WEBVTT 93 00:09:54.630 --> 00:09:58.840 Benji Fisher: Welcome. This is the drupal usability meeting for March 20, s, 2024. 94 00:09:59.260 --> 00:10:06.159 Benji Fisher: I'm Benji Fisher, moderating. And also here are Ralph Kohler sharing his screen, and he'll start off the discussion. 95 00:10:06.660 --> 00:10:11.180 Benji Fisher: and Simo Helston Scott and Thomas Howell go ahead, Ralph. 96 00:10:12.810 --> 00:10:15.400 Ralf Koller: 1 s 97 00:10:16.160 --> 00:10:18.280 Ralf Koller: just noticed, either. 98 00:10:19.070 --> 00:10:20.847 Ralf Koller: Close and install. 99 00:10:21.620 --> 00:10:22.430 Ralf Koller: we have 100 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:25.139 Ralf Koller: 3 options available. 101 00:10:30.904 --> 00:10:36.719 Ralf Koller: Apologies. Yeah, we currently let's start off with the one Scott product. 102 00:10:36.870 --> 00:10:41.379 Ralf Koller: It's issue number 3, 4, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3. 103 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:46.320 Ralf Koller: It's enable disable view within view. Edit. Page an issue 104 00:10:46.940 --> 00:10:48.890 Ralf Koller: we've discussed before. 105 00:10:52.070 --> 00:10:53.680 Ralf Koller: in 106 00:10:55.740 --> 00:10:58.839 Ralf Koller: previous usability meeting, and 107 00:10:59.530 --> 00:11:02.629 Ralf Koller: the issue was reviewed and tested by the community. 108 00:11:02.810 --> 00:11:06.850 Ralf Koller: But Alex Pot left a message. 109 00:11:07.514 --> 00:11:34.265 Ralf Koller: And he wrote, I agree, this functionality seems useful. But I wonder if we have a problem with the fact? It automatically automatically applies all the other changes in this list that make immediate changes to the view. Go to the Confirmation, for example, the review, the other things in the list stage that change first, then, you have to press. Save for making changes, I think, immediately disabling or enabling the view from this action. Button breaks the expectation. 110 00:11:35.140 --> 00:11:37.390 Ralf Koller: as I don't see any discussions. 111 00:11:37.400 --> 00:11:41.890 Ralf Koller: Discussion of this usability issue on this issue, setting back to needs through you. 112 00:11:46.332 --> 00:11:49.359 Benji Fisher: Can can you show us what the issue is about? 113 00:11:49.990 --> 00:11:51.669 Ralf Koller: Yep, let's just 114 00:11:55.950 --> 00:11:59.129 Ralf Koller: wanted to apply the patch. 115 00:11:59.620 --> 00:12:01.310 Ralf Koller: but somehow 116 00:12:06.820 --> 00:12:09.100 Ralf Koller: I know it, I know it's working 1 s. 117 00:12:19.382 --> 00:12:21.189 Ralf Koller: Let's go into 118 00:12:21.310 --> 00:12:21.990 Ralf Koller: Nope 119 00:12:24.100 --> 00:12:25.340 Ralf Koller: to structure 120 00:12:25.590 --> 00:12:26.700 Ralf Koller: fuse 121 00:12:27.140 --> 00:12:28.870 Ralf Koller: patches already applied. 122 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:32.979 Ralf Koller: If you go, for example, to the disabled 123 00:12:33.470 --> 00:12:34.360 Ralf Koller: oops. 124 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:40.739 Ralf Koller: then you have the option to enable the view. 125 00:12:42.550 --> 00:12:43.359 Ralf Koller: and safe 126 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:49.339 Ralf Koller: and same for disable the view 127 00:12:50.990 --> 00:12:55.229 Ralf Koller: and save, and that immediate change. And yeah, the error message is still 128 00:12:56.210 --> 00:12:57.429 Ralf Koller: taking place. 129 00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:00.580 Ralf Koller: But that's an unrelated problem. 130 00:13:02.500 --> 00:13:08.330 skaught: You don't actually have to save the display before it becomes enabled. As soon as you click it. It actually enables. 131 00:13:08.610 --> 00:13:09.260 Ralf Koller: Okay. 132 00:13:09.920 --> 00:13:14.859 skaught: Saving the display would save the display that you're editing. But it has. Yeah. So it has no connection to that. 133 00:13:22.420 --> 00:13:30.300 Benji Fisher: Okay. So before this issue, if you want to enable or disable, you can't do it. From this page you have to go back to the overview page. 134 00:13:30.560 --> 00:13:30.855 skaught: Yes. 135 00:13:32.250 --> 00:13:32.970 Benji Fisher: Okay. 136 00:13:33.810 --> 00:13:34.760 Benji Fisher: and. 137 00:13:36.680 --> 00:13:38.990 skaught: Where on the page it's a drop-down link. 138 00:13:39.070 --> 00:13:41.060 skaught: just a standard drop-down link. 139 00:13:41.110 --> 00:13:48.990 skaught: where it instantly enables and disables the view as well in that respect, but of course it's a drop button. Well, no sorry they're both drop buttons I respect. 140 00:13:49.570 --> 00:13:52.869 skaught: But over on the other page, of course, on the list page. It just 141 00:13:52.910 --> 00:13:56.819 skaught: triggers instantly. All of the functions do right. Edit just goes to edit. 142 00:13:56.830 --> 00:13:58.820 skaught: Delete goes to a confirm page. 143 00:13:59.910 --> 00:14:03.349 skaught: So that's actually the same behavior. I think we're actually talking about the same behavior. 144 00:14:05.170 --> 00:14:05.870 Ralf Koller: I agree 145 00:14:21.850 --> 00:14:23.219 Ralf Koller: there. The glossary. Yes. 146 00:14:23.220 --> 00:14:25.309 skaught: I didn't realize this to say this before now. 147 00:14:32.620 --> 00:14:40.040 Benji Fisher: Okay. So the existing functionality is what we're looking at now. And it has the same property that if you enable or disable. 148 00:14:40.470 --> 00:14:42.079 Benji Fisher: it happens immediately. 149 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:46.320 skaught: Yeah. And if you just review delete a view from the list page, you'll get a confirm form. 150 00:14:55.650 --> 00:14:59.913 skaught: So the dropdown is a mix of instant actions and 151 00:15:00.820 --> 00:15:01.900 skaught: modal actions. 152 00:15:01.990 --> 00:15:03.970 skaught: It is a mix of responses. 153 00:15:04.590 --> 00:15:05.150 Benji Fisher: Right? 154 00:15:06.398 --> 00:15:12.330 Benji Fisher: And also the the edit is one option there, and that just goes to a different page. 155 00:15:12.590 --> 00:15:14.000 Benji Fisher: Yep, yeah, yeah, that is it. 156 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:15.750 skaught: Normal, trigger, normal, pitch, trigger. 157 00:15:19.020 --> 00:15:22.210 Benji Fisher: So what then, is the expected behavior 158 00:15:22.750 --> 00:15:26.370 Benji Fisher: if we add this link when you're already editing the view? 159 00:15:29.340 --> 00:15:36.550 Benji Fisher: And I think Alex Pot was saying that it would not only enable or disable it, but also submit any changes on the form. 160 00:15:37.770 --> 00:15:40.420 skaught: No, I don't think he meant to say that 161 00:15:43.350 --> 00:15:48.219 skaught: just that, that it was a different behavior like that. The all of the items on this 162 00:15:49.450 --> 00:15:54.870 skaught: have a form to go to, even in the first one, which is the edit editing the details, the title of the view 163 00:15:55.310 --> 00:15:56.920 skaught: they're they trigger a modal 164 00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:58.070 skaught: in that respect. 165 00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:00.639 skaught: I think that's just what he saw. 166 00:16:01.460 --> 00:16:05.680 Benji Fisher: Okay. So it's just a question of whether it's an immediate action or whether it goes through a confirmation form. 167 00:16:05.980 --> 00:16:06.580 skaught: Yes. 168 00:16:07.550 --> 00:16:09.459 Benji Fisher: Okay. Thomas. 169 00:16:10.530 --> 00:16:23.882 Thomas Howell: To me based on this observation that I'm observing it sounds like alex didn't compare the way, or compare and contrast the way we are right now, and so 170 00:16:24.330 --> 00:16:40.220 Thomas Howell: within the list. It's inconsistent. But if it's consistent between the existing behavior being mixed on the other page. I'm not sure I agree with Alex Pot's conclusion that this is problematic. 171 00:16:41.710 --> 00:16:46.439 Thomas Howell: because you'd want to change it in both places if you were going to change it here. 172 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:49.284 Benji Fisher: So you're saying it's okay to be consistently inconsistent. 173 00:16:49.800 --> 00:17:15.732 Thomas Howell: Yes, I I I that is exactly what I'm saying. It is it? It's better to be consistently inconsistent. Rather than to change the behaviors. Here, however, it is a valid point that within these lists they behave in 2 different ways. I think traditionally what I know of other applications when an action is destructive, such as like deleting something, those like things that have 174 00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:18.530 Thomas Howell: difficult to reverse 175 00:17:18.560 --> 00:17:23.020 Thomas Howell: effects, that that's one of the motivators for having the modal. 