Meeting will happen in #d9readiness on drupal.slack.com.

Hello and welcome to this Drupal 9 readiness meeting!

This meeting:
➤ Is for core and contributed project developers as well as people who have integrations and services related to core. Site developers who want to stay in the know to keep up-to-date for the easiest Drupal 9 upgrade of their sites are also welcome.
➤ Usually happens every other Monday at 19:00 UTC.
➤ Is done over chat.
➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ Has a public agenda anyone can add to: `https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3044971`
➤*Transcript will be exported and posted* to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.

Moderated By: Gabor Hojtsy (he/him)

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself and tell us what you are here for.

Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) Gábor Hojtsy core committer, Drupal 9 cat herder :slightly_smiling_face:
mikelutz Michael Lutz here. Migrate system maintainer and general troublemaker.
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) cc @mglaman, @catch, @herczogzoltan, @alexpott, @berdir, @jibran, @nerdstein, @lendude
nerdstein Nerdstein, lurking and trying to "fix" simplytest :slightly_smiling_face:
Nikunj Kotecha nik, just another random guy (for now)
shaal Ofer Shaal, Umami demo, here to learn
lendude Len, lurking
mglaman Matt, late
larowlan Lee, timezones--
mikelutz @larowlan That’s how I feel about deprecation office hours at 4am :slightly_smiling_face:
larowlan its 6am here and I'm still late
larowlan @mikelutz here's how 'core meetings' look in my timezone
mikelutz @larowlan Okay, you win, lol. Those office hours are the only bad one for me. :slightly_smiling_face:
mikelutz You must be a night owl.
larowlan nope, I just don't get to attend anything

1️⃣ Suggest topics here! We’ll edit and turn them into numbers :slightly_smiling_face:

Nikunj Kotecha would love to hear about some concrete steps for D8 contrib module maintainers (would love to have stable releases of clientside_validation, pcb, etc.)
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @Nikunj Kotecha good idea, let me open a topic (soon) for it :slightly_smiling_face:
shaal @Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) determine and document the minimum PHP version supported by Drupal9 ?
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) any other topic suggestions? :slightly_smiling_face:
johndevman ckeditor5 in d9?
Nikunj Kotecha can you re-share the meta issue with links to all small ones which someone like might me look into? (with limited knowledge and time but willingness to contribute)
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @Nikunj Kotecha done

2️⃣ DrupalCon Seattle plans. What do we want to discuss, meet on, etc.

Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) what we know as fact is @alexpott is doing a D9 session :slightly_smiling_face: Dries will also talk a bunch about D9 in his keynote pointing people to tools such as drupal-check from @mglaman and the dashboard being built by @herczogzoltan and me
nerdstein are there any last minute things that have come up that need hands? ill be in seattle a day early
mikelutz I’ll happily lurk in any of those meetings I can pry my way into. :slightly_smiling_face:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) I added 4 BoFs Mon-Thu
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @mikelutz there were 30 minute BoF slots, so we’ll cover *some* ground in them but I would not be surprised if they would be more informational than deep-dive
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @nerdstein our most important focus leading up to DrupalCon is the coder rule for deprecations, let me open a 3️⃣ :slightly_smiling_face:
nerdstein ok
mikelutz @Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) are there any bigger planning meetings with the committers planned? Things like more concrete steps to get to Symfony 4, deprecations, blockers to opening a 9.0.x branch, etc?
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @mikelutz we will collate all the meetings people proposed with Jess and Shannon tomorrow :slightly_smiling_face: I know there is a Symfony 4 vs. 5 one that you will definitely be critical on :slightly_smiling_face:
mikelutz I have opinions on that. :slightly_smiling_face:
mikelutz They may be wrong, but I have them. :slightly_smiling_face:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) the way these meetings work is (a) we issue a call for meetings to initative leads (b) collate the ideas (c) assign leads to each meeting (d) lead identifies all must-have parties (e) we ping all of them to enter their data in the contribution spreadsheet (f) we schedule meetings based on extent of info we have
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) oh and (g) publish all meetings publicly on g.d.o/core ahead of DrupalCon
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) we are as usually quite late with the whole thing, but people usually don’t provide availablity data too early anyway
mikelutz I plugged myself for full ‘whatever’ availability for the week, so any meetings I may be useful at, I’ll be there.
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) yeah everyone else reading is the sheet we look at for data to schedule meetings, so please add your data
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) for those not in the sheet, we cannot guarantee the time will fit
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) also since the AM/PM granularity is not very detailed, we may still have some scheduling difficulty
mglaman If anyone wants to chat, I’ll be busy at the CG booth probably
mglaman we have some big things happening and I’ll be tied there

