WEBVTT 37 00:08:33.020 --> 00:08:37.720 benji: welcome. This is the Google Usability meeting for May 31, st 2024. 38 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:47.249 benji: I'm Benji Fisher sharing my screen and moderating, and also present, are also Ralph Kohler, Simo Helston, and Scott. 39 00:08:52.670 --> 00:08:55.779 benji: So there's this old issue. 40 00:08:55.930 --> 00:08:59.720 benji: It's number 2 6, 7, 1, 1 6, 2, 41 00:09:00.050 --> 00:09:05.390 benji: originally from 2,016. And it's had some tension recently. 42 00:09:06.514 --> 00:09:10.960 benji: Let's use text editor or summary of a text. Field 43 00:09:12.654 --> 00:09:17.470 benji: somebody's part of the text form, you should have a whizzy link added here. 44 00:09:17.700 --> 00:09:20.639 benji: The format applies to body and submarine. 45 00:09:22.634 --> 00:09:25.369 benji: The proposed resolution is 46 00:09:25.770 --> 00:09:29.880 benji: not very specific. Lockdown the format for summary in the Widget 47 00:09:29.970 --> 00:09:31.069 benji: question. Mark. 48 00:09:32.170 --> 00:09:33.020 benji: Oh, 49 00:09:34.010 --> 00:09:38.820 benji: Seeing chat that my audio is stored it let me adjust my microphone. 50 00:09:46.630 --> 00:09:47.680 benji: Does that help. 51 00:09:49.540 --> 00:09:50.739 Ralf Koller: Yep, much better. 52 00:09:51.280 --> 00:09:52.250 Ralf Koller: But thank you. 53 00:09:53.280 --> 00:09:54.590 benji: Thanks for pointing it out. 54 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:01.810 benji: so let's see. 55 00:10:04.070 --> 00:10:06.870 benji: here, I have a 56 00:10:07.230 --> 00:10:14.430 benji: plain drupal 11 site with the mommy demo profile, experimental navigation module enabled. 57 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.319 benji: And let's just check 58 00:10:21.220 --> 00:10:23.930 benji: Say, the article content type. 59 00:10:26.630 --> 00:10:29.070 benji: enter, manage, form, display. 60 00:10:31.330 --> 00:10:34.459 benji: Bobby uses text area with the summary. 61 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:35.960 benji: Okay, I think that's 62 00:10:36.140 --> 00:10:37.369 benji: what they want. 63 00:10:38.470 --> 00:10:39.649 benji: So let's 64 00:10:42.300 --> 00:10:43.710 benji: add an article. 65 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:50.040 benji: Here's the body. Field 66 00:10:51.980 --> 00:10:52.650 benji: quotes 67 00:10:53.180 --> 00:10:54.270 benji: text 68 00:10:56.020 --> 00:10:57.170 benji: we're 69 00:10:58.490 --> 00:10:59.740 benji: using. 70 00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:02.599 benji: and attorneys. 71 00:11:04.367 --> 00:11:10.250 benji: If I want to tell us, I see, editor, I have achieved button to do that. 72 00:11:24.390 --> 00:11:25.060 benji: yep. 73 00:11:26.550 --> 00:11:29.009 benji: subtitle before I can say. 74 00:11:30.050 --> 00:11:34.359 benji: and sure enough, see that here it comes out. Italics as expected 75 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:36.130 benji: lose. 76 00:11:36.740 --> 00:11:39.550 benji: However, if I click on edit summary. 77 00:11:43.900 --> 00:11:47.559 benji: it's just a plain text box, and 78 00:11:48.900 --> 00:11:50.290 benji: if I want 79 00:11:50.710 --> 00:11:54.870 benji: emphasize something I'd have to type in the actual HTML tags. 80 00:12:09.380 --> 00:12:13.130 benji: And I guess that won't show up when I save it. 81 00:12:13.816 --> 00:12:15.169 benji: But maybe 82 00:12:15.620 --> 00:12:18.460 benji: if there's a few listing articles 83 00:12:19.560 --> 00:12:21.840 benji: it'll probably show up there 84 00:12:23.020 --> 00:12:24.159 benji: all out. 85 00:12:24.610 --> 00:12:26.800 benji: I think maybe that's not worth 86 00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:30.320 benji: demonstrating. Everyone's 87 00:12:30.870 --> 00:12:35.115 benji: familiar with. These options, I think, Ralph, go ahead. 88 00:12:37.382 --> 00:12:41.079 Ralf Koller: Just one note if this issue is 89 00:12:41.970 --> 00:12:49.919 Ralf Koller: still relevant at all, because, as far as I understand, it is planned to deprecate text with summary. 90 00:12:51.180 --> 00:12:52.260 Ralf Koller: so 91 00:12:52.810 --> 00:12:54.080 Ralf Koller: I'm not sure. 92 00:12:54.260 --> 00:12:57.079 skaught: There's use cases for it remaining right? 93 00:12:59.350 --> 00:13:00.110 Ralf Koller: Not true. 94 00:13:00.560 --> 00:13:03.920 Ralf Koller: from my understanding. Summaries should be gone 95 00:13:04.040 --> 00:13:06.130 Ralf Koller: completely or removed completely. 96 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:07.460 Ralf Koller: But I'm not sure 97 00:13:08.910 --> 00:13:10.729 Ralf Koller: just wanted to raise the point. 98 00:13:10.730 --> 00:13:18.190 skaught: I know there's an issue that's kicking around about making body and summary not required on a node. But that's slightly different, too. 99 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:19.560 Ralf Koller: Yep. 100 00:13:22.930 --> 00:13:28.109 skaught: I think, move forward with the fact that they want to look at the ticket. You know the nature of the ticket. 101 00:13:28.470 --> 00:13:29.220 skaught: Nope. 102 00:13:35.400 --> 00:13:40.575 benji: Yeah. So if if someone wants to in the background search for an issue, 103 00:13:42.390 --> 00:13:43.410 benji: then 104 00:13:44.010 --> 00:13:47.269 benji: we can at least mention that on the issue we're looking at. 105 00:13:59.020 --> 00:14:02.050 benji: I think it's already added as as a related issue. 106 00:14:10.400 --> 00:14:12.620 benji: deprecate text with summary 107 00:14:17.540 --> 00:14:23.730 benji: This appears to already have supported framework and product managers, but need to plan out how best to go about it. 108 00:14:31.650 --> 00:14:33.010 benji: So 109 00:14:33.370 --> 00:14:38.820 benji: this was created just a few months ago and updated about a week ago. 110 00:14:42.130 --> 00:14:45.489 benji: so so people are actively working on this. 111 00:14:55.470 --> 00:14:58.479 skaught: I'm sorry I'm looking at. Number 11 is what I'm actually talking about. 112 00:14:59.250 --> 00:15:00.000 skaught: I think. 113 00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:13.089 benji: Yeah. 1st of all, I should say for the sake of the recording, the issue I'm looking at is 3, 4, 2, 7, 0 9 5. And this is the issue that Ralph was referring to Meta. Deprecate text with Summary 114 00:15:13.230 --> 00:15:14.740 benji: and Scott. You were looking at 115 00:15:15.190 --> 00:15:17.199 benji: 11 comments, 11. 116 00:15:17.468 --> 00:15:22.310 skaught: No, on this issue has comment. 11 has the link to the issue that I was talking about. 117 00:15:31.380 --> 00:15:36.690 benji: slack. We discussed how the automatic body functionality needs to be removed in star shot. 118 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:41.820 benji: That's issue 3, 4, 4, 119 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:44.019 benji: 7, 6, 1 7 120 00:15:45.408 --> 00:15:49.669 benji: stop automatic storage, creation of body shield. 121 00:15:50.790 --> 00:15:53.089 benji: and, Ralph, you've commented on this one. 122 00:15:54.278 --> 00:15:55.990 Ralf Koller: Yep. I remember now. 123 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:59.890 Ralf Koller: it's about basically also the install profile. 