176 00:17:23.380 --> 00:17:28.180 Thomas Howell: whereas enable and disable, doesn't necessarily have a destructive effect. 177 00:17:28.349 --> 00:17:31.890 Thomas Howell: and is easily recovered from. 178 00:17:32.260 --> 00:17:48.510 Thomas Howell: And I would put that in quotes, because it can be questionable. If you have a crazy view, you might blow your site up by enabling it, but in theory enabling and disabling a view is is something you can recover from in a way that if you delete a view, you cannot recover from. 179 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:54.730 Ralf Koller: First of all, shares that sentiment. 180 00:17:55.890 --> 00:17:58.599 Ralf Koller: any comment number 53, basically. 181 00:18:00.790 --> 00:18:10.009 Benji Fisher: Right. And and I was also thinking of that point that since it's easy to reverse we don't really need confirmation form for it? 182 00:18:23.790 --> 00:18:25.373 Benji Fisher: Any other thoughts is 183 00:18:26.530 --> 00:18:28.390 Benji Fisher: Scott, what's what's your opinion. 184 00:18:29.730 --> 00:18:34.900 skaught: So. Yeah, no, I I saw beyond. We didn't actually see that the consistency is the same right? 185 00:18:36.080 --> 00:19:05.670 skaught: I I'm happy with the functionality. My only other suggestion is that, and because in order to move it out of this is to move the actual settings onto the edit name, description, modal. So you wanna click on that. You can see that you can. You'll edit the title, the description and the view tag. And that would be the only other place to put a status change that is currently existing in an open modal, and would support the wider operations of a view. The wider control over view that aren't the specific displays. 186 00:19:05.910 --> 00:19:07.510 Benji Fisher: I'm sorry. Where are you suggesting putting this. 187 00:19:07.510 --> 00:19:08.839 skaught: Click on click on the top. 188 00:19:09.060 --> 00:19:11.409 skaught: Top. Item, edit, view, name, description. 189 00:19:12.130 --> 00:19:13.369 skaught: So in here 190 00:19:13.650 --> 00:19:17.219 skaught: this would be the only other place to actually put a status change for a view. 191 00:19:18.740 --> 00:19:27.579 skaught: because the the administrative tags tags description stuff like that that aren't actually relevant to the view. Only get seen on the views list page as that goes. 192 00:19:30.950 --> 00:19:43.430 skaught: But this is still a weird place to for a user to try to figure out if they, if the view was disabled. How can I re-enable a view which was sort of the original problem that a view didn't have the ability view page a user didn't have. 193 00:19:43.450 --> 00:19:54.559 skaught: If you got to a view from a context link you had, and the view is disabled, you'd have no idea that the view was disabled or where to go to re-enable a view that was the original bulk of problems. 194 00:19:55.540 --> 00:19:56.180 Benji Fisher: Right? 195 00:19:57.031 --> 00:20:00.079 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I think I agree with you that 196 00:20:00.310 --> 00:20:03.949 Benji Fisher: that this is sort of the the only place to put it from a 197 00:20:04.790 --> 00:20:06.679 Benji Fisher: scope point of view. But 198 00:20:08.140 --> 00:20:10.940 Benji Fisher: but it's not easily discoverable. So 199 00:20:12.810 --> 00:20:13.590 Benji Fisher: yeah. 200 00:20:16.785 --> 00:20:19.410 Benji Fisher: so do we have consensus that the 201 00:20:19.430 --> 00:20:23.549 Benji Fisher: consistent and consistency is okay, and and we should 202 00:20:25.050 --> 00:20:26.920 Benji Fisher: move it back to our Tbc. 203 00:20:28.929 --> 00:20:32.559 Benji Fisher: I get a thumbs up from Thomas and Ralph. Go ahead. 204 00:20:33.638 --> 00:20:37.309 Ralf Koller: In regards of the consistency, I agree, but 205 00:20:37.870 --> 00:20:42.910 Ralf Koller: I wouldn't move it to RGB. Because the those errors still happen 206 00:20:43.060 --> 00:20:45.100 Ralf Koller: now also on 207 00:20:45.790 --> 00:20:47.290 Ralf Koller: the standard profile. 208 00:20:47.580 --> 00:20:50.960 Ralf Koller: and before I only experienced those with Umami. 209 00:20:51.320 --> 00:20:52.910 Ralf Koller: But I think that 210 00:20:53.370 --> 00:20:54.880 Ralf Koller: be definitely 211 00:20:55.100 --> 00:20:57.640 Ralf Koller: fixed, if possible, before Rtpc. 212 00:20:58.840 --> 00:21:09.116 skaught: I I think it's linked on the side of this ticket or that with the standing ticket that there's other issues from a few years ago. Around this problem it seems to be 213 00:21:09.550 --> 00:21:15.790 skaught: that the view that we're adding is a page that's disabled, and it's trying to find a link to a disabled. 214 00:21:16.170 --> 00:21:17.030 skaught: wrecked. 215 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:19.160 Ralf Koller: Oh, okay. 216 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:23.319 skaught: It's complete. Alright, so so please scroll up to to the related issues. 217 00:21:23.780 --> 00:21:26.059 Ralf Koller: Completely. Okay, one. Sec. 218 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:34.410 skaught: Yeah, these 2 related issues. Those first 2 were the issues I could find that were around this. In the first place. 219 00:21:34.760 --> 00:21:35.860 Ralf Koller: Okay. 220 00:21:35.970 --> 00:21:37.859 Ralf Koller: those I've missed. Oh, then 221 00:21:38.290 --> 00:21:40.230 Ralf Koller: Rpc. Is okay with me as well. 222 00:21:41.410 --> 00:21:44.139 Ralf Koller: Just wanted to note. Not that it goes unnoticed 223 00:21:44.620 --> 00:21:45.850 Ralf Koller: and glossed over 224 00:21:46.100 --> 00:21:48.190 Ralf Koller: those errors, but if it's already. 225 00:21:48.190 --> 00:21:51.020 skaught: To be able. Yeah, it seems to be an exception on the on the road. 226 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:52.130 skaught: Okay. 227 00:21:52.250 --> 00:21:54.958 skaught: I can't find anything about it, and I couldn't 228 00:21:55.270 --> 00:21:58.289 skaught: I couldn't debug any more directly, miss. At this point. 229 00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:00.550 Ralf Koller: Okay. 230 00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:06.839 Ralf Koller: that's it. 231 00:22:06.840 --> 00:22:08.419 Benji Fisher: Any other comments on this issue. 232 00:22:13.690 --> 00:22:14.630 Benji Fisher: Okay, 233 00:22:16.090 --> 00:22:18.479 Benji Fisher: And who wants to leave comment 234 00:22:18.540 --> 00:22:19.599 Benji Fisher: on the issue? 235 00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:23.799 Benji Fisher: Scott, do you want to give a report on our discussion. 236 00:22:24.020 --> 00:22:24.630 skaught: Sure. 237 00:22:25.070 --> 00:22:26.109 Benji Fisher: Okay. Thank you. 238 00:22:26.620 --> 00:22:27.170 skaught: Thanks. 239 00:22:32.340 --> 00:22:33.050 Benji Fisher: Great. 240 00:22:35.380 --> 00:22:40.209 Benji Fisher: yeah. And I'll ask if there are other issues. I know Ralph has at least one that he's prepared 241 00:22:40.300 --> 00:22:41.310 Benji Fisher: anyone else. 242 00:22:44.036 --> 00:22:46.530 Benji Fisher: So go ahead, Ralph. What's this one. 243 00:22:47.510 --> 00:22:58.710 Ralf Koller: Okay, the next one is issue number 2, 8, 4, 5, 1, 4, 4, user count reference, unpublished content even when they have access to it. 244 00:23:01.060 --> 00:23:03.020 Ralf Koller: second, I just have to 245 00:23:03.130 --> 00:23:04.299 Ralf Koller: pretty much separate 246 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:06.320 Ralf Koller: window. 247 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:09.440 Ralf Koller: problems. The following 248 00:23:10.135 --> 00:23:14.599 Ralf Koller: steps to reproduce in the issue were the following, you have 249 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:17.429 Ralf Koller: to create, to content types. 250 00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:19.199 Ralf Koller: Content. Type a 251 00:23:20.165 --> 00:23:21.940 Ralf Koller: if you go under edit 252 00:23:22.050 --> 00:23:26.879 Ralf Koller: and publishing options, default, option published is unticked. 253 00:23:27.910 --> 00:23:28.980 Ralf Koller: then 254 00:23:33.370 --> 00:23:34.500 Ralf Koller: option 255 00:23:34.940 --> 00:23:36.890 Ralf Koller: content type fee. 256 00:23:36.910 --> 00:23:38.430 Ralf Koller: If you go into edit. 257 00:23:38.580 --> 00:23:40.559 Ralf Koller: that one is published. 258 00:23:42.380 --> 00:23:48.480 Ralf Koller: you have to create an additional entity reference. Field referencing content type, a 259 00:23:51.470 --> 00:23:54.140 Ralf Koller: choose autocomplete, widget, inform display. 