WEBVTT 23 00:07:50.300 --> 00:07:55.240 benji: Welcome. This is the troop Usability meeting for May seventeenth, 2024, 24 00:07:55.630 --> 00:08:01.130 benji: and then to push your moderating, and also here our Ralph Coer is sharing his screen. 25 00:08:01.430 --> 00:08:04.459 benji: Seamo, Helston and Scott, go ahead. Well. 26 00:08:05.872 --> 00:08:17.010 Ralf Koller: We are looking at issue number (330) 208-2787, and responsive image field Widget inform display for image type field. 27 00:08:17.470 --> 00:08:20.510 Ralf Koller: It's basically about adding 28 00:08:21.290 --> 00:08:25.189 Ralf Koller: a widget for responsive images. On that form display 29 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:27.590 Ralf Koller: page. And 30 00:08:28.310 --> 00:08:30.520 Ralf Koller: I think it was in 31 00:08:33.330 --> 00:08:34.049 Ralf Koller: switch. 32 00:08:36.860 --> 00:08:37.679 Ralf Koller: It's 33 00:08:38.130 --> 00:08:39.559 Ralf Koller: donating 34 00:08:41.419 --> 00:08:46.270 Ralf Koller: by catch in issue number comment number 30. 35 00:08:46.760 --> 00:08:53.469 Ralf Koller: I also think this could use usability review. Try to tag it above for above, but apparently failed. 36 00:08:53.710 --> 00:08:55.020 Ralf Koller: And 37 00:08:56.670 --> 00:08:59.449 Ralf Koller: yeah, let's just simply take a brief look 38 00:08:59.610 --> 00:09:01.790 Ralf Koller: what the actual changes are 39 00:09:01.930 --> 00:09:04.218 Ralf Koller: without the patch applied. 40 00:09:06.260 --> 00:09:09.619 Ralf Koller: on that image field. We only have the widget for image. 41 00:09:09.910 --> 00:09:12.980 Ralf Koller: Now you get responsive image. 42 00:09:14.100 --> 00:09:15.450 Ralf Koller: And that way 43 00:09:16.380 --> 00:09:18.400 Ralf Koller: the options and micro copy look 44 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:20.390 Ralf Koller: the following way, you have 45 00:09:20.910 --> 00:09:23.539 Ralf Koller: a preview, responsive image style. 46 00:09:23.570 --> 00:09:28.130 Ralf Koller: the options available, no preview as the default and narrow and white. 47 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:29.280 Ralf Koller: and 48 00:09:29.520 --> 00:09:35.780 Ralf Koller: a radio button for progress indicator with rubber and bar with progress meter and a description. 49 00:09:36.730 --> 00:09:38.429 Ralf Koller: Yeah, that's basically it 50 00:09:40.290 --> 00:09:42.440 Ralf Koller: any questions so far. 51 00:09:48.790 --> 00:09:52.340 benji: I I'm a little confused. I I thought Triple 52 00:09:52.490 --> 00:09:56.950 benji: has had responsive images in core since Google. 8. 53 00:09:58.900 --> 00:10:02.610 benji: how have we managed without an image when widget 54 00:10:02.760 --> 00:10:05.520 benji: until now a form of it, until now. 55 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:09.670 Ralf Koller: Good question. 56 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:17.660 skaught: Yeah, it's been a formatter before. Normally right? 57 00:10:23.160 --> 00:10:23.660 benji: I 58 00:10:24.390 --> 00:10:25.680 benji: guess so. 59 00:10:32.310 --> 00:10:33.030 benji: Yep. 60 00:10:42.210 --> 00:10:47.420 benji: I I guess I also posted a link in chat to a plain 61 00:10:47.660 --> 00:10:49.170 benji: mommy's site. 62 00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:53.870 benji: and there I guess you'd have to look at media 63 00:10:55.050 --> 00:10:55.724 benji: since. 64 00:10:57.540 --> 00:11:01.330 benji: the article contact type doesn't have an actual image field 65 00:11:02.010 --> 00:11:03.310 benji: back down. 66 00:11:04.770 --> 00:11:07.070 benji: If you look at the image media type 67 00:11:11.060 --> 00:11:13.290 benji: and manage display. 68 00:11:15.230 --> 00:11:17.450 benji: I think Scott is right. There's 69 00:11:17.680 --> 00:11:19.420 benji: a responsive image 70 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:20.620 benji: format 71 00:11:25.850 --> 00:11:26.550 benji: that one. 72 00:11:31.700 --> 00:11:34.168 benji: So I guess in a sense, 73 00:11:34.800 --> 00:11:37.139 benji: we don't need a specific 74 00:11:38.663 --> 00:11:40.110 benji: form widget 75 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:43.120 benji: to make an image responsive. It's just on the 76 00:11:43.980 --> 00:11:46.779 benji: the formatting side. 77 00:11:47.420 --> 00:11:48.580 benji: but. 78 00:11:50.510 --> 00:11:58.169 skaught: W. So what do we see if we save this with this, the element? What does this give us as an administrator? Is there something that we're not aware of. 79 00:11:58.190 --> 00:12:00.630 skaught: that this is giving us when we're adding in an image. Now. 80 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:08.039 benji: I guess it's mostly the preview. 81 00:12:11.290 --> 00:12:13.069 skaught: While you're editing a node. 82 00:12:36.270 --> 00:12:37.389 Ralf Koller: Oh, okay. 83 00:12:46.160 --> 00:12:48.130 skaught: You have to save about edit. 84 00:13:00.830 --> 00:13:02.150 Ralf Koller: That's odd. 85 00:13:02.920 --> 00:13:04.350 Ralf Koller: I've saved it. 86 00:13:05.260 --> 00:13:08.730 Ralf Koller: I've set the responsive image style to narrow. 87 00:13:09.750 --> 00:13:12.249 benji: Try force. Reloading the edit page. 88 00:13:29.210 --> 00:13:29.950 Ralf Koller: Nope. 89 00:13:30.675 --> 00:13:36.199 benji: Put in some alt text and and pre hit preview at the bottom. 90 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:44.380 Ralf Koller: Nope. 91 00:13:45.670 --> 00:13:49.100 benji: And instead of save button, can you use the preview button at the bottom? 92 00:13:54.770 --> 00:13:56.559 benji: That doesn't seem very narrow. 93 00:13:58.170 --> 00:14:01.639 skaught: Yeah, no, this is this is node. Render. This is not form, display. 94 00:14:01.640 --> 00:14:02.840 Ralf Koller: Yep, exactly. 95 00:14:03.490 --> 00:14:06.039 Ralf Koller: My expectation would have been that 96 00:14:07.270 --> 00:14:08.759 Ralf Koller: something is shown here. 97 00:14:09.800 --> 00:14:14.119 skaught: Do we have a console? Yeah, I would, too. I I sorry I want to debug. Sorry. 98 00:14:17.570 --> 00:14:18.250 Ralf Koller: Remote control. 99 00:14:18.250 --> 00:14:19.280 Simo Hellsten: One day step 100 00:14:20.190 --> 00:14:22.339 Simo Hellsten: all the image style works. 101 00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:42.990 skaught: Why did we only have 2 selections? Why didn't we have all of these all these to choose from? 102 00:14:43.250 --> 00:14:44.820 Ralf Koller: Wait a second and 103 00:14:44.920 --> 00:14:46.720 Ralf Koller: narrow doesn't exist 104 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:50.309 Ralf Koller: on here. I thought. 105 00:14:50.310 --> 00:14:51.020 Simo Hellsten: Dutch. 106 00:14:51.180 --> 00:14:52.989 Simo Hellsten: but these are not 107 00:14:53.040 --> 00:14:55.180 Simo Hellsten: responsive, I think. 108 00:14:55.980 --> 00:14:59.099 Simo Hellsten: but the correspond images are elsewhere. 109 00:15:00.370 --> 00:15:03.339 skaught: It's responsive, tied to breakpoint module, not. 110 00:15:03.340 --> 00:15:04.689 Ralf Koller: Oh, there it is. Yeah. 111 00:15:04.690 --> 00:15:05.320 skaught: Cash. 112 00:15:07.660 --> 00:15:09.779 Ralf Koller: Seamless. Right? Yeah, thank you. 113 00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:13.520 Ralf Koller: Also completely forgot about that. 114 00:15:22.180 --> 00:15:23.280 Ralf Koller: But still. 115 00:15:34.370 --> 00:15:35.080 Ralf Koller: ma'am. 116 00:15:42.680 --> 00:15:45.709 Ralf Koller: let's change to the different one. 117 00:15:45.940 --> 00:15:47.509 Ralf Koller: Do another false reload. 118 00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:15.380 Ralf Koller: That is odd. 119 00:16:16.810 --> 00:16:20.027 Simo Hellsten: What would happen your this is Claro. 120 00:16:20.880 --> 00:16:23.940 Simo Hellsten: What would happen if you use front-end theme for editing 121 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:25.530 Simo Hellsten: that note? 122 00:16:28.110 --> 00:16:30.410 Simo Hellsten: Will that have some effect? 