WEBVTT 48 00:04:40.340 --> 00:04:45.580 benji: Welcome. This is the troople Usability meeting for September 13, th 2,024. 49 00:04:45.760 --> 00:04:50.239 benji: I'm Benji Fisher, moderating. Ralph Kohler is sharing his screen. 50 00:04:50.570 --> 00:04:54.350 benji: and also present are Simo Helston and Aaron Mikkel. 51 00:04:54.420 --> 00:04:55.439 benji: Go ahead, Ralph. 52 00:04:56.697 --> 00:05:09.560 Ralf Koller: We are looking at the same issue we've taken a look at in the last 10 min of last week's meeting. It's issue number 3, 4, 7 0, 4, 9, 7 at a title formatter. 53 00:05:11.520 --> 00:05:20.259 Ralf Koller: I'll go quickly through in the interface. Oh, one second. I'll also share my oops. Apologies for the quick 54 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:22.070 Ralf Koller: animation. 55 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:28.649 Ralf Koller: I'll share my 56 00:05:30.410 --> 00:05:31.600 Ralf Koller: instance. 57 00:05:32.110 --> 00:05:33.070 Ralf Koller: Swell! 58 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:36.970 Ralf Koller: Too many windows open. 59 00:05:38.030 --> 00:05:40.960 Ralf Koller: Where's the chat? There's the chat and 60 00:05:41.180 --> 00:05:43.870 Ralf Koller: posted also admin admin. 61 00:05:47.340 --> 00:05:49.140 Ralf Koller: And let's quickly 62 00:05:49.340 --> 00:05:54.109 Ralf Koller: go through the setup because Aaron wasn't there last week. 63 00:05:55.133 --> 00:05:56.900 Ralf Koller: It's basically 64 00:05:57.330 --> 00:05:58.840 Ralf Koller: on a content type. 65 00:06:02.110 --> 00:06:08.000 Ralf Koller: For in the steps to reproduce, it's basically you had to add a plain text field. 66 00:06:08.620 --> 00:06:10.030 Ralf Koller: And 67 00:06:10.250 --> 00:06:11.290 Ralf Koller: then 68 00:06:13.980 --> 00:06:17.940 Ralf Koller: you have basically over here in the manage display page oops 69 00:06:18.310 --> 00:06:20.490 Ralf Koller: by default, just the plain text. 70 00:06:20.640 --> 00:06:21.760 Ralf Koller: but 71 00:06:21.950 --> 00:06:25.650 Ralf Koller: with the patch in place. 72 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:28.010 Ralf Koller: you get the option title. 73 00:06:28.740 --> 00:06:40.950 Ralf Koller: and if you go to the settings, then aside the link to the content, you also have the option to set basically the tag for 74 00:06:41.540 --> 00:06:45.629 Ralf Koller: that field. So basically you can choose between span diff. 75 00:06:45.760 --> 00:06:47.759 Ralf Koller: H, 1, 2 h. 6, 76 00:06:47.870 --> 00:06:51.409 Ralf Koller: and in the front end it looks like 77 00:06:52.371 --> 00:06:55.019 Ralf Koller: let's go to content 78 00:06:56.730 --> 00:06:58.150 Ralf Koller: and test. 79 00:07:00.910 --> 00:07:04.369 Ralf Koller: So, oops, I'll go back to the 80 00:07:05.030 --> 00:07:09.939 Ralf Koller: add it here. Yeah. The plain text is just this is a test. 81 00:07:10.020 --> 00:07:12.050 Ralf Koller: and, as you can see here. 82 00:07:12.820 --> 00:07:16.450 Ralf Koller: this is a test underlined, and if we go oops 83 00:07:18.010 --> 00:07:18.940 Ralf Koller: and here 84 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:23.410 Ralf Koller: and take a look 85 00:07:24.200 --> 00:07:26.840 Ralf Koller: there, then you can see H. 2 86 00:07:29.030 --> 00:07:29.950 Ralf Koller: s. 87 00:07:31.520 --> 00:07:35.990 Ralf Koller: Oops, too many windows. It was set 88 00:07:38.780 --> 00:07:40.080 Ralf Koller: contents 89 00:07:43.460 --> 00:07:44.230 Ralf Koller: bye. 90 00:07:44.970 --> 00:07:47.660 Ralf Koller: yeah, as it was set here. Display SH. 2. 91 00:07:50.290 --> 00:07:51.060 Ralf Koller: So 92 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:52.990 Ralf Koller: any questions. 93 00:08:06.260 --> 00:08:08.140 benji: I see that off her shelves 94 00:08:08.440 --> 00:08:10.350 benji: joined us in the last few minutes. 95 00:08:11.877 --> 00:08:15.290 benji: So this formatter would be available for 96 00:08:15.450 --> 00:08:17.450 benji: any plain text field. 97 00:08:19.810 --> 00:08:21.759 Ralf Koller: as far as I understood it. Yes. 98 00:08:25.030 --> 00:08:31.470 benji: And I noticed, looking at the issue. It says that it is split off from 99 00:08:32.010 --> 00:08:35.769 benji: some some other issue, and there's also a parent issue. 100 00:08:39.929 --> 00:08:43.349 benji: so I think it's it's part of a larger 101 00:08:45.210 --> 00:08:46.930 benji: plan, which 102 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:48.830 benji: maybe 103 00:08:49.380 --> 00:08:51.883 benji: the goal is to 104 00:08:54.640 --> 00:08:58.760 benji: is to let us format the the actual title. Field. 105 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:03.439 benji: Using this formatter and adding the formatter is is one step in that. 106 00:09:04.981 --> 00:09:11.919 Ralf Koller: It's in the context, as you said, making the base field like the title field available there at the moment. It is not. 107 00:09:12.380 --> 00:09:13.320 Ralf Koller: and 108 00:09:13.770 --> 00:09:16.169 Ralf Koller: that is, I guess, the main 109 00:09:17.500 --> 00:09:18.470 Ralf Koller: objective 110 00:09:18.670 --> 00:09:20.019 Ralf Koller: for the Meta issue. 111 00:09:20.810 --> 00:09:22.220 Ralf Koller: enabling all that. 112 00:09:23.220 --> 00:09:25.129 benji: So for the moment. We're. 113 00:09:25.170 --> 00:09:30.110 benji: you know, to control scope. They've created this subchild issue. 114 00:09:30.700 --> 00:09:32.180 benji: And 115 00:09:33.150 --> 00:09:36.370 benji: seems like a reasonable thing to do. 116 00:09:37.329 --> 00:09:42.269 benji: Oh, I'd like to note also, Andres Vonkovs just joined us. 117 00:09:44.160 --> 00:09:44.840 benji: Hi! 118 00:09:46.460 --> 00:09:49.360 benji: So what are the usability concerns here? 119 00:09:54.820 --> 00:09:57.190 benji: Is it a question of 120 00:09:59.160 --> 00:10:01.009 benji: of the the Admin 121 00:10:01.590 --> 00:10:04.869 benji: interface. Are are there any problems raised there? 122 00:10:13.140 --> 00:10:16.160 benji: Or I guess, before going before asking that I should 123 00:10:16.640 --> 00:10:19.799 benji: 1st check? Does does anyone else have any 124 00:10:20.020 --> 00:10:21.639 benji: questions about 125 00:10:22.520 --> 00:10:24.900 benji: what this particular issue does. 126 00:10:30.580 --> 00:10:31.280 benji: Yes. 127 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:34.120 Aaron McHale: All clear. 128 00:10:35.380 --> 00:10:36.055 benji: Okay, 129 00:10:38.070 --> 00:10:47.290 benji: can we search the issue and and for for the word usability, and and see whether anyone raised particular usability concerns? When they added the tag. 130 00:11:02.260 --> 00:11:05.729 benji: this is changing the ui, so adding the Usability tag 131 00:11:06.980 --> 00:11:10.940 benji: as a new form. This should have a usability review as well. 132 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:13.840 benji: adding that tag 133 00:11:17.450 --> 00:11:20.389 benji: and screenshots available from the issue summary. 134 00:11:30.520 --> 00:11:32.420 Ralf Koller: So no particular questions. 135 00:11:45.800 --> 00:11:47.580 Ralf Koller: the only detail 136 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:50.910 Ralf Koller: is something, I think. 137 00:11:51.190 --> 00:11:52.050 Ralf Koller: was it? 138 00:11:53.150 --> 00:11:56.289 Ralf Koller: Oh, yeah, in comment. Number 16, 139 00:11:57.820 --> 00:12:08.670 Ralf Koller: M. Radcliff wrote. Could a site builder end up creating a situation where they set the subtitle to use H. 2. And then the hierarchy no longer matches between teaser and page views. 140 00:12:21.490 --> 00:12:24.589 benji: Yes, that's certainly a possibility. That's 141 00:12:24.680 --> 00:12:25.909 benji: sort of a 142 00:12:27.370 --> 00:12:29.450 benji: sort of a known problem 143 00:12:29.660 --> 00:12:30.800 benji: with drupal. 144 00:12:31.776 --> 00:12:35.460 benji: That it's it's difficult to get the 145 00:12:36.280 --> 00:12:38.629 benji: correct hierarchy of header 146 00:12:38.750 --> 00:12:39.800 benji: tags. 147 00:12:40.775 --> 00:12:47.319 benji: I don't think that this makes it any worse. You have the option of just using span 148 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:49.660 benji: what I do. 149 00:13:05.310 --> 00:13:07.310 benji: So I guess the 150 00:13:10.890 --> 00:13:17.549 benji: Usability question is just, are there any changes that should be made to 151 00:13:18.450 --> 00:13:20.459 benji: the admin interface? 