260 00:23:58.870 --> 00:24:01.080 Ralf Koller: Autocomplete is selected. 261 00:24:01.180 --> 00:24:03.663 Ralf Koller: Then you have to create 262 00:24:09.957 --> 00:24:11.599 Ralf Koller: Just 1 s. 263 00:24:13.550 --> 00:24:17.060 Benji Fisher: A published node and an unpublished note of type. A. 264 00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:21.289 Ralf Koller: Have to create a user 265 00:24:21.320 --> 00:24:22.690 Ralf Koller: called test. 266 00:24:25.870 --> 00:24:28.020 Ralf Koller: that created user. 267 00:24:31.730 --> 00:24:34.670 Ralf Koller: edit, I've set to content editor. 268 00:24:34.730 --> 00:24:45.449 Ralf Koller: And the permissions that are needed is to view, own unpublished content and to create content type A and B, and to add into your own 269 00:24:45.810 --> 00:24:49.710 Ralf Koller: content type A and B, and then log in as a user. 270 00:24:51.500 --> 00:24:55.219 Ralf Koller: I've already created content type a 271 00:24:56.020 --> 00:24:58.890 Ralf Koller: called a test which is unpublished. 272 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:02.909 Ralf Koller: as you can see. And if I try now 273 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:04.080 Ralf Koller: to 274 00:25:04.370 --> 00:25:05.520 Ralf Koller: create 275 00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:08.039 Ralf Koller: a note of content. Type B 276 00:25:09.140 --> 00:25:11.440 Ralf Koller: B at oops it is. 277 00:25:14.930 --> 00:25:16.850 Ralf Koller: and try to reference 278 00:25:17.520 --> 00:25:18.370 Ralf Koller: a 279 00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:19.840 Ralf Koller: test. 280 00:25:22.250 --> 00:25:23.530 Ralf Koller: It's not found. 281 00:25:23.540 --> 00:25:24.640 Ralf Koller: If you're safe. 282 00:25:25.530 --> 00:25:29.079 Ralf Koller: there are no content. Items matching a test 283 00:25:29.120 --> 00:25:35.970 Ralf Koller: same, for if I go one step further, I just have to look up the id again. 284 00:25:36.710 --> 00:25:39.560 Ralf Koller: 21 285 00:25:40.670 --> 00:25:42.850 Ralf Koller: parentheses 21 286 00:25:43.350 --> 00:25:44.719 Ralf Koller: try to save again. 287 00:25:45.810 --> 00:25:50.010 Ralf Koller: You get this entity, node 21 cannot be referenced. 288 00:25:52.800 --> 00:25:56.259 Ralf Koller: 1 s. Now I'll add the 289 00:25:56.740 --> 00:25:58.690 Ralf Koller: patch again. 290 00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:03.709 Benji Fisher: But while you're adding the patch, let me just mention 291 00:26:03.800 --> 00:26:07.050 Benji Fisher: that I don't think entering the 292 00:26:07.230 --> 00:26:09.400 Benji Fisher: note id in parentheses 293 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:13.009 Benji Fisher: manually works, and it's a 294 00:26:13.710 --> 00:26:20.040 Benji Fisher: frequent annoyance for me. On drupal.org issues, which is, of course, 777. 295 00:26:20.070 --> 00:26:28.470 Benji Fisher: But I I know the the note id of the issue that I'm adding as a related or parent, or whatever issue. 296 00:26:29.050 --> 00:26:31.410 Benji Fisher: and I can paste that into the 297 00:26:32.100 --> 00:26:36.310 Benji Fisher: lookup field. But then it takes several seconds for it to do the lookup. 298 00:26:36.730 --> 00:26:41.870 Benji Fisher: and I I kind of wish there were an easier way. If you already know the Id to just 299 00:26:42.450 --> 00:26:43.410 Benji Fisher: enter it. 300 00:26:50.250 --> 00:26:51.290 Ralf Koller: Accounts 301 00:26:53.830 --> 00:26:56.379 Ralf Koller: think, where was the setting? 302 00:26:57.573 --> 00:26:59.380 Ralf Koller: I suppose. 303 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:08.549 Ralf Koller: Yeah, there's the create reference entities if they don't already. 304 00:27:10.600 --> 00:27:16.590 Ralf Koller: that was the setting underneath include unpublished entities. The user has access to view 305 00:27:17.340 --> 00:27:18.730 Ralf Koller: is the 306 00:27:19.890 --> 00:27:21.070 Ralf Koller: label 307 00:27:21.330 --> 00:27:22.860 Ralf Koller: we're going with right now. 308 00:27:22.860 --> 00:27:25.933 Benji Fisher: This is with the patch. That's that's the new option we're we're getting. 309 00:27:26.170 --> 00:27:27.309 Ralf Koller: Yep, yep, yep, yep. 310 00:27:31.120 --> 00:27:32.730 Ralf Koller: just create a new one. 311 00:27:34.210 --> 00:27:35.260 Ralf Koller: Hit. S, 312 00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:40.039 Ralf Koller: yeah. And now already, if I type just a 313 00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:41.080 Ralf Koller: I give 314 00:27:42.700 --> 00:27:43.680 Ralf Koller: preview 315 00:27:45.520 --> 00:27:47.030 Ralf Koller: save and it works. 316 00:27:50.270 --> 00:27:51.090 Ralf Koller: So I think. 317 00:27:51.090 --> 00:27:56.019 Benji Fisher: If you were to view this page as an anonymous user, you presumably would not be able to see. 318 00:27:57.540 --> 00:27:59.870 Ralf Koller: 1 Si go to content. 319 00:28:00.990 --> 00:28:03.550 Ralf Koller: Yeah, that's one of the details. 320 00:28:04.290 --> 00:28:05.569 Ralf Koller: I consider 321 00:28:05.900 --> 00:28:07.040 Ralf Koller: problematic. 322 00:28:07.804 --> 00:28:11.899 Ralf Koller: As you can see. B got published the status 323 00:28:11.980 --> 00:28:14.889 Ralf Koller: while A is still unpublished, and if you go onto that 324 00:28:16.610 --> 00:28:18.620 Ralf Koller: It still references a 325 00:28:21.780 --> 00:28:23.970 Ralf Koller: which is still unpublished, and 326 00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:26.250 Ralf Koller: this 327 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:28.080 Ralf Koller: no 328 00:28:28.370 --> 00:28:30.529 Ralf Koller: note about the fact. 329 00:28:31.670 --> 00:28:34.100 Ralf Koller: either on when you're 330 00:28:34.180 --> 00:28:38.260 Ralf Koller: adding basically that note as a reference. 331 00:28:38.540 --> 00:28:41.160 Ralf Koller: it's same as when you publish 332 00:28:43.001 --> 00:28:45.110 Ralf Koller: give note of content. Type B. 333 00:28:45.330 --> 00:28:49.689 Benji Fisher: But but could you visit the B page as an anonymous user? 334 00:28:49.890 --> 00:28:52.250 Ralf Koller: Yeah, 1 s I 335 00:28:52.740 --> 00:28:54.380 Ralf Koller: open a new one. 336 00:29:01.150 --> 00:29:03.449 Ralf Koller: Yeah, they're the they are. The 337 00:29:03.610 --> 00:29:05.110 Ralf Koller: reference isn't shown. 338 00:29:07.630 --> 00:29:09.000 Ralf Koller: So basically. 339 00:29:09.530 --> 00:29:12.249 Ralf Koller: an important context is missing that way. 340 00:29:16.970 --> 00:29:19.099 Ralf Koller: because a reference is set for a reason. 341 00:29:23.815 --> 00:29:24.110 Benji Fisher: Huh! 342 00:29:30.130 --> 00:29:38.469 Benji Fisher: So first, any questions, anyone need clarification about what the problem is, and then and what the solution is. 343 00:29:43.270 --> 00:29:48.349 Benji Fisher: Okay, any comments on whether it's a good solution. Whether this is big 344 00:29:48.700 --> 00:29:50.970 Benji Fisher: expected, or unexpected behavior. 345 00:29:53.030 --> 00:29:54.570 skaught: It seems like it's fine 346 00:29:55.510 --> 00:29:57.140 skaught: right to go in 347 00:29:57.200 --> 00:29:59.220 skaught: want to reference a piece of content. 348 00:30:00.300 --> 00:30:02.920 skaught: It creates it, it's creating it. Sorry. Is that the same 349 00:30:03.330 --> 00:30:10.049 skaught: I guess I confuse about which ticket is that it doesn't have access to it, or that it created the unpublished content as well. 350 00:30:14.300 --> 00:30:15.889 Benji Fisher: It was not creating the 351 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:18.400 Benji Fisher: yeah, the content. 352 00:30:19.730 --> 00:30:21.920 Benji Fisher: Ralph briefly checked that. 353 00:30:22.380 --> 00:30:25.480 Benji Fisher: That off on on the configuration form. But 354 00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:29.410 Benji Fisher: but then, remember, that was the other checkbox that he wanted to look at. 355 00:30:29.410 --> 00:30:29.950 skaught: Okay. 356 00:30:33.893 --> 00:30:39.720 Benji Fisher: Is. Is this only a problem for the auto complete field? If you have a different form, Widget 357 00:30:41.260 --> 00:30:42.939 Benji Fisher: do you already? 358 00:30:44.780 --> 00:30:47.100 Benji Fisher: Can you already add unpublished content. 359 00:30:48.070 --> 00:30:49.090 Ralf Koller: I am not sure. 360 00:30:56.930 --> 00:30:57.620 Benji Fisher: tight. 361 00:30:57.750 --> 00:30:58.590 Benji Fisher: Yes. 362 00:30:59.780 --> 00:31:00.819 Ralf Koller: Will I test. 363 00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:05.270 Benji Fisher: Yeah, let's let's just change the 364 00:31:05.780 --> 00:31:07.000 Benji Fisher: form display. 