123 00:16:34.510 --> 00:16:36.120 Ralf Koller: Or 124 00:17:10.430 --> 00:17:11.280 Ralf Koller: Nope. 125 00:17:17.560 --> 00:17:20.479 benji: Oh, and I say that offer Shaw has joined us. 126 00:17:22.420 --> 00:17:28.439 benji: Offer, are you familiar with this issue? It's adding a form widget for responsive images. 127 00:17:28.490 --> 00:17:30.740 benji: Previously there was only a formatter 128 00:18:00.450 --> 00:18:01.290 benji: help. 129 00:18:05.060 --> 00:18:08.240 benji: I guess we should certainly ask about this on the issue. 130 00:18:08.530 --> 00:18:09.530 Ralf Koller: Yep. 131 00:18:09.950 --> 00:18:15.000 benji: But in the meantime we we could also look at the microtext. 132 00:18:15.930 --> 00:18:16.610 benji: Yep. 133 00:18:34.708 --> 00:18:40.760 benji: so let's start at the top. So Widget settings responsive image that I think is standard. 134 00:18:41.827 --> 00:18:46.080 benji: The next line preview, responsive image style. 135 00:18:48.300 --> 00:18:52.059 benji: Could we get away with just preview style, since 136 00:18:53.706 --> 00:18:57.459 benji: under sponsored image? Or would that have accessibility issues. 137 00:19:00.320 --> 00:19:03.889 Simo Hellsten: I think we need to have that responsive there, because 138 00:19:04.290 --> 00:19:08.160 Simo Hellsten: even we were just looking first at image styles 139 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.210 Simo Hellsten: that are different from responsive image stores. 140 00:19:11.850 --> 00:19:12.370 Ralf Koller: Yep. 141 00:19:12.620 --> 00:19:13.580 Ralf Koller: and creep. 142 00:19:23.390 --> 00:19:29.399 benji: Would it be clearer to rearrange the text? Responsive image style for preview? Or 143 00:19:29.750 --> 00:19:32.779 benji: do we want to front load preview as it is 144 00:19:39.830 --> 00:19:43.720 benji: oh! And Aaron Mchale is also joining the meeting. Welcome, Erin! 145 00:19:44.150 --> 00:19:45.040 Aaron McHale: Hello! 146 00:19:45.410 --> 00:19:49.110 benji: I'll paste in again the issue we're looking at in the chat. 147 00:19:55.516 --> 00:20:01.370 benji: So do we. Do. We like the text as it is preview responsive image? Or or would we like to rearrange it. 148 00:20:07.050 --> 00:20:10.119 Ralf Koller: I don't know where my raised hand 149 00:20:10.410 --> 00:20:13.600 Ralf Koller: is with the sharing right now. Somehow it's 150 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:21.310 Ralf Koller: disappeared in the interface, so I just started talking so apologies for that. 151 00:20:21.310 --> 00:20:21.980 benji: Go ahead! 152 00:20:24.150 --> 00:20:25.469 Ralf Koller: I think. 153 00:20:26.250 --> 00:20:26.990 Ralf Koller: But 154 00:20:27.830 --> 00:20:32.739 Ralf Koller: I'm slightly drawn towards responsiveness style for preview. 155 00:20:35.130 --> 00:20:36.650 Ralf Koller: Course. Yeah. 156 00:20:39.690 --> 00:20:44.360 Ralf Koller: you're not reviewing the image style. But basically. 157 00:20:45.540 --> 00:20:51.870 Ralf Koller: you're using an image style for the preview. So the other way around it's a bit more clear. 158 00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:53.009 Ralf Koller: My perspective. 159 00:20:53.620 --> 00:20:55.849 benji: Okay, we get a thumbs up from Cmo 160 00:21:03.550 --> 00:21:05.310 benji: and a heart from Erin. 161 00:21:07.020 --> 00:21:08.949 benji: Okay, that was nice. 162 00:21:08.950 --> 00:21:17.180 Aaron McHale: To be a thumbs up. I'm not sure what the zoom I'm on my mobile, and I'm the first time I gave a thumbs up. I don't even know if it registered. And then I did another time, and you got a heart so 163 00:21:18.120 --> 00:21:21.109 Aaron McHale: you might get a laughing face next time. Who knows? 164 00:21:21.750 --> 00:21:22.500 benji: Okay. 165 00:21:23.899 --> 00:21:29.589 benji: and offer posted a question in chat. We'll get to that in a bit. 166 00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:34.102 benji: So yeah, I think I agree. 167 00:21:35.020 --> 00:21:37.459 benji: I guess I suggested it just because 168 00:21:37.770 --> 00:21:45.660 benji: it seems awkward to me. Preview responsive image style. It's sort of like those noun clusters the German is famous for. 169 00:21:46.130 --> 00:21:51.960 benji: Okay, so let's recommend responsive image style for preview, even though it's one word longer. 170 00:21:59.190 --> 00:22:06.790 benji: and then the help text under there is that even necessary, the preview. Responsive image will be shown 171 00:22:07.220 --> 00:22:09.300 benji: when editing the Content. 172 00:22:10.080 --> 00:22:12.489 benji: I'm sorry while editing Content. 173 00:22:15.810 --> 00:22:19.800 Simo Hellsten: I think we could drop responsive. The word responsive 174 00:22:20.210 --> 00:22:21.460 Simo Hellsten: and 175 00:22:21.630 --> 00:22:22.849 Simo Hellsten: will be shown 176 00:22:22.970 --> 00:22:25.969 Simo Hellsten: on edit form would be shorter, because 177 00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:30.620 Simo Hellsten: when you're editing the text. Maybe it's not shown because you have a 178 00:22:30.870 --> 00:22:32.040 Simo Hellsten: smaller wind 179 00:22:32.290 --> 00:22:36.150 Simo Hellsten: window or something like that, but it will be on the form. 180 00:22:39.610 --> 00:22:45.279 benji: Okay. So instead of while editing the content, you want to say on the edit form. 181 00:22:48.550 --> 00:22:49.619 benji: you want to 182 00:22:50.140 --> 00:22:52.730 benji: drop pre the word preview 183 00:22:53.450 --> 00:22:55.000 benji: because it's redundant. 184 00:22:55.606 --> 00:22:59.650 Simo Hellsten: No, I think responsive, because they only like the preview image. 185 00:22:59.810 --> 00:23:00.435 Simo Hellsten: because, 186 00:23:01.100 --> 00:23:06.679 Simo Hellsten: the image we just chose, what kind of image it is for the preview. 187 00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:09.880 Simo Hellsten: so we don't need to repeat 188 00:23:12.080 --> 00:23:14.520 Simo Hellsten: the response. It would. 189 00:23:20.590 --> 00:23:24.990 benji: How about something a little shorter, like the style to use 190 00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:27.549 benji: on the edit form? 191 00:23:32.850 --> 00:23:34.020 benji: And it's 192 00:23:36.990 --> 00:23:41.590 benji: in. In fact, the word preview is is a little problematic, right? We were 193 00:23:44.820 --> 00:23:47.530 benji: trying to get it to work. And 194 00:23:48.820 --> 00:23:53.880 benji: it's it's really the the edit form, not the node preview 195 00:23:54.430 --> 00:23:56.129 benji: that shows this 196 00:23:56.310 --> 00:23:58.219 benji: image style, we think. 197 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.160 benji: and I think that we 198 00:24:14.540 --> 00:24:18.200 benji: should avoid repeating too many words 199 00:24:18.560 --> 00:24:19.799 benji: from the 200 00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:23.339 benji: label in the help text. 201 00:24:24.950 --> 00:24:27.420 benji: So I would just say the style 202 00:24:27.530 --> 00:24:29.759 benji: used on the edit form. 203 00:24:30.850 --> 00:24:33.369 benji: If if that's what it's actually supposed to be. 204 00:24:35.973 --> 00:24:39.510 benji: seema, would you prefer something closer to what we 205 00:24:39.520 --> 00:24:40.929 benji: what it currently has. 206 00:24:52.430 --> 00:24:55.240 benji: I guess you were saying that the preview image 207 00:25:00.510 --> 00:25:02.639 benji: will be shown on the edit form. 208 00:25:06.130 --> 00:25:07.970 benji: Is that what you were suggesting, Simo? 209 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:14.179 benji: I see you're unmuted, but I don't hear anything from you. 210 00:25:17.470 --> 00:25:18.610 benji: Maybe you're having a look. 211 00:25:18.610 --> 00:25:19.990 Ofer Shaal: Say, edit, form. 212 00:25:20.170 --> 00:25:21.379 Simo Hellsten: Can you hear me now? 213 00:25:22.080 --> 00:25:23.250 Ralf Koller: Yes, it works now. 214 00:25:24.710 --> 00:25:28.610 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So we could also drop the word, for the image will be shown. 215 00:25:36.272 --> 00:25:37.240 benji: Go ahead. Offer. 216 00:25:37.780 --> 00:25:41.410 Ofer Shaal: I I open it in drup pod with umami. 