124 00:16:00.550 --> 00:16:04.080 Ralf Koller: The standard, for example, is also creating 125 00:16:04.170 --> 00:16:05.949 Ralf Koller: at the moment the body field. 126 00:16:06.090 --> 00:16:09.350 Ralf Koller: and that was also the idea to prevent that 127 00:16:09.810 --> 00:16:12.060 Ralf Koller: for content types as well as block types. 128 00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:20.409 benji: And this is a child issue of of the one we were just looking at. 129 00:16:21.270 --> 00:16:22.410 benji: so 130 00:16:22.550 --> 00:16:24.329 benji: part of the same effort. 131 00:16:30.670 --> 00:16:31.770 benji: so 132 00:16:33.710 --> 00:16:35.220 benji: what do you think this 133 00:16:35.920 --> 00:16:39.499 benji: this Meta issue seems to have some momentum behind it? 134 00:16:39.920 --> 00:16:42.589 benji: Shall we assume that it's 135 00:16:43.030 --> 00:16:44.560 benji: is likely to 136 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:49.969 benji: happen? And and it's not worth spending effort on on the other one when we started with 137 00:16:50.852 --> 00:16:55.839 benji: And Semo gives us another link in the chat. Another related issue. We have discussed 138 00:16:56.340 --> 00:16:59.380 benji: edit, summary labels unclear to users. 139 00:17:03.740 --> 00:17:04.700 benji: and 140 00:17:05.060 --> 00:17:07.569 benji: this would also become obsolete if 141 00:17:07.760 --> 00:17:09.909 benji: the text with summary 142 00:17:10.950 --> 00:17:19.489 benji: field is removed. So this is issue 1, 5, 6, 2, 7, 7, 6. That means it's even older. 2,012 143 00:17:22.710 --> 00:17:26.970 benji: saying that the the label is unclear. So 144 00:17:30.120 --> 00:17:31.350 benji: that's right. I 145 00:17:31.410 --> 00:17:34.559 benji: I think we've actually looked at this fairly recently, haven't we? 146 00:17:34.890 --> 00:17:39.590 benji: That having a link here rather than a details element, is 147 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.800 benji: just archaic? 148 00:17:44.012 --> 00:17:48.169 benji: So I guess that's 1 of many problems. And 149 00:17:49.170 --> 00:17:53.273 benji: you know also, from my experience in site building. 150 00:17:55.800 --> 00:17:59.119 benji: many people seem unaware of the. 151 00:17:59.280 --> 00:18:01.910 benji: you know the summary part of the 152 00:18:02.840 --> 00:18:05.900 benji: text with summary field, and 153 00:18:06.050 --> 00:18:08.409 benji: they frequently add a second. 154 00:18:08.770 --> 00:18:12.500 benji: a separate field, a separate text field when they want a summary 155 00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:21.809 benji: and I guess that would be the standard way to do do it going forward. If if we do 156 00:18:22.660 --> 00:18:24.440 benji: deprecate this. 157 00:18:25.250 --> 00:18:30.950 benji: so is this worth talking about at all? Or shall we look for something else. 158 00:18:31.660 --> 00:18:33.760 benji: or or shall we 159 00:18:33.820 --> 00:18:34.950 benji: try to 160 00:18:35.970 --> 00:18:40.169 benji: see if we can make some and incremental improvements in this before it goes away? 161 00:18:45.460 --> 00:18:52.269 skaught: Or is there a question on that? It's going away, or just getting removed from a default install of what will be available in the future? 162 00:18:54.902 --> 00:18:56.550 benji: So the meta issue 163 00:18:56.770 --> 00:18:58.619 benji: is to deprecate 164 00:19:00.360 --> 00:19:01.570 benji: the field type. 165 00:19:02.816 --> 00:19:09.960 benji: And if that happens, it will be deprecated, perhaps deprecated in drupal 11, and removed in drupal. 12. 166 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:10.510 skaught: Okay. 167 00:19:11.180 --> 00:19:17.129 benji: But 1110 and 11 are going to be with us for several more years, so I guess 168 00:19:18.040 --> 00:19:24.499 benji: my personal answer to the question I just asked is that yes, if it's going to be around for for years? 169 00:19:24.950 --> 00:19:29.039 benji: Then it is worth improving what we have before it goes away. 170 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:32.040 benji: But that's just my opinion. Go ahead. 171 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:33.040 skaught: King. 172 00:19:34.490 --> 00:19:50.590 skaught: My only other thought is the reason you were talking about the reason that people add another field onto nodes is that they get confused. Sites get set up strangely, and they need some place to put a Meta tag description, and people use that field for tokens because they don't know how to use the summary field correctly. 173 00:19:56.740 --> 00:19:57.390 benji: Huh? 174 00:19:57.940 --> 00:19:59.179 benji: You're saying. 175 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:14.929 skaught: Right. PE people set up a a site. Use like, remove the page or no install a field that uses like paragraphs for creating layouts or inline other in line options, and they'll have a body and not use it. 176 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:28.859 skaught: And sometimes they may have a body for summary and use views where they get the Teaser view, and that's the wrong view. So then they add in one more field for another summary, and that's the meta tag description, and that kind of stuff. 177 00:20:29.610 --> 00:20:30.700 benji: Oh, you're huge! 178 00:20:30.700 --> 00:20:40.186 skaught: Why we have text summary, and what people understand how to use it, and what views will do with it out of the box and tokens will do with it. Right? Yeah, yeah. It's all up. The big mess. 179 00:20:41.080 --> 00:20:46.735 benji: Right. So so this is it. If you have it, it's it's an appropriate place to put us 180 00:20:47.120 --> 00:20:50.964 benji: the summary that you want to use as the description by the tech. 181 00:20:51.780 --> 00:20:53.849 benji: Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense. 182 00:20:54.860 --> 00:20:58.600 benji: People don't realize it's there, and you know it. 183 00:21:01.150 --> 00:21:05.129 benji: In in some sense. I I prefer simpler 184 00:21:06.305 --> 00:21:10.050 benji: design! And I'd I'd rather have people 185 00:21:10.410 --> 00:21:15.610 benji: adding fields for for that purpose rather than have this 2 part field 186 00:21:17.659 --> 00:21:18.489 benji: which. 187 00:21:18.490 --> 00:21:19.740 skaught: Gold propagates. 188 00:21:19.810 --> 00:21:26.380 skaught: I think the goal of this existing ticket is good or worth some worth itself, right in the use case that 189 00:21:26.630 --> 00:21:28.830 skaught: people have this field on their site. 190 00:21:30.850 --> 00:21:45.590 skaught: until you're right. Even if core deprecates it, people will need it will need to go to contribute somehow, because existing sites are gonna carry it right? So the use case where a content editor actually wants be able to have a teaser from this summary and have it have HTML in it 191 00:21:45.610 --> 00:21:47.650 skaught: having a whizzy big one. It makes sense. 192 00:21:48.760 --> 00:21:51.439 skaught: So it's worth continuing in that respect. 193 00:21:51.610 --> 00:21:54.340 skaught: even if it's deprecated, will move out to contribute that way. 194 00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:59.650 benji: Okay. So so you and I agree on that and any other opinions. 