365 00:31:09.770 --> 00:31:11.559 Ralf Koller: Or content type 366 00:31:12.120 --> 00:31:12.840 Ralf Koller: beat. 367 00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:17.400 Ralf Koller: Hmm! 368 00:31:21.870 --> 00:31:22.960 Ralf Koller: Change to what. 369 00:31:25.770 --> 00:31:27.180 Benji Fisher: Oh, good question. 370 00:31:29.990 --> 00:31:32.040 Benji Fisher: say, check boxes. 371 00:31:37.110 --> 00:31:38.540 Ralf Koller: Let's create. 372 00:31:47.530 --> 00:31:48.360 Ralf Koller: Yeah. And it. 373 00:31:48.360 --> 00:31:49.460 Benji Fisher: It shows up. 374 00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:52.810 Benji Fisher: So 375 00:31:56.330 --> 00:31:58.960 Benji Fisher: I assume that that 376 00:31:59.740 --> 00:32:02.869 Benji Fisher: the new option only affects the auto complete 377 00:32:03.300 --> 00:32:04.970 Benji Fisher: widget. So 378 00:32:05.860 --> 00:32:07.579 Benji Fisher: it looks like 379 00:32:09.188 --> 00:32:14.210 Benji Fisher: we already have the option to reference unpublished content. 380 00:32:17.390 --> 00:32:18.420 Ralf Koller: 1 s 381 00:32:23.780 --> 00:32:24.610 Ralf Koller: do attach. 382 00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:30.468 Ralf Koller: or should I just 383 00:32:31.320 --> 00:32:32.969 Ralf Koller: ignore the patch again. 384 00:32:33.270 --> 00:32:35.579 Ralf Koller: and that we are able to compare again? 385 00:32:37.170 --> 00:32:38.409 Ralf Koller: Oh, yeah, that okay. 386 00:32:38.410 --> 00:32:43.979 Benji Fisher: A good test it'll it'll take a few seconds. But while you're doing that we can let Thomas say what he wants to say. 387 00:32:46.590 --> 00:32:48.420 Thomas Howell: I'm wondering if 388 00:32:49.520 --> 00:32:50.570 Thomas Howell: it. 389 00:32:50.890 --> 00:32:54.030 Thomas Howell: the issue is how auto complete. 390 00:32:55.061 --> 00:33:18.910 Thomas Howell: Knows what nodes it can access. It's possible that the auto complete. Widget just normally doesn't have access to search through unpublished nodes. And that's why it doesn't make it visible. So it might be. Couldn't it be a technical bug within the expected behavior for auto complete cause I'm I'm imagining a website that could have 391 00:33:20.470 --> 00:33:28.159 Thomas Howell: hundreds of temporary articles that create get created. And maybe you unpublish batch unpublish a bunch of them. And 392 00:33:28.630 --> 00:33:39.600 Thomas Howell: I'm just wondering if how they built auto complete. Just automatically filters out everything that's unpublished. Assuming that you don't wanna search through it? 393 00:33:41.540 --> 00:33:43.880 Thomas Howell: And could we test that in some way. 394 00:33:49.170 --> 00:33:53.180 Benji Fisher: Yeah. And then why should auto complete be different from the other 395 00:33:53.290 --> 00:33:54.609 Benji Fisher: form? Widgets. 396 00:33:55.450 --> 00:34:08.360 Thomas Howell: I'm not arguing for which behavior is right. I don't know like I can see like I don't know why anyone in their right mind with any significant amount of content. Would wanna use radio buttons. 397 00:34:09.143 --> 00:34:10.710 Benji Fisher: For reference. 398 00:34:14.290 --> 00:34:15.090 Thomas Howell: Like. 399 00:34:15.090 --> 00:34:28.760 skaught: Problem with the Ajax right? The Ajax feature is kind of weird. And when it's adding in the note, id, that's the thing that confuses people to right like it automatically throws in a note Id instead of a title. And then people don't even know why the note id is there. 400 00:34:29.750 --> 00:34:30.910 skaught: But that's there. 401 00:34:31.060 --> 00:34:32.189 skaught: Current problem, right? 402 00:34:32.710 --> 00:34:37.300 skaught: I think it's published here. Yes, we'd have to took it. I don't. I haven't looked at the patch. That would be funny. 403 00:34:41.620 --> 00:34:47.949 skaught: Would an autocomplete field remove an unpublished node in a workflow situation, if it was suddenly unpublished 404 00:34:48.020 --> 00:34:51.080 skaught: in a referenced field, and it was auto, complete. 405 00:34:51.300 --> 00:34:52.050 Thomas Howell: Couldn't. 406 00:34:53.090 --> 00:34:56.139 Benji Fisher: I I'm I'm sorry. I'm not sure what you hear what you mean. 407 00:34:57.290 --> 00:35:03.319 skaught: Is auto complete, not referencing, unpublished nodes because they would get removed to somebody edited the page 408 00:35:05.060 --> 00:35:11.230 skaught: right? Or if this was a multi field. Does this show multiple fields? Or is this? This isn't a comma separated list, right? 409 00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:13.219 skaught: If it's a multi field. 410 00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:19.400 Benji Fisher: I think this is configured to have just one value. That's why we had radio buttons rather than check boxes. 411 00:35:19.820 --> 00:35:20.410 skaught: Hmm 412 00:35:23.430 --> 00:35:25.529 skaught: should look at a multi field setting, too. 413 00:35:25.590 --> 00:35:26.600 skaught: just in case. 414 00:35:35.520 --> 00:35:37.230 Ralf Koller: I just strange right now 415 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:39.819 Ralf Koller: I've reverted the patch. 416 00:35:42.930 --> 00:35:45.310 Ralf Koller: but it's still shown. 417 00:35:48.540 --> 00:35:49.500 Benji Fisher: Their caches. 418 00:35:50.750 --> 00:35:52.270 Ralf Koller: I have cleared the cache. 419 00:35:52.870 --> 00:35:55.500 Benji Fisher: And you've reverted the patch, and it's still showing. 420 00:35:56.330 --> 00:35:57.100 Ralf Koller: Yep. 421 00:36:03.100 --> 00:36:06.170 Ralf Koller: Only the patch for Scott's issue 422 00:36:06.340 --> 00:36:08.780 Ralf Koller: is applied. The others got ignored. 423 00:36:13.310 --> 00:36:16.409 Ralf Koller: I've cleared caches now for the third time. 424 00:36:17.120 --> 00:36:18.899 Ralf Koller: and, as you can see, oops. 425 00:36:25.340 --> 00:36:25.930 Benji Fisher: That's. 426 00:36:25.930 --> 00:36:27.310 Ralf Koller: Because sure the 427 00:36:27.620 --> 00:36:31.139 Ralf Koller: if I go in here on the reference edit. 428 00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:33.380 Ralf Koller: that checkbox 429 00:36:33.650 --> 00:36:35.080 Ralf Koller: got removed. 430 00:36:41.040 --> 00:36:43.790 Ralf Koller: preference is auto complete. But if I go in here 431 00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:45.900 Ralf Koller: on the B 432 00:36:47.620 --> 00:36:48.570 Ralf Koller: test 433 00:36:50.030 --> 00:36:50.840 Ralf Koller: paint 434 00:36:55.260 --> 00:36:56.490 Ralf Koller: all the completion works. 435 00:36:57.070 --> 00:36:58.319 Ralf Koller: No idea why 436 00:37:41.020 --> 00:37:42.590 Ralf Koller: my real client. 437 00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:03.940 Ralf Koller: the cache 438 00:38:07.200 --> 00:38:08.170 Ralf Koller: reload. 439 00:38:08.710 --> 00:38:10.300 Ralf Koller: Yeah. Check boxes here again 440 00:38:45.190 --> 00:38:47.670 Ralf Koller: can quickly do the share. 441 00:38:48.940 --> 00:38:50.600 Ralf Koller: forgot, also 442 00:38:53.080 --> 00:38:54.100 Ralf Koller: provide 443 00:38:58.240 --> 00:38:59.300 Ralf Koller: a link. 444 00:39:03.320 --> 00:39:05.559 Ralf Koller: test, test, or admin, admin. 445 00:39:55.450 --> 00:39:58.830 Benji Fisher: I'm not sure why it's behaving that way. Maybe it's a bug. 446 00:40:00.950 --> 00:40:04.149 Benji Fisher: But what do we think? Should 447 00:40:05.890 --> 00:40:07.190 Benji Fisher: should we just. 448 00:40:07.680 --> 00:40:08.760 skaught: In jets. 449 00:40:09.380 --> 00:40:11.310 skaught: Are you testing as user? One? Sorry. 450 00:40:14.058 --> 00:40:16.510 Ralf Koller: None of those has user one. 451 00:40:18.260 --> 00:40:22.319 Ralf Koller: Oh, oh, wait 1 s. Oh, yeah. Our caller is user one 452 00:40:22.870 --> 00:40:24.900 Ralf Koller: 1 Si 453 00:40:25.100 --> 00:40:26.400 Ralf Koller: sign out 454 00:40:27.510 --> 00:40:28.469 Ralf Koller: login account 455 00:40:31.950 --> 00:40:33.150 Ralf Koller: admin, admin. 456 00:40:35.980 --> 00:40:38.899 Benji Fisher: You're confusing me, Ralph admin, is user 2. 457 00:40:41.160 --> 00:40:44.706 Ralf Koller: I have a script for setting up 458 00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:49.189 Ralf Koller: sites, and there I've 459 00:40:49.530 --> 00:40:52.330 Ralf Koller: have the site install running with. Our caller has 460 00:40:52.590 --> 00:40:54.050 Ralf Koller: the initial user. 461 00:40:54.280 --> 00:41:00.780 skaught: In the old code. In the original code the user is looking for. If user has access to bypass note access 462 00:41:01.020 --> 00:41:02.550 skaught: and the new work 463 00:41:04.010 --> 00:41:07.149 skaught: is just changing how it gets the condition. 