WEBVTT 125 00:11:26.130 --> 00:11:30.920 benji: welcome. This is the drupal usability meeting for September 20, th 2024. 126 00:11:31.150 --> 00:11:34.479 benji: I'm Benji Fisher, sharing my screen and moderating. 127 00:11:34.750 --> 00:11:38.569 benji: And also here are Ralph Kohler, Aaron Mchale 128 00:11:38.650 --> 00:11:44.739 benji: Andre Svankov. Anal goal offer shall. And Simo Helstone. 129 00:11:45.700 --> 00:11:50.230 benji: So someone suggested that we look at this issue. It is number 130 00:11:50.520 --> 00:11:53.989 benji: 3, 3, 2, 0 6, 8, 9. 131 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:58.870 benji: Allow Webp quality to be configurable in Gd 2 132 00:11:58.970 --> 00:12:02.010 benji: image manipulation toolkit settings. 133 00:12:05.790 --> 00:12:09.109 benji: so I haven't looked at this issue before. 134 00:12:14.010 --> 00:12:21.050 benji: but I can probably follow these instructions. Here I've I've set up the site. 135 00:12:22.610 --> 00:12:25.830 benji: I'll give you the link in zoom chat. 136 00:12:26.650 --> 00:12:32.340 benji: and Ralph has also shared a site. Ralph, is that site where you've applied the patch. 137 00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:32.930 Ralf Koller: Yep. 138 00:12:37.562 --> 00:12:39.330 benji: So maybe I will 139 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:41.860 benji: try on your side. 140 00:12:41.860 --> 00:12:44.109 Ralf Koller: I've also added the path to the 141 00:12:45.190 --> 00:12:46.489 Ralf Koller: H in question. 142 00:12:57.130 --> 00:12:58.270 benji: Go to. 143 00:12:59.410 --> 00:13:01.409 Ralf Koller: And conflict. Media image toolkit. 144 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.389 Ralf Koller: It's just one 145 00:13:23.230 --> 00:13:30.210 Ralf Koller: onenote. The default setting is the lossless web p checkbox is unchecked. 146 00:13:31.095 --> 00:13:34.850 Ralf Koller: I just saved it, and with lossless webp before. So. 147 00:15:32.180 --> 00:15:33.830 Ralf Koller: Benji, are you talking again? 148 00:15:41.180 --> 00:15:42.429 Ralf Koller: What's your audio? 149 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:43.540 Ralf Koller: It's cool 150 00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:45.800 Ralf Koller: in case. 151 00:17:36.320 --> 00:17:37.939 benji: Testing, 1, 2, 3. 152 00:17:37.940 --> 00:17:39.610 Ralf Koller: Yep, that is working. 153 00:17:40.170 --> 00:17:40.940 benji: All right. 154 00:17:42.154 --> 00:17:45.089 benji: I'm just rejoined from 155 00:17:45.540 --> 00:17:46.850 benji: my laptop. 156 00:17:49.710 --> 00:17:50.210 benji: And so. 157 00:17:50.210 --> 00:17:51.410 Ralf Koller: We'll link again. 158 00:17:51.410 --> 00:17:52.310 benji: Thank you. 159 00:17:57.250 --> 00:18:00.290 benji: I guess I'll share my screen. 160 00:18:28.470 --> 00:18:29.680 benji: Go 161 00:18:33.910 --> 00:18:36.379 benji: alright. You see me logging into 162 00:18:36.550 --> 00:18:37.680 benji: Ralph's side. 163 00:18:37.820 --> 00:18:38.580 benji: Okay. 164 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:43.639 Ralf Koller: And the link to your own site is the following. 165 00:18:45.470 --> 00:18:46.210 Ralf Koller: you. 166 00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:57.600 benji: It's always hard to find 167 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.210 benji: zoom chat 168 00:19:00.830 --> 00:19:02.330 benji: when you're sharing. 169 00:19:20.710 --> 00:19:24.279 benji: Zoom is pretty amazing, but it does have some annoying features. 170 00:19:32.210 --> 00:19:40.100 benji: So I was asking, Is there anyone on the meeting who is not familiar with the Admin screen we've been looking at 171 00:19:47.120 --> 00:19:47.800 benji: and like. 172 00:19:48.140 --> 00:19:50.000 benji: don't see anyone speaking up. 173 00:19:50.290 --> 00:19:51.659 benji: Okay? So 174 00:19:53.520 --> 00:19:54.300 benji: where 175 00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:00.100 benji: adding this configuration option for how the image toolkit 176 00:20:00.430 --> 00:20:03.320 benji: will handle web key images. 177 00:20:08.330 --> 00:20:09.460 benji: it 178 00:20:09.630 --> 00:20:16.839 benji: seems a little odd, this help text. This will override the Webp quality settings below. 179 00:20:18.010 --> 00:20:22.960 benji: I guess, Ralph, you said the default was to be unchecked. 180 00:20:23.230 --> 00:20:23.910 Ralf Koller: Yes. 181 00:20:25.735 --> 00:20:30.280 benji: So by default, you you see the Webp quality 182 00:20:31.770 --> 00:20:35.050 benji: option. And presumably this help text is 183 00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:39.219 benji: nearly identical to the help text for Jpeg quality. 184 00:20:42.890 --> 00:20:44.070 benji: but it's 185 00:20:44.380 --> 00:20:48.790 benji: a little odd that once you check this that goes away. 186 00:20:49.520 --> 00:20:52.600 benji: And this bit of help text seems 187 00:20:53.360 --> 00:20:58.450 benji: confusing. Is is that what the usability concern is, or is there something else. 188 00:20:59.040 --> 00:21:00.929 Simo Hellsten: There are quite a few. 189 00:21:01.290 --> 00:21:02.240 benji: Okay. 190 00:21:03.457 --> 00:21:05.890 benji: Where? Where do you want to start? 191 00:21:08.990 --> 00:21:09.860 Simo Hellsten: so 192 00:21:12.230 --> 00:21:18.790 Simo Hellsten: well. One thing is that I don't know actually how how it does by default, or is the default? 193 00:21:20.990 --> 00:21:23.330 Simo Hellsten: currently in the core. That 194 00:21:23.420 --> 00:21:27.090 Simo Hellsten: web PE is fixed to 75% 195 00:21:27.750 --> 00:21:29.830 Simo Hellsten: loss equality. 196 00:21:31.310 --> 00:21:32.570 Simo Hellsten: Does somebody know. 197 00:21:34.810 --> 00:21:36.570 Ralf Koller: I haven't changed anything. 198 00:21:37.560 --> 00:21:42.400 Ralf Koller: With the shape equality that is the default. I only check the lossless mappy. 199 00:21:42.770 --> 00:21:43.530 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 200 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:48.339 Simo Hellsten: So I'm I'm thinking, if if it's if Web P is by default. 201 00:21:48.470 --> 00:21:50.000 Simo Hellsten: Lossy. 202 00:21:50.540 --> 00:21:51.900 Simo Hellsten: and then 203 00:21:53.700 --> 00:21:55.530 Simo Hellsten: it can't be changed. 