217 00:25:41.610 --> 00:25:45.790 Ofer Shaal: And I'm thinking that one of the ways we're displaying things 218 00:25:46.140 --> 00:25:49.709 Ofer Shaal: he's in like a media library in a gallery. 219 00:25:50.120 --> 00:25:53.450 Ofer Shaal: and I just don't know if that would apply here. 220 00:26:02.580 --> 00:26:07.640 benji: yeah. But but before you joined the call we tried to test this, and we just 221 00:26:07.900 --> 00:26:09.830 benji: didn't see it working 222 00:26:10.660 --> 00:26:11.440 benji: 5 h. 223 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.863 Ofer Shaal: I have a I have a link I can share if you want. 224 00:26:18.710 --> 00:26:19.530 Ofer Shaal: still 225 00:26:21.100 --> 00:26:22.639 Ofer Shaal: make it public. 226 00:26:27.700 --> 00:26:28.410 Ofer Shaal: Okay. 227 00:26:30.350 --> 00:26:34.839 Ofer Shaal: you you couldn't see the the image gallery, or which part was missing. 228 00:26:38.030 --> 00:26:39.110 Ralf Koller: The 229 00:26:39.120 --> 00:26:42.480 Ralf Koller: image isn't shown on the edit form. It's always 230 00:26:42.500 --> 00:26:43.520 Ralf Koller: trust the 231 00:26:44.470 --> 00:26:48.960 Ralf Koller: that link we've all. In that case we've switched to the front end theme. 232 00:26:49.210 --> 00:26:51.659 Ralf Koller: But it's the same case for Claro. 233 00:26:55.620 --> 00:27:00.280 Ofer Shaal: Right. And I think if I'm understanding it correctly, maybe I'm missing something. But 234 00:27:00.420 --> 00:27:02.110 Ofer Shaal: when we're using 235 00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:03.340 Ofer Shaal: media 236 00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:07.049 Ofer Shaal: media is the one that managing responsive image 237 00:27:09.780 --> 00:27:10.380 Ofer Shaal: for like. 238 00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:12.790 skaught: Of image can be used across different entities. 239 00:27:13.180 --> 00:27:17.630 Ofer Shaal: Yeah. And we could. We can also add it directly. Probably. Let's say, I think this. 240 00:27:18.280 --> 00:27:25.919 benji: Right. So on, on new mommy we'd be looking at Media, which have image fields. And then we look at the 241 00:27:26.150 --> 00:27:29.310 benji: form widget for the image field on Media. 242 00:27:29.941 --> 00:27:33.069 benji: This patch would not make any difference, for. 243 00:27:33.790 --> 00:27:41.420 benji: like an article node, which in Umami has a media image rather than I'm sorry, Media Field, rather than an image field. 244 00:27:48.910 --> 00:28:01.970 Ofer Shaal: Yeah. So the last link I sent we see that image. If we move it, you get the media library. I. My point, I think is that is the preview we're talking about right in the in the setting that we just discussed. 245 00:28:01.970 --> 00:28:03.449 Ralf Koller: It's our assumption. Yeah. 246 00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:10.209 Ofer Shaal: That's why I thought, like edit form might be confusing, because I think this would be a popular way of 247 00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:14.940 Ofer Shaal: ending up using the responsive image. 248 00:28:20.890 --> 00:28:22.689 Ofer Shaal: But maybe it's the same, because. 249 00:28:22.690 --> 00:28:27.089 skaught: So the formatter, the formatter is the same whether it's on media or notes. 250 00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:32.679 skaught: or user or taxonomy. If we put a media and image field on it. It would use that 251 00:28:33.340 --> 00:28:34.160 skaught: this 252 00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:35.720 skaught: widget, yeah, in. 253 00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:44.699 Ofer Shaal: In Umami. The manage from display of image has default and media library like 2 2 settings. 254 00:28:58.170 --> 00:29:00.080 Ofer Shaal: extend the link, if that's helpful. 255 00:29:01.030 --> 00:29:03.539 Ofer Shaal: So if you click, manage from display. 256 00:29:08.022 --> 00:29:12.400 Ofer Shaal: Sorry if if you could use the link, I said, it's directly to the. 257 00:29:12.770 --> 00:29:13.380 Ralf Koller: Okay. 258 00:29:14.630 --> 00:29:17.960 Ofer Shaal: Now here we see on top default and media library 259 00:29:19.280 --> 00:29:20.100 Ofer Shaal: on top. 260 00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:36.110 Ralf Koller: Interesting 261 00:29:43.090 --> 00:29:48.270 Ralf Koller: in regards of the microcopy. It says the same pattern preview, image style. 262 00:29:48.330 --> 00:29:52.199 Ralf Koller: and also the progress indicating with rubber and bar with progress. Major. 263 00:30:09.290 --> 00:30:13.510 benji: So. Presumably this is what they used as a model. 264 00:30:18.170 --> 00:30:23.320 Ofer Shaal: In the what we saw before. It says responsive image. Maybe just Umami using something else. 265 00:30:23.460 --> 00:30:24.739 Ofer Shaal: Is that what's happening. 266 00:30:27.650 --> 00:30:29.310 skaught: This is just an image style. 267 00:30:30.050 --> 00:30:35.960 skaught: So let's go to this media and change its image to this responsive set. 268 00:30:36.390 --> 00:30:38.710 skaught: because this is an image, tile, not responsive image. 269 00:30:58.090 --> 00:30:58.800 Ralf Koller: This 270 00:30:59.850 --> 00:31:00.850 Ralf Koller: hit hero. 271 00:31:22.260 --> 00:31:25.490 Ofer Shaal: You'll have to remove the image and then see. The media library 272 00:31:33.790 --> 00:31:35.873 Ofer Shaal: didn't look like Hero, but. 273 00:31:37.750 --> 00:31:43.256 Ralf Koller: And, on the other hand, I would have expected that even without removing 274 00:31:44.110 --> 00:31:45.520 Ralf Koller: the media item. 275 00:31:45.710 --> 00:31:49.630 Ralf Koller: it would already use the different. 276 00:31:52.060 --> 00:31:58.050 Ofer Shaal: I think these are the 2 different options. I think a media library has a way to show the image preview. 277 00:31:58.320 --> 00:32:02.730 Ofer Shaal: And here I think it's diff. That's the default one. 278 00:32:06.020 --> 00:32:06.719 Ofer Shaal: But yeah. 279 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:10.819 Ralf Koller: Yes, in here. That would be also my assumption in here. 280 00:32:10.840 --> 00:32:13.040 Ralf Koller: It should follow basically the 281 00:32:15.570 --> 00:32:18.939 Ralf Koller: responsive image style chosen in here. 282 00:32:18.970 --> 00:32:20.550 Ralf Koller: In that case, Hero. 283 00:32:23.100 --> 00:32:24.340 benji: So 284 00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:36.129 benji: if you're actually editing the media item rather than editing an article that links to the media, then I would expect the settings here to take effect. 285 00:32:39.710 --> 00:32:43.230 benji: So try going to content. And then media. 286 00:32:46.140 --> 00:32:46.980 Ralf Koller: Man. Yeah. 287 00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:49.180 benji: And edit something from there 288 00:32:55.330 --> 00:32:57.669 benji: that sure doesn't look like a hero. 289 00:32:58.160 --> 00:32:59.110 Ralf Koller: Not at all. 290 00:32:59.790 --> 00:33:01.539 Ralf Koller: Should I remove it, and. 291 00:33:01.780 --> 00:33:02.450 benji: Sure. 292 00:33:09.120 --> 00:33:11.060 Ralf Koller: Let's go with 293 00:33:12.030 --> 00:33:13.250 Ralf Koller: call. B, okay. 294 00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:17.699 Ofer Shaal: Well, now, this is not using meet. Actually, I'm confused. 295 00:33:18.390 --> 00:33:19.579 Ofer Shaal: This is me. 296 00:33:19.900 --> 00:33:21.999 Ofer Shaal: This does. Is the library. Maybe. 297 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:28.479 benji: We're we're editing a media item. And, as Scott says, you can put an image field on any entity type 298 00:33:28.760 --> 00:33:32.540 benji: in Umami, the media, the image media content type. 299 00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:35.290 benji: Our image media type 300 00:33:35.620 --> 00:33:38.329 benji: has an image field on it. 301 00:33:38.420 --> 00:33:40.750 benji: And that's where we're setting the 302 00:33:41.580 --> 00:33:45.290 benji: form widget settings. And we're not seeing any effect. 