WEBVTT 42 00:08:20.620 --> 00:08:23.640 benji: welcome. This is the drupal usability meeting for 43 00:08:23.910 --> 00:08:26.300 benji: June 14, th 2024. 44 00:08:26.700 --> 00:08:31.000 benji: I'm Benji Fisher, sharing my screen and moderating I'm 45 00:08:31.810 --> 00:08:37.730 benji: currently sitting out a session at involve drupal in Montreal. Not my usual 46 00:08:38.419 --> 00:08:39.860 benji: location 47 00:08:40.510 --> 00:08:41.200 benji: and 48 00:08:42.929 --> 00:08:47.189 benji: Also present are Andres Vankov, Ralph Kohler. 49 00:08:47.490 --> 00:08:49.419 benji: Scott, Carpenter, or Scott. 50 00:08:49.730 --> 00:08:52.259 benji: Semo Helston, and Thomas Howell 51 00:08:52.530 --> 00:08:54.732 benji: and Scott. You just joined us. 52 00:08:56.120 --> 00:09:03.270 benji: no one has any issues that they're eager to talk about. So I thought we could look at the starshot initiative for 53 00:09:03.500 --> 00:09:05.590 benji: at least part of today's meeting. 54 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:11.370 benji: feel free to jump in. If you have something else you'd like to talk about. 55 00:09:11.580 --> 00:09:12.970 Scott Carpenter: That sounds like fun. Let's go ahead. 56 00:09:14.590 --> 00:09:16.460 benji: Okay. So 57 00:09:20.100 --> 00:09:21.240 benji: is there anyone 58 00:09:21.260 --> 00:09:23.209 benji: at the meeting who 59 00:09:23.410 --> 00:09:25.260 benji: let's not know what we're talking about 60 00:09:25.760 --> 00:09:27.449 benji: hasn't heard of starshot yet. 61 00:09:30.400 --> 00:09:34.520 benji: I don't see any reactions in zoom. So I'll 62 00:09:34.550 --> 00:09:37.430 benji: I'll just say something briefly for the recording 63 00:09:38.236 --> 00:09:41.519 benji: at Drupalcon, Portland last month. 64 00:09:41.950 --> 00:09:45.370 benji: Therese announced an initiative. 65 00:09:47.540 --> 00:09:53.960 benji: It's supposed to be ambitious and transformative, and by the end of the year we hope to have 66 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:55.085 benji: a 67 00:09:56.460 --> 00:09:58.919 benji: something available for the public to use. 68 00:09:58.990 --> 00:10:06.879 benji: It will be a starting point for drupal. It will involve recipes. It will involve Project browser and automatic updates. 69 00:10:09.290 --> 00:10:10.980 benji: and 70 00:10:11.540 --> 00:10:14.420 benji: and it will involve contributed modules. 71 00:10:15.230 --> 00:10:18.790 benji: And thank you, Ralph. He has spun up another 72 00:10:19.220 --> 00:10:22.449 benji: shared site. You can get the link in the zoom. Chat. 73 00:10:28.700 --> 00:10:29.950 benji: so 74 00:10:31.595 --> 00:10:32.250 benji: let's 75 00:10:32.280 --> 00:10:39.030 benji: let's look at the various components of starshot and think about them from a usability perspective. 76 00:10:39.633 --> 00:10:47.480 benji: I have here the homepage for the starshot initiative. It's just triple.org, and then about slash starshot 77 00:10:49.087 --> 00:10:51.959 benji: and, as you can see from the menu, there are 78 00:10:52.756 --> 00:10:56.230 benji: several different components. There's the automatic updates 79 00:10:56.280 --> 00:10:59.819 benji: which is currently available as a country of module. 80 00:11:00.660 --> 00:11:03.470 benji: There is drupal at the edge. 81 00:11:03.958 --> 00:11:10.230 benji: Which I'll will come up later. I believe it's supposed to be a way to run drupal 82 00:11:10.290 --> 00:11:13.120 benji: in the browser. So, using 83 00:11:13.380 --> 00:11:16.220 benji: web as M, or something rather than 84 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:21.119 benji: traditional containers, and such to run your your database and web server. 85 00:11:21.690 --> 00:11:28.880 benji: There is experience, builder which is planned to be the the next evolution of the layout builder. 86 00:11:29.630 --> 00:11:31.979 benji: project, browser and recipes. 87 00:11:33.890 --> 00:11:43.500 benji: and then some frequently asked questions. The the amusing thing about this set of frequently asked questions. Is that so many of them? The short answer is, No 88 00:11:48.070 --> 00:11:50.340 benji: And anyone know 89 00:11:50.370 --> 00:11:54.740 benji: want to add anything at this point, or shall we start talking about the individual 90 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:56.859 benji: parts of of the starshot 91 00:11:57.320 --> 00:11:58.220 benji: program. 92 00:12:04.850 --> 00:12:05.830 benji: But let's 93 00:12:06.640 --> 00:12:09.616 benji: start with automatic updates. 94 00:12:10.570 --> 00:12:14.050 benji: as I said, it's available as a contributed module 95 00:12:17.210 --> 00:12:18.570 benji: and 96 00:12:21.510 --> 00:12:22.190 benji: that 97 00:12:22.510 --> 00:12:27.001 benji: actually I have. I I'm I'm not currently sharing it. But 98 00:12:28.310 --> 00:12:31.430 benji: I think if I can find it, I have. 99 00:12:33.490 --> 00:12:35.549 benji: or actually the easy way to do. It 100 00:12:37.040 --> 00:12:38.610 benji: is a 101 00:12:40.950 --> 00:12:42.879 benji: just to get new link. 102 00:13:01.830 --> 00:13:07.060 benji: I used a login link when I was already logged in. That's why I'm getting an access denied 103 00:13:07.677 --> 00:13:11.250 benji: but for automatic updates, if you go to reports 104 00:13:12.410 --> 00:13:14.310 benji: and available updates. 105 00:13:19.100 --> 00:13:21.619 benji: there's a new tab called update. 106 00:13:22.280 --> 00:13:23.180 benji: which 107 00:13:23.430 --> 00:13:28.759 benji: I can't really demonstrate at the moment, because I tested it last night, and it did update me to the 108 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:32.560 benji: latest version of drupal 10.2 109 00:13:37.510 --> 00:13:39.520 benji: There are some settings. 110 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:43.930 benji: and we might at some point. Yeah. 111 00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:47.999 benji: look at the settings form from a usability point of view. 112 00:13:51.590 --> 00:13:57.879 benji: you, you can run updates automatically in the background. You have a choice of 113 00:13:57.990 --> 00:14:01.509 benji: disabling it. So not running them in the background, just 114 00:14:01.710 --> 00:14:05.600 benji: using security updates or all patch releases. 115 00:14:07.390 --> 00:14:10.989 benji: you have to set up a Cron job in order to trigger it. 116 00:14:15.900 --> 00:14:21.660 benji: I wonder whether it is helpful to have a default value here for the email address. 117 00:14:21.990 --> 00:14:24.959 benji: or whether it should be blank initially. 118 00:14:28.110 --> 00:14:33.579 benji: it. It seems to be working. I believe, that we are still waiting for 119 00:14:34.292 --> 00:14:37.607 benji: some support from the drupal Association. 120 00:14:38.690 --> 00:14:41.900 benji: the the signing, using the the tough framework. 121 00:14:43.910 --> 00:14:46.010 benji: but this is 122 00:14:46.450 --> 00:14:48.020 benji: basically working 123 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:57.660 benji: and maybe it would be worth looking at the the issue queue just briefly so. 124 00:15:07.540 --> 00:15:09.329 benji: accidentally hit cap, locks. 125 00:15:09.550 --> 00:15:11.439 benji: caps, lock. But I got there anyway. 126 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:18.999 benji: So there are a good number of open issues. 127 00:15:27.430 --> 00:15:31.480 benji: including one issue labeled Wip Work in progress. 128 00:15:36.890 --> 00:15:42.300 benji: but does anyone have anything else to say about automatic updates in particular. 129 00:15:43.630 --> 00:15:49.460 Simo Hellsten: I think when you mentioned Benji, that that the email address that's there 130 00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:50.940 Simo Hellsten: of by default. 131 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.260 Simo Hellsten: I would expect that's the say, the site 132 00:15:54.910 --> 00:15:58.480 Simo Hellsten: site Admin address the one that's 133 00:15:59.887 --> 00:16:03.440 Simo Hellsten: what the user gives when installing groupel. 134 00:16:03.620 --> 00:16:05.090 Simo Hellsten: Is that correct? 135 00:16:05.340 --> 00:16:06.259 Simo Hellsten: You are probably. 136 00:16:06.260 --> 00:16:06.860 benji: Right. 