WEBVTT 53 00:10:30.690 --> 00:10:35.249 benji: Welcome? This is the drupal usability meeting for July 5, th 2024. 54 00:10:35.630 --> 00:10:43.159 benji: I'm Benji Fisher, moderating and also present our Simo Helston sharing the screen, and we'll start off the conversation 55 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:45.129 benji: and offer. Shall 56 00:10:45.270 --> 00:10:47.679 benji: Rachel Hart and Ralph Kohler 57 00:10:47.820 --> 00:10:48.920 benji: go ahead, Simo. 58 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:55.020 Simo Hellsten: Thanks. 59 00:10:55.370 --> 00:10:58.479 Simo Hellsten: Benji. So this is issue number 60 00:10:59.050 --> 00:11:02.659 Simo Hellsten: 3, 4, 5, 5, 1, 5, 5. 61 00:11:03.340 --> 00:11:04.869 Simo Hellsten: So this is about. 62 00:11:06.282 --> 00:11:07.910 Simo Hellsten: This is a 63 00:11:07.980 --> 00:11:10.369 Simo Hellsten: follow up, follow up, issue from 64 00:11:10.640 --> 00:11:15.989 Simo Hellsten: showing machine name in, manage, form, display, and manage display, table row. 65 00:11:16.110 --> 00:11:18.669 Simo Hellsten: That's an issue we discussed 66 00:11:18.890 --> 00:11:21.230 Simo Hellsten: earlier. I made recommendations. 67 00:11:22.350 --> 00:11:24.819 Simo Hellsten: and this is about how the 68 00:11:25.550 --> 00:11:28.720 Simo Hellsten: machine name is displayed in a table. 69 00:11:29.350 --> 00:11:30.360 Simo Hellsten: So 70 00:11:31.030 --> 00:11:32.910 Simo Hellsten: the problem is that 71 00:11:37.502 --> 00:11:39.710 Simo Hellsten: the string gets hyphenated 72 00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:41.240 Simo Hellsten: when 73 00:11:41.410 --> 00:11:43.620 Simo Hellsten: split into several roles. 74 00:11:43.740 --> 00:11:45.309 Simo Hellsten: one or more rows. 75 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:52.920 Simo Hellsten: and that's something we wouldn't want with machine names to happen, because that's something that should be exact. 76 00:11:55.640 --> 00:11:57.200 Simo Hellsten: this also 77 00:11:57.250 --> 00:11:59.440 Simo Hellsten: I was looking at this earlier. 78 00:12:00.090 --> 00:12:02.559 Simo Hellsten: and notice that 79 00:12:04.090 --> 00:12:05.040 Simo Hellsten: on that 80 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:07.400 Simo Hellsten: on 81 00:12:08.140 --> 00:12:09.570 Simo Hellsten: that table 82 00:12:10.040 --> 00:12:12.369 Simo Hellsten: the label doesn't. 83 00:12:13.572 --> 00:12:16.350 Simo Hellsten: That what? It doesn't get hyphenated. 84 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:17.770 Simo Hellsten: But 85 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:21.460 Simo Hellsten: and the machine named us, and also 86 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.390 Simo Hellsten: some other parts do if they if it's required. 87 00:12:26.980 --> 00:12:27.625 Simo Hellsten: And 88 00:12:29.700 --> 00:12:30.500 Simo Hellsten: yeah. 89 00:12:30.850 --> 00:12:35.980 Simo Hellsten: so and this is something that happens, probably also elsewhere 90 00:12:36.700 --> 00:12:38.399 Simo Hellsten: in the system. 91 00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:39.750 Simo Hellsten: Mutt. 92 00:12:40.060 --> 00:12:44.150 Simo Hellsten: I didn't get to look at all the different places where we have 93 00:12:44.260 --> 00:12:45.539 Simo Hellsten: similar kind of 94 00:12:46.060 --> 00:12:48.049 Simo Hellsten: strings in a table. 95 00:12:52.310 --> 00:12:53.950 Simo Hellsten: And so here 96 00:12:56.084 --> 00:12:59.589 Simo Hellsten: the problem is quite clear. 97 00:13:00.224 --> 00:13:03.060 Simo Hellsten: To me, so do do you get the problem? 98 00:13:07.490 --> 00:13:09.439 Simo Hellsten: Is the problem here clear. 99 00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:13.760 Ralf Koller: The hive isn't part of the machine name. 100 00:13:14.690 --> 00:13:16.009 Ralf Koller: Yeah, that's yeah. 101 00:13:17.384 --> 00:13:21.275 Simo Hellsten: And the machine is got. It's kind of for someone who knows 102 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:27.990 Simo Hellsten: that machines can't can't have hyphens in them. It's not allowed so they could just ignore that. But 103 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.070 Simo Hellsten: people who don't might. 104 00:13:31.490 --> 00:13:33.250 Simo Hellsten: It's in separate, but 105 00:13:34.716 --> 00:13:35.690 Simo Hellsten: so it 106 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:39.929 Simo Hellsten: there is different kind of possible fixes here. 107 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:48.820 Simo Hellsten: And one of them is obviously not to allow 108 00:13:49.010 --> 00:13:50.670 Simo Hellsten: the machine name to break. 109 00:13:51.210 --> 00:13:54.920 Simo Hellsten: and instead, when there is not enough space to hide it. 110 00:13:55.230 --> 00:13:56.400 Simo Hellsten: and I don't 111 00:13:56.670 --> 00:13:58.340 Simo Hellsten: very much like to hide 112 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:00.040 Simo Hellsten: information myself. 113 00:14:02.870 --> 00:14:05.530 Simo Hellsten: And also, the other thing is that 114 00:14:05.850 --> 00:14:08.639 Simo Hellsten: we could use 115 00:14:09.050 --> 00:14:11.250 Simo Hellsten: like we could also 116 00:14:12.460 --> 00:14:14.099 Simo Hellsten: do something with that 117 00:14:15.100 --> 00:14:16.450 Simo Hellsten: a label part. 118 00:14:17.880 --> 00:14:19.459 Simo Hellsten: because it doesn't 119 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:20.870 Simo Hellsten: get 120 00:14:21.700 --> 00:14:24.240 Simo Hellsten: broken onto several lines. 121 00:14:25.630 --> 00:14:30.660 Simo Hellsten: So I was looking at different simple solutions from Css. 122 00:14:30.980 --> 00:14:32.030 Simo Hellsten: is that? 123 00:14:32.110 --> 00:14:35.540 Simo Hellsten: And here, yeah, when when I check this. 124 00:14:36.250 --> 00:14:39.809 Simo Hellsten: The machine name column. It inherits all the 125 00:14:40.400 --> 00:14:41.770 Simo Hellsten: all. It's a 126 00:14:42.680 --> 00:14:44.090 Simo Hellsten: attributes from 127 00:14:44.570 --> 00:14:47.450 Simo Hellsten: body, so it doesn't have anything 128 00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:48.889 Simo Hellsten: on its own. 129 00:14:49.810 --> 00:14:51.740 Simo Hellsten: And so 130 00:14:53.180 --> 00:14:55.892 Simo Hellsten: one of the options is to just 131 00:14:57.030 --> 00:15:01.649 Simo Hellsten: remove the hyphens and let it break without hyphens. 132 00:15:01.930 --> 00:15:03.379 Simo Hellsten: and then it would be 133 00:15:05.375 --> 00:15:06.589 Simo Hellsten: kind of a 134 00:15:06.660 --> 00:15:08.709 Simo Hellsten: not so hard to understand. 135 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:12.350 Simo Hellsten: And also it wouldn't be necessarily hidden 136 00:15:12.980 --> 00:15:14.530 Simo Hellsten: in narrow view. 137 00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:16.899 Simo Hellsten: And also if the label 138 00:15:17.450 --> 00:15:19.250 Simo Hellsten: the label doesn't need 139 00:15:20.970 --> 00:15:25.030 Simo Hellsten: doesn't necessarily benefit from breaking words without 140 00:15:26.770 --> 00:15:28.799 Simo Hellsten: hyphens, but it would 141 00:15:28.870 --> 00:15:37.020 Simo Hellsten: probably benefit from breaking breaking the lines with hyphens if it's a very long ways, but it's more of an edge case 142 00:15:37.140 --> 00:15:41.070 Simo Hellsten: to have so so long lines that it really causes problems. 