152 00:13:21.190 --> 00:13:24.349 benji: Like, for example, is title, the 153 00:13:25.100 --> 00:13:28.420 benji: best name for this formatter. 154 00:13:30.590 --> 00:13:37.429 benji: And I'm poking around at your sample site. Ralph, did you put it on the the basic page or the test content type? 155 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:48.100 benji: Right? It's on the test content. Type. 156 00:14:10.310 --> 00:14:12.160 benji: so his title 157 00:14:12.290 --> 00:14:14.940 benji: a good name for this formatter. 158 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:35.999 Simo Hellsten: Think it looks more more like a heading than title. 159 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:44.179 benji: You get a thumbs up from Ralph. 160 00:14:46.890 --> 00:14:48.509 Andrei Zvonkov: Was thinking the same thing. 161 00:14:48.560 --> 00:14:50.869 Andrei Zvonkov: I was in title and heading 162 00:14:51.430 --> 00:14:54.579 Andrei Zvonkov: sort of interchangeable, or I mean 163 00:14:55.560 --> 00:15:01.010 Andrei Zvonkov: both could be used. But if if the only option is H. 2. Then it's 164 00:15:01.530 --> 00:15:02.890 Andrei Zvonkov: it's actually heading 165 00:15:03.670 --> 00:15:05.200 Andrei Zvonkov: rather than the title. 166 00:15:06.570 --> 00:15:10.040 benji: Okay, Ralph, could you open up the configuration again? 167 00:15:10.550 --> 00:15:14.419 benji: Because I guess and Andre missed that demonstration? 168 00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:16.649 benji: H. 2 is not the only option. One. 169 00:15:17.780 --> 00:15:18.100 Andrei Zvonkov: Morton. 170 00:15:18.100 --> 00:15:18.850 Ralf Koller: Tenant, if. 171 00:15:19.630 --> 00:15:20.750 Andrei Zvonkov: I see. Okay. 172 00:15:27.030 --> 00:15:29.438 Andrei Zvonkov: But yeah, I often find myself 173 00:15:29.910 --> 00:15:32.559 Andrei Zvonkov: in terms of naming things. Whenever I have. 174 00:15:32.810 --> 00:15:36.570 Andrei Zvonkov: you know, headings or titles like, what? What is the best 175 00:15:37.050 --> 00:15:40.369 Andrei Zvonkov: label for that like if I'm if it's in the H 176 00:15:40.460 --> 00:15:44.328 Andrei Zvonkov: tech. But yeah, if there's divs and spans in there too. 177 00:15:47.860 --> 00:15:48.799 benji: Go ahead, Aaron! 178 00:15:52.310 --> 00:16:01.179 Aaron McHale: Thanks. Sorry. My something happened with the the zoom in it to restart it. So I missed a little bit of the conversation just there, but 179 00:16:01.950 --> 00:16:13.220 Aaron McHale: so I'm not sure what's been said already, but I'll just give my my thoughts, and then we can hopefully. Some of it's been covered. I I think that the 180 00:16:13.390 --> 00:16:27.972 Aaron McHale: this is a certainly a positive step forward. And I like that. It's been done in a way you could apply this to to other fields, because I know that sites I've worked on with particularly complex content models. This would be quite useful. 181 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:52.729 Aaron McHale: I actually think I did catch what you were saying, Benji, about the the issue. Where? Yeah. If you have a T, you know, a teaser? An h 2 is always not appropriate and actually, this potentially helps, I think, mitigate that, because then, in the Teaser view, you could set the title to be, you know, H. 4, or whatever's the most appropriate for that particular view display. So I think that this is actually really positive step and potentially mitigating 182 00:16:52.730 --> 00:17:01.152 Aaron McHale: the issue of you know, mismatched content structures. And definitely something I would take advantage of. 183 00:17:01.680 --> 00:17:04.140 Aaron McHale: yeah. And I I think that the only 184 00:17:04.180 --> 00:17:07.900 Aaron McHale: comment I have, I suppose, on the drop down. 185 00:17:09.270 --> 00:17:26.059 Aaron McHale: I guess I would to me, and I you know to me the word tag, although I was gonna say, maybe we should. Maybe it should be, you know, heading level or something. But actually, I see that there is, as you point out, there's more than just h tags in there, there's span and dev so but then I do wonder like how. 186 00:17:26.550 --> 00:17:51.630 Aaron McHale: if, if the if this is meant to be for titles like, how appropriate is? Do you know, when? When would you ever want a title? Have being a span or div right, you know, it's to me it feels like we should be really careful about the scope of this, because then you then could you say, Well, there should be a tags in there, and we should have list tags, you know. Does this, then become a generic formatter that supports changing a tag so like. 187 00:17:51.980 --> 00:17:52.830 Aaron McHale: you know. 188 00:17:52.990 --> 00:17:56.796 Aaron McHale: I think the scope of this has to be really, really clear in that regard. 189 00:17:57.340 --> 00:18:07.958 Aaron McHale: so. But if it's and if it's then just heading levels. I would say we we should be clearer about that. And you know the dropdown would be like heading levels. And then you could say, heading one heading 2. That kind of thing. 190 00:18:08.590 --> 00:18:12.274 Aaron McHale: that's those are my thoughts. So again, I don't know what's already been said. So. 191 00:18:17.910 --> 00:18:19.330 benji: Yeah, I guess we we were 192 00:18:19.450 --> 00:18:25.860 benji: 1st discussing whether title is is the right label for this formatter. But but yeah, those are all good points. 193 00:18:25.970 --> 00:18:27.000 benji: I'm Ralph. 194 00:18:28.865 --> 00:18:29.935 Ralf Koller: Thank you. 195 00:18:32.190 --> 00:18:33.720 Ralf Koller: first.st I think 196 00:18:33.970 --> 00:18:35.840 Ralf Koller: it's worse to consider 197 00:18:37.360 --> 00:18:39.400 Ralf Koller: if span and diff is 198 00:18:39.500 --> 00:18:40.700 Ralf Koller: appropriate. 199 00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:45.180 Ralf Koller: providing the opportunity to add or to use those here. 200 00:18:45.320 --> 00:18:47.700 Ralf Koller: and maybe just reduce it to 201 00:18:48.340 --> 00:18:51.380 Ralf Koller: h. 1 to H. 6, like Aaron said. 202 00:18:51.670 --> 00:18:54.100 Ralf Koller: and one other point 203 00:18:54.210 --> 00:18:55.780 Ralf Koller: in regards of 204 00:18:56.320 --> 00:18:58.680 Ralf Koller: the point Matthew Radcliffe 205 00:18:59.270 --> 00:19:01.499 Ralf Koller: raised as well as we've. 206 00:19:02.610 --> 00:19:03.540 Ralf Koller: I think 207 00:19:04.710 --> 00:19:06.769 Ralf Koller: I've suggested last week 208 00:19:06.970 --> 00:19:09.040 Ralf Koller: to introduce some sort of 209 00:19:09.080 --> 00:19:10.530 Ralf Koller: automation. 210 00:19:10.660 --> 00:19:14.389 Ralf Koller: but I thought about it during the week, and I think 211 00:19:17.080 --> 00:19:18.140 Ralf Koller: no, it's 212 00:19:18.560 --> 00:19:20.250 Ralf Koller: not always 213 00:19:20.780 --> 00:19:23.840 Ralf Koller: possible to ensure that you have 214 00:19:24.494 --> 00:19:27.640 Ralf Koller: no gaps in between heading levels. 215 00:19:27.890 --> 00:19:30.030 Ralf Koller: But maybe 216 00:19:30.470 --> 00:19:38.759 Ralf Koller: I thought instead of making things automated, would it, and it's probably out of the scope for this issue. But as a follow up 217 00:19:40.070 --> 00:19:42.719 Ralf Koller: because you basically, you know which fields 218 00:19:42.750 --> 00:19:46.040 Ralf Koller: you have before and which fields you have after 219 00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:53.626 Ralf Koller: the plain text field. And therefore you know, basically the semantics for these on. If you have a 220 00:19:54.900 --> 00:20:00.870 Ralf Koller: or what you see is what you get field, then within it's a bit more complicated. But would it make sense, basically 221 00:20:01.210 --> 00:20:03.530 Ralf Koller: within that setting 222 00:20:03.600 --> 00:20:08.899 Ralf Koller: to have basically next to the tag? Or, however, it will be called 223 00:20:08.980 --> 00:20:11.340 Ralf Koller: select field. A. 224 00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:16.369 Ralf Koller: The previous field has the heading level, for example, H. 2, and 225 00:20:16.860 --> 00:20:21.680 Ralf Koller: the field afterwards has the heading level H. 3, for example. 226 00:20:30.620 --> 00:20:31.569 benji: Hey, Aaron! 227 00:20:33.990 --> 00:20:34.720 Aaron McHale: Thanks. 228 00:20:36.060 --> 00:20:38.600 Aaron McHale: yeah, I I sort of have 229 00:20:39.830 --> 00:20:46.879 Aaron McHale: that that idea. I'm not totally sure is is a good idea. I feel like we'd be adding a lot of complexity. 