WEBVTT 55 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:22.680 benji: Welcome. This is the drupal usability meeting for April 20, sixth, 2024. I'm Benji Fisher, sharing my screen and moderating 56 00:08:23.080 --> 00:08:25.350 benji: and also present, are Scott. 57 00:08:25.410 --> 00:08:26.610 benji: Quinn, Thumb. 58 00:08:26.830 --> 00:08:29.700 benji: Ralph Kohler, and Thomas Howell. 59 00:08:31.220 --> 00:08:35.549 benji: So I think we'll start by returning to the issue we discussed last week. 60 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:39.810 benji: which is 3, 2, 9, 6, 1, 9. Oh. 61 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:44.239 benji: support the multiple attribute for the email element. 62 00:08:46.045 --> 00:08:47.130 benji: And 63 00:08:47.300 --> 00:08:49.780 benji: I know 2 things 64 00:08:50.220 --> 00:08:52.670 benji: have happened since last week. 65 00:08:54.900 --> 00:08:57.769 benji: so someone working on the issue hitch shock. 66 00:08:58.903 --> 00:09:00.549 benji: suggested that. 67 00:09:01.416 --> 00:09:06.579 benji: Our recommendation, the email address quote quote is not valid. 68 00:09:07.585 --> 00:09:08.090 benji: Me! 69 00:09:08.310 --> 00:09:09.920 benji: He suggests that that 70 00:09:09.940 --> 00:09:12.655 benji: is potentially confusing. 71 00:09:14.420 --> 00:09:19.840 benji: what less helpful than than other things? And also Ralph mentioned on slack 72 00:09:20.180 --> 00:09:24.590 benji: that the the empty string 73 00:09:24.870 --> 00:09:28.530 benji: is particularly problematic with screen readers. 74 00:09:29.069 --> 00:09:34.670 benji: A screen reader would just read out the error message as the email address is not valid. 75 00:09:35.630 --> 00:09:37.249 benji: Do I have that right? Ralph? 76 00:09:39.460 --> 00:09:39.910 Ralf Koller: Yep. 77 00:09:43.204 --> 00:09:43.790 benji: And 78 00:09:46.450 --> 00:09:55.119 benji: so I I I think I said on slack that in in that case we should go back to separate messages for 79 00:09:55.390 --> 00:09:59.020 benji: empty and other invalid email addresses. 80 00:10:00.136 --> 00:10:03.959 benji: Personally, I still think that we should 81 00:10:06.500 --> 00:10:08.150 benji: list all of the 82 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:12.290 benji: invalid email addresses at once. 83 00:10:13.689 --> 00:10:14.989 benji: Rather than 84 00:10:15.750 --> 00:10:20.900 benji: just mention the empty ones. Have them resubmit the form and get the message about 85 00:10:21.070 --> 00:10:24.269 benji: any other invalid email addresses there might be. 86 00:10:28.310 --> 00:10:30.160 benji: And 87 00:10:31.820 --> 00:10:35.809 benji: Ralph, I see, you've put 2 links in the chat. Now, do you want me to 88 00:10:36.670 --> 00:10:37.790 benji: open one of those now. 89 00:10:37.790 --> 00:10:45.009 Ralf Koller: Just a sec, just the second one. The slack one has the video of the recording 90 00:10:45.270 --> 00:10:48.080 Ralf Koller: demonstrating the problem with screen readers. 91 00:10:50.160 --> 00:10:55.409 benji: Okay, I'm not sure this will work with zoom. But 92 00:10:59.790 --> 00:11:01.260 benji: once you're typing this note type. 93 00:11:02.650 --> 00:11:03.600 benji: summary button. 94 00:11:04.730 --> 00:11:08.160 benji: 16 point system 5 control I shared with gray. 14 on shadow. 95 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:11.080 benji: You do you hear what it's what screen readers are saying. 96 00:11:12.430 --> 00:11:14.089 Ralf Koller: The volume is low, but yes. 97 00:11:14.630 --> 00:11:16.410 benji: Okay, let me see if I can 98 00:11:16.470 --> 00:11:18.945 benji: increase the volume. 99 00:11:24.030 --> 00:11:27.519 benji: I can mute myself where my audio settings. 100 00:11:35.070 --> 00:11:36.130 benji: Oh. 101 00:11:37.730 --> 00:11:46.539 benji: while I'm screen sharing. I don't see the option in zoom to change my audio settings, so I only see the option to mute myself. 102 00:11:48.730 --> 00:11:55.799 benji: Usually there's a little menu next to that for audio settings. Well, let's play the rest of the recording. It's 9 more seconds. 103 00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:04.680 benji: Email address is not valid. Use the form like underline, a shade of medium blue user@example.com playing a shade of gray 14 digits and separate the addresses of the column. 104 00:12:09.350 --> 00:12:15.479 benji: I think. Actually, I posited a very inopportune time. Let's let's listen to that. A few seconds of that. One more time 105 00:12:17.400 --> 00:12:23.299 benji: system on default. I show the grade. 14 shit email address is not valid. Use the format link underlines. Click. 106 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:25.720 benji: The email address is not valid. 107 00:12:27.485 --> 00:12:29.030 benji: So yeah, it 108 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:32.479 benji: screen. Reader, ignores the the empty string there. 109 00:12:43.250 --> 00:12:45.779 benji: so I think pretty clearly we 110 00:12:47.040 --> 00:12:51.809 benji: have to have some separate message for empty email addresses to 111 00:12:52.500 --> 00:12:57.879 benji: do. People agree that it should still be one message rather than a message just for the empties. 112 00:12:59.490 --> 00:13:00.170 skaught: Come. 113 00:13:00.630 --> 00:13:05.309 skaught: I actually made a comment on the Mr. On this ticket, because we can actually eliminate this. 114 00:13:05.770 --> 00:13:09.460 skaught: There's a code mistake, and we can eliminate this whole empty message altogether. 115 00:13:11.630 --> 00:13:14.940 skaught: I will put this link on it. I don't know if you can see that. 116 00:13:16.130 --> 00:13:18.270 skaught: So yeah, this whole link can be because 117 00:13:18.290 --> 00:13:30.320 skaught: they're taking in the string. They're breaking it apart and exploding it. And then they trim it. They actually create this empty string. But they could just eliminate the entire empty string from it. And then we just don't have this error at all. 118 00:13:31.780 --> 00:13:38.560 skaught: because and then, because they're also then saving the data and on the page load, resaving the string that they filter 119 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:40.649 skaught: that would just filter that out completely. 120 00:13:43.521 --> 00:13:45.009 benji: What if they have 121 00:13:46.260 --> 00:13:48.490 benji: 2 commas. 122 00:13:49.250 --> 00:13:55.809 skaught: Then it's an empty thing, and it just gets filtered out. We just we just we just know that it's we take the responsibility of knowing that it's null and 123 00:13:55.900 --> 00:14:02.890 skaught: remove it from the user. Because we train wipe space. We're just continuing that to pre help the user 124 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.250 skaught: already eliminate their own error. 125 00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:10.960 benji: Hey? We're weren't you the one last week? Who said that we we shouldn't hide that error? We we. 126 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:15.400 skaught: I know. I I know, I said, sorry, I said, that we shouldn't be S changing users, input. 127 00:14:15.910 --> 00:14:18.699 skaught: But since we are changing users, input, but 128 00:14:18.750 --> 00:14:20.149 skaught: change it for the best. 129 00:14:20.410 --> 00:14:21.200 benji: Okay. 130 00:14:26.040 --> 00:14:27.040 skaught: And for a penny of. 131 00:14:30.330 --> 00:14:31.569 benji: Go ahead, Ralph! 132 00:14:32.233 --> 00:14:36.310 Ralf Koller: If that would be possible. That would be the ideal variant, because that's 133 00:14:37.540 --> 00:14:40.889 Ralf Koller: my ideal approach last week. 134 00:14:41.140 --> 00:14:47.459 Ralf Koller: just tripping it away and just mentioning if the email format is wrong, and that's the 135 00:14:47.790 --> 00:14:58.549 Ralf Koller: what I've mentioned, I think, on the red. The third point of error messages to avoid. The first point is basically to avoid them in the first place, and it would 136 00:14:58.650 --> 00:15:00.800 Ralf Koller: exactly that case. So 137 00:15:00.820 --> 00:15:02.249 Ralf Koller: a plus one for me. 138 00:15:07.340 --> 00:15:13.599 benji: Okay. Yeah. I think last week I was the one who pointed out that we are trimming white space 139 00:15:15.260 --> 00:15:16.580 benji: as as Scott 140 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:21.240 benji: calls and I. I don't feel strongly about 141 00:15:21.370 --> 00:15:24.170 benji: whether or not we remove empty 142 00:15:24.740 --> 00:15:26.240 benji: email addresses. 