I think this is probably the the the best we're gonna get. 526 00:55:50.750 --> 00:55:57.899 Aaron McHale: And like, I don't think there's a perfect solution here, because of just how like how many different ways this could be true. 527 00:55:58.370 --> 00:56:05.330 Aaron McHale: So I think this is probably the best we can. We're gonna get. I think. So. Yeah. 528 00:56:07.090 --> 00:56:10.719 Benji Fisher: And Ralph points out, there are to follow up issues 529 00:56:11.300 --> 00:56:13.420 Benji Fisher: already. 530 00:56:14.930 --> 00:56:19.340 Aaron McHale: I was looking actually about where current contacts came from 531 00:56:21.750 --> 00:56:24.720 Aaron McHale: goes all the way back to the start of the issue. 532 00:56:25.340 --> 00:56:30.799 Aaron McHale: I think the first instance of the word current context is like, literally in comment one. 533 00:56:36.220 --> 00:56:37.060 Aaron McHale: So 534 00:56:41.950 --> 00:56:43.910 Aaron McHale: I don't think there's any more recent. 535 00:56:48.590 --> 00:56:51.399 So we have 5 min left. 536 00:56:51.880 --> 00:57:01.599 Benji Fisher: here here at the conference where where I am. No, no one else showed up, so I guess it's just as well that I never got the audio working. 537 00:57:01.910 --> 00:57:05.860 Aaron McHale: and Aaron, will you 538 00:57:06.100 --> 00:57:08.639 Benji Fisher: leave the comment for this issue? 539 00:57:10.240 --> 00:57:11.490 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I can do. 540 00:57:13.840 --> 00:57:18.140 Benji Fisher: And you know, 5 min. And it's isn't really enough to 541 00:57:18.850 --> 00:57:23.370 Benji Fisher: towards another issue. But okay, go ahead, Thomas. 542 00:57:24.220 --> 00:57:34.209 Thomas Howell: Very briefly. So this year is not the year to do it. But at some point would it behoove us at the main 543 00:57:34.330 --> 00:57:42.430 Thomas Howell: to try and get more visibility to the ux team. The ux work we do to get more 544 00:57:43.160 --> 00:57:46.120 Thomas Howell: participation. 545 00:57:46.240 --> 00:58:05.309 Thomas Howell: Iii feel like we could do a cool presentation in the future. I don't have any time, and I don't think it's right of me to suggest this without volunteering myself to be part of whatever work would be needed. But I think we could do a cool presentation, because this work is really it's it's really unglamorous. 546 00:58:05.650 --> 00:58:06.800 Thomas Howell: But 547 00:58:06.910 --> 00:58:09.750 Thomas Howell: it makes the overall 548 00:58:10.090 --> 00:58:21.250 Thomas Howell: application way better, and I think it would be nice to get like we used to have a very loud cheerleader right loud, really poor choice of words. 549 00:58:21.670 --> 00:58:22.380 Thomas Howell: Oh. 550 00:58:22.580 --> 00:58:33.100 Thomas Howell: oh, my gosh! She used to work for Acquia. Web check. Yeah, Webch, when Webchik was on the team and at the cons. She was really talking up our mission. 551 00:58:33.730 --> 00:58:47.630 Thomas Howell: And it's why I'm here is because of Webchik, and I feel like we should consider, maybe in 2025, if we can do anything in that domain to increase that visibility. And I'm gonna stop now. But thank you. 552 00:58:48.550 --> 00:58:53.550 Benji Fisher: Yeah. So I think it's pretty easy to arrange above 553 00:58:53.950 --> 00:58:55.460 Benji Fisher: and 554 00:58:55.850 --> 00:59:15.579 Thomas Howell: and it's harder to get a an actual presentation, because that has to be vetted and accepted. Yes, very hard. I've tried before, but it's it's more I would want to try and go that route first, because boss are extremely hit or miss, and if you're trying to get visibility. 555 00:59:15.850 --> 00:59:22.050 Thomas Howell: Webchik was almost always giving one or 2 presentations, and so 556 00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:36.129 Thomas Howell: the audience is at least an order of magnitude larger. So that's why I'm just thinking like putting it out there for us to consider in 2025 or later. Okay, and it's also not too late for drupalcon. You're up. Go ahead, Ralph. 