WEBVTT 51 00:08:57.140 --> 00:09:03.959 Ralf Koller: video, so welcome to the drupal usability meeting on August 23, rd 2,022. 52 00:09:04.100 --> 00:09:08.809 Ralf Koller: Today's attendees, Arevani Seymour, Helston, Randy, Ost 53 00:09:08.880 --> 00:09:12.039 Ralf Koller: Andres von Koff and Author Charles. 54 00:09:12.400 --> 00:09:15.269 Ralf Koller: And yet my name is Rod Corner. 55 00:09:16.910 --> 00:09:17.790 Ralf Koller: and 56 00:09:18.430 --> 00:09:26.709 Ralf Koller: we are looking at issue 1, 9, 7, 3, 3, 2, 2 at drop buttons to the appearance page. 57 00:09:29.500 --> 00:09:30.700 Ralf Koller: we've 58 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:35.249 Ralf Koller: as I've already mentioned before. At the moment the 59 00:09:36.830 --> 00:09:40.340 Ralf Koller: it's impossible to check out the merge request due to 60 00:09:41.040 --> 00:09:42.179 Ralf Koller: an error. 61 00:09:43.470 --> 00:09:49.319 Ralf Koller: but that issue might be easy enough to take a look at 62 00:09:49.520 --> 00:09:51.459 Ralf Koller: on the screenshots. 63 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:53.750 Ralf Koller: So basically. 64 00:09:53.800 --> 00:09:55.060 Ralf Koller: what the 65 00:09:55.950 --> 00:10:05.090 Ralf Koller: much request proposes is at the moment. If you take a look on the appearance page, you have settings you have set as default for install themes 66 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:07.060 Ralf Koller: that are not default yet. 67 00:10:07.420 --> 00:10:09.770 Ralf Koller: or you have the option to uninstall 68 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:15.720 Ralf Koller: as well as on uninstall themes you have install, install and set as default. 69 00:10:16.660 --> 00:10:17.750 Ralf Koller: and 70 00:10:19.400 --> 00:10:20.560 Ralf Koller: the 71 00:10:22.230 --> 00:10:23.500 Ralf Koller: much requests 72 00:10:23.880 --> 00:10:26.390 Ralf Koller: basically throws everything 73 00:10:26.580 --> 00:10:34.969 Ralf Koller: into a single drop button. So you have settings uninstall and service default as options there with the default of settings. 74 00:10:36.050 --> 00:10:37.999 Ralf Koller: That's the current state. 75 00:10:38.180 --> 00:10:40.850 Ralf Koller: and has quite one 76 00:10:43.340 --> 00:10:44.610 Ralf Koller: posted 77 00:10:46.160 --> 00:10:47.600 Ralf Koller: on the 78 00:10:48.880 --> 00:10:52.571 Ralf Koller: issue. She linked it basically 79 00:10:53.670 --> 00:10:55.170 Ralf Koller: to a major issue 80 00:10:55.270 --> 00:11:01.639 Ralf Koller: in the ideas queue about the appearance page. And there is also a mock up with a slightly different take 81 00:11:03.370 --> 00:11:04.880 Ralf Koller: just for reference. 82 00:11:05.460 --> 00:11:10.059 Ralf Koller: There you have basically the settings button, and then you have 83 00:11:10.530 --> 00:11:14.280 Ralf Koller: all the set as default set is admin or set as 84 00:11:15.928 --> 00:11:19.760 Ralf Koller: default and admin as an option. 85 00:11:22.070 --> 00:11:28.310 Ralf Koller: so as not an attribute gainers list, but a slight separation of concerns there. 86 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:30.280 Ralf Koller: so any questions 87 00:11:33.630 --> 00:11:34.180 Ralf Koller: alright. 88 00:11:34.180 --> 00:11:37.770 Ofer Shaal: I have a question not sure if it's out of topic. But 89 00:11:38.640 --> 00:11:41.039 Ofer Shaal: is it popular that people use 90 00:11:41.910 --> 00:11:43.449 Ofer Shaal: theme for both 91 00:11:43.530 --> 00:11:46.929 Ofer Shaal: defaulted admin for me. I know 100% of the time. 92 00:11:47.290 --> 00:11:48.949 Ofer Shaal: They're 2 different things. 93 00:11:50.680 --> 00:11:51.630 Ralf Koller: Yes. 94 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:57.619 Ralf Koller: but back then, when that mockup was created, that was one of the 95 00:11:57.990 --> 00:12:03.710 Ralf Koller: concerns that was raised, that there are pages that use a theme 96 00:12:04.040 --> 00:12:06.470 Ralf Koller: for default as well as for admin. 97 00:12:06.790 --> 00:12:09.360 Ralf Koller: and therefore that option 98 00:12:09.540 --> 00:12:10.940 Ralf Koller: had to be there. 99 00:12:13.800 --> 00:12:15.230 Ralf Koller: But yeah, I agree. 100 00:12:15.770 --> 00:12:17.820 Ofer Shaal: My, I guess my concern is more like 101 00:12:17.900 --> 00:12:24.020 Ofer Shaal: because it's such an edge case. Should it take the same permanent and wait as 102 00:12:24.470 --> 00:12:27.179 Ofer Shaal: the other option that like usually. 103 00:12:28.210 --> 00:12:30.970 Ofer Shaal: it's kind of 2 clear choices 104 00:12:31.130 --> 00:12:32.700 Ofer Shaal: edge cases. 105 00:12:32.900 --> 00:12:36.139 Ofer Shaal: It's both. And I don't know if there's a different way to 106 00:12:36.450 --> 00:12:42.060 Ofer Shaal: not confuse people with something that probably is an edge case and not something. They'll 107 00:12:42.500 --> 00:12:43.849 Ofer Shaal: easily choose. 108 00:12:46.570 --> 00:12:48.769 Simo Hellsten: I think also here we are looking at 109 00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:50.670 Simo Hellsten: the button that has. 110 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:56.170 Simo Hellsten: like doing one thing, doing another thing and doing both of the 111 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:00.510 Simo Hellsten: other options at the same time. So it's not really clear. 112 00:13:00.740 --> 00:13:06.369 Simo Hellsten: because you get the same results from 2 1st choosing one and then choosing the other. 113 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:08.539 Simo Hellsten: So it's just one. 114 00:13:08.950 --> 00:13:10.840 Simo Hellsten: Well, actually, 2 more clicks 115 00:13:12.820 --> 00:13:14.980 Simo Hellsten: if it's an edge case. 116 00:13:16.430 --> 00:13:17.330 Simo Hellsten: So. 117 00:13:23.770 --> 00:13:30.909 Randy Oest (he/him): The question that comes to my mind with this particular issue is, you know, the question I ask is, what problem is this trying to solve. 118 00:13:31.826 --> 00:13:37.170 Randy Oest (he/him): I agree that the mock up that's done with the dropdown is more aesthetically pleasing. 119 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:43.830 Randy Oest (he/him): but it's adding an extra click to the user to be able to do these things. And 120 00:13:44.304 --> 00:14:07.700 Randy Oest (he/him): maybe I don't know. But like, if if additional things are going to be added to this dropdown as options, then making it a dropdown, starts to make more sense. But these 3 items have been in the appearance panel with themes for a long time, and I really as a user, I really like being able to click on it instead of having to click on a dropdown and then make 121 00:14:07.860 --> 00:14:09.340 Randy Oest (he/him): another selection. 122 00:14:30.130 --> 00:14:31.020 Ralf Koller: So 123 00:14:32.510 --> 00:14:35.220 Ralf Koller: everyone is saying that that 124 00:14:35.330 --> 00:14:38.609 Ralf Koller: the heterogeneous list of all 125 00:14:38.900 --> 00:14:41.130 Ralf Koller: buttons moved into a single 126 00:14:42.890 --> 00:14:46.069 Ralf Koller: drop button, and having all those 127 00:14:47.030 --> 00:14:52.310 Ralf Koller: diverse options like settings uninstall and set as default under one roof. 128 00:14:54.970 --> 00:14:57.339 Ralf Koller: It's not ideal. Let's put it that way. 129 00:15:00.010 --> 00:15:01.450 Randy Oest (he/him): I agree with that statement. 130 00:15:02.290 --> 00:15:06.140 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I think, one of the reasons is that settings 131 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:12.499 Simo Hellsten: redirects the user to honor that page while set as default, does not. 132 00:15:13.150 --> 00:15:15.610 Simo Hellsten: It just probably initiates 133 00:15:15.830 --> 00:15:16.980 Simo Hellsten: page load. 134 00:15:17.510 --> 00:15:18.080 Ralf Koller: Yep. 135 00:15:19.670 --> 00:15:21.119 Ralf Koller: to search the default. 