3️⃣ Deprecation formats coder rule

Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) blocks the adoption of the standard message format in core
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) this would need people to turn into actual patch form and get it land ASAP :slightly_smiling_face:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) hopefully all before DrupalCon so we can start DrupalCon by doing patches to fix core for the format
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @nerdstein is the above something you can help with?
nerdstein let me look
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) (since you asked) :slightly_smiling_face:

4️⃣ State of drupal-check ahead of DrupalCon

Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) I’ve seen working on upgrade_status today that there are some dependency problems with nette changing APIs or so
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) do you need help @mglaman resolving these?
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) should we have a central place to know trusted versions other than drupal-check?
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) ie. for modules like upgrade_status that merely takes its dependencies instead as it does not need the command line binaries
mglaman Any isues can go to phpstan-drupal, sort it out from there
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) ok

5️⃣ Concrete steps for contrib maintainers to “update to Drupal 9”

Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @Nikunj Kotecha this is a good place for you :slightly_smiling_face:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) 1. There is drupal-check that you can try out on your module:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) this will tell you about used deprecated code
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) if you resolve these as time goes on then you will be close to Drupal 9 compatibilty
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) two things may come up (a) new deprecations are added but 8.8 is planned to be the last core minor release to add them (b) 3rd party dependencies may add deprecations, but you are only affected if you use Symfony, Twig, Guzzle, etc. APIs directly
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) 2. CI has support for the same deprecation checking that drupal-check is using
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) (I should really write the docs page I want to do about this :D)
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) you can use these keys of drupalci.yml in your d.o project:

```build:
assessment:
validate_codebase:
# Static analysis of code for @deprecated uses.
phpstan:
halt-on-fail: false
testing:
run_tests.standard:
types: 'Simpletest,PHPUnit-Unit,PHPUnit-Kernel,PHPUnit-Functional'
# Fails on errors triggered.
suppress-deprecations: false
run_tests.js:
concurrency: 1
types: 'PHPUnit-FunctionalJavascript'
# Fails on errors triggered.
suppress-deprecations: false```

Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) either in a patch or on a branch
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) failing on deprecations may be problematic as core still uses deprecated things on its own, so for now that is a risky setup :smile:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) but using the phpstan analysis should be fine, as long as that works, see 4️⃣ for the curren bug with it :smile:
Nikunj Kotecha does make sense?
mikelutz I would love to figure out a plan to get core up to date with the drupal-check stuff. We have so many metas/issues around core deprecations, I wish we had one issue where it was organized.
mikelutz But that is not this thread.
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @mikelutz yeah its always a competing thing of do we fix url() everywhere or do we fix this file for that issue and that file for that
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @mikelutz at least when sprinted heavily
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @Nikunj Kotecha yup
mikelutz @Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) fix url() everywhere, because I already wrote that patch, then do the modules by module because the patches don’t step over each other.
mikelutz :slightly_smiling_face:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) I know you did :wink:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) :stuck_out_tongue:
berdir I've already asked that people update to also cover drupal-check and not just your testbot-patch approach, nobody stepped up yet, IMHO that would be the page to describe both
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @berdir good call, I’ll try to keep that in mind