230 00:20:47.100 --> 00:20:57.550 Aaron McHale: And to give an example of a site I'm working on right now. Some of the heading levels and the content are actually coded into the templates. So 231 00:20:58.230 --> 00:20:59.325 Aaron McHale: you know we 232 00:21:00.030 --> 00:21:02.369 Aaron McHale: we would. We would want to 233 00:21:02.600 --> 00:21:05.620 Aaron McHale: be really clear about setting that. And I think 234 00:21:07.780 --> 00:21:11.109 Aaron McHale: I think part of me thinks from an accessibility perspective like that 235 00:21:11.770 --> 00:21:15.139 Aaron McHale: you especially like if you said there's a whizzy wig field above it. 236 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:36.359 Aaron McHale: Just say, for instance, it'd be really hard to know what the most important one is. So my feeling is my gut feeling is we? We should steer clear of any kind of like way of trying to automatically detect it. Because the site knows. You know, every site has a different content model. Every site has a different structure. We we really we can't know what that is. And we can't know what kind of nuances exist around that 237 00:21:38.139 --> 00:21:39.089 Aaron McHale: and 238 00:21:39.130 --> 00:21:41.730 Aaron McHale: hanging levels are things that people should. 239 00:21:42.220 --> 00:21:52.659 Aaron McHale: I, I would hope, are well educated on, although I know not everybody is. And so yeah, I'm not sure I would support any kind of like automated guessing of it. 240 00:21:58.340 --> 00:21:59.611 benji: Yeah, I I think. 241 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.259 benji: you know Ralph's idea of 242 00:22:03.750 --> 00:22:05.040 benji: havings. 243 00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:12.450 benji: Some way of of automating it is is worth exploring. I've I've thought about that, too. 244 00:22:13.042 --> 00:22:19.900 benji: And certainly you wouldn't want to make it too automatic. You don't want to give up control of heading levels. 245 00:22:20.050 --> 00:22:24.639 benji: but I think there could be some mechanism that's a little smarter 246 00:22:24.780 --> 00:22:27.700 benji: and sort of baked into the twig templates 247 00:22:27.980 --> 00:22:30.539 benji: than what we're currently using 248 00:22:30.650 --> 00:22:32.049 benji: like, if you could 249 00:22:33.810 --> 00:22:36.890 benji: have the option of passing to a twig template. 250 00:22:37.491 --> 00:22:44.230 benji: The the current heading level, and then let the twig template cite how to use that. 251 00:22:44.660 --> 00:22:47.914 benji: I I think that's worth exploring. But 252 00:22:50.430 --> 00:22:54.760 benji: But that would, of course, be a separate issue, not not something we would want to do here. 253 00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:06.240 benji: 1 1 more thing rot welf. Could could you open the link that that I posted? 254 00:23:07.027 --> 00:23:09.649 benji: I'd like to point out? There's 255 00:23:09.690 --> 00:23:13.480 benji: a module I like to use called fences. 256 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.880 benji: and I've I've added it to this site 257 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:18.560 benji: and it 258 00:23:21.150 --> 00:23:24.688 benji: allows the same sort of customization. And if you go to 259 00:23:25.130 --> 00:23:27.540 benji: admin structure, content types. 260 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:35.290 benji: and then look at the the article, content, type, and manage. 261 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:36.670 benji: display. 262 00:23:40.210 --> 00:23:44.270 benji: And if you look at the configuration, for example, of the body field. 263 00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:47.250 benji: or the settings, I should say 264 00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:49.910 benji: and expand the fences drop down. 265 00:23:59.060 --> 00:24:01.369 benji: so this gives a lot of options. 266 00:24:04.110 --> 00:24:07.694 benji: like. What one of the neat things you can do is 267 00:24:08.840 --> 00:24:12.249 benji: you know, create lists just by assigning 268 00:24:12.270 --> 00:24:14.509 benji: ul or or ol 269 00:24:14.590 --> 00:24:15.920 benji: to some 270 00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:19.790 benji: as the field rapper, and then 271 00:24:20.170 --> 00:24:22.600 benji: Li as the 272 00:24:23.580 --> 00:24:27.459 benji: as the element for the field. Item. 273 00:24:32.300 --> 00:24:34.230 benji: so. And 274 00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:41.520 benji: you know this, this module has been around for a while, and some thought has been put into the configuration form. 275 00:24:44.220 --> 00:24:45.650 benji: and we're 276 00:24:46.030 --> 00:24:47.829 benji: not going to 277 00:24:48.310 --> 00:24:50.670 benji: try to bring the whole module into core. 278 00:24:50.980 --> 00:24:53.620 benji: But but we can get some 279 00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:56.780 benji: inspiration from this. So, for example. 280 00:24:58.350 --> 00:24:59.910 benji: there's not a lot of 281 00:25:00.210 --> 00:25:07.489 benji: help. Text. There, you know, there isn't help text on every item. And if you compare that to what we've been looking at. 282 00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:11.359 benji: I think the help text on 283 00:25:13.260 --> 00:25:17.510 benji: on the tag is is unnecessary. It's also a little bit ungrammatical. But 284 00:25:18.208 --> 00:25:21.000 benji: do we need that help text, or 285 00:25:21.860 --> 00:25:24.509 benji: is it pretty clear what the 286 00:25:26.800 --> 00:25:28.510 benji: tag is going to do? 287 00:25:32.970 --> 00:25:36.359 benji: And, Ralph, do you want to reply to that? Or do you have something else you want to bring up. 288 00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:39.679 Ralf Koller: I would like just a brief 289 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:43.029 Ralf Koller: reply to the points before from Aaron 290 00:25:43.100 --> 00:25:44.240 Ralf Koller: and you. 291 00:25:44.370 --> 00:25:46.420 Ralf Koller: and then a brief 292 00:25:46.810 --> 00:25:49.081 Ralf Koller: comment in that regard as well. 293 00:25:49.990 --> 00:25:51.450 Ralf Koller: The suggestion 294 00:25:51.790 --> 00:25:52.830 Ralf Koller: I had 295 00:25:53.180 --> 00:25:57.149 Ralf Koller: was not anymore anything automated. It was mainly about 296 00:25:57.570 --> 00:25:58.770 Ralf Koller: providing some 297 00:25:59.110 --> 00:26:00.570 Ralf Koller: information 298 00:26:00.820 --> 00:26:03.730 Ralf Koller: based on which the user can decide 299 00:26:04.020 --> 00:26:06.610 Ralf Koller: and don't have to 300 00:26:07.540 --> 00:26:10.469 Ralf Koller: manually go into other fields to check 301 00:26:10.580 --> 00:26:21.519 Ralf Koller: what? And basically, the heading level is the last one that was used there, and that way to provide a sort of level of convenience and information, but but still 302 00:26:21.550 --> 00:26:27.910 Ralf Koller: no automation, and that was the idea. At 1st my initial idea was to automate it to a certain degree. But 303 00:26:27.930 --> 00:26:33.530 Ralf Koller: yeah, just to provide an information. And yeah, with the example, you've provided Aaron 304 00:26:34.199 --> 00:26:34.850 Ralf Koller: with 305 00:26:35.020 --> 00:26:38.279 Ralf Koller: baked into tweak templates. Yeah, it 306 00:26:38.380 --> 00:26:41.400 Ralf Koller: and automation would be even more problematic. Therefore 307 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:43.089 Ralf Koller: my thought was 308 00:26:43.370 --> 00:26:46.680 Ralf Koller: play. Simply just keep it informational here. 309 00:26:46.690 --> 00:26:49.029 Ralf Koller: and in regards here, I think. 310 00:26:49.520 --> 00:26:51.080 Ralf Koller: for the description. 311 00:26:54.730 --> 00:26:57.340 Ralf Koller: it would be still good where that 312 00:26:57.370 --> 00:26:59.050 Ralf Koller: age tag is used 313 00:26:59.340 --> 00:27:03.999 Ralf Koller: so, but the sentence could be stripped down 314 00:27:04.100 --> 00:27:10.469 Ralf Koller: and shortened from my perspective, but still it would be good to Bright at least a certain context. 315 00:27:15.910 --> 00:27:16.899 benji: Erin go ahead. 