303 00:33:46.260 --> 00:33:46.840 Ofer Shaal: Yeah. 304 00:33:47.570 --> 00:33:48.580 benji: So 305 00:33:50.050 --> 00:33:51.949 benji: it doesn't seem to be working. 306 00:34:01.080 --> 00:34:02.350 Ralf Koller: That should definitely be. 307 00:34:02.350 --> 00:34:03.080 Ofer Shaal: Or 308 00:34:03.530 --> 00:34:07.129 Ofer Shaal: before dispatch before this issue branch. 309 00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:09.449 Ofer Shaal: What was the 310 00:34:09.460 --> 00:34:12.500 Ofer Shaal: what, what didn't we have in this display? 311 00:34:12.770 --> 00:34:13.840 Ralf Koller: That option 312 00:34:14.580 --> 00:34:20.639 Ralf Koller: you had you've had before. You just had image as the option. And now you have responsive image alongside. 313 00:34:24.260 --> 00:34:26.170 Ofer Shaal: That wasn't there before. 314 00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:26.900 Ralf Koller: Nope. 315 00:34:28.100 --> 00:34:29.960 benji: There's there's a formatter 316 00:34:31.111 --> 00:34:34.870 benji: if you're managing the display rather than managing the form display. 317 00:34:34.989 --> 00:34:38.060 benji: you have the option of image or responsive image. 318 00:34:39.889 --> 00:34:41.709 Ofer Shaal: Okay, only specifically for 319 00:34:42.109 --> 00:34:46.989 Ofer Shaal: for the the manage form for the editor experience that was not there. 320 00:34:48.429 --> 00:34:48.869 Ralf Koller: Except. 321 00:34:48.870 --> 00:34:50.760 Ofer Shaal: Is that correct? Okay, thank you. 322 00:34:52.570 --> 00:34:53.280 benji: You know 323 00:34:54.620 --> 00:34:56.400 benji: now, now that I think of it. 324 00:35:01.120 --> 00:35:02.959 benji: I'm not sure that we 325 00:35:03.870 --> 00:35:05.290 benji: really want 326 00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:08.270 benji: 2 different formatters 327 00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:12.819 benji: like it. It doesn't seem to make much difference. 328 00:35:17.580 --> 00:35:23.100 Ofer Shaal: Right in in a way I usually want to know if I chose a wide or tall image 329 00:35:23.680 --> 00:35:27.249 Ofer Shaal: in the preview to have some reflection. Usually, I think. 330 00:35:28.210 --> 00:35:29.319 Ofer Shaal: at least, that. 331 00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:31.090 skaught: Request, not a bug. 332 00:35:33.460 --> 00:35:34.120 benji: Yes. 333 00:35:34.240 --> 00:35:35.850 benji: it is a feature request. 334 00:35:40.150 --> 00:35:46.330 benji: but I I wonder whether it might make more sense to add options to the existing format 335 00:35:47.160 --> 00:35:49.880 benji: rather than create a separate formatter. 336 00:35:51.250 --> 00:35:55.790 benji: So when the responsive image module is enabled, it could 337 00:35:56.380 --> 00:35:58.170 benji: add an option or 2, 338 00:35:58.670 --> 00:36:02.280 benji: or override an option on the image, formatter 339 00:36:10.520 --> 00:36:17.360 benji: but I I guess I I can't really make a recommendation there until I know how it's supposed to work. 340 00:36:22.950 --> 00:36:24.269 Simo Hellsten: I can see that. 341 00:36:24.790 --> 00:36:29.970 Simo Hellsten: in a lot of cases where there are different kinds of content types for specific purposes. 342 00:36:30.100 --> 00:36:33.449 Simo Hellsten: the and if they use always a specific 343 00:36:33.650 --> 00:36:35.020 Simo Hellsten: style of 344 00:36:35.650 --> 00:36:39.409 Simo Hellsten: now like specific format of image. So. 345 00:36:39.430 --> 00:36:41.399 Simo Hellsten: or one content type it can have 346 00:36:42.084 --> 00:36:45.759 Simo Hellsten: narrow image and other content type. It will always have a 347 00:36:46.110 --> 00:36:49.690 Simo Hellsten: different kind of responsive image. So they need to kind of 348 00:36:49.830 --> 00:36:51.479 Simo Hellsten: would make sense to have 349 00:36:51.590 --> 00:36:55.190 Simo Hellsten: to be able to use different values for different 350 00:36:56.170 --> 00:36:58.380 Simo Hellsten: edit forms, so that that 351 00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:00.830 Simo Hellsten: content editor will see 352 00:37:00.850 --> 00:37:03.300 Simo Hellsten: already there how the image will look like. 353 00:37:03.630 --> 00:37:04.350 Simo Hellsten: So 354 00:37:04.720 --> 00:37:05.490 Simo Hellsten: what? 355 00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.170 Simo Hellsten: And, on the other hand. 356 00:37:09.290 --> 00:37:14.289 Simo Hellsten: the other formatter might be useful for managing some libraries or something else. 357 00:37:18.790 --> 00:37:21.479 Ofer Shaal: Following up on what Benji said. I think 358 00:37:21.520 --> 00:37:22.620 Ofer Shaal: I 359 00:37:23.190 --> 00:37:41.890 Ofer Shaal: I think they somehow need to be connected, unless very extreme edge cases between. If I chose an image to display responsive image. Let the editor have the same one. If I chose a special aspect ratio, let's the editor see the same one as opposed to. Now you have 2 different places that 360 00:37:42.430 --> 00:37:48.959 Ofer Shaal: 95% or more times you need them to be the same, to to not have any surprises 361 00:37:49.431 --> 00:38:00.320 Ofer Shaal: where it seems like the feature request came from. We didn't have even that option at all to do. Responsive image web P. All that. And if it was linked somehow. 362 00:38:00.520 --> 00:38:02.979 Ofer Shaal: we would allow that just having 363 00:38:03.010 --> 00:38:07.839 Ofer Shaal: too much flexibility here, I'm afraid, gonna cause breakages and 364 00:38:08.010 --> 00:38:09.710 Ofer Shaal: unexpected results. 365 00:38:12.650 --> 00:38:15.440 benji: Okay. And I think scott was next. 366 00:38:17.732 --> 00:38:20.070 skaught: My biggest gripe right now is that we're 367 00:38:20.410 --> 00:38:27.470 skaught: allowing a formatter on an edit form that has no context to view mode. 368 00:38:28.340 --> 00:38:33.200 skaught: So why does a content editor need to see the responsive image if they don't know what Vm. Mode 369 00:38:33.510 --> 00:38:35.279 skaught: the information's going to be presented in. 370 00:38:37.720 --> 00:38:39.080 benji: Yeah, I think that's 371 00:38:40.510 --> 00:38:42.099 benji: I think that's a good point. 372 00:38:43.226 --> 00:38:46.970 benji: We at least need them to clarify what this. 373 00:38:48.060 --> 00:38:51.620 benji: what this issue was doing. The 374 00:38:51.790 --> 00:38:55.459 benji: the proposed resolution just doesn't answer these questions. Go ahead, Ralph. 375 00:38:56.460 --> 00:38:59.379 Ralf Koller: And also the longer I think about it. 376 00:39:01.240 --> 00:39:04.389 Ralf Koller: I'm not sure why 377 00:39:04.620 --> 00:39:09.090 Ralf Koller: you need that many options and image size, because basically 378 00:39:09.630 --> 00:39:11.760 Ralf Koller: what you get at the end is 379 00:39:12.200 --> 00:39:17.279 Ralf Koller: just that small preview image more or less. And so having one fixed and 380 00:39:18.090 --> 00:39:19.610 Ralf Koller: image format. 381 00:39:20.830 --> 00:39:24.620 Ralf Koller: or should be more than enough from my perspective, and I'm not sure 382 00:39:26.270 --> 00:39:30.040 Ralf Koller: adding responsive urges is even necessary at all. 383 00:39:30.660 --> 00:39:32.230 Ralf Koller: The longer I think about it. 384 00:39:33.250 --> 00:39:36.619 benji: Yeah, I I think that's what I've been trying to say. 385 00:39:39.770 --> 00:39:43.650 Simo Hellsten: No, that another thing. When I I think I brushed 386 00:39:44.490 --> 00:39:48.120 Simo Hellsten: star shot includes, and it has focal point 387 00:39:48.690 --> 00:39:52.539 Simo Hellsten: in there. And with focal point. I think there is also the 388 00:39:53.194 --> 00:39:55.330 Simo Hellsten: preview for different styles. 389 00:39:55.740 --> 00:39:59.239 Simo Hellsten: That's, I think, images, not responsive images. But still. 390 00:40:00.100 --> 00:40:00.930 Simo Hellsten: so 391 00:40:01.730 --> 00:40:05.070 Simo Hellsten: maybe it's a country stuff anyways. 