Nikunj Kotecha I feel is good enough, just need to add some references / examples of real tests and issues created out of it for people to see what to look for from lengthy reports
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) I think merging with the Midcamp instructions using drupal-check would be best :slightly_smiling_face:
Nikunj Kotecha any link to midcamp instructions?
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @mglaman had them, I think they mostly got turned into drupal-check’s project page
mglaman I think this
mglaman and
Nikunj Kotecha @mglaman any public channel to ask for help around drupal-check?

Blocker 1: If you have drupal/coder required in global, there are dependency issues and can't install mglaman/drupal-check

mglaman That’s why you should use the phar
mglaman I should just remove composer global require
mglaman but I don’t have signed phars and selfupdate added
Nikunj Kotecha ok, so instructions from and not the project home
mglaman @Nikunj Kotecha can you open an issue about the conflicts? And I guess <#CDDD98AMN|d9readiness> is best place to ask
mglaman I’m having to handle a client production problem. Feel free to open an issue. And then use phar for now
Nikunj Kotecha I was thinking of creating issue and adding this detail to help others who would face same
Nikunj Kotecha
mglaman thanks
mglaman `Conclusion: remove symfony/console v3.4.21` because phpstan uses ^4
mglaman I blame drush launcher vs coder
mglaman or zaporylie/composer-drupal-optimizations
Nikunj Kotecha aah ok, let me try
Nikunj Kotecha that one I believe was added to BLT so would need to be checked and fixed IMO
mglaman I know @zaporylie added drupal/core as a require-dev which could be why
mglaman and there’s work to remove it
Nikunj Kotecha I'll try to dig a bit deeper tomorrow as soon as I get chance, almost 1 AM now :slightly_smiling_face:
mglaman go to sleep :slightly_smiling_face:
Nikunj Kotecha thanks for the steps
zaporylie @mglaman @Nikunj Kotecha I initially added `drupal/core` to plugin’s `require` but managed to remove that dependency in . The plugin, starting from 1.1.0, relays on `drupal/core` version constraint in root composer.json or custom configuration defined in `extra`.
zaporylie @mglaman Thanks for pinging me
Nikunj Kotecha thanks @zaporylie, based on your comment above is my understanding correct that this package should not be added to composer global and I did something which was not supposed to be done?
zaporylie @Nikunj Kotecha That was the case before, but with the newest release it should work even if it’s added to composer global.
Nikunj Kotecha got it, thanks @zaporylie, I think I need to keep updating global packages too
zaporylie Definitely :slightly_smiling_face: Or use the plugin locally, which btw is the preferable way

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6️⃣ Determine and document the minimum PHP version supported by Drupal 9

Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) Thanks @shaal for raising this, I think this has been discussed in recent meetings
mikelutz easy, 7.4
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) I’ll look at some archives :smile:
mikelutz Obviously at least 7.1 for Symfony 4. 7.2 would be really nice though.
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) I did not find the answer in the past 4 meetings, but the meeting 2 weeks ago is not yet posted on its issue
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) the 8.7.0-beta1 release notes already recommends 7.2 :slightly_smiling_face:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) new users are already required to use 7.0.8 at least
mikelutz Really, the Symfony 4 vs 5 discussion will dictate this, I suspect.
mikelutz I assume Symfony 5 will require 7.2 or 7.3
mikelutz (or this might dictate the symfony 4 vs 5 discussion, if we don’t want to require that high of a version)
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) yeah with Symfony we need to weight the cost/benefit of jumping to 5
mikelutz I personally would rather see the Drupal Major versions come out more often than try to push dependencies too far, but that is a much bigger discussion.
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) yeah also smaller changesets to deal with
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) if we already know we have a good handle on Symfony 4, we can stop on that and deal with cleaning up our own stuff and working on better migration path let’s say from 7 :slightly_smiling_face:
mikelutz Sitting and staring at 4 years worth of cleanup to get ready for D9 makes me want Drupal 10 within 2 years of Drupal 9.
mikelutz Symfony 4 is going to be a difficult enough transition. Core is ready, but we have no way to make sure that contrib is ready. I’m worried about turning it on as an optional dependency just because we are now passing tests in core. We had to do some work to make that happen, but contrib hasn’t had a chance to do that work.