316 00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:19.569 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I guess if we're 317 00:27:19.930 --> 00:27:20.990 Aaron McHale: so. 318 00:27:21.260 --> 00:27:24.340 Aaron McHale: I guess depends. What? Like, if if we're saying that. 319 00:27:25.530 --> 00:27:27.538 Aaron McHale: okay, so what am I trying to say? 320 00:27:29.180 --> 00:27:32.569 Aaron McHale: Cause I'd said earlier about should the field 321 00:27:32.900 --> 00:27:38.309 Aaron McHale: have, should the dropdown contain more than just heading levels, and if it shouldn't. 322 00:27:38.930 --> 00:27:48.149 Aaron McHale: then we can like reword it to be more specific to heading levels and not just about the tag you select. And therefore that would then sort of impact the help text. So maybe 323 00:27:48.770 --> 00:27:59.400 Aaron McHale: maybe we should, you know for or decide on on, what our recommendation is, first, st in regards to like the naming of the dropdown and what's in it, and then that will help inform the help text. That's there. Perhaps. 324 00:28:00.650 --> 00:28:01.420 benji: Good bite. 325 00:28:06.090 --> 00:28:07.630 benji: Okay, so 326 00:28:07.950 --> 00:28:12.560 benji: should we include span and divs as options here, what 327 00:28:13.060 --> 00:28:15.919 benji: would be the use case of that. 328 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:24.599 Simo Hellsten: I think that's something that basically to have some meaningful use for that. 329 00:28:24.610 --> 00:28:33.029 Simo Hellsten: It would mean theming, anyways. And you can always, if you're doing theming at file system level, then you can always 330 00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:35.150 Simo Hellsten: add your own tags 331 00:28:35.790 --> 00:28:37.399 Simo Hellsten: to specific fields. 332 00:28:38.130 --> 00:28:44.180 Simo Hellsten: So the then it's kind of a loses its usefulness to have it in the graphical user interface. 333 00:28:45.310 --> 00:28:49.709 Simo Hellsten: because, as as it as it is, span and diva are not so useful. 334 00:28:50.390 --> 00:28:51.999 Simo Hellsten: So I think if 335 00:28:52.690 --> 00:28:54.999 Simo Hellsten: if we want to have something that 336 00:28:55.080 --> 00:28:57.809 Simo Hellsten: is you going to be used while coding? 337 00:28:58.010 --> 00:29:02.130 Simo Hellsten: Then I think it's better to use that template system 338 00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:04.319 Simo Hellsten: for adding the tags. 339 00:29:06.790 --> 00:29:07.840 Simo Hellsten: But 340 00:29:09.230 --> 00:29:10.300 Simo Hellsten: yeah. 341 00:29:10.658 --> 00:29:12.089 benji: From Aaron. Go ahead! 342 00:29:13.130 --> 00:29:16.409 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, but I think it's quite useful to have some sort of 343 00:29:16.760 --> 00:29:20.099 Simo Hellsten: system in the Us. Graphical user interface. 344 00:29:20.140 --> 00:29:25.649 Simo Hellsten: And actually, I had pretty much almost forgotten about fences, because I used to use use that in 345 00:29:25.670 --> 00:29:27.310 Simo Hellsten: 2,015. 346 00:29:28.470 --> 00:29:29.950 Simo Hellsten: So, but it's 347 00:29:29.990 --> 00:29:32.919 Simo Hellsten: yeah. But it's a bit complicated, maybe 348 00:29:33.310 --> 00:29:35.370 Simo Hellsten: here. But it's something that 349 00:29:35.640 --> 00:29:37.160 Simo Hellsten: could be thought of. 350 00:29:38.700 --> 00:29:45.259 benji: You. You also got a thumbs up from Ralph, and and the fences module. By the way, also lets you add Css. Classes. 351 00:29:45.510 --> 00:29:50.750 benji: So it's really helpful if you're using something like a bootstrap based theme 352 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:56.290 benji: that you can add your classes through the user interface like this. 353 00:30:00.820 --> 00:30:04.919 benji: But but again, I'm not advocating that that we 354 00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:07.210 benji: do everything that fences does. 355 00:30:12.090 --> 00:30:13.330 benji: So 356 00:30:13.540 --> 00:30:18.010 benji: if you want to use just a a span or a div, then 357 00:30:18.390 --> 00:30:19.619 benji: you know what? 358 00:30:19.860 --> 00:30:24.000 benji: What's what's the default formatter for plain text? And 359 00:30:24.330 --> 00:30:26.639 benji: would would you have any advantage 360 00:30:27.140 --> 00:30:28.490 benji: of using 361 00:30:28.570 --> 00:30:31.450 benji: this formatter with a span rather than 362 00:30:32.180 --> 00:30:33.989 benji: the default formatter? 363 00:30:58.360 --> 00:31:03.779 benji: Again. I'm trying to think what? What would be the use case of having something other than a header tag 364 00:31:04.220 --> 00:31:05.560 benji: for this field? 365 00:31:05.690 --> 00:31:10.199 benji: I guess it gives you the option to link to the content. 366 00:31:12.996 --> 00:31:17.910 benji: I suppose if you have some sort of deeply nested list 367 00:31:22.980 --> 00:31:27.700 benji: or or if you don't know how deeply nested. It's going to be 368 00:31:30.180 --> 00:31:31.440 benji: Then you 369 00:31:32.660 --> 00:31:35.139 benji: might not want to use any sort of 370 00:31:35.390 --> 00:31:36.420 benji: heading 371 00:31:36.730 --> 00:31:39.898 benji: tag, because then then you run the danger of 372 00:31:40.600 --> 00:31:43.259 benji: of breaking the heading structure. 373 00:31:49.310 --> 00:31:53.109 benji: Ralph, what's your comment? This, this is the default for new field. 374 00:31:53.110 --> 00:31:59.369 Ralf Koller: I've just created. Another text, plain text, Field, just to see what the default is 375 00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:02.229 Ralf Koller: on manage display for a new field 376 00:32:02.690 --> 00:32:06.719 Ralf Koller: with no modifications, because on the other one, we already did 377 00:32:06.890 --> 00:32:08.210 Ralf Koller: modifications. 378 00:32:09.110 --> 00:32:13.269 Ralf Koller: And I just created another one to see what's out of the box. 379 00:32:13.650 --> 00:32:15.619 Ralf Koller: the default per user. 380 00:32:15.630 --> 00:32:18.550 Ralf Koller: And it's basically unchecked link to the content. 381 00:32:18.730 --> 00:32:20.980 Ralf Koller: And as tag, it's h 2. 382 00:32:25.590 --> 00:32:29.012 benji: Right now, I assume that's the default, because 383 00:32:31.670 --> 00:32:35.360 benji: it's mimicking the the current. Hard-coded. 384 00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:37.672 benji: H 2 for 385 00:32:39.860 --> 00:32:41.770 benji: for for teasers. 386 00:32:45.070 --> 00:32:49.459 benji: right in in the, in the nodes, template in in drupal core. 387 00:32:50.316 --> 00:32:52.299 benji: It checks to see whether 388 00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:59.519 benji: it's the full content or not, and if it's the full content uses an h. 1 for the title, and otherwise it uses an H. 2. 389 00:33:02.280 --> 00:33:03.020 benji: So 390 00:33:05.040 --> 00:33:10.650 benji: so, by the way, a sort of more realistic use case of of this would would not be 391 00:33:10.670 --> 00:33:15.159 benji: editing the default displays, as you've been doing, but editing the Teaser display. 392 00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:15.740 Ralf Koller: Yep. 393 00:33:16.582 --> 00:33:17.910 benji: Aaron! Go ahead! 394 00:33:19.370 --> 00:33:22.650 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I agree with Seymour's part. I can't 395 00:33:23.090 --> 00:33:25.450 Aaron McHale: like I'm trying really hard and without 396 00:33:25.520 --> 00:33:32.630 Aaron McHale: like, I cannot think of a useful use for like spine or dev, because on their own they do like they have. They have no 397 00:33:32.930 --> 00:33:39.170 Aaron McHale: without going in and adding, templating. It is like no extra value to using those. And 398 00:33:39.770 --> 00:33:41.629 Aaron McHale: I feel like that's really a like 399 00:33:41.770 --> 00:33:46.475 Aaron McHale: the Feds. The module looks great. And I actually didn't. I actually now kind of want to use it. But like. 400 00:33:46.700 --> 00:33:47.350 benji: I think. 401 00:33:47.350 --> 00:33:54.039 Aaron McHale: That's really out of scope for what this issue is trying to do, and if we try and expand it to make span and title useful. 402 00:33:54.260 --> 00:33:58.280 Aaron McHale: This issue is never gonna get done. So 403 00:33:58.857 --> 00:34:01.360 Aaron McHale: I feel like, yeah, it's I, I 404 00:34:01.670 --> 00:34:14.250 Aaron McHale: I especially because the formatter is named title, which I think is a good like. I think it's better to have like a useful named formatter. That that's more specific because it helps people understand what it does so like 405 00:34:14.870 --> 00:34:19.390 Aaron McHale: feel like it. Just we just need heading levels like, that's my feeling. 