143 00:15:41.690 --> 00:15:43.910 Simo Hellsten: But on mobile view it might. 144 00:15:44.890 --> 00:15:49.339 Simo Hellsten: One of the possible solutions that 1st was mentioned was to 145 00:15:50.281 --> 00:15:52.839 Simo Hellsten: crop that machine name with 146 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:54.640 Simo Hellsten: an ellipsis. 147 00:15:56.369 --> 00:15:56.929 Simo Hellsten: But 148 00:15:57.810 --> 00:15:59.050 Simo Hellsten: or truncate 149 00:15:59.850 --> 00:16:01.169 Simo Hellsten: The machine names! 150 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:06.089 Simo Hellsten: And possibly with an ellipsis. But that wouldn't. 151 00:16:06.630 --> 00:16:09.079 Simo Hellsten: That's something that might 152 00:16:09.570 --> 00:16:12.550 Simo Hellsten: cause problems with copy paste. And it's kind of a 153 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:16.230 Simo Hellsten: doesn't really make sense to me, especially because 154 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:19.919 Simo Hellsten: often the machine names have kind of that kind of a 155 00:16:20.290 --> 00:16:25.080 Simo Hellsten: one of the patterns. To write machine names is to use that kind of a 156 00:16:25.940 --> 00:16:29.919 Simo Hellsten: hierarchy where that difference comes in the end. 157 00:16:37.470 --> 00:16:39.250 Simo Hellsten: And then once 158 00:16:39.895 --> 00:16:44.640 Simo Hellsten: option that's starting to get to be really complex is to 159 00:16:45.751 --> 00:16:47.759 Simo Hellsten: have some kind of solution 160 00:16:48.620 --> 00:16:50.229 Simo Hellsten: to make this 161 00:16:51.933 --> 00:16:52.696 Simo Hellsten: different 162 00:16:53.970 --> 00:16:55.060 Simo Hellsten: tables. 163 00:16:59.371 --> 00:17:01.329 Simo Hellsten: But it's kind of a 164 00:17:02.932 --> 00:17:11.030 Simo Hellsten: mobile friendly, so that it does, it loses that kind of the table structure on narrow screen and kind of presents them. 165 00:17:11.170 --> 00:17:14.870 Simo Hellsten: It's more like cards card styles. So that's 166 00:17:14.900 --> 00:17:16.089 Simo Hellsten: another one. But 167 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:18.929 Simo Hellsten: I don't think I have example here. 168 00:17:21.040 --> 00:17:24.980 Simo Hellsten: So basically, my suggestion would be to just break that 169 00:17:25.900 --> 00:17:27.140 Simo Hellsten: woods. 170 00:17:27.450 --> 00:17:31.779 Simo Hellsten: break the machine names, using breakwid 171 00:17:32.390 --> 00:17:35.989 Simo Hellsten: so that it just would break that, break the machine name 172 00:17:36.150 --> 00:17:39.010 Simo Hellsten: into several rows, but without hyphens. 173 00:17:40.250 --> 00:17:42.840 Simo Hellsten: and also introducing pythons 174 00:17:43.540 --> 00:17:45.410 Simo Hellsten: to the label. 175 00:17:49.410 --> 00:17:52.930 Simo Hellsten: so are there any questions or ideas. 176 00:17:55.865 --> 00:17:57.390 benji: Ralph, your hand is up. 177 00:17:57.390 --> 00:17:59.339 Ralf Koller: Yeah, one question. 178 00:18:00.215 --> 00:18:03.549 Ralf Koller: With the break word suggestion and 179 00:18:04.590 --> 00:18:11.029 Ralf Koller: breaking the machine name, but removing the hyphen. In that case, if a user is 180 00:18:11.140 --> 00:18:12.370 Ralf Koller: selecting 181 00:18:12.580 --> 00:18:20.060 Ralf Koller: double click, for example, the machine name and then copy and pastes is the 182 00:18:20.570 --> 00:18:22.660 Ralf Koller: machine name, then properly 183 00:18:23.030 --> 00:18:27.430 Ralf Koller: paste it in one line and without a space. And 184 00:18:27.460 --> 00:18:29.310 Ralf Koller: I mean just how it behaves. 185 00:18:29.410 --> 00:18:31.190 Ralf Koller: Have you tested that? Maybe. 186 00:18:34.010 --> 00:18:37.450 Simo Hellsten: I tested it with Mac in chrome, and 187 00:18:38.210 --> 00:18:39.060 Simo Hellsten: I think 188 00:18:40.770 --> 00:18:43.460 Simo Hellsten: for me it copy-pasted, correct. 189 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:44.990 Ralf Koller: Okay. 190 00:18:45.910 --> 00:18:52.539 benji: Yeah, I would think that any Css change would not affect copy paste behavior. At least, I hope so. 191 00:18:57.601 --> 00:18:59.208 benji: I have a question. 192 00:19:00.700 --> 00:19:06.490 benji: looking at that screenshot. One thing that jumps out at me is that all the other columns are 193 00:19:06.840 --> 00:19:08.300 benji: very narrow. 194 00:19:08.930 --> 00:19:12.290 benji: Does your solution have any effect on 195 00:19:12.850 --> 00:19:16.409 benji: how wide the machine name column is. 196 00:19:17.823 --> 00:19:18.750 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So 197 00:19:19.190 --> 00:19:20.850 Simo Hellsten: if if the 198 00:19:20.890 --> 00:19:27.610 Simo Hellsten: label lab, so this is because a standard table behavior, HTML, table behavior, that 199 00:19:27.700 --> 00:19:29.870 Simo Hellsten: because there is a single word 200 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:31.529 Simo Hellsten: that doesn't get broken. 201 00:19:31.570 --> 00:19:33.930 Simo Hellsten: It kind of uses the space from there 202 00:19:34.140 --> 00:19:35.370 Simo Hellsten: other columns. 203 00:19:35.850 --> 00:19:38.459 Simo Hellsten: So if that, if if that 204 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:40.430 Simo Hellsten: label is 205 00:19:43.300 --> 00:19:45.499 Simo Hellsten: also allowed to break. 206 00:19:46.858 --> 00:19:50.070 Simo Hellsten: If the the longest word in that 207 00:19:50.927 --> 00:19:53.942 Simo Hellsten: label is allowed to break, then it will 208 00:19:54.500 --> 00:19:55.690 Simo Hellsten: balance the 209 00:19:58.370 --> 00:19:59.699 Simo Hellsten: table width. 210 00:20:03.970 --> 00:20:09.049 Simo Hellsten: So that's where the kind of a single long word takes up space. 211 00:20:09.070 --> 00:20:10.950 Simo Hellsten: So it's not so. 212 00:20:13.780 --> 00:20:14.870 Simo Hellsten: If I move up. 213 00:20:16.360 --> 00:20:19.839 Simo Hellsten: when do you do you see now that manage fields. 214 00:20:19.840 --> 00:20:20.490 Ralf Koller: Yes. 215 00:20:20.830 --> 00:20:21.420 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 216 00:20:22.780 --> 00:20:27.240 Simo Hellsten: so here, what is what happens is that current behavior is that 217 00:20:27.790 --> 00:20:29.539 Simo Hellsten: it seems to hide that 218 00:20:29.580 --> 00:20:30.760 Simo Hellsten: machine name 219 00:20:31.770 --> 00:20:33.399 Simo Hellsten: when it's narrow. 220 00:20:36.020 --> 00:20:39.289 Simo Hellsten: So this is a standard umami installation. 221 00:20:42.780 --> 00:20:50.070 Simo Hellsten: But and here you can see the hyphenation layout builder layout. So that's a bit funny. 222 00:20:50.360 --> 00:20:54.550 Simo Hellsten: And here it doesn't take so much space, because the labels are not long. 223 00:21:01.730 --> 00:21:06.099 Simo Hellsten: When we add a longer, long, a single long word 224 00:21:06.190 --> 00:21:09.930 Simo Hellsten: to the label, then it kind of affects the table. 225 00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:12.340 benji: Yeah, and then. 226 00:21:12.340 --> 00:21:17.879 Simo Hellsten: It also doesn't respect the hiding or the machine name. No, there is not enough space. 227 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:34.140 benji: I'm sorry. What? Why isn't it respecting the hiding of the machine name. 228 00:21:35.448 --> 00:21:38.730 Simo Hellsten: It's yeah. I don't know. It's some something with the code 229 00:21:39.220 --> 00:21:41.259 Simo Hellsten: branded, but here it kind of 230 00:21:43.350 --> 00:21:44.520 Simo Hellsten: goes beyond. 