mikelutz But I’ll save that conversation for Seattle, since I don’t see it getting turned on before then.
mglaman 7.2!
mglaman Didn’t Acquia just drop 7.1?
Nikunj Kotecha from what I know 7.2 is not available yet at-least on ACSF :disappointed:
mikelutz @Nikunj Kotecha 7.2 will be the lowest version of php with security support when Drupal 9 comes out. 7.1 stops security support on December 1st of this year.
Nikunj Kotecha I know, in terms of project we are ready but I'm told it is not available yet on cloud
mglaman Platform.sh has had it for over a year. I think pantheon, too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
mglaman I guess customers just need to open more tickets for support
Nikunj Kotecha one I'm working on had Magento and they are stuck on 7.0 :cry:
Nikunj Kotecha anyways, point was - it isn't the case yet, I'm sure it will be available by December
mikelutz ohh, e-commerce on an unsupported php version…
Nick Wilde Pantheon has had 7.2 for ages yeah

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7️⃣ Ckeditor 5 in Drupal 9

Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @johndevman great suggestion :slightly_smiling_face:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) I don’t believe anyone is currently working on this but it would be AMAZING
johndevman What do you think about Damien's suggestion on a ckeditor5.module?
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) I am not sure a separate module is best, but some separation given the different APIs (at least to my understanding)
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @johndevman would you be up to working on that?
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) I guess a separate module would help manage dependencies
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) since core modules don’t have versioning other than core versions
mikelutz It would make it easy to only allow one to be enabled at a time, and to deprecate the current module for removal in D9. Not sure what the FMs would say though.
johndevman not sure i have the time, but i've noticed there are some difficult challenges, i.e. the need to use node to build the bundles (i.e to extend the build with plugins). i could perhaps put my discoveries down on the issues if you like
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) that woudl be amazing, thanks!
johndevman did a small write-up to see if someone's up for the discussion :slightly_smiling_face:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) for reference the issue is

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8️⃣ For reference the meta issue for all the work is at

Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) I created a tree of issues recently and will try to recreate it soon :slightly_smiling_face:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) Just updated with exact date in the title :smile:
berdir how many meta-levels is that? meta-meta-meta? :wink:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) yeah several :smile:
mikelutz We need a meta issue to hold all the meta issues for sure, if we don’t have one already. (and if we do, then that shoud be part of a meta meta around Drupal major version changes)
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him)
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) @mikelutz you mean we need a [META] Plan for all future Drupal versions :wink: and then make this a child? :stuck_out_tongue:
mikelutz That sounds organized to me, yes. :stuck_out_tongue:
Gabor Hojtsy (he/him) indeed :wink:

Thanks all for coming, the meeting is over, see some of you next week in Seattle!

Comments

Gábor Hojtsy created an issue. See original summary.

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Status: Active » Fixed

Posted log and credited participants. Thanks all!

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Special thanks to @mlhess for help with raw and parsed meeting logs.

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Status: Fixed » Closed (fixed)

Automatically closed - issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.

Version: 9.x-dev » 9.0.x-dev

The 9.0.x branch will open for development soon, and the placeholder 9.x branch should no longer be used. Only issues that require a new major version should be filed against 9.0.x (for example, removing deprecated code or updating dependency major versions). New developments and disruptive changes that are allowed in a minor version should be filed against 8.9.x, and significant new features will be moved to 9.1.x at committer discretion. For more information see the Allowed changes during the Drupal 8 and 9 release cycles and the Drupal 9.0.0 release plan.