137 00:16:06.860 --> 00:16:09.949 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So then, it makes sense to have it by default. 138 00:16:10.650 --> 00:16:11.375 benji: Okay. 139 00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:16.220 Simo Hellsten: If it's not automatic, automatically applied, if there is none 140 00:16:16.710 --> 00:16:17.470 Simo Hellsten: so. 141 00:16:20.270 --> 00:16:21.270 benji: Good good point. 142 00:16:22.980 --> 00:16:25.410 benji: And, Thomas, you have something to Matt. Add. 143 00:16:26.373 --> 00:16:37.896 Thomas Howell: I have a question more than anything as an older site user, or one who's used older versions, but really hasn't been active with the 144 00:16:38.540 --> 00:16:40.985 Thomas Howell: the automatic updates. 145 00:16:42.390 --> 00:16:45.320 Thomas Howell: is there anything that explains 146 00:16:45.330 --> 00:16:53.479 Thomas Howell: how this works in conjunction with composer? Or is this like, if this is automatically being 147 00:16:54.770 --> 00:16:56.750 Thomas Howell: a part of starshot. 148 00:16:56.790 --> 00:16:58.770 Thomas Howell: Does that mean that 149 00:16:58.830 --> 00:17:06.609 Thomas Howell: we are moving away from a composer-centric management and get style management? 150 00:17:07.609 --> 00:17:13.499 benji: Not at all. And in fact I think the best place to answer that is the project page 151 00:17:17.630 --> 00:17:22.529 benji: requirements. It requires a particular version of composer. 152 00:17:24.670 --> 00:17:25.710 benji: and 153 00:17:25.760 --> 00:17:28.349 benji: I think somewhere here it mentions that 154 00:17:29.389 --> 00:17:29.969 benji: you. 155 00:17:30.080 --> 00:17:34.549 benji: You need to have a site that is managed by composer for it to work at all. 156 00:17:35.110 --> 00:17:35.660 Thomas Howell: Okay. 157 00:17:36.100 --> 00:17:42.419 Thomas Howell: So this is a gui ui sitting on top of the composer process. Cool. Thank you. 158 00:17:45.242 --> 00:17:47.419 benji: Yes, we got a thumbs up from Scott 159 00:17:48.760 --> 00:17:53.850 benji: and i i i actually tested it. Just last night 160 00:17:55.180 --> 00:18:02.380 benji: when I just cloned the main drupal repository and installed the site from there. 161 00:18:03.270 --> 00:18:06.770 benji: It did not work. There was Yup 162 00:18:08.970 --> 00:18:19.449 benji: because of the the version constraints in Moser dot Json, I. I then tried again with a site using drupal core, recommended 163 00:18:20.095 --> 00:18:25.280 benji: and and that's the site we were just looking at, where where it did seem to work 164 00:18:25.840 --> 00:18:27.260 benji: so 165 00:18:27.490 --> 00:18:29.572 benji: so yes, it is. It is 166 00:18:29.930 --> 00:18:33.139 benji: definitely on top of composer, not replacing composer. 167 00:18:34.034 --> 00:18:35.550 benji: It's aimed at 168 00:18:35.900 --> 00:18:39.190 benji: small to medium sites where they 169 00:18:40.415 --> 00:18:41.320 benji: you 170 00:18:41.390 --> 00:18:43.980 benji: prefer not to use the command line, perhaps. 171 00:18:44.190 --> 00:18:45.190 benji: and 172 00:18:46.230 --> 00:18:50.010 benji: and and aims to keep drupal and contribute modules 173 00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:55.950 benji: up to date, either by going through the the Admin ui and and 174 00:18:56.010 --> 00:19:05.579 benji: clicking the button to install or by doing it completely, automatically. That's what it aims to do. Currently, it only works with 175 00:19:06.030 --> 00:19:08.300 benji: drupal core 176 00:19:08.600 --> 00:19:10.400 benji: patch releases, I believe. 177 00:19:11.776 --> 00:19:13.684 benji: And unfortunately, the 178 00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:21.380 benji: project page is a little bit out of date. It it is somewhat more functional than the project page would lead you to believe. 179 00:19:25.250 --> 00:19:26.540 benji: so 180 00:19:35.620 --> 00:19:37.499 benji: yeah, let's let's just be 181 00:19:39.800 --> 00:19:43.060 benji: linear here and and go through the 182 00:19:43.490 --> 00:19:45.249 benji: the menu one at a time 183 00:19:46.170 --> 00:19:48.130 benji: drupal at the edge. 184 00:19:49.180 --> 00:19:53.239 benji: I'm a little bit skeptical with this. It sounds kind of crazy to me. 185 00:19:53.310 --> 00:20:02.198 benji: but i i i think someone told me that it was that that wordpress already does something like this. So maybe it is not as 186 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:05.520 benji: farfetched as as I imagine. 187 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:11.240 benji: web assembly, go ahead. 188 00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:21.349 Scott Carpenter: Webassembly is part of browser Apis itself. So they come from browsers, and they've been in browsers for the last few generations. But we've we're just not using it because it's such a new technology 189 00:20:21.560 --> 00:20:22.639 Scott Carpenter: as far as okay. 190 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:26.500 benji: I'm I'm I'm just 191 00:20:29.190 --> 00:20:31.470 benji: I guess I will be impressed if it works 192 00:20:31.520 --> 00:20:34.270 benji: to have Webassembly run 193 00:20:34.905 --> 00:20:36.209 benji: some sort of 194 00:20:36.930 --> 00:20:38.790 benji: Php and and 195 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:40.860 benji: and database. 196 00:20:41.820 --> 00:20:49.010 benji: Webassembly provides a solution for us to run drupal right inside your browser without any prerequisite software bicycle. Php Apache. 197 00:20:55.290 --> 00:20:56.409 benji: and I 198 00:20:57.940 --> 00:21:01.289 benji: you just see if I can find. I think they're somewhere 199 00:21:03.169 --> 00:21:07.069 benji: the the the home page for the starshot initiative, by the way, does 200 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:09.190 benji: have a lot of content on it. 201 00:21:09.940 --> 00:21:10.950 benji: It. 202 00:21:11.520 --> 00:21:15.013 benji: including a bunch of blog posts, upcoming meetings, 203 00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:17.410 benji: recordings of 204 00:21:17.570 --> 00:21:19.110 benji: previous meetings. 205 00:21:20.780 --> 00:21:22.580 benji: issues, news. 206 00:21:24.260 --> 00:21:26.716 benji: starshot swag. I don't know that I need that. 207 00:21:32.740 --> 00:21:33.435 benji: let's 208 00:21:34.690 --> 00:21:37.029 benji: Let's move on the experience builder. 209 00:21:37.460 --> 00:21:38.430 benji: So 210 00:21:39.970 --> 00:21:46.749 benji: this has a few components. My understanding is that it? 211 00:21:46.890 --> 00:21:50.060 benji: One part of it is an improved layout builder 212 00:21:51.310 --> 00:21:56.419 benji: and another part is to let you do theming 213 00:21:56.790 --> 00:21:58.090 benji: in the browser. 214 00:21:59.155 --> 00:22:05.390 benji: So it will build on ideas from things like the contributed ui patterns module 215 00:22:07.100 --> 00:22:10.860 benji: it will let you use single directory components. 216 00:22:11.390 --> 00:22:12.355 benji: So 217 00:22:13.700 --> 00:22:16.740 benji: twig and css and javascript that you have 218 00:22:17.139 --> 00:22:20.930 benji: in in the file system. It will also let you 219 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:26.940 benji: somehow create components through the browser. I'm not sure how that's supposed to work 220 00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:31.340 benji: and and so 221 00:22:32.210 --> 00:22:40.960 benji: so so part of the goal is to let you do it all within the browser. This is targeting the ambitious site user site builder. Rather. 222 00:22:41.785 --> 00:22:49.090 benji: So the Site builder is supposed to have this ability to control the theme, build the theme 223 00:22:49.540 --> 00:22:54.309 benji: through the browser, and then the content Creator gets the improved layout builder. 224 00:22:56.840 --> 00:22:57.590 benji: this. 225 00:22:57.950 --> 00:23:01.200 benji: So work is just beginning on that. 226 00:23:02.369 --> 00:23:08.959 benji: I I've seen some involved discussions of the data model that they plan to use. 227 00:23:09.230 --> 00:23:11.269 benji: I know that whim leers 228 00:23:11.340 --> 00:23:16.390 benji: is now working full time on the experience builder. 