204 00:21:55.790 --> 00:21:56.656 Simo Hellsten: But we 205 00:21:57.130 --> 00:22:00.050 Simo Hellsten: so I I would have expected there that 206 00:22:00.230 --> 00:22:02.879 Simo Hellsten: it wouldn't be fixed to be the same 207 00:22:03.040 --> 00:22:08.799 Simo Hellsten: quality as the default. Jpeg. Quality. But anyways, one thing is that just. 208 00:22:09.510 --> 00:22:12.319 Simo Hellsten: It should. We should make sure that it doesn't change 209 00:22:12.520 --> 00:22:14.989 Simo Hellsten: the current default. So if if 210 00:22:15.120 --> 00:22:17.849 Simo Hellsten: a default Webp is set for 211 00:22:18.220 --> 00:22:20.990 Simo Hellsten: lossless, it should be searched for lossless. If it's 212 00:22:21.090 --> 00:22:22.850 Simo Hellsten: default is to set 213 00:22:23.180 --> 00:22:24.600 Simo Hellsten: web p. 2, 214 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:31.129 Simo Hellsten: let's say 90%. It should be 90%. So but that's something I don't know what's the default 215 00:22:31.510 --> 00:22:33.790 Simo Hellsten: behavior when you can't change it? 216 00:22:37.650 --> 00:22:44.340 benji: So let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the people working on the issue have already considered that, and that 217 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:46.660 benji: the default behavior 218 00:22:48.590 --> 00:22:49.460 benji: is 219 00:22:49.970 --> 00:22:51.330 benji: unchanged. 220 00:22:53.190 --> 00:22:55.543 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So the second thing is that 221 00:22:57.466 --> 00:22:59.950 Simo Hellsten: there are 3 3 222 00:23:01.610 --> 00:23:06.140 Simo Hellsten: input elements there. One of them is later. Jpeg, Jpeg, quality. 223 00:23:06.330 --> 00:23:10.730 Simo Hellsten: One is webp quality. And then there is that lossless web piece. So 224 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:13.970 Simo Hellsten: in my 225 00:23:14.320 --> 00:23:16.229 Simo Hellsten: like. My view. 226 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:21.950 Simo Hellsten: lossless word P. And the compression level, they are both 227 00:23:22.300 --> 00:23:25.040 Simo Hellsten: settings for web fee quality. 228 00:23:25.090 --> 00:23:26.310 Simo Hellsten: So it would be. 229 00:23:26.580 --> 00:23:29.070 Simo Hellsten: In my opinion it would be better to have a 230 00:23:29.260 --> 00:23:30.720 Simo Hellsten: Webp quality. 231 00:23:31.822 --> 00:23:35.999 Simo Hellsten: Containing both that checkbox for lossless web peer 232 00:23:36.260 --> 00:23:39.319 Simo Hellsten: and the percentage for 233 00:23:39.530 --> 00:23:40.980 Simo Hellsten: compression level 234 00:23:42.770 --> 00:23:48.700 Simo Hellsten: so that they would be kind of a, it would have 2 sections, Jpeg quality and Webp quality. 235 00:23:57.010 --> 00:24:02.720 benji: That makes sense to me. Again, there! There are no settings for webp 236 00:24:03.230 --> 00:24:05.570 benji: without the patch. So 237 00:24:06.453 --> 00:24:12.319 benji: all of the webp options are being added by this patch, and and I agree it would make sense to 238 00:24:13.170 --> 00:24:16.057 benji: group them together rather than have this 239 00:24:17.020 --> 00:24:17.929 benji: sort of 240 00:24:20.760 --> 00:24:21.870 benji: conditional 241 00:24:23.020 --> 00:24:25.990 benji: progressive disclosure be the 242 00:24:26.070 --> 00:24:27.889 benji: only connection between them. 243 00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:31.450 benji: Go ahead, Ralph. 244 00:24:32.404 --> 00:24:35.020 Ralf Koller: Just one technical question. 245 00:24:35.210 --> 00:24:38.059 Ralf Koller: Since there is a lossless webp 246 00:24:38.230 --> 00:24:39.014 Ralf Koller: checkbox. 247 00:24:40.460 --> 00:24:42.610 Ralf Koller: is the in air quotes 248 00:24:43.740 --> 00:24:49.939 Ralf Koller: processing different. If it's lossless meaning that something is completely 249 00:24:51.770 --> 00:24:52.620 Ralf Koller: skipped. 250 00:24:52.900 --> 00:24:57.100 Ralf Koller: I'm meaning the the compression algorithms. So meaning 251 00:24:57.360 --> 00:25:00.139 Ralf Koller: if you set it to 100%. If the if 252 00:25:00.220 --> 00:25:06.120 Ralf Koller: is, then the compression run anyway, because, for for example, for Jpeg, it is run on every safe. 253 00:25:06.230 --> 00:25:07.350 Ralf Koller: no matter 254 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:11.000 Ralf Koller: to which percentage you said the quality. 255 00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:14.550 Ralf Koller: and you generate with every safe. 256 00:25:15.260 --> 00:25:19.299 Ralf Koller: more visible or non-visible artifacts. And therefore the question 257 00:25:19.730 --> 00:25:24.679 Ralf Koller: is, if there is an actual difference between Lossless and Webp, and if 258 00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:27.060 Ralf Koller: but he's more 259 00:25:27.560 --> 00:25:29.330 Ralf Koller: clever in that regard. 260 00:25:30.682 --> 00:25:33.399 Simo Hellsten: Actually, it's in the last comment 261 00:25:33.790 --> 00:25:36.430 Simo Hellsten: on the issue. It's mentioned that 262 00:25:38.330 --> 00:25:41.070 Simo Hellsten: image Webp, lossless equals, 2 263 00:25:41.260 --> 00:25:43.580 Simo Hellsten: value of 101. 264 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:46.070 Ralf Koller: Oh! 265 00:25:51.970 --> 00:25:53.150 Simo Hellsten: So there is a link. 266 00:25:59.530 --> 00:26:01.550 Ralf Koller: Paste the link in here. 267 00:26:02.780 --> 00:26:06.849 Simo Hellsten: Actually, it's quite nice to be working in the same team. 268 00:26:07.492 --> 00:26:09.457 Simo Hellsten: With the person who makes 269 00:26:09.890 --> 00:26:11.650 Simo Hellsten: these well thought comments. 270 00:26:12.190 --> 00:26:13.710 Simo Hellsten: with the references. 271 00:26:36.840 --> 00:26:37.650 benji: See. 272 00:26:47.110 --> 00:26:49.929 benji: Also, having switched to my laptop, I no longer 273 00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:51.790 benji: have a 274 00:26:54.910 --> 00:26:57.329 benji: issue open. But here it is. 275 00:27:00.410 --> 00:27:02.529 benji: And that last comment you mentioned 276 00:27:07.770 --> 00:27:09.539 benji: what's from Sopro? 277 00:27:24.150 --> 00:27:26.335 benji: It's it's kind of weird that 278 00:27:30.930 --> 00:27:32.370 benji: 101 279 00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:35.370 benji: is 280 00:27:36.800 --> 00:27:38.300 benji: is the setting for 281 00:27:39.090 --> 00:27:40.230 benji: lossless. 282 00:27:51.230 --> 00:27:52.889 benji: let me read this 283 00:27:53.080 --> 00:27:55.950 benji: last point of that last comment in full 284 00:27:58.670 --> 00:28:05.389 benji: need for lossless checkbox on form, since the Img Webp lossless. 285 00:28:05.620 --> 00:28:06.640 benji: constant 286 00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:15.700 benji: equals to 101 value save as reference, we could remove the checkbox and treat 100 selection the same as lossless selection. 287 00:28:16.070 --> 00:28:17.540 benji: This is how 288 00:28:18.280 --> 00:28:21.779 benji: intervention slash image does does it. 289 00:28:22.320 --> 00:28:23.769 benji: and that is some 290 00:28:26.120 --> 00:28:28.060 benji: repository on Github. 291 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.570 benji: I'm not familiar with the intervention slash image, but 292 00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:45.969 benji: it's some sort of Php image 293 00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:47.550 benji: processing library. 294 00:28:50.890 --> 00:28:53.009 Simo Hellsten: And they're they're on the comment. 