143 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:33.480 benji: if we do remove email addresses, should we 144 00:15:34.390 --> 00:15:36.059 benji: notify the user 145 00:15:36.270 --> 00:15:37.920 benji: when they submit the form. 146 00:15:38.650 --> 00:15:41.020 benji: 3 empty email addresses removed 147 00:15:41.160 --> 00:15:42.310 benji: or ignored. 148 00:15:48.140 --> 00:15:49.230 skaught: Yes, that's fair. 149 00:15:50.570 --> 00:15:53.070 skaught: It's fair to tell people that we've altered the data for. 150 00:15:55.090 --> 00:15:56.860 benji: And we get a thumbs up from Ralph. 151 00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:58.549 skaught: And that can be done to encode. 152 00:16:02.070 --> 00:16:03.889 benji: And a thumbs up from Thomas. 153 00:16:07.060 --> 00:16:08.085 benji: Okay? 154 00:16:12.250 --> 00:16:17.540 benji: yeah. So I I I don't see your comment on the merge request. I'm just. 155 00:16:17.540 --> 00:16:20.430 skaught: Online, 95 of email dot, php. 156 00:16:21.910 --> 00:16:26.790 benji: 95 of email, dot. HP, make sure I'm looking at the right file. 157 00:16:29.510 --> 00:16:32.209 benji: Old 95 or new 95, 158 00:16:33.900 --> 00:16:34.980 benji: huh? I'm 159 00:16:36.670 --> 00:16:42.160 benji: I. I don't see your comment there it it should also be copied to the issue right. 160 00:16:42.570 --> 00:16:43.280 skaught: Yeah. 161 00:16:44.230 --> 00:16:46.860 skaught: no, mine says pending. What does it say? Pending. 162 00:16:48.810 --> 00:16:51.299 benji: I think you haven't, submitted the comment yet. 163 00:16:51.832 --> 00:16:53.430 skaught: Finish with me. 164 00:16:57.610 --> 00:16:58.610 skaught: Okay. 165 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:00.530 skaught: do you see it now? 166 00:17:02.490 --> 00:17:04.349 benji: Do do do. 167 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:05.569 skaught: No! Where'd it go? 168 00:17:05.569 --> 00:17:06.719 Ralf Koller: Yes, it's there. 169 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:07.380 skaught: Okay. 170 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:11.039 skaught: Public screen. There we go. 171 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:13.900 skaught: Thanks. 172 00:17:16.690 --> 00:17:19.530 benji: Okay, so let's see, I was the one who 173 00:17:19.619 --> 00:17:21.877 benji: commented last week. 174 00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:25.210 benji: I guess I can. 175 00:17:26.691 --> 00:17:29.218 benji: Add another comment. Today. 176 00:17:30.340 --> 00:17:32.120 benji: unless someone else wants to. 177 00:17:36.140 --> 00:17:37.340 benji: Okay. 178 00:17:38.152 --> 00:17:46.599 benji: good. So we certainly have time to look at another issue. There was one that Steven Musgrave suggested. And then 179 00:17:46.780 --> 00:17:48.747 benji: there's this one, that 180 00:17:49.370 --> 00:17:50.349 benji: not this one. 181 00:17:51.750 --> 00:17:57.519 benji: Close, this this issue. Scott, you you're you're the one who suggested this right. 182 00:17:58.700 --> 00:18:02.209 skaught: Yeah. Oh, so yes, this is for the navigation module that's going in. 183 00:18:02.780 --> 00:18:03.730 skaught: I don't know if that. 184 00:18:03.730 --> 00:18:07.690 benji: Shall I continue sharing my screen, or would you like to take over. 185 00:18:08.976 --> 00:18:12.280 skaught: I can. If give me 1 s. 186 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:18.939 benji: Anyway. For the sake of the recording, it's issue 3, 4, 4, 3, 5, 5, 6, 187 00:18:19.790 --> 00:18:21.330 benji: and 188 00:18:21.370 --> 00:18:25.810 benji: yes, this is the contrib navigation module, but 189 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:31.890 benji: I think the the plan is to get that into good shape and then move it into core 190 00:18:32.734 --> 00:18:38.250 benji: and we've looked at some issues from this module before, and several core contributors 191 00:18:38.570 --> 00:18:39.590 benji: are 192 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:41.209 benji: are working on this. 193 00:18:42.370 --> 00:18:45.359 benji: So I haven't seen this particular issue before. 194 00:18:45.570 --> 00:18:49.890 benji: but the layout navigation user gets trapped on layout form. 195 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:57.730 benji: so I guess 196 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:02.509 benji: unless someone else has a site already set up. 197 00:19:04.690 --> 00:19:05.730 benji: I can 198 00:19:06.260 --> 00:19:08.590 benji: get the module installed pretty quickly. 199 00:19:12.060 --> 00:19:14.340 skaught: Sorry. I'm just trying to share. I have it installed. 200 00:19:20.130 --> 00:19:21.990 skaught: Oh, sorry! There we go. 201 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:25.470 skaught: If I just gotta grab zoom. 202 00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:29.269 skaught: Oh, I got a correct meeting. 203 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:35.940 benji: And I have a site 204 00:19:36.110 --> 00:19:37.180 benji: running. 205 00:19:42.090 --> 00:19:46.750 benji: I'll put the link into slack as usual. You can log in as admin admin. 206 00:19:49.800 --> 00:19:50.810 benji: and 207 00:19:54.460 --> 00:19:56.670 benji: that's what I have over here 208 00:20:01.610 --> 00:20:05.839 benji: so user can place box but get stuck on the form page. 209 00:20:06.650 --> 00:20:09.830 benji: only breadcrumb on the age page to escape. 210 00:20:12.530 --> 00:20:13.410 benji: I 211 00:20:13.420 --> 00:20:19.780 benji: that that description isn't detailed enough for me to see how to rebroduce problem. Can you walk me through it, Scott? 212 00:20:21.807 --> 00:20:23.830 Ralf Koller: He has to quit and rejoin. 213 00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:24.999 Ralf Koller: Don't use that. 214 00:20:25.940 --> 00:20:26.969 Ralf Koller: It will return 215 00:20:27.350 --> 00:20:28.279 Ralf Koller: in a minute. 216 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:35.080 Ralf Koller: But yeah, I was also unable to reproduce it based on that. 217 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:37.350 Ralf Koller: That's December dates. 218 00:20:44.190 --> 00:20:48.680 benji: See, he did add this screenshot. Maybe that'll give a hint. 219 00:20:50.710 --> 00:20:53.309 benji: save discard changes. 220 00:20:58.595 --> 00:21:02.750 benji: So I guess the idea is to use Lab Builder. 221 00:21:03.390 --> 00:21:04.459 skaught: Sorry. Hello! I'm back. 222 00:21:05.780 --> 00:21:06.490 benji: Hi. 223 00:21:07.520 --> 00:21:13.550 skaught: So yeah, so we've probably just discovered is they're moved over using layout builder for the position of it. 224 00:21:14.280 --> 00:21:15.000 skaught: Oh. 225 00:21:15.500 --> 00:21:17.580 skaught: can I? Would I be able to share. If you mind. 226 00:21:18.262 --> 00:21:19.439 benji: Shh! Of course. 227 00:21:20.250 --> 00:21:20.909 skaught: 1 s 228 00:21:24.490 --> 00:21:25.740 skaught: we'll play zoom. 229 00:21:27.290 --> 00:21:30.460 benji: Oh, this is odd! Now I can't stop sharing 230 00:21:32.304 --> 00:21:34.529 benji: so I'm going to try 231 00:21:34.770 --> 00:21:37.200 benji: leaving the meeting and rejoining. 232 00:21:45.190 --> 00:21:53.530 benji: it no, zoom isn't going to let me do that either, so I'm afraid I'm stuck sharing. I'll I'll have to look into this. 233 00:21:57.530 --> 00:21:59.540 benji: So yeah. 234 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:01.910 benji: I guess 235 00:22:02.130 --> 00:22:04.889 benji: I spoke too soon when I said, Of course 236 00:22:05.902 --> 00:22:08.400 benji: so you'll have to walk me through it. 237 00:22:09.310 --> 00:22:12.170 skaught: Sure I don't see your screen now. I think I dropped your screen. 