229 00:23:16.974 --> 00:23:23.259 benji: I I know that just because it's it's 1 of the blog posts on the the homepage, the starshot initiative. 230 00:23:24.666 --> 00:23:28.209 benji: And he's giving weekly updates on progress. 231 00:23:28.390 --> 00:23:30.220 benji: It looks as though. 232 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:31.809 benji: oh, here here are the 233 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:38.719 benji: 1st 3 weekly up updates the last one was from the 6, th so I guess 234 00:23:39.360 --> 00:23:41.439 benji: there should be another one any day now. 235 00:23:43.175 --> 00:23:43.600 benji: Very. 236 00:23:44.410 --> 00:23:48.400 benji: I don't think it is yet ready to be tested. 237 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:50.109 benji: I guess it's 238 00:23:50.410 --> 00:23:56.129 benji: there. There is a project page it's being built as a contributed module. 239 00:23:57.191 --> 00:23:59.420 benji: But there are no releases yet. 240 00:24:00.010 --> 00:24:02.049 benji: I was looking at the roadmap. 241 00:24:03.560 --> 00:24:04.460 benji: I think 242 00:24:05.450 --> 00:24:10.070 benji: 1 point O is supposed to be ready in about 9 months. 243 00:24:13.330 --> 00:24:14.010 benji: and 244 00:24:14.380 --> 00:24:18.790 benji: maybe by triple con Barcelona in September of this year. 245 00:24:19.342 --> 00:24:25.670 benji: It. It aims to be in an installable state. So that you can 246 00:24:26.230 --> 00:24:27.380 benji: try it out. 247 00:24:30.270 --> 00:24:32.679 benji: The goal is to take 248 00:24:32.700 --> 00:24:36.769 benji: some of the ux ideas from paragraphs and related modules. 249 00:24:37.310 --> 00:24:37.920 benji: and 250 00:24:39.290 --> 00:24:49.070 benji: a, and use them to improve the the layout builder. And I'm not sure where it's getting inspiration for the theme, building part of it. 251 00:24:53.310 --> 00:24:55.110 benji: and I think when 252 00:24:55.280 --> 00:25:01.350 benji: when it is installable, I think we, we will definitely want to have a look at it and see if we can 253 00:25:02.142 --> 00:25:05.490 benji: help move it along from from the ux perspective. 254 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.749 benji: Oh, I guess one other thing to say about the experience builder. 255 00:25:13.540 --> 00:25:14.950 benji: E is that 256 00:25:15.090 --> 00:25:18.860 benji: it's it's really a fundamental design choice that 257 00:25:20.190 --> 00:25:21.950 benji: that we want to 258 00:25:22.050 --> 00:25:27.469 benji: leverage drupal's advantages. So so what drupal has that other content management systems don't have 259 00:25:27.520 --> 00:25:35.839 benji: is structured content. So a key part of experience builder is is using structured content in a natural way 260 00:25:36.130 --> 00:25:42.519 benji: and and not just being able to click and drag things and move them around on the page, although you'll also be able to do that. 261 00:25:44.350 --> 00:25:47.099 benji: Anything else to say about experience. Builder. 262 00:25:54.690 --> 00:25:59.759 benji: project. Browser. I know, Ralph, you are involved in that project. Would you like to? 263 00:26:00.080 --> 00:26:01.859 benji: Oh, someone raised a hand briefly. 264 00:26:03.120 --> 00:26:04.419 benji: Someone want to say something. 265 00:26:07.130 --> 00:26:10.830 benji: Ralph, would you like to talk about the current state of the project? Browser. 266 00:26:14.190 --> 00:26:16.252 Ralf Koller: I could quickly 267 00:26:18.740 --> 00:26:23.930 Ralf Koller: at the moment. The current state is basically 268 00:26:26.090 --> 00:26:28.050 Ralf Koller: I think everyone is aware 269 00:26:28.120 --> 00:26:29.739 Ralf Koller: what project Browser is. 270 00:26:31.131 --> 00:26:34.880 Ralf Koller: Current State is actually at the moment. 271 00:26:35.810 --> 00:26:36.620 Ralf Koller: That 272 00:26:37.330 --> 00:26:45.239 Ralf Koller: the Triple Association is creating the endpoint on triple dot, oval org 273 00:26:45.610 --> 00:26:50.260 Ralf Koller: or project browser at the moment it is still using the mock 274 00:26:50.790 --> 00:26:52.130 Ralf Koller: locally. 275 00:26:52.420 --> 00:26:54.180 Ralf Koller: and as soon as 276 00:26:54.510 --> 00:27:01.750 Ralf Koller: that endpoint is available it's get moved over. And if you take a look oh, one second, I quickly. 277 00:27:01.810 --> 00:27:10.747 Ralf Koller: That's 1 detail we could quickly talk about. Just need to configure it's an change that got in about 2 days ago. 278 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:13.899 Ralf Koller: If I have. 279 00:27:13.950 --> 00:27:15.699 Ralf Koller: if you could reload, please 280 00:27:16.100 --> 00:27:16.990 Ralf Koller: a page. 281 00:27:16.990 --> 00:27:19.590 benji: Oh, this is my local site. 282 00:27:19.590 --> 00:27:21.100 Ralf Koller: Oh, you oh, sorry! 283 00:27:21.710 --> 00:27:23.190 Ralf Koller: Yep. Online 284 00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:26.419 Ralf Koller: on the site I'm sharing. 285 00:27:27.890 --> 00:27:29.460 Ralf Koller: just admin admin. 286 00:27:42.800 --> 00:27:44.479 benji: And then configuration. 287 00:27:44.770 --> 00:27:46.040 Ralf Koller: No in on extent. 288 00:27:46.750 --> 00:27:47.514 benji: Okay. 289 00:27:50.430 --> 00:27:51.810 Ralf Koller: And then on to browse. 290 00:27:58.840 --> 00:28:02.260 Ralf Koller: and, as you can see now, the source 291 00:28:02.710 --> 00:28:05.100 Ralf Koller: Plugin source is available for recipes 292 00:28:05.490 --> 00:28:09.140 Ralf Koller: that got added about 2 days ago. At the moment it is 293 00:28:09.300 --> 00:28:12.109 Ralf Koller: showing the recipes that are 294 00:28:12.260 --> 00:28:16.709 Ralf Koller: shipping this triple core within your dock road into in 295 00:28:17.330 --> 00:28:20.689 Ralf Koller: web. Core, and then recipes. 296 00:28:21.600 --> 00:28:25.149 Ralf Koller: Those are listed. But as soon as basically 297 00:28:27.280 --> 00:28:33.589 Ralf Koller: recipes are available on triple.org as well, then you could also add 298 00:28:33.820 --> 00:28:37.279 Ralf Koller: contrib modi browse and add contrap modules that way. 299 00:28:39.139 --> 00:28:39.790 Ralf Koller: But 300 00:28:40.030 --> 00:28:48.530 Ralf Koller: the moment, as you can see, that is one of the problems project. Browser is basically labeling everything with 301 00:28:48.710 --> 00:28:51.759 Ralf Koller: project. So everything is a module. 302 00:28:52.110 --> 00:28:58.729 Ralf Koller: but recipes is using sort of a different terminology in parts. For example. 303 00:28:58.860 --> 00:29:01.480 Ralf Koller: you don't install a module, but 304 00:29:01.660 --> 00:29:04.089 Ralf Koller: you apply a recipe. 305 00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:22.359 Ralf Koller: and also the question of May. If those filters, like maintained, covered by security, policy, and maintenance status, apply, as well as the question of what kind of filler categories you need for recipes and how to handle things like the question. 306 00:29:22.700 --> 00:29:27.615 Ralf Koller: Contract modules like Mike. Some was always Eca 307 00:29:28.290 --> 00:29:31.789 Ralf Koller: If they create their own vocabulary 308 00:29:31.940 --> 00:29:34.300 Ralf Koller: and their own 309 00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:36.150 Ralf Koller: categories. 310 00:29:37.530 --> 00:29:41.370 Ralf Koller: are they integrated into the entire recipes? 311 00:29:41.490 --> 00:29:45.709 Ralf Koller: Vocabulary? Or are they separate? And all those questions 312 00:29:47.190 --> 00:29:49.060 Ralf Koller: at the moment? It's just 313 00:29:49.190 --> 00:29:51.659 Ralf Koller: yeah, a bit hard to comprehend. 314 00:29:52.950 --> 00:29:54.810 benji: That's a good point. So 315 00:29:55.110 --> 00:29:57.289 benji: a lot of work for the 316 00:29:57.510 --> 00:30:00.359 benji: project Browser has gone into 317 00:30:00.580 --> 00:30:03.370 benji: the list of categories. 318 00:30:03.650 --> 00:30:07.709 benji: access control, accessibility, administration tools, and so forth. 319 00:30:10.380 --> 00:30:15.019 benji: and recategorizing existing modules on drupal.org with this 320 00:30:15.300 --> 00:30:18.450 benji: more limited set of categories. 321 00:30:18.620 --> 00:30:19.930 benji: And then 322 00:30:20.050 --> 00:30:23.759 benji: we're now adding recipes to project, Browser. 