295 00:28:54.780 --> 00:28:55.650 Simo Hellsten: on that. 296 00:28:57.230 --> 00:29:00.860 Simo Hellsten: it said, that imagic expects 100 297 00:29:01.210 --> 00:29:02.830 Simo Hellsten: value for lossless 298 00:29:03.040 --> 00:29:06.419 Simo Hellsten: in web b format. So the idea was, would be to 299 00:29:06.460 --> 00:29:08.199 Simo Hellsten: of the same value of 4 300 00:29:08.670 --> 00:29:10.529 Simo Hellsten: Gd. And emagic. 301 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:13.210 Simo Hellsten: I guess. 302 00:29:18.860 --> 00:29:19.610 benji: Oh. 303 00:29:20.910 --> 00:29:25.180 benji: where I I don't see a reference to image magic here. 304 00:29:25.180 --> 00:29:27.960 Simo Hellsten: It's on that github page 305 00:29:28.470 --> 00:29:29.250 Simo Hellsten: on that. 306 00:29:30.710 --> 00:29:31.319 Simo Hellsten: I'm ready. 307 00:29:31.320 --> 00:29:32.959 benji: Navigated away from 308 00:29:38.420 --> 00:29:40.920 benji: Value of 101 309 00:29:42.040 --> 00:29:47.819 benji: is lossless encoding with Gd. But imagemagick or imagic, expects 100. 310 00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:58.409 Simo Hellsten: Or wondering if the idea is to. 311 00:30:00.510 --> 00:30:05.329 Simo Hellsten: If the value on the form is 100, then to pass 101 312 00:30:05.710 --> 00:30:06.870 Simo Hellsten: Gd. 313 00:30:07.420 --> 00:30:08.750 Simo Hellsten: or is it? 314 00:30:12.350 --> 00:30:14.630 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, we don't have actually have to 315 00:30:14.750 --> 00:30:17.059 Simo Hellsten: worry so much about that. Just that. 316 00:30:17.834 --> 00:30:21.550 Simo Hellsten: If we decide that quality of 100 317 00:30:21.820 --> 00:30:23.850 Simo Hellsten: on the form should mean that 318 00:30:24.180 --> 00:30:26.100 Simo Hellsten: the image should be processed. 319 00:30:27.300 --> 00:30:29.940 Simo Hellsten: As lossless quality, image. 320 00:30:33.580 --> 00:30:37.069 benji: Right, so it would certainly simplify the form 321 00:30:37.220 --> 00:30:41.439 benji: if, instead of the checkbox and the numeric entry. 322 00:30:41.590 --> 00:30:44.209 benji: if we had a single numeric entry. 323 00:30:53.770 --> 00:30:55.139 benji: let's go. 324 00:30:55.610 --> 00:30:58.819 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, then we would also get rid of that problem with 325 00:30:59.510 --> 00:31:01.410 Simo Hellsten: quality sitting below 326 00:31:02.080 --> 00:31:03.280 Simo Hellsten: on the checkbox. 327 00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:05.230 benji: That's right. 328 00:31:09.690 --> 00:31:11.750 benji: so, on. On the other hand, it's 329 00:31:12.040 --> 00:31:19.430 benji: perhaps misleading. You know, if someone enters 100 and we save value of 101. 330 00:31:20.260 --> 00:31:23.070 benji: What do people think? Is is it 331 00:31:23.340 --> 00:31:25.849 benji: worth being misleading in this case. 332 00:31:27.290 --> 00:31:29.639 benji: in order to simplify the form. 333 00:31:30.710 --> 00:31:34.690 Simo Hellsten: I think it would be enough to mention that in the 334 00:31:34.760 --> 00:31:35.980 Simo Hellsten: description. 335 00:31:46.830 --> 00:31:48.318 benji: So let me just 336 00:31:48.870 --> 00:31:51.370 benji: use my browser tools to 337 00:31:52.100 --> 00:31:54.600 benji: add something to the help text. 338 00:32:31.050 --> 00:32:32.060 benji: We can. 339 00:32:32.660 --> 00:32:33.380 benji: If we 340 00:32:33.820 --> 00:32:36.719 benji: decide to go this route we can refine. 341 00:32:38.970 --> 00:32:40.160 benji: have text. 342 00:32:44.770 --> 00:32:45.876 benji: But still, 343 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:49.669 benji: What do people think of 344 00:32:50.460 --> 00:32:52.950 benji: having a single input rather than 2? 345 00:32:56.020 --> 00:32:58.790 benji: It goes with the less is more philosophy. 346 00:32:59.970 --> 00:33:01.980 benji: I get a thumbs up from Simo 347 00:33:02.060 --> 00:33:03.450 benji: and from Andre. 348 00:33:08.540 --> 00:33:12.940 benji: Are other people undecided? Or do you dislike the idea. 349 00:33:18.050 --> 00:33:20.240 Aaron McHale: Less is more, is always a good approach. I think 350 00:33:20.340 --> 00:33:21.074 Aaron McHale: generally. 351 00:33:26.030 --> 00:33:29.820 Ralf Koller: The only detail I'm still unsure about is 352 00:33:29.850 --> 00:33:33.379 Ralf Koller: yeah, the aspect with the lossless and the 101 353 00:33:40.350 --> 00:33:46.150 Ralf Koller: it just would be interesting if 101 would be sort of different to the 100, 354 00:33:46.900 --> 00:33:49.219 Ralf Koller: or if it's negligible 355 00:33:49.650 --> 00:33:51.800 Ralf Koller: and and one other detail. 356 00:33:57.490 --> 00:34:05.200 Ralf Koller: oh, no, it's okay. I just came back. At 1st I thought they use the 100 for lost S. Webp 357 00:34:05.980 --> 00:34:07.812 Ralf Koller: placed at the end. 358 00:34:09.940 --> 00:34:11.159 Ralf Koller: would be 359 00:34:11.489 --> 00:34:13.700 Ralf Koller: too far in the back. But yeah. 360 00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:21.169 Ralf Koller: the other thing is, the higher values mean better image quality, but bigger files also refers to the quality. So it's okay. 361 00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:32.230 Ralf Koller: In general. I'm also pro the 362 00:34:33.460 --> 00:34:37.010 Ralf Koller: removing the checkbox, but still my worry is the 363 00:34:37.170 --> 00:34:38.340 Ralf Koller: 101 364 00:34:38.449 --> 00:34:39.900 Ralf Koller: detail and lossless. 365 00:34:45.520 --> 00:34:47.280 benji: So I'm sorry you're worried that. 366 00:34:48.610 --> 00:34:49.360 Ralf Koller: Yeah, that's 367 00:34:49.630 --> 00:34:50.859 Ralf Koller: that. The 368 00:34:53.130 --> 00:34:56.689 Ralf Koller: result is slightly different 369 00:34:57.470 --> 00:35:01.400 Ralf Koller: with a 1. 0, 1 compared to a 100. 370 00:35:04.910 --> 00:35:08.050 benji: I mean, I just can't think of a use case for 371 00:35:08.850 --> 00:35:10.509 benji: using 100. 372 00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:16.509 benji: It seems much more likely that if someone enters 100, that 373 00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:19.450 benji: they want lossless compression. 374 00:35:21.777 --> 00:35:25.480 Simo Hellsten: On Google Developers documentation, I read. 375 00:35:25.530 --> 00:35:30.310 Simo Hellsten: note, older readers may not support files using the lossless format 376 00:35:30.670 --> 00:35:34.149 Simo Hellsten: so like there might be some browser 377 00:35:34.310 --> 00:35:37.060 Simo Hellsten: incompatibility with older browsers. 378 00:35:39.930 --> 00:35:43.860 benji: Okay. So there actually is a use case for for 100, although 379 00:35:45.160 --> 00:35:45.785 benji: it's 380 00:35:47.550 --> 00:35:48.410 benji: well. 381 00:35:50.590 --> 00:35:54.519 Simo Hellsten: I'd be happy to recommend having 99%. If you want to support 382 00:35:54.730 --> 00:35:56.040 Simo Hellsten: whole process. 