557 00:59:36.730 --> 00:59:43.300 Ralf Koller: Just one brief question about the issue I've linked for today's meeting as well. 558 00:59:43.620 --> 00:59:48.190 Ralf Koller: It's about an issue that is already. I'm committed to the car. 559 00:59:48.250 --> 00:59:51.469 Ralf Koller: but quite one already. 560 00:59:51.630 --> 01:00:02.849 Ralf Koller: Ask if one of the issues, if it would make sense to bring it through the ux folks, and my question is just the following, the link is here, and if you take a look at the following. 561 01:00:04.220 --> 01:00:17.810 Ralf Koller: image. would it make sense just to comment on the issue. that we take a look at one of the next meetings, and to just create a follow-up issue about the wording 562 01:00:18.850 --> 01:00:24.379 Ralf Koller: and leave the code as is for now in the issue, since it's in any way 563 01:00:25.260 --> 01:00:30.479 Ralf Koller: at the moment, it's just back to needs work, because release notes should be added. 564 01:00:30.520 --> 01:00:37.120 Benji Fisher: okay, yeah. We could certainly talk about that next week. Offer. Go ahead. 565 01:00:37.980 --> 01:00:44.350 Ofer Shaal: I was in Florida Drupal camp, and I spoke with team, Doyle, as you mentioned. 566 01:00:44.450 --> 01:00:57.249 Ofer Shaal: if we, for we have Webch cheering for that, and and bring these ideas. Maybe he's the head of a triple association. He might be open to help in other ways to bring more visibility. 567 01:00:57.440 --> 01:01:02.019 Ofer Shaal: Because I do think how much it helps drupal project doesn't. 568 01:01:02.560 --> 01:01:06.739 Ofer Shaal: So maybe contacting him directly to find other ways. 569 01:01:07.910 --> 01:01:12.129 Benji Fisher: Okay? And we are running out of our 5 min. But go ahead, Aaron. 570 01:01:12.450 --> 01:01:20.490 Aaron McHale: Yeah, just to say, like, I must not hear today about she mentioned, because I'm both hard. Ever at the last triple called Europe, and she mentioned that 571 01:01:20.520 --> 01:01:31.820 Aaron McHale: compared to that year compared to previous issues. There she saw a lot more like Ux. Related content related presentations. So I think there's like an upward trajectory 572 01:01:31.860 --> 01:01:36.720 Aaron McHale: and definitely at least interest in the European side. So II think 573 01:01:36.820 --> 01:01:48.580 Aaron McHale: III think it would be a really great idea to present in some form like that, and something I've thought about a little bit. And 574 01:01:48.770 --> 01:01:52.829 Aaron McHale: yeah, it's it's always helpful if it's like, you know what 575 01:01:52.940 --> 01:01:58.479 Aaron McHale: something like what we do carries a lot of weight behind it, so I'm sure we wouldn't have a hard time. 576 01:01:58.500 --> 01:02:00.890 Aaron McHale: Convincing to. 577 01:02:01.340 --> 01:02:03.720 Aaron McHale: you know, for that proposal to go through. 578 01:02:05.360 --> 01:02:06.060 Great. 579 01:02:06.450 --> 01:02:17.139 Benji Fisher: Okay? And it is at the end of the hour. Thanks for bringing these up. We. I think it's it's good to have this sort of meta discussion about how how we can 580 01:02:17.390 --> 01:02:20.009 Benji Fisher: improve our visibility, and let's 581 01:02:20.550 --> 01:02:22.129 Benji Fisher: continue to think about that. 582 01:02:23.380 --> 01:02:28.940 Aaron McHale: and I might not be here next week I'll 583 01:02:29.400 --> 01:02:31.290 Benji Fisher: I'll bring that up on slack. 584 01:02:31.970 --> 01:02:37.269 Benji Fisher: Okay, thanks for showing the rest of your conference. Thank you. 585 01:02:37.480 --> 01:02:38.460 Benji Fisher: Take care, everyone. 586 01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:40.580 Thomas Howell: Thanks everyone. Bye.