231 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:02.399 Simo Hellsten: Oh, it's might might be just chrome. 232 00:22:04.475 --> 00:22:05.449 Simo Hellsten: Chrome 233 00:22:05.540 --> 00:22:07.470 Simo Hellsten: feature. So it doesn't. 234 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:09.440 Simo Hellsten: It didn't update the 235 00:22:09.650 --> 00:22:10.740 Simo Hellsten: Javascript 236 00:22:12.790 --> 00:22:16.539 Simo Hellsten: when I was editing the code. So yeah, so that's not an issue. 237 00:22:26.770 --> 00:22:27.480 benji: Home. 238 00:22:28.850 --> 00:22:31.229 Simo Hellsten: But if we add, if allow that 239 00:22:40.900 --> 00:22:42.400 Simo Hellsten: where to break. 240 00:22:42.470 --> 00:22:44.159 Simo Hellsten: then it kind of balances 241 00:22:46.990 --> 00:22:48.589 Simo Hellsten: the table a little bit. 242 00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:50.869 Simo Hellsten: But here we again we see that 243 00:22:52.530 --> 00:22:53.850 Simo Hellsten: Python nation. 244 00:23:14.560 --> 00:23:19.199 Simo Hellsten: But the hyphen hyphens actually also don't have problems with 245 00:23:19.310 --> 00:23:20.500 Simo Hellsten: will be paste. 246 00:23:20.660 --> 00:23:23.309 Simo Hellsten: But if somebody maybe sends a screenshot 247 00:23:24.090 --> 00:23:27.290 Simo Hellsten: or something like that, then it would have effect. 248 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:31.710 Simo Hellsten: Or just if you just have one window and you need to type. 249 00:23:33.510 --> 00:23:34.860 Simo Hellsten: But yeah. 250 00:23:36.340 --> 00:23:38.559 benji: Okay, I I have a couple of thoughts. 251 00:23:39.990 --> 00:23:41.410 benji: 1st of all. 252 00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:45.940 benji: I've never seen a label. That's a single, very long word. 253 00:23:46.510 --> 00:23:55.490 benji: So I I think that it's certainly possible, but not something that comes up very often, although maybe I'm I'm 254 00:23:56.340 --> 00:24:01.599 benji: i i i mostly use English May. Maybe other languages are different. 255 00:24:10.990 --> 00:24:15.639 benji: I guess. No, I don't hear anyone saying that that other languages are different. So. 256 00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:18.139 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, but they are. So here is a 257 00:24:20.590 --> 00:24:24.369 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, one Finnish word. That's a very common, that's a 258 00:24:26.710 --> 00:24:28.609 Simo Hellsten: accessibility. Criteria 259 00:24:28.850 --> 00:24:29.819 Simo Hellsten: would hate her. 260 00:24:32.180 --> 00:24:37.410 benji: Okay, so not quite as long as what you would typed in. But still, what is that? About 30 characters. 261 00:24:39.750 --> 00:24:40.689 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. And they're 262 00:24:41.650 --> 00:24:42.450 Simo Hellsten: yeah. 263 00:24:43.660 --> 00:24:47.489 Simo Hellsten: And there are kind of a combination words that make make up long 264 00:24:49.620 --> 00:24:51.350 Simo Hellsten: longer versions. 265 00:24:53.544 --> 00:24:57.990 benji: Second for the machine name. Typically, there are 266 00:24:58.020 --> 00:24:59.910 benji: a lot of underscores. 267 00:25:01.430 --> 00:25:04.590 benji: is there a Css property? We can use 268 00:25:04.790 --> 00:25:07.399 benji: that says it's okay to break 269 00:25:07.810 --> 00:25:10.140 benji: a word at an underscore. 270 00:25:13.990 --> 00:25:15.219 Ofer Shaal: Going to check that. 271 00:25:19.260 --> 00:25:20.800 benji: And I think that 272 00:25:21.840 --> 00:25:32.929 benji: if we had field underscore media underscore, that would be a good place to break and then have image at the on the next line, and if we can avoid the hyphen, I agree, that's 273 00:25:33.070 --> 00:25:34.350 benji: a good idea. 274 00:25:35.450 --> 00:25:40.510 benji: And and and, as I said before, I think that as as long as we're only playing with Css. 275 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.580 benji: We're not going to break the copy paste behavior. 276 00:25:53.040 --> 00:25:54.639 Rachel Hart (she/her): Is breaking it 277 00:25:54.850 --> 00:25:57.020 Rachel Hart (she/her): at an underscore, though 278 00:25:57.740 --> 00:26:03.129 Rachel Hart (she/her): like risk that someone would understand that as 2 separate lines like right now. 279 00:26:03.380 --> 00:26:06.420 Rachel Hart (she/her): if it breaks in the middle of a word. Then obviously, it's 280 00:26:06.510 --> 00:26:11.040 Rachel Hart (she/her): meant to be one big thing that just wraps. But if it breaks 281 00:26:11.140 --> 00:26:13.290 Rachel Hart (she/her): perfectly an underscore. 282 00:26:13.710 --> 00:26:17.600 Rachel Hart (she/her): then I feel like you could possibly read those lines as separate. 283 00:26:18.360 --> 00:26:22.010 Rachel Hart (she/her): But maybe that's not a concern. Given that it's a machine name 284 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:23.170 Rachel Hart (she/her): column. 285 00:26:26.610 --> 00:26:28.429 benji: That's a good question, and it's 286 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:31.520 benji: one that's hard for me to answer, because 287 00:26:31.590 --> 00:26:36.389 benji: for someone with my level of experience, yes, it's obviously a machine name. It's a single word. 288 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.970 benji: But other people with different levels of experience might not find it so obvious. 289 00:26:45.530 --> 00:26:47.389 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, something like this, when the 290 00:26:47.870 --> 00:26:49.460 Simo Hellsten: it has 291 00:26:50.470 --> 00:26:51.220 Simo Hellsten: one 292 00:26:51.370 --> 00:26:56.209 Simo Hellsten: character on a new line that then it's a bit confusing. So it's 293 00:26:56.270 --> 00:26:57.550 Simo Hellsten: much easier tool. 294 00:26:58.720 --> 00:26:59.850 Simo Hellsten: miss it. 295 00:27:05.450 --> 00:27:07.049 benji: Offer? Do you have something you want to say. 296 00:27:08.533 --> 00:27:16.199 Ofer Shaal: I wanted to ask if, when, when we use the hyphen there, and we copy the word, does that 297 00:27:16.280 --> 00:27:19.860 Ofer Shaal: copied without the hyphen, without the the dash. 298 00:27:26.380 --> 00:27:28.689 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, copy paste copies it without a dash. 299 00:27:29.790 --> 00:27:31.580 Ofer Shaal: And is that a problem still. 300 00:27:39.290 --> 00:27:40.750 Simo Hellsten: so it's for 301 00:27:41.050 --> 00:27:43.960 Simo Hellsten: sharing screen or 302 00:27:47.660 --> 00:27:53.270 Simo Hellsten: sharing a screen or sending a screenshot. That's kind of places where it could have confusion. 303 00:27:58.390 --> 00:28:03.420 benji: Yeah offer. I think you you missed it earlier. But we we did talk about this, and and I'm pretty sure 304 00:28:04.415 --> 00:28:07.249 benji: any changes we make in the Css. 305 00:28:07.570 --> 00:28:14.540 benji: Are not going to affect the copy paste behavior. So it's it's not a problem. As as long as our solution is based on Css. 306 00:28:25.090 --> 00:28:29.539 Simo Hellsten: So here is also I edit the Css. So that we can see 307 00:28:29.620 --> 00:28:31.989 Simo Hellsten: option where machine name is 308 00:28:33.679 --> 00:28:35.299 Simo Hellsten: kept intact. 