383 00:36:00.600 --> 00:36:04.419 benji: We could let people explicitly set a hundred one. 384 00:36:12.740 --> 00:36:16.450 Aaron McHale: It does feel 101 does feel a bit weird at. 385 00:36:17.795 --> 00:36:27.880 Aaron McHale: I just like it's a weird. No, it's not a pattern that you usually think like you think a hundred percent or 0%, or the 2 extremes, you know, like. 386 00:36:29.210 --> 00:36:37.630 benji: Well, it it. It always bothers me. But people do say things like 101%, 200%, a thousand percent. 387 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:39.200 Aaron McHale: Yeah. 388 00:36:41.530 --> 00:36:43.263 benji: But I I don't want to join them. 389 00:36:44.200 --> 00:36:48.890 Aaron McHale: I mean, I I don't really have a strong objection to the checkbox, like I think 390 00:36:49.250 --> 00:36:51.952 Aaron McHale: I don't know if that's what people were saying like, if there was 391 00:36:52.860 --> 00:36:58.496 Aaron McHale: people had. The reason we're doing this is because there was an objection to having the checkbox. But. 392 00:37:08.142 --> 00:37:10.680 benji: If we do keep the checkbox, then 393 00:37:11.111 --> 00:37:13.100 benji: then we might add a warning 394 00:37:13.210 --> 00:37:14.929 benji: to its help. Text. 395 00:37:16.517 --> 00:37:19.002 benji: with a link to the 396 00:37:19.940 --> 00:37:23.310 benji: Google developer documentation that Sima just mentioned. 397 00:37:26.100 --> 00:37:27.640 benji: this may 398 00:37:28.310 --> 00:37:30.400 benji: cause problems 399 00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:33.200 benji: for some 400 00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:34.470 benji: older 401 00:37:35.650 --> 00:37:37.470 benji: browsers 402 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:39.740 benji: and make 403 00:37:51.240 --> 00:37:53.159 benji: insert link to 404 00:37:54.040 --> 00:37:56.730 benji: the Google Developer documentation 405 00:38:01.010 --> 00:38:02.359 benji: something like that. 406 00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:05.460 benji: Oh, no. 407 00:38:13.630 --> 00:38:15.370 benji: surely it's possible to put a 408 00:38:19.090 --> 00:38:20.360 benji: anyway. 409 00:38:20.620 --> 00:38:22.270 benji: You got the idea, I hope. 410 00:38:27.340 --> 00:38:28.430 benji: Ralph, go ahead. 411 00:38:29.980 --> 00:38:31.220 Ralf Koller: Chest. One thought. 412 00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:32.230 Ralf Koller: if 413 00:38:32.750 --> 00:38:36.389 Ralf Koller: we would go with the checkbox aside your 414 00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:42.259 Ralf Koller: warning, would it make sense to change the verb from define, to set. 415 00:38:42.520 --> 00:38:45.849 Ralf Koller: Set the image quality for repeat to losses, compression. 416 00:38:45.930 --> 00:38:46.755 Ralf Koller: and 417 00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:51.569 Ralf Koller: removed. Then this will override the Webp quality settings below 418 00:38:51.730 --> 00:38:53.869 Ralf Koller: the the directional 419 00:38:54.030 --> 00:38:55.160 Ralf Koller: copy there. 420 00:38:58.940 --> 00:39:01.059 Ralf Koller: because the person checking 421 00:39:01.944 --> 00:39:04.619 Ralf Koller: automatically sees if it's unchecked. 422 00:39:07.680 --> 00:39:08.260 Ralf Koller: I. 423 00:39:08.260 --> 00:39:11.149 benji: Think that's a fair point, although I'd I'd like to 424 00:39:11.570 --> 00:39:18.129 benji: decide whether we have one or 2 form elements before thinking too hard about the 425 00:39:18.330 --> 00:39:19.430 benji: text, but 426 00:39:19.460 --> 00:39:21.029 benji: but I see your point. 427 00:39:21.410 --> 00:39:25.359 Ralf Koller: And also, if going with 2 form elements here. 428 00:39:25.610 --> 00:39:29.949 Ralf Koller: I think it would also make sense to indent the webp quality to the 429 00:39:30.680 --> 00:39:36.189 Ralf Koller: to the same left line left, align it to Lossless Map key, and the description 430 00:39:36.810 --> 00:39:41.110 Ralf Koller: so to intended that it's visually also a part of the checkbox. 431 00:39:44.540 --> 00:39:45.230 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. 432 00:39:45.430 --> 00:39:47.669 Simo Hellsten: Also, it would be. 433 00:39:47.860 --> 00:39:51.510 Simo Hellsten: Might might make it a little bit easier if if it started with 434 00:39:52.604 --> 00:39:55.929 Simo Hellsten: Webp instead of the word lossless. 435 00:39:57.524 --> 00:40:02.999 Simo Hellsten: So that it would be quite like clear that this section is about web P. 436 00:40:03.160 --> 00:40:05.269 Simo Hellsten: So start, start with that one. 437 00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:08.379 Simo Hellsten: or make it kind of a 438 00:40:08.820 --> 00:40:10.320 Simo Hellsten: wrapper or field set. 439 00:40:11.470 --> 00:40:14.070 Andrei Zvonkov: Thinking same things. Yeah. 440 00:40:15.020 --> 00:40:18.319 Andrei Zvonkov: The checkbox comes after the 441 00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:20.460 Andrei Zvonkov: the drum, but it acts as a 442 00:40:21.380 --> 00:40:21.870 Andrei Zvonkov: toggler. 443 00:40:22.060 --> 00:40:22.840 Andrei Zvonkov: 2. 444 00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:28.780 benji: Yeah, if if we keep this behavior, that 445 00:40:28.830 --> 00:40:31.410 benji: when it's checked, the other one is hidden. 446 00:40:31.990 --> 00:40:36.960 benji: then I I think we should keep the order the same, 1st the checkbox, and then 447 00:40:37.060 --> 00:40:38.350 benji: if we. 448 00:40:41.230 --> 00:40:47.099 benji: if we decide that both should always be shown, then we put them in either order. 449 00:40:49.080 --> 00:40:51.380 Simo Hellsten: But I think Lossless 450 00:40:52.100 --> 00:40:52.715 Simo Hellsten: is 451 00:40:55.120 --> 00:40:58.060 Simo Hellsten: It describes the quality of the webp 452 00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:01.510 Simo Hellsten: and the other. The person teach 453 00:41:02.060 --> 00:41:04.820 Simo Hellsten: describes the compression 454 00:41:05.150 --> 00:41:06.370 Simo Hellsten: or lossiness. 455 00:41:07.090 --> 00:41:09.299 Simo Hellsten: but both describe quality. 456 00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:12.460 Simo Hellsten: so lossless is kind of the highest quality. 457 00:41:12.680 --> 00:41:14.740 Simo Hellsten: So I think the quality should be 458 00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:15.395 Simo Hellsten: like, 459 00:41:16.170 --> 00:41:17.410 Simo Hellsten: some kind of a 460 00:41:18.200 --> 00:41:19.470 Simo Hellsten: what's that? That 461 00:41:19.830 --> 00:41:23.780 Simo Hellsten: the main main header or the main label for both of them. 462 00:41:28.830 --> 00:41:32.830 Aaron McHale: They don't necessarily have to have a label. I mean, you can have a field set 463 00:41:33.120 --> 00:41:37.990 Aaron McHale: without a label, but that might not be a good idea much, for sure. 464 00:41:40.700 --> 00:41:45.930 Ralf Koller: Or how about? Simply, yeah, like traffic quality at a Webp quality 465 00:41:46.110 --> 00:41:47.000 Ralf Koller: title. 