136 00:15:21.330 --> 00:15:21.910 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 137 00:15:22.420 --> 00:15:24.109 Simo Hellsten: So that would kind of a 138 00:15:25.020 --> 00:15:25.740 Simo Hellsten: yeah. 139 00:15:28.290 --> 00:15:31.069 Simo Hellsten: the user wouldn't know whether or not 140 00:15:32.060 --> 00:15:36.280 Simo Hellsten: they are redirected or taken to another page. 141 00:15:46.640 --> 00:15:51.650 Andrei Zvonkov: I I would agree that separation of concern is is 142 00:15:53.070 --> 00:15:55.219 Andrei Zvonkov: important here, as in like 143 00:15:55.610 --> 00:15:58.401 Andrei Zvonkov: putting this things together doesn't make sense. 144 00:15:59.830 --> 00:16:02.960 Andrei Zvonkov: And from my perspective. But I was wondering. 145 00:16:04.270 --> 00:16:08.449 Andrei Zvonkov: is there a separate issue, or anybody is aware of the 146 00:16:09.288 --> 00:16:12.080 Andrei Zvonkov: where these cards are actually being redone? 147 00:16:12.500 --> 00:16:15.330 Andrei Zvonkov: Because I feel like they. They're very 148 00:16:15.660 --> 00:16:17.924 Andrei Zvonkov: sort of information dense. 149 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.240 Andrei Zvonkov: especially 150 00:16:20.250 --> 00:16:24.649 Andrei Zvonkov: with this. You know the screenshots and stuff kind of text 151 00:16:24.990 --> 00:16:31.719 Andrei Zvonkov: in the screenshots themselves, because if they had somehow more space or more breaking down of 152 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:41.220 Andrei Zvonkov: these texts or these items, it might be easier to understand and read like, just like when everything is kind of in line and wrapping 153 00:16:42.866 --> 00:16:46.430 Andrei Zvonkov: and just like overall. I feel like it adds more 154 00:16:46.590 --> 00:16:48.449 Andrei Zvonkov: confusion to the whole thing. 155 00:16:52.490 --> 00:16:53.740 Ralf Koller: One second 156 00:16:54.485 --> 00:16:57.564 Ralf Koller: Apollo. At 1st apologies 157 00:16:58.760 --> 00:17:00.649 Ralf Koller: I forgot to mention. 158 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:04.099 Ralf Koller: Have I mentioned the issue number for the Add Drop Buttons 159 00:17:04.520 --> 00:17:05.630 Ralf Koller: issue yet. 160 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:07.460 Randy Oest (he/him): You did. 161 00:17:07.460 --> 00:17:08.949 Ralf Koller: Okay? I. Okay, then. 162 00:17:08.970 --> 00:17:29.180 Ralf Koller: good. And about Andre's question, there is a Meta issue in the ideas queue. It's issue number 2, 8, 6, 0. 4, 1, 9. Appearance page is too long and confusing, which has several child issues, and there is one of these things is redesign the cards for the appearance page. 163 00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:35.360 Ralf Koller: and that is issue number 3, 2, 4, 9, 3, 7, 4 164 00:17:35.770 --> 00:17:37.120 Ralf Koller: can also 165 00:17:37.860 --> 00:17:40.660 Ralf Koller: copy to the chat. 166 00:17:42.820 --> 00:17:43.910 Ralf Koller: which is 167 00:17:44.490 --> 00:17:46.250 Ralf Koller: yeah, with the cards itself. 168 00:17:51.350 --> 00:17:52.440 Andrei Zvonkov: Okay, yeah. 169 00:17:52.870 --> 00:17:55.030 Andrei Zvonkov: thanks for pointing that to that. 170 00:17:55.340 --> 00:17:58.509 Simo Hellsten: Do you know, if teams are 171 00:17:58.960 --> 00:17:59.850 Simo Hellsten: on 172 00:18:00.090 --> 00:18:01.850 Simo Hellsten: on the roadmap for 173 00:18:02.150 --> 00:18:03.620 Simo Hellsten: Project Browser? 174 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:05.649 Simo Hellsten: So I would expect 175 00:18:05.790 --> 00:18:13.010 Simo Hellsten: it, would they? It would be good to match Project Browser for modules to have it a kind of a matching 176 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:14.969 Simo Hellsten: one for themes. 177 00:18:16.360 --> 00:18:17.750 Simo Hellsten: I didn't check that. 178 00:18:19.900 --> 00:18:21.610 Ralf Koller: There is not yet 179 00:18:22.402 --> 00:18:24.359 Ralf Koller: I've in the 180 00:18:24.380 --> 00:18:25.940 Ralf Koller: Triple Cms 181 00:18:26.260 --> 00:18:31.039 Ralf Koller: survey that went out a week ago or so. I phrased that 182 00:18:31.860 --> 00:18:32.810 Ralf Koller: S. 183 00:18:33.270 --> 00:18:38.380 Ralf Koller: One of my concerns in regards of yeah, the situational awareness. 184 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:42.209 Ralf Koller: And I've also tried to raise it several times in 185 00:18:42.490 --> 00:18:43.820 Ralf Koller: the triple slack 186 00:18:44.371 --> 00:18:47.080 Ralf Koller: as a suggestion, basically to get 187 00:18:47.210 --> 00:18:54.059 Ralf Koller: people from this group, together with the folks from the recipes as well as from Project browse. Because 188 00:18:56.410 --> 00:19:02.890 Ralf Koller: I think, Seymour, you did some extensive research in regards of the modules. Page 189 00:19:02.980 --> 00:19:04.500 Ralf Koller: trust the modules 190 00:19:04.940 --> 00:19:11.830 Ralf Koller: on the modules list page that meter issue. And I guess it was around 2 book on Prague. 191 00:19:11.990 --> 00:19:13.640 Ralf Koller: And 192 00:19:15.630 --> 00:19:17.010 Ralf Koller: yeah, the point is. 193 00:19:17.280 --> 00:19:19.350 Ralf Koller: during the Troopolisms 194 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:21.380 Ralf Koller: working group meetings 195 00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:22.690 Ralf Koller: at the moment. 196 00:19:23.760 --> 00:19:26.820 Ralf Koller: Oops. If you go here, you have the top level 197 00:19:27.930 --> 00:19:32.299 Ralf Koller: menu. Item, appearance. But one person there, said Luke. 198 00:19:33.023 --> 00:19:34.450 Ralf Koller: That technically 199 00:19:34.580 --> 00:19:38.280 Ralf Koller: you don't change the appearance that often. So 200 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:43.370 Ralf Koller: you don't visit the appearance page that regularly and technically. 201 00:19:44.490 --> 00:19:47.589 Ralf Koller: let's from my point of view, it would definitely make sense 202 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:51.839 Ralf Koller: to consolidate the whole extent. Page. Because 203 00:19:52.740 --> 00:19:53.900 Ralf Koller: point is 204 00:19:54.050 --> 00:19:55.649 Ralf Koller: with Project Browser. 205 00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:58.748 Ralf Koller: as you can see here. 206 00:20:00.830 --> 00:20:10.720 Ralf Koller: you have source types. One is modules currently called triple org. Jason Api. Then you have recipes that got introduced, and you have triple core. 207 00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:12.250 Ralf Koller: Technically. 208 00:20:12.300 --> 00:20:13.310 Ralf Koller: themes 209 00:20:13.380 --> 00:20:18.569 Ralf Koller: are also extensions at least listed on trouple.org, and from my point of view. 210 00:20:18.760 --> 00:20:20.020 Ralf Koller: at the moment 211 00:20:22.260 --> 00:20:25.690 Ralf Koller: several concepts overlap here some of those 212 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:38.269 Ralf Koller: entities listed. Here are the drupal.org is completely remote. Nothing is in the file system, yet recipes in contrast only lists. 213 00:20:38.900 --> 00:20:41.630 Ralf Koller: recipes, shipping with 214 00:20:42.040 --> 00:20:50.710 Ralf Koller: triple core meaning. Those are already in the file system and local that just have to be applied while Triple Core is a subset of 215 00:20:50.810 --> 00:20:52.480 Ralf Koller: the modules list page. 216 00:20:53.790 --> 00:20:54.909 Ralf Koller: listing 217 00:20:55.710 --> 00:21:00.990 Ralf Koller: all the core modules available for the site, but also only local. 