323 00:30:24.870 --> 00:30:28.810 benji: It's not at all clear that this is the right set of categories. 324 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:30.350 benji: 4 recipes. 325 00:30:30.840 --> 00:30:32.385 Ralf Koller: Not at all. 326 00:30:33.450 --> 00:30:35.820 Ralf Koller: I would completely 327 00:30:36.940 --> 00:30:39.950 Ralf Koller: go with a different set of categories there. 328 00:30:40.970 --> 00:30:43.059 Ralf Koller: and they already have a 329 00:30:43.130 --> 00:30:45.049 Ralf Koller: draft one. But 330 00:30:47.070 --> 00:30:48.560 Ralf Koller: I'm not sure if it's 331 00:30:49.850 --> 00:30:54.689 Ralf Koller: really usable yet, and it would if it would make sense, go with it. I have to look 332 00:30:54.850 --> 00:30:56.190 Ralf Koller: where it is in search. 333 00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:00.819 benji: Okay? So so, as you said, this is 334 00:31:02.630 --> 00:31:03.530 benji: Filler. 335 00:31:03.780 --> 00:31:06.090 benji: This is the initial version of 336 00:31:06.210 --> 00:31:07.999 benji: having recipes listed 337 00:31:08.060 --> 00:31:12.820 benji: in the project, Browser, and it will obviously change a lot 338 00:31:12.840 --> 00:31:14.850 benji: over the next few months. 339 00:31:14.850 --> 00:31:15.880 Ralf Koller: The 1st 340 00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:27.670 Ralf Koller: initial patch to surface and create a touch point in the user interface for users with recipes. Before that it was entirely based on the command line. So. 341 00:31:31.900 --> 00:31:34.400 Ralf Koller: and it's also the oops go first.st 342 00:31:35.010 --> 00:31:35.770 benji: No go ahead! 343 00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:41.230 Ralf Koller: Also, it is to note that some contrib module maintainer started 344 00:31:41.290 --> 00:31:48.150 Ralf Koller: to add basically recipes for their modules within the releases. So basically just 345 00:31:48.650 --> 00:31:50.449 Ralf Koller: month clue. Martin. 346 00:31:51.790 --> 00:31:52.710 Ralf Koller: just 347 00:31:52.910 --> 00:31:59.139 Ralf Koller: made all his modules, or most of them recipe ready. Let's put it that way. And 348 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:04.109 Ralf Koller: so basically, recipes are shipping with the regular 349 00:32:04.260 --> 00:32:05.270 Ralf Koller: releases. 350 00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:16.469 benji: Okay, and I'm afraid I I haven't been paying attention to the zoom chat. So let me 351 00:32:16.610 --> 00:32:18.490 benji: see if we can get caught up now. 352 00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:29.490 benji: so Ralph posted the link that I visited for issues for the 353 00:32:30.210 --> 00:32:31.880 benji: automatic updates. 354 00:32:38.580 --> 00:32:44.899 benji: and package manager is part of automatic Updates and is used by Project Browser as well. 355 00:32:47.330 --> 00:32:50.330 benji: Scott posted a link to this blog post. 356 00:32:50.370 --> 00:32:51.500 benji: The 357 00:32:54.520 --> 00:32:59.200 benji: front end builder. Is this another name for the experience builder. 358 00:32:59.390 --> 00:33:09.420 Scott Carpenter: No, there's it's a new initiative. So like package manager, they wanted. People want to be able to get Javascript assets into a more composable 359 00:33:10.324 --> 00:33:14.330 Scott Carpenter: situation for drupal and target and project and star shot overall. 360 00:33:14.470 --> 00:33:18.990 Scott Carpenter: So the instead of just using composer to try to handle 361 00:33:19.120 --> 00:33:21.429 Scott Carpenter: node packages and whatnot they want to 362 00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:23.550 Scott Carpenter: a new tool for actually bundling 363 00:33:26.620 --> 00:33:31.089 Scott Carpenter: cause this is automatic updates, is Job bundling Javascript. Of course. 364 00:33:34.010 --> 00:33:35.498 benji: Okay, so this is 365 00:33:35.950 --> 00:33:40.620 benji: just posted yesterday. So this is hot off the presses. 366 00:33:40.730 --> 00:33:43.459 benji: And it's it's a community initiative that's not 367 00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:45.730 benji: part of the starshot initiative, but 368 00:33:46.250 --> 00:33:49.259 benji: if it gained some traction, maybe it will be rolled in 369 00:33:53.290 --> 00:34:00.480 benji: If you have a module with Javascript dependencies, speak to up to have your module included in the prototype prototype and make a pull. Request 370 00:34:18.580 --> 00:34:20.110 benji: and I guess 371 00:34:21.270 --> 00:34:24.950 benji: So this is a blog post on drupal.org, and it 372 00:34:25.190 --> 00:34:27.360 benji: says it is adapted from 373 00:34:29.010 --> 00:34:30.830 benji: a personal blog post 374 00:34:32.489 --> 00:34:35.719 benji: and defining a new way of working with javascript and drupal 375 00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:44.730 benji: which is not quite as new. It's from last week rather than from yesterday. 376 00:34:49.100 --> 00:34:52.680 benji: And this is the 1st time I've seen it. Anything more to say about that, Scott. 377 00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:59.440 Scott Carpenter: No, no, just that. It was sort of the extension of getting assets into drupal and into 378 00:34:59.990 --> 00:35:01.729 Scott Carpenter: things that are updatable as well. 379 00:35:02.500 --> 00:35:04.069 Scott Carpenter: And this is sort of the goal around 380 00:35:04.670 --> 00:35:07.889 Scott Carpenter: the biggest you know. The biggest hole we have in the libraries is being able to update them. 381 00:35:09.060 --> 00:35:13.100 benji: Okay? And then Ralph posted 2 links related to 382 00:35:14.236 --> 00:35:15.870 benji: wordpress playground. 383 00:35:18.150 --> 00:35:19.260 benji: which is. 384 00:35:19.720 --> 00:35:26.440 benji: I guess, Wordpress already has something where it lets you run it in the browser using webassembly. 385 00:35:31.060 --> 00:35:34.830 benji: so here's the homepage, wordpress.org slash, playground. 386 00:35:37.430 --> 00:35:44.119 benji: Here's the Github repository wordpress, slash wordpress, press dash playground, on Github. 387 00:35:48.620 --> 00:35:50.230 benji: So you know. 388 00:35:51.550 --> 00:35:54.620 benji: apparently it works despite my skepticism. 389 00:35:55.020 --> 00:35:56.830 benji: And 390 00:35:57.300 --> 00:36:02.160 benji: here's a particular issue. Is this, the star shot issue for. 391 00:36:04.150 --> 00:36:11.029 Ralf Koller: No, from my understanding. They want to create a a static version for the Ui of Experience builder. 392 00:36:11.540 --> 00:36:13.499 Ralf Koller: and that it would be easier to test 393 00:36:14.310 --> 00:36:15.370 Ralf Koller: along the side. 394 00:36:15.850 --> 00:36:19.890 Ralf Koller: But and I've fostered that in the context of yeah. 395 00:36:20.180 --> 00:36:21.489 Ralf Koller: us looking at it 396 00:36:21.590 --> 00:36:22.750 Ralf Koller: at 1 point. 397 00:36:24.850 --> 00:36:26.003 benji: Okay, yes. 398 00:36:28.490 --> 00:36:35.460 benji: So I guess one thing we we could say about experience Builder, that we already know about it. The the data module still under 399 00:36:35.730 --> 00:36:36.940 benji: debate. But 400 00:36:37.580 --> 00:36:40.699 benji: we're we're certainly planning to have it be 401 00:36:41.770 --> 00:36:46.120 benji: some sort of Javascript front end react, or angular, or something like that. 402 00:36:47.550 --> 00:36:51.069 benji: to give a a better editor experience. 403 00:36:51.230 --> 00:36:52.499 benji: and that much 404 00:36:52.890 --> 00:36:56.490 benji: can be hosted statically. And I guess that's what this issue is about. 405 00:37:00.450 --> 00:37:01.940 benji: so you would think that 406 00:37:03.080 --> 00:37:05.310 benji: someone would post a link in the 407 00:37:05.450 --> 00:37:07.720 benji: issue summary, saying where to find it? 408 00:37:23.860 --> 00:37:28.779 benji: And then the community initiative we were just talking about, for Javascript 409 00:37:29.250 --> 00:37:30.590 benji: uses 410 00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:37.380 benji: this library. Fxpio slash foxy. 411 00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:45.379 benji: a composer, plugin to automate, validation, installation 412 00:37:45.560 --> 00:37:48.529 benji: updating and removing of php libraries. 