466 00:41:47.270 --> 00:41:51.870 Ralf Koller: and then have a checkbox lossless. And underneath the quality. 467 00:41:56.020 --> 00:42:00.199 benji: Yeah, I think if if we agree to put them in a field set, then 468 00:42:02.270 --> 00:42:04.760 benji: we could simplify the labels. I think. 469 00:42:05.050 --> 00:42:07.099 benji: basically what Ralph is suggesting. 470 00:42:09.180 --> 00:42:11.769 benji: or perhaps some slight variation of that 471 00:42:13.690 --> 00:42:16.050 benji: are there other usability 472 00:42:16.520 --> 00:42:18.300 benji: questions on this issue? 473 00:42:20.580 --> 00:42:24.790 Simo Hellsten: what Ralph said about changing that define to set. 474 00:42:24.850 --> 00:42:34.179 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, that was on my list as well, and I'd like to actually see it for all all the descriptions, because we don't get to define anything. We just get to 475 00:42:34.700 --> 00:42:37.500 Simo Hellsten: choose from predefined 476 00:42:38.670 --> 00:42:39.800 Simo Hellsten: options. 477 00:42:40.040 --> 00:42:42.729 Simo Hellsten: So it's kind of a yeah set or 478 00:42:42.900 --> 00:42:47.819 Simo Hellsten: choose or select, so set would be the shortest word. We don't get to define 479 00:42:48.330 --> 00:42:50.690 Simo Hellsten: the quality in that sense. 480 00:42:51.230 --> 00:42:55.750 benji: Okay. But but the Usability questions are all all about this configuration form. Yeah. 481 00:42:56.120 --> 00:42:56.860 benji: okay. 482 00:42:57.210 --> 00:43:00.479 Simo Hellsten: Yeah. So changing the word defined to set in all those. 483 00:43:01.660 --> 00:43:03.700 Simo Hellsten: I think it would be good. 484 00:43:06.600 --> 00:43:10.100 Ralf Koller: So to extend it to the Jpeg. Quality description as well. 485 00:43:10.220 --> 00:43:11.730 Simo Hellsten: Yeah, I think so. 486 00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:19.229 Andrei Zvonkov: What? What are the default states of the Webp, as in 487 00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:25.139 Andrei Zvonkov: The Jpeg sits at 2075, and Webp 488 00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:28.269 Andrei Zvonkov: also at 75. 489 00:43:28.870 --> 00:43:36.709 Ralf Koller: The lossless checkbox was unchecked by default, and the Webp quality 490 00:43:37.170 --> 00:43:39.530 Ralf Koller: number field was empty. 491 00:43:41.660 --> 00:43:47.350 Simo Hellsten: For me. It had webp quality at 75%. When I did a clean install with Umami. 492 00:43:48.160 --> 00:43:49.149 Ralf Koller: Oh, okay. 493 00:43:52.530 --> 00:43:54.060 benji: I'm sorry. What did you say was. 494 00:43:54.600 --> 00:43:58.079 Simo Hellsten: For for me. When I did up I I checked out that 495 00:43:58.720 --> 00:44:03.730 Simo Hellsten: branch, and then I did a did a new installation with umame profile. 496 00:44:03.910 --> 00:44:06.470 Simo Hellsten: Then I had 75%. 497 00:44:06.470 --> 00:44:07.450 benji: 75 498 00:44:08.820 --> 00:44:09.600 benji: whoops. 499 00:44:24.030 --> 00:44:27.009 Ralf Koller: Out of curiosity. Is there some sort of 500 00:44:27.570 --> 00:44:34.189 Ralf Koller: recommendation or best practice like for Jpeg. Quality 75. 501 00:44:34.650 --> 00:44:36.250 Ralf Koller: Is it possible that 502 00:44:36.860 --> 00:44:41.188 Ralf Koller: an even lower webp quality gets to an equivalent 503 00:44:42.540 --> 00:44:45.860 Ralf Koller: picture quality. So that's that 504 00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:49.080 Ralf Koller: default could be even set lower. Maybe. 505 00:44:57.740 --> 00:45:00.510 benji: Do? Do you see that as usability issue, Ralph. 506 00:45:01.240 --> 00:45:02.120 Ralf Koller: Who 507 00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:07.770 Ralf Koller: at least it would save the person. 508 00:45:10.460 --> 00:45:14.130 Ralf Koller: The the research. So sort of 509 00:45:18.910 --> 00:45:21.809 Ralf Koller: it touches at least usability from my point of view. 510 00:45:22.100 --> 00:45:24.829 Ralf Koller: But yeah, mainly it's performer performance 511 00:45:25.720 --> 00:45:28.790 Ralf Koller: and display quality. But yeah. 512 00:45:32.270 --> 00:45:34.860 benji: Seema was giving us a link. 513 00:45:36.780 --> 00:45:41.750 Aaron McHale: I'm not not sure that's something. We could make a recommendation on a usability review, though. 514 00:45:43.700 --> 00:45:45.820 Ralf Koller: I wouldn't make a recommendation just 515 00:45:46.190 --> 00:45:48.470 Ralf Koller: leaving a note and ask if 516 00:45:50.190 --> 00:45:52.829 Ralf Koller: there is some yeah. 517 00:45:53.100 --> 00:45:54.200 Ralf Koller: some data. 518 00:45:54.570 --> 00:45:55.840 Ralf Koller: And 519 00:45:56.150 --> 00:45:58.120 Ralf Koller: people working on the issue. Might 520 00:45:59.210 --> 00:46:00.769 Ralf Koller: has an answer for that. 521 00:46:02.490 --> 00:46:16.310 benji: Yeah. So for the sake of the recording, this link is Https, Colon slash slash developers.google.com slash, speed, slash, webp, slash docs, slash webp underscore study. 522 00:46:17.630 --> 00:46:19.070 benji: and I guess this 523 00:46:21.370 --> 00:46:24.979 benji: provide some answers to the questions of 524 00:46:25.130 --> 00:46:26.920 benji: Webp versus Jpeg. 525 00:46:37.550 --> 00:46:41.340 benji: Does it give recommendations at some point conclusion? 526 00:46:43.820 --> 00:46:47.130 benji: The study evaluated Webp compared to Jpeg. 527 00:46:50.980 --> 00:46:53.629 benji: where P. File size is smaller. 528 00:46:58.760 --> 00:47:02.019 benji: So the conclusion doesn't say anything explicitly about 529 00:47:03.340 --> 00:47:04.990 benji: whether the 530 00:47:05.040 --> 00:47:07.429 benji: perceived results are similar. 531 00:47:08.180 --> 00:47:09.400 benji: At the same. 532 00:47:14.060 --> 00:47:22.750 benji: But anyway, I I think, as as Aaron was just saying, that's I. I think that's out out of scope for the 533 00:47:22.990 --> 00:47:24.940 benji: usability questions. 534 00:47:25.670 --> 00:47:26.425 benji: So 535 00:47:29.270 --> 00:47:30.980 benji: I think, basically. 536 00:47:34.330 --> 00:47:39.599 benji: we have to decide 1st whether to have one or 2 form elements, whether to have 537 00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:46.230 benji: just the numeric field with some help text 538 00:47:47.092 --> 00:47:51.780 benji: and then decide whether to go with 100 or 101 for lossless 539 00:47:53.660 --> 00:47:58.449 benji: whether to have just this one form element, or also to have the checkbox. 540 00:48:01.900 --> 00:48:03.080 benji: and I guess 541 00:48:03.460 --> 00:48:08.509 benji: the advantage of a single numeric field is that less is more, it's a less 542 00:48:09.890 --> 00:48:11.320 benji: hottered form. 543 00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:20.069 benji: The disadvantage is that we have to decide whether to use 100 or 101 544 00:48:20.410 --> 00:48:22.869 benji: to indicate lossless quality. 