392 00:40:06.010 --> 00:40:16.360 skaught: I think the risk that this is introducing right now is the process load for image cache. Somebody puts this in the media, and all media files are starting, going to get thrown through 393 00:40:16.470 --> 00:40:17.440 skaught: payment cash. 394 00:40:24.020 --> 00:40:27.469 skaught: and if somebody has thousands of images on their site that could be 395 00:40:28.130 --> 00:40:29.269 skaught: a lot of load. 396 00:40:29.930 --> 00:40:32.240 benji: I'm I'm sorry. I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. 397 00:40:32.270 --> 00:40:34.119 benji: If if to enable this. 398 00:40:34.120 --> 00:40:44.170 skaught: If this is enabled in media and the media library is renders everything through responsive image, then then that's a great big process change for the media library operation. 399 00:40:46.520 --> 00:40:49.850 skaught: Somebody's editing and picking media, and it's rendering 400 00:40:50.490 --> 00:40:56.639 skaught: like needs to render out like the if image caches haven't been rendered, they're going to start rendering out all of those images. 401 00:40:57.700 --> 00:40:58.400 skaught: Huh! 402 00:41:04.100 --> 00:41:07.179 skaught: Or when something will get rendered. If it's in the breakpoint, I guess right. 403 00:41:07.490 --> 00:41:10.260 benji: I'm not sure that would be the effect. But 404 00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:13.880 benji: again, we don't know enough about what this 405 00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:16.509 benji: issue was supposed to be doing to tell so 406 00:41:17.979 --> 00:41:22.170 benji: so you you might be right. Alfred, did you want to say something else? 407 00:41:24.220 --> 00:41:30.982 Ofer Shaal: Yeah, I'm trying to find which one in in project we have sometime we use. I think it's a retrieve module that 408 00:41:31.330 --> 00:41:35.569 Ofer Shaal: that really allow the editor to see the different options. 409 00:41:37.450 --> 00:41:40.650 Ofer Shaal: I think it somehow has to do actually with the 410 00:41:41.791 --> 00:41:46.320 Ofer Shaal: the the the focus focal point. Maybe that's the one but 411 00:41:47.640 --> 00:41:54.350 Ofer Shaal: what my memory is like. The the editor gets to see the image that was chosen in different aspect. Ratios! 412 00:41:54.570 --> 00:42:05.200 Ofer Shaal: How would it be cut? And then they get to choose, or because the that image would be used in multiple places on bigger sites. 413 00:42:07.030 --> 00:42:08.949 benji: And you think that's on the 414 00:42:10.040 --> 00:42:14.209 benji: edit page when they're uploading the image and not on the preview page. 415 00:42:14.830 --> 00:42:15.055 Ofer Shaal: Right. 416 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:21.589 Simo Hellsten: It's on that like. There is a link to preview preview link under the thumbnail. 417 00:42:21.710 --> 00:42:26.039 Simo Hellsten: So on the thumbnail you set the focal point, and then you 418 00:42:26.120 --> 00:42:29.459 Simo Hellsten: have the link to preview. So the tobacco, and so 419 00:42:29.790 --> 00:42:30.560 Simo Hellsten: up 420 00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:37.810 Simo Hellsten: dialogue or pop up, or something like that, and there it kind of has side scrolling list of all the different 421 00:42:38.160 --> 00:42:39.510 Simo Hellsten: image styles. 422 00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:42.470 benji: Ralph, what happens if you click on the link 423 00:42:44.030 --> 00:42:46.099 benji: based on what Simo just said 424 00:42:46.720 --> 00:42:48.190 benji: above image? It has. 425 00:42:48.190 --> 00:42:49.710 Ralf Koller: You need focal point. 426 00:42:50.090 --> 00:42:51.920 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. Focal point has it? 427 00:42:52.680 --> 00:42:57.709 benji: But maybe this is doing something similar. So could you click where it says, Corby, dot Jpg. 428 00:43:05.860 --> 00:43:06.920 Ralf Koller: 1 s 429 00:43:18.940 --> 00:43:19.940 Ralf Koller: maintain it. 430 00:43:32.340 --> 00:43:34.060 benji: But if you look at the 431 00:43:34.360 --> 00:43:39.870 benji: URL with those pop up windows or showing it's not in any image style, is it? 432 00:43:42.720 --> 00:43:43.730 benji: Just hit? 433 00:43:45.030 --> 00:43:46.399 benji: Looking at the top. 434 00:43:46.780 --> 00:43:47.439 Ralf Koller: Just an image. 435 00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:48.060 skaught: Course, 5. 436 00:43:57.510 --> 00:43:59.729 benji: Okay, so I I'd like to 437 00:44:00.260 --> 00:44:02.180 benji: cut off discussion here. 438 00:44:04.950 --> 00:44:06.340 benji: so 439 00:44:08.200 --> 00:44:14.240 benji: you know clearly, we we need a better description of what this is and how it works. 440 00:44:16.540 --> 00:44:17.320 benji: means 441 00:44:18.380 --> 00:44:20.050 benji: we're not sure 442 00:44:20.490 --> 00:44:21.820 benji: whether 443 00:44:23.140 --> 00:44:27.110 benji: it's useful whether this is something that should be handled during preview. 444 00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:31.040 benji: There might be performance implications. 445 00:44:31.628 --> 00:44:38.849 benji: So we we need to start by having a better understanding of of how it's supposed to work before we we can go any further. 446 00:44:40.117 --> 00:44:44.322 benji: So let's just leave a comment to that effect. 447 00:44:46.210 --> 00:44:49.870 benji: is there anything else we'd like to say at this point. 448 00:44:51.950 --> 00:44:56.990 Ofer Shaal: I shared the the module. I think that we're using in many projects. It's a contrib. 449 00:44:57.080 --> 00:45:03.640 Ofer Shaal: And I think what what that bring is the way we end up using images and bigger project are. 450 00:45:03.710 --> 00:45:14.209 Ofer Shaal: there are different ways, different cards, different heroes in in each one of these, when you upload the image. The editor needs to know how it's gonna end up looking 451 00:45:16.750 --> 00:45:20.213 Ofer Shaal: and that's really like the the usage we end up 452 00:45:20.870 --> 00:45:22.450 Ofer Shaal: doing. And yeah 453 00:45:23.430 --> 00:45:32.610 Ofer Shaal: may. Maybe when next time we look into it. If we had been, I think even the demos of Umami are not enough to show like well, how would that affect it in 454 00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:34.449 Ofer Shaal: need more styles, or 455 00:45:34.620 --> 00:45:35.750 Ofer Shaal: how it might look. 456 00:45:38.730 --> 00:45:43.449 skaught: Well, responsive image is still just applying a cache setting. So it'll just scale. 457 00:45:45.420 --> 00:45:50.899 skaught: whereas Crop will actually write anything focal point or image crop which uses crop api. 458 00:45:51.540 --> 00:46:00.180 Ofer Shaal: Yeah. My point here is more. I I think, in the I don't have it ready, but the preview that it gives the editor not not the actual here. 459 00:46:00.180 --> 00:46:00.760 skaught: In, the. 460 00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:01.590 Ofer Shaal: Yeah, it. Just. 461 00:46:02.010 --> 00:46:06.790 skaught: I know what you mean. I do actually know what you mean to there, I don't. I don't have anything. I can pull up and display setup either. 462 00:46:06.870 --> 00:46:07.920 skaught: But I know what you mean. 463 00:46:08.270 --> 00:46:16.300 skaught: but that's more accustomed to that specific widget like that control module has gone into more depth than responsive image does in order to do that. 464 00:46:17.410 --> 00:46:28.399 skaught: So to compare it like that, you know, pointed out to them that the image well, we're looking at a bug. We, I think that's one number number one is, we're looking at the bug. We see the widget is functioning, but we don't see that it's actually operating. 465 00:46:29.620 --> 00:46:35.129 benji: Right. We see the configuration form for the widget, but we don't see the effects of that configuration. 466 00:46:35.570 --> 00:46:40.470 skaught: And image crop module. That module right does a lot on top to make it 467 00:46:40.540 --> 00:46:42.080 skaught: right to make that ux better. 468 00:46:42.730 --> 00:46:53.899 skaught: but it as a as a crop tool. As you know, that module versus focal point in the way that the 2 things use the crop crop points crop corners versus a center point for focus. 