464 00:41:07.730 --> 00:41:11.449 skaught: So use as an editor, you'd have bypass, known access 465 00:41:11.640 --> 00:41:13.060 skaught: and be able to see all notes. 466 00:41:15.670 --> 00:41:17.749 Benji Fisher: Question I want to ask is this. 467 00:41:19.550 --> 00:41:21.900 Benji Fisher: Should we just unconditionally 468 00:41:21.940 --> 00:41:23.060 Benji Fisher: change it 469 00:41:23.680 --> 00:41:25.150 Benji Fisher: and show 470 00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:28.030 Benji Fisher: any node that the user has access to? 471 00:41:28.784 --> 00:41:35.170 Benji Fisher: I think the argument for that is that it would make it consistent with the other form widgets 472 00:41:39.060 --> 00:41:49.140 Benji Fisher: or should we provide this option the way the current patch works, and if we do provide this option for the auto complete widget, maybe we should also provide for the other widgets. 473 00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:54.169 Benji Fisher: Thomas, go ahead. 474 00:41:55.870 --> 00:41:57.570 Thomas Howell: To me this would. 475 00:41:57.740 --> 00:42:07.119 Thomas Howell: The patch seems to break my expectations because someone could create a relationship between A and B, 476 00:42:07.990 --> 00:42:10.750 Thomas Howell: and they are both published today. 477 00:42:10.950 --> 00:42:19.050 Thomas Howell: it saves them in their current state with that relationship, and then, if one of those became unpublished later. 478 00:42:20.120 --> 00:42:29.929 Thomas Howell: you would no longer have access to recreate that same relationship. So I would expect that 479 00:42:30.220 --> 00:42:36.500 Thomas Howell: if you wanted to break the rule that would be a contrib type module. I'm not saying that there's not a reason to do it. 480 00:42:37.130 --> 00:42:48.169 Thomas Howell: Because of how much content could be there. But I would respect the fact that the way Node save works, and how you save the configuration of each node 481 00:42:48.260 --> 00:42:54.480 Thomas Howell: when you hit, save that it shouldn't care if something is published or unpublished 482 00:42:54.600 --> 00:42:56.530 Thomas Howell: in the default behavior. 483 00:42:59.935 --> 00:43:25.450 Thomas Howell: Simply because, like you don't. Something that always bothers me is if I edit a node down the line. So I, if A is unpublished as A and B are published, or A is published. I create BI create a relationship with A, I save B. So both are published. Both are saved in existing nodes. Then A is unpublished. If I go back to edit B, 484 00:43:26.080 --> 00:43:29.359 Thomas Howell: if the behavior is to exclude unpublished things. 485 00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:44.499 Thomas Howell: it means that I can't get back to the state the moment I press edit. So maybe I wanna keep that because I have a complex workflow where things may come in and out of being published. So looks like there's lots of comments. I'm gonna stop talking. 486 00:43:48.633 --> 00:43:50.059 Benji Fisher: Yes, Ralph. 487 00:43:50.250 --> 00:43:51.519 Ralf Koller: When our team was first. 488 00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:52.979 Benji Fisher: Okay, Sema 489 00:44:00.500 --> 00:44:03.130 Benji Fisher: email, you're not muted. But I don't hear anything. 490 00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:11.939 Simo Hellsten: Probably without. 491 00:44:13.230 --> 00:44:15.630 Simo Hellsten: Can you hear me now? Yes. 492 00:44:16.430 --> 00:44:18.740 Simo Hellsten: yeah. So I removed the headphones. 493 00:44:19.200 --> 00:44:21.050 Simo Hellsten: Be something wrong here. 494 00:44:21.070 --> 00:44:22.690 Simo Hellsten: So I was. 495 00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:28.929 Simo Hellsten: you probably didn't hear my other comments before that. So 496 00:44:29.100 --> 00:44:30.080 Simo Hellsten: on. A 497 00:44:31.050 --> 00:44:32.290 Simo Hellsten: was thinking that 498 00:44:32.850 --> 00:44:36.190 Simo Hellsten: it should have that same default behavior 499 00:44:36.430 --> 00:44:37.790 Simo Hellsten: than the others. 500 00:44:37.910 --> 00:44:39.360 Simo Hellsten: and I'm thinking that 501 00:44:39.620 --> 00:44:41.220 Simo Hellsten: if there is a patch. 502 00:44:41.660 --> 00:44:44.410 Simo Hellsten: What? What like? How does that patch 503 00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:45.640 Simo Hellsten: kind of a 504 00:44:47.170 --> 00:44:48.840 Simo Hellsten: compared to 505 00:44:48.940 --> 00:44:50.310 Simo Hellsten: just creating. 506 00:44:50.330 --> 00:44:56.610 Simo Hellsten: creating an entity reference view and using that. So if we want to 507 00:44:57.240 --> 00:45:17.910 Simo Hellsten: use something else than this default. That should be same for all all widgets, I think. What what is the reason not to use entity, reference view, but to have an additional option for something that is maybe not so common or is common. So I think. 508 00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:19.260 Simo Hellsten: yeah. 509 00:45:19.710 --> 00:45:21.960 Simo Hellsten: so I think this might be 510 00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:27.569 Simo Hellsten: something that could be more a contra issue, contribute module than 511 00:45:27.750 --> 00:45:29.059 Simo Hellsten: and basic. 512 00:45:29.370 --> 00:45:35.819 Simo Hellsten: I think, would be to have same default for everything, and then, using entity reference views 513 00:45:36.150 --> 00:45:41.920 Simo Hellsten: for custom cases. So I don't. Then this introduces a third option. 514 00:45:44.300 --> 00:45:47.859 Benji Fisher: Yeah, in. In fact, there's a close relationship, because 515 00:45:48.160 --> 00:45:53.340 Benji Fisher: one of the options is to use a view to select 516 00:45:53.660 --> 00:45:54.710 Benji Fisher: things 517 00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:57.080 Benji Fisher: rather as as a form widget. 518 00:45:58.750 --> 00:45:59.700 Benji Fisher: So 519 00:46:00.010 --> 00:46:03.690 Benji Fisher: so certainly you, if you choose that option you, you have 520 00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:09.079 Benji Fisher: the ability to choose a view that does or does not filter on unpublished. 521 00:46:10.990 --> 00:46:12.549 Benji Fisher: Go ahead, Ralph. 522 00:46:18.260 --> 00:46:18.970 Ralf Koller: I'm 523 00:46:20.270 --> 00:46:22.460 Ralf Koller: not sure Thomas is. 524 00:46:22.660 --> 00:46:25.279 Ralf Koller: Points were made. Basically, that's about 525 00:46:26.720 --> 00:46:33.969 Ralf Koller: both cases are published. And then at a later point, being unpublished. But the case here, that is added, is basically 526 00:46:35.120 --> 00:46:36.150 Ralf Koller: to make 527 00:46:36.770 --> 00:46:39.890 Ralf Koller: at the moment unpublished entities available 528 00:46:40.330 --> 00:46:41.080 Ralf Koller: to 529 00:46:41.380 --> 00:46:43.129 Ralf Koller: a second one, that is. 530 00:46:43.580 --> 00:46:45.710 Ralf Koller: in the process of being published 531 00:46:46.411 --> 00:46:51.829 Ralf Koller: to reference it, and it's a slightly different case then. 532 00:46:52.750 --> 00:46:54.350 Ralf Koller: But yeah, still. 533 00:46:54.930 --> 00:46:58.999 Ralf Koller: I'm not sure for me personally, as I already said, it's confusing. 534 00:46:59.070 --> 00:47:01.039 Ralf Koller: and also from a 535 00:47:04.180 --> 00:47:05.970 Ralf Koller: how I was it called 536 00:47:07.930 --> 00:47:14.160 Ralf Koller: from a reference perspective for a referential integrity perspective. It's problematic 537 00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:19.549 Ralf Koller: But still, as a user, you never 538 00:47:20.940 --> 00:47:28.220 Ralf Koller: has the context that, for example, A is actually unpublished that you are unaware of 539 00:47:29.900 --> 00:47:34.020 Ralf Koller: as the person who set up the content type. You know that. But 540 00:47:34.290 --> 00:47:35.230 Ralf Koller: if you have 541 00:47:35.610 --> 00:47:41.509 Ralf Koller: separate editors, then doing the actual work, the editorial work, then 542 00:47:41.670 --> 00:47:44.800 Ralf Koller: those not necessarily know that. 543 00:47:45.680 --> 00:47:49.280 Ralf Koller: The note they are referencing is actually not published yet 544 00:47:49.730 --> 00:47:50.480 Ralf Koller: edits. 545 00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.969 Ralf Koller: but could have consequences from editorialist perspective. 546 00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:58.479 Ralf Koller: And yeah, again, also, at a later point. 