413 00:37:48.930 --> 00:37:52.350 benji: asset dependencies javascript style, sheets etc. 414 00:37:52.490 --> 00:37:55.299 benji: defined in the Npm. Package. Json. 415 00:37:56.440 --> 00:37:57.830 benji: So 416 00:37:58.970 --> 00:38:02.410 benji: a very brief summary of this is that it's supposed to integrate 417 00:38:03.610 --> 00:38:09.659 benji: composer and Npm. Or or let you install Npm. Packages from composer 418 00:38:10.690 --> 00:38:15.950 benji: in the context of star shot, the initiative would be relevant for the web form module. Why is that. 419 00:38:18.184 --> 00:38:22.059 Ralf Koller: At the moment. Of course, web form requires 420 00:38:22.570 --> 00:38:28.730 Ralf Koller: a set of dependencies that have to be installed manually or at start with Star short, it's 421 00:38:29.210 --> 00:38:35.489 Ralf Koller: automated in some way at the moment. But yeah, with something like that, it would be more stable. 422 00:38:36.520 --> 00:38:39.640 benji: That's right. The web form is a big user of Javascript, and 423 00:38:41.850 --> 00:38:44.999 benji: and it needs some way to install those. So 424 00:38:46.980 --> 00:38:49.130 benji: so that would be really helpful 425 00:38:52.030 --> 00:38:54.879 benji: cool. I think I'm caught up on the zoom chat 426 00:39:14.680 --> 00:39:18.680 benji: and Ralph, or anyone anything else to say about Project Browser. 427 00:39:22.570 --> 00:39:27.726 Andrei Zvonkov: There is an issue that was discussed couple of weeks ago. I wasn't in the meeting but 428 00:39:28.080 --> 00:39:32.481 Andrei Zvonkov: I try to re-watch as much as I can. It was about the 429 00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:35.380 Andrei Zvonkov: the filters. 430 00:39:37.830 --> 00:39:38.710 Andrei Zvonkov: and 431 00:39:40.060 --> 00:39:42.849 Andrei Zvonkov: yeah. So I've started to look into that issue. 432 00:39:43.460 --> 00:39:46.650 Andrei Zvonkov: It is, I'm fairly new to contribute 433 00:39:46.890 --> 00:39:54.790 Andrei Zvonkov: in that sense. Yeah, so this is the current state of it. And there's some discussion about changing the filters and moving the category 434 00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:56.560 Andrei Zvonkov: categories to the top. 435 00:39:56.620 --> 00:40:00.180 Andrei Zvonkov: So that's what I'm currently actually working on. 436 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:02.510 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, so 437 00:40:03.780 --> 00:40:15.979 Andrei Zvonkov: it is being moved. And it is being so yeah, Ralph, thanks for the feedback. So I I just yesterday I push some things also related to the 438 00:40:18.120 --> 00:40:29.087 Andrei Zvonkov: you know, moving those categories on into the top, and we're kinda now trying to figure out what's the sort of the priority of things in that top section would be as in 439 00:40:30.550 --> 00:40:33.076 Andrei Zvonkov: search, being 440 00:40:35.130 --> 00:40:42.340 Andrei Zvonkov: like the most important, the search bar itself is the most important part, and then the filters below that. 441 00:40:44.940 --> 00:40:45.750 Andrei Zvonkov: yeah. 442 00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:50.860 Andrei Zvonkov: I mean, I can show I can show the stuff that I have at this point. 443 00:40:51.430 --> 00:40:52.730 Andrei Zvonkov: and 444 00:40:52.810 --> 00:40:55.050 Andrei Zvonkov: if we want to go more in depth 445 00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:04.210 Andrei Zvonkov: with that we can. But if not, then I guess we can move on because we're still kinda figuring things out 446 00:41:04.620 --> 00:41:08.090 Andrei Zvonkov: in the issue itself. But if you want some visuals 447 00:41:08.420 --> 00:41:09.629 Andrei Zvonkov: I can share. 448 00:41:10.150 --> 00:41:17.250 benji: Yeah, why, why don't you get that set up? And we just have one more star shot component to talk about. 449 00:41:17.670 --> 00:41:22.529 benji: And when I'm done with that I'll or release the screen share and let you take over. Okay. 450 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:24.260 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, sounds good. 451 00:41:25.930 --> 00:41:28.160 benji: Alright. So the last piece is 452 00:41:28.260 --> 00:41:30.000 benji: recipes, which 453 00:41:30.180 --> 00:41:33.010 benji: we we already looked at, because they are 454 00:41:33.050 --> 00:41:35.189 benji: now in the project. Browser 455 00:41:39.210 --> 00:41:40.490 benji: And it's 456 00:41:42.170 --> 00:41:47.320 benji: in a way, a way to bundle some configuration and install it. 457 00:41:47.590 --> 00:41:54.019 benji: It is comparable to the good old features. Module from drupal 6 and 7 458 00:41:55.630 --> 00:41:58.999 benji: feature is still a thing in in modern drupal as well. 459 00:42:00.140 --> 00:42:01.720 benji: and 460 00:42:01.740 --> 00:42:06.351 benji: it's also comparable to having a 461 00:42:07.250 --> 00:42:10.330 benji: a distribution or an installation profile. 462 00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:13.130 benji: the 463 00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:18.589 benji: the big challenge with distributions is that they are so hard to maintain. 464 00:42:19.391 --> 00:42:21.300 benji: You can only apply one. 465 00:42:21.680 --> 00:42:23.039 benji: And then, 466 00:42:24.410 --> 00:42:30.039 benji: you know, a distribution typically involves a lot of modules, and they have their own update schedules. And 467 00:42:30.570 --> 00:42:36.440 benji: it's hard to update the individual modules until they are updated in the distribution. 468 00:42:37.510 --> 00:42:40.460 benji: recipes aims to be 469 00:42:41.120 --> 00:42:43.991 benji: 1st of all, more more atomic. 470 00:42:44.510 --> 00:42:47.500 benji: you! You have like one little feature in a recipe. 471 00:42:49.230 --> 00:42:54.619 benji: You're allowed to apply as many recipes as you like. They're they shouldn't interfere with each other. 472 00:42:55.310 --> 00:42:57.660 benji: And there's there's 473 00:42:58.240 --> 00:43:03.009 benji: mostly they're creating configuration. To some extent they're also creating content. 474 00:43:03.350 --> 00:43:06.620 benji: And once you've applied recipe. 475 00:43:08.180 --> 00:43:14.229 benji: you just manage the configuration and content as you do other configuration and content on your website. 476 00:43:15.870 --> 00:43:18.880 benji: you know you, you don't have to worry about 477 00:43:19.350 --> 00:43:27.600 benji: and and updates status for the recipe. And there's also a downside of that which is that as a new improved version of the recipe comes along. 478 00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:32.030 benji: there's no mechanism to upgrade to it. 479 00:43:34.030 --> 00:43:37.800 benji: So we saw them listed in the project, browser 480 00:43:38.458 --> 00:43:40.429 benji: when I set up my sites 481 00:43:41.850 --> 00:43:45.180 benji: before this meeting, just standard 482 00:43:46.264 --> 00:43:49.035 benji: umami installation. I noticed that 483 00:43:50.893 --> 00:43:52.280 benji: some messages 484 00:43:53.741 --> 00:43:59.220 benji: on the screen that some recipes weren't found, so I I think the umami 485 00:43:59.630 --> 00:44:04.720 benji: profile is in the process of being converted into recipes. 486 00:44:04.910 --> 00:44:06.072 benji: and I think 487 00:44:06.980 --> 00:44:09.239 benji: The the error messages I saw 488 00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:13.600 benji: during installation related to the fact that it's not quite 489 00:44:13.710 --> 00:44:15.519 benji: quite finished that conversion. 490 00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:29.559 benji: the Apis for the recipe initiative are all in drupal. 10.3. I think they're still marked as experimental. 491 00:44:30.810 --> 00:44:31.610 benji: and 492 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:34.973 benji: as we saw in the project. Browser. 493 00:44:37.150 --> 00:44:41.290 benji: 26 recipes are already included in drupal core. 494 00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:50.329 benji: Anything more to say about recipes at this point? 