218 00:21:01.150 --> 00:21:02.320 Ralf Koller: while 219 00:21:02.630 --> 00:21:06.109 Ralf Koller: on here, at the moment we only have just 220 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.910 Ralf Koller: the list page, which which is basically 221 00:21:09.010 --> 00:21:13.439 Ralf Koller: the core modules mixed with added 222 00:21:13.710 --> 00:21:16.425 Ralf Koller: or composer required. 223 00:21:19.470 --> 00:21:25.310 Ralf Koller: composer required contract modules, and then you have update and also uninstall. 224 00:21:25.320 --> 00:21:29.970 Ralf Koller: just refers to this. We also. Oh, we have to. 225 00:21:32.383 --> 00:21:35.750 Ralf Koller: One second. Where is the 226 00:21:37.700 --> 00:21:39.330 Ralf Koller: other issue? 227 00:21:47.290 --> 00:21:50.749 Ralf Koller: I don't find it yet. At the moment 228 00:21:52.890 --> 00:21:56.939 Ralf Koller: I'll post it afterwards. Oh, oh, wait. There it is. 229 00:21:57.750 --> 00:22:07.659 Ralf Koller: There is basically the following issue, another one, issue number 2, 0, 3, 5, 0, 7, 9. 230 00:22:09.540 --> 00:22:17.720 Ralf Koller: We've also talked in this issue in this meeting here. Figure out what to do with the install and unstore module page. And 231 00:22:17.870 --> 00:22:20.359 Ralf Koller: we've created already 3 232 00:22:20.840 --> 00:22:23.230 Ralf Koller: child issues for that and 233 00:22:23.590 --> 00:22:26.109 Ralf Koller: postpone the issue on those 234 00:22:27.210 --> 00:22:29.060 Ralf Koller: cause at the moment. 235 00:22:29.990 --> 00:22:30.840 Ralf Koller: Oops. 236 00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:34.290 Ralf Koller: it's just a patchwork, and 237 00:22:35.560 --> 00:22:37.429 Ralf Koller: the point is also 238 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:41.940 Ralf Koller: that recipes 239 00:22:42.510 --> 00:22:44.020 Ralf Koller: going into core 240 00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:46.979 Ralf Koller: and available. And if you. 241 00:22:47.730 --> 00:22:51.049 Ralf Koller: if you install, for example, the prototype of star shot. 242 00:22:52.610 --> 00:22:53.650 Ralf Koller: you have an 243 00:22:53.660 --> 00:22:57.969 Ralf Koller: overwhelming list, page. You have no actual touch point 244 00:22:58.330 --> 00:23:03.049 Ralf Koller: which recipes are available which recipes got applied, got applied. 245 00:23:03.635 --> 00:23:08.899 Ralf Koller: You have no situational awareness at all, and to figure out if you 246 00:23:09.310 --> 00:23:12.769 Ralf Koller: get, as in someone external to a new page. 247 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:17.720 Ralf Koller: it's close to impossible. Not impossible, but 248 00:23:18.300 --> 00:23:27.810 Ralf Koller: an overwhelming task to understand what is installed, what got applied, and so forth. And there are several concepts mixed, and if you don't 249 00:23:28.070 --> 00:23:33.619 Ralf Koller: know about the concepts and the underlying constraints of each of those concepts. 250 00:23:34.540 --> 00:23:39.059 Ralf Koller: there are many stepping stones. Let's put it as dumping blocks. Let's put it that way. So 251 00:23:39.650 --> 00:23:40.520 Ralf Koller: tricky. 252 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:45.170 Ralf Koller: Yeah, but that's some rough overview. But there has hasn't happened any 253 00:23:45.260 --> 00:23:47.600 Ralf Koller: discussion yet, but I would 254 00:23:49.350 --> 00:23:50.530 Ralf Koller: vote for one. 255 00:23:55.290 --> 00:23:59.150 Andrei Zvonkov: Hey? Thanks for the context. That's very interesting. 256 00:24:03.970 --> 00:24:06.170 Andrei Zvonkov: The browser 257 00:24:06.380 --> 00:24:07.739 Andrei Zvonkov: cards. 258 00:24:07.890 --> 00:24:09.045 Andrei Zvonkov: I mean the 259 00:24:11.580 --> 00:24:12.230 Ralf Koller: Put him in. 260 00:24:12.230 --> 00:24:16.870 Andrei Zvonkov: For the for the modules. Right? I mean they have. They only have 261 00:24:17.150 --> 00:24:18.950 Andrei Zvonkov: install uninstall 262 00:24:19.070 --> 00:24:22.229 Andrei Zvonkov: right? They don't have settings kind of baked into 263 00:24:23.360 --> 00:24:24.919 Andrei Zvonkov: the card itself. 264 00:24:25.330 --> 00:24:27.050 Andrei Zvonkov: From what I can remember 265 00:24:28.140 --> 00:24:29.636 Andrei Zvonkov: when you browse for 266 00:24:30.090 --> 00:24:31.200 Andrei Zvonkov: modules. 267 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:34.639 Ralf Koller: Oh, you mean. 268 00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:42.749 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, like, yeah, if we're talking, you know, if they're say, part part of this setup, the themes are. 269 00:24:45.270 --> 00:24:48.380 Andrei Zvonkov: yeah, we have the usage statistics, and the 270 00:24:49.210 --> 00:24:50.939 Andrei Zvonkov: add and install 271 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:53.160 Andrei Zvonkov: which themes, I guess. 272 00:24:54.090 --> 00:24:57.030 Andrei Zvonkov: like they would not necessarily have that or. 273 00:24:57.730 --> 00:25:04.500 Ralf Koller: I think they would. Installs. They have, as well as security coverage. I think so as well. 274 00:25:04.830 --> 00:25:07.619 Ralf Koller: just not sure if they would have the same 275 00:25:08.490 --> 00:25:09.950 Ralf Koller: type of categories. 276 00:25:10.520 --> 00:25:12.710 Ralf Koller: but I know for sure that 277 00:25:13.140 --> 00:25:15.169 Ralf Koller: in the near future. 278 00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:22.350 Ralf Koller: after recipes themes is also planned to go in, and it makes total sense 279 00:25:22.800 --> 00:25:26.190 Ralf Koller: to make them available via Project Browser. 280 00:25:39.030 --> 00:25:41.539 Andrei Zvonkov: So that's in a way kind of I mean 281 00:25:42.730 --> 00:25:47.070 Andrei Zvonkov: makes the issue a bit obsolete or not at this point or 282 00:25:50.860 --> 00:25:53.059 Andrei Zvonkov: we're still trying to solve that issue. 283 00:25:53.830 --> 00:25:56.410 Andrei Zvonkov: install uninstall settings 284 00:25:56.980 --> 00:25:58.639 Andrei Zvonkov: under the appearance page. 285 00:25:58.800 --> 00:25:59.410 Ralf Koller: Yeah. 286 00:26:01.700 --> 00:26:03.570 Ralf Koller: One second. I go there again. 287 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:23.784 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, the the the project browser page. Also, you know, they use the icons for the 288 00:26:24.990 --> 00:26:27.300 Andrei Zvonkov: for representation of the modules 289 00:26:27.630 --> 00:26:29.050 Andrei Zvonkov: and teams always 290 00:26:29.190 --> 00:26:31.990 Andrei Zvonkov: historically, had screenshots, although 291 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:37.470 Andrei Zvonkov: these may not be sort of like the best representation of things. But 292 00:26:38.710 --> 00:26:40.549 Andrei Zvonkov: that's how they always been. 293 00:26:41.020 --> 00:26:44.799 Andrei Zvonkov: Also, I'm not sure I'm just kind of thinking. If if they're a part of that 294 00:26:45.970 --> 00:26:47.639 Andrei Zvonkov: project, browser setup 295 00:26:48.410 --> 00:26:50.639 Andrei Zvonkov: in the same card 296 00:26:51.290 --> 00:26:53.389 Andrei Zvonkov: set up, how would they handle 297 00:26:53.530 --> 00:26:55.530 Andrei Zvonkov: screenshots? Or if they have 298 00:26:55.910 --> 00:26:57.050 Andrei Zvonkov: icons. 299 00:26:57.927 --> 00:27:01.910 Ralf Koller: One second about that question. If we go 300 00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:05.834 Ralf Koller: to the extent page and browse 301 00:27:07.520 --> 00:27:08.810 Ralf Koller: on the cards. 302 00:27:09.080 --> 00:27:12.069 Ralf Koller: you have the icon, but if you click 303 00:27:12.770 --> 00:27:16.640 Ralf Koller: on the details. Page? Then? Yeah, at the moment 304 00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:22.490 Ralf Koller: it is not in place, but technically there is a slideshow or a 305 00:27:22.600 --> 00:27:23.700 Ralf Koller: carousel. 