547 00:47:59.170 --> 00:48:01.500 Ralf Koller: the publishing state is changed. Yeah. 548 00:48:02.930 --> 00:48:04.190 Ralf Koller: it's problematic. 549 00:48:09.610 --> 00:48:10.676 Benji Fisher: Right and 550 00:48:13.420 --> 00:48:16.570 Benji Fisher: you know. So other situations that 551 00:48:16.700 --> 00:48:18.740 Benji Fisher: should be considered. 552 00:48:20.500 --> 00:48:21.949 Benji Fisher: you know. Say 553 00:48:22.240 --> 00:48:23.639 Benji Fisher: we have. 554 00:48:24.287 --> 00:48:27.049 Benji Fisher: A. What? What is it? We have a B 555 00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:30.380 Benji Fisher: content type that references several A's 556 00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:32.639 Simo Hellsten: Front of us. 557 00:48:33.520 --> 00:48:34.570 Benji Fisher: And 558 00:48:35.050 --> 00:48:38.500 Benji Fisher: and then later some of those are unpublished. 559 00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:42.279 Benji Fisher: and then someone goes to edit the B 560 00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:48.920 Simo Hellsten: Because I'm a fan. I don't want to talk back on a little bit much. 561 00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:50.730 Benji Fisher: Simo, can you cut your audio? 562 00:48:52.037 --> 00:48:55.510 Benji Fisher: Someone goes to edit the B, and then suddenly, those 563 00:48:56.020 --> 00:48:59.190 Benji Fisher: those things aren't referenced. What if that 564 00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:02.440 Benji Fisher: content. Editor then saves the page to the 565 00:49:03.130 --> 00:49:05.120 Benji Fisher: references. Get removed. 566 00:49:08.780 --> 00:49:10.290 Benji Fisher: probably this. 567 00:49:11.610 --> 00:49:13.880 Benji Fisher: This is sort of complicated 568 00:49:14.950 --> 00:49:17.455 Benji Fisher: a complicated situation. 569 00:49:20.690 --> 00:49:25.829 Benji Fisher: And Ralph brings up a related issue in in the slack. This is 570 00:49:26.190 --> 00:49:29.300 Benji Fisher: 2, 7, 2, 3, 3, 2, 3. 571 00:49:31.060 --> 00:49:32.300 Benji Fisher: What is that? 572 00:49:34.410 --> 00:49:38.614 Ralf Koller: It's about deleted entities. So basically about 573 00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:41.190 Ralf Koller: preferential integrity. 574 00:49:41.580 --> 00:49:42.180 Benji Fisher: Aha! 575 00:49:54.230 --> 00:49:59.950 Benji Fisher: When that's talking about actually deleting nodes rather than just unpublishing them, and. 576 00:50:00.460 --> 00:50:03.610 Ralf Koller: Yeah. But from a editorial perspective. 577 00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:07.220 Ralf Koller: it's similar. It's not directly 578 00:50:07.490 --> 00:50:09.360 Ralf Koller: identical, but still 579 00:50:12.380 --> 00:50:15.469 Ralf Koller: The front facing article or note 580 00:50:16.190 --> 00:50:19.820 Ralf Koller: a visitor reads is still affected by that. 581 00:50:25.460 --> 00:50:28.330 Ralf Koller: It's related, but not identical. Right. 582 00:50:29.882 --> 00:50:31.410 Benji Fisher: So go ahead, Thomas. 583 00:50:32.650 --> 00:50:36.789 Thomas Howell: I think. To so succinctly sum up what I'm 584 00:50:36.820 --> 00:50:38.169 Thomas Howell: what I believe. 585 00:50:38.580 --> 00:50:40.860 Thomas Howell: I think that any node 586 00:50:42.670 --> 00:50:45.280 Thomas Howell: should be able to have a relationship. 587 00:50:45.630 --> 00:50:46.440 Thomas Howell: If 588 00:50:47.257 --> 00:51:00.619 Thomas Howell: the correct criteria are met with any other node, regardless of publishing state or any other state. So what matters is, do does the author of the node 589 00:51:00.890 --> 00:51:01.760 Thomas Howell: have 590 00:51:02.620 --> 00:51:07.660 Thomas Howell: access rights to access the other node so 591 00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:13.010 Thomas Howell: it. What what matters is just respecting 592 00:51:13.080 --> 00:51:22.299 Thomas Howell: any strict permissions? But visibility is not a strict permission. That's something like, if it's not visible, then 593 00:51:23.690 --> 00:51:26.260 Thomas Howell: we should decide at time of display. 594 00:51:27.045 --> 00:51:28.529 Thomas Howell: Not to show 595 00:51:28.700 --> 00:51:31.020 Thomas Howell: something, and I don't know how to. 596 00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:35.399 Thomas Howell: I'm trying to be really succinct. But it 597 00:51:35.990 --> 00:51:53.559 Thomas Howell: I I'm thinking of a science journal. If I had a science journal that had a website that was a science journal, and I had a biology content type. And I had a physics content type. And I wanted to reference an article that was in the process of being written, but not yet published. 598 00:51:53.610 --> 00:51:56.519 Thomas Howell: I could see that, being a valid use case for a citation. 599 00:51:57.690 --> 00:52:02.229 Benji Fisher: Sure. Add the link now, and when it gets published it'll be available to anyone. 600 00:52:02.500 --> 00:52:03.220 Thomas Howell: Correct. 601 00:52:03.510 --> 00:52:10.850 Thomas Howell: And so in my mind you the concept of having any 2 nodes having a relationship that 602 00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:20.749 Thomas Howell: that has nothing to do with visibility. Visibility should then say, Hey, can I see this thing? And I get that? It's a problem. If the way it's saving it is 603 00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:45.139 Thomas Howell: like it. It may make things more complex at the display ste like when it's going to the display stage. But I I think the relationship doesn't care about a single cause, then the question becomes, Well, what happens if I wanted to have another field? That blocked access because published unpublished is just a special use case. Field. It's it's something that's kind of baked into drupal 604 00:52:45.230 --> 00:52:52.560 Thomas Howell: by default on nodes. But it doesn't do anything different than if I were to put any other binary or categorical 605 00:52:53.060 --> 00:52:55.640 Thomas Howell: field that I wanted to use as a control. 606 00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:56.890 Thomas Howell: and 607 00:52:57.040 --> 00:53:14.970 Thomas Howell: that shouldn't have anything to do with relationships, unless, as as we pointed out, like, you did a great job. Then you use the view, the the view, widget, and you. You use that to then use these like. That's a great place where you would say, Okay, hide or show, publish like you can choose. 608 00:53:15.050 --> 00:53:23.700 Thomas Howell: You can make more robust choices in that use case. But I wouldn't want to bake it in to allow or disallow. I would just ask, do you have permissions? 609 00:53:23.850 --> 00:53:26.320 Thomas Howell: That's important. I don't want to bypass 610 00:53:26.440 --> 00:53:28.810 Thomas Howell: any security implications. 611 00:53:30.140 --> 00:53:32.190 Thomas Howell: Those need to be baked in. 612 00:53:32.290 --> 00:53:40.280 Thomas Howell: But non-security issues like publishing to me that that's more amorphous, and you need to handle it at the display stage stage. 613 00:53:40.580 --> 00:53:45.389 Benji Fisher: I I I think I disagree with that. And and just as a matter of security 614 00:53:45.881 --> 00:53:49.599 Benji Fisher: it's the responsibility of the person building the site to 615 00:53:49.750 --> 00:53:52.130 Benji Fisher: make sure that access works 616 00:53:52.160 --> 00:53:58.180 Benji Fisher: so, and it's also the the privilege of the person building the site to grant or deny access. 617 00:53:58.270 --> 00:53:59.710 Benji Fisher: So if 618 00:53:59.760 --> 00:54:04.750 Benji Fisher: content editors don't have permission to view any unpublished 619 00:54:05.270 --> 00:54:06.190 Benji Fisher: content. 620 00:54:06.500 --> 00:54:13.939 Benji Fisher: then they will not see it on the node edit form, and that's a security issue that they should not be able to see it on the edit form. 621 00:54:14.120 --> 00:54:17.240 Benji Fisher: Otherwise it's an information, disclosure, vulnerability. 622 00:54:17.620 --> 00:54:23.220 Benji Fisher: So it is complicated. But I I think we can't make the decisions for the site builders. 623 00:54:25.660 --> 00:54:26.200 Thomas Howell: And 624 00:54:26.940 --> 00:54:27.550 Benji Fisher: Go ahead! 625 00:54:29.140 --> 00:54:39.400 Thomas Howell: I I mean I I I think we are making that decision regardless. If you, the moment you say they can, or they can't see those things. You're you're 626 00:54:40.140 --> 00:54:44.230 Thomas Howell: making the security disclosure statement around 627 00:54:45.268 --> 00:54:48.540 Thomas Howell: published versus unpublished. I 628 00:54:49.710 --> 00:54:55.730 Thomas Howell: there isn't a security of Scotia around that. Then you are making that decision for people as well. 629 00:54:56.520 --> 00:55:03.049 Benji Fisher: And and security is is determined by access control, and if the site builder doesn't give 630 00:55:03.140 --> 00:55:06.749 Benji Fisher: Content editors permission to view unpublished content. 