195 00:22:02.260 --> 00:22:07.320 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I I think it makes sense, because it's going to be around. And also 196 00:22:08.260 --> 00:22:09.950 Simo Hellsten: it makes sense to 197 00:22:10.360 --> 00:22:12.109 Simo Hellsten: have it working 198 00:22:13.413 --> 00:22:18.229 Simo Hellsten: because it. It will need some kind of migration and stuff like that in a way. So 199 00:22:19.150 --> 00:22:21.529 Simo Hellsten: it's probably going to be a contrib 200 00:22:22.320 --> 00:22:23.580 Simo Hellsten: at least first.st 201 00:22:25.270 --> 00:22:26.852 benji: Okay, so let's 202 00:22:27.420 --> 00:22:29.650 benji: go back to 203 00:22:33.780 --> 00:22:37.470 benji: say I'm going to close these issues related to 204 00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:39.409 benji: removing the field. 205 00:22:47.860 --> 00:22:50.390 benji: don't suppose anyone has a 206 00:22:50.620 --> 00:22:54.290 benji: installed copy of Triple, using the patch. Yet 207 00:22:55.410 --> 00:23:01.950 benji: we have the screenshots. So yes, this looks a lot like what I was seeing. 208 00:23:02.900 --> 00:23:04.110 benji: and 209 00:23:04.870 --> 00:23:07.589 benji: after the patch. We have the same 210 00:23:08.590 --> 00:23:12.899 benji: wizzy wig toolbar on both summary and body. 211 00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:20.260 benji: screenshot looks good to me. 212 00:23:21.140 --> 00:23:22.440 benji: So 213 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:29.089 benji: why was this tagged for usability? Review? 214 00:23:42.800 --> 00:23:48.259 benji: So Stephen must grave, added that tag couple of months ago. 215 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:56.519 benji: says tagging for usability, my only concern is this, feels odd. You essentially have 2 full text fields now. 216 00:23:56.560 --> 00:23:58.859 benji: So why not add 2 fields? 217 00:23:59.510 --> 00:24:01.750 benji: But we'll leave for usability. 218 00:24:18.070 --> 00:24:21.490 benji: so any reactions to that that it feels odd. 219 00:24:22.820 --> 00:24:28.199 skaught: I think he's saying that for the same reason that we were talking about that somebody would add on another field and just use that field. 220 00:24:30.140 --> 00:24:37.890 skaught: but it. But the thing that it does do is that for a lot of content editing situations where they might have short teasers 221 00:24:37.910 --> 00:24:41.530 skaught: across the site. They might want HTML in it, so. 222 00:24:43.490 --> 00:24:45.500 benji: Yeah, I think I agree, go ahead alter. 223 00:24:46.170 --> 00:24:50.410 Ofer Shaal: Yeah, I I think it's kind of a remind me of the multi field idea. 224 00:24:50.510 --> 00:24:53.149 Ofer Shaal: but the only one that behave like that 225 00:24:54.410 --> 00:24:58.520 Ofer Shaal: where it's 1 field, but it actually has multiple parts. 226 00:25:01.250 --> 00:25:02.409 benji: E. Yes. 227 00:25:03.490 --> 00:25:05.129 benji: So this is 228 00:25:05.970 --> 00:25:07.940 benji: probably the only 229 00:25:08.250 --> 00:25:11.230 benji: field like that in Tuple Core, where it's it's 230 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:13.840 benji: sort of like 2 fields pasted together. 231 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:16.250 benji: Go ahead, Simo. 232 00:25:17.810 --> 00:25:24.620 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I think, that one of the important points here is for lazy people who don't want to edit the summary 233 00:25:24.700 --> 00:25:30.550 Simo Hellsten: that it has options. Either you can feel it or it can. It can crop the 1st part 234 00:25:30.630 --> 00:25:33.550 Simo Hellsten: and use that as summary. So it's just kind of this 235 00:25:33.580 --> 00:25:36.429 Simo Hellsten: 2 options, and that makes it 236 00:25:36.930 --> 00:25:38.190 Simo Hellsten: good for 237 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:41.460 Simo Hellsten: like for people who have sites, but 238 00:25:41.540 --> 00:25:45.080 Simo Hellsten: don't have so much time to focus on the content 239 00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:46.339 Simo Hellsten: at that level. 240 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:49.819 Simo Hellsten: So it kind of provides some level of automation. 241 00:25:51.600 --> 00:25:53.229 Simo Hellsten: from the screenshots. 242 00:25:53.310 --> 00:25:57.190 Simo Hellsten: What I saw thus is that it's a little bit confusing to have 243 00:25:57.727 --> 00:26:00.709 Simo Hellsten: one Ck editor with option, 2 244 00:26:01.020 --> 00:26:02.969 Simo Hellsten: select format 245 00:26:03.670 --> 00:26:06.220 Simo Hellsten: and the other one without. 246 00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:09.210 Simo Hellsten: So it doesn't support. Use case where 247 00:26:09.450 --> 00:26:12.780 Simo Hellsten: body text can have full HTML, and 248 00:26:14.560 --> 00:26:16.760 Simo Hellsten: that summary filtered 249 00:26:17.780 --> 00:26:18.960 Simo Hellsten: HTML. 250 00:26:20.750 --> 00:26:23.270 benji: Is, is that possible? Is it? 251 00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:28.579 benji: From the comments I got the impression that whatever text format you select 252 00:26:28.690 --> 00:26:30.929 benji: for the field is applied to both. 253 00:26:33.830 --> 00:26:34.770 benji: so. 254 00:26:35.050 --> 00:26:37.310 Simo Hellsten: And so is that a technical restriction. 255 00:26:38.912 --> 00:26:47.479 benji: I I believe so, or or changing it would be out of scope for this issue if if my, if the comments are correct. 256 00:26:49.070 --> 00:26:50.099 benji: go ahead, Ralph. 257 00:26:51.713 --> 00:26:54.396 Ralf Koller: I've posted a link in the chat 258 00:26:55.660 --> 00:26:57.149 Ralf Koller: with the patch applied 259 00:26:58.280 --> 00:27:02.989 Ralf Koller: so you can give it a try. And, on the other hand 260 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:05.949 Ralf Koller: in regard of Stevens 261 00:27:05.990 --> 00:27:07.180 Ralf Koller: points 262 00:27:07.470 --> 00:27:11.496 Ralf Koller: that it looks like basically 2 separate fields. 263 00:27:12.510 --> 00:27:17.090 Ralf Koller: I sort of agree that. Yeah, I think we already raised the 264 00:27:17.220 --> 00:27:19.310 Ralf Koller: oh, one second 265 00:27:19.810 --> 00:27:21.000 Ralf Koller: I thought. 266 00:27:23.330 --> 00:27:25.590 Ralf Koller: It is admin admin. Oh. 267 00:27:25.610 --> 00:27:27.709 Ralf Koller: I won't say I've changed it 268 00:27:28.090 --> 00:27:29.180 Ralf Koller: for the 269 00:27:33.030 --> 00:27:35.116 Ralf Koller: 2 person. 270 00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:36.990 benji: Just say. 271 00:27:37.530 --> 00:27:40.392 benji: yeah, I I agree. I I think, that. 272 00:27:40.760 --> 00:27:44.520 benji: the the comment. It's not any more odd 273 00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:46.679 benji: to to have 274 00:27:47.610 --> 00:27:49.540 benji: 2 fields then that 275 00:27:49.940 --> 00:27:51.380 benji: 2 fields with it 276 00:27:51.660 --> 00:28:01.170 benji: a text editor, than to have 2 fields. So I I think the oddness is the structure of the field itself, and not the fact that we're providing a text editor for it. 277 00:28:01.470 --> 00:28:03.039 benji: But go ahead, Ralph. 