309 00:28:36.010 --> 00:28:40.740 Simo Hellsten: and it just when you when it gets narrow, then it gets hidden. 310 00:28:45.450 --> 00:28:47.189 Rachel Hart (she/her): And is that a concern. 311 00:28:50.060 --> 00:28:51.690 benji: Is what it concerned hiding. 312 00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:53.250 Rachel Hart (she/her): Yeah. Hiding it. 313 00:28:54.767 --> 00:29:01.130 benji: That's an intentional decision. In drupal tables we can specify some columns as lower priority. 314 00:29:01.270 --> 00:29:05.509 benji: and then they are hidden on narrow screens based based on the breakpoints. 315 00:29:08.870 --> 00:29:16.709 benji: And I think there's a link somewhere that lets you see the whole table and and scroll horizontally, although I didn't see that when. 316 00:29:17.780 --> 00:29:20.520 benji: and Seema was changing the width. 317 00:29:22.770 --> 00:29:24.850 Simo Hellsten: Oh, yeah, there's the show. All columns. 318 00:29:25.060 --> 00:29:25.900 benji: There it is. Yeah. 319 00:29:30.070 --> 00:29:31.150 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, it's a. 320 00:29:33.300 --> 00:29:34.999 Simo Hellsten: I think. Css. Class 321 00:29:35.670 --> 00:29:37.270 Simo Hellsten: or low priority. 322 00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:40.080 Simo Hellsten: Oh. 323 00:29:42.280 --> 00:29:43.470 Simo Hellsten: so here. 324 00:29:47.490 --> 00:29:48.240 Simo Hellsten: and yet 325 00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:52.180 Simo Hellsten: 3, 4, I think 3, 40 is a standard 326 00:29:54.260 --> 00:29:55.090 Simo Hellsten: width 327 00:29:55.270 --> 00:29:56.560 Simo Hellsten: to be allowed. 328 00:30:00.450 --> 00:30:04.060 Simo Hellsten: or it's for usability testing 3 40 s. 329 00:30:04.580 --> 00:30:06.220 Simo Hellsten: One of the Hmm 330 00:30:07.670 --> 00:30:09.489 Simo Hellsten: width to be tested. 331 00:30:10.550 --> 00:30:12.900 Simo Hellsten: So here we can see if we hyphenate 332 00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:19.439 Simo Hellsten: label, we can get pretty ugly results even without the machine name. 333 00:30:20.870 --> 00:30:28.079 Simo Hellsten: So this is something which is not really useful. So I think, yeah, it would be good to have a solution for this kind of tables 334 00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:29.580 Simo Hellsten: for Mobile. 335 00:30:29.970 --> 00:30:31.740 Simo Hellsten: but but they are here. 336 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:33.040 Simo Hellsten: On the other hand. 337 00:30:33.090 --> 00:30:36.690 Simo Hellsten: somebody does like this. So reverse is 338 00:30:37.230 --> 00:30:39.230 Simo Hellsten: rotates the phone. 339 00:30:40.410 --> 00:30:42.360 Simo Hellsten: So then we again have this one. 340 00:30:42.620 --> 00:30:43.505 Simo Hellsten: So I think, 341 00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:48.690 Simo Hellsten: it looks like 342 00:30:51.820 --> 00:30:53.240 Simo Hellsten: Hi, this is. 343 00:30:55.030 --> 00:30:56.509 benji: Yeah, something broke there. 344 00:31:00.620 --> 00:31:03.320 benji: If you reload the page, does it still look like that? 345 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:06.610 Simo Hellsten: No. 346 00:31:06.710 --> 00:31:09.739 Simo Hellsten: yeah, there's something with the chrome tooling. 347 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:14.249 Simo Hellsten: So here, here we can see it's some somehow 348 00:31:14.370 --> 00:31:15.400 Simo Hellsten: sensible. 349 00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:21.750 Simo Hellsten: Doesn't have that long text here, but it can fit more 350 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:23.270 Simo Hellsten: tool for 351 00:31:23.580 --> 00:31:25.380 Simo Hellsten: mobile phone usability. 352 00:31:26.990 --> 00:31:28.360 Simo Hellsten: It's a 353 00:31:29.550 --> 00:31:30.790 Simo Hellsten: something that 354 00:31:31.430 --> 00:31:35.419 Simo Hellsten: this doesn't work well in a portrait mode. But landscape works 355 00:31:35.620 --> 00:31:36.949 Simo Hellsten: a little bit better. 356 00:31:38.580 --> 00:31:41.849 Simo Hellsten: So one option would be to allow to break 357 00:31:42.690 --> 00:31:45.329 Simo Hellsten: words in label and 358 00:31:45.670 --> 00:31:49.180 Simo Hellsten: disallow breaking words in machine name. But then we 359 00:31:49.260 --> 00:31:50.350 Simo Hellsten: we'll have 360 00:31:51.150 --> 00:31:53.189 Simo Hellsten: what is the maximum number of 361 00:31:54.510 --> 00:31:57.409 Simo Hellsten: characters in machine name. So it will be 362 00:33:04.270 --> 00:33:06.400 Simo Hellsten: so here we if we again. 363 00:33:32.910 --> 00:33:36.599 Simo Hellsten: So this is kind of the long, longest possible machine name. 364 00:33:38.170 --> 00:33:39.160 Simo Hellsten: Replacing 365 00:33:40.120 --> 00:33:41.470 Simo Hellsten: everything with. 366 00:33:42.270 --> 00:33:43.089 Simo Hellsten: I think 367 00:33:43.410 --> 00:33:47.729 Simo Hellsten: Charcra M. Would make it longer, and depending on the font, but 368 00:34:08.070 --> 00:34:09.400 Simo Hellsten: so that this is 369 00:34:10.290 --> 00:34:13.959 Simo Hellsten: well, it's not hyphenatable so much that word. 370 00:34:14.010 --> 00:34:16.179 Simo Hellsten: because it's not not a real word. But 371 00:34:18.580 --> 00:34:22.690 Simo Hellsten: here the longest possible file machine name that is not 372 00:34:23.290 --> 00:34:27.030 Simo Hellsten: is not broken into several lines. And here 373 00:34:27.130 --> 00:34:29.199 Simo Hellsten: is the same word. 374 00:34:29.620 --> 00:34:33.869 Simo Hellsten: that same single word as a label, a little bit longer. 375 00:34:36.710 --> 00:34:40.140 benji: Okay, can we summarize our options at this point? 376 00:34:40.389 --> 00:34:46.879 benji: I mean, and I think they're they're sort of independent, aren't they? So one is that we can 377 00:34:47.290 --> 00:34:49.530 benji: suppress the hyphen. 378 00:34:50.010 --> 00:34:52.469 benji: When a line breaks 379 00:34:55.290 --> 00:34:59.330 benji: second, we could control where the word breaks 380 00:35:01.660 --> 00:35:03.918 benji: and and 3, rd we might 381 00:35:04.950 --> 00:35:07.620 benji: adjust the width of the columns. 382 00:35:08.870 --> 00:35:11.679 benji: Are there any other options we have? 383 00:35:19.540 --> 00:35:25.090 benji: Of? Of course, if if we're willing to change the markup, then we have many more options, but 384 00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:29.169 benji: we we'd rather not change the markup because we don't want to 385 00:35:29.200 --> 00:35:31.540 benji: break the the option for copy and paste. 386 00:35:31.740 --> 00:35:40.179 benji: So so the 1st one I think is pretty clear cut. We we do want to get rid of the hyphens, so does anyone disagree with that. 387 00:35:45.442 --> 00:35:46.620 Ralf Koller: Just one question. 388 00:35:47.311 --> 00:35:50.229 Ralf Koller: Get rid of the hyphens for the machine name column. 389 00:35:50.240 --> 00:35:56.949 Ralf Koller: but also for the label, or use hyphens on the label column and remove it on the machine. Name. 390 00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:00.400 Simo Hellsten: I think, yeah. 391 00:36:00.770 --> 00:36:04.069 Simo Hellsten: a lot. I think it's a separate issue. 392 00:36:04.410 --> 00:36:10.609 Simo Hellsten: But it's allowing hyphens on label is another thing that would help. Yep. 393 00:36:10.610 --> 00:36:11.600 Ralf Koller: Then I agree. 