238 00:22:13.910 --> 00:22:15.480 benji: Do other people see it? 239 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:16.130 Ralf Koller: Nope. 240 00:22:16.990 --> 00:22:17.845 benji: Alright! 241 00:22:19.110 --> 00:22:21.210 benji: Have to share it again. 242 00:22:36.770 --> 00:22:38.429 Ralf Koller: Yes, it's working. 243 00:22:45.460 --> 00:22:47.829 benji: Alright. So what what do I do? I'm 244 00:22:48.630 --> 00:22:52.760 benji: editing and and articles, and I can go to layout. Is that what I should do. 245 00:22:52.760 --> 00:22:55.901 skaught: No? Oh, sorry. Say sorry. So in 246 00:22:56.690 --> 00:23:01.399 skaught: configuration. Please go to configuration user interface. 247 00:23:04.840 --> 00:23:07.219 skaught: And the first option for navigation blocks. 248 00:23:07.340 --> 00:23:09.940 skaught: So what's happened is. 249 00:23:11.330 --> 00:23:20.059 skaught: oh, you're on the okay. So okay, you're on the old version. You're on the old version stuff. So all of this is in the Mr. For core right now. This hasn't actually gotten back to the contrib project. 250 00:23:20.956 --> 00:23:27.689 skaught: So you can't see that here you can't see the layout here. This is the old block placement tool still. 251 00:23:30.300 --> 00:23:37.930 skaught: So maybe I'm sorry. So maybe we shouldn't review this now. This might take too long or to be too difficult to review right now. I can come back to this next week, or something. 252 00:23:38.250 --> 00:23:39.850 benji: Okay, well, actually. 253 00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:43.079 benji: let me try again to stop sharing. 254 00:23:43.580 --> 00:23:54.130 benji: Now I still see the stop share button. So I assumed that IW. That it didn't work. But if you don't see my screen you can try sharing yours. 255 00:23:54.130 --> 00:23:57.580 skaught: I'm sharing mine is anybody. Which screen are people seeing? To make sure. 256 00:23:57.933 --> 00:23:58.640 Ralf Koller: Yours. Scott. 257 00:23:59.040 --> 00:24:01.489 skaught: Oh, sorry! Do you see Firefox? Or do you see. 258 00:24:01.490 --> 00:24:02.536 Ralf Koller: Bye, folks. 259 00:24:04.040 --> 00:24:07.210 skaught: I just wanted to make sure. So this is the screen where I wanted to get to 260 00:24:12.020 --> 00:24:14.420 skaught: oops. I probably just left it in a broken state. 261 00:24:18.580 --> 00:24:21.619 skaught: Sorry I have some work in motion that was going on at the same time. 262 00:24:25.226 --> 00:24:26.959 skaught: Let me bring this back 263 00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:28.970 skaught: really quick. 264 00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:33.870 skaught: 1 s, sorry. Let's do a reset. 265 00:24:46.030 --> 00:24:48.649 benji: Guess I'm the only one who can't see your screen. 266 00:24:48.650 --> 00:24:49.380 skaught: Okay. 267 00:24:50.094 --> 00:24:56.060 benji: I think Zoom is prompting me to to update, and maybe I should do that sooner rather than later. 268 00:24:58.070 --> 00:25:00.180 benji: Who knows? Maybe it'll fix this bug. 269 00:25:00.590 --> 00:25:04.530 skaught: Okay. So here, I'll take a screenshot right now of my screen. 270 00:25:05.040 --> 00:25:10.264 skaught: So this and drop that into a chat someplace. If I can. 271 00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:13.520 benji: Yeah, I can see the chat. 272 00:25:14.950 --> 00:25:16.519 skaught: Not sure if this is the right thread, though. 273 00:25:16.820 --> 00:25:18.129 skaught: Is this the right thread? 274 00:25:18.430 --> 00:25:19.560 skaught: Yes, okay. 275 00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:26.830 skaught: that's the right one. Okay, I'll drop that on. 276 00:25:28.620 --> 00:25:31.380 skaught: So this is what it currently looks like. So you can see. 277 00:25:34.410 --> 00:25:36.499 skaught: And everybody else, of course, can see my screen. 278 00:25:36.770 --> 00:25:48.870 skaught: So the new the new layout tool is no longer the block layout tool, and as a layout feature so that it gives the a user comes to this to the page, sorry. I also just need to enable 279 00:25:49.900 --> 00:25:50.770 skaught: help. 280 00:25:54.370 --> 00:25:59.209 skaught: or maybe it won't let me. It won't. Okay. Sorry. There's a message that there's 2 lines of text that should be here 281 00:25:59.430 --> 00:26:02.100 skaught: and just as helper text in general. 282 00:26:02.901 --> 00:26:08.519 skaught: But inevitably the new tool, of course, just uses layouts for people to actually place blocks 283 00:26:08.580 --> 00:26:09.850 skaught: and arrange them. 284 00:26:10.670 --> 00:26:13.759 skaught: Sorry. My code might be in a bad state because of what I've just done. 285 00:26:14.552 --> 00:26:30.387 skaught: So you're gonna just arrange blocks, add a new block in general. The problem in general is, of course, is that once you save or discard your changes, you're actually stuck on this page, the show content button allows people to instantly. Go between like block placement and seeing what the content is, of course. 286 00:26:31.041 --> 00:26:33.010 skaught: which is a general feature of layout. 287 00:26:33.704 --> 00:26:38.100 skaught: But even when you're here. Now, these menu items are not clickable at all. 288 00:26:38.320 --> 00:26:44.670 skaught: When you hit, save and make your changes or discard your changes, you're still sort of basically stuck on this page, and there's no way to get out. 289 00:26:44.840 --> 00:26:50.830 skaught: This is why I've opened up this ticket to say we need some links on this page to help a user get off this page once they're here. 290 00:26:50.940 --> 00:26:53.490 skaught: So that's where I'm just sort of picking up by just 291 00:26:53.590 --> 00:27:00.219 skaught: introducing a new to moving the show content, button up above save 292 00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:04.849 skaught: and adding 2 links below it to help a user get to either the front page or the administration of the site. 293 00:27:04.850 --> 00:27:08.609 benji: Hang on, Scott. I think Ralph has a comment or a question. 294 00:27:09.876 --> 00:27:10.949 Ralf Koller: A question. 295 00:27:11.580 --> 00:27:13.050 Ralf Koller: Could you please 296 00:27:13.140 --> 00:27:23.969 Ralf Koller: move to another admin page and then go to that page? If if that is that the page you get directly to, or is some step in between. 297 00:27:27.140 --> 00:27:28.240 skaught: Oh, what's it happened? 298 00:27:30.590 --> 00:27:31.790 skaught: I'm sorry. 299 00:27:32.650 --> 00:27:36.620 skaught: Sorry my site's not running. I'm well enough right now. So sorry. Say that again. 300 00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:40.969 Ralf Koller: I just wanted to ask if you could 301 00:27:41.110 --> 00:27:44.239 Ralf Koller: go to another page and then move to that 302 00:27:44.860 --> 00:27:50.430 Ralf Koller: new layout page just to see if that's the exact page you end up 303 00:27:50.600 --> 00:27:54.320 Ralf Koller: on, or if there's an intermediate step in between. 304 00:27:54.320 --> 00:28:00.450 skaught: No, so like like any other page on like going through never to you. Just go end up going directly to this page. 305 00:28:00.560 --> 00:28:02.450 skaught: and there'd be 2 lines of text on top 306 00:28:02.570 --> 00:28:04.950 skaught: that are off because the hell modules off of my envelope. 307 00:28:05.900 --> 00:28:07.080 Ralf Koller: Okay. 308 00:28:09.040 --> 00:28:11.550 skaught: So you just get here, and you see, and you'd see this. 309 00:28:12.540 --> 00:28:15.009 Ralf Koller: Okay. Okay, okay, that's one question. 310 00:28:15.010 --> 00:28:15.630 skaught: Wish. 311 00:28:15.870 --> 00:28:18.759 skaught: Yeah, you get to the navigation page, and you would just see this. 312 00:28:19.420 --> 00:28:22.400 skaught: So you go around, place your blocks, branch blocks. 313 00:28:22.630 --> 00:28:30.400 skaught: and there's nothing else that happens on this page. Right? You're on a page. You're on a page where you are editing the tool that you're using to travel the site. 314 00:28:34.580 --> 00:28:42.120 skaught: And that's the problem. So once you hit a save or discard yours just kind of stuck here, and it took me a bit to realize that the only way to get out of here was if I just used the bread crop. 315 00:28:47.290 --> 00:29:03.849 skaught: So the question of of the ticket is to how best help a user get off this page once they've done it, I was thinking. That's why I say, just put in some further links the other option that I was kind of thinking about was to change this to a drop button and have a drop button with save save go to save, go to front page or save go to administration. 