278 00:28:03.530 --> 00:28:06.519 Ralf Koller: Yeah. Oh, it's mainly the. 279 00:28:06.790 --> 00:28:15.080 Ralf Koller: It's not directly apparent that those 2 fields belong together on it from a visual is from a visual standpoint. 280 00:28:16.330 --> 00:28:17.370 Ralf Koller: If you 281 00:28:17.760 --> 00:28:19.799 Ralf Koller: simply click the edit summary. 282 00:28:19.910 --> 00:28:20.830 Ralf Koller: then 283 00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:23.579 Ralf Koller: yeah, looks just like 2. 284 00:28:24.570 --> 00:28:27.400 Ralf Koller: We see wik fields seek Editor Fields. And yeah. 285 00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:33.239 benji: With as who who was it? What, Simo, I think, pointed out that 286 00:28:33.360 --> 00:28:41.789 benji: there, there's only one basic HTML, again, I think that's not made any worse by adding, Ck, editor, that's 287 00:28:42.199 --> 00:28:45.959 benji: so I I would call that out of scope for the current issue. 288 00:28:46.585 --> 00:28:53.384 benji: It's more related to the other issue. That I think Sima reminded us of that. 289 00:28:54.250 --> 00:28:57.829 benji: The edit summary link is is unclear. 290 00:28:59.368 --> 00:29:02.059 Ralf Koller: And in regards oops of that. 291 00:29:03.550 --> 00:29:08.689 Ralf Koller: And it's summary link. It's basically a problem 292 00:29:09.750 --> 00:29:17.319 Ralf Koller: that was surfaced also in the context of toggle buttons. And it's basically a toggle button and having 293 00:29:17.510 --> 00:29:21.330 Ralf Koller: 2 different labels is problematic for screen reader users, meaning. 294 00:29:21.670 --> 00:29:31.949 Ralf Koller: if you're on hide summary, what is your current state. And if you're on show summary, what is your current set? Is it shown? Is it not shown? And a screen really user without the visual context. 295 00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:37.979 Ralf Koller: good struggle and having one for screen readers, one label 296 00:29:38.710 --> 00:29:40.940 Ralf Koller: across states and 297 00:29:41.190 --> 00:29:47.219 Ralf Koller: you have them basically show summary, active or selected. And then 298 00:29:48.171 --> 00:29:53.509 Ralf Koller: in case it's not active or selected. Then that state is missing. It's 299 00:29:53.610 --> 00:29:56.029 Ralf Koller: way more clear and easier. 300 00:29:56.300 --> 00:29:57.440 Ralf Koller: And 301 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:02.039 Ralf Koller: yeah, they could be simply used an aria label in that context. 302 00:30:02.220 --> 00:30:07.420 Ralf Koller: and to use the identical label for both dates, for screenwrit users 303 00:30:07.620 --> 00:30:09.550 Ralf Koller: would be maybe 304 00:30:10.717 --> 00:30:12.359 Ralf Koller: a reasonable choice. 305 00:30:13.310 --> 00:30:19.179 benji: Okay. But, Ralph, I I still think that all of those comments are more applicable to this issue. 306 00:30:20.173 --> 00:30:20.580 Ralf Koller: Okay. 307 00:30:20.580 --> 00:30:23.091 benji: Simo just mentioned in the chat. 308 00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:30.289 benji: that we we suggested here to wrap the summary in the full text in a field set, which comment was that. 309 00:30:36.080 --> 00:30:37.899 Simo Hellsten: I think after that one, maybe 310 00:30:38.280 --> 00:30:39.580 Simo Hellsten: college number 311 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:43.350 Simo Hellsten: 26. 312 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:44.850 benji: Okay. 313 00:30:46.330 --> 00:30:55.850 benji: perhaps summary in full text into a field set. So so yeah, I I think, though, those are, of course, valid points. But but out of scope for for the current issue current issue is just 314 00:30:56.830 --> 00:30:57.610 benji: yeah. 315 00:30:57.830 --> 00:31:00.850 benji: It's not about changing the 316 00:31:01.370 --> 00:31:07.169 benji: label or visual indication of the relation between the 2 fields. 317 00:31:07.629 --> 00:31:10.509 benji: It's just about when you do open the summary. 318 00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:16.080 benji: providing the the whizzy wig editor for it. 319 00:31:26.750 --> 00:31:27.880 benji: and 320 00:31:28.130 --> 00:31:29.110 benji: Youtube 321 00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:31.799 benji: agree. Disagree. 322 00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:40.589 benji: not hearing any any comments? 323 00:31:42.890 --> 00:31:46.410 benji: so yeah, as as far as I'm concerned. 324 00:31:48.530 --> 00:31:51.339 benji: this is more usable than 325 00:31:53.980 --> 00:31:55.709 benji: than the current status 326 00:31:55.850 --> 00:31:56.930 benji: that. 327 00:31:57.860 --> 00:32:02.220 benji: having the wizzy wig editor in the summary field is better than not having it. 328 00:32:07.308 --> 00:32:10.310 benji: Oh, I see some some more comments. 329 00:32:11.020 --> 00:32:12.530 benji: Scott 330 00:32:13.910 --> 00:32:18.129 benji: and Ralph breathe. That putting them in the fieldset is a good idea. 331 00:32:18.460 --> 00:32:25.269 benji: It would provide a panel inset to separate and make them feel more together. But another issue? Okay, I think. 332 00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.529 benji: I think we all agree on that. Then 333 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:40.390 Simo Hellsten: So. 334 00:32:41.370 --> 00:32:41.936 benji: Go ahead. 335 00:32:42.390 --> 00:32:43.510 Simo Hellsten: This version 336 00:32:45.020 --> 00:32:47.180 Simo Hellsten: doesn't allow setting 337 00:32:47.610 --> 00:32:50.259 Simo Hellsten: or selecting whether or not to display that 338 00:32:51.300 --> 00:32:58.589 Simo Hellsten: Ck editor on the summary. So it's either or so with this. It's automatic to have Ck. Editor. 339 00:33:01.170 --> 00:33:08.170 benji: I believe so. But let's let's do a little experimentation. I assume that in the form settings 340 00:33:08.740 --> 00:33:12.190 benji: no in in the in the text editor settings. 341 00:33:13.368 --> 00:33:19.640 benji: We can choose to enable seek editor or not, and I assume it will apply to both. 342 00:33:20.140 --> 00:33:21.440 benji: But let's just 343 00:33:21.650 --> 00:33:23.040 benji: confirm that 344 00:33:24.035 --> 00:33:27.730 benji: content, authoring X. Format and editors. 345 00:33:34.560 --> 00:33:35.900 benji: So if we. 346 00:33:35.940 --> 00:33:42.499 benji: for example, change the text format to restricted HTML or plain text. 347 00:33:42.870 --> 00:33:45.530 benji: then it should go away on both of them. 348 00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:50.700 benji: And it does. 349 00:33:57.010 --> 00:33:59.969 benji: if it's basic, or if it's fold. 350 00:34:02.540 --> 00:34:05.220 benji: let me get the editor in both of them. 351 00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:08.469 benji: So 352 00:34:10.250 --> 00:34:13.389 benji: so yeah, same same text format applies to both. 353 00:34:16.179 --> 00:34:17.120 benji: which. 354 00:34:17.429 --> 00:34:21.290 benji: thinking about it a little bit, I I think, is probably a good thing. 