545 00:48:24.650 --> 00:48:29.629 benji: it works differently, depending on the toolkit. Here we've selected. Gd, 2. 546 00:48:29.860 --> 00:48:34.059 benji: A lot of sites will be using imagemagick, which works a little differently. 547 00:48:39.670 --> 00:48:40.890 benji: there's 548 00:48:40.940 --> 00:48:47.249 benji: another disadvantage. Is that or or an advantage to having 2 549 00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:50.680 benji: is that we can, if we want to. 550 00:48:51.524 --> 00:48:56.199 benji: Give some additional information. That choosing Lossless 551 00:48:57.020 --> 00:48:58.260 benji: may have 552 00:48:58.530 --> 00:49:00.739 benji: difficulty for older browsers. 553 00:49:01.080 --> 00:49:02.759 benji: and I wonder? 554 00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:09.249 benji: if we look on the main drupal.org documentation page? 555 00:49:10.030 --> 00:49:11.060 benji: How much 556 00:49:12.230 --> 00:49:15.230 benji: information is there for 557 00:49:16.941 --> 00:49:18.800 benji: and how do you find 558 00:49:22.710 --> 00:49:25.880 benji: documentation for for modules 559 00:49:26.290 --> 00:49:28.220 benji: probably have a bookmark for that. 560 00:49:37.770 --> 00:49:39.690 benji: not Apis. 561 00:49:40.860 --> 00:49:42.380 benji: It's not 777. 562 00:49:44.470 --> 00:49:47.999 benji: Where are the core modules? Here we go, core modules and themes. 563 00:49:50.830 --> 00:49:53.259 benji: and then it would be the image module right? 564 00:50:17.040 --> 00:50:19.210 benji: I don't see anything here. 565 00:50:20.085 --> 00:50:25.230 Ralf Koller: Setting image quality. There's a point, and that refers only to Jpec quality. 566 00:50:27.110 --> 00:50:30.430 Ralf Koller: Right? Be before troubleshooting the section. 567 00:50:30.670 --> 00:50:31.960 Ralf Koller: If you scroll down. 568 00:50:33.700 --> 00:50:35.940 benji: There we go, study, image quality. 569 00:50:40.220 --> 00:50:42.540 Ralf Koller: That would have to be extended as well. Then. 570 00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:45.660 benji: There's also 571 00:50:46.310 --> 00:50:49.179 benji: this link which goes to the Api docs. 572 00:50:57.230 --> 00:50:58.510 benji: So 573 00:51:09.720 --> 00:51:11.727 benji: so I I guess 574 00:51:13.390 --> 00:51:19.089 benji: we should expand this as part of this issue. Someone should 575 00:51:19.950 --> 00:51:22.279 benji: edit this page and 576 00:51:23.590 --> 00:51:25.700 benji: and say something about 577 00:51:25.960 --> 00:51:29.479 benji: Webp, and this might be the right place to have 578 00:51:30.160 --> 00:51:35.100 benji: the warning that Lossless might not work on older browsers. 579 00:51:39.902 --> 00:51:41.410 benji: Here, let me 580 00:51:42.770 --> 00:51:45.320 benji: share this link in the zoom. Chat. 581 00:51:46.690 --> 00:51:47.500 benji: Whoa. 582 00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:05.630 benji: okay, so we have to make a decision. One form element or 2. Anyone want to argue 583 00:52:06.080 --> 00:52:07.980 benji: in favor of one or the other? 584 00:52:14.350 --> 00:52:18.239 benji: I don't see anyone speaking up so votes 585 00:52:18.410 --> 00:52:21.340 benji: who's in favor of a single form element. 586 00:52:22.890 --> 00:52:24.829 benji: I'm not sure I've made up my own mind. 587 00:52:27.170 --> 00:52:30.039 benji: And who's in favor of 2 form elements. 588 00:52:31.500 --> 00:52:33.210 benji: I see 2 thumbs up. 589 00:52:34.470 --> 00:52:36.369 benji: 3 thumbs up, 4 thumbs up. 590 00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:42.570 benji: And 591 00:52:43.300 --> 00:52:46.310 benji: and why do you prefer having 2 form elements? Is it 592 00:52:46.870 --> 00:52:50.680 benji: because of what I was saying that we could give a link to the 593 00:52:51.630 --> 00:52:53.210 benji: documentation on 594 00:52:53.590 --> 00:52:55.010 benji: lossless support. 595 00:53:00.266 --> 00:53:02.730 Simo Hellsten: Since it changes. 596 00:53:03.513 --> 00:53:04.340 Simo Hellsten: How that 597 00:53:04.720 --> 00:53:11.190 Simo Hellsten: image image is stored, or what kind of thing like, how how it processes it. Then it's kind of 598 00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:12.640 Simo Hellsten: easier, too. 599 00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:16.809 Simo Hellsten: not not to mix that the settings. 600 00:53:17.220 --> 00:53:20.050 Simo Hellsten: So it's for me. It makes makes it clearer. 601 00:53:21.560 --> 00:53:24.260 benji: Okay? And you get a thumbs up from Ralph on that. 602 00:53:25.650 --> 00:53:31.026 Aaron McHale: Yeah, I don't think there's any. It's not a crowded form, and also it's 603 00:53:34.023 --> 00:53:37.889 Aaron McHale: it, it's probably clear having those 2 elements. 604 00:53:40.140 --> 00:53:44.519 benji: Okay? And and it avoids the 100 versus 101 605 00:53:47.270 --> 00:53:49.500 benji: option, which which is sort of Kluge. 606 00:53:49.870 --> 00:53:54.419 benji: Okay? So we'll we'll recommend keeping the 2 form elements. 607 00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:58.900 benji: and 608 00:53:59.940 --> 00:54:03.599 benji: do we agree that they should be put inside a field set? 609 00:54:09.830 --> 00:54:15.090 benji: I get a thumbs up from Ralph and from Simo. I think they should be inside a field, set 610 00:54:16.090 --> 00:54:17.770 benji: thumbs up from animal. 611 00:54:20.630 --> 00:54:22.889 benji: Anyone disagree. Go ahead, Andre. 612 00:54:23.570 --> 00:54:31.299 Andrei Zvonkov: No, I'm I'm just like in this context, what is a field set? They're each wrapped in and toggled to 613 00:54:32.940 --> 00:54:34.149 Andrei Zvonkov: to be opened. 614 00:54:36.533 --> 00:54:39.426 benji: So a field set is not a 615 00:54:40.300 --> 00:54:43.890 benji: details element. A field set is always open thing. 616 00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:45.390 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, I mean. 617 00:54:45.500 --> 00:54:49.059 Andrei Zvonkov: I'd prefer things to be open by default, for sure. 618 00:54:49.180 --> 00:54:49.870 Andrei Zvonkov: So. 619 00:54:50.270 --> 00:54:51.639 benji: Yeah, so so 620 00:54:51.660 --> 00:54:55.189 benji: so this is actually a field set, and it's collapsible. But 621 00:54:55.200 --> 00:54:56.185 benji: visually 622 00:54:58.610 --> 00:55:04.029 benji: the expanded details element is similar to the field sets, you'd have this border around it. 623 00:55:04.150 --> 00:55:06.929 benji: and so we'd have a field set 624 00:55:07.040 --> 00:55:10.500 benji: inside here enclosing these 2 elements. 625 00:55:10.530 --> 00:55:11.850 benji: and the field set 626 00:55:11.900 --> 00:55:14.239 benji: would would have have a label. 