316 00:29:04.330 --> 00:29:06.579 skaught: But the drop links, of course, might be more difficult. 317 00:29:27.140 --> 00:29:34.959 Quynh Pham: Question on that. Do we have other similar case like this? When you, sir, please save or discourse. 318 00:29:35.490 --> 00:29:40.999 skaught: I think that that this this page is actually so uniquely new in durable that there's no other example of it. 319 00:29:42.090 --> 00:29:46.140 skaught: This is such a very new use of layouts to edit itself 320 00:29:46.580 --> 00:29:48.780 skaught: that no place else in dribble does this. 321 00:29:53.170 --> 00:30:10.500 skaught: So there's this trap doesn't happen in other places like on on node edit. When you're creating a layout you're on the page you hit save a user knows that they're going to go to view, or whatever first right. But we don't have any action Tabs here. There's no other way for a user to do anything else. A user doesn't do anything else on this page, except for add or remove an order. 322 00:30:12.250 --> 00:30:13.720 Quynh Pham: I see interesting. 323 00:30:15.190 --> 00:30:16.259 benji: Ralph, go ahead! 324 00:30:19.460 --> 00:30:25.380 Ralf Koller: I think with Scott in regards of maybe a plot button might be 325 00:30:25.890 --> 00:30:32.800 Ralf Koller: good option here, or the pattern we've used before is basically to have one button save and 326 00:30:33.620 --> 00:30:35.689 Ralf Koller: go to somewhere and 327 00:30:35.810 --> 00:30:38.219 Ralf Koller: save and just save. 328 00:30:38.810 --> 00:30:39.890 Ralf Koller: But 329 00:30:42.130 --> 00:30:45.127 Ralf Koller: yeah, question is, where the user wants to return? 330 00:30:45.580 --> 00:30:48.059 Ralf Koller: And therefore, yeah, it's 331 00:30:49.040 --> 00:30:54.959 Ralf Koller: tricky. And, on the other hand, I'm not sure how accessible 332 00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:59.580 Ralf Koller: that new layout is in regards for screen reader users 333 00:31:00.210 --> 00:31:03.110 Ralf Koller: compared to the previous table-based one. 334 00:31:06.950 --> 00:31:09.690 skaught: Yeah, the change this. This was introduced 335 00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:12.059 skaught: swiftly over the last week, right. 336 00:31:13.290 --> 00:31:14.030 Ralf Koller: Okay. 337 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:16.889 Ralf Koller: last week I haven't really followed the navigation. 338 00:31:17.576 --> 00:31:24.750 skaught: I've been mostly on the main may Mr. To core right now, just because of the work that's been going on for the Mr. 339 00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:30.210 Ralf Koller: That I haven't followed at all. Cause, I thought, it's just technically in regards of a merge request and nothing 340 00:31:30.550 --> 00:31:32.450 Ralf Koller: new functionally. So 341 00:31:36.020 --> 00:31:38.959 Ralf Koller: think I have to test that with voice over at least. 342 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:43.230 Ralf Koller: But I'm yeah. I have doubts. 343 00:31:43.730 --> 00:31:45.839 Ralf Koller: It might be that easy to approach 344 00:31:45.860 --> 00:31:47.240 Ralf Koller: for screen with the users. 345 00:31:49.510 --> 00:31:50.210 skaught: Understand. 346 00:31:56.690 --> 00:31:59.310 skaught: So I so I guess in general say that 347 00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:05.499 skaught: you also recommend possibly looking at a drop button. I'll add a drop button as a suggestion for it. 348 00:32:09.080 --> 00:32:12.039 skaught: yeah, no, I guess that's okay. So that sounds like a good next step. 349 00:32:12.070 --> 00:32:15.139 skaught: And would anybody have any other? So thoughts? Sorry. 350 00:32:22.860 --> 00:32:25.709 Ralf Koller: And I think, yeah, some 351 00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:29.729 Ralf Koller: description, or providing some sort of context 352 00:32:30.170 --> 00:32:34.610 Ralf Koller: at the place where, at the moment the warning message is placed, would be helpful as well. 353 00:32:35.260 --> 00:32:39.249 Ralf Koller: because at the moment it's just added layout of negatiation layout. And 354 00:32:39.350 --> 00:32:41.590 Ralf Koller: just. This 2 buttons. 355 00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:54.249 skaught: So there is supposed to be 2 lines of text here. And that's just because I have something else set up. I've broken my way out right now. So that doesn't help. So there is supposed to be 2 paragraphs on top that just actually state. Sorry, I'll show you. 356 00:32:55.840 --> 00:32:57.850 skaught: It actually just says this on top. 357 00:33:00.130 --> 00:33:01.269 skaught: it's too borrowed. 358 00:33:19.180 --> 00:33:21.960 skaught: but does describe the fact that links are forums are 359 00:33:22.280 --> 00:33:23.820 skaught: disabled, because 360 00:33:25.040 --> 00:33:28.260 skaught: that's what it should be on the page. There's I have another bug open around that. 361 00:33:34.100 --> 00:33:35.710 Ralf Koller: And just 362 00:33:35.840 --> 00:33:37.440 Ralf Koller: could you 363 00:33:38.090 --> 00:33:43.200 Ralf Koller: go over to the layout again, please. 364 00:33:43.760 --> 00:33:44.540 Ralf Koller: and 365 00:33:44.810 --> 00:33:47.459 Ralf Koller: those blocks are dragon tropical. 366 00:33:47.460 --> 00:33:53.430 skaught: Yeah, they are. My local is broken right now. Sorry again. But these would just be dragable blocks, so they could do you can configure. 367 00:33:53.710 --> 00:34:02.250 skaught: Oh, it's gonna work. You can configure. The block opens, opens the settings tray and you handle the actual block settings for the menu blocks, you added. 368 00:34:02.570 --> 00:34:12.829 skaught: or if you're adding a block, and this isn't gonna work right now, if you had oh, no, sorry. It does work. Sorry. See, we have the user navigation shortcuts. And then you and then navigation user block as selectable items. 369 00:34:13.429 --> 00:34:16.040 skaught: Sorry. This is also some of my work that's in progress right now. 370 00:34:19.969 --> 00:34:32.389 skaught: But that's how the new feature works. So you add a new block. You select the menu you want the navigation plugin blocks that you want, so that, or the actual shortcuts block right? Those are what those are for people who may not know. Sorry. 371 00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:36.950 skaught: And this is the conversion from block ui block builder. 372 00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:40.520 Ralf Koller: And just one thought. 373 00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:54.410 Ralf Koller: would it make sense to illustrate to a certain degree you have the outline of those regions, but to label those regions that one is the content and the other is the footer. Or however, it's called 374 00:34:56.270 --> 00:35:01.219 Ralf Koller: just to provide some sort of context to the user at the moment. It's just a 375 00:35:01.410 --> 00:35:02.590 Ralf Koller: label, this 376 00:35:04.020 --> 00:35:04.710 Ralf Koller: outline. 377 00:35:05.428 --> 00:35:10.799 skaught: I think we definitely need to have another ticket and conversation around this because we're definitely talking about 378 00:35:11.430 --> 00:35:16.389 skaught: other ux problems, too. For sure. So you're seeing region labels, one place and. 379 00:35:18.950 --> 00:35:21.809 Ralf Koller: Not only when placing, but just 380 00:35:21.890 --> 00:35:23.729 Ralf Koller: have a label in place 381 00:35:24.220 --> 00:35:25.170 Ralf Koller: there 382 00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:27.060 Ralf Koller: all the time. 383 00:35:28.900 --> 00:35:30.650 skaught: Always always lived. 384 00:35:37.950 --> 00:35:40.980 skaught: And you you brought up screen. Reader. 385 00:35:44.470 --> 00:35:49.380 skaught: I will bring that up in the Ui meeting on Wednesday. Specifically. 