355 00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.119 benji: Scott has to drop 356 00:34:26.330 --> 00:34:28.000 benji: offer as well. 357 00:34:28.469 --> 00:34:30.200 benji: so it's down to 3 of us. 358 00:34:38.139 --> 00:34:40.530 benji: any further comments on this? I'm 359 00:34:41.050 --> 00:34:43.090 benji: I'm ready to leave a comment on it 360 00:34:44.340 --> 00:34:45.940 benji: and and basically 361 00:34:45.989 --> 00:34:48.379 benji: give a thumbs up to the current. Approach. 362 00:34:50.406 --> 00:34:51.239 benji: Go ahead. 363 00:34:52.487 --> 00:34:55.269 Ralf Koller: I agree in general, a thumbs up, but 364 00:34:55.489 --> 00:34:59.779 Ralf Koller: my only in air quotes problem is 365 00:35:00.759 --> 00:35:02.729 Ralf Koller: in case that 366 00:35:03.622 --> 00:35:07.419 Ralf Koller: body with some text with summary 367 00:35:07.569 --> 00:35:10.229 Ralf Koller: field gets deprecated 368 00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:11.419 Ralf Koller: up. 369 00:35:12.628 --> 00:35:16.609 Ralf Koller: I'm not sure why it should still 370 00:35:16.619 --> 00:35:18.289 Ralf Koller: be kept on 371 00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:24.149 Ralf Koller: working on it, or or will that deprecated field be moved into contrip. 372 00:35:24.739 --> 00:35:26.819 Ralf Koller: And that way it would be still 373 00:35:26.959 --> 00:35:29.659 Ralf Koller: be used? Or or is it just dropped 374 00:35:29.829 --> 00:35:31.229 Ralf Koller: at 1 point? Because 375 00:35:32.279 --> 00:35:39.169 Ralf Koller: the idea should be basically that people are upgrading to the latest version of drupal. And 376 00:35:39.449 --> 00:35:42.349 Ralf Koller: if you basically keep on 377 00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:47.249 Ralf Koller: adding new functionality and improving duplicated 378 00:35:47.889 --> 00:35:50.989 Ralf Koller: or soon to be duplicated 379 00:35:51.369 --> 00:35:52.469 Ralf Koller: functions. 380 00:35:52.759 --> 00:35:53.849 Ralf Koller: I'm not sure 381 00:35:55.419 --> 00:35:58.699 Ralf Koller: that is my only worry. I have. 382 00:35:59.860 --> 00:36:05.569 benji: Yeah. And I, I would certainly address that in the comment. And that's what we talked about at the start. 383 00:36:05.850 --> 00:36:06.940 benji: So 384 00:36:09.750 --> 00:36:11.880 benji: assuming that that 385 00:36:12.590 --> 00:36:15.979 benji: the the issue to deprecate is is successful. 386 00:36:17.077 --> 00:36:18.599 benji: It will still 387 00:36:19.120 --> 00:36:20.240 benji: be 388 00:36:20.510 --> 00:36:26.110 benji: available in drupal 10 and drupal 11 deprecated in drupal 11. 389 00:36:26.130 --> 00:36:30.620 benji: Even drupal 10 is going to be with us for several more years. 390 00:36:32.530 --> 00:36:38.899 benji: So we we have an issue where work has already been done. It's seems to be functional. 391 00:36:41.930 --> 00:36:50.129 benji: So so the work is already done. It will have an effect for several years. I I think that's a good enough reason to go ahead with it. 392 00:36:50.770 --> 00:36:56.720 Ralf Koller: Okay. True. Yeah. From that point of view. If if it isn't that much of work and more discussions 393 00:36:58.379 --> 00:37:02.989 Ralf Koller: have to happen, then I agree it would be good. But I'm just my 394 00:37:03.080 --> 00:37:11.120 Ralf Koller: my worry is that more details? Come up, it will, and and more and more work is required. But yeah. 395 00:37:13.450 --> 00:37:17.230 Ralf Koller: if it could go in as is, then this would be fine. 396 00:37:18.140 --> 00:37:22.900 benji: That. That's true. And it's it's the responsibility of the framework managers to consider 397 00:37:22.910 --> 00:37:26.569 benji: the maintenance burden of every new feature. 398 00:37:27.605 --> 00:37:29.057 benji: And I think that. 399 00:37:33.120 --> 00:37:37.500 benji: yeah, I think that that it was also tagged for framework manager review. 400 00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:44.920 benji: but our our responsibility is usability team is to comment on on the usability aspects of it. 401 00:37:46.260 --> 00:37:47.250 benji: So. 402 00:37:54.770 --> 00:37:58.670 benji: okay, I'm I'm happy to leave a comment on this issue. 403 00:38:01.560 --> 00:38:07.370 benji: and we're a little more than halfway through the hour. Shall we try and find another issue to look at. 404 00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:14.850 Simo Hellsten: Could I ask if you've come across? Issue related? I just saw 405 00:38:15.080 --> 00:38:17.459 Simo Hellsten: in that changing the text format 406 00:38:18.090 --> 00:38:19.710 Simo Hellsten: on that site 407 00:38:20.270 --> 00:38:21.310 Simo Hellsten: that 408 00:38:21.720 --> 00:38:24.679 Simo Hellsten: with that batch applied. 409 00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:28.359 Simo Hellsten: tending, changing a text format from 410 00:38:29.443 --> 00:38:32.166 Simo Hellsten: maybe. Make the window like 411 00:38:33.450 --> 00:38:35.089 Simo Hellsten: 1 4th narrower. 412 00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:37.029 Simo Hellsten: So there is less space. 413 00:38:40.240 --> 00:38:42.590 Simo Hellsten: and maybe 1st change it into 414 00:38:43.506 --> 00:38:44.680 Simo Hellsten: maybe restricted 415 00:38:45.210 --> 00:38:47.149 Simo Hellsten: HTML text format. 416 00:38:47.780 --> 00:38:49.100 benji: Automated 1st 417 00:38:49.570 --> 00:38:51.170 benji: make it restricted. 418 00:38:51.170 --> 00:38:54.760 Simo Hellsten: And then make the window narrow, more more narrow. 419 00:38:55.310 --> 00:38:57.518 benji: Actually, if I expand the 420 00:38:58.290 --> 00:39:00.849 benji: sidebar, does that have the same effect? 421 00:39:00.850 --> 00:39:01.600 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 422 00:39:02.070 --> 00:39:03.979 benji: I just think that for the sake of the zoom 423 00:39:04.560 --> 00:39:07.400 benji: recording this that might be. 424 00:39:07.830 --> 00:39:11.819 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. And then when you change to full. HTML, 425 00:39:18.860 --> 00:39:20.620 Simo Hellsten: a full HTML, it's 426 00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:22.340 Simo Hellsten: that one. 427 00:39:25.490 --> 00:39:29.999 Simo Hellsten: And here we see that it pushes part of the like, the like the 428 00:39:30.210 --> 00:39:32.290 Simo Hellsten: sidebar away from that 429 00:39:32.500 --> 00:39:38.840 Simo Hellsten: window. So that's something that I find confusing. I don't know if there is a solution, how to keep it 430 00:39:40.009 --> 00:39:45.189 Simo Hellsten: in that same size, or something like that. But I I noticed that I had a little bit more narrow 431 00:39:45.510 --> 00:39:48.800 Simo Hellsten: window, and that was confusing. That's changing that 432 00:39:49.160 --> 00:39:50.410 Simo Hellsten: text format. 433 00:39:51.260 --> 00:39:58.849 benji: Right. I I noticed the same problem. I didn't say anything about it, but that's why I I collapsed. My navigation toolbar. 434 00:39:59.670 --> 00:40:02.979 Simo Hellsten: So do we know if there is an issue about this. 435 00:40:04.640 --> 00:40:06.830 benji: I'm not aware of one. 436 00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:08.130 Ralf Koller: And neither. 