627 00:55:15.070 --> 00:55:15.760 benji: Yep. 628 00:55:16.170 --> 00:55:16.750 Andrei Zvonkov: Sure. 629 00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:19.840 benji: So 630 00:55:22.970 --> 00:55:24.400 benji: let's see. 631 00:55:30.450 --> 00:55:33.829 benji: just for the sake of 632 00:55:36.630 --> 00:55:38.479 benji: having a place where I can type. 633 00:55:39.310 --> 00:55:40.490 benji: Let me 634 00:55:40.830 --> 00:55:42.210 benji: go here. 635 00:55:48.090 --> 00:55:50.250 benji: So something like Web 636 00:55:51.420 --> 00:55:54.049 benji: web key quality. 637 00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:57.100 benji: So that's the field set 638 00:56:00.620 --> 00:56:04.099 benji: and then indented inside that you would have 639 00:56:09.730 --> 00:56:11.400 benji: webp quality. 640 00:56:11.490 --> 00:56:12.830 benji: lossless 641 00:56:18.450 --> 00:56:19.820 benji: check box. 642 00:56:22.900 --> 00:56:23.730 benji: And 643 00:56:31.680 --> 00:56:37.250 benji: what I'm typing isn't necessarily what we'd have, we? We could just make it quality 644 00:56:43.806 --> 00:56:48.020 benji: so I'm suggesting that we would not repeat 645 00:56:48.100 --> 00:56:51.019 benji: web piece, since it's inside the field set 646 00:56:53.250 --> 00:56:56.250 benji: and just have lossless 647 00:56:56.650 --> 00:56:58.260 benji: and quality 648 00:56:59.400 --> 00:57:01.500 benji: as the the labels 649 00:57:01.530 --> 00:57:03.110 benji: does that sound reasonable? 650 00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:11.279 benji: I get a thumbs up from Andre. 651 00:57:11.570 --> 00:57:12.530 benji: Go ahead, Ralph. 652 00:57:12.750 --> 00:57:14.209 Ralf Koller: On the only lippick 653 00:57:14.410 --> 00:57:17.450 Ralf Koller: I completely agree in regards of 654 00:57:17.790 --> 00:57:20.319 Ralf Koller: there are lossless label to 655 00:57:20.819 --> 00:57:25.409 Ralf Koller: strike Webp, since it's in the field set title, but 656 00:57:26.890 --> 00:57:36.600 Ralf Koller: If the field set is called webp quality, then for the label, for the numeric field is also in air. Call sort of redundant. 657 00:57:38.720 --> 00:57:45.900 Ralf Koller: by using quality again. Wouldn't it be better? Something like compression, or I don't know. 658 00:57:46.770 --> 00:57:48.460 benji: Yeah, I was thinking that, too. 659 00:57:49.610 --> 00:57:50.940 benji: Cmo. 660 00:57:52.790 --> 00:57:53.510 benji: yeah. 661 00:57:53.640 --> 00:58:00.080 Simo Hellsten: I'm thinking, is it obvious that if you uncheck lossless, it's a compressed. 662 00:58:00.300 --> 00:58:04.129 Simo Hellsten: So we could use radio buttons for the 2 options. 663 00:58:04.830 --> 00:58:05.450 benji: Oh! 664 00:58:08.020 --> 00:58:09.100 Simo Hellsten: And then 665 00:58:10.410 --> 00:58:11.740 Simo Hellsten: selecting that 666 00:58:11.910 --> 00:58:14.319 Simo Hellsten: a compressed compressed version 667 00:58:15.110 --> 00:58:16.360 Simo Hellsten: weed, maybe. 668 00:58:18.950 --> 00:58:20.789 Simo Hellsten: then include the 669 00:58:22.190 --> 00:58:25.710 Simo Hellsten: a percentage. And then it would be obvious. 670 00:58:29.080 --> 00:58:31.419 benji: Aaron, you were reacting with some 671 00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:34.149 benji: emoji. What were what were you trying to say. 672 00:58:36.530 --> 00:58:37.600 Aaron McHale: Oh, it was just 673 00:58:38.230 --> 00:58:39.940 Aaron McHale: strongly agreeing with 674 00:58:40.030 --> 00:58:40.585 Aaron McHale: what 675 00:58:41.310 --> 00:58:43.469 Aaron McHale: Simo said, I think actually 676 00:58:44.540 --> 00:58:45.780 Aaron McHale: having. 677 00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:57.249 Aaron McHale: because we generally like use a checkbox where it's a very clear on off, like yes or no, whereas this is, you know, is maybe a little less clear like you said so. Actually, having radio buttons is 678 00:58:57.290 --> 00:58:59.674 Aaron McHale: perhaps more appropriate here. 679 00:59:00.600 --> 00:59:02.616 Aaron McHale: I think you probably want 680 00:59:04.590 --> 00:59:10.327 Aaron McHale: I guess I would score with like Lot like Lossy and Lossless. But maybe 681 00:59:10.990 --> 00:59:16.220 Aaron McHale: I don't know if the radio button labels should also say, like, you know, compressed and non compressed. So maybe like 682 00:59:16.900 --> 00:59:19.600 Aaron McHale: compressed brackets, you know. 683 00:59:20.100 --> 00:59:24.600 Aaron McHale: Lossy, no compression brackets, lossless or something cause like 684 00:59:25.550 --> 00:59:29.550 Aaron McHale: not many people might understand those technical terms. 685 00:59:31.660 --> 00:59:34.099 Aaron McHale: but it's useful to have them still. So 686 00:59:34.560 --> 00:59:35.410 Aaron McHale: yeah. 687 00:59:44.060 --> 00:59:45.859 benji: So I I guess 688 00:59:46.010 --> 00:59:51.909 benji: I'm I'm not sure how it would look to have the numeric field in 689 00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:55.460 benji: inside the second radio button option. 690 00:59:55.550 --> 00:59:56.790 benji: Ralph. 691 00:59:57.220 --> 00:59:57.785 Ralf Koller: Yeah, 692 00:59:58.530 --> 01:00:01.881 Ralf Koller: my question would be in the similar vein. 693 01:00:02.430 --> 01:00:06.439 Ralf Koller: how we are matching. It would be the the numeric field 694 01:00:06.700 --> 01:00:07.950 Ralf Koller: basically 695 01:00:08.310 --> 01:00:09.580 Ralf Koller: in line 696 01:00:09.610 --> 01:00:18.029 Ralf Koller: with the radio button or would be there. The label, for example, let's go with Lossy, for now and underneath indented. 697 01:00:18.220 --> 01:00:19.130 Ralf Koller: Then 698 01:00:20.167 --> 01:00:22.050 Ralf Koller: the numeric field. 699 01:00:23.830 --> 01:00:27.219 benji: Write something like that. You get a thumbs up from Aaron. 700 01:00:27.990 --> 01:00:34.769 benji: and and I guess thumbs up from Simo. So I so I guess the idea is, we might still have the progressive disclosure 701 01:00:34.940 --> 01:00:37.430 benji: just instead of 702 01:00:37.490 --> 01:00:40.059 benji: a checkbox. We'd have radio buttons. 703 01:00:40.170 --> 01:00:43.390 benji: And when the second radio button is selected 704 01:00:43.730 --> 01:00:46.230 benji: and we'd see the numeric field. Is that what 705 01:00:46.580 --> 01:00:47.789 benji: people are thinking. 706 01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:53.220 Simo Hellsten: Yes. 707 01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:57.680 benji: Thumbs up from Aaron. Yes, from Seemo. 708 01:01:03.180 --> 01:01:09.379 benji: okay. So basically, it would work the same as we have here. But instead of the checkbox. We'd have radio buttons. 709 01:01:19.450 --> 01:01:24.569 Ralf Koller: And with radio buttons we wouldn't need even a field set. But it could 710 01:01:24.770 --> 01:01:27.690 Ralf Koller: have a simple yeah radio button title 711 01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:29.790 Ralf Koller: that way. 712 01:01:30.780 --> 01:01:32.889 Ralf Koller: so it won't be collapsible anymore. 713 01:01:42.390 --> 01:01:43.810 benji: Oh, so! 714 01:01:45.130 --> 01:01:48.666 benji: So you want to give up on the idea of 715 01:01:49.190 --> 01:01:51.640 benji: The field set with this option. 