495 00:44:51.980 --> 00:44:52.960 benji: Go ahead, Ralph. 496 00:44:54.953 --> 00:45:01.599 Ralf Koller: Just one observation. We've played a little bit with recipes yesterday at the Tripod Show 497 00:45:01.650 --> 00:45:02.790 Ralf Koller: and 498 00:45:03.690 --> 00:45:06.329 Ralf Koller: we've tried to install. 499 00:45:06.450 --> 00:45:09.175 Ralf Koller: for example, the the block recipe 500 00:45:10.110 --> 00:45:14.155 Ralf Koller: and the interesting detail about is 501 00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:24.800 Ralf Koller: We've deleted. Then the entities, basically that are built with that recipe. And then we've tried to install it again. And 502 00:45:25.430 --> 00:45:32.110 Ralf Koller: you technically wire the terminal you're able to. And but on in 503 00:45:32.250 --> 00:45:44.359 Ralf Koller: Project Browser or not, it's just one detail to note that basically, there is some sort of lock inside of state in that key value table. I guess it's called 504 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:51.879 Ralf Koller: which recipes were installed, and that there, we've seen that it? Basically, we had 505 00:45:52.130 --> 00:45:55.879 Ralf Koller: install the blocks recipe 3 times in a row 506 00:45:58.390 --> 00:46:01.880 Ralf Koller: that way. But just that's just a detail that is also not 507 00:46:02.350 --> 00:46:04.750 Ralf Koller: very apparent or visible. Directly. 508 00:46:06.620 --> 00:46:08.080 benji: And 509 00:46:16.150 --> 00:46:16.910 benji: right. 510 00:46:18.130 --> 00:46:24.690 benji: So just scrolling down this page a little bit phase one is complete that, as I said, parts of it are in tuple core. 511 00:46:25.080 --> 00:46:27.280 benji: and we're now in phase 2 512 00:46:28.450 --> 00:46:30.730 benji: there's a roadmap issue. 513 00:46:33.833 --> 00:46:38.300 benji: Installing recipes via the ui looks like that'll be part of Project Browser 514 00:46:38.680 --> 00:46:41.109 benji: creating recipes from 515 00:46:41.300 --> 00:46:43.850 benji: command, line utility or the user interface. 516 00:46:45.250 --> 00:46:46.950 benji: Let's just have a 517 00:46:47.720 --> 00:46:49.440 benji: quick look at the roadmap. 518 00:46:52.180 --> 00:46:55.389 Simo Hellsten: Does it have only installing recipes as well? 519 00:46:55.550 --> 00:46:59.220 Simo Hellsten: So is this something. Kind of a new group of user can 520 00:46:59.510 --> 00:47:04.679 Simo Hellsten: try out and see what is this, and then uninstall it, and then try something else. 521 00:47:10.930 --> 00:47:13.789 benji: So. So I'm sorry. Was there a question there, or just a comment? 522 00:47:14.550 --> 00:47:15.920 Simo Hellsten: A question. 523 00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:18.410 benji: So. Could you repeat the question? 524 00:47:18.703 --> 00:47:20.170 Simo Hellsten: So is it possible to 525 00:47:20.200 --> 00:47:20.725 Simo Hellsten: like? 526 00:47:21.994 --> 00:47:25.839 Simo Hellsten: I didn't know notice mentioned there, so you can try 527 00:47:25.900 --> 00:47:30.069 Simo Hellsten: one recipe recipe, then uninstall it, then try another one 528 00:47:32.350 --> 00:47:33.090 Simo Hellsten: you still like. 529 00:47:33.090 --> 00:47:34.160 benji: I 530 00:47:34.420 --> 00:47:41.250 benji: I think that's on on the roadmap. I don't think it's possible yet. Route, Ralph. Do you know differently. 531 00:47:42.770 --> 00:47:46.271 Ralf Koller: it's not, it is. It should be possible. But 532 00:47:48.660 --> 00:47:56.679 Ralf Koller: Shortly after you've applied a recipe, and you haven't changed much of the configuration, then it is possible. 533 00:47:56.960 --> 00:48:02.689 Ralf Koller: but it is. They are hesitant to make it basically a common feature 534 00:48:03.290 --> 00:48:04.470 Ralf Koller: course. It's 535 00:48:05.330 --> 00:48:08.179 Ralf Koller: could be problematic as far as I understood. 536 00:48:09.870 --> 00:48:10.910 benji: Right. I I've 537 00:48:11.250 --> 00:48:14.040 benji: I've seen this line that I'm highlighting before. 538 00:48:14.795 --> 00:48:19.069 benji: Create config checkpoints and allow recipes to be reverted 539 00:48:19.980 --> 00:48:21.560 benji: so that I so 540 00:48:22.150 --> 00:48:24.789 benji: so it looks like it's on the roadmap. 541 00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:30.399 benji: you you you can't install it today and and change your mind 6 months from now. 542 00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:35.850 benji: But if you install it today, and you don't like it. Then there should be some way to undo it. 543 00:48:36.070 --> 00:48:38.590 benji: Go back to the the checkpoint. 544 00:48:43.070 --> 00:48:44.500 benji: Does that sound about right? 545 00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:47.059 Scott Carpenter: Yeah, think so. 546 00:48:48.500 --> 00:48:50.579 benji: And Simo, does that answer your question? 547 00:48:51.620 --> 00:48:53.180 Simo Hellsten: Yes. Thanks. Good. 548 00:48:54.390 --> 00:48:56.790 benji: And Ralph gives a thumbs up. So he agrees. 549 00:48:58.060 --> 00:49:03.150 benji: okay, Andre, are you ready to take over the screen? Share. 550 00:49:04.010 --> 00:49:05.180 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, sure, I can. 551 00:49:05.979 --> 00:49:09.749 benji: Any last comments before I stop talking about starshot? 552 00:49:12.200 --> 00:49:13.820 benji: Okay, go ahead, Andre. 553 00:49:19.850 --> 00:49:20.810 Andrei Zvonkov: Let me know 554 00:49:20.940 --> 00:49:22.559 Andrei Zvonkov: when it comes up. 555 00:49:25.020 --> 00:49:26.603 benji: I see your screen now. 556 00:49:26.920 --> 00:49:27.670 Andrei Zvonkov: Okay. 557 00:49:29.130 --> 00:49:33.560 Andrei Zvonkov: so yeah, this is the issue. Again, that 558 00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:35.310 Andrei Zvonkov: was discussed 559 00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:37.379 Andrei Zvonkov: couple of meetings ago. 560 00:49:38.180 --> 00:49:40.829 benji: And for the sake of the recording, can you read out the issue number. 561 00:49:41.230 --> 00:49:43.467 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, so 3, 3, 1, 8, 562 00:49:43.930 --> 00:49:45.920 Andrei Zvonkov: 8, 1, 7. 563 00:49:50.470 --> 00:49:52.163 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah. So 564 00:49:56.700 --> 00:49:59.174 Andrei Zvonkov: the current state of things. 565 00:50:01.416 --> 00:50:05.210 Andrei Zvonkov: again. So this I'm I'm just gonna go to the bottom, the 566 00:50:06.010 --> 00:50:09.790 Andrei Zvonkov: to the last comment there by. 567 00:50:11.560 --> 00:50:25.469 Andrei Zvonkov: And this is the just as of yesterday, or actually, yeah, 17 h ago. So this is the current state of things as they were. Again, we have the search bar. We have the filters, the Ca, the categories on the left. 568 00:50:26.420 --> 00:50:27.110 Andrei Zvonkov: I mean. 569 00:50:28.390 --> 00:50:29.360 Andrei Zvonkov: So 570 00:50:30.720 --> 00:50:44.120 Andrei Zvonkov: from that meeting, the decision, I I believe, was to move the the categories to the top as well. So that's what I've been looking into and basically try to 571 00:50:45.370 --> 00:50:58.281 Andrei Zvonkov: put things in in in into here. Well, they're already kind of reshuffled. So I just pulled the the latest changes and try to work with the styles for the most part, or like mobile breakpoints and 572 00:50:59.650 --> 00:51:01.530 Andrei Zvonkov: arranging things 573 00:51:02.438 --> 00:51:06.599 Andrei Zvonkov: in the proper way, and and have them work responsibly. So 574 00:51:06.930 --> 00:51:09.304 Andrei Zvonkov: this is the current state again. 575 00:51:10.540 --> 00:51:12.339 Andrei Zvonkov: based on rough 576 00:51:12.510 --> 00:51:15.909 Andrei Zvonkov: Ralph. Your comment last comment. 577 00:51:18.460 --> 00:51:21.520 Andrei Zvonkov: we I initially, I had all the 578 00:51:21.850 --> 00:51:24.623 Andrei Zvonkov: form items on the same line, but we've 579 00:51:25.950 --> 00:51:29.729 Andrei Zvonkov: Ralph mentioned that it it. It is probably 580 00:51:30.020 --> 00:51:33.539 Andrei Zvonkov: better to have this search as as the main. 581 00:51:34.520 --> 00:51:38.039 Andrei Zvonkov: like the main form elements spanning the full width. 