469 00:46:55.390 --> 00:46:55.980 skaught: right? But. 470 00:46:55.980 --> 00:47:03.360 benji: What we're concerned with now is the user experience of of these modules, not not the effect they have. Yeah, we know they do something different. 471 00:47:03.690 --> 00:47:05.840 benji: But we might want to reuse the 472 00:47:05.870 --> 00:47:07.310 benji: user experience. 473 00:47:11.900 --> 00:47:15.709 Ofer Shaal: I'm thinking I do have a concern with separating 474 00:47:16.090 --> 00:47:17.370 Ofer Shaal: the display 475 00:47:18.080 --> 00:47:21.150 Ofer Shaal: mode and the editor mode. 476 00:47:24.440 --> 00:47:27.460 Ofer Shaal: Let's say this worked, and it wasn't with a bug. Here 477 00:47:27.720 --> 00:47:33.379 Ofer Shaal: we could view things as Mini, and they actually being displayed as hero. 478 00:47:33.700 --> 00:47:41.430 benji: Right? That's that's the question we want to resolve. But before we can answer that, we have to ask the people working on this issue 479 00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:47.309 benji: how it's supposed to work, because it doesn't seem to be working right now. So let's first get more information. 480 00:47:47.580 --> 00:47:49.780 benji: And and then we can ask that question. 481 00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:59.290 benji: I really don't think we can have further productive discussion until we know how it's supposed to work. 482 00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:06.569 benji: And Scott agrees. Ralph, did you want to say something else? 483 00:48:07.563 --> 00:48:11.200 Ralf Koller: I also look free in that regard. The only detail. 484 00:48:11.250 --> 00:48:25.049 Ralf Koller: I would like to add is in regards as a micro copy. Then the something that could still be quickly discussed. About the second part, the progress indicator. There's one detail that bothers me. 485 00:48:26.900 --> 00:48:29.609 Ralf Koller: and which is inconsistent between 486 00:48:29.680 --> 00:48:36.069 Ralf Koller: the terminology used on one of the radio button options and the terminology in the description underneath 487 00:48:36.270 --> 00:48:37.160 Ralf Koller: you have 488 00:48:37.580 --> 00:48:51.199 Ralf Koller: bar with progress meter, and in the description is just the progress, the progress bar as is referred to. So that's an inconsistency. And I would simply replace Bar with progress meter with Progress bar, and 489 00:48:51.470 --> 00:48:53.430 Ralf Koller: that would be way more straightforward 490 00:48:54.830 --> 00:48:55.850 Ralf Koller: and clear. 491 00:48:56.350 --> 00:49:02.060 Simo Hellsten: If we're talking about that text. Also, the thrower does display 492 00:49:02.100 --> 00:49:03.590 Simo Hellsten: the status. 493 00:49:03.870 --> 00:49:06.579 Simo Hellsten: if it's ready or not ready, so it doesn't 494 00:49:06.630 --> 00:49:11.629 Simo Hellsten: display status, but it doesn't display progress. So there is also an arrow. 495 00:49:14.230 --> 00:49:18.699 benji: Okay, is that same text that's currently used for the image. Widget. 496 00:49:18.980 --> 00:49:19.870 Ralf Koller: Yes. 497 00:49:21.980 --> 00:49:25.619 Ralf Koller: so it it isn't exclusive for this issue, but 498 00:49:27.116 --> 00:49:28.580 Ralf Koller: for core in general. 499 00:49:29.080 --> 00:49:29.770 benji: But ever. 500 00:49:29.770 --> 00:49:30.640 Ralf Koller: Patience. 501 00:49:33.870 --> 00:49:36.379 benji: So who would like to 502 00:49:36.730 --> 00:49:39.199 benji: post a comment asking for more information. 503 00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:44.140 Ralf Koller: Yeah, I could do it. 504 00:49:44.750 --> 00:49:46.080 benji: Okay, thank you, Ralph. 505 00:49:47.230 --> 00:49:53.159 benji: and we have almost 15 min left. Offer you raise this question in the chat. 506 00:49:57.090 --> 00:50:03.849 benji: with the new reality of starshot and its faster pace. How do we make sure it continues to keep ux standards. 507 00:50:04.130 --> 00:50:05.710 benji: since it's separate 508 00:50:05.980 --> 00:50:11.880 benji: from core, but might bring popular contributive modules and themes through recipes. 509 00:50:14.040 --> 00:50:19.624 Ofer Shaal: Yeah. So anyone, maybe doesn't have the context. Drupal just happened recently 510 00:50:20.150 --> 00:50:26.770 Ofer Shaal: where Joyce was showing star shot, which would have like 200 days timeline. 511 00:50:27.521 --> 00:50:30.540 Ofer Shaal: to be released, and it would become 512 00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:34.230 Ofer Shaal: would have a bigger representation on drupal.org 513 00:50:34.500 --> 00:50:36.600 Ofer Shaal: side by side to Drupalcore. 514 00:50:37.275 --> 00:50:48.609 Ofer Shaal: Starshot would bring the concept of recipes and the ability to have ready made sites or type of sites because they bring themes, modules configurations. 515 00:50:48.850 --> 00:50:56.500 Ofer Shaal: And I I just think, that's what I mentioned accessibility meeting yesterday. I can see how it's gained popularity. 516 00:50:56.530 --> 00:51:01.190 Ofer Shaal: and you know, because it's much better experience for many people, most people. 517 00:51:01.250 --> 00:51:04.219 Ofer Shaal: and as much as we take care of Vx and all that. 518 00:51:04.470 --> 00:51:08.690 Ofer Shaal: I'm not sure if there's something we can do, or any process we can add 519 00:51:08.970 --> 00:51:10.000 Ofer Shaal: to help 520 00:51:12.490 --> 00:51:16.049 Ofer Shaal: help starship keep accessibility because 521 00:51:16.180 --> 00:51:23.709 Ofer Shaal: I think it. It dives more into country world, which until now, I think we're focusing more on, or 522 00:51:24.660 --> 00:51:25.869 Ofer Shaal: that make sense. 523 00:51:27.340 --> 00:51:34.060 skaught: I think it's experience, Builder. We need to keep that focus on, not starshot stars as a recipe 524 00:51:34.080 --> 00:51:38.529 skaught: sort of like the collection of other control modules. Right, the control collection of like 525 00:51:38.780 --> 00:51:41.109 skaught: adding in path, auto and meta tag 526 00:51:41.210 --> 00:51:42.420 skaught: SEO stuff. 527 00:51:42.720 --> 00:51:46.050 skaught: so that dribbles more ready that way from contrab modules 528 00:51:46.120 --> 00:51:48.330 skaught: right? Not just additionally adding in like 529 00:51:48.370 --> 00:51:53.410 skaught: 20 of the most popular drupal common themes into starshot. Right? 530 00:51:54.160 --> 00:51:56.540 skaught: I think it's experience, Builder, that needs that focus. 531 00:51:59.730 --> 00:52:02.259 benji: So the experience builder is 532 00:52:03.230 --> 00:52:05.060 benji: basically the 533 00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:08.550 benji: version of layout builder 534 00:52:08.980 --> 00:52:13.840 benji: that's being developed improved. So that would still be in drupal core. 535 00:52:17.410 --> 00:52:24.740 benji: And so I guess. So that will still be subject to the core gates, including usability and accessibility. 536 00:52:25.567 --> 00:52:31.760 benji: And I guess offers question is really, what about the contrib modules that are being promoted. 537 00:52:32.581 --> 00:52:35.669 benji: By being part of the starshot recipe. 538 00:52:36.140 --> 00:52:37.489 benji: Ralph, go ahead. 539 00:52:40.020 --> 00:52:41.080 Ralf Koller: I think 540 00:52:41.100 --> 00:52:43.090 Ralf Koller: it might be an idea. 541 00:52:43.400 --> 00:52:44.630 Ralf Koller: Maybe 542 00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:48.809 Ralf Koller: over the next month is to 543 00:52:49.820 --> 00:52:55.369 Ralf Koller: take a look at each of those contract modules for one meeting. Just and just 544 00:52:55.990 --> 00:53:11.110 Ralf Koller: see if there are any pressing issues and from a user usability perspective mainly, and see if we could suggest any improvements and to make it a more flawless 545 00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:12.990 Ralf Koller: experience overall 546 00:53:13.090 --> 00:53:14.100 Ralf Koller: cause 547 00:53:14.770 --> 00:53:16.980 Ralf Koller: they differ. Let's put it that way. 548 00:53:17.810 --> 00:53:19.639 benji: Hey? You got thumbs up from Aaron. 549 00:53:20.380 --> 00:53:21.640 benji: Oscar, go ahead. 550 00:53:22.300 --> 00:53:26.300 Ofer Shaal: Yeah, I think my point here similar to what I mentioned accessibility. 