386 00:35:50.980 --> 00:35:51.620 Ralf Koller: So. And 387 00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:58.879 Ralf Koller: just another question does the footer region also have at block. 388 00:35:59.050 --> 00:36:01.850 skaught: Yes, so they can place things in here. This is a place block. 389 00:36:03.050 --> 00:36:06.290 skaught: So there are 2. There's a content and a footer region right now. 390 00:36:07.130 --> 00:36:11.550 Ralf Koller: Yeah, but I mean on top you have that ad block button. But 391 00:36:12.040 --> 00:36:14.300 Ralf Koller: in the footer I don't see it. 392 00:36:16.900 --> 00:36:18.200 skaught: You are correct. 393 00:36:19.750 --> 00:36:22.270 skaught: Oh, footer doesn't. Okay. I'll just note that footer. 394 00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:34.469 skaught: That might be a bug. I've I've seen that button come and go, but I'll I'll just note that. 395 00:36:39.780 --> 00:36:46.050 skaught: But you can switch in the thing, because when you actually go to edit any of them, you can move them, and in that 396 00:36:46.220 --> 00:36:48.190 skaught: sorry that my local 397 00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:54.689 skaught: it brings up in a screen here that lets somebody pick the region and it shifts between it. So I can actually move that up. 398 00:37:07.830 --> 00:37:11.012 benji: So. So maybe that label in in the 399 00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:13.220 benji: in the settings tray 400 00:37:13.430 --> 00:37:18.119 benji: should be navigation region rather than just navigation. If I understand 401 00:37:18.390 --> 00:37:19.450 benji: what it does. 402 00:37:24.783 --> 00:37:25.949 skaught: You mean this one here. 403 00:37:25.950 --> 00:37:26.265 benji: Yes. 404 00:37:27.540 --> 00:37:29.479 skaught: These are the navigation plugins. 405 00:37:29.560 --> 00:37:32.949 skaught: So these are menu blocks, and these are the navigation plugins. 406 00:37:33.080 --> 00:37:35.530 benji: Okay, so that that's not what I thought of meant, okay. 407 00:37:43.850 --> 00:37:46.591 Ralf Koller: And talking of micro copy 408 00:37:47.560 --> 00:37:48.850 Ralf Koller: the title 409 00:37:48.890 --> 00:37:55.510 Ralf Koller: or the H. One might be also optimized, because at the moment you have 410 00:37:55.640 --> 00:37:59.120 Ralf Koller: layout twice added layout for navigation layout. 411 00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:01.970 Ralf Koller: Okay? 412 00:38:03.630 --> 00:38:05.520 Ralf Koller: Maybe. Simply, yeah. 413 00:38:05.630 --> 00:38:10.929 Ralf Koller: Strike the second layout. Just edit the layout for the navigation sidebar. 414 00:38:13.240 --> 00:38:18.570 Ralf Koller: Yeah. Replace layout beside board might be the more appropriate term in that regard. 415 00:38:18.570 --> 00:38:23.529 skaught: Actually that kind of works with the yeah, just to note, I guess if I can open it. 416 00:38:23.700 --> 00:38:24.889 skaught: or if I can get back 417 00:38:25.420 --> 00:38:29.620 skaught: to my site. Nope, I can't get back. The actual menu is still called navigation 418 00:38:29.740 --> 00:38:32.140 skaught: blocks, or something to the actual. 419 00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:34.020 skaught: Anyway, I can still post 420 00:38:34.660 --> 00:38:35.900 skaught: called something worse. 421 00:38:38.490 --> 00:38:40.370 skaught: It's the third level, then 422 00:38:56.760 --> 00:39:00.990 skaught: lots of things. I I only noticed one thing. So thank you for bringing up. Certainly these points. 423 00:39:01.170 --> 00:39:03.676 skaught: I will definitely bring up the screen, reader. 424 00:39:04.010 --> 00:39:11.640 skaught: a need for that to be done on the weekly meeting, because that's definitely a bigger issue. I can open up issues around all these other smaller issues. 425 00:39:12.520 --> 00:39:17.720 benji: Yeah, the the other option for the page title is edit Navigation layout. 426 00:39:19.420 --> 00:39:20.120 benji: Yep. 427 00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:22.120 Ralf Koller: That sounds also good. 428 00:39:30.965 --> 00:39:34.574 benji: Looking at the regular layout builder on 429 00:39:35.740 --> 00:39:38.140 benji: on my site, and I don't see 430 00:39:38.780 --> 00:39:39.920 benji: any 431 00:39:40.610 --> 00:39:44.690 benji: anything like that H. One that that we would want to be consistent with. 432 00:39:45.500 --> 00:39:48.090 benji: although perhaps that's because I'm 433 00:39:49.170 --> 00:39:52.749 benji: using the front end theme on an imami site. 434 00:40:01.090 --> 00:40:02.889 skaught: Say that again. Sorry! Could you just say that again? 435 00:40:03.938 --> 00:40:16.660 benji: I'm I'm looking at layout builder editing a node on the new mommy site, and I don't see anything like the page title edit layout for navigation layout. I don't. I do not see edit layout for this article. 436 00:40:17.290 --> 00:40:18.439 skaught: Right? Okay. 437 00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:21.524 benji: So there! There isn't any consistency there that 438 00:40:23.250 --> 00:40:24.760 benji: that would dictate 439 00:40:24.820 --> 00:40:26.569 benji: what title to use here. 440 00:40:27.060 --> 00:40:27.630 skaught: Okay. 441 00:40:31.590 --> 00:40:32.190 Ralf Koller: And 442 00:40:32.350 --> 00:40:34.220 Ralf Koller: one other detail 443 00:40:36.030 --> 00:40:38.089 Ralf Koller: in the sidebar on the right. 444 00:40:38.220 --> 00:40:41.278 Ralf Koller: the create content block button. 445 00:40:43.830 --> 00:40:47.440 Ralf Koller: are you able to add content blocks here because. 446 00:40:48.180 --> 00:40:50.108 skaught: Oh, I don't even know. Wow! 447 00:40:51.980 --> 00:40:55.700 Ralf Koller: Because technically, I thought it would be only menu 448 00:40:55.930 --> 00:40:58.339 Ralf Koller: blocks and navigation blocks that could be added. 449 00:41:05.790 --> 00:41:09.970 skaught: I don't even know. I will ask about that and create contact. 450 00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:17.830 Ralf Koller: And I think it's something I've 451 00:41:18.070 --> 00:41:21.199 Ralf Koller: raised in in the context 452 00:41:21.340 --> 00:41:22.300 Ralf Koller: of the move. 453 00:41:23.097 --> 00:41:24.709 Ralf Koller: Of the other 454 00:41:24.860 --> 00:41:27.850 Ralf Koller: block items in 10.1, 455 00:41:27.930 --> 00:41:42.599 Ralf Koller: and there's a still open issue about the labels in layout builder, and exactly those that labeling, and maybe it would make sense to change it from menus to menu blocks and navigation blocks like it's currently named 456 00:41:43.060 --> 00:41:45.230 Ralf Koller: on the old page. 457 00:41:45.250 --> 00:41:48.580 Ralf Koller: No, there's also cost just notification in menu. 458 00:41:49.490 --> 00:41:52.579 Ralf Koller: But the button is called Navigation block. So yeah. 459 00:41:52.650 --> 00:41:53.760 Ralf Koller: maybe 460 00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:56.569 Ralf Koller: choose a block 461 00:41:57.110 --> 00:42:00.229 Ralf Koller: and make it menu. Block and navigation block 462 00:42:02.070 --> 00:42:03.370 Ralf Koller: might be. 463 00:42:04.180 --> 00:42:07.899 benji: Although at the top of the settings trays choose a block. 464 00:42:08.030 --> 00:42:09.130 benji: so 465 00:42:09.230 --> 00:42:12.770 benji: I'm not sure that you need to repeat the word block. 466 00:42:18.190 --> 00:42:19.560 Ralf Koller: Yeah, yeah. 467 00:42:21.770 --> 00:42:25.433 Ralf Koller: yeah. But yeah, it's it's front loaded in that way. 468 00:42:27.060 --> 00:42:36.050 Ralf Koller: screen readers could jump out, up, out, up, out at any point and same for people skimming through. 469 00:42:37.540 --> 00:42:39.539 Ralf Koller: You just have to read the first 470 00:42:39.550 --> 00:42:40.919 Ralf Koller: part, and then 471 00:42:41.580 --> 00:42:44.560 Ralf Koller: you can drop the basically block if you don't need it. 472 00:42:45.160 --> 00:42:48.090 benji: So men, menu blocks and navigation blocks. Hi. 473 00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:53.669 benji: it's still relatively short. And, as you say, it is front loaded. So I I think that's okay. If you think it's better. 