394 00:36:12.170 --> 00:36:14.869 Ralf Koller: just want to clarify. Yeah, the scope. 395 00:36:18.050 --> 00:36:22.930 benji: So I'm sorry you're you're suggesting that we allow hyphens in the label, but not in the machine name. 396 00:36:25.180 --> 00:36:25.950 Ralf Koller: Oh, yep! 397 00:36:27.850 --> 00:36:29.460 benji: I guess that makes some sense. 398 00:36:35.290 --> 00:36:37.600 benji: anyone else have an opinion on the hyphens. 399 00:36:42.420 --> 00:36:43.330 benji: Okay? 400 00:36:45.590 --> 00:36:51.660 benji: So then, again, what what options do we have to control. Where the words break. 401 00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:00.999 benji: I did a quick search, and and 402 00:37:01.460 --> 00:37:05.480 benji: did not find the sort of option I was suggesting earlier. 403 00:37:05.680 --> 00:37:08.510 benji: where you allow a break at an underscore. 404 00:37:12.350 --> 00:37:16.719 Ofer Shaal: Yeah, that would be only if we do like Javascript, magic. 405 00:37:18.700 --> 00:37:19.450 benji: Well. 406 00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:24.723 benji: 1 1 sandbox that I often climb on is that 407 00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:30.440 benji: Donald Knuth figured out line breaking in the 70 S. 408 00:37:30.450 --> 00:37:34.479 benji: And web browsers still haven't entirely caught up. 409 00:37:36.700 --> 00:37:41.299 benji: and there there are many more options for line breaking in tech than there are in Css. But 410 00:37:41.430 --> 00:37:43.670 benji: okay, I'm I'm done with my sandbox? 411 00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:51.000 benji: so are are there any other options we have 412 00:37:52.010 --> 00:37:54.819 benji: for controlling where it breaks? 413 00:37:56.680 --> 00:37:59.600 benji: Seambo is? Is the screen it it. 414 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:05.909 benji: or what we're looking at now. Does that have any changes from from your browser tools? Or is that just this. 415 00:38:06.388 --> 00:38:07.344 Simo Hellsten: This one 416 00:38:09.020 --> 00:38:12.949 Simo Hellsten: forces the machine name to keep to stay intact. 417 00:38:15.040 --> 00:38:16.029 benji: Yeah, okay. 418 00:38:21.090 --> 00:38:24.210 benji: And then what happens if the machine name is twice as long as that. 419 00:38:25.381 --> 00:38:32.249 Simo Hellsten: This is the longest allowed machine name on this. Well, this is longest allowed from the 420 00:38:33.008 --> 00:38:40.570 Simo Hellsten: user graphic user interface. I don't know if it's possible to edit the config files to add longer machine names. 421 00:38:50.030 --> 00:38:53.460 Simo Hellsten: So is it the hard limit? Or is it 422 00:38:53.680 --> 00:38:56.550 Simo Hellsten: graphic user face user interface 423 00:38:56.770 --> 00:38:57.660 Simo Hellsten: limit. 424 00:38:58.060 --> 00:39:00.529 Simo Hellsten: But this is the longest that is allowed 425 00:39:00.790 --> 00:39:01.295 Simo Hellsten: from 426 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:03.290 Simo Hellsten: field ui. 427 00:39:05.670 --> 00:39:06.780 benji: So 428 00:39:07.580 --> 00:39:10.050 benji: on an arrow screen. Wouldn't that be 429 00:39:10.070 --> 00:39:11.320 benji: pretty awful? 430 00:39:11.980 --> 00:39:13.969 benji: You go down to 340. 431 00:39:15.590 --> 00:39:16.190 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 432 00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:18.420 Simo Hellsten: so it's a 433 00:39:19.210 --> 00:39:20.349 Simo Hellsten: about 6. 434 00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.729 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So that's ugly. At 600, at 10 435 00:39:24.350 --> 00:39:25.490 Simo Hellsten: peak cells. 436 00:39:26.970 --> 00:39:29.090 Simo Hellsten: And then after that, it drops the 437 00:39:31.020 --> 00:39:31.880 Simo Hellsten: qualm. 438 00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:33.330 benji: And show all columns. 439 00:39:33.860 --> 00:39:34.220 Simo Hellsten: Then it. 440 00:39:34.220 --> 00:39:35.570 benji: Scroll horizontally. 441 00:39:36.060 --> 00:39:36.700 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 442 00:39:51.220 --> 00:39:53.249 Simo Hellsten: So one option would be to 443 00:39:54.290 --> 00:39:55.529 Simo Hellsten: add a 444 00:39:57.930 --> 00:39:59.230 Simo Hellsten: media query 445 00:39:59.470 --> 00:40:02.520 Simo Hellsten: cool so that it it doesn't allow 446 00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:07.510 Simo Hellsten: breaking that machine name without hyphens 447 00:40:09.100 --> 00:40:10.919 Simo Hellsten: until a certain 448 00:40:11.410 --> 00:40:13.680 Simo Hellsten: a screen view with. 449 00:40:14.690 --> 00:40:16.949 Simo Hellsten: So that's also an option, too. 450 00:40:17.040 --> 00:40:20.370 Simo Hellsten: Say that maybe before 640 451 00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:23.240 Simo Hellsten: pixels, or 452 00:40:24.180 --> 00:40:26.089 Simo Hellsten: I don't know what are the current? 453 00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:29.030 Simo Hellsten: It. 454 00:40:29.030 --> 00:40:33.969 Ofer Shaal: Perhaps, is a I don't know if it's a bigger discussion, probably out of the context of this one. But 455 00:40:34.767 --> 00:40:39.339 Ofer Shaal: this whole thing, with tables and narrow screens, and then 456 00:40:39.490 --> 00:40:45.570 Ofer Shaal: do we should we stick with table when it becomes narrow screen? Is that the best way to display that information? 457 00:40:47.190 --> 00:40:56.447 Ofer Shaal: Because right, we could like machine name, could be beautifully under body with a little indentation like, still make a lot of sense 458 00:40:57.540 --> 00:41:00.940 Ofer Shaal: structure wise, but doesn't have to take the 459 00:41:01.070 --> 00:41:03.810 Ofer Shaal: the, the rigid space that it takes right now. 460 00:41:04.070 --> 00:41:04.670 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 461 00:41:04.970 --> 00:41:05.789 Simo Hellsten: I think. 462 00:41:07.383 --> 00:41:10.829 Simo Hellsten: Changing this table format into some kind of a 463 00:41:10.950 --> 00:41:13.460 Simo Hellsten: more like a cod cod style 464 00:41:13.770 --> 00:41:15.430 Simo Hellsten: would make sense 465 00:41:15.660 --> 00:41:17.519 Simo Hellsten: in the in the long run. 466 00:41:19.240 --> 00:41:21.110 Simo Hellsten: So that's something that 467 00:41:21.200 --> 00:41:22.620 Simo Hellsten: could be proposed. 468 00:41:30.250 --> 00:41:33.049 benji: Well, do you wanna pursue that instead of 469 00:41:33.450 --> 00:41:36.020 benji: making small changes? Css, here. 470 00:41:36.580 --> 00:41:40.182 Simo Hellsten: I think. Here it would be good to make a small change. 471 00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:54.860 benji: Ralph agrees with that. 472 00:41:56.510 --> 00:41:57.780 benji: So 473 00:42:00.790 --> 00:42:02.310 benji: what? Some? 474 00:42:04.090 --> 00:42:07.170 benji: Why, why, do you think it's a good idea to 475 00:42:08.660 --> 00:42:11.649 benji: force the machine name to be on a single line. 476 00:42:15.160 --> 00:42:15.944 Simo Hellsten: because, 477 00:42:20.300 --> 00:42:21.110 Simo Hellsten: yeah. 478 00:42:21.900 --> 00:42:23.160 Simo Hellsten: it's a 479 00:42:23.200 --> 00:42:24.370 Simo Hellsten: usually 480 00:42:24.790 --> 00:42:27.630 Simo Hellsten: the label is easier, too. 481 00:42:28.210 --> 00:42:30.630 Simo Hellsten: Break into several lines. 