551 00:53:26.770 --> 00:53:31.819 Ofer Shaal: We're gonna see. I I think we will see a huge change in how we. 552 00:53:32.160 --> 00:53:33.789 Ofer Shaal: the way we look at things. 553 00:53:34.080 --> 00:53:40.850 Ofer Shaal: If today we're like, Hey, you know, Core is great, right? Accessible. We take care of you. X. It's all good. 554 00:53:41.658 --> 00:53:48.519 Ofer Shaal: That's great, like we have a way, a gate in a way to to make sure things are up to a certain standard. 555 00:53:49.580 --> 00:53:51.630 Ofer Shaal: When starship works 556 00:53:52.010 --> 00:54:12.689 Ofer Shaal: the recipes of starshot, which is not maybe built into starshot. But the popular thing people. Maybe it's gonna be easier to have a blog post than Wordpress. Right? That's my thought. And why not? Maybe they gonna use paragraph. So any other something that's really useful for that recipe gonna become very popular in drupal. 557 00:54:13.130 --> 00:54:16.750 Ofer Shaal: I'm trying to think if there's something we can do 558 00:54:17.180 --> 00:54:26.540 Ofer Shaal: that, understand? It's beyond experience. Be there. Of course we should make sure. Experience anything in core. Right? Good experience be the also supposed to go back in core pretty quickly. 559 00:54:27.589 --> 00:54:34.420 Ofer Shaal: should be accessible. But all these things that are outside of core that become almost as important now. 560 00:54:36.643 --> 00:54:42.079 Ofer Shaal: should get similar love and care for lack of better word. 561 00:54:45.090 --> 00:54:53.240 Simo Hellsten: I'm wondering if this is something that should be brought up with the maintenance of the country module, so that it wouldn't be something that comes 562 00:54:53.370 --> 00:54:59.589 Simo Hellsten: so just should we start, should we ask that maintenance of those concrete modules? 563 00:55:00.020 --> 00:55:02.300 Simo Hellsten: Would it be the proper way. 564 00:55:09.160 --> 00:55:11.119 benji: So I guess the 565 00:55:11.260 --> 00:55:20.189 benji: the the usability meetings occasionally look at contrib modules. When things are brought to our attention. And I guess 566 00:55:20.850 --> 00:55:26.210 benji: I just see it as a shift of emphasis, not not really changing policy that 567 00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:33.020 benji: contribute modules included in star shot should get somewhat higher priority, and and maybe even 568 00:55:34.110 --> 00:55:37.179 benji: we should go out proactively and look at them. 569 00:55:37.890 --> 00:55:39.460 benji: Ralph, go ahead. 570 00:55:40.817 --> 00:55:42.609 Ralf Koller: Maybe just one 571 00:55:43.730 --> 00:55:53.249 Ralf Koller: way to distinguish between a core module module and maybe a contract module that is included in the star shot might be for core. You have the core gates 572 00:55:53.550 --> 00:56:09.269 Ralf Koller: where those bugs have to be fixed more or less before, and a fix can go in, and maybe an idea would be for contra modules included into a star shot, that they could go in, that they could be used. But 573 00:56:09.570 --> 00:56:10.830 Ralf Koller: and those 574 00:56:10.900 --> 00:56:15.789 Ralf Koller: bugs or recommendations should be fixed, but they shouldn't be a blogger 575 00:56:16.180 --> 00:56:20.969 Ralf Koller: that could be a way to approach it and restrict, and still 576 00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:25.369 Ralf Koller: would enable to iterate fast that way. 577 00:56:27.980 --> 00:56:28.480 Ralf Koller: Yeah. 578 00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:32.739 Ofer Shaal: And and I think people like would want to. Sorry, Eric, go ahead. I'll go after you. 579 00:56:34.140 --> 00:56:41.034 Aaron McHale: I was gonna say that I think it's some interesting conversation, and I agree with 580 00:56:41.600 --> 00:56:51.980 Aaron McHale: some of points that have been raised particularly like, I think I understand where where you're coming from. Offer in that like, how do we? I think we're saying is like, what is the role of the usability 581 00:56:52.010 --> 00:57:11.150 Aaron McHale: meeting. What is the role of like usability? Gates? And I guess also accessibility. And how do we ensure that? Then? We're kind of blurring the lines between like what is traditionally drupal core and what is like contrab here? And what are what are the gates like the starship. 582 00:57:11.160 --> 00:57:17.560 Aaron McHale: have to for something to go into starship? Does it also have to meet those same gates which I would argue? It probably does. But I think 583 00:57:17.990 --> 00:57:24.979 Aaron McHale: th there's always gonna be like, I think there's always there's always a compromise in some level like even 584 00:57:25.050 --> 00:57:31.309 Aaron McHale: even the perfect you, I think even the perfect ux sometimes is like there's good. There's compromises somewhere so 585 00:57:31.670 --> 00:57:35.819 Aaron McHale: like on a broad scale. I think if if what's happened with starshot. 586 00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:49.685 Aaron McHale: you know, if sale module like path ought to like. Okay, maybe I don't know. Maybe if we looked at it we would find some problems with it. But I think it's a net win. It's a net positive, you know, to have that in there. So 587 00:57:50.200 --> 00:57:56.620 Aaron McHale: I think when we when we approach things and we think about it, we should be looking at, you know. Overall, yeah, is, is a 588 00:57:56.770 --> 00:58:13.419 Aaron McHale: is the experience better by having the thing here? It might not be perfect. But like, that's okay, because we can iterate and improve on it. But, as Benji said, maybe the role of these meetings is we have to expand or scope slightly, and to put more of a focus on those modules that, as you said, have been sort of promoted. 589 00:58:15.610 --> 00:58:21.270 benji: And let me, just for the sake of the recording, mentioned your pages with looking at. 590 00:58:21.640 --> 00:58:26.409 benji: So this one about starshot is drupal orgs. Slash stars. 591 00:58:27.341 --> 00:58:31.559 benji: We've also been talking about core gates, which is triple.org 592 00:58:31.630 --> 00:58:34.900 benji: slash about slash, core slash policies. 593 00:58:35.080 --> 00:58:39.689 benji: slash, core, hyphen, change hyphen policies, slash core dash. 594 00:58:40.984 --> 00:58:46.059 benji: and Ralph just posted a link to this issue. 595 00:58:46.120 --> 00:58:48.259 benji: I guess there's a Github 596 00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:51.696 benji: project for starshot prototype. 597 00:58:52.780 --> 00:58:54.800 benji: an issue 67 598 00:58:55.260 --> 00:59:01.349 benji: is to make our star shot accessible, posted by Mike Gifford and Ralph already commented on it. 599 00:59:01.820 --> 00:59:03.759 benji: Go ahead, offer. 600 00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:09.569 Ofer Shaal: So my understanding from the meeting yesterday, my assumption is star shot. Gonna be 601 00:59:09.740 --> 00:59:11.490 Ofer Shaal: very close to core. 602 00:59:12.180 --> 00:59:13.280 Ofer Shaal: and 603 00:59:13.860 --> 00:59:21.909 Ofer Shaal: you would have, like a minimal recipe like it doesn't really bring many, but by default by at the minimal version of it. 604 00:59:22.270 --> 00:59:27.560 Ofer Shaal: Recipes, I think, is where the success will be, where it will make things very popular. 605 00:59:28.643 --> 00:59:38.030 Ofer Shaal: One of my point similar to accessibility. I think people who create modules want them to be usable. I'm not sure if all of them know about this venue 606 00:59:38.100 --> 00:59:42.489 Ofer Shaal: that they can bring, and maybe even ask questions, or in consideration 607 00:59:43.170 --> 00:59:49.619 Ofer Shaal: that we can perhaps help with just by having other minds, though from different perspectives, so 608 00:59:49.790 --> 00:59:51.140 Ofer Shaal: brings that 609 00:59:52.080 --> 00:59:57.750 Ofer Shaal: also to the starship world that just no longer is hey? Drupalcore is doing great 610 00:59:57.830 --> 01:00:02.719 Ofer Shaal: and good luck to modules and and somehow bring more awareness. 