474 00:42:54.640 --> 00:43:02.540 Ralf Koller: It's more explicit and clear in that way. If you're unsure about the context, you have at the moment, without block, you have to go up. 475 00:43:03.030 --> 00:43:09.100 Ralf Koller: check insult in case you have a small working memory, and then you go down again. 476 00:43:10.550 --> 00:43:13.720 Ralf Koller: and that way he would ever have everything in place. 477 00:43:15.830 --> 00:43:16.479 benji: And okay. 478 00:43:17.150 --> 00:43:19.530 Ralf Koller: And also the case with screen readers. 479 00:43:19.780 --> 00:43:23.670 Ralf Koller: You can't just quickly look up and go down again. 480 00:43:24.750 --> 00:43:25.660 Ralf Koller: So 481 00:43:27.180 --> 00:43:28.950 Ralf Koller: in that case I'm 482 00:43:29.160 --> 00:43:33.119 Ralf Koller: more drawn to be more explicit, a bit more verbose in that regard 483 00:43:34.600 --> 00:43:36.059 Ralf Koller: for setting the context. 484 00:43:40.163 --> 00:43:40.690 Ralf Koller: But okay. 485 00:43:41.250 --> 00:43:42.900 benji: Anyone else have comments on this. 486 00:43:49.570 --> 00:43:50.640 benji: Okay. 487 00:43:52.340 --> 00:43:53.860 benji: Scott, do you have? What do you need? 488 00:43:54.504 --> 00:43:56.090 skaught: Yes, thank you more than enough. 489 00:43:56.670 --> 00:43:57.370 benji: Great. 490 00:43:57.370 --> 00:43:58.120 skaught: Like you guys. 491 00:44:05.290 --> 00:44:06.654 benji: Alright. 492 00:44:08.460 --> 00:44:11.140 benji: We still have 20 min left. 493 00:44:12.950 --> 00:44:14.179 benji: Let me 494 00:44:15.270 --> 00:44:16.920 benji: try sharing again. 495 00:44:17.330 --> 00:44:23.580 benji: and I guess unless some someone has another idea. We'll have a look at the issue that 496 00:44:23.680 --> 00:44:25.280 benji: Steven Musgrave 497 00:44:26.380 --> 00:44:27.550 benji: raised 498 00:44:31.770 --> 00:44:32.760 benji: gown. 499 00:44:38.120 --> 00:44:40.949 benji: So let's see, here's the 500 00:44:41.600 --> 00:44:45.090 benji: issue for today's meeting and Ralph's 501 00:44:46.180 --> 00:44:47.440 benji: copy the link. 502 00:44:48.870 --> 00:44:52.029 benji: I haven't had a chance to look at this yet. 503 00:44:52.210 --> 00:44:56.170 benji: It's issue number 3, 3, 0 6, 8, 2, 0 504 00:44:56.300 --> 00:45:00.830 benji: show machine name and manage, form, display and manage, display. 505 00:45:01.130 --> 00:45:02.439 benji: table row. 506 00:45:04.190 --> 00:45:06.790 benji: Do. We have screenshot here. 507 00:45:08.910 --> 00:45:11.120 Ralf Koller: I have the patch applied 508 00:45:13.450 --> 00:45:15.979 Ralf Koller: in case you want to look at the site. 509 00:45:16.770 --> 00:45:17.880 benji: Okay. 510 00:45:18.430 --> 00:45:19.450 benji: so let's 511 00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:26.680 benji: first. So the manage form display for content type. 512 00:45:27.798 --> 00:45:30.669 benji: I guess this is showing what 513 00:45:31.600 --> 00:45:36.400 benji: what it would be with the patch. And let's have a look at what it's like 514 00:45:37.580 --> 00:45:38.830 benji: current way. 515 00:45:40.560 --> 00:45:43.823 benji: So going back to my umami site, 516 00:45:45.670 --> 00:45:47.200 benji: structure. 517 00:45:47.490 --> 00:45:49.080 benji: content types. 518 00:45:50.510 --> 00:45:54.100 benji: And I want the manage form display. 519 00:46:05.820 --> 00:46:07.349 benji: so the point is. 520 00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:14.689 benji: You see the the labels of the fields, but you don't see 521 00:46:14.980 --> 00:46:17.329 benji: the machine name of the fields. 522 00:46:18.210 --> 00:46:20.274 benji: and in the screenshot 523 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:23.440 benji: There's an extra column to show 524 00:46:23.680 --> 00:46:25.060 benji: the machine name. 525 00:46:25.680 --> 00:46:28.170 benji: and if I open Ralph's 526 00:46:32.860 --> 00:46:33.960 benji: save 527 00:46:37.560 --> 00:46:38.620 benji: oops! 528 00:46:39.260 --> 00:46:41.919 benji: Oh, no! I just opened the issue again, did. 529 00:46:42.890 --> 00:46:43.440 benji: oh, yeah. 530 00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:44.719 Ralf Koller: One sec. I have. 531 00:46:50.380 --> 00:46:51.649 Ralf Koller: I've added the 532 00:46:52.080 --> 00:46:53.460 Ralf Koller: linked for sure. 533 00:46:54.920 --> 00:46:56.620 benji: That's what I was hoping to see. 534 00:47:01.530 --> 00:47:02.380 Ralf Koller: The usual. 535 00:47:06.410 --> 00:47:09.420 benji: Right because I I I wasn't able to 536 00:47:09.640 --> 00:47:12.429 benji: see the screen while Scott was sharing 537 00:47:12.740 --> 00:47:13.475 benji: I 538 00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:20.359 benji: I opened my laptop and I had to push my laptop way to get keyboard. 539 00:47:21.444 --> 00:47:21.950 benji: Yeah. 540 00:47:21.950 --> 00:47:23.230 Ralf Koller: Yeah. Take article. 541 00:47:28.160 --> 00:47:32.370 benji: Okay. So here's a live example that's probably preferable to the screenshot. 542 00:47:32.530 --> 00:47:33.970 benji: So I'll just close that 543 00:47:36.810 --> 00:47:40.099 Ralf Koller: And just a disclaimer. It applies also to the managed display 544 00:47:40.740 --> 00:47:41.510 Ralf Koller: view. 545 00:47:44.350 --> 00:47:45.880 Ralf Koller: There's also a machine 546 00:47:45.940 --> 00:47:46.990 Ralf Koller: column edit. 547 00:47:47.780 --> 00:47:49.070 benji: Where's here? 548 00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:53.260 benji: It does not have that? 549 00:48:02.870 --> 00:48:07.460 benji: So people are familiar with the manage, display, manage, form, display screens. 550 00:48:08.370 --> 00:48:12.859 benji: Have you ever wished that you had access to the machine name on this this page. 551 00:48:16.970 --> 00:48:18.177 Quynh Pham: Yes, we do. 552 00:48:19.270 --> 00:48:20.040 benji: But okay. 553 00:48:20.530 --> 00:48:27.263 benji: yeah, I think so, too. So it seems like a good idea to me. So what's the specific question that 554 00:48:27.770 --> 00:48:28.959 benji: We were asked. 555 00:48:32.620 --> 00:48:34.230 benji: why why was this 556 00:48:34.330 --> 00:48:37.409 benji: tagged for usability review? Is there a specific question. 557 00:48:38.388 --> 00:48:41.069 Ralf Koller: They won't just want to have a sign off. 558 00:48:41.100 --> 00:48:44.420 Ralf Koller: Course, it's a need. It's a change to the Ui, and 559 00:48:44.540 --> 00:48:46.919 Ralf Koller: they want to follow the protocol. 560 00:48:47.140 --> 00:48:47.840 Ralf Koller: So. 561 00:48:53.300 --> 00:48:54.380 benji: Okay, 562 00:49:02.690 --> 00:49:05.309 benji: So Simo already commented on it. 563 00:49:07.630 --> 00:49:08.450 benji: go ahead. 564 00:49:09.100 --> 00:49:16.110 Ralf Koller: Just one additional comment. I've posted the link to the thread in the front end channel. 565 00:49:17.645 --> 00:49:21.849 Ralf Koller: Cause what is his name? Mario Hernandez 566 00:49:22.190 --> 00:49:31.350 Ralf Koller: and Mark Conroy commented on there, because somewhat B. Martiness brought up that issue there, and 567 00:49:32.380 --> 00:49:38.609 Ralf Koller: Mario Hernandez brought up the point that, for example, on manage fields. You already have the machine name. 568 00:49:39.700 --> 00:49:41.140 Ralf Koller: So. 569 00:49:45.510 --> 00:49:47.199 Ralf Koller: but the point is 570 00:49:47.620 --> 00:49:54.199 Ralf Koller: with that patch applied. You also have now on the manage, form, display, and 571 00:49:54.640 --> 00:50:05.920 Ralf Koller: on the manage, display, and in particular on the manage form, display not only the machine names for the fields, but also the machine names for the base fields, and I've asked there if 572 00:50:06.640 --> 00:50:08.379 Ralf Koller: I'm not a front end developer. 573 00:50:08.420 --> 00:50:16.590 Ralf Koller: just ask out of curiosity if the machine names for base fields like land code created status and so on 574 00:50:16.910 --> 00:50:23.089 Ralf Koller: are needed for theming at some point or regularly or not. And 575 00:50:23.670 --> 00:50:26.749 Ralf Koller: yeah, the feed feedback was that it is needed 576 00:50:27.330 --> 00:50:28.469 Ralf Koller: from time to time. 577 00:50:32.070 --> 00:50:34.820 benji: And the answer is that sometimes they are necessary. 