306 00:27:23.810 --> 00:27:25.439 Ralf Koller: Were you able. 307 00:27:26.130 --> 00:27:29.940 Ralf Koller: through screenshots and impressions of that 308 00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:31.440 Ralf Koller: of the ui 309 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:33.220 Ralf Koller: of the particular module. 310 00:27:34.660 --> 00:27:44.029 Ralf Koller: and those that carousel is an often requested feature, and an important one in in the survey. That was done. 311 00:27:44.500 --> 00:27:44.859 Andrei Zvonkov: For me. 312 00:27:44.860 --> 00:27:45.640 Ralf Koller: Year, ago. 313 00:27:53.170 --> 00:27:57.689 Ofer Shaal: The Ralph is the idea to remove the appearance. Menu. Item. 314 00:28:02.870 --> 00:28:07.680 Ralf Koller: at least to me. That's my personal opinion. There's no plan at all at this point 315 00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:08.880 Ralf Koller: it but it 316 00:28:10.080 --> 00:28:11.370 Ralf Koller: in the context 317 00:28:11.470 --> 00:28:13.730 Ralf Koller: of moving around those 318 00:28:14.600 --> 00:28:18.549 Ralf Koller: block pages back. Then we already ideated. 319 00:28:18.760 --> 00:28:20.380 Ralf Koller: maybe 320 00:28:21.580 --> 00:28:25.790 Ralf Koller: moving some of those into appearance to make it more 321 00:28:26.470 --> 00:28:28.309 Ralf Koller: consistent or relevant. 322 00:28:28.460 --> 00:28:32.210 Ralf Koller: But yeah, the the longer I think about thought about it now 323 00:28:32.710 --> 00:28:35.869 Ralf Koller: in the, in the context of the points I've made now. 324 00:28:36.871 --> 00:28:44.039 Ralf Koller: based on that statement in the Troopolisms call as well as the whole 325 00:28:44.350 --> 00:28:50.269 Ralf Koller: plans for Project Browser moving in recipes as well as themes 326 00:28:50.950 --> 00:28:52.270 Ralf Koller: for me. 327 00:28:52.870 --> 00:28:54.700 Ralf Koller: and also the fact, yeah, that 328 00:28:55.210 --> 00:28:57.969 Ralf Koller: you don't change your themes that often 329 00:28:58.390 --> 00:29:00.000 Ralf Koller: so to me. 330 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:00.550 Ofer Shaal: Yeah. 331 00:29:00.970 --> 00:29:02.800 Ralf Koller: It makes at least 332 00:29:03.630 --> 00:29:04.779 Ralf Koller: more sense. 333 00:29:05.980 --> 00:29:23.370 Ofer Shaal: As a developer. I love it right. It's like it totally makes sense like appearance takes so much space in a menu that's like always there. You go there once in a lifetime of the site, maybe right like. And and if it could leave somewhere else, that'd be amazing. 334 00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:30.217 Ofer Shaal: The other side in my mind is thinking like, I think also Wordpress, have some kind of a brush with appearance 335 00:29:30.820 --> 00:29:36.759 Ofer Shaal: that makes it clear. But this very little things, at least in the drupal world in there 336 00:29:38.370 --> 00:29:45.919 Ofer Shaal: that yeah, maybe maybe if it's not as easy to find it also, you find it once, and you never look back almost. 337 00:29:46.110 --> 00:29:46.940 Ralf Koller: Yep. 338 00:29:47.220 --> 00:29:48.780 Ralf Koller: one second. 339 00:29:48.780 --> 00:29:51.280 Ofer Shaal: Overall. I think I do like the the idea of 340 00:29:51.570 --> 00:29:55.179 Ofer Shaal: of that not leaving there and taking space in the main menu. 341 00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:57.380 Ralf Koller: Yeah, one. 342 00:29:57.380 --> 00:30:04.949 Simo Hellsten: The 1. 1 reason why you, when you need to visit that page, is when you try to find out if your bug is 343 00:30:05.140 --> 00:30:12.440 Simo Hellsten: theme specific. Or if it's affects all themes. So that's basically the only time you need to stop switching themes 344 00:30:12.500 --> 00:30:13.690 Simo Hellsten: after launch. 345 00:30:14.550 --> 00:30:15.310 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 346 00:30:16.530 --> 00:30:26.790 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, seems like we've opened another can of worms. But I'm I was wondering also the the whole context of admin themes and being part of that 347 00:30:27.250 --> 00:30:30.399 Andrei Zvonkov: settings set up. So you you have the. 348 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:32.010 Andrei Zvonkov: and then you have 349 00:30:33.060 --> 00:30:37.119 Andrei Zvonkov: sort of like, could have parent themes and sub themes 350 00:30:37.860 --> 00:30:39.379 Andrei Zvonkov: that are enabled 351 00:30:39.610 --> 00:30:41.120 Andrei Zvonkov: at the same time. 352 00:30:41.910 --> 00:30:42.370 Ralf Koller: Yep. 353 00:30:42.370 --> 00:30:44.519 Andrei Zvonkov: And you have, you know, I I mean. 354 00:30:45.340 --> 00:30:54.660 Andrei Zvonkov: yeah, I agree, like you only enable a main theme once, but you might be going there and changing the admin theme, for example, from 355 00:30:54.690 --> 00:30:56.120 Andrei Zvonkov: Clara to 356 00:30:56.460 --> 00:30:58.010 Andrei Zvonkov: whatever something else 357 00:30:59.560 --> 00:31:00.730 Andrei Zvonkov: at some point. 358 00:31:01.970 --> 00:31:08.042 Ofer Shaal: Ralph, could you show us wordpress not being a lot the plugins part, because I think 359 00:31:08.890 --> 00:31:20.140 Ofer Shaal: previously in triple themes, were the most pleasant page to look at, and modules is boring simplest now with the project. Browser. It is a beautiful list. So I think. 360 00:31:21.070 --> 00:31:22.170 Ofer Shaal: Yeah. 361 00:31:22.350 --> 00:31:24.990 Ofer Shaal: this is the boring side. It seems. 362 00:31:25.260 --> 00:31:25.810 Ralf Koller: Yeah, but. 363 00:31:25.810 --> 00:31:31.209 Ofer Shaal: I think, in the drupal world it it's it's very nice, now that we have a way to present things. 364 00:31:31.940 --> 00:31:36.379 Ofer Shaal: I really like the idea now of consolidate them together. 365 00:31:37.670 --> 00:31:41.570 Ralf Koller: But one detail I really like about 366 00:31:42.100 --> 00:31:44.868 Ralf Koller: Wordpress in comparison to 367 00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:52.609 Ralf Koller: Project Browser, or in drupal in general. In here you have lists, and you have 368 00:31:52.900 --> 00:31:58.689 Ralf Koller: browse next to it. But in wordpress you have simply a single list for plugins. 369 00:31:58.700 --> 00:32:00.780 Ralf Koller: Aka modules for drupal. 370 00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:08.719 Ralf Koller: and you're able to activate, to delete to act deactivate. And if you go to add New Plugin 371 00:32:09.140 --> 00:32:15.700 Ralf Koller: that way, you get to the browser, which is equivalent to project Browser in that regard, and 372 00:32:16.090 --> 00:32:17.420 Ralf Koller: I wonder 373 00:32:17.550 --> 00:32:19.100 Ralf Koller: technically if 374 00:32:20.030 --> 00:32:25.129 Ralf Koller: having something like oops, too many pages, apologies, and taps. 375 00:32:25.540 --> 00:32:27.490 Ralf Koller: If you would have something like. 376 00:32:27.970 --> 00:32:33.439 Ralf Koller: add a module button instead of removing that local item browse, and having something like. 377 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:38.000 Ralf Koller: add a module. And if let's say you have a 378 00:32:38.290 --> 00:32:45.159 Ralf Koller: you call that modules, then you have a local item for recipes, and you have a local item for themes, and on each of those 379 00:32:47.150 --> 00:32:56.539 Ralf Koller: look on those, look the items. You have a button in that regard. Here add a module, and then you get to the browse page for the source type of just module. 380 00:32:56.860 --> 00:33:01.920 Ralf Koller: And that way it's a clear separation of concern. It's clear. 381 00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:03.100 Ralf Koller: Instead of 382 00:33:03.600 --> 00:33:04.860 Ralf Koller: having here 383 00:33:07.010 --> 00:33:12.919 Ralf Koller: a single umbrella local item containing several sub. I local items. 