482 00:42:32.290 --> 00:42:38.759 Simo Hellsten: And so it would, so that the idea is that they wouldn't be treated. 483 00:42:47.520 --> 00:42:57.280 Simo Hellsten: equally so here, it doesn't really make sense. You saw that there was only a slight change in the machine name with a column with. 484 00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:00.199 Simo Hellsten: And now it's on several 2 lines. 485 00:43:00.370 --> 00:43:03.059 Simo Hellsten: and it didn't really help with the label 486 00:43:03.120 --> 00:43:06.949 Simo Hellsten: to be more understandable because it was already on 2 lines. 487 00:43:07.370 --> 00:43:10.759 Simo Hellsten: so I think it would make sense for 488 00:43:11.210 --> 00:43:14.430 Simo Hellsten: screen with more than 960. 489 00:43:18.590 --> 00:43:23.369 Simo Hellsten: To force machine name to be on single line, and after that allow it to break. 490 00:43:43.770 --> 00:43:48.100 benji: I guess my usual feeling is to trust the browser 491 00:43:48.460 --> 00:43:53.760 benji: and only override it where there's a clear reason to. 492 00:43:54.170 --> 00:43:58.478 benji: I don't see that it's such a big problem to have it break. 493 00:43:59.310 --> 00:44:05.380 benji: I don't think that there's a lot of confusion about whether it's 1 1 word or 2 words 494 00:44:05.630 --> 00:44:06.650 benji: or more. 495 00:44:08.270 --> 00:44:09.430 benji: and 496 00:44:10.040 --> 00:44:11.289 benji: seems like we're. 497 00:44:11.560 --> 00:44:12.330 benji: you know. 498 00:44:13.860 --> 00:44:18.820 benji: doing something sort of complicated, deciding what breakpoint to use. And 499 00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:20.480 benji: and 500 00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:21.520 benji: yo. 501 00:44:21.780 --> 00:44:26.320 benji: perhaps unusual things are going on in some of the other columns that we're not thinking about. 502 00:44:27.301 --> 00:44:29.410 benji: I'd be inclined just to 503 00:44:29.910 --> 00:44:31.620 benji: leave it to the browser 504 00:44:32.010 --> 00:44:34.309 benji: whether to break that that word or not. 505 00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:38.489 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. But so what we would be doing is just 506 00:44:39.150 --> 00:44:41.730 Simo Hellsten: disallow it from using hyphens 507 00:44:42.600 --> 00:44:44.089 Simo Hellsten: and just breaking it. 508 00:44:44.380 --> 00:44:45.529 benji: I agree with that. 509 00:44:45.902 --> 00:44:54.660 benji: And and I also think that it's it's really important to support, copy and paste, and that that is not an issue. For instance, if you double click on 510 00:44:54.830 --> 00:45:00.970 benji: on that work, it'll select the whole thing right. You don't have to triple, click or anything. 511 00:45:01.780 --> 00:45:02.420 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 512 00:45:03.820 --> 00:45:06.349 Simo Hellsten: Oh, I'm using the mobile. So it's 513 00:45:07.950 --> 00:45:08.700 Simo Hellsten: touch. 514 00:45:10.710 --> 00:45:11.500 Simo Hellsten: yeah. 515 00:45:11.740 --> 00:45:14.010 Simo Hellsten: double click selects the whole word. 516 00:45:21.060 --> 00:45:23.899 benji: So. So my suggestion is is to 517 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:25.440 benji: keep it simple 518 00:45:25.680 --> 00:45:27.350 benji: and and not 519 00:45:28.230 --> 00:45:30.029 benji: try to fine tune 520 00:45:30.430 --> 00:45:31.940 benji: when that line breaks. 521 00:45:38.020 --> 00:45:38.600 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 522 00:45:39.010 --> 00:45:40.059 benji: Other opinions 523 00:45:43.810 --> 00:45:45.210 benji: agree, disagree. 524 00:45:47.020 --> 00:45:48.740 benji: I get thumbs up from Ralph. 525 00:45:52.910 --> 00:45:54.610 benji: thumbs up from Rachel. 526 00:45:55.020 --> 00:45:58.019 benji: and a thumbs up from offer, and see what? How do you feel about it? 527 00:45:58.310 --> 00:45:59.300 Simo Hellsten: Yes. 528 00:45:59.700 --> 00:46:01.809 Simo Hellsten: that's you, I think. Okay, yeah. 529 00:46:02.390 --> 00:46:03.010 benji: Colt. 530 00:46:06.330 --> 00:46:09.759 benji: we want to make any changes to the label column. 531 00:46:14.430 --> 00:46:18.029 benji: So you currently have it breaking without hyphens. 532 00:46:20.665 --> 00:46:21.410 Simo Hellsten: Currently. 533 00:46:32.900 --> 00:46:39.209 benji: I think a few minutes ago you and Ralph agreed to have hyphens in the label, but not in the machine name. 534 00:46:40.160 --> 00:46:40.800 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 535 00:46:42.210 --> 00:46:44.549 Simo Hellsten: so check that it break it. 536 00:46:45.050 --> 00:46:45.810 Simo Hellsten: 8, 537 00:46:46.040 --> 00:46:47.469 Simo Hellsten: it can break 538 00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:49.270 Simo Hellsten: with hyphens. 539 00:46:52.290 --> 00:46:53.849 Simo Hellsten: So that's this. 540 00:46:54.380 --> 00:46:56.149 Simo Hellsten: in some cases it's for 541 00:47:08.040 --> 00:47:11.779 Simo Hellsten: yeah, for some long words. It can make sense, too. 542 00:47:12.916 --> 00:47:15.400 Simo Hellsten: Allow it to break. Which 543 00:47:16.070 --> 00:47:17.260 Simo Hellsten: with hyphens. 544 00:47:17.520 --> 00:47:18.190 Simo Hellsten: yeah. 545 00:47:24.090 --> 00:47:25.719 benji: Okay, so are we settled. Then 546 00:47:26.830 --> 00:47:30.369 benji: remove hyphens from machine name, make no other changes there. 547 00:47:30.680 --> 00:47:32.160 benji: and 548 00:47:32.900 --> 00:47:35.159 benji: I think no changes to the label column. 549 00:47:37.110 --> 00:47:41.339 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, if it rates, or or if it hyphenates correctly. 550 00:47:51.950 --> 00:47:53.880 Simo Hellsten: yeah, it has auto offense and 551 00:47:54.240 --> 00:47:55.370 Simo Hellsten: break word. 552 00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:58.080 Simo Hellsten: but it's 553 00:47:59.390 --> 00:48:02.210 Simo Hellsten: should allow it. So it depends on the browser. 554 00:48:09.190 --> 00:48:10.899 Simo Hellsten: It doesn't seem to do it, though. 555 00:48:26.940 --> 00:48:29.820 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, but it must be the road towards preventing it. 556 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:31.700 Simo Hellsten: So 557 00:48:32.040 --> 00:48:36.360 Simo Hellsten: remove the hyphens. But I'll allow that machine name for break. So that's there. 558 00:48:37.390 --> 00:48:38.970 Simo Hellsten: One fix we will 559 00:48:40.050 --> 00:48:40.780 Simo Hellsten: do. 560 00:48:43.290 --> 00:48:44.300 benji: Let's go to me. 561 00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:46.460 benji: Yeah. 562 00:48:47.770 --> 00:48:50.250 benji: Seema. Will. Will you write the comments on that issue? 563 00:48:50.250 --> 00:48:50.870 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 564 00:48:51.470 --> 00:48:51.896 benji: Thank you. 565 00:48:58.760 --> 00:49:00.719 benji: anything else to say on this issue. 566 00:49:07.520 --> 00:49:15.520 benji: So we have 10 or 15 min left. You let me share my screen. I'll bring up that other issue that I mentioned. 567 00:49:21.830 --> 00:49:22.870 benji: Stretch to 568 00:49:24.420 --> 00:49:25.680 benji: window. 569 00:49:40.810 --> 00:49:46.970 benji: This is an issue that Christina Chimeis brought up about a week ago. 570 00:49:47.779 --> 00:49:50.920 benji: For the sake of the recording, this is issue 571 00:49:51.090 --> 00:49:54.160 benji: 5 0 0 8 9 0. 