578 00:50:35.800 --> 00:50:37.170 benji: So 579 00:50:42.740 --> 00:50:49.439 Ralf Koller: And to get into those base field machine names you would have to use like Mario, said, the dumb function or debug 580 00:50:50.200 --> 00:50:51.500 Ralf Koller: on the template. 581 00:51:00.194 --> 00:51:00.719 benji: So 582 00:51:02.010 --> 00:51:04.149 benji: I'm actually a little surprised 583 00:51:04.710 --> 00:51:06.550 benji: that I don't see them here. 584 00:51:08.190 --> 00:51:10.560 benji: Do I see them on on the form display? 585 00:51:11.010 --> 00:51:11.710 benji: Yep. 586 00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:12.780 benji: yes. 587 00:51:13.120 --> 00:51:15.360 benji: they're shown on on the form display. 588 00:51:19.940 --> 00:51:21.079 benji: so I guess the 589 00:51:22.630 --> 00:51:26.439 benji: context of that discussion, I I guess, is that 590 00:51:26.730 --> 00:51:32.650 benji: maybe we don't need the machine names here because someone can always click over to the manage fields. Tabs. 591 00:51:33.750 --> 00:51:34.375 benji: Yeah, 592 00:51:35.470 --> 00:51:37.030 benji: and. 593 00:51:41.180 --> 00:51:43.989 skaught: That's no good, if you have like dozens of fields on a content type. 594 00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:53.459 benji: Yeah, I I I agree. I I I don't think that switching tabs is is a good alternative. I think it is convenient to have it 595 00:51:53.590 --> 00:51:54.700 benji: right here. 596 00:51:55.686 --> 00:51:59.790 benji: And as Ralph pointed out in that slack thread. 597 00:52:00.200 --> 00:52:05.319 benji: there are base fields that don't show up on the manage field tabs at all. 598 00:52:06.020 --> 00:52:06.940 benji: So that's 599 00:52:07.170 --> 00:52:09.860 benji: 2 arguments in favor of 600 00:52:12.560 --> 00:52:17.229 benji: adding the column here and and not requiring people to go over to the manage field tabs. 601 00:52:23.750 --> 00:52:30.380 benji: Try to think of disadvantages. I guess the obvious thing is that 602 00:52:31.240 --> 00:52:35.999 benji: it's a complicated page already, and we're adding more information to it. 603 00:52:39.550 --> 00:52:41.470 benji: Less is more. 604 00:52:45.290 --> 00:52:50.209 skaught: These are short machine names, right? Th. These are nice examples of short machine names. 605 00:52:50.380 --> 00:52:54.479 skaught: but people would get more complex names and longer strings. So I guess that's but they were. 606 00:52:54.580 --> 00:52:57.240 skaught: One of the comments was talking about 607 00:52:57.820 --> 00:53:01.489 skaught: it, taking up too much screen space right of if there's 608 00:53:01.590 --> 00:53:03.490 skaught: longer names, more names. 609 00:53:03.540 --> 00:53:05.289 skaught: Same with the actual field names. 610 00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:08.650 skaught: Then the actual space you need to see the 611 00:53:08.970 --> 00:53:10.080 skaught: formatter 612 00:53:10.190 --> 00:53:11.230 skaught: summary 613 00:53:11.250 --> 00:53:20.270 skaught: is really bad, and that's something that people want to see more. So we're talking about the screen real estate. Somebody who made the comment on the ticket about combining the tag 614 00:53:20.550 --> 00:53:24.270 skaught: as a they put it as a subscript on the title. 615 00:53:24.610 --> 00:53:26.889 skaught: So what he actually said to use. 616 00:53:27.160 --> 00:53:31.250 skaught: which was not, of course, a good idea in itself, but to combine 617 00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:32.530 skaught: the title 618 00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:35.189 skaught: and the field onto into the one 619 00:53:36.139 --> 00:53:39.370 skaught: line or one of one cell. Different lines on the same cell. 620 00:53:41.470 --> 00:53:42.902 benji: Let me just 621 00:53:43.620 --> 00:53:45.950 benji: give an example of the first 622 00:53:46.820 --> 00:53:48.130 benji: objection. 623 00:53:49.560 --> 00:53:51.740 benji: People do sometimes use 624 00:53:52.060 --> 00:53:53.790 benji: long field names. 625 00:53:53.790 --> 00:53:57.499 skaught: 50 characters. I think it is. Field names can be up to field 50 characters. 626 00:54:02.620 --> 00:54:04.880 skaught: and the label could be. 627 00:54:05.160 --> 00:54:06.790 skaught: I think, 500. 628 00:54:08.270 --> 00:54:10.619 skaught: I don't think it can be more, but 500 for sure. 629 00:54:16.770 --> 00:54:20.010 skaught: or over 2 56. I'm not sure. 2, 56, for sure. 630 00:54:20.841 --> 00:54:22.830 Ralf Koller: If you reload the page, I've 631 00:54:23.870 --> 00:54:26.687 Ralf Koller: added another field with up and about 632 00:54:27.840 --> 00:54:30.369 Ralf Koller: Oh, in content type. B. 633 00:54:30.830 --> 00:54:31.480 Ralf Koller: Sorry. 634 00:54:36.470 --> 00:54:38.239 Ralf Koller: I'll add another one for 635 00:54:38.510 --> 00:54:41.670 Ralf Koller: the article. You're currently in 1 s. 636 00:54:43.980 --> 00:54:47.404 benji: Oh, but I lost what I did with my browser tools, Ralph. 637 00:54:48.430 --> 00:54:49.100 Ralf Koller: Oh! 638 00:54:52.520 --> 00:54:54.729 benji: So should I reload now? Well, I see. 639 00:54:54.730 --> 00:54:55.700 Ralf Koller: One. Fifth. 640 00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:04.630 Ralf Koller: I create a new one in the article Content Type 641 00:55:04.990 --> 00:55:05.680 Ralf Koller: Trust. 642 00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:07.360 Ralf Koller: Make it extra long. 643 00:55:08.020 --> 00:55:11.589 benji: And then what happens on a narrow screen? 644 00:55:17.745 --> 00:55:21.230 benji: okay, on a narrow screen we just see 645 00:55:21.700 --> 00:55:23.259 benji: the fields label 646 00:55:23.720 --> 00:55:25.050 benji: and the Widget. 647 00:55:27.840 --> 00:55:30.829 Ralf Koller: And you have the option. Show all columns 648 00:55:30.980 --> 00:55:32.500 Ralf Koller: the link on top. 649 00:55:33.430 --> 00:55:34.490 Ralf Koller: If you 650 00:55:34.750 --> 00:55:37.120 Ralf Koller: narrow the width tone again. 651 00:55:41.570 --> 00:55:43.730 Ralf Koller: Yeah, the show. All columns link. 652 00:55:45.720 --> 00:55:47.019 benji: I don't see it. Where is it? Oh. 653 00:55:47.020 --> 00:55:48.300 Ralf Koller: Down, down, down, run. 654 00:55:48.300 --> 00:55:49.420 skaught: Sort of field 655 00:55:50.030 --> 00:55:51.230 skaught: there that is. 656 00:55:51.230 --> 00:55:51.760 Ralf Koller: Yep. 657 00:55:53.110 --> 00:55:55.368 benji: And when I do that 658 00:55:57.710 --> 00:56:00.310 benji: I can scroll and see them all 659 00:56:06.650 --> 00:56:10.260 benji: alright. So so now should I reload the page? Will I see the things you added. 660 00:56:10.260 --> 00:56:10.860 Ralf Koller: Yep. 661 00:56:20.250 --> 00:56:24.450 benji: Okay, very long label and a moderately long 662 00:56:24.460 --> 00:56:25.859 benji: machine name. 663 00:56:26.630 --> 00:56:27.670 benji: And 664 00:56:28.070 --> 00:56:29.420 benji: that does 665 00:56:30.270 --> 00:56:33.372 benji: it wraps this text in the 666 00:56:34.110 --> 00:56:36.069 benji: in the Widget details column. 667 00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:37.850 benji: It doesn't hide it. 668 00:56:39.580 --> 00:56:41.539 benji: It it it is 669 00:56:42.060 --> 00:56:45.910 benji: sort of annoying that it's wrapped. Auto complete matching Colon 670 00:56:45.990 --> 00:56:48.240 benji: new line contains. 671 00:56:48.240 --> 00:56:49.770 skaught: Yeah, that's hyphenating, too. 672 00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:53.270 benji: Okay. 673 00:56:53.700 --> 00:56:54.540 benji: yes. 674 00:57:05.470 --> 00:57:08.736 benji: it totally out of scope for this issue. But 675 00:57:09.190 --> 00:57:11.590 benji: But maybe, instead of just giving 676 00:57:12.460 --> 00:57:15.910 benji: the form builder the option to say which 677 00:57:16.370 --> 00:57:18.589 benji: columns are hidden or not. 678 00:57:19.140 --> 00:57:26.459 benji: we should have a way like spreadsheets. Get give you the option of hiding particular columns, maybe. 679 00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:30.510 benji: maybe drupal tables should have something similar. 680 00:57:33.710 --> 00:57:36.999 benji: but again totally out of out of scope for this issue. 