406 00:34:24.219 --> 00:34:25.239 benji: So 407 00:34:27.419 --> 00:34:32.759 benji: I can imagine a site where the the teaser might be used. 408 00:34:33.429 --> 00:34:34.339 benji: as 409 00:34:36.499 --> 00:34:38.959 benji: you know, anywhere in the hierarchy. 410 00:34:39.669 --> 00:34:43.349 benji: and so would we have to create a display mode 411 00:34:43.489 --> 00:34:45.859 benji: instead of just a single teaser. 412 00:34:46.019 --> 00:34:47.529 benji: but have a 413 00:34:49.449 --> 00:34:55.509 benji: different display mode for each nesting level that it might be under and say, you know. 414 00:34:55.809 --> 00:35:01.029 benji: and make one of them an h, 3, and then the next one an h, 4, and the next one an h. 5, 415 00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:07.689 benji: and 416 00:35:09.789 --> 00:35:15.739 benji: and if we did that, we might want, you know, a sufficiently nested, deeply nested one 417 00:35:17.369 --> 00:35:19.349 benji: not to use 418 00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:22.489 benji: header tag, but use. 419 00:35:22.939 --> 00:35:27.739 benji: but still linked to the content. And I guess, linking to the content is the one thing 420 00:35:28.009 --> 00:35:30.619 benji: that you can't do with 421 00:35:30.979 --> 00:35:32.639 benji: plain text formatter. 422 00:35:33.289 --> 00:35:36.119 benji: Oh, and I see Thomas Howell has joined us. 423 00:35:37.279 --> 00:35:44.559 benji: Thomas. I I think you were here last week, and we discussed. We had a brief look at this issue, and we're now going deeper into it. 424 00:35:45.701 --> 00:35:48.159 benji: This this new title formatter. 425 00:35:50.469 --> 00:35:53.609 benji: So I guess I I kind of think that 426 00:35:53.909 --> 00:35:57.999 benji: there there might be use cases for something other than a header tag 427 00:36:08.209 --> 00:36:13.599 benji: where we we might want to link to the content. But we might not want to use 428 00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:15.129 benji: Header Tag. 429 00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:23.020 Aaron McHale: Think the only 430 00:36:23.100 --> 00:36:29.190 Aaron McHale: cases I can think of doing that would be like if you're displaying the content in of you know the individual fields 431 00:36:29.370 --> 00:36:31.200 Aaron McHale: in like using views. 432 00:36:31.940 --> 00:36:35.899 Aaron McHale: And in that case, then this doesn't matter, because you're using views. 433 00:36:37.250 --> 00:36:39.320 Aaron McHale: When you display the individual fields 434 00:36:40.090 --> 00:36:42.609 Aaron McHale: you you select, you know. 435 00:36:43.140 --> 00:36:49.000 Aaron McHale: Usually they just come out as plain text, anyway. Or you know you select the format you want, or whatever 436 00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:50.720 Aaron McHale: so. 437 00:36:57.350 --> 00:37:01.290 benji: I actually like to use display modes when I'm using views. 438 00:37:02.630 --> 00:37:04.170 benji: Thomas, go ahead. 439 00:37:05.486 --> 00:37:13.920 Thomas Howell: What about if it was just a kind of an abstract or something like that? And you wanted to be able to 440 00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:16.760 Thomas Howell: just inherently link it back to something. 441 00:37:19.170 --> 00:37:23.710 Thomas Howell: or a short, summary. Things like that, where you may not 442 00:37:24.100 --> 00:37:31.190 Thomas Howell: want to have to worry about linking the whole thing. But the idea is, people can click anywhere on the content, and it takes them to the full 443 00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:32.230 Thomas Howell: thing. 444 00:37:38.030 --> 00:37:44.458 benji: Yes, I I think you're saying the same thing that I am that there there might be use cases where you want to link to the content. But you 445 00:37:45.660 --> 00:37:46.550 benji: yes. 446 00:37:46.550 --> 00:37:57.529 Thomas Howell: I guess I was trying to give a concrete situation where I personally might do what you were saying. So I agree with you. I just was trying to give support for them for that position. 447 00:37:57.530 --> 00:37:58.170 benji: Okay? 448 00:37:58.540 --> 00:37:59.770 benji: And 449 00:38:00.040 --> 00:38:01.360 benji: actually. 450 00:38:02.215 --> 00:38:04.529 benji: now that I look at it. 451 00:38:04.540 --> 00:38:07.670 benji: the plain text format, or does give the option 452 00:38:08.270 --> 00:38:09.940 benji: to link to content. 453 00:38:12.170 --> 00:38:13.390 benji: So 454 00:38:14.490 --> 00:38:16.260 benji: that is not a reason. 455 00:38:23.620 --> 00:38:28.500 benji: so I'm afraid now that I've gotten someone to agree with me, and 456 00:38:28.620 --> 00:38:30.300 benji: I'm changing my mind. 457 00:38:32.140 --> 00:38:38.280 benji: So both the the plain text formatter, and the new title formatter 458 00:38:38.680 --> 00:38:41.270 benji: give the option to 459 00:38:41.550 --> 00:38:43.930 benji: link link to the content. 460 00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:48.310 benji: So if we can do that with plain text then. 461 00:38:49.380 --> 00:38:54.099 benji: But now, I'm thinking that we don't need to include span as an option 462 00:38:54.410 --> 00:38:56.040 benji: in the title formatter. 463 00:39:06.450 --> 00:39:09.749 benji: Yeah, Ralph, can you open up the options for that plain playing field? 464 00:39:16.540 --> 00:39:17.349 Ralf Koller: that's the 465 00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:18.210 Ralf Koller: oh. 466 00:39:19.940 --> 00:39:21.249 Ralf Koller: I had to reload. 467 00:39:23.540 --> 00:39:24.250 Ralf Koller: Yeah. 468 00:39:26.070 --> 00:39:28.470 benji: So you see, there, there is that option. 469 00:39:32.560 --> 00:39:33.720 benji: So 470 00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:39.429 benji: so if we don't want to use a header tag, we can use the plain formatter. 471 00:39:40.490 --> 00:39:42.480 benji: And if we do want to use 472 00:39:43.780 --> 00:39:47.910 benji: header tag, we we use the title formatter. Does that make sense? 473 00:39:51.380 --> 00:39:53.510 benji: I got a thumbs up from Ralph. 474 00:39:55.250 --> 00:40:01.519 Andrei Zvonkov: In the plain text formatter will by default wrap things in an into a div. Do we know. 475 00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:03.020 Ralf Koller: Oh, one second. 476 00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:09.050 Ralf Koller: just save and 477 00:40:09.210 --> 00:40:10.050 Ralf Koller: go 478 00:40:11.210 --> 00:40:12.270 Ralf Koller: content. 479 00:40:13.580 --> 00:40:14.690 Ralf Koller: And it's 480 00:40:17.290 --> 00:40:18.150 Ralf Koller: plain, plain. 481 00:40:18.150 --> 00:40:20.780 benji: So, Aaron, you can go next as soon as 482 00:40:21.700 --> 00:40:23.770 benji: Ralph finishes this little experiment. 483 00:40:36.310 --> 00:40:38.149 Ralf Koller: One sec. Oh, I forgot 484 00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:44.589 Ralf Koller: Link to content as well. 485 00:40:49.060 --> 00:40:51.549 benji: So without that it was just using a div. 486 00:41:06.310 --> 00:41:06.990 Ralf Koller: If 487 00:41:07.270 --> 00:41:08.320 Ralf Koller: and if 488 00:41:10.090 --> 00:41:13.369 Ralf Koller: and within the h tech a a tech. 489 00:41:16.090 --> 00:41:18.469 Andrei Zvonkov: Okay, yeah, thanks for testing that. 490 00:41:21.330 --> 00:41:22.110 benji: Aaron. 491 00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:24.420 Aaron McHale: I 492 00:41:24.630 --> 00:41:25.640 Aaron McHale: well 493 00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:28.999 Aaron McHale: have a thought that I don't even want to bring up. 494 00:41:31.258 --> 00:41:33.010 Aaron McHale: Worry! I'll open a whole can of worms. 495 00:41:34.370 --> 00:41:52.070 Aaron McHale: But now that I've said that I should probably say I know. I'm wondering if the plain text format should just have an option to set the tag. That was my! That was my can of worms. But I'm gonna not. I don't want to start that conversation. What I do wonder is if the if this new 496 00:41:53.631 --> 00:41:59.580 Aaron McHale: format, or should be called like heading, or something rather than title, because I feel like 497 00:42:00.700 --> 00:42:05.549 Aaron McHale: as we're seeing in theory, you could use it for any field, and if you just want it as a heading. 