611 01:00:02.870 --> 01:00:04.569 Ofer Shaal: So people know 612 01:00:05.390 --> 01:00:07.280 Ofer Shaal: that we can make it better. 613 01:00:09.150 --> 01:00:14.929 benji: Yeah. Scott posted a link. And I think the point is we we can see, at least in the prototype 614 01:00:15.720 --> 01:00:19.470 benji: just what modules are being suggested. 615 01:00:22.080 --> 01:00:23.370 benji: so what is that? 616 01:00:24.026 --> 01:00:25.319 benji: About 20. 617 01:00:26.250 --> 01:00:28.330 skaught: Including gin theme and gin toolbar. 618 01:00:28.830 --> 01:00:29.550 benji: Yes. 619 01:00:29.550 --> 01:00:34.980 skaught: Which is this is just the prototype. We don't know whose prototype this is. It's not necessarily a representation of what it would be. 620 01:00:38.080 --> 01:00:39.539 benji: I'll see an approximate 621 01:00:39.690 --> 01:00:44.950 benji: as our Adam opus heineck what, whatever his last name is. 622 01:00:45.578 --> 01:00:48.369 benji: We we know who who that is. 623 01:00:57.032 --> 01:00:57.910 skaught: You're running, actually. 624 01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:00.409 Simo Hellsten: Looking at this. 625 01:01:00.570 --> 01:01:04.879 Simo Hellsten: I actually need to look at usability of that smart date module. 626 01:01:05.350 --> 01:01:06.100 Simo Hellsten: for 627 01:01:06.400 --> 01:01:08.500 Simo Hellsten: on other reasons at least. 628 01:01:09.580 --> 01:01:10.742 benji: I'm sorry. What's. 629 01:01:11.130 --> 01:01:14.679 Simo Hellsten: That's smart, smart date. So I need to be looking at that 630 01:01:15.150 --> 01:01:16.880 Simo Hellsten: during the summer, at least 631 01:01:18.600 --> 01:01:20.720 Simo Hellsten: because I'm using it on a 632 01:01:20.840 --> 01:01:22.069 Simo Hellsten: project with 633 01:01:22.995 --> 01:01:24.810 Simo Hellsten: non technical users. 634 01:01:25.410 --> 01:01:26.630 benji: Okay? Got it? 635 01:01:30.730 --> 01:01:31.922 benji: Yeah, I think 636 01:01:32.500 --> 01:01:33.260 benji: ken. 637 01:01:35.730 --> 01:01:41.380 benji: Part of the idea, at least of starshot is to make core smaller and yet have 638 01:01:41.680 --> 01:01:46.770 benji: something richer that that that people can see to 639 01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:50.510 benji: get an idea of Tuple's actual capabilities. 640 01:01:51.560 --> 01:01:53.340 benji: And I I guess 641 01:01:54.110 --> 01:01:58.070 benji: if we were going to make core larger, I would 642 01:01:58.310 --> 01:02:01.210 benji: vote for path auto as being in core. 643 01:02:01.230 --> 01:02:04.610 benji: I'm not sure I would recommend any of these other 644 01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:06.890 benji: but modules. 645 01:02:06.900 --> 01:02:07.880 skaught: Definitely be cool. 646 01:02:08.650 --> 01:02:09.540 benji: I'm sorry. 647 01:02:09.540 --> 01:02:10.799 skaught: Meta tag should be core. 648 01:02:11.320 --> 01:02:12.010 benji: Exactly. 649 01:02:12.010 --> 01:02:14.140 skaught: 100% for Meta tech to be correlated anytime. 650 01:02:14.540 --> 01:02:16.399 benji: Okay, that's that's that's reasonable. 651 01:02:17.010 --> 01:02:18.359 benji: Web form is 652 01:02:19.930 --> 01:02:24.289 benji: more complicated than I'd want to add to core. It's core, says. 653 01:02:24.290 --> 01:02:28.670 skaught: We should have a form builder for general use. Case, of course, should have a form builder. 654 01:02:31.540 --> 01:02:33.800 skaught: We have views as a query builder. 655 01:02:34.410 --> 01:02:36.829 skaught: We have nodes for building lands. 656 01:02:37.160 --> 01:02:39.200 skaught: Building is what triple does. Of course 657 01:02:39.800 --> 01:02:41.770 skaught: it's inevitable. I think webform's inevitable. 658 01:02:42.660 --> 01:02:43.350 benji: Okay. 659 01:02:43.620 --> 01:02:44.759 skaught: I hope it's but. 660 01:02:45.040 --> 01:02:52.169 benji: But but but I guess the point of star shot is that we no longer have to talk about bringing these into core. We can bring them to starshot. 661 01:02:52.420 --> 01:02:55.389 benji: But we just have one more minute left, and Aaron has something to say. 662 01:02:55.860 --> 01:02:58.610 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I guess it was just kind of that was in that like 663 01:02:58.810 --> 01:03:02.509 Aaron McHale: and saying, like, this kind of blards the lines between core and trip. Because 664 01:03:02.930 --> 01:03:05.729 Aaron McHale: I think it. It seems like driver core. 665 01:03:05.740 --> 01:03:33.710 Aaron McHale: The idea, is it? It could get to a point where it is. It is just like the core Apis and things. And maybe some, you know, very fundamental modules, like drupal core, has been moving towards is like building block modules. Whether it's, you know, work, flow, or or other things like that. Trying to make a good examples. Workflow is a good one, because, like it's a module that other things build on top of like, whether it's content, moderation, or sure. There's other examples that use workflow. So 666 01:03:33.710 --> 01:03:42.439 Aaron McHale: you know, with recipes and project browser. There's, you know, there's no longer this really clear divide. This is core. This is contrived. It's it's more about. 667 01:03:42.470 --> 01:03:48.410 Aaron McHale: I think we can start to really think about like, what are the features that are needed and where those live 668 01:03:48.580 --> 01:04:14.020 Aaron McHale: it is less important because and arguably, when they live in good trip in their own project space. They're able to iterate faster, which I think is a good thing. And it gives them their own like freedom and and modules like, you know, for forum and blog and and vote and things can't remember what was a corona poll, I think, was always like, if our can like. Now they're in contrabbed, they can iterate faster and it and and build up their own smaller community that really cares about those things. 669 01:04:14.355 --> 01:04:16.629 Aaron McHale: And can really focus on those. So 670 01:04:16.710 --> 01:04:30.061 Aaron McHale: so yeah, I, I think it's a good thing. But I think we we need to shift or like how we think about these things to being less about. This is quarter second, Trev, and think, this is a feature in the drupal ecosystem, and this is the thing that we we all use. So 671 01:04:30.540 --> 01:04:32.920 Aaron McHale: that will be an interesting shift for sure. 672 01:04:34.220 --> 01:04:37.330 benji: Okay, Ralph, we're already minute over. So very quickly. 673 01:04:37.330 --> 01:04:48.190 Ralf Koller: Yeah, quickly. Agree to Aaron. And just one brief addition and suggestion for maybe next week or the following to talk about the whole extend page 674 01:04:48.580 --> 01:05:05.039 Ralf Koller: with basically recipes how they are communicated to installing uninstall recipes, the extent itself, with the list of modules as well as the feature flag modules. There are many new aspects coming into core, and then also project 675 01:05:05.420 --> 01:05:11.729 Ralf Koller: Project Browser in the context of it, the install and the install of recipe that. Yeah, the whole extent 676 01:05:12.270 --> 01:05:14.990 Ralf Koller: topic should be discussed, I think 677 01:05:15.010 --> 01:05:19.390 Ralf Koller: because they are moving fast. And yeah, to prevent some basically 678 01:05:20.636 --> 01:05:22.110 Ralf Koller: problematic directions. 679 01:05:22.680 --> 01:05:28.409 benji: Right, and if they're developed and contrib and then brought into core, then we have to be a little proactive about. 680 01:05:28.690 --> 01:05:29.440 Ralf Koller: Yeps. 681 01:05:30.100 --> 01:05:36.840 benji: Looking at their usability. Okay, thanks all. Yeah, we'll definitely be continuing these discussions. 682 01:05:39.240 --> 01:05:44.000 benji: quickly offer us, did we look at recipes in the ux meeting. Not yet. Alright. 683 01:05:44.980 --> 01:05:47.939 benji: I agree with what Rob's put answered in the comments. 684 01:05:48.902 --> 01:05:53.089 benji: So I'll be here next week. Hope you can all make it too. 685 01:05:54.830 --> 01:05:55.520 skaught: Thanks, all. 686 01:06:01.430 --> 01:06:03.779 benji: Aaron, I'm afraid I'm going to leave you with your hand up.