572 00:49:54.980 --> 00:49:57.849 benji: The issue title is 573 00:49:58.270 --> 00:50:02.060 benji: save and edit functionality in drupal core. 574 00:50:03.306 --> 00:50:04.810 benji: or just in core. 575 00:50:04.930 --> 00:50:09.600 benji: And the reason it says in core is that there is already a contrib module 576 00:50:10.610 --> 00:50:11.260 benji: that 577 00:50:12.370 --> 00:50:15.610 benji: provide similar functionality. It's called save and edit. 578 00:50:17.203 --> 00:50:20.670 benji: Now, this is an issue that has been 579 00:50:20.930 --> 00:50:23.020 benji: around for a while. 580 00:50:24.146 --> 00:50:30.720 benji: It didn't get any attention for a long time, like there was a comment in 2,016, 581 00:50:32.950 --> 00:50:33.890 benji: and then 582 00:50:34.470 --> 00:50:36.110 benji: basically nothing 583 00:50:36.730 --> 00:50:38.020 benji: until 584 00:50:38.540 --> 00:50:39.510 benji: last month. 585 00:50:46.140 --> 00:50:47.680 benji: and I guess 586 00:50:48.440 --> 00:50:51.659 benji: what Christina is suggesting 587 00:50:51.970 --> 00:50:54.680 benji: is that when you're editing a node 588 00:50:55.090 --> 00:50:57.220 benji: and you click the saves button. 589 00:50:57.650 --> 00:51:00.870 benji: You should stay on the edit page. 590 00:51:01.820 --> 00:51:03.390 benji: and 591 00:51:03.470 --> 00:51:06.399 benji: she wants to revive this issue. 592 00:51:07.357 --> 00:51:08.760 benji: To do that. 593 00:51:09.803 --> 00:51:10.830 benji: She says. 594 00:51:12.220 --> 00:51:16.849 benji: I'll see quotes from from the description of of that module. 595 00:51:19.090 --> 00:51:28.629 benji: saves the newest content edits while keeping the user on the node edit page. This feature allows users to manually save drafts as they work on site content 596 00:51:28.720 --> 00:51:32.509 benji: without getting distracted by a redirect to the content page. 597 00:51:42.520 --> 00:51:44.289 benji: See, do I have a 598 00:51:44.300 --> 00:51:46.380 benji: site running at the moment 599 00:52:00.370 --> 00:52:02.079 benji: open my local site. 600 00:52:03.600 --> 00:52:05.060 benji: Oh. 601 00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:06.630 benji: it's a funny sight. 602 00:52:14.130 --> 00:52:21.579 benji: I was testing something with the minimal installation profile rather than the standard or umami profiles that I normally use. 603 00:52:21.940 --> 00:52:24.490 benji: So give me just a second. 604 00:52:25.010 --> 00:52:29.750 benji: and I will stall standard profile, and we can see something a little less 605 00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:30.720 benji: stark. 606 00:52:34.730 --> 00:52:36.030 benji: Here we go. 607 00:52:46.370 --> 00:52:47.060 benji: just 608 00:52:48.470 --> 00:52:49.540 benji: page. 609 00:53:03.580 --> 00:53:05.279 benji: Once I've saved 610 00:53:05.740 --> 00:53:06.800 benji: the page. 611 00:53:09.450 --> 00:53:16.490 benji: I have the view and edit tabs, and I can use those to switch from the edit page to the view page 612 00:53:21.900 --> 00:53:25.299 benji: and the current behavior is 613 00:53:32.550 --> 00:53:39.679 benji: behavior. I think we're all familiar with this is that when you click, save it saves the edits and then brings you to 614 00:53:40.200 --> 00:53:41.289 benji: the queue tab. 615 00:53:41.930 --> 00:53:42.730 benji: for you 616 00:53:43.210 --> 00:53:44.650 benji: see the front end. 617 00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:48.740 benji: and if you want to continue editing, you then have to click on the edit tab. 618 00:53:49.530 --> 00:53:54.650 benji: and the recommendation is that the save button should change 619 00:53:55.220 --> 00:54:00.610 benji: the behavior of the save button should change, and when you click on save 620 00:54:01.465 --> 00:54:03.899 benji: you stay on this edit page 621 00:54:03.970 --> 00:54:04.625 benji: any 622 00:54:05.510 --> 00:54:07.830 benji: Any questions about what the 623 00:54:10.140 --> 00:54:11.349 benji: issue is about. 624 00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:16.780 Simo Hellsten: Hmm! One thing. 625 00:54:16.830 --> 00:54:19.670 Simo Hellsten: I think when you create a new node. 626 00:54:19.860 --> 00:54:26.129 Simo Hellsten: you're not exactly staying on the same page, but you would go from node add 627 00:54:26.490 --> 00:54:31.410 Simo Hellsten: to node node id edit, so that yeah URL would change. 628 00:54:34.017 --> 00:54:38.780 benji: That's right, and I I guess maybe I should have called that out while I was 629 00:54:41.630 --> 00:54:44.910 benji: doing it. But when I created a new article exactly 630 00:54:45.980 --> 00:54:47.915 benji: as seamless as 631 00:54:49.350 --> 00:54:53.980 benji: The 1st time I saved it went from Node. Add to node, slash one. 632 00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:04.989 benji: Let me just check what's the current behavior. 633 00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:07.400 benji: if I add another line. 634 00:55:09.500 --> 00:55:11.079 benji: think I know what happens. 635 00:55:11.410 --> 00:55:16.550 benji: But but now, if I click on the view, tab directly, I I think that that edit will get lost. 636 00:55:22.450 --> 00:55:27.140 benji: I go back to edit. It's no longer there. That's what I thought would happen. 637 00:55:29.710 --> 00:55:31.290 benji: Ralph, go ahead. 638 00:55:33.620 --> 00:55:35.610 Ralf Koller: totally out of scope and 639 00:55:37.609 --> 00:55:38.450 Ralf Koller: but 640 00:55:39.050 --> 00:55:45.310 Ralf Koller: shouldn't there be some sort of confirmation in case you haven't just written a single line, but 641 00:55:45.640 --> 00:55:53.719 Ralf Koller: making a long document, several, several several edits, and by accident switched off your head, and you just clicked on the view tab. 642 00:55:53.850 --> 00:55:55.060 Ralf Koller: and then 643 00:55:55.120 --> 00:55:56.779 Ralf Koller: all your work would be lost. 644 00:55:57.100 --> 00:56:01.379 Ralf Koller: So it's a destructional action. And shouldn't there? 645 00:56:01.790 --> 00:56:04.350 Ralf Koller: Technically, some sort of failsafe. 646 00:56:06.468 --> 00:56:12.730 benji: That's a good question. I think there's a contrib module that provides some confirmation when you're leaving. 647 00:56:12.860 --> 00:56:20.560 benji: Now, these are just ordinary links, and it's not very different from typing a new URL into the browser. 648 00:56:21.060 --> 00:56:25.740 benji: And furthermore, if, instead of clicking the edit tab at this point, if I use the 649 00:56:25.950 --> 00:56:28.030 benji: back arrow on my browser. 650 00:56:28.787 --> 00:56:30.689 benji: I think it'll still be there. 651 00:56:31.110 --> 00:56:32.410 benji: No? 652 00:56:33.115 --> 00:56:34.840 benji: I thought that would work. 653 00:56:40.580 --> 00:56:45.900 Ofer Shaal: But, Jim, is that, can you please just show what is it the new way is doing? How does it look. 654 00:56:48.133 --> 00:56:48.840 benji: Video, Tab. 655 00:56:49.710 --> 00:56:52.990 Ofer Shaal: The no, the the, the change from 656 00:56:54.410 --> 00:56:57.269 Ofer Shaal: the suggested, the suggested new behavior. 657 00:56:57.750 --> 00:57:01.970 benji: So the suggested new behavior is that when you click save 658 00:57:02.070 --> 00:57:04.830 benji: you are not redirected to 659 00:57:05.300 --> 00:57:06.880 benji: the view tab 660 00:57:07.050 --> 00:57:08.890 benji: that when you click, save it just saves. 