582 00:51:39.070 --> 00:51:41.369 Andrei Zvonkov: and then all the filters here 583 00:51:42.020 --> 00:51:42.879 Andrei Zvonkov: below that. 584 00:51:43.390 --> 00:51:53.150 Andrei Zvonkov: And this is sort of like breaking into more about mobile and stuff. And so there's some stuff that is actually hidden that needs to be taken out. 585 00:51:53.710 --> 00:51:57.360 Andrei Zvonkov: the categories being hidden on Mobile. So that was 586 00:51:57.490 --> 00:51:59.379 Andrei Zvonkov: came through when the 587 00:52:00.620 --> 00:52:12.839 Andrei Zvonkov: categories were on the left there were collapse and mobile. So this is the current state of things. I I guess I'm looking for opinions in terms of how this could be improved. I actually 588 00:52:13.550 --> 00:52:17.290 Andrei Zvonkov: sort of liked. Where was it. 589 00:52:19.340 --> 00:52:22.649 benji: Can you show us what happens when you click on one of those select lists 590 00:52:22.900 --> 00:52:24.320 benji: so we can see the 591 00:52:24.510 --> 00:52:25.610 benji: the interface. 592 00:52:27.050 --> 00:52:29.469 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, sure hold on a sec. So 593 00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:35.769 Andrei Zvonkov: tabs here. So this is, yeah, this still needs work. 594 00:52:35.820 --> 00:52:36.950 Andrei Zvonkov: as in 595 00:52:37.650 --> 00:52:42.030 Andrei Zvonkov: this is click sexually, and probably additional styling and stuff. 596 00:52:42.820 --> 00:52:43.615 Andrei Zvonkov: But 597 00:52:45.540 --> 00:52:53.070 Andrei Zvonkov: oops, yeah, I guess when you click on to it kind of just disappears. I haven't even actually looked at this yet 598 00:52:53.720 --> 00:52:56.600 Andrei Zvonkov: I'm mostly focused on the 599 00:52:58.650 --> 00:53:02.500 Andrei Zvonkov: just the layout of the form items format. Let's 600 00:53:02.550 --> 00:53:07.279 Andrei Zvonkov: so. These are the categories, and I guess all that is 601 00:53:11.060 --> 00:53:15.039 Andrei Zvonkov: is here. And what I was gonna mention to you, I kind of actually like 602 00:53:15.080 --> 00:53:19.480 Andrei Zvonkov: the way they were hidden here. I'm not sure at what point this got removed. 603 00:53:19.830 --> 00:53:24.849 Andrei Zvonkov: But this is the state of things where I've actually checked out the 604 00:53:25.020 --> 00:53:33.519 Andrei Zvonkov: the branch. They were kind of changed to the select lists as opposed to radio buttons, I guess. So that was one of the decisions that probably 605 00:53:34.050 --> 00:53:36.252 Andrei Zvonkov: was made at some point, too. 606 00:53:37.520 --> 00:53:39.740 Andrei Zvonkov: so yeah. 607 00:53:39.750 --> 00:53:43.040 Andrei Zvonkov: that's that. And then I guess on the issue 608 00:53:43.110 --> 00:53:47.879 Andrei Zvonkov: like, there's this example of the EU. Where was this 609 00:53:48.500 --> 00:53:50.639 Andrei Zvonkov: this type of setup? Right 610 00:53:52.410 --> 00:54:00.280 Andrei Zvonkov: where things are kind of inlined and the search is bigger, and then all of the I mean there is only 3 categories here. We have more. 611 00:54:00.690 --> 00:54:04.850 benji: Can. Can you open that screenshot in a separate tab? So we see it a little bit here. 612 00:54:06.470 --> 00:54:07.180 Andrei Zvonkov: Oops. 613 00:54:17.860 --> 00:54:18.640 Andrei Zvonkov: Yep. 614 00:54:23.140 --> 00:54:25.130 Andrei Zvonkov: I couldn't actually find this site. 615 00:54:25.140 --> 00:54:28.549 Andrei Zvonkov: I mean, I found the site, but not this specific page 616 00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:32.549 Andrei Zvonkov: might be helpful to add that in the 617 00:54:32.910 --> 00:54:34.460 Andrei Zvonkov: and then discussion. 618 00:54:37.410 --> 00:54:38.220 Andrei Zvonkov: yeah. 619 00:54:40.080 --> 00:54:48.610 Andrei Zvonkov: So I was also thinking that maybe you know, we kind of have this blue background and the search, I mean, everything is wrapped into this, the form 620 00:54:51.510 --> 00:54:58.310 Andrei Zvonkov: field set, you know the the whole thing. Maybe it makes sense to kind of separate that and make it look more 621 00:54:59.220 --> 00:55:06.990 Andrei Zvonkov: like it actually was. Here, as in search is separate, and then all the filters are kind of have a separate background. 622 00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:09.280 Andrei Zvonkov: So there's a bit more separation. 623 00:55:12.920 --> 00:55:19.749 benji: And Ralph says in the comments that the screenshot you were looking at is a mock up from the workshop and smashing magazine. 624 00:55:19.750 --> 00:55:28.059 Andrei Zvonkov: Oh, I see. Okay, right? Yeah, yeah, actually, yeah, I trying to find that article. Was it was the link posted here, too. I 625 00:55:28.500 --> 00:55:29.300 Andrei Zvonkov: no. 626 00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:31.849 Andrei Zvonkov: anyway. So yeah. 627 00:55:35.980 --> 00:55:40.810 benji: So what are the main decisions, or what's what's the next decision to be made 628 00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:42.929 benji: about this layout? 629 00:55:43.690 --> 00:55:49.469 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, that's a good question. Because, yeah, I'm trying. I'm I guess I'm looking for feedback. And you know. 630 00:55:49.630 --> 00:56:02.450 Andrei Zvonkov: I thought this would be a good opportunity to ask for like direct feedback if you have it right now. So my my thinking was again to maybe if we want to create more separation. 631 00:56:03.040 --> 00:56:04.450 Andrei Zvonkov: you know. It will be 632 00:56:04.550 --> 00:56:07.389 Andrei Zvonkov: probably fairly straightforward to move the search 633 00:56:07.690 --> 00:56:10.460 Andrei Zvonkov: out of the box completely. Out of this 634 00:56:12.920 --> 00:56:14.260 Andrei Zvonkov: you know the 635 00:56:15.590 --> 00:56:16.630 Andrei Zvonkov: this search. 636 00:56:16.740 --> 00:56:20.240 Andrei Zvonkov: All the search filters, maybe that 637 00:56:21.010 --> 00:56:23.360 Andrei Zvonkov: I don't know. Again, if these are 638 00:56:24.710 --> 00:56:27.340 Andrei Zvonkov: the categories and the statuses like. 639 00:56:28.100 --> 00:56:32.839 Andrei Zvonkov: if they should be select lists as opposed to the what what we used to have 640 00:56:33.070 --> 00:56:34.950 Andrei Zvonkov: in here hidden. 641 00:56:37.480 --> 00:56:39.160 Andrei Zvonkov: you know. So 642 00:56:40.980 --> 00:56:46.099 Andrei Zvonkov: I actually open a separate issue to try to remedy a little bit of the 643 00:56:46.270 --> 00:56:54.039 Andrei Zvonkov: the information density, and so digestibility of these cards. Everything seems to be very tight. 644 00:56:54.390 --> 00:57:02.170 Andrei Zvonkov: And so i i i have this issue for the spacing where I try to actually add more space to. 645 00:57:04.450 --> 00:57:06.610 Andrei Zvonkov: you know all the like. 646 00:57:07.110 --> 00:57:08.780 Andrei Zvonkov: The the vertical space. 647 00:57:09.220 --> 00:57:15.170 benji: Okay, let's say, save that issue for another day, I think. Scott and Simo have something they 648 00:57:15.350 --> 00:57:17.519 benji: like to say, go go ahead, Scott. 649 00:57:19.430 --> 00:57:22.320 Scott Carpenter: You were. Yeah, you were just asking about the wrapping 650 00:57:23.690 --> 00:57:27.310 Scott Carpenter: the filters with a details element which would be good for 651 00:57:27.470 --> 00:57:32.689 Scott Carpenter: small screen. So if people just want to be able to get to the tools they've selected the things that they want, and they want to just 652 00:57:33.260 --> 00:57:35.479 Scott Carpenter: get the entire thing out of the way. Then. 653 00:57:35.500 --> 00:57:37.619 Scott Carpenter: wrapping all of them with a detailed element. 654 00:57:37.830 --> 00:57:39.899 Scott Carpenter: reduces clutter on small screen, so that would be good. 655 00:57:41.220 --> 00:57:41.920 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah. 656 00:57:42.270 --> 00:57:43.860 Andrei Zvonkov: so, yeah, right, now. 657 00:57:43.860 --> 00:57:49.100 Scott Carpenter: Like you've got the sort of the there's a details element there. I don't know if that's a left over glitch or something. 658 00:57:50.490 --> 00:57:52.429 Scott Carpenter: See that little triangle under keywords. 