631 00:55:06.870 --> 00:55:11.019 Benji Fisher: then we have to respect that, and we have to not show it to them. 632 00:55:12.157 --> 00:55:16.329 Benji Fisher: On the the note edit page for another content type. 633 00:55:19.260 --> 00:55:23.799 Thomas Howell: Yeah, I, I yes, we disagree. 634 00:55:25.620 --> 00:55:26.279 Benji Fisher: Ralph. 635 00:55:29.050 --> 00:55:32.330 Ralf Koller: I liked Thomas's point in regards of 636 00:55:33.051 --> 00:55:38.110 Ralf Koller: if the correct criteria is met, no matter of the public state 637 00:55:38.740 --> 00:55:41.710 Ralf Koller: provide the ability to 638 00:55:41.920 --> 00:55:43.700 Ralf Koller: set or define 639 00:55:43.850 --> 00:55:44.990 Ralf Koller: relationships. 640 00:55:45.140 --> 00:55:49.569 Ralf Koller: but I think maybe the easiest way would be 641 00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:53.990 Ralf Koller: at least on if the person who is writing 642 00:55:54.290 --> 00:55:55.650 Ralf Koller: the the 643 00:55:55.700 --> 00:56:01.710 Ralf Koller: post or the creating the note that is referencing. For example, content type a 644 00:56:01.930 --> 00:56:03.659 Ralf Koller: at least on safe. 645 00:56:03.820 --> 00:56:08.200 Ralf Koller: Get some sort of heads up, a confirmation step or 646 00:56:08.340 --> 00:56:11.390 Ralf Koller: something alike, to inform, hey? 647 00:56:12.670 --> 00:56:20.210 Ralf Koller: 3 out of 10 of the references you made are in your posting are not published yet. 648 00:56:21.120 --> 00:56:22.609 Ralf Koller: so the person is 649 00:56:23.020 --> 00:56:25.330 Ralf Koller: aware of that 650 00:56:25.640 --> 00:56:27.100 Ralf Koller: fact. That's 651 00:56:28.130 --> 00:56:30.949 Ralf Koller: from my perspective, would make sense. 652 00:56:33.390 --> 00:56:38.070 Benji Fisher: I think that's a reasonable thing to do. I think it's out of scope for the current issue. 653 00:56:40.020 --> 00:56:41.130 Benji Fisher: and 654 00:56:41.150 --> 00:56:42.970 Benji Fisher: I'm not sure it should be in poor. 655 00:56:43.140 --> 00:56:44.309 Benji Fisher: It's worth discussing. 656 00:56:48.340 --> 00:56:50.040 Benji Fisher: Scott. Go ahead. 657 00:56:52.210 --> 00:56:53.940 skaught: I'm actually looking at the patch 658 00:56:55.030 --> 00:56:57.969 skaught: for the access permissions that it's using. It's 659 00:56:58.190 --> 00:57:17.300 skaught: it still gives kind of a dangerous permission in this patch, because it's now allowing the user to view any published node. And in different projects, you may have different content. Editors who should not have access to different node types under under any circumstance. This now gives them permission for every content type, regardless. 660 00:57:19.370 --> 00:57:23.410 Benji Fisher: Oh, are there permissions in cord to view. 661 00:57:23.740 --> 00:57:24.430 skaught: Put the link. 662 00:57:24.430 --> 00:57:26.530 Benji Fisher: With the granularity of 663 00:57:27.687 --> 00:57:29.030 Benji Fisher: of content. Type. 664 00:57:29.310 --> 00:57:29.980 Benji Fisher: Yeah. 665 00:57:31.020 --> 00:57:31.730 Benji Fisher: yes. 666 00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:41.380 skaught: The routine also has a special condition for users. 0. So should users 0 have access to a reference field. 667 00:57:42.620 --> 00:57:44.660 skaught: which is, of course, a huge use case. 668 00:57:46.740 --> 00:57:55.549 skaught: I think it's blocking user 0 as it goes overall. But it's looking up the permissions of view. Any published content which is any content type. 669 00:58:06.120 --> 00:58:10.800 Benji Fisher: You know. I I'm looking at the permissions for the article content type. 670 00:58:11.360 --> 00:58:15.620 Benji Fisher: and there is a permission to view revisions. But all the others are 671 00:58:16.170 --> 00:58:17.639 Benji Fisher: edit, create 672 00:58:18.090 --> 00:58:19.010 Benji Fisher: delete 673 00:58:21.780 --> 00:58:22.690 Benji Fisher: I. 674 00:58:23.260 --> 00:58:25.509 skaught: Revision is a good point. What if somebody reverts so. 675 00:58:26.270 --> 00:58:28.260 Benji Fisher: Yeah, revisions are 676 00:58:29.310 --> 00:58:30.690 Benji Fisher: are are special. But 677 00:58:31.244 --> 00:58:35.060 Benji Fisher: but there's I don't think there is a permission 678 00:58:35.900 --> 00:58:38.640 Benji Fisher: in drupal core to 679 00:58:39.700 --> 00:58:40.910 Benji Fisher: view 680 00:58:41.570 --> 00:58:43.080 Benji Fisher: basic pages 681 00:58:43.330 --> 00:58:45.800 Benji Fisher: as opposed to permission to view 682 00:58:46.010 --> 00:58:47.260 Benji Fisher: any content. 683 00:58:51.670 --> 00:58:53.349 skaught: Depend on the circumstance of what 684 00:58:53.770 --> 00:58:55.589 skaught: permission was being checked for. Yes. 685 00:58:58.260 --> 00:58:58.969 Benji Fisher: Say again. 686 00:58:59.210 --> 00:59:04.129 skaught: Depend on the circumstance that they were looking at which permission they were actually favoring 687 00:59:05.850 --> 00:59:09.200 skaught: in another. Yeah, we're kind of getting off on the where it's getting rendered to. 688 00:59:10.830 --> 00:59:12.499 Benji Fisher: Okay, I'll go ahead. Thomas. 689 00:59:13.780 --> 00:59:23.089 Thomas Howell: One thing that I wanted to highlight was an experience I had years ago, so I don't know how valid this is to the current state or the patch. 690 00:59:23.210 --> 00:59:25.620 Thomas Howell: but it describes the concern I have 691 00:59:26.060 --> 00:59:26.859 Thomas Howell: is 692 00:59:28.900 --> 00:59:49.790 Thomas Howell: I have had an instance in the past where content would be created and saved. So you have a content type, A, you create it and save it. And later on you go back to edit it and, unbeknownst to the user. When they saved it because something had changed elsewhere. So something became unpublished. 693 00:59:49.960 --> 00:59:58.580 Thomas Howell: It would either A not allow you to save the node any longer, or B. It would force a content change unbeknownst to the editor. So 694 00:59:58.770 --> 01:00:10.499 Thomas Howell: something would change in state, and you'd go to edit and save a node, and you'd it forcibly change the the content. So if it became unpublished when you went to resave it. 695 01:00:10.770 --> 01:00:12.729 Thomas Howell: it's permanently removed. 696 01:00:13.746 --> 01:00:17.449 Thomas Howell: From that state without a warning, or anything like that. And 697 01:00:17.570 --> 01:00:19.797 Thomas Howell: that type of 698 01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:25.020 Thomas Howell: forced content. Change 699 01:00:25.160 --> 01:00:27.410 Thomas Howell: is the thing I want to make certain 700 01:00:27.510 --> 01:00:29.110 Thomas Howell: to highlight as a risk. 701 01:00:29.750 --> 01:00:32.660 Thomas Howell: And that's that's because I I, 702 01:00:34.690 --> 01:00:36.769 Thomas Howell: if users know 703 01:00:36.780 --> 01:00:45.069 Thomas Howell: to allow that change, that's one thing. But if it's unbeknownst to the user that when they change this oh, they can no longer save the node 704 01:00:45.250 --> 01:00:54.000 Thomas Howell: without changing what they've got. It's very important to avoid those situations, because that makes permanent changes to the database 705 01:00:56.080 --> 01:00:58.870 Thomas Howell: And so, whatever records are, there 706 01:00:59.200 --> 01:01:09.820 Thomas Howell: are no longer the way they were prior, even if I intended to change just the body, but it changed the body and the reference field at the same time when I saved. 707 01:01:10.030 --> 01:01:11.540 Thomas Howell: and I didn't know. 708 01:01:11.540 --> 01:01:18.759 Benji Fisher: So. So if you're a content editor, and there are existing references that you don't have access to, they don't 709 01:01:18.800 --> 01:01:23.410 Benji Fisher: show up on the reference field, and then, when you save the node, those references get deleted. 710 01:01:23.940 --> 01:01:49.839 Thomas Howell: Right. And it it it. I think it gets really complex when you've got different types of editors editing the same content. So like I always thought of it as like the the like chief editor, permission can edit every node, and sub editors can't, and then it goes back and forth, and then content gets removed and added, depending on the permission of the person who's editing that particular content piece. 