661 00:57:08.890 --> 00:57:09.280 Ofer Shaal: Okay. 662 00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:11.519 benji: Keeps you. Yeah on this game. Got it? 663 00:57:12.320 --> 00:57:13.100 benji: Poke. 664 00:57:15.690 --> 00:57:22.020 Ofer Shaal: So we're saying, the drop flip, basically like, we're missing just the confirmation on top. It says so. And so was updated. 665 00:57:24.330 --> 00:57:26.120 Ofer Shaal: Which is the current behavior. 666 00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:28.327 benji: Yeah, I think. 667 00:57:28.760 --> 00:57:31.609 benji: I think we would want to keep a confirmation message. 668 00:57:39.700 --> 00:57:45.450 benji: But this confirmation message would show on the edit tab rather than on the queue. Tab 669 00:57:51.819 --> 00:57:52.659 benji: Ralph, go ahead. 670 00:57:53.086 --> 00:57:58.210 Ralf Koller: Just one question. But isn't. I haven't read through the issue closely. 671 00:57:58.290 --> 00:58:00.630 Ralf Koller: But isn't the suggestion 672 00:58:00.770 --> 00:58:02.040 Ralf Koller: a site 673 00:58:03.030 --> 00:58:13.790 Ralf Koller: on the safe button staying on the side, and just saving the note, add a second button for save, and go to. In that case the view page. 674 00:58:16.057 --> 00:58:20.570 benji: That. That's certainly an an option. We already have the save and preview. 675 00:58:23.110 --> 00:58:24.550 benji: I said, what happens 676 00:58:25.090 --> 00:58:25.590 benji: goes. 677 00:58:25.590 --> 00:58:27.880 Ralf Koller: Custom. Oops. Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. 678 00:58:28.330 --> 00:58:30.079 benji: And and the delete link. 679 00:58:30.616 --> 00:58:37.949 benji: I I discussed it with Christina on slack, and she's not thinking of adding yet another button down here. 680 00:58:38.110 --> 00:58:42.590 benji: She just wants to change the behavior of the save button. 681 00:58:43.350 --> 00:58:44.130 benji: And 682 00:58:46.072 --> 00:58:48.959 benji: yeah, I think it needs some clarification. 683 00:58:49.455 --> 00:58:52.739 benji: She did write. This should be the default action. 684 00:58:53.558 --> 00:59:01.309 benji: So when you talk about the default action, you're implicitly suggesting that there are ways of overriding the default. 685 00:59:02.204 --> 00:59:07.460 benji: But anyway, her her current preference is just to make the save button 686 00:59:08.780 --> 00:59:13.440 benji: do something different without providing the current behaviors as an option. 687 00:59:14.730 --> 00:59:16.859 benji: It's certainly open for discussion. 688 00:59:19.790 --> 00:59:20.500 Ralf Koller: But 689 00:59:22.580 --> 00:59:26.569 Ralf Koller: that way, basically, the user is sort of stuck 690 00:59:27.470 --> 00:59:28.450 Ralf Koller: on the page. 691 00:59:30.550 --> 00:59:36.290 benji: Right. The the only way to navigate away would be with the local tasks. 692 00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:40.480 benji: Also known as tabs. 693 00:59:42.340 --> 00:59:43.270 Ralf Koller: Go ahead, Seymour. 694 00:59:43.270 --> 00:59:50.959 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, so, and we have those small things. What are they called contextual links, or something like that, that small things we have 695 00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:52.619 Simo Hellsten: on the corner of 696 00:59:53.030 --> 00:59:54.010 Simo Hellsten: things 697 00:59:54.430 --> 00:59:55.850 Simo Hellsten: on the view side. 698 00:59:56.350 --> 00:59:59.095 benji: Right when you're looking at the front end, you have. 699 00:59:59.370 --> 01:00:01.709 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, on the there on the right. 700 01:00:02.150 --> 01:00:02.960 Simo Hellsten: That PIN. 701 01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:05.960 benji: Tip. I can't see it because of the zoom windows. 702 01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:07.209 benji: By the way. 703 01:00:09.623 --> 01:00:10.270 Ralf Koller: Quick! Edit. 704 01:00:13.060 --> 01:00:15.820 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, that one when you there click edit. 705 01:00:19.720 --> 01:00:24.989 Simo Hellsten: And now you expect to go back to definitely expect to go to back through the same place 706 01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:27.440 Simo Hellsten: when you click, save. 707 01:00:39.610 --> 01:00:44.240 benji: And and that's explicitly specified by the destination parameter. 708 01:00:44.360 --> 01:00:45.580 benji: So 709 01:00:45.660 --> 01:00:53.900 benji: if we change little, and maybe this is what Christina meant by default behavior, if we change it, so that by default the save button 710 01:00:53.910 --> 01:00:58.969 benji: keeps you on the edit page, you can always override that by adding the destination parameter. 711 01:00:59.220 --> 01:01:12.260 Simo Hellsten: Yeah or no, or either keeps you, or it doesn't necessarily keep you on the edit page. But when you create new node, it moves to you to the edit page from add page. So that's also something that 712 01:01:12.390 --> 01:01:14.860 Simo Hellsten: it's not the same action. 713 01:01:18.310 --> 01:01:21.010 benji: I'm afraid we're just about out of time. 714 01:01:22.900 --> 01:01:24.500 benji: you know. Certainly. 715 01:01:25.668 --> 01:01:27.820 benji: If we're going to 716 01:01:28.630 --> 01:01:33.479 benji: use the existing issue, it needs an issue summary update and 717 01:01:34.170 --> 01:01:35.939 benji: Christina marked it for that. 718 01:01:38.630 --> 01:01:40.520 benji: any last comments? 719 01:01:46.760 --> 01:01:47.310 benji: And 720 01:01:48.290 --> 01:01:54.800 benji: probably we should talk about this some more at the next meeting unless something else comes up. 721 01:01:55.240 --> 01:01:55.830 benji: But. 722 01:01:56.212 --> 01:02:01.179 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. Well, couple of days I've been mostly working with commerce products. And 723 01:02:01.190 --> 01:02:05.639 Simo Hellsten: that's a different use case where you expect to just go one by one and 724 01:02:05.700 --> 01:02:08.330 Simo Hellsten: step through quite quickly. So it's a 725 01:02:08.350 --> 01:02:10.270 Simo Hellsten: with the different content. 726 01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:12.869 Simo Hellsten: It's can be a little bit different. 727 01:02:14.030 --> 01:02:15.450 benji: I'm sorry with commerce. What? 728 01:02:16.820 --> 01:02:18.000 Simo Hellsten: Commerce, products. 729 01:02:18.310 --> 01:02:19.123 benji: Commerce, product. 730 01:02:19.530 --> 01:02:22.020 Simo Hellsten: Products. So then, when you add a lot of 731 01:02:22.070 --> 01:02:23.160 Simo Hellsten: products. 732 01:02:23.310 --> 01:02:35.460 Simo Hellsten: kind of a then you don't want to stay on the same page and add extra clicks, or there might be some other cases where you add small pieces of content, and you don't want to stay. So th, this is kind of a 733 01:02:36.080 --> 01:02:39.279 Simo Hellsten: depends on what kind of content you are editing 734 01:02:39.560 --> 01:02:40.660 Simo Hellsten: or creating. 735 01:02:41.480 --> 01:02:42.580 Simo Hellsten: But yeah. 736 01:02:44.780 --> 01:02:45.550 Simo Hellsten: okay. 737 01:02:45.550 --> 01:02:47.630 benji: Thank you all for coming, and 738 01:02:47.730 --> 01:02:49.019 benji: do it again next week. 739 01:02:50.170 --> 01:02:51.670 Ralf Koller: Thank you. Have a nice weekend. 740 01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:52.459 Simo Hellsten: That's we can. 741 01:02:52.460 --> 01:02:53.250 Rachel Hart (she/her): Thank you.