659 00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:55.780 Andrei Zvonkov: You mean sorry which one. 660 00:57:56.060 --> 00:57:57.749 Scott Carpenter: See a little triangle. Yeah, that one. 661 00:57:58.840 --> 00:58:06.270 Andrei Zvonkov: The yeah. So this is the categories is it's part of the functionality that used to be there again when the categories were in the left column. 662 00:58:07.120 --> 00:58:08.160 Scott Carpenter: Bang on! That's just coming. 663 00:58:08.160 --> 00:58:11.069 Andrei Zvonkov: But you mean like we grab the whole thing. 664 00:58:11.730 --> 00:58:23.459 Scott Carpenter: Like if they were in the detail. Yeah. So if they were in the details element, so that in this screen they could still close down. How much header space this takes up right? They've people. A person is set what they want to see. 665 00:58:23.780 --> 00:58:25.590 Scott Carpenter: Now they just want to go down and see it. 666 00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:33.420 Scott Carpenter: they or and if they is this? Yeah. Sorry if it's Ajax. If they scroll to page 2 or page 7, suddenly. 667 00:58:33.470 --> 00:58:38.719 Scott Carpenter: that you go back to the top of the page, and the headers would be closed and out of the way, or they could be closing. 668 00:58:39.260 --> 00:58:41.210 Scott Carpenter: And that right like we're working on. 669 00:58:41.530 --> 00:58:49.950 Scott Carpenter: This is a browser and small screen. But if you you need to actually make the page short to to actually make it more like the aspect ratio of a phone. 670 00:58:50.060 --> 00:58:53.180 Scott Carpenter: Yeah. And this is what a user would see and have to scroll down. 671 00:58:53.180 --> 00:59:02.660 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, yeah, there's definitely a lot of stuff. In terms of even like this, this whole filtering happening. So yeah, that's why again, like I don't know at what point 672 00:59:04.250 --> 00:59:06.049 Andrei Zvonkov: this got removed. 673 00:59:07.600 --> 00:59:09.959 Andrei Zvonkov: but this potentially could go back. Then 674 00:59:10.760 --> 00:59:12.129 Andrei Zvonkov: step of setup 675 00:59:13.600 --> 00:59:14.370 Andrei Zvonkov: right. 676 00:59:15.320 --> 00:59:19.350 benji: We just have a few minutes left. Simbo, what did you want to say. 677 00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:26.311 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, it's about those selected select lists with only 2 options. So I think, 678 00:59:26.940 --> 00:59:30.120 Simo Hellsten: that's quite problematic, because 679 00:59:30.290 --> 00:59:47.310 Simo Hellsten: usually select lists are not recommended for 2 options only because then you, the user needs to have one additional click and it also hides the option. So that you, the user user doesn't see what are the options to select from in advance. 680 00:59:47.780 --> 00:59:52.000 Simo Hellsten: So that's kind of both hiding information and 681 00:59:52.070 --> 00:59:54.769 Simo Hellsten: adding more clicks to the selection. 682 00:59:55.490 --> 00:59:56.040 Andrei Zvonkov: Yep. 683 00:59:56.560 --> 01:00:00.179 benji: So what would you suggest? A toggle, a checkbox. 684 01:00:00.260 --> 01:00:01.860 benji: 2 radio buttons. 685 01:00:02.464 --> 01:00:13.040 Simo Hellsten: I think a toggle would take the least space. If if they problem is having a space, not enough space a toggle would do for 2 options 686 01:00:13.220 --> 01:00:17.289 Simo Hellsten: and radio buttons for a so small set of options would be 687 01:00:17.800 --> 01:00:18.675 Simo Hellsten: also 688 01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:23.199 Simo Hellsten: like it like it is like in this version. 689 01:00:23.590 --> 01:00:27.079 Simo Hellsten: but if if the main concern is to 690 01:00:27.640 --> 01:00:31.110 Simo Hellsten: save space, then we could use a toggle button 691 01:00:32.080 --> 01:00:33.250 Simo Hellsten: as well. 692 01:00:37.180 --> 01:00:43.810 Andrei Zvonkov: Ralph, do you know at what point this this was removed, or there's a decision to or to not use this. 693 01:00:44.520 --> 01:00:46.769 Andrei Zvonkov: I guess, like I don't have much 694 01:00:46.850 --> 01:00:48.740 Andrei Zvonkov: history going back. 695 01:00:51.190 --> 01:00:54.699 Ralf Koller: from my understanding. There's no real decision yet. It's 696 01:00:54.930 --> 01:00:58.379 Ralf Koller: all up for discussion still. But the point was 697 01:00:58.540 --> 01:01:01.540 Ralf Koller: technically at least to 698 01:01:02.120 --> 01:01:04.560 Ralf Koller: Antoine at the moment you had 699 01:01:04.730 --> 01:01:11.879 Ralf Koller: basically on the left, the filter category sidebar. And then on the top, those filters hidden under 700 01:01:11.950 --> 01:01:14.720 Ralf Koller: that collapsed toggle, and 701 01:01:15.220 --> 01:01:21.340 Ralf Koller: that the idea was to get it basically out and have filters as well as development, all 4 filters 702 01:01:21.590 --> 01:01:24.759 Ralf Koller: visible together or hidden together. And that was 703 01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:28.139 Ralf Koller: basically the reason behind, I think. 704 01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:29.140 Andrei Zvonkov: Right. 705 01:01:32.650 --> 01:01:33.360 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 706 01:01:33.520 --> 01:01:39.540 Simo Hellsten: but select, least, I think it's very problematic, because it's not meant for 707 01:01:39.810 --> 01:01:42.850 Simo Hellsten: binary options. A toggle 708 01:01:43.120 --> 01:01:46.139 Simo Hellsten: could do it. If toggle should can do be 709 01:01:46.170 --> 01:01:51.679 Simo Hellsten: there if it activates like, if it applies the effect immediately. 710 01:01:51.820 --> 01:01:55.409 Simo Hellsten: and maybe that does so. It could be a toggle. 711 01:01:57.750 --> 01:02:02.459 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, the. I guess. Then, we're kind of mixing, because this is a definitely a big 712 01:02:02.530 --> 01:02:07.559 Andrei Zvonkov: select list with lots of categories, lots of options right? And this 713 01:02:07.820 --> 01:02:09.650 Andrei Zvonkov: or 2. But then 714 01:02:10.920 --> 01:02:15.869 Andrei Zvonkov: we would need to be mixing the. This will definitely stay as a select list 715 01:02:16.280 --> 01:02:18.079 Andrei Zvonkov: if we're keeping it, you know, in that. 716 01:02:18.080 --> 01:02:22.229 benji: Yeah, so it it is sort of a confusing user experience to have 717 01:02:22.670 --> 01:02:30.460 benji: 4 select lists that look the same when they're closed. And then one of them, when you open it, has lots of options, and all the others have just 2. 718 01:02:30.540 --> 01:02:33.609 benji: Just have another minute or 2, Ralph. What do you want to say? 719 01:02:34.570 --> 01:02:45.449 Ralf Koller: Just one brief note in regards of that filter by category. Select list. I still think it would be helpful to add a 720 01:02:45.670 --> 01:02:47.399 Ralf Koller: all categories. 721 01:02:47.700 --> 01:02:52.400 Ralf Koller: option in there as well, and maybe also add 722 01:02:53.193 --> 01:02:58.980 Ralf Koller: some sort of apply button at the bottom, so that you can select several 723 01:02:59.560 --> 01:03:05.630 Ralf Koller: categories and then apply at the moment on every you see, basically a reflow underneath. 724 01:03:06.890 --> 01:03:10.949 Ralf Koller: on every click and every change, and 725 01:03:11.140 --> 01:03:14.010 Ralf Koller: have a single request at the end, might be 726 01:03:15.370 --> 01:03:17.840 Ralf Koller: less distracting and clearer 727 01:03:18.500 --> 01:03:19.510 Ralf Koller: as well. 728 01:03:25.590 --> 01:03:26.270 Ralf Koller: Right. 729 01:03:27.090 --> 01:03:29.081 benji: So may maybe the Ajax 730 01:03:30.200 --> 01:03:37.530 benji: call back on each select each time you make a change is not the best user experience. Okay, it is the end of the hour. 731 01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:43.889 benji: Thanks all for coming. And I'll be back home next week, I 732 01:03:44.030 --> 01:03:44.665 benji: with 733 01:03:45.310 --> 01:03:46.820 benji: My usual location. 734 01:03:47.310 --> 01:03:48.409 benji: hope to see you then. 735 01:03:49.470 --> 01:03:50.413 Thomas Howell: Thank you very much. 736 01:03:50.650 --> 01:03:52.459 Ralf Koller: You enjoyed the conference. 737 01:03:52.860 --> 01:03:53.550 benji: Like you.