498 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:07.720 Aaron McHale: that's what you can do with this. 499 00:42:07.830 --> 00:42:11.560 Aaron McHale: So the fact that this can be used for the title. Field is almost like 500 00:42:11.970 --> 00:42:13.850 Aaron McHale: arbitrary in some ways. 501 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:26.040 benji: Yeah, I I always say that you should name something after what it does not. 502 00:42:26.240 --> 00:42:28.579 benji: what you plan to use it for. 503 00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:34.580 benji: So if if this thing is, provides the header tags, then it 504 00:42:34.740 --> 00:42:38.360 benji: I would rather name header rather than name it title, because 505 00:42:39.370 --> 00:42:48.899 benji: because I expect to use it for the title field. But I was actually having exactly the same thought that if the only difference between this and the plain text formatter 506 00:42:49.300 --> 00:42:50.560 benji: is that 507 00:42:51.200 --> 00:43:01.150 benji: it allows different tags. Then why not add an option to the plain text formatter? And then we don't have to worry about how to name it. 508 00:43:02.630 --> 00:43:03.510 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 509 00:43:03.620 --> 00:43:07.429 Aaron McHale: could we? Maybe just for our own sanity? Could we maybe take a look at the 510 00:43:08.331 --> 00:43:11.979 Aaron McHale: some of the other available formatters, cause. I can't remember what 511 00:43:12.420 --> 00:43:15.740 Aaron McHale: some of the other ones that you could use. Just so we 512 00:43:16.610 --> 00:43:17.900 Aaron McHale: we know 513 00:43:18.150 --> 00:43:20.720 Aaron McHale: what we're potentially getting into here. 514 00:43:21.090 --> 00:43:27.559 benji: So in drupal core, I think the only available formatter for plain text is the plain text formatter. 515 00:43:32.510 --> 00:43:36.310 Aaron McHale: And I guess if it's like a a long text field you've got like things like. 516 00:43:36.340 --> 00:43:38.860 Aaron McHale: what have you got like you've got formatted. 517 00:43:38.930 --> 00:43:42.969 Aaron McHale: you got like with summary without summary. Is that right? There's like. 518 00:43:48.220 --> 00:43:50.629 Aaron McHale: yeah trimmed summary trimmed. 519 00:43:51.130 --> 00:43:57.030 Aaron McHale: See? There's always, I guess this is over the question, because you could say, Well, why, why don't we just have one formatter for 520 00:43:58.020 --> 00:44:03.029 Aaron McHale: for you know, for my text, and and that is just the option. There's just an option. Right? 521 00:44:03.500 --> 00:44:04.770 Aaron McHale: There's always this like 522 00:44:05.140 --> 00:44:08.760 Aaron McHale: question of like, where does what? When does that make sense to? 523 00:44:23.670 --> 00:44:28.219 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I suppose with a link field, there's a link formatter. And you know. 524 00:44:40.190 --> 00:44:41.620 benji: So Thomas, go ahead. 525 00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:50.579 Thomas Howell: I apologize if this has already been answered, but so with the title we can 526 00:44:50.640 --> 00:44:52.710 Thomas Howell: choose the 527 00:44:53.260 --> 00:44:54.700 Thomas Howell: header tags. 528 00:44:56.270 --> 00:45:05.719 Thomas Howell: Can that list be controlled somewhere so, or like this is, I guess. No, this is the control you're picking only one. 529 00:45:05.740 --> 00:45:07.699 Thomas Howell: And then you're saying that 530 00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:12.339 Thomas Howell: title does that. So you can't give people options, for 531 00:45:12.510 --> 00:45:19.840 Thomas Howell: they could do h. 1 or H. 2 if they wanted to. Either field gets one option, that's it, and it's called title. 532 00:45:20.030 --> 00:45:21.130 Thomas Howell: Is that correct? 533 00:45:31.420 --> 00:45:33.920 benji: I I guess I'm not quite sure what you're asking. 534 00:45:34.310 --> 00:45:35.080 Thomas Howell: So. 535 00:45:36.210 --> 00:45:37.290 Thomas Howell: I, 536 00:45:37.350 --> 00:45:47.039 Thomas Howell: if I have a plain text field. And sometimes I want to use the plain text field like, because I do silly things in 537 00:45:47.240 --> 00:46:03.171 Thomas Howell: other areas. I'm thinking of R. Markdown, where sometimes I'll decide. I want to make a particular thing in in age 2 and sometimes H. 3, because it builds menus off of my ages off of my header tags and 538 00:46:03.720 --> 00:46:05.330 Thomas Howell: I didn't know if 539 00:46:05.520 --> 00:46:15.650 Thomas Howell: that's changed like it looks like it's fixed, and I just wanted to confirm that. So we're creating a format that picks one specific 540 00:46:15.910 --> 00:46:33.469 Thomas Howell: header tag, and it applies that and calls it title. So to the point you made just a little bit ago about calling something by what it does, not by how you want to use it. I'm just trying to confirm that if I'm creating this playing field, I pick one of these options. 541 00:46:33.470 --> 00:46:49.550 Thomas Howell: That is the only option that someone who's creating content will ever have. They won't even know that there was a choice. So if it were set to be div, it'd be set to be div, and they would just have to accept that plain text can be kind of normal or div. 542 00:46:51.460 --> 00:46:53.639 benji: Right. And and the one thing I would add to that 543 00:46:53.670 --> 00:46:55.809 benji: is that the site builder 544 00:46:56.718 --> 00:46:59.310 benji: might have several different 545 00:46:59.820 --> 00:47:02.890 benji: display modes for the content type. 546 00:47:02.910 --> 00:47:07.120 benji: and each one could choose a different heading level. 547 00:47:07.390 --> 00:47:12.500 benji: And then, when those display modes are used. 548 00:47:13.040 --> 00:47:16.610 benji: whichever display most is used determines which 549 00:47:17.630 --> 00:47:22.270 benji: which configuration of the formatter is used, so it determines which 550 00:47:22.350 --> 00:47:23.820 benji: heading level to use. 551 00:47:24.150 --> 00:47:33.799 Thomas Howell: At risk of sounding like a yes person. I'm going to agree that I'm not fond of calling this title in this context because of 552 00:47:33.990 --> 00:47:39.229 Thomas Howell: how like, with those display modes, with how complex we could potentially use this 553 00:47:39.737 --> 00:47:50.070 Thomas Howell: I think it would be better to call it something more like header tag, or something that made it more clear how people were using this 554 00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:53.110 Thomas Howell: like what it did. So I agree with you. 555 00:47:53.590 --> 00:47:54.280 benji: Okay. 556 00:47:58.590 --> 00:47:59.550 benji: So 557 00:48:00.380 --> 00:48:03.519 benji: I'd like to take a vote on whether 558 00:48:03.550 --> 00:48:04.620 benji: to 559 00:48:04.910 --> 00:48:09.799 benji: improve the existing formatter instead of adding anyone but Aaron, you want to say something first.st 560 00:48:10.130 --> 00:48:12.269 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I guess it's just on the overall 561 00:48:12.450 --> 00:48:15.260 Aaron McHale: thought that you're kind of leading to vote on 562 00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:24.129 Aaron McHale: one of our sort of tests, for when we should add something to court or something different is like, can this be used as a framework for building on top of? And so 563 00:48:24.560 --> 00:48:25.770 Aaron McHale: I think 564 00:48:25.820 --> 00:48:38.370 Aaron McHale: I was trying to think an example of why we would like make this a separate new formatter, and the thing I can come up with there's not many. But I come up with one is that potentially a control module could say. 565 00:48:38.970 --> 00:49:08.460 Aaron McHale: extend the header could add an additional option to here to say, provide like an anchor link or something. So you know how sometimes headings can be anchor links. That you can then click to, and the browser goes to that heading. So it it potentially opens up a small ecosystem of modules that could, you know, added a use this as a way to add additional functionality, and by making this a format, or we just it on its own, we do make it easier for that to happen. I think. So. 566 00:49:08.956 --> 00:49:10.739 Aaron McHale: My vote would be to 567 00:49:11.210 --> 00:49:24.630 Aaron McHale: for that reason, I guess, is keep as one, and I suppose if in the future we decide that the you know, dripple decides to expand this to be plain text and have tags. Then then that could always be migrated back in to be, you know, 568 00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:26.570 Aaron McHale: part of clean text. 569 00:49:27.080 --> 00:49:33.320 benji: But I don't see why it's easier to expand this new formatter that we're adding, instead of expanding 570 00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:36.680 benji: the plain text formatter, that we're improving. 