437 00:40:08.810 --> 00:40:13.789 benji: And I I assume the difference between basic and full HTML is is the width of the toolbar. 438 00:40:14.040 --> 00:40:14.849 Simo Hellsten: And guess. 439 00:40:18.140 --> 00:40:25.860 Ralf Koller: But one question is that sidebar, or the is it the advanced actions? Is it called 440 00:40:26.640 --> 00:40:30.119 Ralf Koller: is that similar to basically the 441 00:40:33.750 --> 00:40:36.689 Ralf Koller: settings tray or overlay, or how it's called. 442 00:40:37.790 --> 00:40:46.889 Ralf Koller: is, it's basically the same functionality. Because if you resize that with that with with it overlay open, then you have similar problems. 443 00:40:49.790 --> 00:40:55.759 Ralf Koller: and the right side are being positioned, or they overlay on the right, outside the window, or 444 00:40:56.210 --> 00:40:58.269 Ralf Koller: in half, and so forth. 445 00:41:01.450 --> 00:41:04.907 benji: So let's see, back on my mommy's site. 446 00:41:07.140 --> 00:41:13.370 benji: so I could edit the layout. I could add a block, for example, that'll open the settings tray. 447 00:41:15.030 --> 00:41:18.979 Ralf Koller: And if you know, resize it, it's it's and also similar problems. 448 00:41:20.310 --> 00:41:21.060 Simo Hellsten: Huh! 449 00:41:21.220 --> 00:41:22.440 Simo Hellsten: But if you 450 00:41:23.080 --> 00:41:25.029 Simo Hellsten: just make it narrow enough. 451 00:41:25.170 --> 00:41:26.860 Simo Hellsten: then it drops 452 00:41:27.430 --> 00:41:29.005 Simo Hellsten: under under the 453 00:41:29.620 --> 00:41:31.460 Simo Hellsten: the main column or the form. 454 00:41:33.030 --> 00:41:34.870 Simo Hellsten: So it's kind of a maybe it's a 455 00:41:34.990 --> 00:41:35.999 Simo Hellsten: some sort of 456 00:41:36.070 --> 00:41:37.790 Simo Hellsten: breakpoint issue. 457 00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:42.449 Ralf Koller: Not only price points, but 458 00:41:44.170 --> 00:41:46.370 Ralf Koller: not entirely sure. It's it's oh. 459 00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:49.020 Ralf Koller: not very responsive. 460 00:41:49.310 --> 00:41:56.679 Ralf Koller: Let's put it that way. And it it's even more surfaced. For example, if you go under 461 00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:58.470 Ralf Koller: configuration 462 00:42:00.210 --> 00:42:01.540 Ralf Koller: and 463 00:42:06.650 --> 00:42:07.520 Ralf Koller: could you? 464 00:42:08.710 --> 00:42:14.509 Ralf Koller: What's it called on configuration user interface and navigation blocks 465 00:42:23.010 --> 00:42:27.140 Ralf Koller: on that page, if you've now opened, for example, at a block. 466 00:42:27.460 --> 00:42:29.309 Ralf Koller: the button in the sidebar. 467 00:42:31.380 --> 00:42:33.149 Ralf Koller: Yeah, there, that that is 468 00:42:34.030 --> 00:42:35.910 Ralf Koller: behaving quite 469 00:42:36.830 --> 00:42:43.129 Ralf Koller: on and off, and same for the same page preview, which is also some 470 00:42:44.380 --> 00:42:46.120 Ralf Koller: based on that overlay. 471 00:42:48.140 --> 00:42:51.529 Ralf Koller: And yeah, my initial question was, is, if that 472 00:42:51.830 --> 00:42:55.309 Ralf Koller: component is similar or identically 473 00:42:55.860 --> 00:43:00.039 Ralf Koller: built like the sidebar on that node edit form. 474 00:43:01.100 --> 00:43:02.209 Ralf Koller: or if that 475 00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:03.820 Ralf Koller: is something different. 476 00:43:07.670 --> 00:43:11.100 benji: So I I think that both the this. 477 00:43:12.450 --> 00:43:14.069 benji: the Sidebar tray 478 00:43:15.500 --> 00:43:17.379 benji: and the navigation 479 00:43:17.500 --> 00:43:18.700 benji: are 480 00:43:19.860 --> 00:43:24.669 benji: very different from the sidebar in the note edit form. 481 00:43:25.140 --> 00:43:25.790 Ralf Koller: Okay. 482 00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:44.380 benji: so I I think. Yes, structurally. This 483 00:43:44.930 --> 00:43:48.229 benji: region or this this div whatever it is. 484 00:43:48.876 --> 00:43:52.579 benji: is grouped with the the rest of the note edit form. 485 00:43:52.610 --> 00:43:54.310 benji: In fact, let's just 486 00:44:07.820 --> 00:44:10.060 benji: so. So this is the div 487 00:44:11.150 --> 00:44:14.179 benji: for for that right sidebar. 488 00:44:15.578 --> 00:44:18.010 benji: It's inside this wrapper 489 00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:22.010 benji: and the other wrapper 490 00:44:22.140 --> 00:44:25.940 benji: is the main part of the edit form, and then there's 491 00:44:25.990 --> 00:44:27.539 benji: some sort of region. 492 00:44:27.540 --> 00:44:30.609 Ralf Koller: But it has a class called Layout region. 493 00:44:32.782 --> 00:44:36.510 benji: That is not related to like layout builder. 494 00:44:36.600 --> 00:44:41.609 benji: and all 3 of those are contained in this div, which is inside the form. 495 00:44:44.700 --> 00:44:46.670 benji: so I think that's 496 00:44:46.910 --> 00:44:53.369 benji: and you you can see that the navigation component is is outside all of that 497 00:44:54.426 --> 00:44:59.920 benji: and the this settings tray is, is certainly outside of all of that as well. 498 00:45:00.780 --> 00:45:02.590 benji: So does that answer your question. 499 00:45:02.590 --> 00:45:03.550 Ralf Koller: Yep, yep, yep. 500 00:45:03.930 --> 00:45:04.590 benji: Okay. 501 00:45:04.870 --> 00:45:05.560 Ralf Koller: Thank you. 502 00:45:15.500 --> 00:45:18.219 benji: So this particular bug 503 00:45:21.630 --> 00:45:22.740 benji: that 504 00:45:26.490 --> 00:45:29.510 benji: when you switch to full. HTML, 505 00:45:33.910 --> 00:45:35.540 benji: this stuff gets pushed 506 00:45:35.630 --> 00:45:37.350 benji: off the edge of the screen. 507 00:45:38.090 --> 00:45:43.610 benji: I suspect that's a bug within navigation module. 508 00:45:52.980 --> 00:45:54.270 benji: and. 509 00:45:54.270 --> 00:46:01.569 Ralf Koller: Should we maybe uninstall the navigation module for a second, and see if how the behavior is with Admin tuba. 510 00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:04.370 benji: Sure. 511 00:46:05.340 --> 00:46:07.479 Ralf Koller: One sec. I'll quickly uninstall. 512 00:46:18.610 --> 00:46:19.280 Ralf Koller: Foreman. 513 00:46:31.750 --> 00:46:33.260 Ralf Koller: please. Via the cache. 514 00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:37.780 Ralf Koller: Okay. 515 00:46:44.640 --> 00:46:46.215 benji: Okay, so let's 516 00:46:47.670 --> 00:46:49.250 benji: put the toolbar 517 00:46:49.690 --> 00:46:51.050 benji: on the left. 518 00:46:55.150 --> 00:46:57.610 benji: So putting the toolbar on the left 519 00:46:58.160 --> 00:47:00.340 benji: also creates the same problem. 520 00:47:04.150 --> 00:47:05.980 benji: So it's not the navigation. 521 00:47:20.310 --> 00:47:22.729 benji: And let's see if we 522 00:47:25.030 --> 00:47:32.069 benji: say switch from full h 2 l. Back to basic h 2 l. Which doesn't take up quite so much space. Then again, it fits. 523 00:47:46.610 --> 00:47:48.239 benji: So it's problem with 524 00:47:48.850 --> 00:47:52.240 benji: either the navigation module or the toolbar 525 00:47:52.950 --> 00:47:54.270 benji: in vertical mode. 526 00:48:03.630 --> 00:48:06.609 benji: So where would I guess that would be 527 00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:10.970 benji: problem with the Clara theme. 