384 00:33:13.770 --> 00:33:15.449 Ralf Koller: The only detail 385 00:33:16.370 --> 00:33:19.369 Ralf Koller: I would wonder about is the problem 386 00:33:20.650 --> 00:33:21.460 Ralf Koller: of 387 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.739 Ralf Koller: a point that was raised in the context of recipes. 388 00:33:25.970 --> 00:33:34.849 Ralf Koller: that agencies, for example, are able to define their own source type. So at a client they 389 00:33:35.120 --> 00:33:38.519 Ralf Koller: can then show basically that source type 390 00:33:38.590 --> 00:33:42.619 Ralf Koller: with a honed list of recipes 391 00:33:44.040 --> 00:33:49.639 Ralf Koller: bespoke for the client, and people bespoke for their agency, and how to fit that in 392 00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:56.369 Ralf Koller: might be discussable and controversial, but. 393 00:34:00.890 --> 00:34:05.750 Simo Hellsten: Just to point out one of the reasons why we don't have the similar. 394 00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:13.329 Simo Hellsten: With a wordpress, those in the in the list installed plugins. We don't have that. 395 00:34:14.567 --> 00:34:17.290 Simo Hellsten: Activate delete options. 396 00:34:17.500 --> 00:34:22.049 Simo Hellsten: I think one of the reasons is that we can do it at the same time for multiple. 397 00:34:22.659 --> 00:34:31.619 Simo Hellsten: So that that's kind of the the different different thing about people is that we have the check boxes. So we can do. Oh, they have also that. 398 00:34:31.620 --> 00:34:36.130 Ralf Koller: They have. You have the bulk actions for activate and deactivate update. 399 00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:40.690 Ralf Koller: Well, they have that in place as well. 400 00:34:40.699 --> 00:34:41.269 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 401 00:34:44.770 --> 00:34:46.499 Ralf Koller: Though that page is 402 00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:51.139 Ralf Koller: highly condensed and highly functional, and 403 00:34:53.730 --> 00:34:57.270 Ralf Koller: very clearly communicated from my point of view. And 404 00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:04.240 Ralf Koller: and if you take for in comparison. Tuple that list page 405 00:35:05.150 --> 00:35:07.120 Ralf Koller: at the moment you have 4. 406 00:35:07.460 --> 00:35:11.519 Ralf Koller: Then administration, then core experimental field types. 407 00:35:12.230 --> 00:35:18.339 Ralf Koller: those groupings that brings us back to the general what to do with the list. Page meter, item. 408 00:35:18.670 --> 00:35:23.110 Ralf Koller: meter, and then you have other that yeah. 409 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:29.999 Ralf Koller: trash bin taxonomy and then interface. 410 00:35:30.160 --> 00:35:30.930 Ralf Koller: Oh, yeah. 411 00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:37.089 Ralf Koller: And if you compare this, for example, with star shot, and it's something like a web form 412 00:35:37.610 --> 00:35:43.230 Ralf Koller: and Eca in place, it becomes even more overwhelming and confusing. 413 00:35:49.690 --> 00:35:51.430 Ralf Koller: and that also 414 00:35:51.670 --> 00:35:54.036 Ralf Koller: overlaps to the other issue. 415 00:35:55.780 --> 00:35:57.580 Ralf Koller: it's issue number 416 00:35:58.040 --> 00:35:58.840 Ralf Koller: oops 417 00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:10.040 Ralf Koller: 2, 1, and this also in the short list for today, 2, 1, 1, 8 0, 8 1 418 00:36:10.240 --> 00:36:15.379 Ralf Koller: unmet module requirements are hard, too hard to find on admin modules. 419 00:36:16.100 --> 00:36:17.380 Ralf Koller: And there is. 420 00:36:17.600 --> 00:36:19.160 Ralf Koller: for example, the 421 00:36:20.990 --> 00:36:22.190 Ralf Koller: versus 422 00:36:22.490 --> 00:36:25.520 Ralf Koller: yeah, admin toolbar links access filter. 423 00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:30.139 Ralf Koller: as, for example, a disabled checkbox upfront 424 00:36:32.490 --> 00:36:39.850 Ralf Koller: is exactly the reason that issue is about in that case it's an incompatible incompatibility 425 00:36:40.030 --> 00:36:42.219 Ralf Koller: of the module with 1111. 426 00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:45.640 Ralf Koller: But there are also other cases. 427 00:37:25.670 --> 00:37:26.610 Ralf Koller: So 428 00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:36.150 Ralf Koller: any thoughts, any further thoughts, or should we summarize 429 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.110 Ralf Koller: our conclusions for the drop buttons 430 00:37:41.310 --> 00:37:43.960 Ralf Koller: page, and the other fields 431 00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:45.459 Ralf Koller: we've touched so far. 432 00:37:47.830 --> 00:37:49.097 Andrei Zvonkov: Can you actually 433 00:37:50.010 --> 00:37:54.190 Andrei Zvonkov: show that the wordpress appearance page for for another second. 434 00:37:54.350 --> 00:37:54.930 Ralf Koller: Yep. 435 00:37:55.060 --> 00:37:56.380 Ralf Koller: The appearance page. 436 00:37:56.610 --> 00:37:58.440 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah. Okay, yeah. 437 00:38:03.210 --> 00:38:05.220 Ralf Koller: Yeah, do you have the theme details? 438 00:38:08.150 --> 00:38:10.479 Ralf Koller: And you have the option to customize. 439 00:38:16.350 --> 00:38:19.269 Ralf Koller: which I guess is some sort of Gutenberg 440 00:38:22.060 --> 00:38:23.369 Ralf Koller: thing. I'm not sure. 441 00:38:25.490 --> 00:38:27.600 Andrei Zvonkov: but it's like, yeah, it's 442 00:38:28.330 --> 00:38:32.629 Andrei Zvonkov: you take few steps on separate pages to actually, get 443 00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:36.500 Andrei Zvonkov: the thing installed and enabled and configured. 444 00:38:39.980 --> 00:38:42.640 Andrei Zvonkov: yeah, okay, thanks. 445 00:39:13.680 --> 00:39:18.220 Ralf Koller: Yes, also to summarize the add drop buttons to the appearance page issue. 446 00:39:18.240 --> 00:39:21.010 Ralf Koller: so would our recommendation be 447 00:39:21.220 --> 00:39:22.929 Ralf Koller: easier to postpone it 448 00:39:23.650 --> 00:39:25.159 Ralf Koller: or close it. 449 00:39:25.940 --> 00:39:27.160 Ralf Koller: Maybe even. 450 00:39:28.350 --> 00:39:30.859 Simo Hellsten: Actually I I managed to install that 451 00:39:33.050 --> 00:39:34.180 Simo Hellsten: locally. 452 00:39:34.520 --> 00:39:36.299 Simo Hellsten: so I can't share it. But 453 00:39:36.460 --> 00:39:39.520 Simo Hellsten: actually it does have one benefit that it 454 00:39:39.710 --> 00:39:42.000 Simo Hellsten: sits the default 455 00:39:42.390 --> 00:39:43.520 Simo Hellsten: so it 456 00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:45.709 Simo Hellsten: I can maybe share my screen. 457 00:39:45.710 --> 00:39:47.749 Ralf Koller: One second I stopped mine. 458 00:40:29.490 --> 00:40:33.129 Ralf Koller: Seymour, in case you're talking. You're muted right now. 459 00:40:35.970 --> 00:40:37.580 Simo Hellsten: Oh, okay, sorry. 460 00:40:37.640 --> 00:40:41.110 Simo Hellsten: So this is the page with with the 461 00:40:41.350 --> 00:40:43.379 Simo Hellsten: drop button. And I enabled. 462 00:40:43.850 --> 00:40:47.960 Simo Hellsten: So here the default is always setting. So it does 463 00:40:48.270 --> 00:40:54.829 Simo Hellsten: hide the less used options, so settings would be the most used for install themes 464 00:40:56.800 --> 00:41:02.700 Simo Hellsten: and uninstall and set default would be less frequently used, so it does have have that benefit. 465 00:41:05.520 --> 00:41:08.329 Simo Hellsten: And here, for the themes that are 466 00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:14.030 Simo Hellsten: not installed, it has default different options, and the default is installed. 