571 00:49:38.610 --> 00:49:39.979 Aaron McHale: I guess it's 572 00:49:41.790 --> 00:49:56.649 Aaron McHale: suppose it's not any easier or harder. I was trying to think of a reason why you might. Why, we might add, add this one but you're right. I suppose you could. A module could add add anchor links option to to the regular one. 573 00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:01.030 Aaron McHale: Maybe it just makes it easier for the user to 574 00:50:01.260 --> 00:50:04.980 Aaron McHale: see that this is an option. Maybe maybe it's 575 00:50:05.160 --> 00:50:07.779 Aaron McHale: like, you know, configuration is a bit 576 00:50:08.110 --> 00:50:09.070 Aaron McHale: cleaner. 577 00:50:09.770 --> 00:50:12.099 Aaron McHale: like configuration might only have. 578 00:50:13.060 --> 00:50:31.044 Aaron McHale: you know. This option would then only be added on the configuration, for this option only be there for fields which are set as headers like. You could more easily see in your configuration where? Okay, these fields are headers, you know. That's potentially an advantage. I guess I feel like I'm grasping at straws here. So. 579 00:50:32.378 --> 00:50:34.411 benji: Ralph, Ralph, can you close that? 580 00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:49.430 benji: So we we do have in the summary of of the format or settings that it's displayed as an H. 2. So you don't need to open up the settings to see that information. 581 00:50:49.870 --> 00:50:51.850 benji: Thomas, did you want to add something. 582 00:50:53.270 --> 00:51:01.479 Thomas Howell: Just that through the course of talking through things I'm I'm my vote is going to be to to support, just enhancing the 583 00:51:01.580 --> 00:51:04.289 Thomas Howell: the regular formatter. 584 00:51:04.390 --> 00:51:07.630 Thomas Howell: That's it. Like I was going to say more, and 585 00:51:07.680 --> 00:51:10.630 Thomas Howell: it would be a long-winded way to say that. Okay. 586 00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:11.560 benji: Ralph. 587 00:51:12.810 --> 00:51:20.380 Ralf Koller: Just a brief edition, because I just noticed the form of those 2 588 00:51:20.980 --> 00:51:29.549 Ralf Koller: statements should be in line at the moment. It's linked to the content and display. SH. 2. Shouldn't it be displayed as H. 2. 589 00:51:31.220 --> 00:51:33.169 benji: Right or link to the content. 590 00:51:33.540 --> 00:51:37.850 benji: Yeah, they yes, they should be consistent, totally agree, Andre. 591 00:51:40.350 --> 00:51:44.190 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, just one thing, maybe somewhat unrelated. 592 00:51:45.970 --> 00:51:50.599 Andrei Zvonkov: I mean, yes, I I would also support the simplification or 593 00:51:50.610 --> 00:52:00.829 Andrei Zvonkov: just combining things into one formatter, but I noticed so if we're keeping the all the H 2, so I mean H options 594 00:52:00.980 --> 00:52:02.720 Andrei Zvonkov: and div and span 595 00:52:03.180 --> 00:52:06.779 Andrei Zvonkov: with a P. Tag would potentially 596 00:52:07.410 --> 00:52:15.630 Andrei Zvonkov: be needed there as well. That's a fairly common thing, too, but I'm not sure. Maybe I'm kind of thinking I'm not like I'm 597 00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:20.970 Andrei Zvonkov: I'm not sure of the specific use case, but I am 598 00:52:22.740 --> 00:52:26.100 Andrei Zvonkov: that maybe that Ptac would be useful in that list as well. 599 00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:32.039 benji: Yeah, it. It certainly could be 600 00:52:32.470 --> 00:52:41.630 Andrei Zvonkov: But my vote would also be to just combine things in and simplify things in terms of not using 2 different formatters for this, for these things. 601 00:52:42.640 --> 00:52:50.139 benji: And Aaron is saying in the in the chat all all sorts of other tags we might use like pre code block quote. 602 00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:55.119 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, then we're going to that fancy category fancis module. 603 00:52:55.120 --> 00:53:04.063 Aaron McHale: To be clear that it's the, etc. Is not meant to be a tag. I was just 604 00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:11.640 Aaron McHale: that didn't occur until after it's in a message that there, typically there is no, etc. Tag, just for the record. 605 00:53:14.970 --> 00:53:17.920 benji: Okay, anything else. Before we, we take a vote. 606 00:53:21.690 --> 00:53:22.615 benji: Okay? 607 00:53:23.770 --> 00:53:27.209 benji: who thinks that, as in the current version 608 00:53:27.220 --> 00:53:28.939 benji: of the issue. 609 00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:31.019 benji: we should have a new formatter. 610 00:53:35.660 --> 00:53:37.820 benji: I'm not seeing any, replies. 611 00:53:38.413 --> 00:53:42.419 benji: Who thinks that we should be enhancing the existing plain text formatter. 612 00:53:42.910 --> 00:53:49.239 benji: Get a thumbs up from Ralph. And okay, I I agree, too. I I have to scroll a little bit. Yes. 613 00:53:49.410 --> 00:53:50.810 benji: we are unanimous. 614 00:53:51.060 --> 00:53:52.180 benji: Okay. 615 00:53:53.630 --> 00:53:54.500 benji: and 616 00:53:54.710 --> 00:53:56.949 benji: that means we don't have to worry about what 617 00:53:56.980 --> 00:54:00.029 benji: to call it, whether to call it title or headers. 618 00:54:00.030 --> 00:54:00.930 Aaron McHale: Guys. 619 00:54:03.150 --> 00:54:04.340 benji: so then. 620 00:54:05.230 --> 00:54:09.733 Aaron McHale: Just for the record. I think you've all effectively convinced me otherwise. So 621 00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:26.486 Aaron McHale: cause also, in in the spirit of this, like, potentially, this opens up for things like, say, we did add, like, you know, block quote, you could make it possible, like a contra, maybe either control, module or encore, we could make it possible to add classes or add, you know, bring more of what fences doesn't. So 622 00:54:27.870 --> 00:54:32.199 Aaron McHale: yeah, that actually sounds like a better way to build an ecosystem around this. 623 00:54:36.190 --> 00:54:38.379 benji: yeah. Should should we make it 624 00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:41.950 benji: a recommendation for the current issue 625 00:54:42.350 --> 00:54:44.910 benji: that it provides some way 626 00:54:45.020 --> 00:54:47.070 benji: to extend 627 00:54:48.260 --> 00:54:49.540 benji: the options. 628 00:54:53.140 --> 00:54:55.020 Aaron McHale: Feels like a follow up, because 629 00:54:55.330 --> 00:54:57.858 Aaron McHale: otherwise it's never gonna get done. 630 00:54:58.690 --> 00:54:59.340 Aaron McHale: That's. 631 00:54:59.340 --> 00:55:01.009 benji: Ralph, Ralph agrees with that. 632 00:55:09.230 --> 00:55:10.650 benji: so 633 00:55:17.660 --> 00:55:19.250 benji: I guess the 634 00:55:19.470 --> 00:55:23.054 benji: only remaining questions are, 635 00:55:24.460 --> 00:55:28.569 benji: the label and description, or help text 636 00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:31.450 benji: for the new dropdown list 637 00:55:39.700 --> 00:55:43.080 benji: and I guess I was suggesting that the 638 00:55:43.270 --> 00:55:46.580 benji: description or the help text isn't really needed at all. 639 00:55:47.260 --> 00:55:49.860 benji: although I think there was some pushback 640 00:55:50.050 --> 00:55:50.910 benji: for that. 641 00:55:53.585 --> 00:55:56.525 benji: Again looking at fences. 642 00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:04.980 benji: it has field tag and 643 00:56:05.730 --> 00:56:09.099 benji: field items, wrapper, tag and field item, tag 644 00:56:09.550 --> 00:56:11.360 benji: and label tag 645 00:56:12.980 --> 00:56:18.640 benji: But since we're not going with that level of complexity, we would presumably just have tag. 646 00:56:19.854 --> 00:56:20.740 benji: Aaron. 