528 00:48:19.160 --> 00:48:22.300 benji: and Ralph says in the chat, at least it's consistent. Yes. 529 00:48:27.940 --> 00:48:31.620 Simo Hellsten: I think Clara has several issues about that left and right 530 00:48:31.970 --> 00:48:34.429 Simo Hellsten: side on the node edit form. 531 00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:38.460 Simo Hellsten: And it's actually something that I think 532 00:48:39.140 --> 00:48:42.010 Simo Hellsten: some time ago Christina wrote that 533 00:48:42.050 --> 00:48:43.360 Simo Hellsten: we need to have a 534 00:48:43.910 --> 00:48:46.260 Simo Hellsten: kind of a full solution 535 00:48:46.870 --> 00:48:48.770 Simo Hellsten: for that, so that we can have 536 00:48:48.790 --> 00:48:52.129 Simo Hellsten: narrow content, so that the text lines are not 2 537 00:48:52.850 --> 00:48:54.250 Simo Hellsten: long and then 538 00:48:55.050 --> 00:48:57.650 Simo Hellsten: wide content for different kinds of 539 00:48:57.830 --> 00:49:00.149 Simo Hellsten: complex paragraphs and other 540 00:49:01.110 --> 00:49:04.059 Simo Hellsten: that kind of a complex content that's 541 00:49:04.130 --> 00:49:06.179 Simo Hellsten: editable in the edit form. 542 00:49:07.650 --> 00:49:08.420 Simo Hellsten: So 543 00:49:08.590 --> 00:49:09.910 Simo Hellsten: I think there is a 544 00:49:10.870 --> 00:49:14.290 Simo Hellsten: if I remember right, there is a Meta issue. 545 00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:18.859 Simo Hellsten: and if this doesn't exist there already as an issue, this could be 546 00:49:19.310 --> 00:49:20.510 Simo Hellsten: maybe added 547 00:49:21.290 --> 00:49:22.690 Simo Hellsten: as an example. 548 00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:26.489 benji: Right. So 549 00:49:27.070 --> 00:49:31.160 benji: could E either search for the issues yourself, or you could mention it in the 550 00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:35.750 benji: What? What is the channel admin theme? 551 00:49:36.040 --> 00:49:37.019 Ralf Koller: Admin ui. 552 00:49:37.260 --> 00:49:38.410 benji: Admin ui, right? 553 00:49:40.340 --> 00:49:43.860 benji: Probably ask in in that slack channel and and get an answer. 554 00:49:50.660 --> 00:49:55.749 benji: Okay, so we have a little less than 15 min left. Is that enough time to 555 00:49:56.120 --> 00:49:57.599 benji: look at another issue? 556 00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:02.599 benji: Or shall we just have a short meeting today? 557 00:50:05.270 --> 00:50:07.399 Simo Hellsten: I think 15 min is 558 00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:13.040 Simo Hellsten: enough time to do something, but we are only 3 people present here. 559 00:50:14.060 --> 00:50:16.170 Simo Hellsten: so it would be nice to have more. 560 00:50:24.330 --> 00:50:26.930 benji: Oh, if you 2 are both willing 561 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:30.520 benji: to spend a little more time than 562 00:50:31.060 --> 00:50:33.609 benji: let's have, look at some of these issues. 563 00:51:03.080 --> 00:51:07.489 benji: Oh, about this one, unless one of you has a preference. 564 00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:12.319 benji: Link, field validation constraints don't give enough detail 565 00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:18.519 benji: for the sake of the recording, and this is 3, 2, 6, 2, 9, 3, 5, 566 00:51:20.660 --> 00:51:26.519 benji: 3 of the validation constraints for link fields give the error message. Quote 567 00:51:26.610 --> 00:51:30.520 benji: the path at Uri is invalid end quote 568 00:51:34.300 --> 00:51:36.379 benji: link not existing. 569 00:51:36.420 --> 00:51:42.700 benji: Internal constraint. Validator catches 3 different kinds of exception which all produce this message. 570 00:51:43.390 --> 00:51:47.790 benji: Link, type, constraint, validator handles. 2 different errors 571 00:51:48.180 --> 00:51:51.980 benji: link is internal, but only externals allowed, and vice versa. 572 00:51:52.390 --> 00:51:58.890 benji: but only shows this message for both. This makes it difficult to figure out what is wrong with the field value. 573 00:52:00.600 --> 00:52:06.180 benji: The proposed resolution is to explain the specific problem in the validation messages. 574 00:52:06.280 --> 00:52:07.999 benji: So the user knows 575 00:52:08.190 --> 00:52:10.139 benji: what they need to fix. 576 00:52:11.600 --> 00:52:12.350 benji: So 577 00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:16.980 benji: shall we 1st 578 00:52:17.460 --> 00:52:20.629 benji: try to generate some of those error messages. 579 00:52:24.120 --> 00:52:26.870 Ralf Koller: Yeah, and should I apply the patch? 580 00:52:29.299 --> 00:52:31.099 benji: Yes, thank you. 581 00:52:34.500 --> 00:52:37.709 Ralf Koller: Hopefully it does cause. It's still for 10.1. 582 00:52:44.550 --> 00:52:49.699 benji: So let's see, article doesn't have a link field. So 583 00:52:55.270 --> 00:52:56.940 benji: structure 584 00:52:59.080 --> 00:53:00.240 benji: port types. 585 00:53:05.100 --> 00:53:06.740 Ralf Koller: Nope doesn't apply. 586 00:53:16.380 --> 00:53:20.340 benji: Let's add a link field to the article content type. 587 00:53:39.140 --> 00:53:40.590 benji: let's say 588 00:53:41.350 --> 00:53:43.380 benji: internal links. Only 589 00:53:48.510 --> 00:53:50.450 benji: I go back and edit my 590 00:53:52.050 --> 00:53:53.030 benji: article. 591 00:53:57.790 --> 00:53:59.199 benji: Now I have 592 00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:05.860 benji: interesting. I mean. 593 00:54:07.560 --> 00:54:10.062 benji: not sure why that is showing up. 594 00:54:12.860 --> 00:54:15.630 benji: But if I try to put in yeah, URL, to say 595 00:54:16.520 --> 00:54:17.620 benji: with Paul. 596 00:54:32.430 --> 00:54:34.409 benji: try and save that 597 00:54:35.810 --> 00:54:39.700 benji: an error message. The path such and such is invalid. 598 00:54:40.270 --> 00:54:41.720 benji: and 599 00:54:43.410 --> 00:54:47.229 benji: the whole link field is highlighted in red. 600 00:54:48.770 --> 00:54:54.930 benji: So it's it's a little annoying that we can't specifically highlight this text field. 601 00:54:55.160 --> 00:54:59.000 benji: We also highlight this one, even though there's nothing wrong with the link text. 602 00:55:00.060 --> 00:55:00.820 benji: And 603 00:55:01.150 --> 00:55:03.379 benji: the error message is 604 00:55:03.510 --> 00:55:06.999 benji: not very specific. That's that's what this issue is talking about. 605 00:55:10.700 --> 00:55:13.341 benji: Any further questions on 606 00:55:14.070 --> 00:55:15.499 benji: and what the issue is about. 607 00:55:16.910 --> 00:55:17.610 benji: Nope 608 00:55:19.580 --> 00:55:20.590 benji: and 609 00:55:21.910 --> 00:55:26.119 benji: and I do something similar on on your side. Ralph. 610 00:55:27.190 --> 00:55:28.470 Ralf Koller: Yeah, but the patch. 611 00:55:29.330 --> 00:55:31.130 Ralf Koller: I was unable to apply 612 00:55:31.140 --> 00:55:33.699 Ralf Koller: the purchase for 10.1, and 613 00:55:34.350 --> 00:55:36.309 Ralf Koller: it failed with composer patches. 