716 01:01:57.750 --> 01:02:00.920 Ralf Koller: just searching for an example right now. 717 01:02:03.820 --> 01:02:05.850 Ralf Koller: because if you take a look at 718 01:02:06.170 --> 01:02:08.670 Ralf Koller: if you go, for example, to a content type 719 01:02:08.710 --> 01:02:10.839 Ralf Koller: and the submission form settings. 720 01:02:12.710 --> 01:02:17.910 Ralf Koller: there you have radio buttons, and those have a title and 721 01:02:17.950 --> 01:02:20.070 Ralf Koller: 3 options there. So 722 01:02:20.160 --> 01:02:22.490 Ralf Koller: there isn't not really a need 723 01:02:22.630 --> 01:02:23.990 Ralf Koller: for a field slift then. 724 01:02:24.030 --> 01:02:25.350 Ralf Koller: and it's still 725 01:02:25.420 --> 01:02:27.250 Ralf Koller: separated and 726 01:02:27.350 --> 01:02:29.370 Ralf Koller: clearly communicated to that way. 727 01:02:32.030 --> 01:02:34.410 benji: What you're suggesting. I go to content type. 728 01:02:34.410 --> 01:02:35.810 Ralf Koller: Content types just 729 01:02:37.710 --> 01:02:40.379 Ralf Koller: and then on a content type on the edit page. 730 01:02:40.560 --> 01:02:41.410 Ralf Koller: simply. 731 01:02:49.110 --> 01:02:51.559 Ralf Koller: as you can see preview before submitting. 732 01:02:51.730 --> 01:02:54.649 Ralf Koller: It's the title. And then you have disabled an optional. 733 01:02:55.250 --> 01:03:01.190 Ralf Koller: and there there wouldn't be a need for field set. Because, yeah, it's for me. Fields having 734 01:03:02.470 --> 01:03:07.940 Ralf Koller: several field sets within each other. It feels like Matryka principle for me always, and 735 01:03:08.990 --> 01:03:10.069 Ralf Koller: it's a bit odd. 736 01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:17.509 benji: Okay? So again, what you're suggesting is something very similar to this, just replacing the 737 01:03:17.770 --> 01:03:19.480 benji: check box with 738 01:03:19.930 --> 01:03:21.470 benji: radio buttons. 739 01:03:21.470 --> 01:03:24.560 Ralf Koller: Yeah, as we said, it's nothing else. It's just the 740 01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:28.430 Ralf Koller: Don't make it a field set necessarily 741 01:03:29.010 --> 01:03:31.349 Ralf Koller: right, just having a title. 742 01:03:31.520 --> 01:03:33.650 Ralf Koller: It's still the same, but just 743 01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:37.820 Ralf Koller: with one less visual control for collapsing. 744 01:03:37.950 --> 01:03:40.639 Ralf Koller: which is not really necessary here I think 745 01:03:40.840 --> 01:03:41.870 Ralf Koller: my perspective. 746 01:04:01.720 --> 01:04:07.730 benji: So something like this. So we'd have 2 radio buttons, perhaps lossless and Lossy. 747 01:04:10.520 --> 01:04:12.210 benji: the, the 748 01:04:12.370 --> 01:04:14.719 benji: the label for those 2 749 01:04:15.710 --> 01:04:18.329 benji: radio buttons would be web T quality. 750 01:04:18.540 --> 01:04:23.320 benji: and then, when Lossi is selected, which I guess would be the default. 751 01:04:24.105 --> 01:04:26.949 benji: You'd also have the numeric field for compression. 752 01:04:30.230 --> 01:04:31.169 benji: Is that 753 01:04:32.380 --> 01:04:37.120 benji: we only have a couple of minutes left. Is is that the recommendation we want to make? 754 01:04:38.850 --> 01:04:41.749 benji: Get a thumbs up from Ralph and from Aaron 755 01:04:43.240 --> 01:04:46.260 benji: and from Andre and Simo. Okay? 756 01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:57.299 benji: So who would like to leave this comment? 757 01:05:04.540 --> 01:05:06.090 benji: No volunteers. 758 01:05:06.792 --> 01:05:07.897 benji: Oh, also 759 01:05:09.170 --> 01:05:11.869 benji: Should the help text, as I've suggested. 760 01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:14.816 benji: have a link to 761 01:05:16.400 --> 01:05:17.630 benji: something about 762 01:05:19.740 --> 01:05:24.120 benji: older browsers. Or should we just do that on 763 01:05:26.610 --> 01:05:29.450 benji: here on the documentation page for the module? 764 01:05:36.130 --> 01:05:37.120 benji: Go ahead. 765 01:05:37.410 --> 01:05:40.470 Ralf Koller: Maybe simply, instead of linking 766 01:05:41.050 --> 01:05:42.430 Ralf Koller: to that 767 01:05:44.660 --> 01:05:47.690 Ralf Koller: Google Docs page instead, maybe 768 01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:53.030 Ralf Koller: on on the on the image page linked to the Docs page, and there 769 01:05:53.250 --> 01:05:54.630 Ralf Koller: make the explanation. 770 01:05:54.810 --> 01:05:55.770 Ralf Koller: maybe 771 01:05:58.720 --> 01:06:00.440 Ralf Koller: more precise and more 772 01:06:00.580 --> 01:06:03.730 Ralf Koller: sticking to the pattern used on other pages. 773 01:06:04.430 --> 01:06:05.610 Ralf Koller: The Admin ui. 774 01:06:07.950 --> 01:06:10.750 benji: Okay, so definitely update this page 775 01:06:12.190 --> 01:06:13.610 benji: and 776 01:06:18.380 --> 01:06:19.250 benji: and just 777 01:06:19.940 --> 01:06:22.360 benji: put a link here or put a link somewhere else. 778 01:06:37.010 --> 01:06:40.599 Ralf Koller: Would it make sense to make a link between make the 779 01:06:41.300 --> 01:06:46.769 Ralf Koller: help text between the title and the radio buttons? So it's not directly 780 01:06:47.750 --> 01:06:50.800 Ralf Koller: in close proximity to the one option. 781 01:06:52.240 --> 01:06:54.489 Ralf Koller: The 2 available radio buttons. 782 01:06:59.167 --> 01:07:06.930 benji: We could do that, or we could put it after the 2 radio buttons. But I I think, since it specifically affects the 783 01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:10.399 benji: one of the 2 options. I think it makes more sense to put it there. 784 01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:15.200 benji: But we we are out of time, and we we don't have time to 785 01:07:15.630 --> 01:07:18.310 benji: Talk about the exact wording of the help text. 786 01:07:19.052 --> 01:07:23.110 benji: Okay. If we don't have any other volunteers, then I guess I will 787 01:07:23.350 --> 01:07:25.410 benji: try to leave a comment. Later today 788 01:07:25.640 --> 01:07:27.069 benji: I have time to do that. 789 01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:30.500 Simo Hellsten: I can also leave the comment. 790 01:07:31.900 --> 01:07:33.649 benji: Thank you, Sima. Why don't you do it? Then? 791 01:07:35.874 --> 01:07:39.769 benji: I will be at Drupalcon next week. I plan to 792 01:07:39.900 --> 01:07:42.116 benji: run the meeting from there. 793 01:07:43.160 --> 01:07:50.529 benji: If something goes wrong, then you you might have to do it without me. But thank you all for coming, and hope to do it again next week. 794 01:07:52.380 --> 01:07:53.830 Ralf Koller: Thank you. Have a nice weekend. 795 01:07:54.040 --> 01:07:54.580 Simo Hellsten: Have a nice week. 796 01:07:54.580 --> 01:07:55.260 Aaron McHale: Say. 797 01:07:55.920 --> 01:07:56.700 Andrei Zvonkov: Yeah, bye. 798 01:07:59.020 --> 01:07:59.810 Anmol Goel: Thank you.