711 01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:58.010 Benji Fisher: Yeah. And and that's the sort of thing I was thinking about when I said earlier that it it is complicated, and we have to respect 712 01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:03.529 Benji Fisher: the decisions made by the site builder and the site builder has to be aware of the implications. 713 01:02:03.700 --> 01:02:05.400 Benji Fisher: the permissions that get granted. 714 01:02:06.347 --> 01:02:10.610 Benji Fisher: We have about 5 min left. We need to wrap up this discussion. 715 01:02:16.180 --> 01:02:17.430 Benji Fisher: so 716 01:02:17.530 --> 01:02:20.530 Benji Fisher: does anyone have a suggestion as to 717 01:02:20.980 --> 01:02:27.220 Benji Fisher: what we have agreed on. I'm I'm afraid I'm I'm I'm not aware of any consensus on anything. 718 01:02:33.380 --> 01:02:34.780 Benji Fisher: so I guess 719 01:02:35.140 --> 01:02:38.039 Benji Fisher: let's let's try to narrow it down a little bit. 720 01:02:38.605 --> 01:02:45.409 Benji Fisher: One option is to take the patch. As is so, it adds this new configuration option 721 01:02:45.610 --> 01:02:47.340 Benji Fisher: to the 722 01:02:47.870 --> 01:02:49.380 Benji Fisher: auto complete widget. 723 01:02:49.910 --> 01:02:52.719 Benji Fisher: Another option which I suggested 724 01:02:52.830 --> 01:02:55.210 Benji Fisher: is that we 725 01:02:55.420 --> 01:03:01.740 Benji Fisher: unconditionally change the behavior of the autocomplete widget to make it consistent with the other widgets. 726 01:03:02.120 --> 01:03:03.489 Benji Fisher: In other words. 727 01:03:04.096 --> 01:03:08.019 Benji Fisher: always give the behavior as if this new option were checked. 728 01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:17.729 Benji Fisher: and of course we have the option of not doing anything that it's better the way it is than than it is with the change. 729 01:03:18.190 --> 01:03:21.090 Benji Fisher: So opinions on those 3 options. 730 01:03:30.330 --> 01:03:31.399 Benji Fisher: Go ahead, Ralph. 731 01:03:33.160 --> 01:03:35.280 Ralf Koller: I basically would lean. 732 01:03:35.540 --> 01:03:41.389 Ralf Koller: what's your suggestion, Benji? But I'm not sure, if possible. But in that auto complete 733 01:03:41.780 --> 01:03:44.519 Ralf Koller: I would still think also like 734 01:03:44.710 --> 01:03:47.560 Ralf Koller: to have a label of basically unpublished 735 01:03:48.550 --> 01:03:53.569 Ralf Koller: at the end, that it's directly visible to the you, to the person editing. 736 01:03:54.270 --> 01:03:57.330 Ralf Koller: which reference is published, and which is not. 737 01:03:59.700 --> 01:04:00.540 Benji Fisher: Okay. 738 01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:06.090 Benji Fisher: I I think that's a good idea. I'm not sure whether that's in scope for the current issue. But maybe it is 739 01:04:07.125 --> 01:04:07.790 Benji Fisher: scott. 740 01:04:08.800 --> 01:04:11.509 skaught: I think the label should be clear that this 741 01:04:12.080 --> 01:04:13.839 skaught: means that the user would 742 01:04:14.870 --> 01:04:21.149 skaught: have have the permission to view any unpublished content. I think that needs to be clearer in the label. 743 01:04:23.040 --> 01:04:24.350 Ralf Koller: You mean in that label. 744 01:04:24.350 --> 01:04:25.000 skaught: Yes. 745 01:04:25.310 --> 01:04:31.509 skaught: it just says user has access to view. But it should be something like view view, all unpublished content. 746 01:04:32.700 --> 01:04:38.229 skaught: because that is actually the permission that it's now setting, and that will help to clarify where that 747 01:04:38.470 --> 01:04:39.690 skaught: ability is. 748 01:04:49.540 --> 01:04:51.130 Benji Fisher: or we could 749 01:04:52.070 --> 01:04:54.009 Benji Fisher: insist that the 750 01:04:54.800 --> 01:04:59.300 Benji Fisher: that the that that the merge request be updated so that it does what the 751 01:04:59.550 --> 01:05:01.099 Benji Fisher: label says it does. 752 01:05:02.112 --> 01:05:03.950 Benji Fisher: Yeah, I think. 753 01:05:05.340 --> 01:05:09.000 Benji Fisher: checking the view. Unpublished content 754 01:05:09.210 --> 01:05:13.370 Benji Fisher: is incorrect behavior, although I wonder what the the other 755 01:05:15.580 --> 01:05:17.249 Benji Fisher: the other form widgets, too. 756 01:05:17.940 --> 01:05:20.010 Benji Fisher: which which permission they're checking. 757 01:05:20.470 --> 01:05:24.849 Benji Fisher: But but yeah, cert, certainly the label and and the code should be consistent. 758 01:05:25.170 --> 01:05:26.559 Benji Fisher: It should do what the 759 01:05:26.660 --> 01:05:28.290 Benji Fisher: interface text says. 760 01:05:29.241 --> 01:05:31.969 Benji Fisher: But, Scott, are. Are you saying that you 761 01:05:32.110 --> 01:05:37.480 Benji Fisher: think we should make it an option, and rather than always change it. 762 01:05:39.870 --> 01:05:44.600 skaught: Yeah, because it's for content type. And there's content types where they may want to limit that scope. 763 01:05:45.310 --> 01:05:48.759 skaught: Actual project scope may want that limited on some contact apps. 764 01:05:50.510 --> 01:05:51.150 Benji Fisher: Okay. 765 01:05:51.554 --> 01:05:56.939 skaught: Otherwise, you know, we could switch the auto complete to a view all the time, and just use views all the time. 766 01:05:58.530 --> 01:05:59.530 Benji Fisher: That's a good point. 767 01:06:01.030 --> 01:06:04.390 skaught: I don't actually suggest using views all the time. Of course, thanks. 768 01:06:07.510 --> 01:06:11.049 Benji Fisher: It is a few extra steps for the site builder to to set it up. 769 01:06:11.590 --> 01:06:13.579 Benji Fisher: and it does clutter up your 770 01:06:14.140 --> 01:06:15.580 Benji Fisher: list of views. 771 01:06:24.320 --> 01:06:25.789 Benji Fisher: alright, so I guess 772 01:06:26.350 --> 01:06:28.820 Benji Fisher: Ralph and I are leaning towards 773 01:06:29.810 --> 01:06:32.200 Benji Fisher: making it consistent with the 774 01:06:32.640 --> 01:06:35.330 Benji Fisher: check boxes. Radio button Widget 775 01:06:36.340 --> 01:06:40.709 Benji Fisher: got, I guess, prefers the the current approach, but 776 01:06:40.740 --> 01:06:43.869 Benji Fisher: make make sure that it's doing what it says it's doing. 777 01:06:48.470 --> 01:06:51.150 Benji Fisher: And yeah, Scott also brings up the point that 778 01:06:51.890 --> 01:07:01.279 Benji Fisher: if you do need an option that is not provided by this form, widget you, or that you have the option of selecting by a view 779 01:07:04.030 --> 01:07:05.949 Benji Fisher: which gives you lots and lots of options. 780 01:07:09.870 --> 01:07:11.550 Benji Fisher: simo, Thomas. 781 01:07:15.410 --> 01:07:18.569 Thomas Howell: I tend to come on the side of Scott. 782 01:07:20.130 --> 01:07:21.705 Thomas Howell: I think that 783 01:07:22.520 --> 01:07:26.674 Thomas Howell: In in spirit of what you were saying around respecting 784 01:07:27.370 --> 01:07:29.020 Thomas Howell: the site builders 785 01:07:29.060 --> 01:07:48.049 Thomas Howell: desires for what is to be accessed and not, I feel that views are the time they deliberately build something to me. This feels like. It's a short cut, and it's harder for people to know exactly what it's doing in the back end. So breaking rules is more dangerous when you don't know what it's doing. 786 01:07:48.610 --> 01:07:49.770 Thomas Howell: but this 787 01:07:50.060 --> 01:07:53.530 Thomas Howell: lowers the barrier to entry for people having access. So 788 01:07:54.170 --> 01:08:02.330 Thomas Howell: I'm on the fence. I tend to think the views widget is the right way to create this, to address this need. 789 01:08:02.750 --> 01:08:03.950 Thomas Howell: But 790 01:08:05.310 --> 01:08:06.519 Thomas Howell: I'm on the fence. 791 01:08:06.780 --> 01:08:14.780 Benji Fisher: Okay, so we are at the end of the hour, and we don't have consensus. I think we should end the discussion, for now 792 01:08:14.820 --> 01:08:17.370 Benji Fisher: think about it some more. Try to come up with some 793 01:08:19.020 --> 01:08:21.099 Benji Fisher: good arguments for one or the other. 794 01:08:23.069 --> 01:08:27.370 Benji Fisher: So a little disappointing, frustrating. But that's that's where we are. 795 01:08:32.170 --> 01:08:32.809 Thomas Howell: Thanks. Thank you. 796 01:08:32.819 --> 01:08:34.579 Benji Fisher: Offer thanks all for coming. 797 01:08:35.105 --> 01:08:37.659 Benji Fisher: Hopefully, we can figure this out. 798 01:08:38.249 --> 01:08:40.969 Benji Fisher: and I'll I'll be back next week. Hope you can make it. 799 01:08:41.640 --> 01:08:42.520 skaught: Have a good weekend. 800 01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:43.270 skaught: I beg. 801 01:08:44.660 --> 01:08:45.689 Ralf Koller: Charm at Kemp. 802 01:08:46.520 --> 01:08:47.149 Benji Fisher: Like you.