614 00:55:39.230 --> 00:55:44.318 benji: Okay? So we can't actually get a live test of of the patch. 615 00:55:48.310 --> 00:55:52.258 benji: what's the most recent comment? Why am I scrolling? I should have put anyway. 616 00:55:54.590 --> 00:55:56.330 benji: several months ago. 617 00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:00.500 benji: And 618 00:56:01.530 --> 00:56:04.309 benji: why was it tagged for usability review? 619 00:56:14.550 --> 00:56:16.680 benji: was originally tagged 620 00:56:17.570 --> 00:56:21.700 benji: in 2023 in February, and then 621 00:56:22.420 --> 00:56:25.920 benji: Tag was removed by Lori in 622 00:56:26.910 --> 00:56:28.390 benji: few months later. 623 00:56:28.820 --> 00:56:32.069 benji: A new validation that's just at least makes sense to me. 624 00:56:32.110 --> 00:56:33.489 benji: I agree that it's 625 00:56:33.830 --> 00:56:39.900 benji: a good idea to pay extra attention to the error messages because they are critical to user experience. 626 00:56:41.790 --> 00:56:43.939 benji: And then it was added. 627 00:56:45.210 --> 00:56:46.130 benji: no. 628 00:56:48.540 --> 00:56:50.040 benji: it was never added back. 629 00:56:50.720 --> 00:56:54.419 benji: So is it still tagged free usability review. No, Nope. 630 00:56:57.060 --> 00:57:03.059 benji: that's right. It didn't show up when I was looking at that list. It's just an issue that we've been tracking for a long time. 631 00:57:14.950 --> 00:57:20.420 benji: so should still be tagged for usability, but not usability. Review. 632 00:57:27.300 --> 00:57:32.700 benji: well, it needs an issue summary. It doesn't have any screenshots. It doesn't have much. 633 00:57:33.400 --> 00:57:33.760 Ralf Koller: The Us. 634 00:57:33.760 --> 00:57:36.110 benji: Very specific proposed Resolution. 635 00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:39.569 Ralf Koller: And also the user interface changes are missing. 636 00:57:42.390 --> 00:57:44.640 Ralf Koller: Basically, that's of a 637 00:57:45.160 --> 00:57:46.450 Ralf Koller: strings used. 638 00:57:49.430 --> 00:57:51.330 Ralf Koller: But we could take a look at those. 639 00:57:55.760 --> 00:57:56.800 benji: Take a look at what? 640 00:57:57.070 --> 00:58:02.500 Ralf Koller: We could take a look at the patch, at the code itself, and there you are able to see 641 00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:04.620 Ralf Koller: the proposed changes. 642 00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:16.060 benji: So the patch is 643 00:58:16.700 --> 00:58:20.529 benji: adding the section, so it's adding several new strings. 644 00:58:23.160 --> 00:58:28.639 benji: The path Uri doesn't exist. The path Uri has an invalid parameter 645 00:58:29.720 --> 00:58:33.229 benji: or the path Uri is missing a required parameter. 646 00:58:38.300 --> 00:58:40.120 Ralf Koller: But if you scroll down. 647 00:58:40.890 --> 00:58:47.230 Ralf Koller: there are more strings. Pass your eyes invalid, and then is external. But the link 648 00:58:48.600 --> 00:58:51.109 Ralf Koller: field only supports eternal pathos. 649 00:58:52.830 --> 00:59:02.139 benji: Matthew is invalid, happy is external, but Link Field only supports internal paths. I think the feeling we might shorten that a little bit. 650 00:59:03.050 --> 00:59:06.959 benji: The path. Uri is internal, but the link field only supports 651 00:59:06.970 --> 00:59:08.580 benji: external paths. 652 00:59:09.240 --> 00:59:11.500 benji: Those are at least clear. 653 00:59:12.530 --> 00:59:14.749 benji: Think they could be a little bit shorter. But 654 00:59:17.086 --> 00:59:18.440 benji: I think. 655 00:59:19.150 --> 00:59:24.760 benji: as is they are an improvement over the non specific message we currently have. 656 00:59:36.530 --> 00:59:38.150 benji: it's a pretty simple patch. 657 01:00:03.580 --> 01:00:06.640 benji: so let's just we have a few minutes left. 658 01:00:07.090 --> 01:00:09.000 benji: What do you think of 659 01:00:11.630 --> 01:00:15.799 benji: these 2 messages? Can we suggest slight shortening of them. 660 01:00:21.540 --> 01:00:23.450 Ralf Koller: Maybe remove the butler 661 01:00:24.450 --> 01:00:27.950 Ralf Koller: part simply. The path you're right is external. 662 01:00:28.687 --> 01:00:31.609 Ralf Koller: Link. Field only supports internal paths 663 01:00:37.050 --> 01:00:39.409 Ralf Koller: or link fields only support 664 01:00:39.440 --> 01:00:40.860 Ralf Koller: internal purpose. 665 01:00:41.070 --> 01:00:41.770 Ralf Koller: Tool. 666 01:00:43.130 --> 01:00:44.370 benji: I wouldn't say 667 01:00:44.630 --> 01:00:50.130 benji: Link Fields. That suggests all link fields, but it's it's configuration option. It can be configured. 668 01:00:50.130 --> 01:00:51.490 Ralf Koller: Yeah. Okay. Sure. 669 01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:53.550 Ralf Koller: Choke. Choke. 670 01:01:17.310 --> 01:01:17.970 benji: but it. 671 01:01:17.970 --> 01:01:24.182 Ralf Koller: If it's a configuration option. In that case, then supports is also 672 01:01:26.460 --> 01:01:28.839 Ralf Koller: the wrong way to express it. 673 01:01:33.100 --> 01:01:34.420 Ralf Koller: or supports 674 01:01:35.050 --> 01:01:37.710 Ralf Koller: indirectly means yeah. 675 01:01:38.870 --> 01:01:41.590 Ralf Koller: Link fields in general only support 676 01:01:41.830 --> 01:01:42.650 Ralf Koller: that. 677 01:01:51.570 --> 01:01:54.189 benji: So let me just use browser tools to 678 01:01:54.980 --> 01:01:58.288 benji: insert the proposed text here. 679 01:02:09.120 --> 01:02:11.580 benji: Although we're down to 2 min, maybe I should. 680 01:02:11.940 --> 01:02:13.769 benji: Don't really have time for that. 681 01:02:45.970 --> 01:02:48.210 benji: Put a line break in here. 682 01:02:51.230 --> 01:02:53.290 benji: let's see to the side by side. 683 01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:13.840 benji: so I would. 684 01:03:14.230 --> 01:03:16.750 benji: I would make it 2 sentences, the path. 685 01:03:17.210 --> 01:03:19.909 benji: such and such as external period. 686 01:03:20.380 --> 01:03:21.790 benji: This field 687 01:03:23.940 --> 01:03:26.820 benji: only supports internal paths. 688 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:29.069 benji: That's a tiny bit 689 01:03:29.110 --> 01:03:31.600 benji: shorter, few characters less 690 01:03:32.320 --> 01:03:36.230 benji: but it's 2 short sentences rather than one long sentence. 691 01:03:36.800 --> 01:03:40.380 benji: but I have a feeling we could do better than that. But we're out of time. 692 01:03:45.990 --> 01:03:52.680 benji: so unless one of you wants to leave the comment. And I know, Ralph, you're still working on a comment from last week's meeting. 693 01:03:53.175 --> 01:03:58.849 benji: I I have time today. I think I'll I'll leave comments on on both of these issues. 694 01:03:59.430 --> 01:04:01.040 benji: If that's okay with you. 695 01:04:01.600 --> 01:04:02.612 Ralf Koller: Area. Thank you. 696 01:04:02.950 --> 01:04:03.550 Simo Hellsten: Thanks. 697 01:04:04.300 --> 01:04:07.290 benji: Okay, thanks for sticking through the end of the meeting. 698 01:04:07.820 --> 01:04:09.669 benji: and I'll see you next week. I hope. 699 01:04:11.240 --> 01:04:12.770 Ralf Koller: Well, next week, bye, bye. 700 01:04:12.970 --> 01:04:13.880 Simo Hellsten: But bye.