467 00:41:16.550 --> 00:41:17.660 Simo Hellsten: So it's kind of 468 00:41:17.790 --> 00:41:18.500 Simo Hellsten: thus, 469 00:41:20.240 --> 00:41:23.710 Simo Hellsten: Thus implement sensible defaults. 470 00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:26.630 Ralf Koller: True. 471 00:41:27.160 --> 00:41:28.219 Simo Hellsten: And here 472 00:41:29.630 --> 00:41:31.990 Simo Hellsten: the separation of concerns. 473 00:41:32.730 --> 00:41:34.859 Simo Hellsten: because the default is sensible. 474 00:41:36.386 --> 00:41:38.130 Simo Hellsten: It might not be 475 00:41:38.150 --> 00:41:41.089 Simo Hellsten: such a big issue, so it might be 476 00:41:41.230 --> 00:41:44.799 Simo Hellsten: like like the sensible default and hiding that 477 00:41:45.645 --> 00:41:47.909 Simo Hellsten: less frequently used. Options 478 00:41:48.160 --> 00:41:50.950 Simo Hellsten: might be more beneficial than 479 00:41:51.720 --> 00:41:54.030 Simo Hellsten: separating the concerns here. 480 00:41:54.570 --> 00:41:56.039 Simo Hellsten: So I'm kind of a 481 00:41:56.260 --> 00:41:59.720 Simo Hellsten: I actually changed my opinion after after I tried this. 482 00:42:08.230 --> 00:42:12.140 Simo Hellsten: So if we would, if it would have here another option as 483 00:42:12.260 --> 00:42:14.129 Simo Hellsten: set us set as 484 00:42:14.670 --> 00:42:15.720 Simo Hellsten: admin. 485 00:42:16.917 --> 00:42:21.489 Ralf Koller: No, no status admin is set. If you scroll down. 486 00:42:21.740 --> 00:42:27.480 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, but it it would. Oh, oh, yeah, it would be useful to have it there, like as per the. 487 00:42:27.795 --> 00:42:30.949 Ralf Koller: Yeah, yeah, that way. Yeah, around. Yep, yep. I agree. 488 00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:36.820 Ralf Koller: That was one of the points we've suggested back. Then for the 489 00:42:37.160 --> 00:42:42.690 Ralf Koller: appearance Meta to yeah, remove that field set and make it sort 490 00:42:42.740 --> 00:42:43.860 Ralf Koller: of possible. 491 00:42:44.710 --> 00:42:49.740 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, so here, yeah, so here, we're having an issue that improves something. 492 00:42:49.900 --> 00:42:50.500 Simo Hellsten: But 493 00:42:51.810 --> 00:42:54.100 Simo Hellsten: there is some regression. 494 00:42:55.980 --> 00:43:00.576 Simo Hellsten: But I think the improvements are. Yeah. In my opinion, the improvements 495 00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:05.749 Simo Hellsten: are big enough to kind of do 496 00:43:05.810 --> 00:43:08.229 Simo Hellsten: loss and separation of concerns. 497 00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:24.240 Ralf Koller: Sort of agree 498 00:43:25.450 --> 00:43:27.289 Ralf Koller: now, seeing it in action. 499 00:44:02.560 --> 00:44:04.220 Randy Oest (he/him): This does, the page 500 00:44:04.750 --> 00:44:06.840 Randy Oest (he/him): makes it look more organized. 501 00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:19.159 Andrei Zvonkov: I would agree visually, it's a bit cleaner, as in not having these links. 502 00:44:19.370 --> 00:44:21.300 Andrei Zvonkov: especially when they're wrapped 503 00:44:23.270 --> 00:44:25.280 Andrei Zvonkov: and kind of similar to the text. 504 00:44:26.390 --> 00:44:27.939 Andrei Zvonkov: But yeah, I'm still 505 00:44:28.180 --> 00:44:32.580 Andrei Zvonkov: kind of on the fence about the separation of concerns, as in 506 00:44:33.370 --> 00:44:36.440 Andrei Zvonkov: installing uninstalling to me is is. 507 00:44:36.830 --> 00:44:40.160 Andrei Zvonkov: I'm not sure if it's actually part of the settings 508 00:44:40.520 --> 00:44:41.809 Andrei Zvonkov: like settings just 509 00:44:42.460 --> 00:44:48.460 Andrei Zvonkov: to me is a 1 thing, and uninstalling is another. But having it under the 510 00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:51.140 Andrei Zvonkov: the settings dropdown 511 00:44:52.475 --> 00:44:58.100 Andrei Zvonkov: unless it's discovered once, and you know it's there. But otherwise it's kinda confusing, like. 512 00:44:59.720 --> 00:45:03.620 Andrei Zvonkov: not knowing that uninstall is actually part of that 513 00:45:03.630 --> 00:45:04.950 Andrei Zvonkov: settings set up. 514 00:45:09.390 --> 00:45:11.529 Andrei Zvonkov: That's just my opinion. Yeah. So 515 00:45:12.010 --> 00:45:16.830 Andrei Zvonkov: yeah, I'm also kinda on the fences, and none. Now that I've seen this. 516 00:45:18.570 --> 00:45:22.109 Andrei Zvonkov: this might be an improvement, but at the same time 517 00:45:24.160 --> 00:45:25.240 Andrei Zvonkov: not sure. 518 00:45:44.580 --> 00:45:46.040 Ralf Koller: One question 519 00:45:46.450 --> 00:45:48.720 Ralf Koller: and one suggestion. 520 00:45:49.290 --> 00:45:56.429 Ralf Koller: First, st at the moment the the drop button or the stand alone, settings button are left aligned 521 00:45:57.400 --> 00:45:58.130 Ralf Koller: but 522 00:45:58.450 --> 00:46:00.009 Ralf Koller: for my feeling. 523 00:46:00.600 --> 00:46:02.630 Ralf Koller: would it be more 524 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:10.389 Ralf Koller: at least for me? It feels like the button should be a right, aligned 525 00:46:13.140 --> 00:46:15.820 Ralf Koller: as it was on 526 00:46:16.640 --> 00:46:17.770 Ralf Koller: current. 527 00:46:19.740 --> 00:46:21.219 Ralf Koller: Yeah, in the current 528 00:46:22.670 --> 00:46:29.529 Ralf Koller: on the current page without the patch up, light all the buttons are right aligned, and then stack up to the left. 529 00:46:30.310 --> 00:46:32.720 Ralf Koller: Well, here it's the other way around. 530 00:46:44.030 --> 00:46:48.689 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, I would probably agree. Makes sense to space it out a bit more. 531 00:46:53.140 --> 00:46:54.889 Ralf Koller: Yeah, I think in the 532 00:46:55.140 --> 00:46:57.300 Ralf Koller: triple design system. 533 00:46:58.350 --> 00:46:59.270 Ralf Koller: the 534 00:47:01.510 --> 00:47:05.830 Ralf Koller: current state of the cards. One second I'm just looking it up. 535 00:47:10.250 --> 00:47:12.360 Ralf Koller: Where's the appearance page? 536 00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:16.580 Andrei Zvonkov: And if we go by the again by the 537 00:47:19.048 --> 00:47:21.800 Andrei Zvonkov: the modules, browser cards. 538 00:47:22.790 --> 00:47:27.560 Andrei Zvonkov: the way they're currently implemented. Again, that's sort of like the icon is on top 539 00:47:27.980 --> 00:47:29.320 Andrei Zvonkov: the content 540 00:47:29.680 --> 00:47:32.139 Andrei Zvonkov: where a small description is below 541 00:47:32.160 --> 00:47:33.610 Andrei Zvonkov: and the button 542 00:47:33.890 --> 00:47:35.669 Andrei Zvonkov: is on the right as well. 543 00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:43.939 Andrei Zvonkov: So here we kind of have a card is set up differently where you have the screenshot on the left text on the right. 544 00:47:47.140 --> 00:47:47.850 Andrei Zvonkov: But 545 00:47:48.780 --> 00:47:49.550 Andrei Zvonkov: yeah. 546 00:47:50.080 --> 00:47:52.000 Andrei Zvonkov: that's, I guess, a whole. Another 547 00:47:52.910 --> 00:47:53.990 Andrei Zvonkov: issue. 548 00:47:56.173 --> 00:47:59.259 Ralf Koller: I've posted the link to the troop design system 549 00:47:59.790 --> 00:48:02.329 Ralf Koller: and in the sidebar in the 550 00:48:02.580 --> 00:48:04.339 Ralf Koller: on the style guide page 551 00:48:04.820 --> 00:48:06.440 Ralf Koller: at the bottom you have. 552 00:48:06.600 --> 00:48:07.360 Ralf Koller: Oh. 553 00:48:08.660 --> 00:48:09.630 Ralf Koller: one 554 00:48:10.470 --> 00:48:15.160 Ralf Koller: entry for the cart component, and there it is also right aligned. 