681 00:57:40.650 --> 00:57:44.440 benji: so so that's the main objection that especially when 682 00:57:44.810 --> 00:57:50.549 benji: labels and machine names are long. There's less space available for the Widget details. 683 00:57:51.090 --> 00:57:54.480 benji: And and Scott remind me, you you mentioned a couple of other drawbacks. 684 00:57:57.510 --> 00:58:03.099 skaught: Well, it's sorry. The suggestion that the one person made was just to combine the columns, and 685 00:58:03.810 --> 00:58:11.719 skaught: his thought was to wrap it with a subscript tag to help differentiate the title from that. But I think that would be the suggestion would be like 686 00:58:12.037 --> 00:58:19.540 skaught: stronger, something like a down level element. Then you have a title and a data element that would help define if you could. If they combine the columns. 687 00:58:19.820 --> 00:58:21.679 skaught: I think, is the only other suggestion to make. 688 00:58:29.130 --> 00:58:31.409 benji: Okay. So in 689 00:58:32.350 --> 00:58:37.150 benji: in the case of very long cables and and long machine names. 690 00:58:37.380 --> 00:58:40.730 benji: that wouldn't, I guess it would. 691 00:58:41.300 --> 00:58:43.179 benji: It would make the page 692 00:58:43.690 --> 00:58:45.729 benji: longer going top to bottom. 693 00:58:46.090 --> 00:58:51.280 benji: but it, it would remove the extra columns. So we we'd again have more 694 00:58:52.040 --> 00:58:55.169 benji: width available for the other elements. 695 00:58:56.070 --> 00:59:04.739 skaught: People could also limit the width of the title field to only be like 300 characters, Max, that could be done. Css. And it keeps the priority on the columns. 696 00:59:07.650 --> 00:59:09.370 skaught: but that's the cross theme that 697 00:59:09.660 --> 00:59:11.090 skaught: it's across the industry. Then. 698 00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:12.420 benji: Yeah. 699 00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:27.680 skaught: I think this is fine. I think it's a comment. I think this is fine, that it's on both in a separate column. 700 00:59:28.210 --> 00:59:31.610 skaught: The screen. Real estate can be fixed in theme level. 701 00:59:33.060 --> 00:59:40.179 skaught: Right? It's hiding columns. So that's good. That's just triple core feature. So that's good. It's hiding the column. So, and at least in 702 00:59:40.870 --> 00:59:47.810 skaught: on small breakpoints, the user has be able to get to the data. Still, it's useful. Still, it's available. 703 00:59:48.300 --> 00:59:56.249 skaught: So in that respect, it's a good, it's fine. I don't think combining it into one column is better if we just have to double down on Semantic. 704 00:59:59.900 --> 01:00:02.039 Ralf Koller: Binding it into a single. 705 01:00:02.040 --> 01:00:03.709 skaught: In the past on projects. 706 01:00:04.790 --> 01:00:09.559 skaught: It's good for some circumstances, but it depends on the client. I wouldn't do it for, triple as a whole. 707 01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:15.380 benji: So, Ralph, you're 708 01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:18.520 benji: not not clear on the suggestion of combining columns. 709 01:00:18.800 --> 01:00:23.989 Ralf Koller: No just wanted to say, combining card columns has the downside in regards to screen readers again. 710 01:00:25.680 --> 01:00:28.480 Ralf Koller: with columns. You have a clear labeling. 711 01:00:28.530 --> 01:00:30.840 Ralf Koller: and if you move it 712 01:00:31.730 --> 01:00:35.040 Ralf Koller: within a single column there and 713 01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:37.170 Ralf Koller: place the machine name underneath 714 01:00:37.210 --> 01:00:42.090 Ralf Koller: for screen for sided users. It works but for screen real users. 715 01:00:42.750 --> 01:00:44.519 Ralf Koller: It might be challenging. So 716 01:00:48.690 --> 01:00:50.190 Ralf Koller: I'm more in favor of 717 01:00:50.300 --> 01:00:52.159 Ralf Koller: going with an extra column. 718 01:00:53.170 --> 01:00:53.840 benji: And okay. 719 01:00:57.130 --> 01:00:58.689 benji: yeah, I agree with that. 720 01:01:04.030 --> 01:01:05.010 benji: Okay, 721 01:01:06.520 --> 01:01:12.500 benji: so do, do we have consensus on going forward with this change that it's an improvement. 722 01:01:14.820 --> 01:01:16.649 benji: Get a thumbs up from Scott. 723 01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:18.309 benji: I agree. 724 01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:21.620 benji: Quint agrees, Ralph agrees. Thomas agrees. Great! 725 01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:26.626 benji: My evil twin doesn't have anything to say. 726 01:01:27.160 --> 01:01:27.920 benji: Oh, wait! 727 01:01:28.410 --> 01:01:29.439 benji: Here we go. 728 01:01:31.150 --> 01:01:33.269 Ralf Koller: Maybe you're able to ensure the thumbs down. 729 01:01:33.460 --> 01:01:34.340 benji: We did. 730 01:01:34.550 --> 01:01:37.044 benji: No, even my evil twin agrees. 731 01:01:37.860 --> 01:01:39.110 skaught: Counting the voting cards. 732 01:01:43.790 --> 01:01:47.550 benji: great, and who wants to leave a comment to that effect? 733 01:01:51.090 --> 01:01:56.209 Ralf Koller: I could. But do we have any recommendations? Or just okay. 734 01:01:57.410 --> 01:01:59.520 Ralf Koller: don't think we have anything 735 01:01:59.880 --> 01:02:00.859 Ralf Koller: in particular. 736 01:02:01.640 --> 01:02:06.160 benji: Yeah, I don't. I don't think we recommended any changes to the current behavior 737 01:02:06.310 --> 01:02:06.970 benji: right? 738 01:02:09.620 --> 01:02:10.320 Ralf Koller: Okay. 739 01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:19.409 benji: Great. I have a a few minutes left. Any final words. 740 01:02:20.930 --> 01:02:22.789 Ralf Koller: Yes, one brief 741 01:02:23.820 --> 01:02:25.700 Ralf Koller: addition. I've 742 01:02:25.820 --> 01:02:31.980 Ralf Koller: left a comment and tagged the one once of you who've attended the 743 01:02:32.240 --> 01:02:34.806 Ralf Koller: meeting a few weeks ago. 744 01:02:36.100 --> 01:02:37.670 Ralf Koller: about the unpublished 745 01:02:39.678 --> 01:02:46.800 Ralf Koller: issue, if you remember, I think I'm a tech. You, Benji Scott and Thomas, as well as 746 01:02:48.430 --> 01:02:55.140 Ralf Koller: not. True. Seymour was the one who was also attending, and if you could take a quick look later. 747 01:02:55.922 --> 01:02:59.120 Ralf Koller: if there's anything else I've missed. 748 01:02:59.700 --> 01:03:00.890 Ralf Koller: But 749 01:03:01.530 --> 01:03:02.839 Ralf Koller: I've did a few. 750 01:03:03.320 --> 01:03:07.040 Ralf Koller: I've worked through the entire video and did 751 01:03:07.930 --> 01:03:12.140 Ralf Koller: some more testing. And yeah, just read through it. 752 01:03:12.670 --> 01:03:21.179 Ralf Koller: And if you should revisit it, or if it isn't necessary, because from my perspective. It wouldn't be necessary to revisit. And we could. 753 01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:23.860 Ralf Koller: I could write up the comment as is 754 01:03:24.920 --> 01:03:27.849 Ralf Koller: outlined in the comment there on the 755 01:03:28.080 --> 01:03:29.149 Ralf Koller: slack thread. 756 01:03:30.500 --> 01:03:31.260 benji: Okay? 757 01:03:35.750 --> 01:03:45.199 benji: I I guess the only other comment I have is that Drupalcon is in 2 weeks, and I should look at the schedule and figure out whether I want to try to run the meeting from Drupalcon 758 01:03:46.194 --> 01:03:49.739 benji: or or ask if someone else's developed. Run it. 759 01:03:50.520 --> 01:03:52.419 benji: but I guess I'll 760 01:03:53.030 --> 01:03:54.640 benji: I can talk about that next week. 761 01:03:55.190 --> 01:03:56.759 benji: So thanks all for coming. 762 01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:00.789 benji: Certainly. Be here in one week, and maybe in 2 weeks. 763 01:04:01.310 --> 01:04:02.749 benji: when I'll be at triple con. 764 01:04:04.600 --> 01:04:06.120 benji: Thanks a lot. You. 765 01:04:06.120 --> 01:04:06.926 Thomas Howell: Thanks. Everyone. 766 01:04:07.620 --> 01:04:08.860 Ralf Koller: Nice weekend everyone. 767 01:04:09.470 --> 01:04:10.460 benji: Thanks off.