647 00:56:22.060 --> 00:56:30.290 Aaron McHale: Since it's such a simple form. I kind of already like the display as text that shows on the summary. 648 00:56:30.810 --> 00:56:34.049 Aaron McHale: because it, the way it reads is like display as H. 2, 649 00:56:34.310 --> 00:56:36.909 Aaron McHale: or display as P. And I think if you. 650 00:56:37.050 --> 00:56:39.639 Aaron McHale: if you know, you need that, you understand like 651 00:56:40.120 --> 00:56:47.519 Aaron McHale: what that means, and so I feel like for the dropdown. To also say, display as to me seems quite intuitive, I guess. 652 00:56:48.910 --> 00:56:49.670 benji: Okay. 653 00:56:54.780 --> 00:56:55.540 benji: Ralph. 654 00:56:56.233 --> 00:56:58.289 Ralf Koller: Just one question. Should it be then 655 00:56:58.390 --> 00:57:01.109 Ralf Koller: displayed as or displayed as 656 00:57:01.410 --> 00:57:04.710 Ralf Koller: just in regards of the consistency with the other? With the other 657 00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:06.160 Ralf Koller: statement, there. 658 00:57:11.590 --> 00:57:19.270 benji: Right. We certainly could make the the label on the form display as, and then make the summary displayed as 659 00:57:27.620 --> 00:57:29.500 Aaron McHale: Yeah, because link to content 660 00:57:30.010 --> 00:57:36.609 Aaron McHale: is here. But in the summary it says link to to content, so probably should just follow that pattern. 661 00:57:38.770 --> 00:57:41.599 benji: And we got a thumbs up from Simo on that as well. 662 00:57:48.980 --> 00:57:54.000 benji: so does anyone prefer something like tag rather than display as 663 00:57:54.260 --> 00:57:59.449 benji: or I guess I'm asking for another vote, the the 2 options being display as or tag. 664 00:57:59.530 --> 00:58:01.120 benji: Does anyone prefer tag? 665 00:58:04.670 --> 00:58:08.479 benji: I don't feel strongly, and who prefers display as 666 00:58:12.500 --> 00:58:15.139 benji: getting a couple of thumbs up. 3. 667 00:58:16.250 --> 00:58:17.100 benji: Okay. 668 00:58:22.530 --> 00:58:26.339 benji: so let's go with display as do we need help, text 669 00:58:26.670 --> 00:58:27.830 benji: or description. 670 00:58:30.240 --> 00:58:32.510 Ralf Koller: I've removed it, just to illustrate. 671 00:58:33.496 --> 00:58:34.690 benji: Thanks. Thomas. 672 00:58:35.530 --> 00:58:40.679 Thomas Howell: So the one question I have is, if our recommendation is to roll this into 673 00:58:40.950 --> 00:58:44.319 Thomas Howell: the enhancing, the the existing, like 674 00:58:46.400 --> 00:58:47.210 Thomas Howell: my gosh. 675 00:58:48.270 --> 00:58:48.940 benji: Formatter. 676 00:58:49.210 --> 00:58:50.140 Thomas Howell: Formatter. 677 00:58:51.350 --> 00:59:08.010 Thomas Howell: how? What is it? How do we make certain? It's very clear what the default state is. So I'm just thinking what happens if someone has something there, and they switch it to h 2, and it was a mistake, and they leave. And another 678 00:59:08.508 --> 00:59:13.689 Thomas Howell: admin comes in like, is there any way to give them a clear 679 00:59:13.790 --> 00:59:18.950 Thomas Howell: indicator? What the default state is for this 680 00:59:19.030 --> 00:59:21.920 Thomas Howell: is that something that's important to have? In the 1st place. 681 00:59:26.980 --> 00:59:28.200 benji: But I guess 682 00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:32.400 benji: probably the default should be at the top of the list. 683 00:59:34.400 --> 00:59:38.216 benji: So since we are extending 684 00:59:40.120 --> 00:59:44.810 benji: the plain text format, or whatever that uses by default. 685 00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:46.959 benji: which I think is div 686 00:59:48.660 --> 00:59:52.780 benji: should be the default option. And at the top of list. 687 00:59:58.390 --> 01:00:00.410 benji: yeah, I got a thumbs up from Thomas. 688 01:00:06.190 --> 01:00:09.209 benji: and again Up Arrow from Aaron. 689 01:00:10.660 --> 01:00:11.940 benji: Ralph just. 690 01:00:12.530 --> 01:00:17.909 Ralf Koller: And just one thought because I was a bit occupied while you were voting 691 01:00:19.450 --> 01:00:23.019 Ralf Koller: changing things in the dev tools. But I wonder. 692 01:00:23.180 --> 01:00:24.970 Ralf Koller: because this play. 693 01:00:25.140 --> 01:00:30.119 Ralf Koller: as or just the display verb, is sort of 694 01:00:31.090 --> 01:00:33.897 Ralf Koller: not sure wouldn't be 695 01:00:36.490 --> 01:00:38.420 Ralf Koller: rep. Instead of that. 696 01:00:38.700 --> 01:00:40.220 Ralf Koller: be clearer. 697 01:00:41.170 --> 01:00:46.840 Ralf Koller: cause that is what's actually doing, you wrap basically that text within that tag. 698 01:00:52.375 --> 01:00:53.260 benji: Thomas. 699 01:00:54.140 --> 01:00:58.430 Thomas Howell: My concern is that I don't know that a lot of people would know 700 01:00:58.680 --> 01:01:01.457 Thomas Howell: off the bat what that means. 701 01:01:02.910 --> 01:01:04.649 Thomas Howell: Like I 702 01:01:04.660 --> 01:01:09.760 Thomas Howell: I understand what rap means, but it feels more technical. But. 703 01:01:13.640 --> 01:01:14.330 benji: Aaron. 704 01:01:15.230 --> 01:01:32.479 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I work a lot with content designers. And we, you know, in user experience people, when we talk about when we're setting out like content structures we talk about, you know, how do we want this to display what we want to display as so when they're talking about, like, you know, display as a heading or something. That's a really natural way of talking about it. And I feel like 705 01:01:32.990 --> 01:01:40.472 Aaron McHale: when we say when you say like display is H. 2. And you go look at it. You say, okay, this displays as an H 2 like that's a really natural way of thinking about it. 706 01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:43.160 Aaron McHale: And I agree with what Thomas said. 707 01:01:44.120 --> 01:01:44.860 Aaron McHale: okay. 708 01:01:45.500 --> 01:01:48.299 benji: Ralph, do you still want to push back, or are you getting a thumbs up? 709 01:01:55.100 --> 01:01:56.250 benji: And 710 01:01:56.650 --> 01:02:03.620 benji: and Ralph used devtools to remove the help text, does anyone want to bring it back? 711 01:02:09.010 --> 01:02:11.749 benji: And the general principle is that if you're 712 01:02:11.800 --> 01:02:14.599 benji: labels are well chosen. 713 01:02:14.850 --> 01:02:18.560 benji: you mostly don't need help. Text. And I think that applies here. 714 01:02:20.060 --> 01:02:22.460 benji: Aaron is giving a down arrow. 715 01:02:22.850 --> 01:02:26.019 benji: Thomas is getting a thumbs up. This is a little ambiguous. 716 01:02:26.450 --> 01:02:29.359 benji: Does does anyone want to bring it back. 717 01:02:29.830 --> 01:02:30.860 Aaron McHale: No. 718 01:02:31.190 --> 01:02:32.240 benji: Oh, okay. 719 01:02:33.190 --> 01:02:36.699 benji: okay, we are. Oh, we are 1 min away. 720 01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:41.270 benji: one thing we we should 721 01:02:42.465 --> 01:02:46.340 benji: do is review the parent issue. 722 01:02:46.420 --> 01:02:53.539 benji: and there might be some reason why they've explicitly decided to have a new formatter rather than extend 723 01:02:53.640 --> 01:02:56.259 benji: plain text format or so someone should 724 01:02:56.490 --> 01:02:59.060 benji: take that on before leaving a comment. 725 01:03:02.120 --> 01:03:03.470 benji: So 726 01:03:05.251 --> 01:03:08.869 benji: would anyone like to do that work and then leave the comments? 727 01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:11.469 benji: And if not, I'm I'm willing to do that. 728 01:03:17.540 --> 01:03:20.470 benji: Okay, I will, I will leave the comment. 729 01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:25.799 benji: Thanks all. I think this has been productive. We came up with 730 01:03:26.110 --> 01:03:30.889 benji: a very simple idea to make the form a little simpler, which is a good thing. 731 01:03:31.700 --> 01:03:32.270 benji: So 732 01:03:34.150 --> 01:03:36.770 benji: hope you can make it next week. Thanks for coming. 733 01:03:37.010 --> 01:03:38.190 Aaron McHale: Thanks, bye. 734 01:03:38.190 --> 01:03:39.110 Ralf Koller: Thank you. Good weekend. 735 01:03:39.110 --> 01:03:40.759 Thomas Howell: You have a great weekend. 736 01:03:41.290 --> 01:03:42.029 Simo Hellsten: Last weekend.