555 00:48:28.890 --> 00:48:31.040 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, I see that. Thank you. 556 00:48:46.640 --> 00:48:53.579 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah. They they actually have an appearance. I mean the theme card as well in there on the bottom, where the 557 00:48:55.010 --> 00:48:57.950 Andrei Zvonkov: all 3 buttons or 3 links, or 558 00:48:59.550 --> 00:49:03.540 Andrei Zvonkov: just in lines and in their left aligned. But again, that doesn't 559 00:49:04.510 --> 00:49:05.979 Andrei Zvonkov: have to be that way. 560 00:49:07.070 --> 00:49:09.170 Andrei Zvonkov: It's actually, no, they have a different. 561 00:49:21.660 --> 00:49:23.629 Ralf Koller: They have a steam car as well 562 00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:26.170 Ralf Koller: under Arthur. 563 00:49:26.450 --> 00:49:34.630 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, the very bottom. But bottom of the style. Guide, there's the a representation of the 7 564 00:49:34.790 --> 00:49:38.549 Andrei Zvonkov: 8.8 point O that dash dev theme 565 00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:40.988 Andrei Zvonkov: that looks to me like 566 00:49:41.620 --> 00:49:42.769 Andrei Zvonkov: a team card 567 00:49:44.580 --> 00:49:47.699 Andrei Zvonkov: with a you know the 7 theme screenshot. 568 00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:51.539 Andrei Zvonkov: The style guide is is this. 569 00:49:51.740 --> 00:49:54.680 Andrei Zvonkov: he's from a while back, too. Right like I'm. 570 00:49:56.520 --> 00:50:00.490 Ralf Koller: I think it's still actively worked on and discussed. 571 00:50:00.630 --> 00:50:01.370 Andrei Zvonkov: Okay. 572 00:50:02.300 --> 00:50:06.390 Ralf Koller: So if you take a look at the comments on the Sidebar and the Timestamps 573 00:50:06.540 --> 00:50:08.200 Ralf Koller: 6 months ago. 574 00:50:08.670 --> 00:50:10.270 Ralf Koller: some, some are 575 00:50:11.490 --> 00:50:13.349 Ralf Koller: more reasons, so 576 00:50:13.410 --> 00:50:14.920 Ralf Koller: it is still used. 577 00:50:20.290 --> 00:50:22.990 Ralf Koller: There it! Okay. Now I see where you were. 578 00:50:28.070 --> 00:50:31.869 Ralf Koller: Okay. And then there those are left aligned. Okay. 579 00:50:32.750 --> 00:50:36.750 Andrei Zvonkov: But then, yeah, on the other cards, the the top ones. 580 00:50:37.620 --> 00:50:39.020 Andrei Zvonkov: the right orange. 581 00:50:39.160 --> 00:50:39.880 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah. 582 00:50:41.830 --> 00:50:45.669 Andrei Zvonkov: But I agree. It makes sense to put it on the right, I think, just for 583 00:50:46.110 --> 00:50:49.250 Andrei Zvonkov: spacing and overall. Kind of 584 00:50:50.300 --> 00:50:52.950 Andrei Zvonkov: have more breathing room for stuff 585 00:50:53.190 --> 00:50:56.970 Andrei Zvonkov: that screen again. The screenshots themselves when they have text. 586 00:50:58.139 --> 00:51:02.420 Andrei Zvonkov: If it's a screenshot of a theme kind of makes it 587 00:51:03.180 --> 00:51:04.740 Andrei Zvonkov: bit more confusing 588 00:51:05.630 --> 00:51:06.700 Andrei Zvonkov: in a way. 589 00:51:06.810 --> 00:51:07.490 Andrei Zvonkov: you know. 590 00:51:14.675 --> 00:51:15.570 Ralf Koller: So 591 00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:22.960 Ralf Koller: how should we proceed? 592 00:51:23.670 --> 00:51:25.399 Ralf Koller: my suggestion 593 00:51:26.950 --> 00:51:28.540 Ralf Koller: would be 594 00:51:29.700 --> 00:51:33.889 Ralf Koller: so we have sort of a agreement, or 595 00:51:35.820 --> 00:51:38.320 Ralf Koller: some of us are still on the fence. 596 00:51:38.750 --> 00:51:42.319 Ralf Koller: I'm leaning towards. Basically, that is not a bad idea 597 00:51:42.540 --> 00:51:44.810 Ralf Koller: moving everything into that 598 00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:48.749 Ralf Koller: drop button like Seymour. 599 00:51:48.890 --> 00:51:50.480 Ralf Koller: demonstrated. 600 00:51:50.580 --> 00:51:54.910 Ralf Koller: but still taking into consideration 601 00:51:55.070 --> 00:52:01.949 Ralf Koller: all the upcoming changes with Project Browser as well as to the modules, pages, and potentially appearance page. 602 00:52:04.250 --> 00:52:06.270 Ralf Koller: maybe, as a consensus 603 00:52:07.240 --> 00:52:09.520 Ralf Koller: or suggestion for consensus. 604 00:52:11.160 --> 00:52:13.059 Ralf Koller: that the issue itself 605 00:52:13.330 --> 00:52:14.120 Ralf Koller: is 606 00:52:15.570 --> 00:52:18.829 Ralf Koller: at least okay or use useful. 607 00:52:19.520 --> 00:52:27.120 Ralf Koller: but maybe to postpone it until the other parts. Other moving parts are more settled. 608 00:52:27.300 --> 00:52:29.000 Ralf Koller: and then see 609 00:52:29.310 --> 00:52:30.480 Ralf Koller: if it's 610 00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:36.950 Ralf Koller: still make sense, or might need some adjustments. 611 00:52:41.140 --> 00:52:42.360 Ralf Koller: Yeah, all I would. 612 00:52:43.860 --> 00:52:45.079 Ralf Koller: I'm sorry. Go first.st 613 00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:46.609 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, no, just 614 00:52:46.930 --> 00:52:49.880 Andrei Zvonkov: in agreement with the 615 00:52:50.620 --> 00:52:53.059 Andrei Zvonkov: postponing this for for now. 616 00:52:57.850 --> 00:52:59.159 Randy Oest (he/him): Also an agreement. 617 00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:09.090 Ralf Koller: And yours for Seymour. 618 00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:34.799 Ralf Koller: You're still muted in case you were already talking. 619 00:53:51.750 --> 00:53:52.490 Ralf Koller: And 620 00:53:55.120 --> 00:53:57.250 Ralf Koller: One further suggestion. 621 00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:02.559 Ralf Koller: should we try to 622 00:54:02.900 --> 00:54:04.720 Ralf Koller: get a bigger discussion. 623 00:54:06.300 --> 00:54:08.399 Ralf Koller: as suggested with 624 00:54:08.430 --> 00:54:10.460 Ralf Koller: people from the Recipes 625 00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:14.489 Ralf Koller: initiative as well as Project Browser. 626 00:54:14.810 --> 00:54:16.529 Ralf Koller: to discuss the 627 00:54:19.250 --> 00:54:20.690 Ralf Koller: extend page 628 00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:23.210 Ralf Koller: as a whole, as a whole. 629 00:54:23.820 --> 00:54:26.439 Ralf Koller: and how to handle things. There. 630 00:54:29.810 --> 00:54:35.480 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, I think that makes sense. I, yeah, I'm kind of with you on on the stuff that you were 631 00:54:36.680 --> 00:54:37.973 Andrei Zvonkov: showing. And 632 00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:43.800 Andrei Zvonkov: the potential for moving of the appearance into the 633 00:54:43.850 --> 00:54:45.629 Andrei Zvonkov: the whole extent 634 00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:47.640 Andrei Zvonkov: browser 635 00:54:47.960 --> 00:54:49.060 Andrei Zvonkov: context. 636 00:54:49.940 --> 00:54:51.760 Andrei Zvonkov: So I mean, it's yeah. 637 00:54:52.200 --> 00:54:55.790 Andrei Zvonkov: Discussion couldn't be started there. That would probably be great. 638 00:55:00.140 --> 00:55:01.010 Ralf Koller: Okay. 639 00:55:04.450 --> 00:55:06.440 Ralf Koller: when I try to raise that 640 00:55:07.490 --> 00:55:10.019 Ralf Koller: another time. And 641 00:55:13.250 --> 00:55:13.950 Ralf Koller: yeah. 642 00:55:14.820 --> 00:55:15.890 Ralf Koller: we'll see 643 00:55:16.560 --> 00:55:18.350 Ralf Koller: if others are agreeing 644 00:55:18.500 --> 00:55:20.910 Ralf Koller: for a bigger discussion. And 645 00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:27.729 Ralf Koller: Okidoke, yeah, then I'll 646 00:55:28.010 --> 00:55:30.370 Ralf Koller: comment on the drop button issue. 647 00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:36.070 Ralf Koller: And yeah, I'm not sure 648 00:55:36.100 --> 00:55:37.859 Ralf Koller: if it makes sense to 649 00:55:38.870 --> 00:55:39.960 Ralf Koller: continue 650 00:55:40.630 --> 00:55:45.010 Ralf Koller: and start another issue. Cause with 7 min left 651 00:55:45.890 --> 00:55:47.170 Ralf Koller: might be a bit 652 00:55:51.040 --> 00:55:53.130 Ralf Koller: make anything useful. 653 00:55:53.390 --> 00:55:54.319 Ralf Koller: and the time. 654 00:55:58.650 --> 00:56:01.259 Randy Oest (he/him): Well, thank you for facilitating. Today. 655 00:56:02.030 --> 00:56:03.439 Randy Oest (he/him): We appreciate it. 656 00:56:03.780 --> 00:56:05.200 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, thank, you. 657 00:56:06.690 --> 00:56:07.660 Ralf Koller: You're welcome. 658 00:56:07.660 --> 00:56:08.600 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. Thanks. 659 00:56:10.870 --> 00:56:13.319 Ralf Koller: Hope it was somehow okay, ish 660 00:56:13.330 --> 00:56:14.680 Ralf Koller: course. Never done it 661 00:56:15.180 --> 00:56:16.429 Ralf Koller: in that extent. 662 00:56:17.920 --> 00:56:19.478 Andrei Zvonkov: Oh, you did. Great. Yeah. 663 00:56:20.010 --> 00:56:21.289 Randy Oest (he/him): Yeah. Could have fooled me. 664 00:56:25.510 --> 00:56:32.159 Ralf Koller: Okey Doke. Yeah. Then I think let's end a little bit early today, and 665 00:56:33.300 --> 00:56:36.100 Ralf Koller: but we will continue with the other 666 00:56:36.580 --> 00:56:38.340 Ralf Koller: open issues next week. 667 00:56:39.100 --> 00:56:44.240 Ralf Koller: and maybe yeah, the errors, at least for me, I think, Seymour, you're on 668 00:56:44.650 --> 00:56:47.199 Ralf Koller: Linux, I suppose, aren't you? 669 00:56:47.804 --> 00:56:50.879 Simo Hellsten: No, actually, I'm well, I'm kind of a 670 00:56:51.790 --> 00:56:53.330 Simo Hellsten: 60, 40. So 671 00:56:53.490 --> 00:56:55.059 Simo Hellsten: on, most, mostly on. 672 00:56:55.230 --> 00:56:56.730 Simo Hellsten: not when working. But 673 00:56:56.940 --> 00:57:01.030 Simo Hellsten: I do have another one. That's Linux, what I what I use for on my 674 00:57:01.370 --> 00:57:02.790 Simo Hellsten: kind of spare time. 675 00:57:02.950 --> 00:57:04.320 Simo Hellsten: So I'm using both. 676 00:57:04.830 --> 00:57:05.716 Ralf Koller: Okay, but 677 00:57:07.150 --> 00:57:11.128 Ralf Koller: cause you were able to apply and check out the patch. 678 00:57:11.490 --> 00:57:13.600 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, yeah, that one I did on Mac. 679 00:57:14.530 --> 00:57:16.470 Ralf Koller: That was on Mac. Okay, yeah. 680 00:57:18.080 --> 00:57:21.170 Ralf Koller: But how have you applied it in in git or. 681 00:57:21.710 --> 00:57:23.890 Simo Hellsten: I clone the branch 682 00:57:24.300 --> 00:57:26.179 Simo Hellsten: and then check out 683 00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:28.110 Simo Hellsten: a clone that 684 00:57:29.315 --> 00:57:30.130 Simo Hellsten: pork! 685 00:57:30.230 --> 00:57:32.339 Simo Hellsten: And then I took out the branch. 686 00:57:32.850 --> 00:57:34.370 Simo Hellsten: and then I do that. 687 00:57:34.982 --> 00:57:36.190 Simo Hellsten: Do you, Devin? 688 00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:37.510 Simo Hellsten: Config 689 00:57:38.150 --> 00:57:39.450 Simo Hellsten: on command line. 690 00:57:40.210 --> 00:57:44.409 Ralf Koller: Oh, really cause. Yeah, I'm on the Mac as well. And 691 00:57:45.265 --> 00:57:49.064 Ralf Koller: I run in that error, and that is due to some 692 00:57:49.710 --> 00:57:51.050 Ralf Koller: casing issue. 693 00:57:51.820 --> 00:57:53.200 Ralf Koller: and 694 00:57:53.250 --> 00:57:55.090 Ralf Koller: I'm unable to check it out. 695 00:57:55.120 --> 00:57:58.880 Ralf Koller: So that was why I was. I'm curious right now. 696 00:57:59.340 --> 00:58:01.049 Ralf Koller: Why, you haven't front end of Z. 697 00:58:01.170 --> 00:58:02.880 Ralf Koller: Or do you have a 698 00:58:03.040 --> 00:58:07.140 Ralf Koller: case? Insensitive file system, or Kense case, sensitive on the Mac. 699 00:58:08.350 --> 00:58:10.809 Simo Hellsten: I didn't check. It's I think it's default. 700 00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:13.070 Ralf Koller: And then it's case, insensitive. 701 00:58:13.350 --> 00:58:13.920 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 702 00:58:16.740 --> 00:58:17.639 Ralf Koller: That's odd. 703 00:58:24.160 --> 00:58:24.880 Ralf Koller: Oh. 704 00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:27.200 Ralf Koller: oh, just 1 1 question. 705 00:58:27.780 --> 00:58:29.409 Ralf Koller: So you cloned 706 00:58:29.670 --> 00:58:34.569 Ralf Koller: the the issue fog and not the 707 00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:39.410 Ralf Koller: No, that doesn't make sense. Sorry. 708 00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:46.310 Ralf Koller: I think I gotta just gotta test it a bit more 709 00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:48.020 Ralf Koller: after the meeting. Now. 710 00:58:50.070 --> 00:58:51.030 Ralf Koller: Strange. 711 00:58:53.060 --> 00:58:55.619 Ralf Koller: because I run consistently into that error 712 00:58:57.230 --> 00:58:58.740 Ralf Koller: with every 713 00:58:58.770 --> 00:58:59.960 Ralf Koller: March request. 714 00:59:11.300 --> 00:59:14.730 Simo Hellsten: So basically, I do those 3 things, and then 715 00:59:15.680 --> 00:59:18.060 Simo Hellsten: then I do ddep configs. 716 00:59:21.029 --> 00:59:21.849 Ralf Koller: But oh. 717 00:59:22.070 --> 00:59:23.440 Ralf Koller: okay. 718 00:59:24.670 --> 00:59:26.639 Ralf Koller: So you clone the issue. 719 00:59:27.560 --> 00:59:28.260 Ralf Koller: Yes. 720 00:59:28.640 --> 00:59:29.650 Ralf Koller: Okay. Cause 721 00:59:30.741 --> 00:59:34.450 Ralf Koller: I cloned the the entire 722 00:59:34.570 --> 00:59:36.400 Ralf Koller: core repo and then 723 00:59:36.410 --> 00:59:42.110 Ralf Koller: added the issue fork to it, and then did the checkout, and then on checkout. 724 00:59:42.120 --> 00:59:44.200 Ralf Koller: I always, when I 725 00:59:44.210 --> 00:59:50.440 Ralf Koller: change the branch from 11 x to that particular fork, then I get the error. 726 00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:56.020 Ralf Koller: but you are direct, and that might be the reason why you don't run into an error. Then. 727 00:59:56.210 --> 00:59:57.390 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I don't know 728 00:59:57.580 --> 00:59:59.639 Simo Hellsten: if if the fork was done 729 00:59:59.650 --> 01:00:02.300 Simo Hellsten: a while ago, then it's kind of that 730 01:00:02.750 --> 01:00:03.530 Simo Hellsten: old. 731 01:00:03.650 --> 01:00:07.320 Simo Hellsten: old pork, or or it's not not the current head 732 01:00:07.710 --> 01:00:09.230 Simo Hellsten: or the little branch. 733 01:00:09.670 --> 01:00:14.160 Ralf Koller: Yeah. The head got on the 13th of August. 734 01:00:14.300 --> 01:00:15.240 Ralf Koller: Ace 735 01:00:15.490 --> 01:00:21.080 Ralf Koller: commit that was fixing spellings, and that changed from an all lower case to a camel case. And that 736 01:00:21.900 --> 01:00:23.839 Ralf Koller: is basically the 737 01:00:24.350 --> 01:00:27.950 Ralf Koller: problem that is causing the error. When I tried to check out. 738 01:00:28.350 --> 01:00:29.940 Ralf Koller: yeah, after adding. 739 01:00:30.090 --> 01:00:32.989 Ralf Koller: Okay, now, I understand. Okay, thank you. 740 01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:35.460 Ralf Koller: Poor 741 01:00:36.860 --> 01:00:42.079 Ralf Koller: cause that that you were able to on a Mac. That was confusing me. But now I understand. 742 01:00:42.290 --> 01:00:42.980 Ralf Koller: Yes. 743 01:00:43.150 --> 01:00:47.960 Ralf Koller: cool, cool. So yeah, thank you everyone and 744 01:00:48.290 --> 01:00:50.609 Ralf Koller: have a nice weekend. Yeah, have a nice. 745 01:00:50.610 --> 01:00:51.190 Simo Hellsten: With them. 746 01:00:51.600 --> 01:00:53.000 Andrei Zvonkov: You, too. Thank you. Bye. Now. 747 01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:53.750 Ralf Koller: Bye.